Without a doubt, the best heavy rhythm guitar tone of all time, in my opinion.

THANK YOU BOB ROCK AND RANDY STAUB FOR HELPING METALLICA CREATING A MASTERPIECE.

I just love how everyone was literally silent listening to Bob very cool and respectful, shows how much they care the legendary music

@amoskamil6823

Жыл бұрын

For once. They hardly talk about gear an amp stuff. Its turned into a hour of blabber. Hey what yoi up to hows the kids crap

Back when they put heck of alot of effort into making a record sound not just average but great. Terry Date and Bob Rock, real producers.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Yeah everything really came together on that album and the early 90s in general was smash album after smash album

Like it or not, the magic of the Black Album is that the sound aged vero well, you listen to it today and doesn't sound like a 30 yo album.

I love this video dude. I've been into this tone for years and years and always try to get close and never seem to be able to get all of it's nuances in one tone. Sometimes I can get that low end guttural sound but then the high end isn't right. Then it's the other way around and so on. I didn't know this video interview existed and this is the time of stuff I can watch over and over. Thanks man!

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Its an extremely rich and complex tone man! Glad you found it useful brother :-)

@tommilitello198

Жыл бұрын

It sounds different from day to day,you can have your amp dialed in perfect and all of the sudden it’s sounds terrible the next day,that’s why nobody is ever content

This is badass! So cool if Bob to go into such depth in this!

Bob Rock is legend. National treasure for us Canadians!

@fernandoreynaaguilar1438

Жыл бұрын

I thought it was Jim Carrey! Or Dan Aykroyd maybe...

@agrowax

Жыл бұрын

I really underestimated the guy. Obviously a phenomenal engineer.... but I never knew of all his punk history. Subhumans, DOA....legit

@homersimpson8414

Жыл бұрын

Metallica landed in Winnipeg when they first went to America. And Bob Rock was at the airport waving at them.

@SupervisorJimLahey

Жыл бұрын

Winnipeg in America? You homer

@homersimpson8414

Жыл бұрын

@@SupervisorJimLahey Oh. Sorry My fault. It was the Beatles.

Thanks for this vid! Bob Rock is one of the great music engineers/producers of all time. Love the sound of his recordings at that time.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

100%

I actually have a similar approach using amp sims. Mark IIc++ left and right and a Marshall of a Friedman straight down the middle at lower volume for that midrange it needs. MESA Straight 4x12s and Marshall 1960 cabs. I like the 57 and 421, but a Royer 121s as well, it helps taming that nasty top end of the Boogies a bit. Absolutely nuts what we can do with plugins today. They approximate something that would otherwise cost you the asking price of a good mid-range car. I also discovered that using a compression pedal in front helps to get it nice and tight and chuggy, and more so than an overdrive like a TS. First time I see anyone claim them using any kind of compression on the black album guitar tone, not sure they really did that, but it does work for me.

Black album sound was absolutely excellent.. :) My fav guitar drum, bass sound ever ....

Great stuff, thank you! That guitar tone is absolutely iconic and magical - aggressive, complex, brutal, yet somehow tasteful and smooth for what it is. I remember hearing those palm mutes on Enter Sandman when it came out and thinking "what IS *THAT*?!". Let's not forget also Randy Staub's use of the SRS Labs "Wow Thing" box for widening the image and maybe some bass enhancement. I remember reading that they also held off using compression on James's guitar tracks as it messed with his preferred tone, which makes sense to me because those chugs take a lot of amplitude to hit properly.

@thromboid

Жыл бұрын

They referred to that third rhythm track as "The Thickener" on the making-of video - you can hear them come in one at a time after the breakdown in "Holier Than Thou".

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Great observation, I will check out that track. That's pretty definitive proof that it's exactly triple tracked, no more or less.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

It's one of the only times in history that the 'gonk gonk' of the Mark has been properly captured.

@thromboid

Жыл бұрын

Sounds to me like the hardest thing to imitate (apart from the ability of James as a player!) is building an entire room full of (presumably reflective) plywood panels and then spending days tweaking mic positions until you get it Just Right. :)

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Ya the room itself is a huge component. They had some baffles going on as well on certain angles. They need to make a documentary on how they recorded the guitars and drums and go fully in depth.

Bob Rock one of my favorite producers and one of the main reasons why do music. The Black Album shapes my artistry 🙏🏿

They way i think of this tone is so spongy, super crunchy yet not harsh at all.

Was actually the Marshall 1960BV cabs with original voices ‘Marshall Vintage by Celestion’ speaker (the first patented V30) The best Vintage 30 IMO.

