ERRATA 3:51 I line 3 in the second code snippet is supposed to be `b = "newname"` (thanks VVill!) 1:02 Go is not object oriented, my mistake (I suppose I saw 'interfaces' and extrapolated from there) I'm delighted

@w1keee

Жыл бұрын

you should pin this

@sohn7767

Жыл бұрын

Pin errata

@klikkolee

Жыл бұрын

"object-oriented" means different things to different people. Newer languages tend to be ones which meet some peoples' definitions of object-oriented and not others'. Personally, I am very strongly attached to what I understand to be more classical understandings of OO -- from before C++ got popular. That older notion focuses on encapsulation inheritance of behavior, and that aligns very strongly with Go's interfaces and Rust's traits. Java, C#, etc are based on a kind of reimagining of OO, which was popularized by C and C++ and which creates a lot of the common problems people now associated with the phrase "object-oriented"

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@sohn7767 Thank you for the reminder - youtube removes the pin when I edit it!

@nishanth6403

Жыл бұрын

@@klikkolee "which was popularized by C and C++" Wdym C ? C is purely procedural. Also I think you are tried to imply 'abstraction' there. I think inheritance was always the most error and headache inducing, despised feature of OO besides abstraction and by a long shot, encapsulation. I was surprised to find that rust supported inheritance with traits, that's one OO feature that I didn't want in rust but yeah.

“A fast executing language that crashes all the time is like a supercar… that crashes all the time” -0atman 2022

@ojonathan

Жыл бұрын

taking from another perspective, you can only crash a supercar one time, and if you live, you learn a lesson, the same cannot be said about C, if the stress of crashing hundreds of times doesn't kill you, you may eventually learn a lesson

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Tattoo right there

@ataraxianAscendant

Жыл бұрын

this is my favourite quote from any of his videos, hands down

@guilherme5094

Жыл бұрын

@@ataraxianAscendant I totally agree!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@ataraxianAscendant so happy with , I hope my mum likes my new tattoo /s

Alright that's it, I'm learning Rust. That's the first time I've ever felt happy reading a compiler error.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

YES! I'm excited for you! Start here, check the whole playlist kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZJyMsMZvqJzZitY.html

"Rust has an algebraic type system, and if you know what that is, you already know you want it in your language." no statement exists that is more perfect

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Mandatory feature.

@Yotanido

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate Absolutely. I honestly wonder why it isn't more common. Actually, I wondered that before I even knew there were languages they had them. This was my immediate thought when I heard about enums for the first time...

@shreyasjejurkar1233

Жыл бұрын

I don't understand this!?

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@Yotanido IMO I suspect it's because of the fashion for OOP. You THINK you don't need enums if you have inheritance.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@shreyasjejurkar1233 The statement or algebraic type systems? Re-watch my video for an explanation of Sum and Product types

To anyone starting out with rust: dont let the immature ecosystem scare you from using it . Unless you’re writing extremly critical enterprise software, the most popular library for the thing you want to do will have everything you will ever need

@parlor3115

Жыл бұрын

Meanwhile Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft are all using Rust in there enterprise software...

@tjgdddfcn

Жыл бұрын

@@parlor3115 by that i meant that if you want to write enterprise software purely with rust, the most popular library might not suit your needs and you would need to make the functionality yourself. But if you have the resources to do it or just want to use rust here and there, use it

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'd hesitate to even call it 'immature' at this point! There are the same number of packages on crates.io as there were in npm in 2013 - I was a web developer then and we sure thought it was mature and the de-facto standard! XD

@AndrewBrownK

Жыл бұрын

The quality of serde and tokio have blown my mind

@beebakrizzle

Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately where I would need it most (for web3 stuff), there isn't a good crate with full functionality and responsive contributors at the moment. That's why I'm still using Go even though I sacrifice some performance. EDIT: found ethers-rs which comes close, need to look into it.

Go cannot be a better c++, a language with a GC is fundementally solving different problems. Otherwise you could argue Java or c# is a better c++.

@sohn7767

Жыл бұрын

Go isn’t even primarily a systems programming language. Sure it can do some of that, but it’s most useful for web backend

@WizardofWestmarch

Жыл бұрын

@@sohn7767 yeah I agree. Mind you I'm in the camp that a required GC precludes being a systems language (an optional one like D is fine since it gives choices)

@zperk13

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was thinking "yeah sure" when he called Zig a better C, but... Go being a better C++... ehhh

@ccgarciab

Жыл бұрын

I've been told that Java was sold as a better C++ at the beginning, so maybe not too far from the truth. But you're right in that GC really does separate languages fundamentally

@NoName-zr7rz

Жыл бұрын

I'd say Go's biggest feature has to be its ability to replace node.js severs (abominations) without being much slower

Even if you do like dynamic language’s ability to just set something without specifying the type, Rust also lets you do that through type inference, which is pretty much having a cake (being able to define stuff without worrying much about specifics) and eating it too (it’s still static typing and you get all its benefits)

@KohuGaly

Жыл бұрын

Even more important is the fact that Rust has enums and traits. There genuinely are cases where the type should be "dynamic" at runtime, be it from a set of known variants (enum) or generic based on common interface (generics + traits). The problem with dynamic types ala python/ruby is that they go too far.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

And you can even do Dyn stuff if you want!

@wumwum42

Жыл бұрын

also because of .into() you often dont have to worry about choosing a convert function. Honestly Every staticly language should have something like the From trait.

@heater5979

Жыл бұрын

Type inference is not the same as dynamic typing in languages like Javascript. Sure Rust can guess a type from how you use that thing later in your code. But the type is known and fixed at compile time. By contrast in a dynamically typed language the type of a named thing can be changed as the program runs. Which might seem convenient sometimes but can also make it hard to figure out what is happening at run time and does a good job of buggering up performance.

@upgradeplans777

Жыл бұрын

@@heater5979 You are right, of course. But I don't see where you disagree with kat 🙂 You mention two characteristics of dynamic types: no type signatures needed, and mandatory RTTI (runtime type information). kat was simply saying they liked having the first one without the inconvenience of the last one. I agree with both of you on that... Rust has RTTI as well in a couple different ways, dyn traits being one of them. It is just not mandatory. Imho, idiomatic rust only has types signatures as part of function signatures, inferring the entire function body, which it is really good at.

“A fast executing language that crashes all the time is like a supercar driven by Richard Hammond” -Jeremy Clarkson

@laundmo

Жыл бұрын

"Hammond you blithering idiot"

@squishy-tomato

Ай бұрын

"If I had asked Richard Hammond what he wanted, he would have said more airbags." -Jeremy Ford Clarkson

I've started my first project in Rust because of you! Thanks for spreading the word about Rust

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I am so glad to hear it, this is my goal!

@sigh.sy.s

Жыл бұрын

What’s the project?

@2raddude

Жыл бұрын

My reply keeps getting deleted :( I am going to mis-spell things to get around the filter. Sorry for the stroke: It's a better s0ptify analysis tool. Gives you more ifno than exitsing onez by uzing files from GDPR data request. Can get all podcats/snoggs you've listend to for lifetime of acct and a lot more cool listning data. If I type more I am afraid this comment will get hidden

@2raddude

Жыл бұрын

KZread won't let me post a reply about this. @No Boilerplate can you see the hidden comments?

