As a paraglider pilot the only scary thing is not knowing whether the glider pilot has seen you, particularly head on. In the UK, a lot of paraglider pilots now fly with FLARM devices which I think is a good move in our congested skies. Sharing thermals usually isn't a problem because our turn radius is so much tighter.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

You haven't seen me wracking it up tight, stalling around a thermal! And yeah agreed!

@brendo3526

2 жыл бұрын

Yea Flarm is good and all but i always wonder what type of pilot i have incoming, i do it with paragliding pilots the difference is you guys move so fast, if you haven't clocked me then i don't get much time to react, wide turns in thermals are ok.

As a paraglider pilot, I thermalled to base once with 2 sailplanes. It was truely magic and the passenger in one was busy snapping photos of me the whole time. When my 3m/s thermal started pulling a bit too much as I neared the cloud, it was time to leave. I think the sailplanes intended to take it all the way to base. As a paraglider I found it very daunting to pull out of the 360 pattern and fly straight which would be through their 360. Thankfully, after a bit of arm waving, they recognised my intent and let me escape by adjusting their circle, they were 100 - 200ft below me but I was worried they'd catch me. As you know we can't point our noses down to escape cloud, so we collapse our wingtip "ears" to reduce the surface area and increase sink. I certainly didn't want to get into cloud with 2 sailplanes around. It was a great experience and one I will remember for years. A lot of us in the UK fly with FLARM thanks to a CAA rebate scheme.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Hey that’s awesome, thanks for sharing. Yeah we often go up to cloudbases!

@n2b998

2 жыл бұрын

Very good point. Essentially, it's a trap. This will happen often because paragliders usually outclimb gliders and gliders will climb up to cloud base. We have to maneuver to allow the paraglider to exit the climb safely.

One time in the south of Germany, I thermalled (in a glider) with an other paraglider. Thermalling went fine, we stayed opposite of each other, but then he left. Since his circle diameter is smaller and speed is so much lower, we would have gotten really close if I had not flown around him and then back to the thermal. It was fine, but an experience to share. So be aware that a paraglider leaving the thermal might cross your path, and keep good visual contact on them. -edit- Otherwise really cool flying together.

@n2b998

2 жыл бұрын

Good point.

I'm not surprised that paragliders outclimb gliders by climbing in the core. I have repeatedly experienced outclimbing modern sailplanes in a Grunau Baby, that sinks like a brick but thermals at 40km/h.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah although I reckon I can wrap it up pretty tight with my flaps!

@ronaldglider

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide Circle diameter is proportional to square of speed... paraglider at 30km vs glider at 80km: circle diameter is (8/3)**2 = 7.11 larger

@ronaldgadget

2 жыл бұрын

@Russell Phelan Please explain!

I love paragliding next to gliders. It is magnificent.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic - any close calls? or never been a problem?

@jirisilhan3094

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide Actually I consider glider pilots more competent. So I am not afraid they would endanger me at all. I always try to mark them the thermal core and I try to be predictable. When we are at the same level and I want to leave the thermal I make sure I am in their field of view.

We have rainbow lorikeets here in Australia. Super colourful bird, but very hard to see at any distance because they are small coloured patches, very bright, but small, so what you are saying there is spot on!

@PureGlide

Жыл бұрын

We have a few here too! Definitely haven’t seen any flying though :)

@justme.9711

Жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide What I mean is that, as you pointed out, a solid colour is much easier to see. I suppose that paras at eye level would be directly in a glider pilots field of view and unless thermalling, because of the gliders far superior air speed, sideward vision wouldn't be as relevant when looking out for parras.

Thermalling in a glider with a paraglider is usually not a problem as turning rate is similar with different radius of turn. It is usually a lot of fun. Unfortunately some not experience paraglider pilots sometimes change direction of turn to catch a core of thermal - it is very risky for them and also not conformable for a glider pilot. So dear paraglider pilots if you are in the same thermal please do not change direction of turn.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, and a good point! Cheers

Hi Tim, thanks for this really nice video on how to safely share the sky! As a former hangglider (now turned glider) pilot I have always enjoyed thermalling together with paragliders and gliders, but one thing always freaked me out: circling on opposite sides of the turn at the same altitude. Under my hangglider I can't see inside the turn circle, especially in steep turns. While glider pilots prefer to be on opposite sides of the turn because they can see eachother best, that puts a glider right in the blind spot of the hangglider. I always tried to end up turning tight inside the circle of the glider on the same side of the turn, so I could maintain visual contact with the glider. Thermalling speeds are typically a factor 2 different, so the difference in circling diameters is sufficient to maintain separation.