@nickstalker3254

2 ай бұрын

What the fuck does Bob rock know. Lol. Goof.

Wow. I always thought they must have been using a light chorus type effect or something to get that sound. That 'chug' or 'crunch' or whatever you want to call it, always sounded super clean to me, like a stereo effect or something. I've never heard it anywhere else - the dirty mids and highs are always present.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Ya it's just many guitar layers with the room mic as well

@mordomaniac

Жыл бұрын

The Bass had Chorus on it

I spent 4 days getting a guitar tone for the last album I did. Tired every guitar we could get our hands on then the couple best guitars we played with different strings then I already had my amplifier picked out but tried 3 different cabs with every different mic and different mic placements then dialing in the amp then picking a simulated guitar tone to blend in, I recorded a guitar direct in and also had it going to the amp so the direct in was another channel so I could use a simulated guitar amp as well. So just the left side was this simulated guitar then the live amp had 2 mics on the can plus a room mic so 3 tracks of the live amp and one simulated track so left side we had 4 guitar tracks and right side also so 8 tracks for the distorted rhythms then I played another live amp stereo down the middle of a cleaner tone it was a huge thick warm tone and all of this together made a massive very full sound. Everyone thought I was crazy and the simulated tone would phase and be thin because it was the same recording but it was a different tone so it just filled in areas that the live amp didn’t and when I said I was gonna add a clean tone they thought I was crazy and the room mic everyone said it’s pointless but I said look if it sounds bad we can delete it but if we don’t record it we have nothing and we didn’t have the room mic loud but it added to the tone. My band mates were mad at first thinking I was wasting expensive studio time but when I recorded the first song everyone was like wow ur right this is amazing.

@Bls-of1ld

8 ай бұрын

Lets hear it

Cool vid man, I agree with your statement. Fortunately, we live now in a time where most modern plug-ins will get you very close to the tones you’re after. Without having to burn $100,000 to buy the expensive vintage equipment.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Thanks man...Well 100k worth of gear is still a 100k worth of gear. Getting sort of close is still not exactly the sound they achieved. If you want to use plugins, you won't come close to actual black album sound unfortunately. It requires very specific tools to get it right.

@BarnyardTheSilverback

Жыл бұрын

​@@mattvdh Glenn Fricker of Spectre Sound Studios might be up for that challenge

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

He doesn't have the same level of gear or talent as Bob Rock to be frank

What source do you have for the Boss CS-1 being used on TBA's heavy rhythm tracks? I've seen a photo of a CS-1 with a Sweet Silence sticker on it sitting on top of his C++ (presumably taken during the MOP studio sessions), but this is the first I've heard the claim that a CS-1 was part of the tone on TBA.

Explain for a non anglophone, please: Boss cs1 as a boost then?How did the Marshall was exactly used/mixed?

Why is it so hard to get Lars drums to sound like that again?

@blacksmithhammerhandle

Ай бұрын

Because Gregg Bissonette tracked the drums(rumor has it)

I'd love to be able to make a record in that way. Great room, great ears, time to tinker with the gear..

Bob rock BALLIN with the geriatric style seat covers

Metallica are tone kings 🔥

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Undefeated champs...and they barely ever talk about gear. Even a few days ago on Howard Stern they were showing some guitars and the tone was insanely awesome.

@109acepilot

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh Fractal Audio

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Ya they don't sound nearly as good as the old triaxis rig

@109acepilot

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh the Triaxis rig was what they used for LOAD/RELOAD ?

Metallica hasn't had a produced on the last 3 albums, they had an engineer, and it shows. Greg just nods along. All the new songs sound the same.

That was enlightening.

Probably my favorite guitar tone of all time

@endoffate5475

Жыл бұрын

Mine to but whats intresting is that this tone wont really work for other stuff.. It tallored made for these songs. (more slow groove, heavy songs).

I dont recall saying that its just a 57 on v30 with a mesa and EMG

Can Metallica just get Bob Rock or Flemming Rasmussen back to get the sound from back then? The current sound is just not "metal"(lica) enough.

The guitars James used then would have been a combo of the EET FUK , and the FUK EM UP MX220's, and his MORE BEER and SO FUCKING WHAT 1984 Alder bodied Gibson Explorers. All of them had EMG 81/60 combos. He was working with ESP on the MX250's during that studio time on getting the thinner and smaller bodied ("less loggy") that were seen later in the black album tours. Bob Rock owns the slate gray FUK EM UP from James now.

