Rotax saw what Epic was doing and thought, we can do that and charge even more.

Man that thing looks amazing! Can't wait to hear what it sounds like in person.

Lol you can get the same hp, 40lbs lighter for about 6k with a yamaha apex engine with an sds control system and a stinger redrive. And yes there are several of this set up already flying and have been for awhile now.

@Captndarty

Жыл бұрын

And running around at 8,000 rpm’s sucks. What do you think the cg envelope is like with an engine 40lbs lighter? Crap that’s what.

@robmiller5818

Жыл бұрын

@Captndarty lol its been flying just fine for more than a year with no issues other than some teething issues early on. Rotax engines run just as high. On the project I follow closest cg also has never been an issue soooooo....

@Captndarty

Жыл бұрын

Rotax do not run just as high. I can get a faster airspeed at 5000 engine rpm than you can at 8000 engine rpm. Soooo there’s that….. many people like yourself buy multiple apex engines because in the back of they’re mind they don’t 100% trust a used engine out of a wrecked machine. I’m not saying there’s in the market for the Yamaha, but it’s an extremely small percent experimental aircraft. It doesn’t work for most people. And quite frankly, besides it’s obvious capabilities, for “stol” the people that get on the high horse about the Yamaha motor are quite often obstinate and cheap or both🤷🏻‍♂️

@chippyjohn1

Жыл бұрын

@@Captndarty The way you talk sounds like a person comparing a contisaurus engine to a rotax. As an engineer, the apex engines are far better, but would be better if designed for a cruise rpm of 6000. I am using a Suzuki M13A and it is far superior to Rotax. The issue is people using an engine in an aircraft designed for a different engine, it is not the engine itself that is no good.

@jorbedo

Жыл бұрын

​@@Captndarty exactly that's how rotax started with few engines from a high rpm snowmobile engines, yamaha reliability is higher than rotax. Rotax regular engines are crap, oil and waterpumps gears are plastic. Wait for yamaha aircraft engines.

I can see that swining a set of rotors. Nice!

That’s the beauty of fadec Engine last longer and in the end can produce more power Pay attention Lycoming and Continental

Bravo.thenks

Unlike Lycoming and Continental, Rotax has a modern advanced efficient assembly plant that should create cost savings that Lyc/Cont can't match. However, the factory is located in Austria which is about the most expensive place in the world to manufacture anything. And the cost of freight, customs and a distributor such as Lockwood means that any cost savings evaporates. UL has the same problem but also has a small engine assembly shop like Lyc/Cont. Non aero engine conversions could gain more market penetration as the prices continue to increase. Also, increasing the LSA weight limit will also benefit the engine conversion segment. Also, Factory support in the USA for Rotax for the most part is terrible.

@franksanders7102

3 ай бұрын

Rotax, ive really started to dislike them. Many little problems with these engines. Cheap motorcycle parts that are resold to us as airplane parts at 10 x the price! Who will work on your engine? Who know's how to fix it? Can't find anybody usually...

@deeremeyer1749

Ай бұрын

ROFLMAO. Oh yes. European "efficency" in "modern" facilities is SO much more "cost effective" than the American "competition" and therefore more "affordable". Because "efficient" mass production of experimental aircraft engines is SO important for "affordability" and getting KIT PLANES IN THE AIR AS "QUICKLY" AND "CHEAPLY" AS POSSIBLE AS AN "AFFORDABLE ALTERNATIVE" TO REAL CERTIFIED GENERAL AVIATION AIRCRAFT ROTAX'S "COMPETITION" AT LYCOMING AND CONTINENTAL "CONCENTRATE" ON. YOU BET. You're not even making an apples to oranges comparison and come "overhaul" time is any A&P in "America" going to TOUCH that European "efficiency". Or "maintain" one between annuals? Or annual one at all? Not so much. Nothing "superior" and "assembled" in Europe is more "affordable" to a "competitor" made in "America" for the exact same purpose. And no Rotax engine is an "option" OR "alternative" in a factory-built general aviation aircraft with Lycoming OR Continental power AND there isn't a KIT PLANE out there capable of USING all 160 max TAKEOFF power for "5 minutes".

@deeremeyer1749

Ай бұрын

​@@franksanders7102They're not motorcycle parts. They're SNOWMOBILE AND PERSONAL WATERCRAFT AND ATV PARTS, LOL. BIG DIFFERENCE. MOTORCYCLES HAVE.TO BE MUCH MORE "RELIABLE" AND "HIGH TECH" WHEN IT COMES TO EMISSIONS STANDARDS EVEN OFF-ROAD. So Rotax has never "invested" in that "market". At least not in "America".

