Quality Management rule: "The Prime is responsible for the Sub"..., always... If GD bought junk from Lippert for any reason (poor or no engineering, "Lowest Bidder Rule" or any other dummy reason, at the end of the day, GD is responsible, towards the end customer. "Garbage built with no pride"...

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

My exact thought as well mon chum! 🙂

I just purchased a new TT and did have an RV inspector go over it prior to signing on the line. She informed me of a few small things that I had corrected and verified prior to any monies being forked over. I would have never seen them myself, great investment.

You know Blue Ox, look at these group of professionals.. I totally forgot about weight distribution, spread that weight out, not just the front under storages that the dealership loves to point out, they need to inform their clients to tote their items up and place it more from tip to stern and not just up front. Has Blue Ox thought about a “How to guide” you know put out a quick reference guide for KZread for newbies to watch and learn and try not to kill their RV’s ? Just a thought.. I can’t get enough of these videos you put out.. excellent job you both!

You are so correct. Don't be pointing the finger at the supplier. We had to have a LCI tech come to our house to do repairs on our Fifth Wheel. His words were exactly " we only build the frame to the specs that the manufacturer says, then the manufacturer puts whatever they want on the frames ". He was there replacing all the Spring Hangers on our 2021 Grand Design Reflection 303rls Fifth Wheel. He said that at the end of the day these manufacturers skip corners and put whatever they want on the frames. Which isn't right. Maybe one day the RV industry will be regulated like the auto industry. But also when the manufacturers know very well that they have issues with RVs that they have produced. These manufacturers need to stand up and stand behind their mistakes. All RVs are going to have some sort of issue. But a good company would stand behind the product. We weigh our Fifth Wheel regularly and keep the weight distribution evenly. All RVers should take their RV across the Cat Scales often just to keep a eye on the weight of their RV and to keep yourself in check.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Accountability is not part of the RV industry dictionary it seems 🙄

Pierre, loved what you said about frames! That is 100% true my friend. We are seeing a ton of Grand Design cheerleaders that are trying to blame it ALL on Lippert and don't won't to hold Grand Design responsible for anything. We battle this everyday on our other FB site. By the way, Laurel is a rock star! -Pete West (Wests on the Move)

@angie-xy5sf

Ай бұрын

uhhh nope ITS GD. They are ones that approved the plans and specifications for their products. They are not regulated so they can use popsicle sticks but its their fiduciary duty to inform consumers on warranty, usage, weight etc. so as long as Lippert followed the specifications its Gd responsibility .

"you were leaving when?" 🤣😆🤣 - possibly your best line but "ah, it's nothing" is pretty close.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

😉😁

C4BO- nice unit

Great job as always! Glad to see those folks finally found something… you have done a couple for them. They know the value of an inspection!!

It feels like the consumer is the one at fault for buying an RV while the industry is in such poor shape.

@hasonlavajunk9774

2 ай бұрын

Those who bought in 2021-2022 didn’t know the industry was in such bad shape.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

That's where the manufacturers took advantage of their "demand" position, then greed and opportunities followed through 😕

@angie-xy5sf

2 ай бұрын

i went yesterday to look at 5th wheels. OMG so much junk crap. thin plastic behind stove YES PLASTIC cheap crap. but gotta get out apt find one. so tomorrow Outdoor RV. seems better than rest. dont tell me Brinkley either. Anyway i told salesperson i having an inspection and she said WELL WE HAVE A CHECKLIST THAT YOUR INSPECTOR HAS TO HAVE OR DO BEFORE HE/She can get on property. F THEM F THEM. you lost my business. shady crap

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

You could have spell the whole word I would have agreed with you more🤣 I'm proud of you...more people need to stand up to their basic rights 😊

C4BO Thank you for addressing frame flex responsibility. Since this issue surfaced, I have been befuddled that most social media influencers have looked to Lipert for answers. My understanding and experience suggest that the engineering teams at the RV manufacturer design these frames and contract with Lipert to manufacture the parts to the specifications of the RV manufacturer. If the frames are being built to the specifications provided to Lipert, then, in my opinion, Lipert is not responsible for this problem. During my career, I oversaw many projects outsourcing backroom administrative activities. I made sure any manager responsible for the function when performed in-house, understood that they were equally responsible for the function even after it was outsourced because we set the performance standards regardless of who actually did the work, and this is no different.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

I'm with you 💯

Great info Pierre...I have belonged to several FB groups to check out what owners were saying about issues from Leisure, Outdoors RV, Grand Design, Winnebago, Airstream and the loyalty of some owners is unreal...they are totally blind.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Totally drinking the juice blindly...🤪🥴

I feel like a kid in elementary school at @9:26 when Pierre is asking what to do about folded seals. "I KNOW! PICK ME! PICK ME! I KNOW THE ANSWER!!! WE USE THE STICK TO UNROLL THEM!!!" Hahaha! Another fantastic inspection!

