good to see people keeping old traditions alive in the 21st century.

I have been watching your videos for awhile now and found them to be very educational to any fancier your knowledge in genes and history is what I'm more interested in. I used to keep tumblers back in NYC back in the 70's and now besides breeding homers I have made a separate small coop to breed rollers. Not to many roller breeders in Florida I was lucky to purchase 3 pairs from a pet shop who the owner had no idea in what they were, thanks for the informational videos you provide you are definitely very serious about your birds. Thank you Smitty

He put the mother bird back where he got the daughter bird from. Is that on purpose? Now he's gonna think the mother bird is the daughter bird.

love the videos keep them coming!!!!

when Birmingham Rollers were first developed in England they had clean leg and muff. I can't recall if they were just grouse legged or had the little boots, they don't note it in any of the records I have looked over dating back to the late 1800's. Not all birds carry grouse legs in their backgrounds, some could be attributed from a mutation but if you did DNA on your particular birds they can tell you if they were ever crossed. There are many in the US that have crossed various breeds in to BR to get specific colors or qualities. In the UK when the breed came about they were down from some tumblers but they are not sure what tumblers, it's all just speculation, however if you look at the heads on some of the imports you can see they are not all the same in bloodlines. Pigeons carry a lot of fast changing mutations and if you line breed you can create your own mutations specific to your own family of rollers.

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment you are correct but muff grouse and booted birds are all originated from the same source one can produce the other

@karneilemalisrealattackdog5437

7 жыл бұрын

Could I put brother and sister together and the daughter of them back to the cock or sud I put one cock over two hens 2 rounds each and then breed half brother and sister then put back to father I'm starting a family off my 2 best pairs both pair are identical small fast deep and tight bodies let me no thanks

@QBDad18

7 жыл бұрын

sure you can, with 2 pairs you can do a lot of breeding for many years without any worries. I would try to develop 1st cousins and half brother and sisters to try and work with. Yes you can breed them anyway you wish but developing a "line" I feel comes mostly from cousins and line breeding more then inbreeding. Just my preference. If pairs don't work or there are defects that take over just cull the babies and start over with another combination. All birds are not the same even full siblings in terms of genetics.

Nice info for you sam, Im from Philippines and Im new in breeding Birmingham roller. Keep it up bro Godbless

Well when I was younger you couldn’t put a Pigeon roller in the show with muffs because that doesn’t come to standard by Levi in his book the pigeon

This year i produced a muff with 2 clean leg. birds. But I know where it came from tho. I used birds from Juan Navarro and Arnold Jackson years ago to set the type and stability in my birds and they carried the muff gene.

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

klphoenixrollers yes I know both of them very well they have had muff birds throughout the Jackson and Navarro lines for years and I might add they are excellent performers in the air

I love your videos very informative

Awesome! ... I too have Booted rollers and clean legged.

I like the look of groose leg rollers

Ouch, there's some more misinformation here. Andalusian is when the indigo gene is expressed on a black pigeon (blue spread). So basically, you need indigo to get an andalusian. With that said, indigo is a dominant autosomal gene which means it cannot be "carried". If a bird has the indigo gene, it will be present. The very first bird Smitty handles is a dark check hen (t-velvet) which means if it has indigo in it, it would look very similar to andalusian. That dark check hen mated to another pigeon that is not an andalusian will not produce andalusian since the black hen cannot "carry" andalusian (technically indigo).

the problem with muffed birds is that some fanciers bred for muffs with no regard to performance. they even used the West of England to enhance the feather length on the feet..

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

klphoenixrollers excellent point thank you for your comment and please subscribe you are correct in saying that sometimes people breed with complete disregard for performance if you breed any type of roller and performance is not at the top of your priority list that's a problem in my opinion because you're not trying to improve the quality of the roll and these birds are performance birds they are bread for performance not color not muffs or any other attribute there is nothing wrong with having pretty birds I would personally prefer them pretty but one should never lose sight of the goal performance should always come first

Sam, what about Bellneck Rollers? Do they roll in flight as well as regular Birminghams? I have a few Bellnecks from Thomas S. Monson, who has bred Bellnecks for many years.

