Sara easily the smartest person on this show .. she have such a nuanced attitude towards every discussion…

@alisky8551

Жыл бұрын

Agreed

@KCal1213

Жыл бұрын

Bull it is about White people feeling like something being taking away. So this isn’t as nuanced as you say it is about White Supremacy plan and simple. By the way Sunny is the most educated and smartest. Sara is saying what you and the person who replied wanted to hear. It fits in your White supremacist world review.

@cinnamonpie8077

3 ай бұрын

Yes,Sara is smart,so is Anna

Sunny is right, marriage is no different. Imagine telling a black person "oh, don't worry, you don't want to eat at a restaurant run by racists anyways, so it's totally fine for them to refuse to serve blacks, just go find a better restaurant". The gaslighting is unbelievable. These women would be livid if it were a suit designer refusing to make a suit for them because "women should be in the kitchen".

@millennialaviation

Жыл бұрын

There’s a clear difference between race and romantic/sexual preference. Let’s not go there…

@phrei2488

Жыл бұрын

very well put, Ken

@alexmeh

Жыл бұрын

@@millennialaviation sexual “preference”?

@CloroxBleachCompany

Жыл бұрын

Sunny even said “protected classes” and that went over their heads. A protected class is a group of individuals who the government legally acknowledges require extra protection because of historical discrimination against them. The Civil Rights Act remains the strongest guarantor of rights to protected classes. If you’re a racial minority, a woman, a child, lgbtq, a veteran, disabled etc. YOU ARE IN A PROTECTED CLASS. In the “swastika cake” scenario Joy gave a court would most likely side with someone refusing to make a Nazi cake because it still targets a PROTECTED CLASS.

@millennialaviation

Жыл бұрын

@@alexmeh Yes preference. Gay men prefer men because that’s who they are attracted to. Lesbians prefer women because that’s who they’re attracted to romantically.

This was a great conversation. A lot of great points made.

People need to stop hiding behind religion as an excuse to why they want to deny service to people for who they are. The slippery slope is more likely to happen with that web designer's view. How about they stop looking at things like skin color, orientation, gender, etc. and just do their job?

@sandraneri3665

Жыл бұрын

I agree with you . I wish people would stop using religion for every little thing they don’t like. Why doesn’t she just admit that she don’t like gay people and she don’t want to serve them.

@plieu625

Жыл бұрын

Especially when they hide behind the Bible and think they can absolve themselves of the things they do

@minigiant8998

Жыл бұрын

she's not even an artist. she's equating web design with being a michaelangelo.... like what?! girl just do ur job and stop wasting tax payer money with this garbage.

@Jeff-cr6ur

Жыл бұрын

Because religion and faith are a big deal to people.. If you don’t have a strong religion, that’s fine, but you don’t have the right to tell others how they should feel and that they have to change/modify their values or beliefs. If they don’t agree with being gay for example, ..oh well, that’s their right!

@plieu625

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeff-cr6ur Would you agree or disagree that laws/legislation/rulings should also not be enacted based on religion? Because it seems like there’s a lot of anti-lgbtq laws being implemented based on religious beliefs.

As a gay man, no one has to serve your gay wedding. Find a place that will, end of story.

@gl3936

Жыл бұрын

Finally! A gay man with intelligence and common sense💯❤️

@ThatKillerQuote

Жыл бұрын

@@gl3936 This is such a dumb issue. The ladies of the View make it about so many things that are unrelated. It's not about discrimination, it's about religious freedom.

Thank you, Alyssa and Joy

We’re living in scary times. What Justice Alito said should frighten us all. We need to expand the Supreme Court NOW!

Is it just me or is it ridiculous that they are comparing gay marriage art to a “black person being hung” art or Nazi art as though they are equal categories in this discussion. A gay married couple hurts noone, so to refuse to create art for a gay married couple is quite different from someone refusing to create hate art that depicts or symbolizes death of other humans. I get what they are trying to say, but these are two very different things that really don’t belong in the same discussion.

I find this very conflicting. As a Christian, it's important that religious freedom is upheld and respected. But as an ally of minorities like the LGBTQ+ community, I stand against discrimination & bigotry

@Prince_the_One

Жыл бұрын

It's not really that conflicting. The Bible was written hundreds of years of Christ died and by people who were not even the originators of the religion. Then it was editted several times throughout history. As a Christian I would just follow Christ's teachings to love thy neighbor, never judge, and let ye without sin cast the first stone 🪨

@elizabethxoxo5

Жыл бұрын

@@Prince_the_Onethat’s you

@rednugget1986

Жыл бұрын

Noted: Whoopies example of "I don't need to treat you medically because I don't like your politics." Yet they leave out Kristie Alleys death (no mention of her) because these bias women and show DOESN'T agree with Kristie's political views (being that she was a Conservative). Real classy Whoopi ..

@bigsexxy1

Жыл бұрын

No talking about Mr avenatti going to prison for over 2 decades the view panels hero or the Twitter files huh?