4CBO

I still think some of the older rigs are so much nicer and better assembled than the new ones. Looks like a very through inspection, and happy to see it pass so well.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We appreciate you 🙏

Not a bad coach for a 2016. Had better bones than some of the new ones Blue Ox has inspected!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Right??

Thanks Blue Ox! And thank you Pierre for your educational tips in your videos! Thanks to those tips and watching how meticulously Laurel checks every inch of the inside, I was able to conduct my very own sniff test on a unit I'm thinking about. Pretty proud of myself lol I found the bottom of the bedroom slide, just in the outside corner, was mush, totally gone. Bought the moisture meter on your list and had it and a few other simple tools in my purse 😅 Imagine the look on Salesguy's face when I find the mushy spot and break out my moisture meter! Good fun! I also found an evaporating puddle of water on that same side (off door side) in the pass through. Clearly some water leakage issues! I also realized, other than the roof and slide boxes, I'm not sure what places need sealant and what doesn't. There were a few seams I looked at and wondered hummm does that need sealant? More to learn lol yay! I found some other little things, like loose trim and the entry door wasn't lined up-no gap on top and big gap at the bottom so all the icky bugs can come in... so while the unit might be a bust, I'm still patting myself on the back for learning what I have learned and finding what I found 😊 I can only imagine how much more you two could have found! I appreciate the education! Keep up the good work!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We're proud of you! Proves you listen 😉

Oops, you missed the miss match on the exterior shower door paint scheme. Just flip the assembly if that’s possible.

Great video again! I would be a bit nervous buying this RV with the roach hotels, just because you didn't see them doesn't mean they aren't there. Otherwise this looks like a great RV.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

I'll give you that 😏 😉

Great Vid . . C4bo!!

Is it just me ? Or do I expect too much ? . A close friend would buy a pop up trailer and he would go through it from bumper to bumper and do all the repairs before he would sell it , he did it as a hoppy and make a few bucks .How come the RV dealers don't do this ? If I went to a RV dealers and found a RV that I want to buy , I would ask the sales person when did this RV come in , then I will get a inspection , and after the inspection was done and its going to be 2 or weeks for repairs to be done , then I be asking the sales person why are you trying to sell this crappy RV that's not ready to be sold yet . They got repair people to go through the RV before they try to sell it . I be out of there so fast

@kal7049

2 ай бұрын

RV dealers don’t repair used RVs before they stick a For Sale tag on it. They show it as is. They are hoping people don’t catch the problems. It’s another way the dealer saves money.

C4BO! Great video! Thanks for sharing!

A good stow & go!!

Great stow and go

Love your videos !!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We appreciate you 🙏 ❤️

Pierre and Laurel, you can teach a course on rv inspection. I always thought Newmar was top quality but now I don’t have confidence in any rv. Still looking hope you’re back in the south when I find one!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We'll fly anytime for you guys 😉. For a used unit, it was beautiful 😍

Good job again!! Y'all are amazing!!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We appreciate you 🙏

Thank you for these eye opening detail.

@blueoxontherun9188

Ай бұрын

Wait! We have another one coming on close people around us "an Endorsed" team going through this as we speak. Coming soon 🙄

C4BO !

Like the stow 'n go! Unit looks good with the minor issues fixed.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Customer told me...$20k later it cost the dealership to get this ready! You still wonder if an inspection is worth it 😁

Good explanation for blame

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

People are always quick to point blame at someone else right?

Both of you are the greatest! I am not even a camper but totally enjoy your inspections!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Time for you to join the lifestyle on the side !?😊

@ka1ze749

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 who wuda thought pointing out the obvious was so difficult?? and.. "you want to leave when?"

Seems outdoor shower door on is upside down, you can see the paint pattern is not matching on the video, I think it needs to be reinstalled correctly. What do you think?