What you have to keep in mind is gliders and paragliders have differents blind spots due to position of the wing. So in thermals the lowest paragliders pilot have right of way. But on gliders its the opposite.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Nico, yes we touched on that with the talk with Patrick. Cheers!

I was out doing my first cross country powered fixed wing solo the other day. Your videos did come to mind since I was having to fly near clouds going over some mountains, and I was getting lift from the clouds. Was fun though and I'm glad to see after all the lockdowns I'm seeing the end at the tunnel with private pilots license in sight.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome to hear! Yeah the weather is the weather, it'll work for you no matter what you're in, so why not save a bit of fuel where possible?!

Amazing content once more, thank you!

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Holy cow! 😳 LoL I'm enjoying this one Tim!!!

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Excellent :)

I was flying at that Paragliding competition. Thanks for being so considered with the air space, was super cool to see you guys flying along and sharing the sky! :D

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Did you win?! That was a fun day eh

@yuss490808

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide it was my first paragliding comp. there were too many good pilots to compite against. 😅 it was an awesome experience, and the gliders made it even better! I personally didn’t feel in danger or so at any point even tho at times I’d be flying near gliders or vice-versa. So again thanks so much for being so considerate, hope to see you guys in the sky again soon 🙌

This was a really great video. Thank you for putting it together. I do hope you end up taking a tandem PG flight. I'd love to hear your reaction to it.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Edward, that's definitely the plan! Cheers

Brilliant ! Thank you for this ! My 2 cents' worth: once the visual is established, everything is pretty much ok. On my first proper attempt at XC, I ended up thermalling with a gaggle of gliders (about 8 of them 😳) and instead of the classic "staggered by turning speed" approach, I opted for "full speed on the Atos and try to align with them". This was because the gliders' turning circles were so tight that I felt I didn't really have much wiggle room in the centre, and felt more comfortable getting in line with the gliders. Also, due to the massive performance difference, I think we only have contact in thermals - the amount of "close contact" on the transitions/straight line flying is practically zero. That said - I'm so glad I've now got FLARM, and I certainly hope you gliders are using it AND keep an eye out for your display 😉 I find the skill level of glider pilots to be, on average, extremely high, and it shows in the air. Disciplined thermalling and a vertical stacking (and all the 3d anticipatory thinking that has to go into that) was second nature to all gliders pilots I've ever circled with. Paragliders - not always. As a hang glider, I've been told by paraglider pilots that, when we approach directly, head-on, at the same altitude, they have a really hard time seeing me, not quite as bad a gliders, but close. So I tend to do a similar "hello wave" with the wing, to show a bit of my underbelly. That seems to do the trick. Last but not least: I find that most paraglider pilots (who aren't used to flying, regularly, with hang gliders in close quarters) have very poor judgment with regards to our speed, especially on our banking turns. It must be several times worse with gliders; my banking turn speed can sometimes go up to 80, 85 km/h. I imagine gliders can *easily* break the 100 km/h barrier.

so be aware of fellow flyers at all times

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Always!

funny.. 12 hours ago I typed inn paragliders in the youtube search field for the first time in a long while.. and first vid in the subscription feed when I wake up is you having released something about paragliders.. You got good tracking software... :) ..

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Geir! Funny how that happens eh :)

There was 19 paragliding pilots in the air at the Kaimais that day. At the pub that evening everyone related it was a highlight of the day flying in the same thermals as you guys, thanks. Robbo

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I suspect when I arrived you were half way through launching, would have been more fun with all 19 up in the air!

Excellent to see that you are having this discussion with Paraglider pilots! 👍 The main problem is the big difference in speed. Minimum- Sink- Speed- Paraglider = 30 km/h; Glider = 74km/h (40knots). So around 2.5 times faster. This means to thermal together the circle radius of the Glider also needs to be 2.5 times larger, which (for small thermals) can mean the Paraglider is in lift while the Glider is in sink!

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah very true, although in practice it works ok usually.