I've always thought it had a compressed gain structure unlike any amps, and not post-mic comp. The compressor pedal on top of an 81 explains it, and the room mic blend would be making the sound more 3D/normally compressed, too. Best tone imo, still hasn't been beaten. I think people have been stuck on the 57 oversized for too long and not made the drastic moves needed to get to new, absolutely undeniably killer tones.

very interesting. i found the live vids of writing of the last album had better guitar tone than the actual record. I am suspect to the cabinet. If it was a mesa cab it would have had to be the old one because the recto type cabs didn't come out until 1992.

This is the one of the best Albums of all time 🔥 do u have any ideas of how to get that clean tones of the Black album ?

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Roland Jazz chorus

@Abdullah_Studio1

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh i think they add also electric acoustic in nothing else matter with chorus and very light phaser maybe for some stereo and widening effect 🤔

No one underestimates that tone...

Marc Huzansky amazing Lefty axes collection !

I can say for sure there was a Mark IV involved too for some songs

You forgot to mention the diamonds played that add to the sound.

0:07 Never seen anyone say that until you just did

People also forget that Randy staub also potentially used some of his tricks. (Wow thing)

Thanks.

In the same interview Bob says it was a Mark III, but maybe he was mistaken.

@Tomcat82

Жыл бұрын

My bet is that he was mistaken. He also specifically mentioned that the Mesa in question was from James's standard rig at the time, and all available photographic and video evidence shows his rig to have a Mark IIC+, and that includes the footage from the A Year And A Half documentary. Never once has a Mark III ever appeared in James's rig, at least not to my knowledge. You know who did play a Mark III though? John Sykes, Bob Rock's favorite guitar player that he ever worked with.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

He's recorded a huge amount of bands so can't blame the guy for slipping on a few details when he doesn't have any notes with him

@Tomcat82

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh Of course. Not knocking the guy at all. Totally understandable mistake. By the way, what was your source for the Boss CS-1 being used on TBA?

In the same interview at around 1:57:00 Bob states that James Hetfield’s rig for that album was Mesa Boogie MK III with an ADA Graphic Eq in the effects loop. Along with his Jose modded Marshall. Better do a new video

When does a producer what the the album he and the band are working on has to sound like?

@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE

Жыл бұрын

Often when the is a on but then sometimes, also can is.

All you have to do is watch the "a year and a half in the life of...." The recording of that album was painstaking. The amount of thought, experimentation and deliberation that went into that whole process is plain to see. I bought part one and two on VHS as a kid and watched them obsessively!

Bob has his own sound it's not from the band it's from him

”You know” - Bob Rock

Bob " you know" rock

Not saying Metallica's tone is simple but I can find their tone isn't overly difficult tone I can't seem to tone into like the artist is Randy Rhoads which he used a Marshall amp with MXR pedals just can't get it close but not to my liking Metallica obviously isn't exact but crank the distortion scoop the mids bass around 6 o'clock and rock n Roll but I'm usually not real into sounding and playing just like the artist except I'm kinda on a mission to nailing Randys tone maybe because he's why I started playing or it's just difficult for me to nail. Off topic of the video I know it's about Metallica's tone.

What about peavey, bob

James used a compressor pedal? According to who?

Ill try to replicate this on a Boss GX100

30,000th view!!

Someone should tag Glenn Fricker in this and see if he can replicate the tone in his studio

@VapnFagan

Жыл бұрын

Glenn is tone deaf. The man cant even hear a difference between amps and guitar pickups.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Ya he's got lead leads for guitar playing and tin ears for distinguishing good and bad tones. and it's hard to trust his advice because he is either trolling for views or shilling a product he doesn't actually use

@MaximusAdonicus

6 ай бұрын

@@VapnFagan Lol. You sound like a guy who has spent TONS on expensive gear and now can't live with the fact that most of that gear makes next to no difference to the tone apart from the cab! And yes, there are differences in amps and (some) pickups, but it depends on what u are comparing with... I don't think Glenn has ever said there's no differences in amps, lol?

Pretty sure they were Marshall cabs with v30s.🤷🏼‍♂️

WRONG......At the same podcast Bob said that he used a Mesa Boogie MK III amp with a ADA MP1 preamp ...there's photos of james using this configuration on the studio .....

You always see these social media guys playing Metallica "technically flawless" but I call them all Internet Quaff Boys because they all are lacking one main thing and that's James aggressive right-hand dynamics...

BOB ROCK DOESN'T AGE. LOOK AT HIM. HE STILL LOOKS LIKE FROM 1991 OR 2004?