We don't put roach traps in our coach, don't have a roach problem. The only time you put roach trap or rodent traps down is when you have a problem. "Tell Tale' sign?

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

That was my fear...didn't see nothing all day or in any trap. Hopefully it was OCD freak of insects

Yeah Newmar!

Great video guys. We were in champions run last week. And we saw you guys. We were in the momentum by the pool. We waived at each other multiple times. Love all your videos.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Why didn't you stop in 🙄 I remember your rig 😉

@LeslinAdventures

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 we wanted to but, everytime we tried you guys were talking with ppl and we didn’t want to interrupt.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Next time stop being strangers 😉 If you always wait, making sure everything is ready...you'll never be ready. 🤙

@LeslinAdventures

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 😂 Yesss definitely Safe travels and see you on the road.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Right back at you!

Totally agree on what you are saying about the RV Industry, Get educated about the Rv industry to understand , before making false accusations. Red Flag on the Roach motels traps, I would pass

That Dutch Star is a very good coach!!! That would be a buy from us !!!!🎉

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Me too. Customer told me the dealership ended up spending $20k to get the unit ready to deliver. From windshield to engine mechanical work done at freightliner. I think he justified his inspection cost 😉

just keep speaking the truth

I like newmars they are really nice I love the Dutch stars especially

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Me too 😉

Great job guys!!! Good comints on the frame issues, your right this is a real blame game going on . Also you guys don't look a day over 30yrs. old! Just saying 😅.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣 thanks for the 30 comment...she's going to love that comment 😊😉

❤

Heated floors 🥰

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Yeah!!! Toasty ☺️

I want to live in that coach!

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Me too...it is a nice unit. The owner told me the dealership had to send it to freightliner for over $4k in repairs and total of near $20k to close the deal with them. Valuable inspection 😉😊

C4BO

What about the roof? I have never seen an inspection without a major roof evaluation.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Because it is close to perfect. Fiberglass roof are typically in relatively good shape. Sealant here and there . Nothing worthy for showing 😊

@richardnelson488

2 ай бұрын

I don't agree. An inspector is hired to go over the entire RV. The roof is the most important part and I don't recall you ever inspecting a roof.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

We do on every unit...you're trying to have a "gotcha" moment 🤣 have a nice day anyway 🙄

I feel really bad for the owner's ! I know exactly what to look for and I've seen it quite often and it's a deal breaker for sure ! While Lippert is Culpable, IMHO Grand Design or whatever brand needs to step up and fix permanently or buy back without an NDA because they by default certified the frame was built correctly when they built on it and shipped it to the dealership !! GD has been putting 2 lag bolts on the front sidewalls where it's connected to the frame when there are holes for 5 !!! On lippert's part, some of the welds I've seen are terrible with a lot of porosity. Just a matter of time !! I've got questionable welds on my own GD Travel Trailer.... I've developed my own checklist for the signs of excessive frame flex/ failure. Nobody is going to sell one of my clients an RV with frame issues if I can help it !

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

My prediction, this will happen to every Brand that decided to purchase the cheapest frames from any suppliers. To your point, I agree that the manufacturers of RV are the ultimate responsible for all these issues and should compensate or recall any trailers they sold from customers. Suing their suppliers, for lack of quality (porous welds) or bolts missing, to name just a few problems, is not the consumers problem right? Accountability from any manufacturers the consumer bought from, is and should be the first responder to those immediate and upcoming issues. Everyone is deflecting the problem to somebody else. I'm glad to see your dedication and knowledge for looking into such hidden problems that most inspectors don't have a clue of such issues, as they were never thought to analyze and look for 😉. Great job and thanks for chiming in. Hopefully people will read you as well 🤙

@CompleteRVInspectionsConsultin

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 I agree ! I've seen it on more than just GD's !!

@CompleteRVInspectionsConsultin

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 I inspected a 2016 XLR last year with suspected frame issues. I straight up asked the seller if it had any frame problems and he said NO.... The inspection was completed at a frame shop ! Lol They might have done a repair but the damage was already done as far as water intrusion and delam from broken seals in critical areas.