@theroboman727

Жыл бұрын

@@2raddude ive ran into the problem of replies getting like, shadow removed a few times as well. It might be that your comment contains some blacklisted word, or that youtube thinks youre a bot or something because you didnt watch any of the video before commenting (clearly youtube's comment bot prevention is still very bad though)

I used to be primarily a C programmer, a little bit of x86 ASM, and C++. I remember seeing videos like this and "C turned 50 today, so I decided to learn Rust" by Low Level Programming, and wondering what all the fuss was about. I eventually decided to give it a try, and it quickly became my favorite programming language. To me, it feels like what C++ should have always been. I know you made another video about this, but it really feels like in Rust I can focus on actually solving a problem instead of remembering to check for nullptr and use copy methods, all without introducing any runtime overhead. I write some code, cargo check, cargo build, then move on to the next problem. I don't need to study a method for an hour to make sure I didn't just implement RCE.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Isn't it lovely! I'm having such a great time programming again :-)

@nicktreleaven4119

Жыл бұрын

If you use the reference counting types then there is runtime overhead. Probably other things too.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@nicktreleaven4119 Hi Nick, that a Cornish name? I'm from Cornwall! Anyway, you're right that Rc/Arc add a small amount of overhead, but most of the time we don't use them, Rust's normal ownership semantics works great 99% of the time. However, even when we have to use them (shared mutable state for example) Rust is SO FAST that honestly unless you're comparing it to manual memory management in C++, Rust will still be faster. By the way, you can still pass around a raw pointer in Rust, just like in C++, and it's just as unsafe ;-) On pure mathematical benchmarks, its something like: C - 1x Rust - 1.1x Go - 2x Java - 4x Javascript 4x (yes I know, a trillion dollars of optimisation has made js as fast as java I was surprised too) Ruby - 20x Python - 80x So if you're comparing Rust to, say, Python, that ~77x speed bump covers a lot of sins! XD

@nicktreleaven4119

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate yes Cornish but I'm from London. Yes rust is fast and it's probably great for when you only need unique ownership. I just think reference counting is slow because accessing memory is slow. But it's still a good option. Decent Garbage Collection is typically faster but tends to use a lot more memory for efficient collections. Last I heard rust didn't support tracing GC. But it is a great language, I hope they can improve it even more (e.g. for generic async functions).

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@nicktreleaven4119 Amazing, I'm Cornish but living in London! What a small world. Yeah, Rc is slow, if you use it. Rust's ownership has zero cost, ie nothing happens at runtime, the compiler's proved you've never used a reference after it has been freed etc etc. Best of both worlds, with no, as you say, heavy GC. Makes it trivial to run Rust on embedded devices or low ram environments (such as in-browser). Have you seen my other videos? Not having a GC is a very unusual thing, and the way Rust solved memory safety accidentally gave it superpowers, here's the video where I explain this: kzread.info/dash/bejne/YqZ-m5arksfalag.html

_"Rust might not be the language you wanted, but it might be the language you need"_ ~ Great Explanation

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Thank you. Go, Rust, and Zig are not enemies. They are friends! Its interesting that you see Go as a replacment for C++. While it was designed as one, I tend to use Go where 10 years ago people would have used scripting languages: simple CLI apps, webservers, small tools. I also lean towards it for prototyping or 'throw-away' code, because the Go compiler's incredible speed makes iteration faster there. I use Rust where I need performance or safety and can afford to write from scratch. When I write Rust code, I'm confident that it's correct. In general, it's my preferred language for hobby projects. Rust also has best-in-class documentation, dependency management, and publication tooling. It's my personal favorite, so that's a tiebreaker. I don't use Zig (much, yet!), but when I do, it's where the pre-existing infrastructure expects C and C's conventions (i.e, in the world of device drivers, syscalls, and OS internals). Zig is still a bit immature, but the project is rapidly improving. Like it or not, the world we live in is built on 50 years of C, and not everything can or should be rewritten in Rust. Zig helps bridge that gap. The Zig community is incredibly generous w/ their time and expertise, too. They've helped both the Go & Rust projects, despite being significantly smaller.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

You're right, I shouldn't have pitted these languages against each other, especially as I am not expert in them. I hoped to make it clear that I too love them all! (but I REALLY like writing correct code, so Rust is my fav!)

@devnexen

Жыл бұрын

🙂 "Excuse me !" I thought, GC not GC they do not play in the same field regardless. However I would not write a microservice in C++ perhaps. Compare C++ to Carbon maybe 🙂 but great content nonetheless

@wallabra

Жыл бұрын

Imo Zig and Rust are very philosophically distinct. Zig wants small language approach, where the code is as upfront as possible about what it does, with as little unintuitiveness as possible, whereas Rust wants a big language approach, where the code is adorned with high level abstractions and powerful expression and clear function contracts are valued over immediate clarity of the underlying workings.

@nanderv

4 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say that Go wants to be a better C++. It's type system is very different, it's way of working is extremely different. I think of Go as a simple-to-reason-about pragmatic fast compiled language. It's interface system is basically a simplified, prettier (sue me) version of Rust's, with less options. Go tries to be simple in everything. For instance, things such as map functions etc. are not in the standard library. Indeed, Go does not even have a set. I think Go is it's own beast. I've seen people compare Go to Python, and get extremely confused. I've seen people compare it to Rust, and call it ugly. I've seen people compare it to C++, and call it incomplete. It's none of them. I think Go's main strength lies in it's simplicity of composition: the simple interfaces really allow for things such as hexagonal architecture within your application.

Thank you so much for creating easy to understand, digestible and clear videos on Rust. Much respect.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

You're very kind, as I learn more, I'll produce more!

I've always said, statically typed languages make reading code much easier, because I can be sure, that the things I see will always be that way. Dynamically typed languages make writing code much easier, because you can get things done without thinking too hard about the "what if's". Experience tells us that programmers spend much more time reading code, than writing code.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

absolutely, a huge reason why I love Rust

I love this stuff. I'm retired, now, but I used C back in the day, close to the metal, for physics experiments. Before that it was assembler and sometimes machine code. But C does give you serious foot wounds on occasion. Rust has proper ideas to stop that while you still have real control over the runtime. (In my case, small computers/microcontrollers , networked, doing monitoring stuff). Great series, keep it up.

@avidrucker

Жыл бұрын

I wish I could learn low level programming with some guidance... Do you have any learning resources recommendations, or know anyone who teaches this sort of stuff?

@SimGunther

Жыл бұрын

@@avidrucker How low level we talking? If it's "to the metal", look at the documentation (if there is any) and make a table for all the registers for the prototype program _after_ you have a high-level idea of how the program's logic should work. Sometimes, the fastest way to get an answer is to have a table with the answer already calculated for you...

@chrissaltmarsh6777

Жыл бұрын

@@avidrucker Raspberry pi's are not a bad bet; you can get general purpose machines, to little pi zeros (still capable) or to microcontrollers. There's also a thriving community, with many projects you can get a feeling for. You can cross-compile using rust, or C or java (those are the ones I've done. Java won't go on a microcontroller. But it will work on a pi zero. Slowly, but it'll run a website. Ish)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

My friend, you should learn Rust, it's the same level as C! Try the rust book

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I hear raspberry pi pico is a strong rust compile target!

Hi! There are 2 things in Rust that I personally like very much as well: First of all literally any compound statement is actually just another expression, returning the result from a final expression inside it when that subexpression is not followed by a semicolon. And even if it hasn't such an expression, it still returns a value, namely the Unit type, which is an empty tuple. There's no void return type. This is non-typical for C family programming languages, and comes from functional language influence. It's something that I really mis in C# for example, which is also a very great programming language by the way (I work with it for 20 years already). Second thing that I like is that Rust's object oriented way of programming chooses composition over inheritance strategies, which is good, because inheritance causes many problems.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Really great design decisions, aren't they!

I think one major selling point with Rust is scalability within it's codebase. The Ruby team for example, chose to write the new JIT compiler (YJIT) in Rust because the code became too unreadable and complex.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

And parts of NPM infra, are written in Rust!

@theroboman727

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate CSS rendering engine in firefox was attempted to be rewritten from c++ to c++ twice but they failed. Its written in rust now.

@till8413

Жыл бұрын

@@theroboman727 mozilla also own firefox and rust, so there might have has being another incentive to use it

@theroboman727

Жыл бұрын

@@till8413 yes, but all attempts were serious regardless

@llothar68

Жыл бұрын

@@theroboman727 But the rust html rending also failed, it's just the css engine and that is something that they could have done also in C++. Servo was expected to be much much more.l

Rust community is very lucky to have people like you. Keep up the good work!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I'll try to use my powers for good

@wallabra

Жыл бұрын

​@@NoBoilerplate use them for evil! It's fun! >:3

What do you mean Go is a better C++? Go has a Garbage collector. I would say Go is more of a better faster Python/Javscript thing, because it's still slower than C++.

