''Keeping the Elves away from places they shouldn't be...like Helm's Deep'' - I see what you did there, well played Sir, well played.

The plan was largely sound, but no plan survives contact with silly Hobbits and old men with walking sticks.

@mikealexander1935

6 ай бұрын

Launching three separate armies against Lothlorien was a mistake. He should either have combined forces and launch on stronger attack, or use on force to block a potential expedition out of Lothlorien and send the other three north to overwhelm the elves of Mirkwood.

@soliumw645

6 ай бұрын

Þřþtþþj0))(!

@bitterzombie

6 ай бұрын

I'd have gotten away with it too, if it werent for those meddling hobbits & their gollum

@andrewvincent7299

2 ай бұрын

@@mikealexander1935 The armies of the Easterlings were supposed to defeat Dale and Erebor thereby freeing them to join the armies of Dol Goldur and defeat Thranduil and later Galadriel and Celeborn. After that, the plan was probably Rivendell and Rohan.

Quick shout-out to Battle for Middle-earth 2 for focusing on Dol Guldur, Dale etc. up north, among other less well-trodden places.

@lawrencetalbot8346

6 ай бұрын

This game needs a remaster

@NastyCupid

6 ай бұрын

And don't forget the BFME II Rise of the Witch-King, the Angmar vs Arnor campaign was really well done and lore-friendly 👌

@DarthGandalfYT

6 ай бұрын

If only we got a BFME3.

@YoungGorthaur

6 ай бұрын

@@DarthGandalfYT check out age of the ring a mod for BFME 2

@dardo1201

6 ай бұрын

My only annoyance with bfme 2 was the rigid mission structure compared to the world map of the first game.

Where there's a whip, there is a way.

@Disgruntled_Grunt

6 ай бұрын

We don't wanna go to war todayyy But the lord of the lash says nay, nay, nay

@Blind-qz7pt

2 ай бұрын

*Edit* Where there's a whip... *Wha-pish!* There's a way!

Considering Sauron's perspective on time, it must have been weird to change gears and attack Minas Tirith as soon as possible because of Aragorn challenging Sauron through the Palantir. Suddenly Sauron needed Minas Tirith to fall before Aragorn could get there, because Sauron thought that Aragorn might well use the Ring's power to take over Gondor, and unite many peoples of Middle-earth against Sauron from there. On the many different attacks, they do also make a lot of sense from a logistical perspective. Outside of naval supply or going through lands full of food stores, you can't supply a large army over large distances for long. The wagons transporting the food have an animal and a driver using up the food they're transporting and the food which is available along the way.

@00yiggdrasill00

6 ай бұрын

Yes the ring does seem to be the key to understanding Sauron's strategy. Under normal circumstances he could not be defeated by military might...but someone taking control of the ring and ripping that power away from him would be a disaster likely to topple him, so he attacked every point of danger. While Aragorn is the most prominent threat of this, Galadriel and Dain should he have lived would also very likely be capable of it, and turning your enemies strength against them is a very good method of victory. It would have ended in a new dark lord but Sauron himself would still have been defeated and he was likely terrified of the possibility.

@kirtmanwaring3629

2 ай бұрын

Not only that but we, and presumably Sauron knew Galadriel was quite fond of Aragorn who wasn’t exactly a spiritual weakling himself. Imagine Aragorn with the One convincing Galadriel to not immediately take off her ring, the Elves knew they had an escape route and surely Aragorn would be a worthy leader among men? Maybe he would have only needed her to keep her ring on for an extra few seconds but in any case I can see Sauron not wanting Aragorn to get that chance to bring a potential powerful and subordinate ally onto the same battlefield.​@@00yiggdrasill00

@00yiggdrasill00

2 ай бұрын

@@kirtmanwaring3629 indeed. Sauron's response seems to have been one of desperation. The chances of him losing were great if Aragorn had the ring. When analysing his strategy we always need to remember that what we got was not what was planned and that he couldn't fathom someone even attempting to destroy the ring. In Sauron's eyes there was only two possible outcomes, either he won or someone replaced him, and he had exactly that situation put before him.

The way he was winning War of the Ring was very much how Morgoth was dominating Beleriand near the end of the 1st Age. So we can safely say he learned from his master alot.

@kongspeaks4778

6 ай бұрын

He benefited a lot from the exposure he got during his unpaid internship with Morgoth

@WJstudios04

6 ай бұрын

How he was winning tho? He lost almost every major battle. In Second Age he had the Ring and STILL was pushed back to Mordor.

@Rauruatreides

5 ай бұрын

​@WJstudios04 as the video said, sure his first assault failed in a technical perspective, but it was only a relatively small portion of his full forces which stripped away most of the strength of his enemies, meaning that his second assault would succeed, and if that somehow failed, then his third would too. Don't forget how close he was to reclaiming the ring.

@MarkaNgamer

4 ай бұрын

@@WJstudios04 At the end of the 3rd Age he was winning. Also, the domination in the North capturing entire Angmar was huge advantage that allowed him to focus on Rohan and Gondor. Those "big battles" you mentioned, only allowed the opposition to survive, not win.

