“Thank you bafael” they all said in unison Most goated patch season youtuber I swear

@Zwyrx_Hgqfyggz

Ай бұрын

It's a tough competition with desk but yeah

The MP~MK TC change is to prevent drive parry input and MP into kick specials from accidentally becoming TC.

Taller hitbox on super 1 is honestly my favorite “buff.” Can’t tell you how many times I ended up losing or losing situation because it just didn’t juggle when it looked like it should.

These changes feel like they want her to be on par conversion wise with the rest of the cast, but still not a finished product to be strong in this game, considering how her medals work

Although not as strong as Modern Juri, Modern Manon gaining access to 214K is big. Modern Manon also got a new heavy auto combo. It's as good as Ed's heavy auto combo minus it needing 2 Drive where Ed's is meterless. Modern Manon's heavy auto combo uses OD spin kick and since it's not using the special button, it bypasses the scaling giving modern access to the new combo with no drawbacks.

The devs look at Manon underperforming and think "Well her medals make her grab do high damage sooooooo" because they think command grabs are broken

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

One of Capcom internal testers must be some grappler god, else why are they so conservative.

@namename9194

Ай бұрын

@@Aggrofool Capcom testers getting absolutely railed by Drive Rush SPD, they were never told you can just jump, the poor things

@ghiidra__

Ай бұрын

@@namename9194 the average player can't deal with drive rush cancel command grab, just queue manon below like diamond 4 and you will hit everybody with it constantly. manon is top tier in plat and below. whether they should take this into account balance wise is subject to debate

@Putnam3145

Ай бұрын

@@Aggrofool i think someone said that, after the final patch, capcom internally thought Alex was the strongest character in SFV, so i believe it

@Draconilian

Ай бұрын

Being THE high damage output character with her stacks is pretty cool as a character theme even if the rest of her is only okay at best.

I’m psionically linked with one of the Manon testers and the buff they’re scared of doing (but will eventually do) is speed+distance increase on heavy spin. I bet they’d double the distance.

When a +1 normal has you jumping for joy you know your character needs a bit more attention

I wish they did something to make her spins more useful in neutral. I also agree that she's a very linear character that could use some spice

I believe the mp ~ mk tc change is so that you have a bit more time to "correct" your input in the event that you try to do something like od Rond-point and hit mk at the down+forward input by accident.

Always glad to see improvements for French svelte female Birdie.

aaaahaaaaa,,., the frensh.....,, (got buffed)

@andrewskey3379

Ай бұрын

wii wii

@rael7830

Ай бұрын

Ahhaaaaaa the french,,,,,,, champagne,, ....

@HollyBunnySilly

Ай бұрын

​@@rael7830YES SOMEONE GOT THE REFERENCE THANK YOU I WAS SO WORRIED THIS WOULD JUST BE WEIRD

Just wish she could actually punish people holding up in command grab situations. Feels like she really still can't stop that

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

She has good tools for jumpers, only crosscut is wonky and unreliable.

@VanMorbir

Ай бұрын

4hp 236kk 236lp Free medal for those holding up in situations like wake up and vortex You're welcome

@beganfish

Ай бұрын

@@VanMorbir That's not a good answer. If you're plus, you're just comitting to an incredibly punishable move hoping they jumped, if you delay it, or wait and try to react to the jump, then you're opening yourself up to get interrupted.

@VanMorbir

Ай бұрын

@beganfish 4hp is plus on block, and after vortex or meaty you're still plus. It's not a big commitment.

@beganfish

Ай бұрын

@@VanMorbir b hp is +1 on block and it leaves you too far to land a light attack or a heavy command grab. And on normal hit it's only +3, so you can't combo after, you have to commit to the punishable move. It's only useful if you're attacking meaty or after a drive rush.

thank you

I 100% get what you mean about straight forward It's like abel without step kick, or ryu without donkey/denjin charge I fully expect a pseudo step kick abel style change with her sometime in the future, or something that's just wacky or unique, maybe something stupid like an alex ddt that beats lows and gives 2 medals but is wildly minus on block just for the meme

@namename9194

Ай бұрын

I'm curious to see how Step Kick would work in SF6, since a dash cancel would basically just be a free Drive Rush (without the extra hit/blockstun, but still)

@AkiraSatou

Ай бұрын

@@namename9194 I think it'll just be more a new special that only 1 button can cancel into the 1 unique special, like chun st.HP into stance, but for manon

God these sessions remind me of the SFV videos they used to do

From the description, I'm curious how the Lily video is gonna go

Finally, Modern Manon can do different strength versions of her 214x

3:01 I'm so used to Bafs straigtforward delivery in scripted videos that hearing something like this cracks me up As always, I love the patch notes videos.

Cr LP buffed to +3 seems targeted to provide some options following a blocked drive reversal. St LP will frequently whiff in that situation, having cr LP punish counter be +7 enables comboing into st MP or cr MP.

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

cLP into MP to punish drive reversal isn't worth due to scaling, unless you are desperate for corner carry. Command Grab gives far better damage and a medal.

1:45 the change isn't just cosmetic, there are some confirms off spin kick that are only possible on PC, so it's an additional indicator to the player that you have a chance to score more damage.

@Bafael

Ай бұрын

True but the player is equally able to confirm off the punish counter notification as they are off the screen shake

really interesting comment about one dimension with her... I have hear how lily is the same as well, if so what does attract you to lily more compared to manon?

@Bafael

Ай бұрын

Lily at least has to juggle her wind charges but manon basically doesn't need to think about her medals beyond the fact that she wants more of them. That being said both characters are extremely straightforward in what they're trying to do. It's attractive to a new player who doesn't want to put in much time learning someone but it can be disappointing for someone looking for new tech to up their game, that being said there's still a lot of nuance to playing both characters even though they have simple objectives

Does the extra frame advantage on crLP enable any new links out of DR cancel that she used to need stLP for, or is that not how that works?