Great video - wonderful idea to interview the parties, and *such* an important topic! @Patrick: Ja, flarm is heel belangrijk voor ons / We can see you from 2km or more, however with difficult backgrounds in mountains, Flarm is key to raise our situational awareness early on. @Pure glide "would like to visit Euope" -- you're invited to drop by LSZM! My practice: I scan the sky >95% of my time. When I see paragliders, I avoid them much as possible, especially flying along ridges the speed difference is too high to take any chances close to terrain. I avoid thermaling with paragliders if possible. Having a paraglider below me is an absolute nogo: They can climb faster than we can, they can't look up, we can't look down... Think about that! What do I mean with "If possible": when I am in urgent need of lift (eg. avoid outlanding), I will consider thermaling with a paraglider (not more than 2 in any case). I am fully aware that paragliders have no vertical steering capability, where we do. I think it is my responsibility to avoid, not the paraglider's. I think Patrick is correct about his "sitting duck" feeling. When getting close, I *always* wave at them with my arm, sometimes I get a response, sometimes I don't. Many paragliders in the Swiss Alps still fly without flarm (It is fortunately improving somewhat in last year). I can't stress enough that flarm on paragliders tremendously increases *their own* safety. What scares me the most: every few years I see a paraglider disappear into a cloud. I don't know what they are thinking. As Pure Glide mentions we often fly close to the cloud base, at high speeds. Guys, please, don't go into the clouds!

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ronald, I'll definitely get in touch if I'm over! Cheers for your comments

@jiuhuaqu372

Жыл бұрын

It's because we have slow speed, and can't dive very fast, sometimes we couldn't escape the clouds sucking us in. But gliders can just easily dive out.

WOW... How I can relate to THIS... In the early 90s I was towing paragliders over Jean Lake just outside of Vegas... Long story Short... It was way too close for my liking... Great stuff thanks for posting... 'Nuff said!!!... Dwight. Glendale Arizona USA...

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers Dwight! Hope you enjoy the interviews

@dwightbernheimer331

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide Absolutely, great subject, and at least I didn't get knocked out of the sky... Cheers mate.

As a paraglider i have thermaled often with gliders and once even with a RC plane. The only difficult situations i've encountered was when i was thermaling inside a group of gliders and wanted to leave the thermal to move on. Else i allways enjoied to observe the glider pilots and wave to them

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah leaving could be a bit tricky if there are too many gliders!

oh i could see my house in the first video, didn't expect that :D

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! not planned BTW :)

While I LOOOOVE seeing sailplanes from my paraglider, they also scare me quite a bit! They are soooooo fast compared to us and we can be hard to see from the wrong angle/background... My new wing is orange partly because of that reason and I've flown with FLARM for the past 2 years. The only reason I mind them getting close is that I don't know if they spotted me. So I appreciate it when they make it obvious they are avoiding me/flying around/over/under me.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think if we get a big horn we could toot to show we’ve seen you :)

@mcbrite

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide I'm pretty sure that would startle me even more! Imagine suddenly hearing a loud air horn while serenely flying around... 🤣

@StudentGoose

2 жыл бұрын

Orange is the best colour in my opion, and great to hear you are using FLARM as well!

@cabanford

2 жыл бұрын

I fly a hot pink + white Enzo for vis. Also FLARM (here in the Walliser Alps in Switzerland)

A good reason to promote the wider adoption of the OGN 900MHz system in addition/parallel to FLARM so that the low cost removes any price resistance to the use of Electronic conspicuity systems. Use of gateways or rebroadcast could tie the two together. The problem is only set to get worse with the presence of drones.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah almost, except gliders won't see those on their FLARM displays... so only useful for those on the ground doing ground tracking (or pilots running the cell tracking map on their phone)

@doningram3978

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide Tim, therein lies the problem. Whether I am flying a hang glider or sitting in a sailplane I would like to know what is heading towards me that I haven't noticed yet. Each system provides the capability to filter alerts to potential issues regarding immediate danger of collision so under these circumstances the more data points the better. The lower the cost of participation the better as the greater the chance of adoption. Many decades ago a young and irresponsible chap in a Mosquito, who shall remain nameless, was busily climbing the windward side of a cu , half in half out, only to see a Beech Barron tear thru the cloud next door. Could have been an ugly meeting of the minds if they had met in the midst of said cloud. Given that it was out in the MOFN, not an issue to annoy ATC with but the more units equipped with ECS the better. Lora based nodes are potentially less than $10, suited to battery operation & not subjected to FLARM patent issues, so quite promising.