@andrewvincent7299

2 ай бұрын

@@MarkaNgamer Exactly. With Angmar, Sauron destroyed the Kingdom of Arnor and following the war of Angmar went on to weaken all the remaining nations of Middle Earth. Like you said, the first battles Sauron lose in the War of the Ring only allowed the opposition to survive, not win. If Frodo hadn't succeeded, everyone would have been doomed. Gondor and Rohan didn't have the strength to defeat Mordor, Erebor was on it's last leg and would have eventually been breached and defeated by the Easterlings who would have moved on and joined with the forces of Dol Goldur and defeated the Woodland Elves and the Elves of Lorien. Middle Earth was screwed if the ring wasn't destroyed.

More spectacular was Sauron’s logistical train to keep armies fed, replacements moving, and spare parts as required, etc…

Reminds me of how time favored Morgoth, and Sauron likely planned with that history in mind. It's likely he was willing to gamble as many armies as necessary to isolate Minas Tirith and Erebor, where his hardest blow would fall, just as he saw Morgoth bring the hammer down on Fingolfin's and Maedhro's realms in the Battle of Sudden Flame, at which point, the main fortresses enclosing him would be out of the fight, and he could control the pace of the war. In that sense, it makes even more sense: Diversionary attacks that take the strength from puppets (Saruman, Misty Mountain Goblins) to keep the enemy busy- if they succeed, great. If they fail, it's their forces, not his. Meanwhile, armies under his direct control take the most crucial territory near him, increasing his area of control, creating a new buffer/satellite region to Mordor, and allowing him to more directly attack the others. With that in mind, I suspect that's why he was willing to focus three armies on Galadriel to keep her and her ring out of the fight, as all he needs is to break the barrier closest to him. Victory in Lothlorian or Mirkwood would be great of course, but in the end, he only needs to win in Gondor and Dale. Once that's achieved, no one, not even his nominal "allies" like Saruman can hope to challenge him, especially not after expending themselves to take less valuable or defensible territory...though now I wonder what the Goblins of the Misty mountains thought of all this, or the Balrog himself (while he was alive) considering this meant they would go from being somewhat independent yet less powerful than elves, dwarves, and men to having a master.

Sauron wanted to take out the Dwarves and Men first and deal with the Elves later, probably because the Elves had their Elven Rings that made them extremely difficult to assail, probably wanted to lead them himself personally or had the Nazgûl lead them.

@borismuller86

5 ай бұрын

I wonder if he partly hoped they would just cut their losses, and seeing men (and dwarves) defeated, they would just leave Middle Earth for good.

His plan to tie up his opponants clearly was working right up to the destruction of the ring. Though as you say their were three opponants that he didn't anticipate which allowed Minas Tirith to be reinforced, it was not enough to deal with future attacks, He had tied down everyone else.

My impression was that Saruman launched his war because he was convinced that Rohan had the ring. He knew that Hobbits had it, and that Hobbits had been captured by Anduin on their way to Gondor, and Rohan had destroyed his returning column by Fangorn, where Aragorn was also seen to be. Saruman launched his attack because all available intel implied that if he could take Rohan now, he would also take the Ring. At no point in the book did we get a passage that suggested Saruman was actually obeying Sauron's orders. Quite the contrary, he always deceived others in his hunt for the ring for himself.

Being honest, Sauron never struck me a a military commander, yes, he had the command of armies, but his main tactic seems to have been just to overwhelm the enemy with numbers, something that had even failed on a number of occasions for his master, Melkor. Despite his intelligence, he does not seem to have learnt from either his own or Melkor's defeats. Even in the first age, his only real accomplishment was taking the original Minas Tirith on Tol Sirion, and then loosing it to Luthien. This is reinforced by the fact that where Sauron was Melkor's lieutenant, he is never listed as having led Melkor's armies in battle, that honour going to Melkor's other lieutenant, the balrog Gothmog. As for his plan for the War of the Ring, personally he tried to be too cleaver and divided his forces too much; there were a number of things that could have been done to improve his chances of success, and reduce casualties, I know that this is not a major concern for him but lower casualties mean more troops for follow up attacks: 1) Do not attack Lothlorien. He should have know that invading Lothlorien had a very slim chance of success, and just positioned one or two of his armies just south of Lothlorien to intercept any elves that attempted to travel south to aid Rohan/Gondor. The would have freed up one or two armies to reinforce either the attack on Thranduil and/or Rohan. 2) The Corsairs and Haradrim should not have attacked southern Gondor, but rather been added to the forces at the battle of Pelennor Fields. It was the threat of attack by the Corsairs that kept the southern fiefs from sending more aid to Minas Tirith, not an actual attack. May be have a dozen Corsair ships sailing close enough to the coast to be seen to reinforce the threat, maybe raid the odd village, but just raiding, not attempting to hold. This way, when Aragorn arrives at the ports with the army of the dead, there is no one for them to fight; the locals would still have refused to march to Minas Tirith since as far as they are concerned the ports could still be attacked by the Corsairs; and even if Aragorn could convince them, there would have been no captured ships for them to sail on, which would have meant that they would have arrived too late for the battle of Pelennor Fields. Of course, Sauron would have still been defeated when Gollum fell in to the Crack of Doom with the One Ring, but ...