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

What a beautiful man eh

@vixercrouchrichter

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh I TOTALLY AGREE

Great vid. Especially the moment when Bob Rock describes the tone, didnt know this existed

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Ya he gives a ton of nuggets of wisdom in that clip. The interviewers should have pursued this conversation more, it was the best part of the discussion.

The cost of mics have nothing to do with getting a “rich” tone… Bob Rock could have used another mic and it would have cost $100 instead of $4,000, just like he still used a SM57. Why? Because it got the job done. They’re just tools, cost is irrelevant…

Have you ever used karate in a real life situation?

I know Mesa Boogie Mark II C+. Never heard of Mesa Boogie Mark II C++ (Double Plus)

Few things you got wrong on the gear list (not bashing, just stating facts): - James used B&B/Aphex CX-1 which is both a compressor and a gate. - It wasn't a Mesa cab but an early Marshall 1960A cab loaded with marshall G-12 Vintage speakers - basically a prototype of V30 but with a different voicing (and overall better sounding IMO). - Jose modded Marshalls are basically JCM 800 but at the same time they're so much more... It's basically a hot rodded JMP / Plexi style amp but it is very high voltage compared to a regular JCM 800. High voltage amps always, ALWAYS! sound better when compared to their lower voltage counterparts. - Hetfields Mark IIC++ was also loaded with Mesa STR 415 6L6 power tubes, they sound better than most 6L6s made today with the exception of TAD Red Base Selection 6L6 (these ones are on par or at least very close sounding to 415s). - Presumably James also used Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 power amp. He probably slaved his C++ into this amp via Direct send which sends the preamp signal at the very last stage to a satelite power amp (meaning it's after the fx loop, GEQ and other shenanigans). Although this is all uncofirmed so it's a 50/50.

@Justice_Hammer

Жыл бұрын

Black album was recorded using V30 Marshall cabs

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

You're right, but I was trying to just point out some interesting stuff Bob Rock mentioned and how it's actually alot higher production than many people often state online etc etc. It's a *very expensive recording and technical to obtain...it's not just Mesa with a 57 that's for sure.

@OTTOAUDIO

Жыл бұрын

@@Justice_Hammer yep G12 vintage, slightly different than v30's, a 1960BV cab specifically.

@OTTOAUDIO

Жыл бұрын

yep G12 vintage, slightly different than v30's, a 1960BV cab even more specifically. Marshall Vintage 4x12 was actually introduced in 1990, but the Marshall 70W Vintage Speakers (Marshalls version of V30) had been around since 1986.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

But your points are well recieved and thanks for the corrections! Gotta love Metallica fans for knowing all the details. Thanks guys!

It's definitely not a Thrash album, I would say it's a groove metal album.. minus the two ballads. I liked The Unforgiven but thought Nothing else Matters doesn't really fit the rest of the record (I didn't like it and still don't). Good observations about the selling out thing.

There's also at least three layers of guitar

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Some people say it's triple tracks per left and right side for rhythms but I think it was likely one hard panned right, one left and one minor/center. Bob was getting into it but dave sidetracked him and they didn't ask pertinent questions

You know

Metallica's album guitar tone hasn't been good since Garage Inc. Greg Fidelman gives them this very spiky tone on the last 3 albums and it doesn't work IMO. Those harsh high are unappealing next to the smooth Black Album tone. They should go back to Bob Rock and Randy Staub.

@honigdachs.

Жыл бұрын

I tend to somewhat disagree man. The current tone I think is less Fidelman, but more James really being about punch and definition these days rather than that smooth, liquidy envelope. It did take me some time to get used to it, but the way how especially the chords sound - extremely clear, big and with fantastic string separation - blows me away. That really comes through on the new record. You don't usually hear that in metal. On the other side of the spectrum, I do absolutely love the tone on Load as well. It's darker, and that's largely the Eb tuning, but it has all kinds of tasty, chunky texture in the mids, so good. I also really like the raw tone on the Mercyful Fate medley.

@bigfarting

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, the tone choice is 100 percent James. It sounds pretty much identical live. I don't like it either

5:35 "It was all about doing the work. Spending the time getting everything right"! Yep! That is something they haven't done in 25yrs! They are unwilling to put any real effort in and it shows big time. His guitar tone sucks ass! smh!