@CottidaeSEA

Жыл бұрын

Better code design, not faster. I have no clue if it is actually better design, never used Go and I've only watched a stream of someone using it, but that's how I interpreted it.

@khaared

Жыл бұрын

Go is more likely in the class of Java, C# and the likes, it's not a (dynamically typed) script language like Python/Javascript though etc. I would consider Go to be even lower level than Java and C#, not a real system language like C,C++ or Rust, but close to it. The Garbage Collector is compiled into the binary, so it has a rather large runtime, but it can run on its own. Rust does also have a (much smaller) runtime, it's all the syntax sugar magic, that the compiler miraculously translates into the binary.

@jfolz

Жыл бұрын

Depends on how you define speed. For someone like me with extensive knowledge of Python and very little C++ experience, who just wanted to write some CUDA, C++ is infinitely frustrating. It keeps breaking in weird ways and it's impossible to find good resources that aren't horrifically out of date. And given the history of C++ it makes a lot of sense that it turned out this way. Mistakes were made initially and they've been trying to paper over them ever since. C++17 already filled 1400 pages and C++20 grew to 1800! Who is supposed to read, understand every minute detail, and memorize all of it? So for someone like me, who's ripping his hair out googling obtuse compiler errors and valgrinding for hours to find memory errors/leaks, Go is infinitely faster. I get to actually finish my project and it really doesn't matter that it spends 0.05% of its CPU cycles on GC.

@jursamaj

Жыл бұрын

@@jfolz You are talking 'faster to write', while they are talking 'faster running'. Totally different. And at a professional level, they are all pretty close in how fast it is to write it. All you've actually said is that you are not a professional C++ dev.

@dot32

Жыл бұрын

@@jursamaj above was a discussion that go being a better c++ was referring to the language design rather than the performance, and i think riDDimann had a point

"Rust might not be the language you wanted but Rust might be the language you need" --Tris

I'm a frontend dev, so basically as far away from C as a dev can get. But I've been looking into Rust for my bachelor thesis project, I was originally gonna use C++, (cause I need the kind of speed that makes JS just not an option) but the memories from first year classes are painful. I think you pushed me over the edge, so I am installing Rust today, and giving it a spin to see how I like it.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Fantastic! Check out my other videos on rust for more features you're gonna love!

@botondhetyey159

Жыл бұрын

@@hermes6910 Yea. it has really cool potential to it. Right now, I don't have the time to really dive into WASM at all, but it's definitely something I need to try someday.

Wow. This guy’s talking so well about a compiled language that I feel he’s a script writer! So many statements that would be great chapter names ! Subscribed.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@wallabra

Жыл бұрын

Oh I see what you did there! :D

It is remarkable how consistent you sound across your different works of media (at least this and the Lost Terminal Broadcast). The voice, the patterns of speech, the precision of the expressions. Very recognizable. I like it.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

You do me an enormous complement, I've always been impressed by musicians that sound IDENTICAL on stage as they do on the album. Two bands come to mind here: Rage against The Machine and the Darkness. Both surprised me by sounding SO similar that I initially thought they were lip-syncing! But they weren't: I was looking at thousands of hours of practice. The album wasn't a fluke: They could do it again and again. I practice a lot, it's only polite when you are giving your time to listen to me! Thank you again.

As a python developer, typing every variable is very difficult work. But every line written in Rust, I think that it is very beautiful language. I love Rust and Rust love me.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

As a python developer myself, I sympathise! Mypy is great, but it's SO MUCH WORK. However, you're wrong: In Rust, type inference means that you only typically type a function signature, eg, fn send_email(recipient: EmailAddress, client: EmailClientConnection) -> Result {} What wonderful documentation! I bet you can already imagine how to write the function body :-D

4:37 - This is a _very_ useful way to think about the transfer of ownership, at least for us old dogs (who were rather mature programmers when C came out) learning new tricks.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad to help! It's not too bad, just unfamiliar, I think :-)

Beautiful work here. I especially like that you put an unobtrusive progress bar on the video. Enthusiastically subscribed.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you like that features, it's a default feature of reveal.js, and I think it's handy!

9:30 if anyone else is confused, I looked it up and Rust has implicit returns, so the last line would be equivalent with `return Order(tris)`, which would leak memory outside the function scope.

Thanks for all of your rust videos. You've just came in time for me to choose a language for a new project. And I'm looking forward to use rust and become a part of rust community as well :)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Fantastic! Welcome! The best place to get started is the official book, and also Rust by Example. I also came across this today, which is a great overview learning-rust.github.io/docs/a1.why_rust.html Have fun! And do join the discord if you want tips or advice.

Thanks again for another great and inspirational video, this platform needs more people with presentation skills like yours!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, I practice a LOT!

I think what would convince me more is some going through a significant project, Handmade Hero style, on KZread, showing how they think through the code while they write it. I have a lot of little problems with Rust while I write it, sometimes the docs generated by cargo make my eyes bleed, and I don't really have a good IDE to help guide me through the syntax, so I would get more use out of a practical hands-on video at this point. If you have one to recommend I'd really like that.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

You are in luck, this is LITERALLY my next video :-) As for IDE, watch my previous "lightsaber" video, or just use vscode!

@iamhardliner

Жыл бұрын

It's not on youtube, but I can reccomend togglebit on twitch. Really nice guy, great personality and streams his work on his own rust projects.

@Eidolon108

Жыл бұрын

@@iamhardliner Thank you, I found him on twitch, that was a great recommendation.

I am absolutely in love with Rust, and agree broadly on the thesis of this video, but having programmed in C most of my programming career, when you said "Is that all you want? A better C?" I almost dropped to my knees crying. It is all I want, I would love that very much

Just now discovering more of your illuminating 10 minute videos. Usually I listen to coding vids at 1.5 or 1.75 speed...while doing something else. Not so with your stuff...I'm pausing, going back...yet at the same time, relaxing! Love your style, feels like you may have been a philosopher in a past or future lifetime 😶‍🌫

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Yes I find that many coding videos have great content, but are too slow. I assume my audience is smart, and also knows where the pause button is!

I'll have you know, I'm reading through the Rust documentation and it's your voice in my head that I'm hearing. Good stuff.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

well done! And do check out Rustlings and Rust By Example - if you need any help, ask in #newbie-advice on my discord server (links in the description!) GOOD LUCK

Very nice, what I missed, the rust traits which allows to put features on existing and new types, for me a key feature, think about the iterator trait, once implemented for your type you can use all the iterator functionality implemented with rust. That is an extreme form of re-using code, …

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

That's a really great feature, you're right I should talk about traits more!

I just like listening to you speak about rust. I haven't picked rust back up in months. I'm still sitting here with my typescript enjoying myself but whenever you post.... makes me wanna drop everything. Might be your soothing voice. Might be that you're talking about Rust. Hard to know.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

If you want more of my voice (thank you!) I produce a scifi podcast kzread.info/dash/bejne/omeWpqdym9bgfcY.html If you want more Rust, stay tuned :-)

Excellent video! Content structure, presentation and even the way it is narrated is very well done 👍 subscribed ✅

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Do check out my other Rust videos, there's more of this style there!

Keep the good work up! Loving these.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

That cat joke was brutal.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I feel a bit bad about it XD

your segment about lifetimes was great. and the order / account example really helps to understand it. would be great to hear more about ownership, borrow checker and lifetimes

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'd like to learn more about it too! I'll make a video when I learn more :-)

@andredasilva6807

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate cant wait. i have read some rust books. i feel like i get it, but i still dont really use it in my rust code. only for a &str in a struct. but i usually end up using String and getting rid of the reference. The order / account example showed me a new way to see lifetimes :-)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@andredasilva6807 No shame in writing bad rust that works, while you get the hang of it: Copy everything! `String`s everywhere! ALL INTS ARE i32!