A Great day it is when a new Darth Gandalf videos comes out , they really make my day

Your last point is the whole thing. I think Saueon knew it would be slow going at first at the free peoples would put up a fight but once Gondor falls and if lorien falls no one else could resist for long

Here's a fun thing to consider - the attacks on the north had 4 and a bit armies going from Dol Guldur, three being thrown at Lorioen, one at Thranduil and all weakened to send that small force to Rohan. I think this was a quick change on Sauron's part, the original plan being just two armies, one against Lorien and one against Thranduil. And then the Balrog in Moria dies and some gremlin puts the One Ring on near Lothlorien, right in Galadriel's back yard. I think Sauron panicked then and hastily reorganize forces, the attack on Thranduil was now a diversion only and Lorien had a massive army to be thrown against it. Then, days later, Aragorn gets the Ring in Rohan and heads for Minas Tirith and Sauron scrambles again, deciding Minas Tirith needs to go down NOW, especially since Saruman jumped the gun with his invasion - and Saruman definitely did that to get his hands on the Ring. And so, the forces in Dol Guldur are reshuffled for a second time, split into three prongs of attack, but the confusion at this point is probably great enough that the single massive attack on Lorien falls apart into three waves and assault on Thranduil now has insufficient forces. And I'd hate to be a nazgul during those days, because they were probably busy flying every which way at the time...

cheers and greetings from Canada love your content.. may the Valar bless your path.

"Keeping the Elves away from places they shouldn't be... like Helm's Deep!" 😂 I'm pretty sure by this point that Sauron would be well ware that he wouldn't be cracking Lórien. His attacks aimed there were trying to prevent Lórien from sending armies south, which they otherwise easily could have done. As you point out in your early videos, the realms of the North are collectively quite a bit stronger than Rohan, even if individually they are weaker. Now, here's the question: if Sauron were attacking everyone at once, how come he didn't send some kind of army at Imladris, or an additional Corsair force to deal with Lindon?

@mrsamaritan6881

6 ай бұрын

Even Sauron's force aren't unlimited - and he was forced to move ahead with his plans before he had actually gotten all his forces set up the way he was originally planning.

@richardthomas5362

6 ай бұрын

@@mrsamaritan6881 Thanks to Aragorn showing Sauron his ugly mug in the Palentir.

My family plans include not seeing any of them on Christmas Day and Boxing Day. Mainly because it always ends up with my mother and sister fighting by teatime. They're not very original in that they both try to get me involved on "their side." I'm 55 and don't need the aggravation. My mother's 83, and my sister is 53. It appears they don't learn. Instead, I'll do my own thing, which probably involves watching The Fellowship of the Ring at some point. I'll still cook a turkey etc. But at my pace. 😊😊😊

Your final holiday suggestion made me come back from the next vid in my queue to say "LMFAO!" and "Thank you!".

The advantages of immortality. However, whilst that is an advantage of the race of Men, it does not explain why the Elves did not militarise in response to his threat. Being immortal themselves, they could, in theory, have fought Sauron to a stand still. The Dwarves also had substantially greater lifespans than men, and were generally better equipped. No, the real reason why Sauron would have won if not for Sam and Frodo, is simply because his enemies were disunited. Had the Children of Ilúvatar acted together rather than allowing petty differences to divide them, Sauron would not have had a chance.

@dracthewanderer6871

6 ай бұрын

I mean in practice elven immortality was on an ticking timer. Sooner or later they fade faster then they can pump out babies. Dwarves had similar issue too.

The attack on Minas tirith was provoked by Aragorn using the palantir. We dont know Saurons original plan.

@alanpennie

6 ай бұрын

I doubt it was very different. After all The Corsairs would have to set sail a week or two before the main attack from Mordor began.

@alanpennie

6 ай бұрын

Considering distances and times it does seem possible that if Sauron had immediately dispatched a winged Nazul to Umbar on 6 March they could have reached Pelargir by 13 March. But they must already have had their armada fully prepared and be only awaiting the go order before setting sail.

@alanpennie

6 ай бұрын

Assuming that in good weather the fleet could travel 100 miles in 24 hours and that Pelargir is about 500 miles from The Havens.

@thylange

6 ай бұрын

@@alanpennie In the novel Aragorn talks about the "fast stroke often goes astray". It seems that Sauron rushed the attack. It probably means that he would have attacked with greater forces if Sauron attacked later.

So he made 7 invasions and lost all of them. Seems like he should have prioritized the top 3 or something.