@CloroxBleachCompany

Жыл бұрын

The thing is people pick and choose which aspects of Christianity they follow. None of these extremist Christian groups are calling for the repeal of the 2nd amendment, the end of the death penalty, or the end of the legal slavery still permitted by the 13th amendment. That lets me know this isn’t about Christian beliefs but a political agenda. If a Muslim person owned a mall and they refused vendors from selling bacon or hot dogs, people would also be outraged. This is why we separate church and state.

Thank you Sara for talking about all the other things done in the name of religion in other countries that we chose not to mention here.

@manoushb5699

Жыл бұрын

Like Palestinians being quicked out of their house for one particular chosen people. Funny she forgot that one.

@Dickens58

Жыл бұрын

@@manoushb5699 Also very true Manoush.

@WAEVOICE

Жыл бұрын

@@manoushb5699 Funny how you overlooked the bit about a certain Authority doing nothing about that plight.

So she is going to ask which religion her clients believe in order to provide a service?

@bonanimathambo8721

Жыл бұрын

That isn’t what she said.

@gl3936

Жыл бұрын

I think the topic went wayyyy above your head

@alexstanton83

Жыл бұрын

@@gl3936 No, it did not. She talked about religious freedom and people like her are against all other religions. She would be a hypocrite if she serves everyone with a different religion.

@CloroxBleachCompany

Жыл бұрын

@@alexstanton83 We need to realize many people don’t walk the walk with their religions and only use religion as a social club nowadays. She claims this is about religious freedom but guarantee she would faint after realizing that also means a Muslim owned business could theoretically force her to wear a hijab in their store or leave. This is why the U.S. separates church and state.

@gl3936

Жыл бұрын

@@alexstanton83 having a different religion has nothing to do with being gay. She isn’t against different religions, her beliefs are against gay marriage. Again, it went wayyy over your head and you don’t know how to differentiate and understand

Omg!!!Go to another baker and or another designer!!!!

great discussion the ladies presented. one we can all be having. thank you to the ladies of the view today. i look forward to ana’s views.

when you have a private business you have every right to say yes or no to something that you find offensive period, there are other choices out there use them

@bunnylover1340

Жыл бұрын

Louise When someone choose to serve the general public they have to serve them regardless. However if they ask you to do something offensive then you have a right to refuse but in the general sense of servitude you cannot discriminate.

It is her choice.... why force her....

Whoopi’s argument is completely outrageous. Doctors take an oath to save lives no matter who you are or what you believe. Business owners have the right to deny service. Be proud of who you are and choose only businesses that align with your values. Why support businesses who don’t?

@MissJade805

Жыл бұрын

Yeah doctors take an oath to save life’s and treat their patients no matter who they are, but there’s been some who actually didn’t go through with it, some doctors have refused to attend certain people because they didn’t have the same beliefs as them.

@KCal1213

Жыл бұрын

You must be White. Sorry in the real world there is racist who take oaths all the time and don’t uphold their oaths. You must not live in America.

@riverebec1

10 ай бұрын

@@MissJade805 Like who and were they brought up on charges?

Sunny is so condescending, she needs to get over herself

Let’s really flip script though, if my religious beliefs say that Christian weddings are blasphemous, am I allowed to to not make any websites for Christian held weddings?

@matthewallred1134

11 ай бұрын

Exactly. It's not discrimination if I state "Hate the beliefs, not the believers ". 😂

This is a good topic! Nice job, ladies!

These conversations have been had so many times now; they’re so boring. Why can’t we evolve as humans?!!

Private businesses are private and can deny service to anyone .

Whoopi made it simple when she said, "you don't have to subscribe to your neighbor's beliefs"....it's just that simple. The problem comes when those who don't want others to do what they want. That's a double-standard because in no way is a homosexual obligated to abide by Christianity, Muslim, Hindu, or any other religion....but they seem to forget that no religion is obligated to abide by their religion which is homosexuality. It's not hard to find those who agree with what you do or don't do. People just want to fight about it. They say that they want "equality", but that is bs because equality doesn't mean that you take away the rights or beliefs of others in order for your beliefs to be made acceptable.

@kbanghart

Жыл бұрын

This is the problem.. equal access. Say you live in an area where there's only one or two bakers who you can reach easily, so then are you forced to have to go a long ways out of your way to find one who will serve you?

@PabloLopez-rp7lq

Жыл бұрын

Homosexuality is not a religion

@ziva9266

Жыл бұрын

Since when is homosexuality a religion 😂

@emilevanrensburg8094

Жыл бұрын

@@shawnmandigo7151 same as here in South Africa. It is so odd that America is always behind when it comes to equality.

@ziva9266

Жыл бұрын

@@shawnmandigo7151 preach!

Sunny is on slow motion

@hallking7441

Жыл бұрын

She's on something alright and it's very obvious.

@Mr-C-Codes

Жыл бұрын

@@hallking7441 I been saying it for months. Wendy williams route.

@Chillhard

Жыл бұрын

At least the trolls 🧌 are alert 🚨. Happy trolling 👹

@RustyShackleford360

Жыл бұрын

@@Chillhard Are they wrong? 🤷‍♂️

When discrimination is allowed in any form, we all lose.

Sarah forever gets it right ✅

I agree with Alyssa it's a slippery slope and very complicated

If they don't want the business there are plenty of people who do.