The biggest con job in the fifth wheel RV frames is the six point leveling. I've pulled and had built many a trailer. A proper frame that's built strong enough does not need six point leveling. If you stop the middle jacks from working and take measurements just as the front and back jacks touching the ground. Now level the unit but watch the middle of the trailer frame. Oh you notice that each end will raise up but the middle will drupe a couple of inches. Why? Humm. Maybe it's because the frame is not strong enough to level the unit without that center jack. Now it's just my humble opinion but the frame is not heavy enough for the weight it's carrying. But the RV industry sold six point leveling as the hottest thing going. When it's needed because the frame is under built. No thanks I'm not going to take a trailer like that. Maybe it's just me and maybe I could be wrong. But after 50 years of dealing with all kinds of trailers I don't think so. But it's just my opinion for what it's worth. Good videos guys keep it up.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

💯 accurate Manufacturers would be pissed if I stated that on video 🤣🤣

@fatotis6273

2 ай бұрын

Doesn't have 6 point leveling going down the road! If it needs it parked, it dang sure won't hold together going down the road.

@markthompson2079

2 ай бұрын

@@fatotis6273 going down the road the main load is over the axles and on the King pin. Not so much on the back end of the trailer. To a large degree your right but when you look at these frames and see what they have under the axles it's does have some extra steel. But going down the road places the stresses in more of a different area than leveling does. Most commercial trailers pulled by tractors or prime movers for our Aussie friends are not leveled by jacks at the rear of the trailer. The jacks are at the front and are co-axelial or both go up and down together. On the class 5 & 8 trailers that are used in other types of commercial applications suck as Geo work only level at each corner. Why? Oh could it be they are heavier built?? Naw that wouldn't make sense would it. Keeps for heavy haul have no leveling at all. Although they may have hydraulic steering to help them make turns. Heavy haul trailers have very little flex which is why the song give me 40 acres to turn this rig around comes in to play. Most trailers have some flex and can twist which helps them to turn when your pulling them. Here's another thing you may have seen going down the road. A spread Axel flat bed trailers usually aluminum ones to keep weight down will look bowed up in the middle when empty. Why make it bow upward in the middle?? So when it's loaded it sits level. That gives it the strength to flex when loaded without breaking. Most class 5 & 8 trailers even dry box ones have some bow to them. Dry and refer trailers do not show it as much because the ridged box helps it with ridgity. When I did extreme heavy haul for the government the tractor was a true beast. Two steering axles, three drive axels and a show boat. It had a V 12 under the hood with a 17 automatic transmission that I hated. With a crap load of jeeps at each end of the trailer we hauled 80 to 100 tons with it. Those trailers were so ridged you had to have 80 acre's to turn the damn thing around. The only good thing was we didn't stop at the chicken coop or weigh stations. Our escorts took care of that because we didn't stop till we had to or we hit our lay over spot. But my point is that the frames in my humble opinion are not built heavy enough. Lighter trailers cost less. In most companies costs will win.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

It's all about the money and greed for them manufacturers 😉

Very nice coach for a '16. My only reservation is that I would want the engine looked at before purchasing. On the plus side, it is always a pleasure to see Laurel hold her water.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

He had up to $20k of our findings paid by the dealership before leaving with it 2 weeks later.

@robertroth287

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 Guess he was very happy with your pre-flight check. Well done.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

🤣🤣 he's now ready for takeoff 😁

@angie-xy5sf

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 after inspection and then dealer says he fixed it. how do customers really know problems were fixed?

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

You printed out you CRL list as you verified and cross checked every details that required to be addressed at moment of pick up. It's not done, you're not taking delivery 😉. Come back when it's done to sign paperwork when everything is to your liking

They should be using 3ms best double sided tape that is used for airplane applications. but they use crap tape. that dries out in first few years and lets go. Just to save money...

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Greed is the driving force in this industry...there's no intent of quality or satisfaction in their approach. They try to compromise with "service" after you bought! It doesn't make their units any better built 🙄. You are totally right about their intent. Materials used to be economically profitable. Period 🤨

4cbo

Off topic, but why does the access door behind you (during the frame discussion) have the paint reversed/upside down?