@amsfountain8792

6 ай бұрын

And in fact he did. Gondor was the main one and the others were secundary. He deployed several armies and attacked from different directions with almost unstoppable force. All his Nazguls were in Gondor too. He even deployed another army to stop any rohan reinforcements. Still his plans werent good enough but he almost succeeded.

@anonymous-hz2un

6 ай бұрын

​@@amsfountain8792 had he survived long enough, the witch king might have even had some counter curse in his bag against the army of the dead. Tough luck, ig.

@Disgruntled_Grunt

6 ай бұрын

Each of his armies were destroyed, yes. But They served the purpose of weakening all of his enemies and preventing them from reinforcing one another (with the exception of Rohan). So from Sauron's perspective, that he has all the time in the world to muster new armies, they served their purpose. Any loss to the Free Peoples is a long-term setback, as well as cause for grief (morale is a huge factor in war). Any loss to Sauron is much easier to recuperate from, since he has multiple nations of people singularly loyal to him, and orc hordes can be quickly replaced -- I think it was even implied that he had enough orcs in Mordor to launch a second assault on Gondor immediately after the Battle of Pelennor.

@Disgruntled_Grunt

6 ай бұрын

@@anonymous-hz2un The ghost-boys never made it to that battle. A lot of people get that wrong because of the movies, which is fine. What really happened was: after the Oathbreakers drove the Corsairs out of Pelargir, Aragorn released them on the spot. The Corsair ships were then boarded by The Grey Company (a bunch of super-elite Rangers who had joined him in the Paths of the Dead) along with a bunch of Gondorian soldiers, and _that_ force sailed up the river to relieve Minas Tirith. It wouldn't exactly be a good look for Aragorn to show up to the battle with a horde of undead horrors in tow, then proclaim himself the rightful king.

@thefifthhobbit2092

6 ай бұрын

@@Disgruntled_Grunt You forget that after the third assault of Lorien, Celeborn moved forward and took Dol Guldur, this leaves a major player without a direct challenger. Sauron was winning atritionally but if that kept up tables could be turned. Without Dol Guldur the Woodelves were free to harass the Easterlings at Erebor and using ravens Erebor could probably sally and use the woodelves to win decisively at Dale. Also Lorien had the freedom to take Moria if they wanted, (they may have only wanted to neutralize any western threat and opening mountain passes to Imladris) the Balrog was dead, the gates broken and standing open. Moria may favour the defender with its ancient defences where it funnelled the enemy but with an attacker like Lorien Bridges would favour the archers and the best troops in the funnel points. All things considered I think the Free peoples had a decent chance at playing defence under these conditions for a bit.

Sauron really had a freedom in directing his attacks thanks to his MASSIVE numbers advantage, he could assault everywhere at once and still outnumber the enemy! Oh! The Ents defeated Dol Guldur's orcs assaulting Rohan, that is news to me! I am glad those supposedly powerful entities (pun intended) did more than just ruin Isengard while the Uruk Hai were away.

The Ring was found and was out there somewhere. He wanted. And he feared Aragorn. And there was Gandalf, an Istari doing his job. Sauron would prefer not to wait much more. And keeping everyone one separated was a good plan.

Excellent video!

He had the Ring in Second Age and STILL was pushed back to Mordor

When I was reading the LOTR to my kids I had a Middle Earth Atlas with me. At some point I told them what was going on worldwide AND was able to show them where it was happening. I think they appreciated that.

@DarthGandalfYT

6 ай бұрын

That's really nice. It's daunting hearing so many place names without actually knowing where they are.

Actually, Sauron didn't think he had time. He thought someone (most likely Gandalf) took the Ring and was working on mastering it. So he rushed his plans, thinking if he struck fast and hard enough, maybe he would crush the faction holding the Ring, namely Gondor. His original plan was to bide his time, grow immense armies, overwhelm free peoples, but then Ring resurfaced...

On the one hand, attacking wood elves, dwarves and Lorien seems unnecessary - how can they help Gondor before Minas Tirith falls? On the other, Sauron doesn't want to risk yet another surprising Eothed-like invasion from the north.

Great vid, subscribed

Yes. Very good. Thanks

Great video.

Perhaps he was also trying to isolate Aragorn, in his mind the bearer of the One Ring, from reenforcements. We know Gandalf with the ring challenging Sauron would have been "a close run thing", obviously Aragorn didn’t have Gandalf’s native spiritual power but maybe Aragorn with Galadriel and her elven ring would have been a threat. Aragorn as Ringbearer with even more elves, dwarves and men at his back might have been too dangerous also, we don’t know enough about the One Ring’s capacity probably but in the hands of an effective leader like Aragorn with all those added allies in one place … maybe.

The siege of Dale/The Lonely Mt is my favorite story of friendship and devotion in the legendarium!! How King Daine valiantly and stubbornly defended the dead body of his friend and fellow king, King Brand until he too was overwhelmed and slain!!

Great video bro Just a quick mention, the Woodland Ream had more Elves defending it than Lothlorien and had a better underground Fortress to defend themselves from am attack or siege... I believe they would stand for more attacks than just 1, cheers!