"No shoe, no service" postage on the door. She can post on her door or website. Seems like people are trying change each others.

@RaymondHng

Жыл бұрын

The Colorado anti-discrimination law explicitly prohibits notification of refusal of service: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes § 24-34-601. Discrimination in places of public accommodation _(2) (a) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, _*_to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable_*_ because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry._

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

She not refusing to serve someone who is gay , she doesn’t want to make anything that promotes homosexuality.

5:41 YOU SAY YOU'RE ALL OUT OF THAT PRODUCT AND REFER OUT🤣

5:10 “promoting something horrible”. THAT’S THE POINT. Gay people and their marriage is NOT HORRIBLE. That’s the difference in these so called “parallel“ examples. The constitution attaches freedom with THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

Well said ladies👏👏👏👏

Don’t understand bogus issue if she’s never been requested to make cake

@absakane1610

Жыл бұрын

She’s an attention seeker that’s all!

She specifically said she doe not want to be put in a position where she has to communicate a "message" that is against her believes. More like how another designer at the other end of the spectrum (hypothetically) would not want to be forced to participate in a message that is against the LGBTQ+ community.

3:41 👎🏻NO YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE THE CAKE, YOU DENY THE CAKE FOR OTHER REASONS LIKE SCHEDULING OR PRODUCT AVAILABILITY BUT YOU DON'T TELL THEM NO BECAUSE THEY'RE GAY 🤣

Nobody is forcing her to do anything. Lmao 🤣 🤣

@konstantinkrastev4478

Жыл бұрын

her website is a template webiste, its not even her by hand making stuff

@antmagor

Жыл бұрын

It is the definition of a frivolous lawsuit in my book. Shouldn’t even be in Scotus right now because it’s a waste of our courts time to entertain lawsuits in which there isn’t even an offended party. The suit is filed purely on hypotheticals.

@minigiant8998

Жыл бұрын

@@konstantinkrastev4478 ikr, she calls herself an artist like she's Rembrandt! gurl u use template webpages, girl bye

@cnuque76

Жыл бұрын

@antmagor She's being backed by the same organizarion/people that put forth the cake case. They didn't like the ruling then so they want a different tack and get their win with a more conservative court

@jazzwhitney3333

Жыл бұрын

@cnuque76 the court was conservative when they won that case

Wait, so none of the people she doesn’t want to work with has even asked for her to work for them?

@missondo4887

Жыл бұрын

Exactly 😂😂😂😂😂 she’s wasting the court time

@cnuque76

Жыл бұрын

She's being backed by the same people who backed the cake designer. They didn't get the answer that they wanted then and now they're back because they think they'll win this time with a more conservative court (and sounds like they will).

@minigiant8998

Жыл бұрын

this is pro-active or prophylactic bigotry.

@arcane7298

Жыл бұрын

She is already a web designer who serves all clientele, but now she wants to branch out into wedding website design, and she was going to put a disclaimer about not designing for same-sex weddings but realized that it would be against the anti-descrimination laws if she did that, so she had to go to court to get an exemption for that circumstance. She will probably win but I think if her religious beliefs require her to discriminate in her commercial business, she should not be involved in that line of business, or she should be required to hire another designer who will serve that clientele so that everyone has equal access to the services.

@mkfd4571

Жыл бұрын

The more important question is why the court chose to take the case

STACK THE COURT.

@truthbtold8697

Жыл бұрын

Yeeeahhh whichever party wins should stack it until we have 1200 justices

@konstantinkrastev4478

Жыл бұрын

biden would never he is so weak

@jesusislord9758

Жыл бұрын

Ridiculous

Thank god she is NOT a ONLY one designer in America. I'm a graphic designers and happy to help everyone. I got degrees from Pratt Institute Master of Fine Arts and BFA from Parsons School of Design.

@konstantinkrastev4478

Жыл бұрын

its not about that, rightwingers are chipping away at rights. Its a step towards doctors, food services and other essential business refusing services to people

@writersblock26

Жыл бұрын

My sister went to Pratt, too!

@ilwas1066

Жыл бұрын

@@writersblock26, 👍

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@konstantinkrastev4478 you are so wrong it’s the other way around. You see how sports players are forced to where pride stuff or they have sit out of a game. Or they are called bigots. Or endure other kinds of hate spewed at them. No one is attacking there belief, they just don’t agree with . Christians are not telling anyone you have to believe in Jesus . This gay movement is saying is literally saying you have to support us and believe and support us or your discriminating. No one is denying service to anyone who is gay. It is really disturbing to me how you people push that narrative , to chip at everybody else’s rights , only to give the LGBT special rights. Please tell me what rights have been taken from anyone?

@konstantinkrastev4478

Жыл бұрын

@@ThatGuy-nr5sp You are a bigot if you don't wear pride stuff. What are you saying by not wearing it, oh I hate lgbt people? well cool people shouldn't associate with you. I don't have to respect your made up religion when you don't respect people's rights to marry or food or services

Candace Cameron Bure and Raven Symone had this exact discussion about 7 years ago

@ambergerhelper7852

Жыл бұрын

It’s ridiculous it’s not settled. We shouldn’t be doing this again.