I love all gliding things. So I'm not bothered at all. Especially when we have a chance to wave at each other in the sky and respect each other. I luckily had only positive encounters with gliders. Usually I'm keeping what I'm doing and the sailplane is going another trajectory due to our thight core. Same as said in the video. We coexist on a nice basis. IMHO There are still some disrespectful or unable people on both sides. It's not a definition of what they do as a sport..... Safe flights 🤠

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Well said, cheers!

Video Idea: How to get into the Hobby of flying gliders/sail planes... I'd love to know how to approach that, what costs to expect, how getting a glider to fly works (I assume not everybody buys an expensive Glider before they ever start flying) and all that good stuff! - I think one of the reasons it's such a rare hobby is that it is not very approachable! - Similar to how I thought as a child that paragliding is a Sport that's reserved for retired Lufthansa-Pilots... 😀

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

I've been thinking about that too for a video, it's a great idea! Cheers

I was coastal ridge flogging in my ridged wing hang glider and had a light engine aeroplane fligh directly underneath me. I don’t think he saw me at all. Scared the hell out of me.

A Video of paraglider pilots reacting to your footage would be very cool, maybe they could then analyse the situations quite a bit more.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that would have been good! Next time I’ll be more organised

While flying gliders over flat terrain, unless fighting to stay airborne, I prefer to go away from para- and hanggliders and find a new thermal for myself.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I tend to as well, especially if we're near the same height. Cheers!

The profile/visibility of glides scared me as a paraglider pilot. I see them often relatively late. Once I recognize them (and be sure that they recognized me) I'm happy to share the sky. I had only once a little shock moment with a glider. We were flying in a bigger group of paragliders in low thermal conditions close to terrain. This costs alot of awareness to ensure not to collide with other paragliders or the mountain. In such a situation it is really hard to spot a glider that join this thermal early. When this glider joined our group alot of paraglider pilots were shocked because they recognized the glider very late. I never experienced a wake turbulence from a glider... but wake turbulenes are an issue for paragliders, because our wings are not stable. For me as a light pilot who fly on the lower weight part of my glider the wake turbulence of tandem paragliders are allready intense. This is no problem if you expect them, but if you hit them unexpected it can be a challenge to keep the glider stable.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks for sharing!

@cabanford

2 жыл бұрын

I really doubt there is much tip vortex off of a glider - they're so efficient.

@michaegi4717

2 жыл бұрын

@@cabanford The "not much tip vortex" is relative to the weight. Compared to an Paraglider a glider plane is very heavy. In addition I'm not too sure about the airflow while steep turning in thermals. As a paraglider you really feel the difference of a normal paraglider wake toubulence and the turbulence of an tandem paraglider... but hence I never crossed a wake tourbulence of a glider plane I'm not sure about this.

@cabanford

2 жыл бұрын

@@michaegi4717 I fly comps on an Enzo 3 - there is never any issues with other comp wings turning in font. A loaded tandem doing hard turns slowly on the other hand can knock a wing quite severely. Although gliders are heavier, their wings are so efficient - means minor air disturbance.

@michaegi4717

2 жыл бұрын

@@cabanford Thank you for this insight. Now I'm not sure comparing a crossing Enzo with a turning tandem: Is it because the more efficient wing, the lower weight or the curve or slow flying? I would expect that each of this factors influence the vortex alot. How much of a difference did you experience between a normal paraglider (say Mojo) and a competition glider that crosses your path in a similar situation?

I’ve experienced heaps of wake turbulence, but I fly with close tolerances

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

In a paraglider? From gliders?

Are there any "Rules of Navigation" to obey... eg faster gives way to slower? Pass on the Left [Port], smaller give was to bigger? overtaking gives way to overtaken?

@PureGlide

Жыл бұрын

Yeah basically what you said. Planes give way to gliders. Gliders five way to paragliders. They give way to balloons :)

Last year when I was doing a 120km triangle on my paraglider in Austria, there was a glider pilot who was flying the same route with me for the last 40km or so, we climbed with each other, left, and rejoined with each other multiple times. In the end, we were circling in two different cores but are very close to each other. Eventually as it turned out his thermal was better than mine, so I flew to him, and he left when I was about to reach his thermal (we were at about the same altitude) And I feel sorry for him because he had to left the thermal......I hope it was not too rude for me to "take" his thermal from him😅. I think since gliders have really good glide ratio and speed, they can very easily just find another thermal to climb at somewhere else? If this is the case then I would feel much better! Because when we are doing cross country as paragliders, sometimes our options can become very limited, for example we have to climb at some places or else we wouldn't be able to reach the next thermal, so any thermal can be really important for us, I imagine gliders have a much easier time? But I don't know. Anyway, I have always enjoyed seeing gliders flying with us. And I think in terms of safety, we really don't have much choices because our speed is so slow compared to gliders, it's hard for us to manurer out of the course of a glider but a glider can easily avoid a paraglider if he sees the paraglider? This means that as long as you feel safe, you can do whatever you want, you can fly very close to me too if you feel comfortable, and I would enjoy it too! Always amazing to see how graceful gliders fly and want to say hi to the gliders I see in the air😃!