@Crafty_Spirit

6 ай бұрын

Where did you read that more elves lived in Mirkwood than Lothlorien? Just curious, never heard that before

Can you do a video about the dwarfs army like military ranks?and love ❤️ your videos!!!

-Fight small actions to test or distract his enemies while he masses his forces. - Strike simultaneously assault all enemies with overwhelming force pushing them back into defensive actions, pinning the major powers (Gondor, the Dwarves of Erebor and the Iron Hills and the Elves of four great Elven realms of Lindon, Lothlorian, Rivendell and Woodland realm, pinning them down and isolating them from one another. -Defeat the minor nations either before or after they pin down and isolate the major powers. Nations like Rohan, Dale, the minor dwarven holds.

I know its dumb but you gotta strike the Mithril when its hot: First :D

I would love to see a TV show on these battles kind of like The Pacific/ Band of Brothers meets Middle Earth. Seeing different characters and even villains during this excursions.

@iz9744

5 ай бұрын

Don't. Please don't. It does sound great, but the bozos currently producing fantasy adaptations would create another woke sacrilage. Beterthey leave their filthy hands away from our books.

One of the only fictional stories I've seen where the villain is actually better than the heroes; smarter, more capable, more powerful. Sauron's plan was 1,000 years in the making, after previously beating Arnor through attrition. Tolkien writes the heroes to have attempted every possible counter, to no avail, because Sauron always had a contingency. "What about this? - No, he's thought of that and would stop us". There is simply no way to beat him. Which is why the story is really about the journey of the ring and everything else that happens is just context and world building for why the ring quest is so important. If these little Hobbits fail, the world is dedicatedly doomed. Jackson portrayed the free peoples as weak, corrupt, or foolish, just in need of a good hero to lead them, but in Tolkien's book, it didn't matter who the leader was, they were always doomed.

I dont agree that Saurons fault was strategy it was something different. Sauron was different than his master in a sense that he spend his power upon himself and his ring rather than lets say his armies. Even in the Third Age Sauron still wields considerable personal power compared to his earlier incarnations unlike Morgoth whose fall in power was so drastic that it paid off in a different way. Sauron always kept up his power to himself and rarely attempted to spread it. He was still in commune with his ring and could influence his armies with its power. Morgoths ring didnt have a link with Morgoth and was wholly spread to the material reality. This has pros and cons but for Morgoth it meant that he had vast amounts of armies that couldnt be defeated by anyone expect the armies of the Valar. This is why elves never had a chance against him. Saurons fault was being over pragmatic. He too spend personal power to strengthen his armies ( such as the demonic buff to WK and the creation of Olog-hai) but it was never something significant to make a difference. His main force consisted of orcs and evil men but these doesnt have the quality to match the might of the Men of Gondor and even Rohan. He wielded great personal power but only used it for the support of his armies. Sauron never understood that this was ineffective and keeping his personal power was next to useless when most of his armies were cannon fodder. If I were Sauron I would do the same thing Morgoth did but not on the same nihilistic scale. Create a race of great power to match the power of his enemies or buff certain individuals who could make war-changing effects. Surely not on the same scale as dragons but still powerfull. If Sauron did that earlier I doubt that Elves and Numenoreans alone could defeat him. It took Gandalf the White to face Witch King who was nothing but a shadow of his true potential ( this being Sauron having the ring in the second age ). Just imagine Sauron buffing the Witch King in the Second Age where he would make Third Age Witch King look like a shadow... Sauron probably understood that but it was already too late. .

I don't think we should the attacks on loth lorien as defeats. Why didnt saurin send all attack waves at ones to make shore he wins this fight. In my opinion he knew this is a fight he can't Winn because of galadriel. So I think the objektiv was to lock her in place until he had claimed the one Ring. Avidents fir that is that he hat three attacks send to lorien instead of one big. It showed the galathrim that they could not help without exposing their own realm so they didn't. Seen from this Perspektive the three attacks were a success. But I agree that it would be smarter to reduce them by one attack and reinforce the stack on thranduils realm by the freed troops to enshoure victory or at least make it more likely at this Frontline.

@Crafty_Spirit

6 ай бұрын

I would agree, if the forces of Dol Guldur suffice to keep the Galadhrim in place, it would seem unnecessary to relocate troops from Mordor in order to take Lothlorien. Maybe that would have been possible but at a cost that would give Gondor the option to strike elsewhere

I'm living through this right now.

Fascinating and original, a rare thing in this saturated space 👌

Darth Gandalf was my favourite Witcher in the Dune series 👍🏻

he just attacked on way to many fronts at once. He should have just kept standing armies to prevent the elves and dale men from assisting Gondor and rohan. once dealt with the other areas would have fallen easily.