@donnadayle3762

Жыл бұрын

@Nicole true it does seem like it getting worse. religion has too much influence into our everyday lives. many religions have gone totally right wing and dangerous to some of their parishioners. religion should have it's place at church & home not in the public...

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@donnadayle3762 the same thing can be said about this homosexual agenda. It’s funny to me , cause I continually here that it’s no one’s business who they love or who they are in bed with and I agree. They also can keep that I n their homes and bedrooms and stop bugging everybody about their personal business. I believe that’s what Christian’s and non Christian’s are fighting for. I always heard it said that Christians shove their beliefs down people’s throats but these people are worse.

Absolute nonsense the Supreme Court even took this case. It’s all about protected classes. Full stop.

It comes down to if sexual orientation is a protected class. Also, sound the state is saying it is but SCOTUS cant have it both ways saying certain things is up to the state and then certain thing is up to THEM.

Refusing a gay cake or refusing hate speech cake isn’t the same thing. One is literally about love and the people who are gay don’t affect your life in any way. the other is literal hate and people who hate can be dangerous, to you and to others. I don’t understand how/why we’re using this argument.

@thebonniemonroeshow3708

Жыл бұрын

It’s actually a valid argument because it’s a liberty issue. Should someone be forced to do with their hands what they do not want to do. Political Party Affiliation is a protected class in the state of California. So let’s say that you are affiliated with the Nazi party, I WOULD be required to make you a website. The law doesn’t understand love & hate. It understands classes & it applies the same logic to all cases. Which is why you have to be really careful what precedence is set. It sucks… but I think it’s what makes people nervous. Let’s say it was a Conversion Therapy website & they were asking a gay developer to make it. While the people asking for the website may see it as love… how abusive is that going to be to the developer that might be heartbroken making this site which he sees as abuse of children? I think it’s tricky. Because people have different moral codes.

@catherineomondi7850

Жыл бұрын

The law is blind, though. If freedom of speech cuts across both, which is the argument that was used here.

Why would anyone in their right minds want to go to anyone who is filled with hate for who they are to serve them?

@RustyShackleford360

Жыл бұрын

She didn't seem to be filled with hate 🤷‍♂️

@jesusislord9758

Жыл бұрын

Are you filled with hate to those you disagree?

Great marketing scheme for this lady to get free exposure for her business. I'm gay and I don't think anyone should tell you what to say if you don't want to. I would just find a business that would want to bake my cake etc.

Well the flip the scenario on its head: what if I'm not a Christian and my belief is that I don't serve Christians due to their discriminatory behavior. Is that okay? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, right?

@jmack129

Жыл бұрын

Technically, yes! But can you IMAGINE a bakery choosing not to serve Christians?? Puritanical America would have a conniption.

@missmytime

Жыл бұрын

To be fair, this was never about serving gay folks, it was about the kind of service that she was asked to provide. The better analogy would be that a KKK graphic designer should be able to decline services showing how Black is Beautiful and similar, while Still serving them on other ways. and that ought not to be a problem (p.s. I’m black). Like Sara said, I have no idea why a black person would go to a KKK baker (unless they’re just trying to make a point), but if they did make that odd choice, I think this is a fair case of free soeech. I actually agree that nobody should be forced to participate in a celebration they don’t agree with. In a free country, you should be able to tolerate others (for lack of a better word) while disagreeing with their message.

“Well what if they want me to make a r@cist cake?” That’s not even the same thing, that’s hate speech, vs not serving someone purely based on their sexual orientation…

@cano21

Жыл бұрын

How about a MAGA cake?

@maxpower8429

Жыл бұрын

How about a pro gun cake

@WAEVOICE

Жыл бұрын

The sexual orientation in question is hateful in the eyes of a true Christian, so it *is* the same thing.

@maxpower8429

Жыл бұрын

@@WAEVOICE how about a gay sex cake? Just cuz it involves an action by a gay person doesn’t mean it’s hateful. You could object to the other element involved

Thank you Sara

Sunny and Sara are on point with their comments

Why are Sunny’s hands purple

@elizabethxoxo5

Жыл бұрын

That booster

@RustyShackleford360

Жыл бұрын

@Elizabeth OH please tell me that's true 😅

@yolowell9564

Жыл бұрын

LOL they're lavender. And yes why? 😂😂😂

No talking about avenatti going to prison for over 20 years? The view panels hero

@mykoniichistorychannel

Жыл бұрын

He’s already in prison and they already dragged him years ago.

@truthbtold8697

Жыл бұрын

@@mykoniichistorychannel they drug him?? Only for a second if they did but that was after they hailed him as being the greatest lawyer of all time

hubby & i are electrical contractors. if we denied doing work because of a persons color, sexual orientation or any of those silly reasons we wouldn't be in business! religious people need to stop judging others and using it against others and preachers should stop the race baiting! your religion is to guide you to do the right thing...not to brainwash you into believing everyone is bad because you don't agree with you or your religion. i would never ask this woman to do work for me! creative artists are not usually so narrow minded and have tunnel vision...she may not be as talented as she keeps bragging that she is.