Really really loved this video. I had stopped watching programming videos on KZread for couple years now since all these channels have became repeating the same thing and also I don't like their general view on programming. I'm glad this one popped up on my recommendations. Coming from a JavaScript/TypeScript world, I've always wanted to take a look into Rust and see how it works and compares to its other related languages, now I actually I think I'm inspired to start from somewhere with your content and even start learning Rust.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'm so pleased! I too noticed a lack of this kind of careful video. I'm doing the best I can, and learning each week! Do let me know what you think of the fest of the series, there's 11 videos so far, all in this exact format. kzread.info/dash/bejne/g2d1ytyBoZvVl9Y.html

@infiniteeyelashes6729

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate I've already watched all of them, they're great! I like how every comment under the videos are so informative, it's like everyone here are learning together.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@infiniteeyelashes6729 Wonderful! Yes, I'm also so excited about the great community here, everyone's really positive!

I am starting to like Rust. I still want to build a project from start to finish it with, but from what I see so far it is pretty good. It is funny that concepts that I apply for C and C++ regarding memory management are enforced with Rust. And finally a compiler that is smart and tells you the error in a human-understandable way. I am a bit scared about integration with C libraries / C++ libraries, I hope I do not need to create wrappers and converters for it

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Very easy extern c wrappers are available in Rust - check the book!

There are also a new generation of proof oriented programming languages which bring another area to explore in the programming languages landscape: Coq, Lean, F*, Agda, Idris, ATS, HOL, Curry, Mercury.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

My interest in Rust is DIRECTLY inspired from learning about formal systems (we did B and Z) at university. I've been trying to find a popular language I can do real work in that I can formally prove. I thought Haskell might get me close, but it's not quite popular enough. Rust of course isn't a formal language, but it has enough of what I liked from Haskell, and is popular enough, that I'm ALL IN!

I would definitely follow a rust tutorial series from beginner to advanced that explains why we do things. Your voice is so calm:) Rn it is just watching tutorials, and then watch these videos for more in depth topics

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! My next video (eta thursday) will be more of a tutorial. If you would like a scifi story narrated in my voice, I have great news! kzread.info/dash/bejne/omeWpqdym9bgfcY.html

@job4753

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate just watched the tutorial on the space craft, very cool:) Thanks!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@job4753 amazing!

Hey, I have been watching your videos on Rust and you make it much cooler. Love it keep up 💪

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

thank you so much! Honestly, the language itself sells itself, my goal is to just SHOW it to more people!

Whatever was said about Java/JavaScript being 3-4x slower than C while Go being 2x is not true. In most benchmarks you will see C# /Java / Go very close to each other, with most edges being given to C#. The JavaScript part is correct.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

My apologies, I tried to be as vague as possible, as benchmarks differ SO much - I didn't include C# because though it's popular, it's not on my linux radar - I'll include it next time!

@metaltyphoon

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate No need to apologize, you are doing great work here. You should try C# on linux. I exclusively use it on macOS is it's actually amazing. Have a wonderful day.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@metaltyphoon Incredible!

@Klayperson

Жыл бұрын

I started a c# job recently and I'm exclusively on Linux. .NET is fully cross platform now, and a combination of dotnet CLI and vscode makes visual studio totally unnecessary for me. I'm currently learning how to configure neovim with Lua to take vscode out of the picture too (your video on the rust lightsaber pointed me towards AstroNvim, from which i found LunarNvim, whose creator has a video tutorial series on building basically that from scratch)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@Klayperson what a world!

Rust's syntax looks very scary to me as a beginner but I really want to start learning it, I don't know if rust is a good pick for a first language, I have some experience with programming but never decided to try and get into the nitty grittys of a language. your content is very inspiring and I hope you well, thanks for showing us rust!

@nickbanderson

Жыл бұрын

As someone who started with C(++), java, and javascript and has recently learned rust, rust is definitely going to be the hardest to learn. That said, as long as you have a good editor that can feed you rust_analyzer (language server) hints/warnings/errors without having to go back and forth to a terminal shell, I'll say that rust can be a great first language. The language server will give you lots of directed help at how to write better or more idiomatic code and fix errors. Dynamically typed languages leave too much freedom for a beginner to build bad habits and avoid learning important concepts IMO. C/C++ (moreso cpp) are the default first languages in uni for good reasons: learning about memory, data structures, and algorithms. I think rust strikes a great niche of being low level AND modern without the baggage of C++'s long history (you have 10 different ways to do a thing right and many more ways to do it wrong lol).

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Nick has the right of it. If you get vscode set up with the rust_analyzer extension, you'll have a rich coding experience that holds your hand. Try the Rust Book for starters, and keep at it, and ask for questions when you get stuck (maybe on my discord!) doc.rust-lang.org/stable/book/

Thanks for the videos about rust :) Rust is like accouting! You need it to run a smooth business, it is a hassel, but it is there for a reason. A rust program is like business unit, the programmer is responsible for following the "accounting rules" of the borrowchecker and the linter, no illigal transactions, no horsing around and if the "budget" of the program is correct, all is kosher! Rust + Rust analyzer is the coolest programming experience I've had, it almost feels like the code is writing itself (except when I fail to grasp what's going on, but then Shepmaster's answers on stackoverflow is always one google away) and I do love implementing strucks, enums and traits :) 🦀

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

It's such a relaxing dev experience!

I just found your videos a few days ago. Thank you very much. I look forward to your next video.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, I hope they're helpful!

10:00 C++ (not C) has templates but there are also constexpr, consteval & constinit that are just normal code and I think it's very unjust to not properly display such crucial points. Generally, your videos give a sense of prejudice sometimes, like you first think of what you want to say and then you try to somehow reason around your pre-determined opinion, ignoring everything that may invalidate the statement. I'm not saying you're purposely doing that, but sometimes your arguments feel very forced and it's a bit disappointing to have great explanations and essays mixed with this unnecessary litter. I, as a C/C++ enthusiast, believe in the power of Rust and I actually think it's great and in many ways better than other languages I know. I got inspired to really get into Rust (partially by you and I'm very grateful for that) and I've found it to be one of the best, if not the best, experience I've ever had with a new language. There's absolutely no reason to artificially present Rust as better when there's actually stuff to talk about and come to that conclusion. But please once in a while revise your scripts from the perspective of another language's user and think about how their view might be affected by unfair treatment towards their favorite "toy", which sometimes boils down to easily fixable things like poor research on fundamental concepts of languages (eg. Go isn't OO) or choice of words. I'm sorry for being so direct in this comment, but this is a thing that's annoyed me in many videos already and I hope you can incorporate my criticism into upcoming videos. I'm thrilled to see more from you, keep up the mostly good work and also I like your approach to error-correcting your videos, which I've found brilliant! No hard feelings

@kaihsiangju

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree. Rust is a great language, and he definitely has many valid points, but to praise Rust without giving other languages a valid or comprehensive explanation is just not cool .. i do enjoy the languages honestly, but i also believe different languages serve different purposes, it should be okay for someone to enjoy using languages A, language B or language C at the same time.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Message received, I can see now that playing favourites is no good, especially as I don't know very much about the others!

"we have to know, through convention and experience "!! I've been saying this for years when teaching beginners about types. It's the reason I don't think it's wise to teach languages with runtime types to beginners.

@CottidaeSEA

Жыл бұрын

Agreed. It's far better to teach them a strict system first, then once they become a bit more comfortable it's fine to use runtime types. That's one of the reasons why I think Java is a good language for a beginner. Because of the highly explicit syntax, you're telling the system everything it needs to know. For that reason it is highly educational. Because the things you wouldn't think of in a language such as JavaScript or Python, you have to think about in Java. This is despite those very things being just as important in other languages.

@mannycalavera121

Жыл бұрын

@@CottidaeSEA I started with python, the moved to java. Head first java taught me more about programming then multipule python books and courses. Now I'm moving to rust

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. Also, rust has a dynamic type system hidden inside it, if you need that functionality!