Sauron’s thinking was he had to attack soon. His opponents possessed the one ring. They just needed time to negotiate who would wield the ring, and that person would take time to learn how. He was surprised the forces came against so soon after the battle at Minas tirith, perhaps the designated ring wielder was thinking all he had to do was put it on. Perhaps the reason for attacking lothlorien and Rivendell was to prevent two capable ring wielders from bringing the battle to Mordor

Imagine if Sauron only employed men from Rhun and Harad. I bet he would have more success since Orcs have a huge weakness in the sun.

@Anvil.X

2 ай бұрын

Sauron smokes the sky, in the films its not show

The last line 😂

Sauron begins the invasion...

3:10 i never understand why tolkien describle the blood of numenor as almost spend when many people in gondor still have it in their blood

Sauron makes a big mistake attacking everywhere all at once in the north. He doesn't have the forces for that and Dol Guldur falls. Going further back, he makes an earlier error in threatening Dain to try to get information on Bilbo when he at least suspects that Dain, in a strong defensive position, can survive an attack by the Easterlings alone if he's certain Sauron is hostile and has time to prepare. Rather than risk having this attack fail, he should crush his northern enemies one by one, first Dain, then Thranduil, and finally Galadriel. Yes, Sauron is immortal and has all the time he needs. But his armies are mortal, and if he fritters them away in piecemeal attacks on three different enemies he creates an opening for Galadriel to attack him, which she would never have done had he not created the opportunity. It's not enough for Sauron to have really big armies that can reinforce themselves with new recruits out of the east. He has to maintain a strong defense at Dol Guldur at all times because that reinforcement is not instantaneous.

Algormancy!

Obviously it was Attrition Warfare.

So how are the reserves of Sauron so replenishable or numerous? Do Orcs breed like rabbits or something? Never seen an Orc woman, is it out the ground magically then? Self replication? Part 2 How would so many army reserves be sustainable? There doesn't seem to be much farmland in Mordor. Even if they primarily eat meat, their prey needs a food source... The wonderful thing about Tolkien is, maybe he provided these answers?

@DarthGandalfYT

6 ай бұрын

The wonderful thing is that he did answer both questions! As for Orcs, they breed just like everyone else, but the fact that we never see any Orc women suggests that they stay at home and have the rather unenviable job of being breeding factories. As for how the army is sustainable, there's a large region in southern Mordor called Nurn which is Sauron's main source of food. It's a fertile region with access to fresh water, so it's farmed by Sauron's endless supply of slaves that come in from the east.

@Pastree117

6 ай бұрын

@@DarthGandalfYT "We never see any Orc women" not so sure that is a fact. In the movies yes, Peter Jackson did what he did. Even so, could be hard to say with the way Orcs look and the armor. In the books, isn't it an assumption of the reader to think a given army is only made up of males? However, given the general vibe Orcs give off (feudalism and brutality) the suggestion of breeding camps tracks. They do represent Evil after all

It's hindsight of course but if Sauron had sent a strong enough force against Gondor that it would have still defeated the combined forces of Gondor and Rohan there, there would have been no army of the Free Peoples to distract him by marching to the Black Gate and in all likelihood, Frodo and Sam don't make it to the Sammath Naur. I think Sauron overreacted to his defeat in the War of the Last Alliance and spread himself too thin by trying to attack so many different locations simultaneously.

@amsfountain8792

6 ай бұрын

Could the other troops being diverted to Gondor? I think these armies were too far to reach Gondor even if they tried. Logistically not possible.

@SNWWRNNG

6 ай бұрын

The attack on Minas Tirith was begun early because of Aragorn's provocation through the Palantir, but I doubt many more troops could have been sent to Minas Tirith from a logistical perspective; you can only cross the Anduin in a few spots, and even the actual army barely had time to take the city before they run out of supplies (unless the Corsairs have planned a major naval supply operation). And we have to remember that in the actual invasion southern Gondor was being invaded as well, with the Corsairs planning to head up the river to reinforce the force besieging Minas Tirith. Ultimately Rohan circumventing the blocking army thanks to the Druedain and the Witch-king being killed put the battle in a state where Aragorn, having freed southern Gondor out of nowhere, can come in with minor reinforcements but turn the battle through morale impact - flying his royal standard on the ships that the forces of Mordor expected to carry allies. Many unlikely circumstances.

@AlphariusDominatus

6 ай бұрын

Umbar, Harad and Minas Morgul was more than enough to crush Minas Tirith. They were just miraculously routed because plot armor. Cutting off The Dwarves and Mirkwood was tactically strange. But I think Sauron didn't have control over The Easterling Army and they were doing whatever they wished. They wanted Dale and Erebor for selfish reasons.