My ? Is what happens if it's a small business that needs the work will they be protected or will they be cancelled or whatever

Instead of blaming it on " her religious beliefs " she could just say that she is to busy helping a same sex couple and could recommend another designer instead .. You can turn away clients BUT don´t use your beliefs as a excuse .. To me , whatever your religion is inside your home .. that is your personal life , however , when you step outside your door you need to realize not everyone is sharing your beliefs ..

@christopheroswald3419

Жыл бұрын

So you would rather have her lie than tell the truth? That goes against many people's religious beliefs as well ya know.

@StarFighters76

Жыл бұрын

@@christopheroswald3419 Actually she's lying when she said it's against her "religious beliefs", so what difference does it make?

@deannamarie3746

Жыл бұрын

True, she could just as easily had another employee design it if she felt that uncomfortable doing it herself, aswell.

@truthbtold8697

Жыл бұрын

So be a homosexual in public but be religious in private???

@christopheroswald3419

Жыл бұрын

@@StarFighters76 - How do you know she is lying?

But did she get any work offers from the gay communities 🤔 clearly she just wants fee publicity. How do you start a fight with yourself just in case it does happen? I am sure they would be able to shop somewhere else knowing they would not get the best service from you anyway...Is she trying to pull a Hobyloby, which we clearly know why the ruling went their way and was not ruled in good faith...

@yolowell9564

Жыл бұрын

None. This is all hypothetical and this woman is a pathetic low life.

@cnuque76

Жыл бұрын

She's backed by the same people who brought the cake lawsuit. They didn't get their answer then so they're trying again with a more conservative court. They want license to discriminate

@donnadayle3762

Жыл бұрын

julie...well said! i will NEVER walk into a hobby lobby and haven't since they pulled their stunt! you are right!...she just wants attention and the church to praise her bigotry.

Where is the gay person’s voice on this panel? Oh wait… there isn’t a gay person on this panel.

She could easily say that her religious beliefs are opposed to interracial marriage. Then what?

I have no respect to the court!

Its just weird that no one even asked her

*Didn't Christ say love your neighbor?! Against your religion is another way of saying "my way only".*

"Even though no one has asked her to" hahahahaha

Religion should have NO bearing when it comes to legislation or courts deciding the fate of cases.

@WAEVOICE

Жыл бұрын

Too bad many of you lot think Christianity is just a religion, though.

Totally off topic, but I hope Sunny is okay. Something seems off and what’s going on with her hands?

@RustyShackleford360

Жыл бұрын

That's the vaccine doing what it was designed to do 😄

@ziva9266

Жыл бұрын

@@RustyShackleford360 lol. Some how the vaccine has not had that effect on me. Weird 🤯

@RustyShackleford360

Жыл бұрын

@@ziva9266 I was halfway joking about that.......but halfway not

If you don't wanna do it, don't. Do you really have to tell your "potential" client you don't wanna take an order? What happened to say "sorry, we're fully booked"? The law has to protect the masses.. and so the law has to allow freedom, and the ability for individual to make a personal choice.

I’m a married gay man. Of course I wouldn’t want to support a business who’s practice is to not provide a service to my husband and I because their “religious belief” is our marriage is wrong. Since we’re dealing with hypothetical here…let’s say it’s the only business in town who can provide the kind of design my husband and I want. Sure feels like discrimination to me if my husband and I have to go to another town to get the design we want while my straight married neighbors don’t have to travel out of town to get the same type of service. Gay couples shouldn’t have to shop around because certain businesses will refuse them services based on their religious beliefs. Religious Freedom should mean you can practice and live according to your religious beliefs. It shouldn’t be a license for businesses to say they will provide services to married straight couples but not married gay couples.

So what happens if a couple goes to a Muslim catering service and asks for a pork item to be made and the Muslim catering service refuses on the grounds of religion. For some reason, we have no problem telling Christians how they ought to believe but if it was any other religion, that religion would be a "protected class" and would be given a pass to discriminate. Joy and Alyssa are correct that this is a slippery slope!

@mdr216

Жыл бұрын

WHy would a muslim owned catering service offer pork in the first place? If they did they would probably hire non muslim caterers to handle the pork meat.

@signalfire15

Жыл бұрын

@@mdr216 It's a hypothetical situation man!!

@justina8752

Жыл бұрын

Islam doesn’t agree with same-sex relationships, either. What if the Muslim-owned bakery didn’t want to bake a cake for a gay couple’s wedding?

@signalfire15

Жыл бұрын

@@justina8752 Yep!

It should be fine for her to handle her business her way! Find someone else or make it yourself🎄🎁❤

Sara is the most intelligent at this table

LIVE & LET LIVE🙏💙🙏💙🙏💙🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

If a business is going to refuse to serve someone, rather it be because of a person’s marriage, race, sex, etc., then their business should be advertised in that manner, so people DO NOT have to deal with the bigots. Honestly, every time someone does this, I see it as a great opportunity for a business that accepts everyone to grow their business. Advertised that you are here for everyone and get all the work for your business. Who needs to deal with someone like this anyway? We don't even know if she does a good job at it.

@antmagor

Жыл бұрын

I don’t even think they should be allowed to do that because simply put it feels to reminiscent of a time where shopkeepers were allowed to put up signs reading no Irish need apply.