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

No clue how and why 🙃

I am not a RV person. I follow the site from South Africa just because it is interesting. One question I have to ask regarding this ongoing frame flex problem within the RV industry. Do all owners keep their RV loaded as per specs on their RV? After watching some RV channels some owners appear to put so many items into their RV which results in the RV being overweight. If your RV is overweight from adding items to your RV then whose blame is it when frame flex occurs? Not taking sides just a question because some RV owners say they can only add a small amount of weight to their RV before reaching the manufacturers maximum loaded weight. I have only seen very few utubers taking their unloaded RV for weighing then take the loaded RV for weighing to find out if their RV's are within loaded limits.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Most RVers and salespeople have NO clue about weight distribution or weight management 🤔...to your question, you are right 😉. Probably 90% of bigger RVs, 5th wheels in particular, are overloaded because of ignorance, lack of knowledge or assumption because of the available room to store "stuff"... From the manufacturer's point of view, these were built for weekends getaway. Not bringing half of ones house and garage belongings on every trip. But, times have change and manufacturers might have to revise their structure to adapt to this new Era and habits of people's way of traveling maybe 🤔

@brianbarbarich1401

2 ай бұрын

@blueoxontherun9188 Thank you for the reply. Keep up the good channel. Cheers from Durban, South Africa.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Cheers from Florida. Leaving today for the world's capital of the RV industry, Elkhart Indiana. Or what I like to call, the incestual city of Indiana where everyone jumps from one ship to the other constantly 🙄 so the crappy workers are at any point in time working for any manufacturers on a rotation basis...hard to control quality for that matter 😉 Everyone knows everyone and might even be related to each others...

@brianbarbarich1401

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 Safe travelling. 🙏

@brianbarbarich1401

2 ай бұрын

@blueoxontherun9188 I know nothing about RV's because they are not popular in South Africa. I was a seafarer for a long time and know that if you overload a ship or do not distribute the weight of the cargo in correct positions on a ship then permanent distortion could happen to the steel Hull of the ship. In extreme cases the ship's steel Hull can crack open due to excess stresses and the ship can sink. Just relating this to what you have mentioned about some RV owners fulling their RV up with so much stuff to the point that it is overloaded and results in all sorts of structural damage when riding on uneven or bumpy roads.

Wow hope they didn't buy it. Yalls great.

So Lippert don’t design any of the frames

How many frame flex problems have they had in motorhomes this has nothing to do with frame flex

Bad frame welds: Lippert is at fault. Bad superstructure welds, missing bolts, and overweighing units out of spec: Grand Design et al. are at fault. Refusing to provide ANY service after the sale: dealers nationwide. Not weighing their rigs and potentially overloading trailers: consumers are to blame. Regardless, please stop using the industry jargon. It isn't the less-innocuous "frame flex". It is frame FAILURE. Cut and dry. Gorgeous coach btw.

@blueoxontherun9188

2 ай бұрын

Frame Flex is a publicity stunt word 🤔 just to draw attention probably? But it works 😉

@Premier-Media-Group

2 ай бұрын

@@blueoxontherun9188 true.

Oh, please, until every one of these manufacturers disclose to the end-user, including flipper the frame failure maker, as well as scam design and others, how much weight can go in the bedroom slide, how much weight can go in the front storage, how much weight can go in the basement, how much weight can go in the garage, how much weight can go in each of the slides That come out on the kitchen and living room side. Until they actually start disclosing this data they can all go pound sand along with everybody else trying to blame a user. They are all in collusion. Bunch of lying deceiving hypocrites like that cruisin guy. And more deception when people say well Lippert only gives the frame to grand design and they decide why doesn’t Lippert provide all the data on that exact frame to the end user consumer for all the data points and weight and stress so that they are well informed before they buy the stupid thing, stop all of this deflection. They are all in this together.. all Lippert has to do is refuse to send any more frames to that manufacturer and the issue is done. And yes, I am a pilot so I know all about center of gravity and figuring out weights before any takeoff, including all passengers and where are the balances as well as what weight goes where. And you know who gives us that Cessna the manufacturer that’s who. A lot of these people are just dense and have no clue.

Only a fool would shower going down the road

c4bo

It does not matter who is at fault! It matters who accepted the frame for assembly. If the frame meets design specs, it is the designers fault. If the frame does not meet design specs, it is the frame makers fault. But who really cares? The RV manufacturer builds and warrantees the vehicle. The RV manufacturer is responsible. Fault is the financial settlement. And is irrelevant to the end customer.

Oops, you missed the miss match on the exterior shower door paint scheme. Just flip the assembly if that’s possible.

C4BO

C4BO

C4BO

C4BO

C4BO

C4BO

C4BO