Idk, I'm kinda meh about this. The engine is a suped up 915 that can handle some extra power for a little bit of time. That's great for the stol crowd, but for everyone else this is just a more expensive 915.

The power to weight ratio is incredible!

@DLTNRDG

Ай бұрын

Normal, consume gasolina como un borracho

What kind of oil do you use in the Rotax?

So it's the same as a 912 they just cranked up the boost and timing..?

Rotax has priced itself out of the market above 100hp.

@Factory400

Жыл бұрын

I don't think so. It all adds up, power-weight-cost-operating cost-reliability

@brianhaselden9186

Жыл бұрын

You price a Lycoming lately?

@warwickchristian5682

Жыл бұрын

You get what you pay for...

@dimsler2

Жыл бұрын

lol, it flies on pump gasoline? you realize the savings?

@Pilotpaulie

Жыл бұрын

@@dimsler2 good point. Avgas is crazy.

With respect to percentage of power. If you run either the 915 or 916 at 75% power is that percentage of the max continuous of 135, or its maximum of 140/160? For example is 75% power of the 916 greater than 75% of the 915? And if so would the 915 at 80% be equivalent to the 916 at 75% or thereabouts? I’m trying to find out if there’s any real benefit to the 916 over the 915 which I already have other than a 14% increase in takeoff power for five minutes.🤦🏻‍♂️

How much does it weight?

Thanks for the info. Looks like a badass engine.. Wish he'd had mentioned the weight.. Pretty sure, I won't see the need in a powered parachute configuration,, but for you GA folk, wow.. Rotex 503 still a great choice, just harder to find parts..

Upgrade the internals, forge them or triple forge them, larger fuel injectors, change the ecu program, it's not a ridiculous horsepower increase they didn't try to double it. They also have the data on all the testing and real world running issues with essentially the same engine in the 915 at least, so they fix those issues as well. What's the weight difference. If there isn't a huge penalty for weight how would 200 hp hold up with this configuration? Sounds like maybe they are holding back on performance a little, in my view. The only limit I see is how much charge air can you fit into those 4 cylinders? Looks like you could rebuild your stock 915is and get 916is or greater performance with the information presented in this video.

I wonder how these compare to engines made by UL Power. Their UL260 and UL350 are in the same category.

2:38 Dawwww such a cute, tiny, expensive turbo.

What’s the actual duty cycle of that 5 mins max limit? Every hour? Every flight?

@Captndarty

4 ай бұрын

Yup there’s not a single peep about that anywhere.

Rotax builds some really great engines and the new 916is is no exception. However, they're incredibly overpriced, so I'll be installing a Viking engine in my aircraft build. Yes, the power to weight ratio isn't quite as good, but with it being over $30k cheaper, parts costing much less and still having the legendary Honda reliability, I'll be quite happy with it.

@bobbertee5945

Жыл бұрын

I really would love to know what it costs Rotax to build, granted there is some R&D involved in price but jeeze, over 50k for a motor?? that will cost u another 20k after your 2000 hr TBO..... I know they are well built light weight motors but ive always had a dislike for a 5k RPM at cruise 4 stroke......

@patrikj

Жыл бұрын

I dunno, the Viking a friend of mine had did not exhibit any "legendary Honda reliability" when a rod came out the case after a few hours.

@randominternet5586

Жыл бұрын

I thought viking had a ton of problems on their "reliable" honda - at least at the start it didn't really live up to the thinking. Do cars run max power all the time? That's a big diff from car vs airplanes. I'm sure they fixed some of the issues over time, but at least at the start my impression was some real issues with the "honda reliability".

@warwickchristian5682

Жыл бұрын

There's an old saying....'cheap is more expensive' Good luck with the Viking.

@vitordelima

Жыл бұрын

@@randominternet5586 This is another reason to look for other engines to convert besides common car engines, they may be more expensive or trickier but the amount of effort to convert them may be smaller because they were made for higher continuous power output, rougher environments, ...

A "TBO" for an "upgraded" experimental aircraft engine. You bet. Of course that's if its installed, maintained,.serviced and operated PRECISELY to manufacturer "recommendations". And is that "aero engine" a FIXED WING engine or a ROTARY WING engine?

If they built a 2.5 liter turbo in the 250hp range it would be a done deal !!