@erauprcwa

Жыл бұрын

So we go back to the "no coloreds allowed" era?

@jvarious8665

Жыл бұрын

I get what you are saying but at base line, a gay couple shouldn’t have to shop around for services that are available to straight couples simply because certain business owners don’t believe in gay marriage, advertised or not. I think the same about abortion. Women should have the same rights everywhere in the US. They shouldn’t have to travel to a different state because one state bans abortion on religious grounds. The US is taking the idea of religious freedom way too far!

@peterporkeresq.2817

Жыл бұрын

@@jvarious8665 What happens when a Christian doesn't want to render his/her service toward a satanist ritual?

@RaymondHng

Жыл бұрын

@@antmagor The Colorado anti-discrimination law explicitly prohibits notification of refusal of service: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes § 24-34-601. Discrimination in places of public accommodation _(2) (a) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, _*_to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable_*_ because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry._

Here’s the difference between what you guys are trying to get at and what she’s asking for: this woman wants to be able to say ‘I will not serve these following groups’ and that is discriminatory and should not be allowed. However, as a business owner, you can turn down whatever business you don’t want to take on. But these bigots want permission to not only turn you down but also condemn you. Sara, Joy & Alyssa were making good points. I wish this show encouraged the hosts to say ‘I didn’t think of it that way’ or ‘that’s a great question - I’m not sure what the answer is’ instead of always pretending they know everything. This conversation felt like 5 people with 5 opinions refusing to budge or meet in the middle.

@CloroxBleachCompany

Жыл бұрын

There is no meeting in the middle with what Sunny said tho, it is settled law that a protected class cannot be legally discriminated against in the United States. Even in the example Joy gave, Sunny was right in assessing that a business owner can refuse to make a swastika cake because the cake could be used to target many protected classes including the disabled, racial minorities, women, U.S. veterans etc. Making a cake for an lgbtq wedding doesn’t target any of these protected class, and as of Obergefell and the pending marriage equality bill passed by Congress, they too are a protected class.

ACB said in a speech, “My goal today is to convince you that this court is not comprised of a bunch of partisan hacks,” The solution to that is to stop being a bunch of partisan hacks.

Maybe The View should hire a gay person so they can actually tell you what this is about.

Sorry if you don't believe in it and it's against your beliefs then they shouldn't try to make that person do something offensive to there God. Just buy your cake elsewhere!!!

I feel like it does not have to be super complicated. If what you are asked to perform and make is in one way or another expressing or conveying a hateful view or violence, you should definitely be allowed to say NO. However, offering any kind of service for gay marriage has nothing to do with inciting violence.

@kenburke4111

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Equating swastikas with two men in love just shows you how incapable of nuance people are. Not everything needs to be treated exactly equivalent. It's f*ing obvious that you shouldn't have to bake a Hitler cake but you should have to serve gay customers because GAYS AREN'T NAZIS, grow up people!

@rednugget1986

Жыл бұрын

Noted: Whoopies example of "I don't need to treat you medically because I don't like your politics." Yet they leave out Kristie Alleys death (no mention of her) because these bias women and show DOESN'T agree with Kristie's political views (being that she was a Conservative). Real classy Whoopi ..

@micahbrae

Жыл бұрын

Yes - exactly! Comparing gay marriage to violence and hate is ridic

Ofc only the POC see how damaging this could be.

Being LGBT is a protected classification in the United States. We dealt with equal protection in the 1960s. Why are we having this conversation again?

No one should be forced to do anything they are not comfortable with. Clients should patronize those who will do it period. What if I told you No, the court forces me to and I give you a substandard service? The best thing go to those who don't mind period. Personally if you don't like me, I won't patronize you.... Totally agree with Sara.

I actually think this was a great topic and discussion! I realize there was a time when due to systematic racism these laws were needed but I do think it may be time for them to adjusted a bit. Sometimes I do think some business owners should have the right to say "No I do not want your business", remember this is about business and the exchange goods/labor for money. Now the consequence is those people may choose to protest because of a bigoted POV the business may lose customers - remember actions have consequences. Obviously this does not apply to public servants - schools, banks, government buildings, hospitals, emergency services. Nor do I think anyone should be able to refuse employment for them... just throwing that out there

@ziva9266

Жыл бұрын

Wait whut. So discrimination based on skin colour is not okay (which I agree with) but some how discrimination based on sexual orientation is okay?

@somethingelse4225

Жыл бұрын

@@ziva9266 of course. Always remember that LGBTQ people are at the very bottom of the discrimination chain. No other group is as discriminated against because even racists and antisemites rarely admit what they are but homophobes wear it as a badge of honor as they go through life justifying their disgusting hate.

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@ziva9266 How is she discriminating based on sexual preference. She merely doesn’t want to promote a message that goes against her beliefs. She never said she wouldn’t serve a gay person.

@mscstapleton

Жыл бұрын

@@ziva9266 No neither is okay. I was just saying private businesses should have some rights when it comes to turning down work. As I stated if its for a morally questionable reason the potential client has the right to call them out for it but I do think certain companies should have that ability. Again the same rules do not apply to public servants or employment.