@miguelguthridge

Жыл бұрын

A course I tutor at my university (aimed at people with 6 months or so of programming experience) teaches people JS then moves them to TS whilst explaining why the weak typing of JS was risky in terms of code safety.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@miguelguthridge I think Rust would be a great language to teach at university. Imagine the subjects this single language can be used to teach: - Bare-metal robotics - Reactive webgl websites - Database apis - REST apis - Web programming the list goes on! This is one of the reasons I'm most excited about Rust: I might never need another language for 20 years!

I'm just starting my Rust journey today after a few months kicking it back because of college. Awesome videos

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I'm excited for you! Keep reading, and if you get stuck re-watch my videos for inspiration, the learning curve is WORTH IT! XD

Currently going through The book - at chap 8th and am learning a ton, especially since im coming from Python and am not an experienced programmer. Great video!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Same here! Good luck friend!

@lewcreative

Жыл бұрын

Same here. But i strted with c++ b/c of school which was a terrible experience & then went with python.

I'd heard about Rust before these videos, but actually started learning it after these came out, and now I'm rewriting old Python projects in Rust. On another note, I love the attention to detail here, and the fact that the errata comment even exists shows the quality of this channel!

@GonziHere

Жыл бұрын

Congrats on the enthusiasm, but I'm surprised that you would write something in python and then move it to Rust. Python is slow, but it's a great scripting language, therefore, it's being primarily used to ease of use of actual performant code (as in, write a lib in Rust, control it's API through Python).

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! I acknowledge that I'm learning Rust too, and that very smart people comment and help with my learning!

@camerontaylor8709

Жыл бұрын

@@GonziHere For context, I'm not actually working as a developer or anything, I'm a bored teen learning Rust. Rewriting old programs gives me an end goal in mind, so I find it easier to learn the language that way (and can visually see my growth!). Also, because I have to handle errors instead writing something that "just works", I think I become a better programmer.

@camerontaylor8709

Жыл бұрын

@@GonziHere Oh and do you have any resources for learning how to control Rust libs in Python? I didn't actually know you could do that, that sounds really cool

@GonziHere

Жыл бұрын

@@camerontaylor8709 Oh, I see, as an excercise, it's a great idea! I cannot point you to a specific resource, but it should be googleable because that's really typical use for python.

I’m not sure about the rocket analogy. That implies C or C++ is on average slower than Rust. Which is definitely not the case. Instead, Rust is the car that doesn’t allow you to ride it if you plan on ever breaking road laws. Sure, the guy who isn’t bound by road laws will arrive at the destination 10% faster. But he also has a risk of dying in a car crash. The Rust car makes it impossible for you to get into an accident at a small speed cost.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

That's a great analogy. I wasn't thinking of a rocket being faster than a car, but an entirely different kind of vehicle with different principles and operating modes.

I love how this videos background matches with the youtubes, making a nice blend.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

:-D

8:07 In the game osu!, the GitHub issues page specifically has a bulletin for performance issues caused by the garbage collector-it's written in C#. Sometimes people experience lag spikes in the middle of gameplay because the GC just _decided_ to clean some stuff up, taking way longer than a frame to do so. Nasty stuff.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Yikes!

I'm not entirely sure that the whole "reference vs value" problem of remembering which types follow which rules is fully gone: in Rust, you have to remember which types are Copy and which types are not. It's definitely not as big of a problem as remembering if something is a reference type or a value type (especially thanks to trait bounds) but it is worth noting.

@pedrobraz2809

Жыл бұрын

Wait, what?? Can't you choose whether you want an argument to be copied or referenced? In C++, f(T& arg) is a pass-by-reference function. f(T arg) is a pass-by-value function.

@SolomonUcko

Жыл бұрын

@@pedrobraz2809 Rust lets you do that too, using similar syntax (`T`, `&T`, `&mut T`). However, references aren't magic, they act just like any other value: they're pointers but with compiler-enforced lifetime annotations: you have to annotate when you're passing by reference and when you're changing the value pointed to rather than changing where the reference points to.

@Sean-of9rs

Жыл бұрын

@@pedrobraz2809 It's not "copied or referenced" in Rust, usually - it's "moved or referenced". Once a function takes ownership of a parameter (the parameter is moved into the function), it is no longer usable from outside the function. You can control whether a variable is passed by value (moved) or by reference in Rust. Here's what I'm talking about: There is an exception to the rule about moving: types that have the Copy trait are copied, not moved, when passed by value, meaning that the original variable is still usable outside the function (since the function only owns a copy). You cannot directly control whether a type is moved or copied. If the type derives Copy, it is always implicitly copied, and otherwise, it is never implicitly copied. You can make functions that require their arguments to be implicitly copied, or you can (probably) manually copy bits from one variable to another, but it is still sometimes necessary to know if something will be implicitly copied or not.

@olestrohm

Жыл бұрын

@@Sean-of9rs But types that are Copy just have the "bonus" of sticking around after being moved. And if you read code that uses a variable after its been moved then you automatically know it's Copy. You don't often have to think about whether a type is Copy or not when reading code

@Sean-of9rs

Жыл бұрын

@@olestrohm Fair point! It's mainly when writing code (and specifically functions) that it becomes relevant, but even then it can be learned relatively quickly.

C does not have a templating system. It has macros (as does also C++) which are, as you point out, a text substitution system. When you say about templates being "nightmare to use" it's partially true, but they have nothing to do with macros or just text substitution. I get you like Rust but there's no need to skew the facts to make it artificially look nicer. I think it's quite nice on it's own.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence! Thank you for the clarification, I'm new to C and C++. I now see the difference between C's macro system and C++'s template system. However, I think I'm right about them being text manipulation, though, right? You can't execute arbitrary code at compile time and use the results of those executions to build new syntax like you can in Rust?

@politisch_unkorrekt_und_st7719

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate No. The c preprocessor (macros) is a legacy text manipulation facility with a number of inherent caveats and limitations and is present in both c and c++. C++ templates are a whole different beast and can be used as essentially a type system for types (i.e. to create code parameterized on types) and in that role is far more powerful and flexible than any "generics" system I've seen in other languages, by far. It also can be used for heavy metaprogramming and compile-time code execution. The former used to require quite a lot of boilerplate but it's much more terse these days syntax-wise, and you can do the latter without using templates at all. EDIT: grammar

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@politisch_unkorrekt_und_st7719 Does C++ template metaprogramming allow side-effects (such as writing to disk)?

@mihailmojsoski4202

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate Yes, but if you mark it as constexpr it won't.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@mihailmojsoski4202 So no accessing the disk at compile time?

I am reading The Rust Programming Language. I like the guarantee of backward compatibility for the Rust compiler. I also like the features mentioned in the video (most of which are covered in the first six chapters of the book). I do not like the tiny type of the printed book which I have purchased. The lettering is too damn small, however the online version is very readable in my web browser.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I enjoyed reading The Book which I downloaded as an epub (i guess there's a link on the site?) and could chose my preferred font on my ereader - lovely!

The thing about Rust's ownership system is that it makes the *compiler* do what you would have to do anyway. Data ownership and lifetimes do not just go away and stop mattering because your compiler allows you to get it wrong. That's why Rust is so neat: For a newbie, the borrow checker provides training wheels that keep you from falling over, and once you internalize the rules of programming and gain expertise, it'll fade into the background but will still be there to catch you when your caffeine levels dip too low.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! I now write Python thinking about ownership, and my code is better for it!

Is it deliberate or accidental that the unsafe code snipped presented around 10:35 actually has undefined behavior? (Hint: Run it with “miri”, it’s available to install on nightly via rustup, or you can also find it in the playground under “Tools”.)

@steffahn

Жыл бұрын

Oh interesting… that example is apparently from the book!

@steffahn

Жыл бұрын

Apparently there’s already an issue open on this point :-) I would include a link, but f-ing KZread silently auto-deletes my comment in that case.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Amazing! Thank you for telling me this. I stay away from unsafe in my normal code!

I kinda want Rust's memory management in a Python interpreter. To me, that is the most compelling feature and the only major improvement that could be added to Python other than optional strict, static typing. (To simulate the latter, I use assert preconditions.)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

As a python developer of 15 years, you should learn more about Python - it's a hot mess XD I can't WAIT to only use Rust in my dayjob!