Rotax manufactures engines for paramotor?? (paragliders)

50,000 and you still need a prop! what a delio lol

I really like the Rotax product, doubling the rpm in order to reduce the displacement while making the horsepower with a modern ignition and fuel system, low weight makes sense. Unfortunately, it appears Rotax is going the direction of Lycoming/Continental and becoming a super expensive boutique aircraft engine manufacturer. But you can actually overhaul and rebuild a Lycoming/Cont and find them on the used market. A Rotax cannot be overhauled or rebuilt as the factory and Rotax distributors such as Lockwood highly discourage it due to cost and they would rather sell you a new one. They are throw away engines once they fail the condition inspection. My friend the A&P who works only on LSA says only 4 shops in the US are "allowed" to split a Rotax case. I just don't get it. The door is wide open for Yamaha or anyone else to step in with a high RPM engine from the factory. You would think these engines are made out of Gold or Silver.

@randominternet5586

Жыл бұрын

Totally agreed *BUT* they really need to target the aircraft market. That's pretty much running at full power for extended periods. Yamaha makes boat engines and other high endurance high power continuous engines - so they have the know how somewhere in their company - not sure they see it as worth investing in air.

@vitordelima

Жыл бұрын

I know Lycoming and Continental (and Jabiru, ...) also can be improved a lot by several unofficial modifications and STCs while Rotax have a single unofficial modder as far as I know.

@franksanders7102

3 ай бұрын

Rotech in Canada can rebuild them. They are VERY difficult to deal with. Its like they know they have a corner on the market and will use it against their customers... Not cool

That price just ain’t right. Your now into continental and Lycoming prices .

Fifty grand??? Ouch! Edge engine cheaper???

He just said it. The only difference is in the ECU. Why would you pay that when you can mod your 915 or the 914

That's only 20 grand more expensive than competitive offerings. A real bargain!

Ducati come on out and use your air cooled engine make an aviation v4 motor!! 140 hp ha ha

$50k for 160hp. 😆

@glsracer

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's become a joke

Ok, so what is the total INSTALL running ready to fly weight then ??? Why not just buy the simpler les complicated fuel injected 160hp ULPower UL350iS

That is stupid amount of money for an engine. I love how the aviation community wants to make more pilots ……but…. Only if you are extremely wealthy. Between training and owning being so expensive it will be a slow death for the aviation community.

A 13% increase for 5 minutes and a 1.5% increase in max continuous is MASSIVE POWER!? What adjective is left when there really is a significant power increase such as 50%? 😂. Given that the new price is $7,000 more than I just paid for a 915iS, that is a pretty pricey few horsepower.

@andrewmorris3479

Жыл бұрын

Don’t forget the 915 iS dynos at 146HP too.

@LTVoyager

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewmorris3479 I was comparing published Rotax specs.

@andrewmorris3479

Жыл бұрын

@@LTVoyager Yes I know, just letting others know Rotax is pulling a fast one here.

@LTVoyager

Жыл бұрын

@@andrewmorris3479 How are they pulling a fast one? Have you seen Dino results on a 916 yet? It may well dyno above its published specs also. Even Lycoming and Continental engines routinely dyno above their published HP specs. It is common for engine makers to be conservative on what they publish.

@andrewmorris3479

Жыл бұрын

@@LTVoyager Because there are 915’s already pushing 50” at 5800 which equals 160HP. I can assure you the 916 isn’t doing more than 160HP. How else can you convince the world the 916 iS is a “new” engine? 146HP at 45” doesn’t sound very different than 160HP at 50”, and it certainly doesn’t justify 9K more. I’m disappointed with how Rotax chose to proceed here.

50K!!!. Nope

I'm sorry, but that interview was all but useless---virtually no new information provided on the engine. Didn't even provide the weight!

Wow, so they literally just changed the tune and charge more money. What a joke

Cost wise..... A TOTAL RIP OFF !!! Bang for buck, one could do SO much better.

@Captndarty

Жыл бұрын

Prove it. Oh wait you can’t…. 🤷🏻‍♂️

@JustSomeGuy38790

Жыл бұрын

@@Captndarty I can. Yamaha Apex and it can be bumped up to 300 horse power maybe not for awhile but it’s been done

@zen8791

Жыл бұрын

@@Captndarty Bruh, stay salty that you over pay, keep drinking the soy

@GerardMiles

Жыл бұрын

Hayabusa. You can get 500 horse power out of these and a VERY reliable constant 380 horse power. Does that answer your question ??

@vitordelima

Жыл бұрын

@@GerardMiles I know there is a helicopter prototype in Japan using the engine from the Ninja H2 but I'm not so sure about this.

Rotax is overrated

@pilotavery

Жыл бұрын

How so

@franksanders7102

3 ай бұрын

Entirely correct they are totally overrated. Talking with a ROtax tech he says buy a Cont or Lyc! This is a guy who fixes them for a living!