There is no LINE. This is a hard case because you shouldn’t as a Business be forced to serve any and everyone for whatever they ask, at the same time what does “anything mean” we already know how to court will decide this case which is sad

Do I have the right to tell her I don’t want to design a religious website? Or am I obligated to design it because I can’t discriminate against religious people?

In this segment we can see why Joy is the smartest one in this table! Sarah made great points as always! 👏🏻 And I really like all what Alyssa brings to the table! Bottom line… this country is based on freedom of religion and you practice your religion and your faith everywhere not just inside a temple ( well… )

@jamesfrancis9091

Жыл бұрын

It’s interesting you only agreed with all the white women at the table. The reason Sunny and Whoopi oppose this ladies POV is because they have lived through discrimination, bigotry, and racism and so have our grandparents, great grandparents, and so on. It’s not just history you read about in a textbook. That “history” is attached to our lineage in a very real and even present way. So you, along with some of the ladies at the table, may not understand why the Black women at the table are saying it’s a slippery slope. However, it very much so is and we must all come together to call it out and reject it once and for all.

@Jeff-cr6ur

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesfrancis9091 are you kidding? Sonny can be just as racist as the next person if you haven’t noticed. Just because someone is black doesn’t meant they can’t be racist. And she conveniently didnt answer Joy’s question about someone being forced to make a cake with a swastika on it. Sonny only disagrees when its her values being infringed upon, not anyone else’..

@erauprcwa

Жыл бұрын

@@Jeff-cr6ur How has Sunny been racist?

@Jeff-cr6ur

Жыл бұрын

@@erauprcwa kzread.info/dash/bejne/o4SbmcWsnNzedqw.html

@billbarr3960

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesfrancis9091 yawn...here we go - everyone's a victim

I'm with the business owner, and i like Sara's point why force someone who doesn't celebrate you out of all the Businesses that would

@giglioflex

Жыл бұрын

The problem is more the precedent this sets rather than this particular example. Right now you can't refuse service based on a protected class. Things like sex and race. If this ruling goes through though, it opens the door up to discrimination of protected classes. All of a sudden you are looking business being able to refuse service based on gender and race. In effect it's a Trojan horse that looks fine on the outside but ultimately could lead to America being taken back to the Jim Crow era.

If you cant discriminate against race why could you for sexuality??

To me, this seems like a cynical way to drum up business by appealing to those who are evangelical.

All I know, if a doctor down to someone baking my cake doesn’t want to service, me because of my personal beliefs I would rather have them tell me the truth and I go elsewhere.

@donnadayle3762

Жыл бұрын

will...i understand what you are saying but like joy said...it is a slippery slope. what's next? if the church or religion gets that kind of power they won't stop there!! religion will be forced upon us...i don't want that...

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@donnadayle3762 that’s exactly what’s happening with this gay agenda. It went from gay marriage to men using women’s restrooms , the word woman having no definition at all , to my pronouns are they ,then , it, Zoe , now they want to teach this gay , trans crap in schools and have drag queen story time . where does this stop… Do you actually hear what your saying, and are blind to what’s actually going on… it’s the Christian fighting for the right to not have to put up with this crap. unbelievable 😵‍💫 This agenda has been active for about what 10 years maybe a little more . Religion has been around forever and has never been forced on people the way this agenda is being forced on people , in so little time . What’s wrong with you people.

I just don’t think Whoopie has the range to engage in certain conversations. She’s much too biased and always comparing apples to oranges. Not wanting to bake a gay cake is completely different from choosing not to operate on someone.

@mkfd4571

Жыл бұрын

She’s not unintelligent but it’s clear the other women at the table are far more educated. Her points often sound juvenile.

@carmenelenamitrofan6860

Жыл бұрын

No, it's not. In fact i do believe it happend.... But since you americans have an allergy to learning and books, etc...you wouldn't know

@rn6710

Жыл бұрын

She just blabbers.

@ritauwimana7647

Жыл бұрын

They did that to Black people back in the day though so the comparison is relevant. Same about interracial marriages. There are still people in some towns and states that do not serve mixed couples or even people of color or in this case gay people. Wake up!

@ritauwimana7647

Жыл бұрын

@@mkfd4571 She didn't go to college so it's understandable.

Hmmm I can not see a reason for the state to compel her to do anything for a gay couple. The consequences should be societal not governmental.

@donnadayle3762

Жыл бұрын

ocon...or religious!! which this woman is trying to push for. someone who thinks their religion is more important than making a living is clearly blinded by her cult...

@carnivorepolice5-0

Жыл бұрын

@donnadayle3762 no she is not, just say you don't understand the point without saying you understand the point being made. Your opinion on her religion doesn't matter, she is choosing her morals over her wealth so that's a personal choice why does it bother people like you?

My position is you can’t deny someone a service because they’re gay but you have the right under freedom of speech and expression not perform services you do t agree with.

The difference is hate speech is different then people just trying to live their life and be married. That is love, not hate speech!

@nashvegas4476

Жыл бұрын

Hate speech doesn’t exist.

This case is not being decided on religious freedom argument. It is a freedom of expression case and people can not be compelled to express ideas that run contrary to their beliefs. It is discrimination to state that you won’t serve somebody because of the color of their skin. It is not discrimination to tell somebody you won’t serve them because of their actions. Freedom gets messy, but it is well worth the mess as opposed to being told what you will and will not do and who cares what you think.