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

Still need sLP after DR. But you get a MP on punish counter, and sLK on CH.

I know it can be inferred just by knowing how Drive Rush works, but I think it helps to be explicit about how Crouch MK's buffs transfer to Drive Rush. On raw Drive Rush Crouch MK, you're +7, which is enough to link into stand MP. If you for some reason get punish counter, you're +11 which can link into Back HP. Also while it was there before, you can get an auto timed meaty from qcb+LK which when done correctly now leaves you +10 on hit and +5 on block, giving room for you to do some nonsense such as linking into Back HP on hit. Of course one has to remember how garbage Manon's DR is, as well as the existence of Wake up Drive Reversal.

@beganfish

Ай бұрын

This only works at point blank, the cr mk pushes you too far, and her DR is so weak that doing it at any range except nearby will cause the mediums to whiff.

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

Instead of 2MK, your aforementioned Raw DR and Meaty DR scenarios are still better off with 2MP and 4HP respectively. There's no reason for opponent to block high if they see you turn green.

@beganfish

Ай бұрын

@@Aggrofool That's not true, there is a reason. Manon doesn't have good oki, and you can back-walk out of her command grab range on a lot of her oki situations. And since her lows are garbage, it's a safe option to avoid mixups.

@Tsyuait

Ай бұрын

@@Aggrofool I'd say that 2MK for the Meaty DR is still something to consider since 2MK can catch back roll wake ups in midscreen oki reliably after 214LK, and is +5 ob as opposed to 4HP's +4 in that scenario. Sure it's only a single frame more, but it can be what you need in a pinch. Of course all this is neutered if anyone was actually paying attention to my whole comment by the existence of Wake up Drive Reversal, and her generally garbage Drive Rush to begin with.

Give her ways to spend medals for effects like hard knockdowns or neutral assists to make her weirder?

Is she really more straightforward than Lily?

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

In the sense that medals don't change your gameplan compared to Jamie drinks or Lily stock.

Kind of a lame patch for her. Luckily they are giving up on the "one patch per year" plan so hopefully she gets some new toys to play with. Be prepared to do a lot more of these videos!

@user-bv3ok2re3s

Ай бұрын

Capcom seems trying to reproduce the treatment on what happened to Ryu/Jamie. Small buff to observe first before applying major change. This seems a much more successful method especially on some of the harder to balance character (Manon being grappler, Lily can be super broken with her wind stock system if over buff)

@glawrk2861

Ай бұрын

Well we still don't know when the S2. Characters will come

@picantepollo6238

Ай бұрын

A dream buff for me is for her df HK on punish counter to pop them straight up to allow for follow ups rather than just sending them basically full screen.

@dino3965

Ай бұрын

I saw a post saying they revealed on a japanese stream theyre axing the one patch per year experiment, but idk. Fingers crossed

@realchezboi

Ай бұрын

@@user-bv3ok2re3sthat’s…. so true actually

Mmm, I think with how insane some buffs other better and worse characters than Manon get, they were very conservative with the buffs to Manon. Maybe they're wary of making a snowball character too good?

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

For ramping characters like Jamie and Manon, Capcom tends to overweigh the full-power state (4 drinks and 5 medals) in their balancing.

@calmguru1274

Ай бұрын

I think it's pretty fair to not want a command grab character to be super strong considering their offense is 50/50 where as other characters that rely on strike / throw have to deal with delay teching so its more of an RPS situation

@Aggrofool

Ай бұрын

​@@calmguru1274 It's not a 50/50 since there are more options: backdash, jump, Drive Reversal, super, OD reversal specials, normals have higher priority at same frame, etc. As for risk/reward, command throws also have poor oki and long recovery that guarantees punish counter combos on whiff more damaging than the throw itself. So there is no compelling reason why grappler archetype should be treated more conservatively than other characters.

I switched to Ed when he came out (sorry I lost faith). But I would definitely play her again if she just got some more fireball invincibility. Oh my god her spin is so bad.

These are nice buffs but she still just looks like Gief with extra steps. I feel like the Medals hold Manon back from being an interesting character with the way they're currently designed. Her gameplan kind of just has to be "get medals, go brrrr" because the damage she can get at 5 Medals is kind of nutty. Maybe in future updates they can rework it so she could choose to burn Medals for mini EX throws or do a new move like a chain throw with different routes and enders. The more Medals she burns, the more chains she gets in the throw. I think that'd be more interesting than "you just do more damage" even if the gimmick overlaps with Lily and Jaime's.

It is a shame that the two characters I conceptually love the most - Manon and Lily - are the most boring and sauceless characters by a long shit. Lily is particularly hard to forgive given she is based so heavily on an existing moveset...

She definitely seems very vanilla in terms of her overall game play. They should give her something to allow for more "dirt" so that she doesn't always have to be honest.

France?

@brafricaon5723

Ай бұрын

Soldier_DominationSpy07.wav

@pastorofmuppets9346

Ай бұрын

Quaso

I know what you mean

If they wanted to really buff her they should extend the range on s.MK slightly and make it hit low.

Vehemently disagree with the idea the Manon being straight forward is bad. Every game should have a balance of simple and complicated characters. The issue is that she is just under tuned.

This is definitely not a very good patch of Manon. She's probably going to be bottom 1 in the game now that Lily and Gief got buffed. Every change she got was incredibly minor and makes very little difference in practice.

I disagree with the observation of manon being the most straightforward character when lily exists

@HellecticMojo

Ай бұрын

or Marisa