@k98killer

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate it might be, but it doesn't turn my stomach sour like JavaScript. I'm unconvinced that I can use Rust to do all the things I do with Python, for example having a multiplatform contract that commits to a single piece of code by its content hash.

@theroboman727

Жыл бұрын

that would probably be very hard to implement. you have to remember that borrowing is also a core part of what makes ownership work.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

​@@k98killer That seems like a pretty normal thing to do in most programming general-purpose languages, why can you only do that in Python? Here's some concrete things: - Python can't compile to webassembly, - nor run natively on bare metal chips (micro/circuitpython isn't python, ask pip!), - It runs 72x slower than rust in single process benchmarks and HUNDREDS of times slower in multiprocessing. - and I guarantee there are bugs in your code that you'll only find in production, or maybe NEVER. They'll just be a lingering feeling that something is hidden under the waterline, waiting to bite you. Have a look at kzread.info/dash/bejne/g2d1ytyBoZvVl9Y.html where I dig in deep, and even give examples where Python falls short.

@k98killer

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate I'll check out that video. On the code/contract commitment topic, you could commit to the source code with Rust, but then you would have to recompile before running every single time to ensure you are running the code in the commitment. Of course, there is an implicit security assumption with implementing this in Python that the interpreters will be compatible, so it isn't that different. The secure distribution of software is still technically unsolved. I suppose that the largest issue preventing my use of Rust is that I haven't been using it, so I lack the confidence to build things with it. Do you have any resources for Rust TDD that you would recommend to a Rust noob? Edit for side note: I wish Python had an immutable/frozen dict type. It really does not make sense that it does not.

I'm an ameteur programmer. I really only know java basics but have been looking for a language i can do basically anything i want with. Your vids have sold me on Rust, gonna make my Lightsaber as soon as i can.

@NoBoilerplate

8 ай бұрын

Fantastic! I'm so pleased for you, it's an exciting world. Here's my playlist on how to get started: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oY1kutmGf7bgoZc.html

8:16 as a random side note, Nim actually has a GC that works fairly well in (as far as my personal experience goes) at least a few embedded devices, e.g. the ESP32

@afjelidfjssaf

5 күн бұрын

yup, you can even turn off the GC for embedded

“C has a templating system that is hot garbage“ 🤣🤣🤣 I love this video, how did I just stumble onto this channel today! Gotta join that Discord server

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. You'd be welcome!

6:23 In Python if you write name: str = 13, the program will run but any linter like Pylance will tell you that there is type mismatch. So you know what type variable should have.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Linters are essential, absolutely. The Rust linter is called 'clippy'

I have to say I love your videos they make me so happy. Thank you so much!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Did you check out my podcast? I'm so proud of it!

@skyesamuels8657

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate no but I will right now! Thank you so much for responding it made my week :)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@skyesamuels8657 My pleasure! I hope you like it, would love to know what you think! kzread.info/dash/bejne/omeWpqdym9bgfcY.html

Also, Rust *does* have runtime - you almost always end up using tokio (or unfortunately less popular async-std). In addition, GC does *not* introduce indirection by itself. You can think of it as just another allocator implementation with tracing collection in places where it's impossible to directly infer where Rust-analog of .drop() is called.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Sure, I mean like a full mandatory heavyweight dynamic language runtime. Tokio has no std options I believe! A GC's indirection is due to lack of control over memory, it seems to me.

"Speed is a feature.." You're Goddamn right my man

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

like I said in my previous video, if your language is 73x faster than Python, you might not need much in the way of scaling (for CPU bound workloads!)

I wouldn't call Go object oriented when comparing it to C++. It does OO very differently. While calling it OO is technically true, it kinda implies inheritance, which it very much does not have.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I've made a mistake with Go there. I should learn more!

Also, thank you so much for your hot take on C/C++ templates! I assumed I was 'not getting it', but I'm glad a way more experienced dev also thinks its weird :) Back in uni a whole course was about scientific meta programming in C++, and it was a complete mess...

@tk36_real

Жыл бұрын

The channel owner is simply wrong! To unravel the "complete mess" you just have to search for C++'s constexpr

@tk36_real

Жыл бұрын

@@8ightfold no he specifically said "C" and "Template" in the context of compile time evaluation. He obviously means the C++ template-system but is very uninformed

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

You're correct, I conflated C macros and C++ templates. They're both hot garbage, however! The naming confusion is why I called proper macros "Build tools" in my deep dive into them kzread.info/dash/bejne/gqmBurmcYNvYe5M.html

@tk36_real

Жыл бұрын

@@8ightfold I commented basically saying this and he responded he'll try to improve this aspects - let's hope for the best

@arthurmoore9488

Жыл бұрын

Template metaprograming can be extremely difficult. Which is why C++20 and C++23 are actively solving those problems. That's not to degrade what Rust has, but one of the major advantages C++ has is it's actively evolving to take advantage of all the cool features we want from a modern language.

The language I use depends on the environment and problem I am solving at the time. All languages have macros, it is just that the macro part is not built in : ) I regularly run code through a macro processor before running / compiling. I started running Pascal through gpm because at 300 baud it was far to verbose : ) For many problems you can define a model to solve the problem, a virtual machine to implement a programming language to solve the problem.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Peter! I spotted your spectrum in your profile picture and blasted through a bunch of your chiptune videos - fantastic! I don't disagree with your sentiment, one should always chose the right language. HOWEVER I beg you to feel out Rust so you can make that decision, you might be surprised at what you can do! Here's my showcase video on loads of Rust's features that you can't really find in one place elsewhere kzread.info/dash/bejne/YqZ-m5arksfalag.html I'd love to know what you think!

"Rust has an Algebraic Type System, and if you know what that is you already know you want it in your language" Somebody out there may know what it is and not want it, but I haven't met them.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Exactly :-D

This guy is a rust ambassador, he creates FOMO in me. I am going to learn rust 😅💯

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

rustup.rs - try it today!

0:23 When Jai eventually becomes public, I think it will take Zig's and Go's place, but for now, it might be Zig (For c), and Go (For c++).

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

There's always something new just waiting to be the next big thing! Carbon too. Maybe Nim. Rust is here today 😀

@Robert-ht5kd

Жыл бұрын

Who said that Go is replacement for C++? For starters it has Garbage Collector so it must be slower than C++.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@Robert-ht5kd Agreed, I think Java->Go is a better analogy, I was wrong in the video.

Good videos as always!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I had my Go pitchfork ready when you said it was object oriented! (saw ERRATA later) Jokes aside, great video once again!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

What a surprise! Go has gone up in my estimations greatly!

Your lifetimes order_example() doesn’t compile. The tris Account variable has to be created outside that function. You can create it in main and then pass it into order_example but it won’t compile if it’s owned by that function.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Correct, that is exactly the error I am demonstrating, do read the text on the slide as well as the code, sorry it wasn't clearer!

@keatonhatch6213

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate ahh it’s right in my face… lol I’m an idiot!

@Krasbin

Жыл бұрын

I got a bit confused by the video, but now I get it. Thank you.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@keatonhatch6213 No problem, you're not the only one, I will make it more obvious in future videos!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@Krasbin you're not the only one, I will make it more obvious in future videos!

been learning rust for about 1 month now and I actually understand what is going on at 10:57 :). First watched this video about 2 weeks ago and I had no clue what any of that meant

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Fantastic! I'm delighted :-)

8:38 literally is a prophetic text from a God sent book

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

It's a wonderful book, so well written!

0:40 No. I might agree, that Rust is not just a better C++ (honestly I think, it is), but Go is definitely not a better C++. Rust and C++ have these in common, which go doesn't: - generics (newest go has) - no GC - no reflection (runtime type information) - focus on zero cost abstractions - RAII - low level programming abilities (pointer math, etc.) Rust basically takes all the general ideas of C++ and implements them in a cleaner and safe way.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I can see I need to learn more about Go, apologies!