@MinhVu-fl4nn

Жыл бұрын

Unless of course what they don't believe in is in direct contradiction to law. Marriage is protected and gay marriage is now protected as well. Some people believe that some races are superior to others, some even goes as far as believing some races are sub-human. If a person says, I don't believe in interracial marriage, are they now allowed to oppose to serving interracial couples? Religious freedom and freedom of expression should not be allowed to override discrimination laws that exist. Nothing of course stops someone from making a crappy cake or crappy website because they disagree with their clients.

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@MinhVu-fl4nn stop comparing this to racism . Being gay is not a race. Serving someone some food is different than expressing something you don’t want to express. You don’t have the right to control someones speech. I don’t believe she said she wouldn’t serve gay people did she.

@MinhVu-fl4nn

Жыл бұрын

@@ThatGuy-nr5sp I never said being gay is a race (but neither race nor sexuality is a choice). What I'm saying is anti discrimination laws exist for a reason. If marriage defined under the law now includes gay marriage, then saying you will only serve straight marriages and not gay marriages is discrimination. Free speech has limitations when it comes to discrimination. We can't control what people believe in or how the feel about something, but we can use laws to protect others from discrimination.

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@MinhVu-fl4nn For one sexuality is a choice . As far the discrimination, well the first amendment give her religious freedom and freedom of expression does it not. So if her religion doesn’t agree with this type of wedding, isn’t forcing her to express something against her will unconstitutional and discriminatory to that person and their beliefs. I believe that’s what the argument is about . Why does their wedding over ride her constitutional rights .

@ThatGuy-nr5sp

Жыл бұрын

@@MinhVu-fl4nn I also believe this is why they shouldn’t have called it marriage. Obama told them he would give them civil union , If they would of did that I don’t think we would be having so many problems about this issue . I think that’s what they should call it.

Ok, wait a minute, have they found out who released the Dobbs report? Seems like no one is asking this question anymore.

Even with the Bible, most cherry pick it. I went to grad school to get my MA in Counseling, and several peers stated that they would not counsel any gays. I asked them “Why are you going into counseling then?” Separation of church and state is imperative. Period.

"No shirt No shoes No service."

Joy completely misunderstood Sonny's answer.

Sara’s point is the same as Candace Cameron Burr’s on the show several years ago, and her legendary exchange with Raven-Symoné

Alyssa, Joy and Sara all seem to be on the same page and I agree with them.

@bigsexxy1

Жыл бұрын

I wish the view talk about the Twitter files how big tech working with government agencies like FBI suppressing one candidate speech in favoring another that is illegal

@rednugget1986

Жыл бұрын

Noted: Whoopies example of "I don't need to treat you medically because I don't like your politics." Yet they leave out Kristie Alleys death (no mention of her) because these bias women and show DOESN'T agree with Kristie's political views (being that she was a Conservative). Real classy Whoopi ..

@bigsexxy1

Жыл бұрын

No talking about avenatti going to prison for over 2 decades the view panel hero

This is exactly how you destroy a society. I am Christian and will definitely not support anything that demeans other people because of my faith. Christianity is all about love and care for others. I don't understand why people hide under the guise of faith to harm or bring other people down. That is not Christianity.

@donnadayle3762

Жыл бұрын

Quotient...finally, a person with common sense. too many people have been brainwashed by fundamental religions. that means it is a cult not a religion. religion has too much power. they should NOT be exempt from paying taxes. jesus taught love & peace and these crazy, corrupt religions are making it about hate.

This is where I feel the religious community continues to get it wrong. They continue to go after "Gay marriage". Well, stopping marriage is NOT going to stop people from having sex, which is what they feel is the actual sin. I've always been confused by that.

Why would you push people to do they don’t want ? She is a private business and she has the right to accept or decline . She is a designer and she needs to love what she wants to do. Let them go to another designer

@RaymondHng

Жыл бұрын

Not according to Colorado anti-discrimination law: 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes § 24-34-601. Discrimination in places of public accommodation _(2) (a) It is a discriminatory practice and unlawful for a person, directly or indirectly, to refuse, withhold from, or deny to an individual or a group, because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry, the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation or, directly or indirectly, to publish, circulate, issue, display, post, or mail any written, electronic, or printed communication, notice, or advertisement that indicates that the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of a place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from, or denied an individual or that an individual's patronage or presence at a place of public accommodation is unwelcome, objectionable, unacceptable, or undesirable because of disability, race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, national origin, or ancestry._

@linaalhmaid8922

Жыл бұрын

@@RaymondHng public accommodation but this is a private designer . You can set the rules for public but inside my house I’m free to host who I want . This is not discrimination protection.

@RaymondHng

Жыл бұрын

@@linaalhmaid8922 This designer sells her services to the public. If she sells her services to straight people, she must also sell the same services to gay people as well. She is suing the Colorado Civil Rights Division for an exemption to the anti-discrimination law. If she thought the anti-discrimination law did not apply to her business, she would not have filed a lawsuit.

Agree with Sarah and I really like Alyssa on this panel