@Disgruntled_Grunt

6 ай бұрын

I think the force he sent _was_ plenty strong to defeat Minas Tirith, but the attack went wrong due to a bunch of unpredictable things happening: 1) Aragorn's bluff forcing an early move 2) Rohirrim being shown a secret forest path by a secret tribe that no one even knew existed 3) the Corsairs being routed by a ghost army that Sauron may not have even known about, or that it could still be commanded by anyone 4) those Corsairs being replaced by an enemy army 5) the Witch-king turned out to actually be kill-able If Sauron could have known any of those things would happen, for sure he would have directed more of his forces to Minas Tirith. But without that knowledge, the 4 armies he sent should have been sufficient (redundant, even). Let's say he sent ALL of his armies there, and Gondor was absolutely crushed. Then he's got his entire fighting force in one place, without proper supply lines, and the whole rest of Middle-earth is mustering and marching. That may have actually left him in an even worse place (from a military perspective) than he was after the events as they played out. Of course, this isn't taking into account the Ring, since he believed it was in Minas Tirith.

@Crafty_Spirit

6 ай бұрын

​@@Disgruntled_Grunt But maybe an even larger army would suffer equally critically by the loss of the Witch-King. Sauron needs a powerful vessel to hold such an oversized army of unnatural alliances together

He did build a gate to the MT. DOOM if he was coutious enough.

attacking everyone at once kinda doesn't make sense with medieval logistics. I guess he used localised armies but even then 1 decisive battle is exactly what the Roman army would have wanted but not the barbarians. The question is more based on what style of warfare does Sauron use. Id argue non-conventional battles like ambushes however he still choose to fight pitched battles in all 7 invasions. (easterlings maybe could have held their own and is probs why they won their battle) PLus i found the lore that said the elves were leavings as pretty poor writing.

@forickgrimaldus8301

6 ай бұрын

I think the Armies he had attacking were less his Complete Force from his POV and more like his Vanguard, The Large Armies he had were more like forces made to probe the enemy than to really defeat them in battle except maybe the ones against the Major Human factions most are probably just there to see hiw strong the enemy was. (Sauron basically has an Unlimited Manpower cheat so he can take his time.)

Why does cutting hands/fingers kill suoron

@calaz4054

6 ай бұрын

He lost immense power when he lost the ring

That and the fact that it's only a book. Tolkien wanted sauron to lose.

There was very little strategic value in attacking dale and erebor even the attacks on the elves seem very unnesecary. When Was the last time gondor was helped by these factions? Thousands of years? An even stronger blitzkrieg on gondor would have been the better strategy.

@Crafty_Spirit

6 ай бұрын

His numerical advantage against Gondor following his plan was already tenfold or more. I don't think that deploying even more soldiers would make up for the increased costs in logistics. If you take a look at estimated army sizes during the battle of the Pelennor it seems as if the quality of his troops was the problem. I can even imagine that leadership broke down after the Witch-King's destruction. As if the various units of diverse background could not coordinate with each other to take advantage of their higher numbers. No matter the size of Sauron's armies of slaves, they have a frail quality ☠

@David-qm2qj

4 ай бұрын

@@Crafty_Spirit Yes, but the reserve Armies could have stopped Aragorns march to the Black Gate or initiate a second Siege under other Nazgul command. Or just to post 100 orcs before the entrance to mount doom. :D

@Crafty_Spirit

4 ай бұрын

@@David-qm2qj I think you overlook that Sauron lost not only a huge army but the only general that could keep it together, plus logistics. It wouldn't have made any difference whether the second battle took place at the Black Gate or not. Regarding the guarding of Mount Doom, no I think Orcs could not survive weeks or even days in front of Mount Doom :)

Maybe if Sauron didnt Attack Russia

Sauron's plan is a massive pincer attack, combined with a divide conquer approach, to defeat his enemies separately and without them being able to come to the others aid. It ingenious in its inception, yet poorly executed, except in the early stages of the Gondor and Dale offensives or ran into difficulties that Sauron couldn't plan for. Yes, he would have eventually won in a long war of attrition, with the military resources and manpower still available to him in Morder. However, by the time of the battle of the black gate, he only had Mordor and army in dol guldor to call on. As Northern powers of the free peoples had destroyed all five of his other armies operating in the north by that time, including the esterlings besieging dale and therefore free to cooperate with the remaining might of Rohan and Gondor, (combined would be anywhere from 10-20,000 book wise) , not destroyed at the black gate in any further military campaigns. Plus dol guldor would be destroyed a few days after battle of black gate. So although it would be a very long and bloody drawn out war, that Sauron would eventually win, free peoples have a decent chance of holding out for years and it wouldn't be quite a sure thing of victory for the dark lord 60/40, as he only have resources of Mordor to rely upon compared to the initial strategic plan of overwhelming brute force that went to hell in a hand basket above..

So what if 3000 years after the third age, Sauron tries yet again but this time has to face modern earth militaries? WW1, WW2, ColdWar, Today, take your pick.

Algorithm

He got stuck in the mud in Ukraine, because of out-of-gas.