@Starwort

Жыл бұрын

Rust *does* have (opt-in) RTTI, in the form of `Any` and `Any::is`

You are one of the most articulate, and sophisticated programming KZreadr I have ever seen, subscribed!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Theo, I'll try to be accurate too!

Can anyone provide any source for the part starting at 1:44? (concerning the speed of languages compared to C) Would love to check it out

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

There's so many benchmarks, which is why I was so vague. A simple pure CPU benchmark is github.com/kostya/benchmarks

u r insane man !! Everytime u make a video about Rust, Something really excites to check it out !! Amazing RUSTACEAN u rr !!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! honestly this language is so interesting, it's easy! :-)

I started hearing a lot about Rust recently, so I decided to read up about it before trying it. I decided not to use it and without mincing words, I just don't trust a language with that foundation list.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

What do you mean with "foundation list"?

@ONIscrooge

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate The Rust Foundation. It's continued development was announced by several companies. I just don't trust most of them.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@ONIscrooge Ah! Mozilla, Google, AWS, Microsoft, and Huawei. Yeah. I don't really know about Google and Huawei's plans for Rust, other than they are happy to pay to help development. But Mozilla, AWS, and Microsoft are building and hiring with Rust HUGELY: Microsoft ported all of the windows api to rust: crates.io/crates/windows AWS are porting all of the aws cloud api to Rust: github.com/awslabs/aws-sdk-rust And Mozilla, well they've lost their way a little at the moment haven't they. I hope they can find their way back. At least they're still putting huge amounts of money into Rust, so I won't write them off just yet! What's the 'trust' part here? What don't you trust them to do, vis Rust? I'll take KZread's advertising money to do good Rust education, even though I don't trust them!

@ONIscrooge

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate I don't trust them to make good decisions long term in Rust's development. I can't really give specifics, because anything under the sun is a possibility with their track record.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@ONIscrooge Here's hoping the Rust Foundation keeps it's independence, which is has thus far.

How a developer starts interacting with rust. - Look at the code once, gets confused by a lot of unique features. - Start studying the book. Gets even more confused by all the technical details. - Start writing a few projects. Gets a lot of errors, start hating the language and all the time spent trying to making the compiler work. - Finish writing the project. Start testing and debugging. Realize it takes a few minutes to debug and test the ENTIRE project. - Finds out how fast the project runs. - Realize that all frameworks in rust are written in a similar way. No need to re-learn every time like in javascript. - Start loving Rust.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

That's it! For the first half of that learning, you're gonna need a lot of motivation. I started writing my videos for that reason

@rumplstiltztinkerstein

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate Yes. But it's definitely worth it. Feels like entering the "cool coders" club.

@shambhav9534

Жыл бұрын

I used to wonder why it ranks so high each year in SO's surveys for being the most loved. That is until I tried it. Yep, definitely feels like a cult devoted to worshipping Rust.

@devnexen

Жыл бұрын

- Starting to love how long the compilation takes :-P do not get me wrong tough I like this language

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@devnexen Keep your rustup up to date, every edition gets faster!

~ 7:00 I would argue, that the memory safetey of a language is independent of garbage collection? To me memory safety means no dangling pointers or references. On the other hand, garbage collector or not, one can always have memory leaks. One could even argue, that a garbage collector may help detecting lost / no longer accessible memory by analysing the object graph.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I see what you mean, but to me memory safety = a human doesn't get involved with memory management. Either you free up memory when it's not used, or the garbage collector does. Either method can cause memory unsafely, it's just that the garbage collector has perfect knowledge and doesn't make mistakes. (it can have bugs that cause problems, of course) By the strict definition of systems languages, memory leaks aren't a safety problem, they're an operator problem. In GC languages, they represent a bug in the GC.

Side effect of binge listening to lost terminal is that it’s now very weird to listen to your rust videos xD, but i’m nearly caught up now, and will be able to do other things, maybe even try to write rust code again!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Oh wonderful!

I don't see how Enums and Structs are a "weird" feature?

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

This is the way

@something4074

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate That is a very confusing response

@beepbeep606

Жыл бұрын

@@something4074 Stop worrying, you are already there.

@kevinkon.6845

Жыл бұрын

Get Oxidized

@verified_tinker1818

Жыл бұрын

I think he meant enums that can hold data. That's a staple in functional languages but sorely missing from OO ones.

not so sure about Go being a replacement for C++

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

That's not necessarily what I meant, the Go team thought about what they would do if they could design C++ with a clean slate, today, based on all we know. They chose: - Buillt-in GC - Static compilation by default - Batteries included standard library - Simple concurrency - simplified syntax with one obvious way to do things. - etc. And it's really paid off!

1:48 "But a fast-executing language that crashes all the time, is like a supercar... that crashes all the time." Richard Hammond (and James May in "A Scandi Flick"): _nervous glancing_

(I’m on an iPhone for reference) I don’t see the “top video” or “bottom video” you mention at the end of the video. Where can I find these videos?

@tk36_real

Жыл бұрын

They're playlists and should be displayed at the end on iPhone too

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, they're there, but youtube is weird about some platforms. I thought iPhone would be normal though...

Tried learning Rust. Got to lifetimes... almost had a stroke and gave up LOL

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Me too, wow it's unfamiliar right? When I picked up Rust in 2020, I gave up more than once! The first thing that annoyed me is TWO STRING TYPES. What a complication! (spolier alert, one's stack, one's heap) Let me tell you why we need those annoying lifetime annotations: They are a FEATURE of Rust. Other languages don't have lifetime annotations, and that's because even the cleverest compiler doesn't know your intent as the programmer. So other compilers can't help you. In Rust, you tell the compiler how long references need to last, and this gives you a superpower: If your type system has lifetime annotations, you can model not just WHAT your data is, but WHEN. You'll have never experienced this before, as I hadn't, and so have no frame of reference as to why this is useful, but TRUST ME it is. You'll get it if you stick with it. My Rust videos (7 at the time of writing) are packed full of the incredible features of Rust that once you hear about them, you might well get excited about. (playlist here kzread.info/head/PLZaoyhMXgBzoM9bfb5pyUOT3zjnaDdSEP) When I learned Rust, I had a mentor to help me through the steep learning curve. Most people aren't so lucky, so I made you these videos to help :-)

@noomade

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate Thanks for the thought out response. And yes, your videos are amazing!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@noomade You're very kind, I do put a lot of effort into them! Keep learning, friend. Take a break, remember why you were excited to learn Rust in the first place, then get back to it. The learning curve is steep, but it's not infinitely tall. Try fasterthanli.me/articles/a-half-hour-to-learn-rust to get your eyes used to it, and of course the Rust book.