@PureGlide

Жыл бұрын

Hi yeah we do have the luxury of skipping thermals and going to the next one sometimes! That’s part of the art: deciding which ones to skip, and which ones to take. Of course sometimes we have to take every single climb too, but I suspect you aren’t flying in that weather!

How about fitting landing lights, to help being seen.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately we don't have the power to run standard landing lights (no engine = no alternator = no power generation). But we do have LED flasher lights becoming more popular, so that is happening. sotecc.de

As usual mate, great video. Can the para’s see ur hand signals?

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I have had them wave back! But you have to be close for that

@Robot_Child_Productions

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide that’s sick! Do you ever get scared? Like the only thing that’s keeping you alive is 2 wings and your ability on the stick

White color paraglider is invisible with clouds in the background. And we fly when there are white cumulus clouds.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Almost all gliders are white, but the studies have shown that solid white or black are the most effective colours for sailplanes in most conditions. I'll have to track down that study and make a video on it! Keep in mind we are all usually below the cumulus, the white bits are on top!

@finntheirish13

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide I remeber my grandfather telling me when I was learning to fly sailplanes in the early 2000's that white was the safest/ most visible color for airplanes. I have looked for reasearch or anything to back that up but I've never been able to find anything validating that. I'm not sure if it was just one of those things that got passed around in pilot circles or if it really was a study. I'd love to see if you can find anything on that! All of the reasearch I've seen has said bright green is the most visible color in terms of contrast and the ability to decern the color from a distance. Regardless, it would be cool to have a video talking about sailplane colors and why fiberglass ships are white while a lot of metal, fabric, and wood birds are painted fun colors. (I remeber asking my granddad that as a kid). Our glider club had a 2-33 with a big orange wing we called pumpkin, the 1-23 was yellow and my granddads skylark was a cream color, but all the glass ships were boring white! Darn fiberglass and it's intolerance to heat (among other reasons - easier to see cracks and damage... etc.)

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Here's one study! www.segelflug.ch/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/glider_consp_study.pdf

The video chapters are for another video.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks John, I'll fix that!

Hey Tim, I'm a student pilot in Whitianga (home in Christchurch) and I love every bit of flying I get to do. Is there any chance I could try flying a glider with you. Thanks

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah absolutely, I'm rostered on as instructor at our gliding club, come on out and try it out sometime! You can make a booking on our website. I'm away doing comps for another month or so, but will be back to regular instructing afterwards. I'm rostered on once or twice a month. And any other time we are flying we have instructors available: www.glidingmatamata.co.nz/members/roster/

As a paraglider the glider is hard to spot. Get some strong strope. VHF radio? Horn?

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

As mentioned in the interview, I'd love to fit some air horns to my glider!!

@Chris-kl7bi

2 жыл бұрын

@@PureGlide Might be helpful on outlandings, too, imagine a person or animal that appears last minute

Very interesting video. Nice to hear that paraglider-pilots in EU are starting to carry FLARM beacons. On the topic of the colour of the paraglider-wing, you mentioned 'white' as a good colour. I think this is actually the worst! As they will blend in with clouds but also with snowy mountains! I actually had a near-miss with a paraglider a few years ago, who was using a white wing: kzread.info/dash/bejne/pqysr5eAac68obQ.html I think fluorescent orange is by far the best visual option. Interesting to also read the comments, about hanggliders and paragliders and that we (as sailplane pilots) would be in their blindspot if we thermal on the opposite of the circle.

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah in conditions with a lot of snow around, white might not be the best colour. But in most other situations, solid white or black are the best according to a study I saw many years ago...

I might have hit a paraglider once... ...on the ground (with my fist).

@PureGlide

2 жыл бұрын

Lol best not to do either

Paragliders remind me of cyclists on the roads. Enough said.

@PureGlide

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Although it's very easy to go around them :)