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't know why they couldn't repeat the same production formula to their newer albums. Load actually has an even better guitar tone but the songs are super boring and stale

@Churro_Flaminguez

Жыл бұрын

You must have missed the part where Bob The Producer explained that James the Musician told him what kind of sound he wanted, and it was the producer's job to spend a week moving amps around in a studio while trying out mics, amps & cabs, etc. to finesse that sound. In other words, it's the producer's job. Not the artist unless they are also well-versed in production.

@muriloninja

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh They put a lot of effort into the guitar tone, production, and mix. I find Load/Reload to be underrated in several regards but the #1 is what I just mentioned, they sound great! Now take that and slap it on Death Magnetic and holy shit!

Seinheiser? Really? As far as i know, its Sennheiser, lol

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

typo

How about you put the source video into the description if you basically just re-upload someone else's stuff? The least thing a decent person could do.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

I said in the video here's bob rock on tone talk. But Here ya go ya whiner. kzread.info/dash/bejne/a2GEl9msk9e-gLQ.html&ab_channel=Tone-Talk

The black album was a vehicle which was solely produced to gain mainstream attention, and create wealth. Any hit song based on childhood nursery rhymes and monsters under your bed, is conceptually created to attract the simplest minds in society, and relieve them of their minimum wage wealth. Metallica became a stagnant entity almost as soon as bassist Cliff Burton was laid to rest. Burton was able to push the creative aspect of Metallica beyond the simple riff stringing they were capable of. Too a certain extent, the loss of Dave Mustain also hurt the band in a creative sense.

@michaelmitchell8239

Жыл бұрын

How many Metal Bands wrote $hit Lyrics??? Enter Sandman was the darker version of Nursery Rhymes, worked very well. Mainstream Metallica got other Metal Bands Noticed, and they all followed to go "Mainstream". To me, AJFA is better than the first 3 Albums, though I do rank RTL ahead of MOP. Vocally, James sounds the Best on the Load Albums, still has his Vocal Fry, but with much better "Clean" singing. St Anger is $hit! Last 3, some good stuff, some very average, to below average.

@AJDOLDCHANNELARCHIVE

Жыл бұрын

It's still their best album, along with Master of Puppets, in my opinion. Perfect balance of aggression, high production value, and mature, concise song structures. "Through the Never" and "Of Wolf and Man" are absolutely killer tracks.

Metallica themselves can't even accurately replicate their tones from The Black Album lmao. As other pointed out in the comments there are various mistakes in this video description even coming from Bob himself. I've seen guitar techs who worked on albums not recall details correctly. Point is way too many factors at play. Lets just take the guitar cab for example. Not having a SPECIFIC year/model of a speaker along with the same cabinets can screw up the tone alone. Most people don't realize a Marshall cabinet 4x12 made in the past 30 year sounds nothing like a late 60's/early 70s Marshall cabinet. When these guys make albums they cycle through vintage gear all the time looking for the best sound. Even something as simplistic as Kurt Cobain's tones on Nevermind was actually done with a lot of expensive amps/cabinets. There was a good video on here with a guy trying to recreate the Nevermind tone and turns out he had to buy an extremely expensive/rare vintage Celestions from the early 70s to do it. Short story is the factory that made those speakers burnt down in the 70s and the specific formula was lost....look up "pulsonic speaker cones". They actually sound amazing and I've heard lots of demos showing the differences.

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

I agree

Speakers, mic type and mic placement. Thats all there is to tone once gain is introduced. None of those other items do much at all to change your tone.

"triple-tracked the rhythm tones" means 3 tracks right, 3 tracks left

@mattvdh

Жыл бұрын

Man, that's insane! Are you sure it's not just three? That seems like it would get too muddy after quad.

@saras4494

Жыл бұрын

No, im pretty sure it means left middle right. same how they did on the previous albums. Multiple cabs can be bounced down to a single track and then panned.

@LowRiderFuckYou

Жыл бұрын

@Šaras nah i don't think they put guitar tracks in the middle as it won't leave space for drums and vocals

@jsullivan2112

Жыл бұрын

@@saras4494 No, LowRiderLoveYou is correct. Double or triple tracking is not panned out, otherwise you lose the effect it creates. If it's actually triple tracked, that means three tracks per relative position in the stereo field, so three left, three right. So you pick where you want a guitar to go, say hard left, and then track it three times, putting them all on that same spot, maybe a little spread from each other but very very slight, within one or two degrees. If you pan them the way you're talking about, it loses the thickness that the effect creates. This technique is why chorus effects were originally invented, to try and reproduce it.

@jsullivan2112

Жыл бұрын

@@mattvdh Mud doesn't really have anything to do with that, that's EQ. It will definitely bump up the master fader's gain though.