I completely disagree with your statement on how rust is not a better c++ and that go is. First of all, c++ no does not rely on object orientation and its type system is way more complex than go, the only part of c++ standard library that relies on classical object oriented with dynamic dispatch are streams and exceptions, all other parts relies primarily on meta-programming and secondly on functional programming. Think of std::string for instance, std::string is an alias for the template std::basic_string. If you want a new string type using another allocator, you just change the allocator, creating a whole new type in the process. Giving this template a new allocator is actually giving him something that holds a set of functions to call when needed, this is an approach of functional programming. From this simple and overused class example, you can see directly where the traits in rust came. Same for all collections, iterators, same for the whole and libraries, meta-programming and functional programming, C++20 with concepts is giving us an alternative to rust traits (concepts were planned on c++11 at first), C++20 new library is directly based on functional programming, C++20 is integrating the fmt library in the standard which rust took almost as it was. Secondly, C is not the fastest between C, C++ and rust. C could be the fastest if the programmer is actually taking a lot of time to adapt its code to the compiler translation in assembly that could not be portable to another architecture and/or could change with a compiler update. Most of the time C++ is faster because the compiler is free to make way more optimizations on code and rely a lot more on compilation-time calculation Rust is almost at the same level of c++ in term of performance and have way less delta between two runs. Rust is taking the whole philosophy of c++ on zero cost abstraction. The sum type is not rust-specific, rust almost literally took it from functional languages, especially Ocaml. You can do sum types in c with an union and an enum, you can do sum types in c++ with std::variant or std::optional. For the "data ownership" and "garbage collector" sections, this is relying yet on another C++ mechanic that is the core of this language and as Bjarne Stroustrup said, it would be the first thing he would do if he was asked to rewrite C++ today : RAII (Resource Acquisition Is Initialization), Go didn’t get this and preferred a Garbage collector. C++ is memory safe as long as you don’t use c functions and no longer use operator new and operator delete. Rely on smart pointers like std::unique_ptr, look at std::box::Box and see how things seems similar. Rust is taking this safety and ensure you do it the right way. These are all the reasons why rust, for me, is a better c++. Rust is actually a C++ if we give up the C code compatible constraint, everything that rust do better than C++, it can because rust designers didn’t care about C retro-compatibility (except for exceptions). Const correctness is really important for C++ for instance, C retrofitted the keyword because it was helpful but C++ did it before C. But because C++ had to be retro-compatible, a value declaration could never be const by default, thus const has to be written, rust is not bonded to be C retrocompatible, thus all values are const by default, only mut values are variables. Same for move semantic. I think you missed an important point on rust : its very name. Rust has been named like that because it does not invent many things; it uses things that has been experienced throughout the decades of programming, taking the best of everywhere and making it better. Rust is a better C++, taking its whole philosophy, the same goals on performance, the same use, the same goals on how to make things on many things. It’s just making it way simpler, giving up C retrocompatibility that makes no sense now, taking years of experiences and tests in C++ without having to prevent to break compatibility with existing code and taking whole parts of functional programming language in the process to make it better. Go is nowhere near that, RAII has been abandoned, performances too, compile time operation and meta programming as well. In many ways, go is way closer to python than C++, making a language as simple as possible, really easy to learn, provided with lots and lots of modules, used a lot for scripts and to be used online primarily. Go for me is like Python and Java having a baby, the performances and garbage collector approach of Java, the learning simplicity coming with batteries of Python.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Yes I regret the Go analogy, woops!

@KutluKanyilmaz

5 ай бұрын

This is a great explanation. Thanks.

I like Julia lang. for julia lang you get the path: C++ -> python -> JL which is a compiled language that can be interpreted; functional style; and gives you the option to choose whether you wanna be type specific or if you want to leave it for the compiler. It still works like C++ but if Rust compiles then python could've encapsulated Rust instead which could've inspired a language like Python and Julia that works on the ideas of Rust. the only thing that prevents me from getting into rust is similar to the reason I don't instantiate an SQL database to look through a .csv file...

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I LOVE Julia, I'm so excited to use it for data science and projects where a runtime is an asset, not a liability! But Julia has none of the emphasis on correctness and safety that I'm excited to use Rust for for big production projects. With Rust I can write, easily, and without much expertise, code that I am extremely confidant has no runtime paths that crash, the compiler won't let me make mistakes.

@BleachWizz

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, big projects seems to be a strong point for rust. idk if the looks of the project would be easier to understand for outsiders. But my big project with python ended up a bit of a mess even for myself who made it. XD

Good and accurate :) I am trying program in Rust for 5 years now :)

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

fantastic!

You left out the most important feature of Rust: screaming at you every other line of code for something weird and hard to debug. At least this is how I felt on my first week learning Rust 😅. The more I keep pushing through the more I enjoy it (I'm probably becoming a masochist 🤣). Anyhow, great video!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Very true! The way I think of it is the compiler is forcing you to fix all your future edge cases TODAY!

@KohuGaly

Жыл бұрын

The classic Rust road: Beginner: "Why the fuck does this code not compile!? It's obviously correct! Borrow checker you pedantic idiot!" Intermediate: "Wow thanks borrow checker for saving my ass again! I totally missed this weird edge case!" Expert: ""Why the fuck does this code even compile?! It's obviously wrong! Borrow checker you sloppy idiot!"

@electra_

Жыл бұрын

ive started learning Rust semi recently and like I write code and get a bunch of errors and i look at one and its like "why the fuck would this not work? this is how i would code it in any other language" ... thinking ... "oh frick that would totally have a major bug in this edge case"

I'm unconvinced by the "no garbage collector" part. AAA games use a bunch of hand picked allocators to handle millions of entities without any lag. Low-end Embedded devices will often use static allocations for fine grain control over memory layout. Wasm doesn't come with an allocator, so producing nice wasm requires the programmer to think about memory management. The (safe) rust solution is to just let the borrow checker spam malloc and free calls. I do believe you can write rust code that's as fast or faster than C, but the performance critical parts of the code *will* end up looking at lot like C code.

@taragnor

Жыл бұрын

The borrow checker shouldn't be spamming malloc and free calls. Memory should only be allocated on the heap if you use a Box, Rc or RefCell (or their parallel friendly cousins), and should only be freed if one of those objects goes out of scope.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Rust is smarter than these mistakes you are guessing at, why assume the worst?

@khaared

Жыл бұрын

@@taragnor Don't forget the probably most used Vec. There are a few other data structures from standard libary that are heap allocated. But the language (without std lib) itself doesn't magically use allocators. If it would, it wouldn't be a system language I'd say. You have the same power as C and C++ (although it requires sometimes unsafe Rust)

@taragnor

Жыл бұрын

@@khaared Yeah, Vec and the other data structure classes too. Still have no idea where he's saying that the borrow checker is spamming malloc and free calls. At worst that might happen on a growing Vec, but you can set it to reserve a set amount of space when you create it if you want to avoid it resizing a bunch of time as you grow a big one.

@MRL8770

Жыл бұрын

I don't think you understand how the borrow checker works, but maybe I'm reading this wrong. It's a compile-time feature. Static allocations are possible. This isn't an issue really. Wasm is a virtual instruction set. Instruction sets don't come with allocators, OSes and standard libraries do. The one thing that Rust can't do that you mentioned is usage of various custom allocators for various scenarios. Rust currently can use only one custom allocator globally, per crate (library). From my experience, it's not the best language for tasks that require very fine-grained memory management (altough some people wrote entire kernels in Rust), but it works very well for a lot of performance-critical code .

Thank you for the video. I would be curious about a similar video about Crystal Language as it is pretty much an underdog right now.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

Crystal, along with Nim, Go, and Haskell are among the language I trialled out in 2020 to compete with Rust. None of them are doing anything new except for Rust. Crystal's terrific, as is Nim (for Ruby and Python developers, respecively!) but neither has the popularity for me to build a team around, so my excitement about using them is muted. Check out where Crystal is on this graph redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-22/

@foobar5442

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate I agree with that. But isn't part of the missing popularity that it's barely covered in media (i.e. from KZreadrs 😉)?

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@foobar5442 Hehe, I get what you're saying. Crystal's a fine language, but it's not doing anything revolutionary like Rust is doing. I don't want a better Ruby, I want a better LIFE!

@foobar5442

Жыл бұрын

@@NoBoilerplate which is the reason why I'm curious about Crystal. Rust appears far boilerplatey to me than Crystal and I find Crystal far easier to read. Readability and writability are essential for my job. I have the same issue with regular expressions: I like them and I guess I can read and write at least most but they're still not as readable as "regular code" to me. Anyway, thank you for responding!

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

@@foobar5442 Rust does have a lot of syntax doesn't it? Boilerplate code is *unnecessary* code, however. Rust's syntax seems boilerplate-y because there's new features (like the borrow checker and lifetime annotations) that don't appear in other popular languages, so they SEEM like boilerplate. It took me a while, and I crashed out twice, but I now see that this extra syntax is what powers the superpowers of Rust.

It is funny that nobody talks about D. Which does not have a force memory model and which also supports a broing pointer.

@NoBoilerplate

Жыл бұрын

I'm only interested in languages I can build a team with and change the world with. D, for all it's good features, is not one of those. Speed counts, but so does popularity, sadly. Take a look at where D is on this graph: redmonk.com/sogrady/2022/03/28/language-rankings-1-22/ Though I love learning languages from anywhere on here, I focus my attention on the top right. Rust snuck up there in 2020!