Saruon weakness in the story is he is the "evil". He is the one that destroyed and defeated the Nomanorains by deception and mainplation. Also he was winning the fight when he came out in the last alliance. He can defeat in a single combat any of the armies of the west as superbeing. Even Nomanorain host cannot defeat him in fight. The fight was lost due to bad luck because he is the evil guy. His armies that where defeated not him. When he did fight he was hit with bad luck. Especially with yhe ring Saruon would be almost a Valar level of individual might. Saruon without the ring is far more powerful than any Barog (except tge lord if Barogs) and most dragons. He is far more powerful than Sumog dragon for example in a fight. But he alone can't conquer he needs his army. But interms of crushing a city or defense position or an army or individual heros non can stop Saruon himself. Saruon didn't fight Nomanorains host with his personal might as another can come and he specifically planned and wants to destroy the island. Saruon is like 10 Barogs on one plus very hard to defeat as he can't be killed and far more immortal than most non-Valar Anor and amongst most powerful even without the ring and downgrade sfter the destruction of the island. He has healing and regeneration too. He is like 1000 white Gandalfs in one at the least without a ring. He lecturely coukd destroy a fortress with a single spell attack. War of the last aillance was lost due to bad luck and war of the ring was lost to being too careful taking too long plus not fighting in person and not grading the moutain. If it wasn't for Saruon bad luck to defeat him free people need the Valrs intervention again. Many people things he was defeated in war if the ring. He was only defeated due to the ring and Hobbits. The seven engagements 6 of them where lost. The lonly moutain attack is very much was going to be a win. But even if all 7 are lost. It doesn't matter. He can keep attacking until eventually Red army style win. They cannot attack him especially when under multiple attacks and coukd fo very little collaboration. They can only defend. They are under his terms. His armies would eventually win a bit by bit. The even armies send where less than 1% of his military numbers and might of his armies. He is attacking a bit by bit. He lost because he represents evil. If he acted neutral and didn't change stuff , plus didn't demand worship and absolute authority, Saruon wouldn't be a DarkLord and so thus would win. Infact the free people might be (not evil) but bad side in the world. He could acted this as a goid start by going to fight the Dragon Sumog and return lonely Moutain to the Dwarfs in name of justice and defending the oppressed. More like how USA does stuff but even better by being genuine to it. If he twist justice and takes it lecturely and carry the back of good, focus on mondy and trade he would win.

@wulfheort8021

6 ай бұрын

Who on earth is Saruon? Is it maybe Sauron's downy brother? And what are Nomanorains? I have also never heard of Barogs nor of Sumog before. Are you drunk or drugged maybe? What is a non-Valar Anor supposed to be? They are called Ainur and those who arent Valar are Maiar. And Sauron is like 1000 white Gandalfs? What absolute nonsense is all of this. Please remove your comment, it's extremely shameful.

@ailediablo79

6 ай бұрын

@@wulfheort8021 !!!! It is lecturely miss spelling names of characters and things that have complicated spelling that is not part of the English language. Not to mention it is understandable as there is nothing else in tge story that would sound similar and very much anyone familiar with the story would understand. Also yes Sauron is way more powerful even without a ring or the ring than any dragon ever other than the big one Angalagon the Black. He is a one man army. A single balrog defeated a Dwarf kingdom. That monster is weaker than or near equal to a powerful fire flying big dragon. It has been defeated by Gandalf the gray. He has captured Gandalf before easily. So imagine how powerful he is before he had even a body in a still healing state. Now imagine how powerful he is at full power without a ring. That is alone enough to make him on the level of a Greek God like Poseidon or Zeus. He is so powerful am confident he can defeat both Superman and Darkseid at the sametime easily, without the one ring even. Add to that he is very much impossible to kill by a mortal unlike the balrogs. His immortality is stronger like Greek Gods in methodology, not like the elifs. Infact if it was for the stupid way he made the one ring in one if it is mistake features he would have no weaknesses and free people wouldn't have won Last Aillance or would have a ring to destroy to win War of the Ring.

@wulfheort8021

6 ай бұрын

@@ailediablo79 Literally*, not "lecturely". It's not complicated if the name 'Sauron' is LITERALLY mentioned in the title of the video. And if it's all so complicated, at least do the effort to look up the correct way to spell it before writing whole paragraphs about all of it.

@ailediablo79

6 ай бұрын

@@wulfheort8021 ok but refresh the page. Also am on my phone. I can't see the title while typing.

@wulfheort8021

6 ай бұрын

@@ailediablo79 Remembering or quickly going to Google to look it up should not be too difficult of a task.

And Sauron would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those fat, meddling hobbitses!

His military campaigns always failed. His great success? Bringing Numenor to it destruction without fielding a single orc. He should have patterned his later plans on that success. Hindsight.

@tiltskillet7085

6 ай бұрын

Not exactly in his wheelhouse after he lost the ability to take on a fair form. Would have needed to rely on servants to do the heavy lifting, and that would require trust. And they'd have to be both fair-seeming and extremely clever. Otherwise Sauron gets a result like he did with the negotiator who went to Dáin looking for information about Bilbo. However he did take this tack in a way in his manipulation of Denethor through the palantir. Not one bit as ambitious as making the entire navy of Númenor sail to their doom, but not a small thing either.

Great video!