I do get what you are saying, but Dave Henderson is correct. The Grouse gene is a simple partial dominant. It along with the full muff (a genetic combination of Grouse and Slipper, based on most genetic theories) was once a very common feature in Birmingham Rollers. It was later selected away from due to the fact that they tended to pick up lots of mud, etc. in the Black Country climate. Pensom once said something to the effect "at one time most were all muffed or grouse" and in fact, the oldest line drawing we have of the Birmingham Roller (circa 1870's) displays a red cock imported directly from Birmingham to the States that is pretty well muffed. He would be barely recognizable as a Birmingham Roller to many breeders today (muffs, shorter beak, tumbler looking head and carriage) but at the time, he was said to represent what most of them looked like and was said to be a champion in the air. Needless to say, it is something that is in the background of ALL Birmingham Rollers. However, it would be a stretch to suggest that every family of rollers will eventually produce some grouse legged birds just because it's behind all of them. Even though it's "back there", some families do not possess the gene, the same way some families of Rollers may not possess say Ash Red, Rec. Red, Bronze, Grizzle or Spread. I have had one of my current families since the early 80's and they are heavily inbred and linebred (coming down originally from only 5 birds - mostly old 514 and Sister Hen blood and an old Plona hen, but that was a LONG time ago now). In that 30 years, there has NEVER been a single one with even a trace of grouse legs. It's just not a gene that the foundation birds possessed even though it was certainly "back there". I get Blue Bars, Dark Checks, Red Checks and Red Bars - all selfs. You seen one, you've seen them all. The original Plona hen was a Dark Tort, but for whatever reason, her only children and grandchildren that made it into the stock loft were a couple Dark Checks that did not inherit her grizzle gene. There was also an Old White Tic cock that was 98% white, but his best sons were Blue Bar Selfs. As a result, while there are grizzles and Torts "back there", the gene itself is no longer in the bloodline even though Grizzle is a dominant characteristic. I also don't get any badges or white-wingers either, even though "it's back there". Once a dominant gene disappears, even though "it's back there", it is "gone for good". You don't get it back without adding it back in with new blood. That is what also happened to the grouse leg in Birmingham Rollers. Some families still have it, others do not, even though it was a pretty common breed characteristic 120 years ago. When I was coming up in the 70's it had mostly disappeared except in some of the JLS blooded birds and it was kind of seen as a real oddity at the time unless you had a lot of that JLS blood. Lots of people used to say they were mutts because it was a rarity, but it just wasn't true and some of them could roll like hell. These days they are becoming more and more common because some folks like yourself appreciated them, realized that they could be fine rollers and have selected for it again because they like them. That is what it's all about. I like seeing them, so good for those guys. Funnily enough, in the old days, the West of England went the exact opposite direction because even though they are all muffed now, a century ago, many of them were clean legged and for whatever reason, the breeders started cultivating the ones with grouse legs and of course, since the gene is a partial dominant, it's pretty easy to make LOTS and LOTS of them. The bird in my icon, by the way, is actually one of those Clean Legged West of Englands that appeared in an old issue of "The Feathered World" before WW1. Those have all vanished even though "they are back there". So, much as Dave outlined, it really comes down to however you breed them and what sort of genes are in your genepool. You either have a gene or you don't. And genes can come and go in a family and may not last forever, especially when the BOPs are so bad that they eat you out of house and home and leave you with little to show for a breeding season unless you put one up early. Beyond that one criticism, good video, though. You did a pretty professional presentation.

how do you get a hole family of birds out of just one breeding pair of pigons

Very attractive moderate sized muffs. Looks good, especially when the muffs are white. I am amazed at how you can keep track of the genetics of so many individuals and blood lines. You never say what kind of rollers you have. Are they Birmingham? Or do you cross different breeds? I think your Blue Star line is the most beautiful body type. I think you must have a fun life. It rocks to be you. If I didn't live 2,000 miles away I would hang out with you!

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Dave life can be amazing it’s what you make of it with a positive outlook and great people like you it does rock my family’s mostly go back to 514 But I have quite a few different lines of families that I work with but the 514 stuff is my favorite

@davechristensen8299

4 жыл бұрын

@@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763 I don't know what 514 is.

Can you make a video how to tell a roller pigeon from a regular pigeon

This video made me a New subscribers. Awesome stuff

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks

Can you make a video please how to tell roller pigeon in case I want to buy one from someone

Damm I really want to get a pair of rollers but I ain’t allowed caus I got racer and high flyers 😭

Is their any way a person could purchase one or two pair I love these muffed birds

Im so pissed off, there was a white tortoise shell tumbler hanging about in my garden, he was tame so i started feeding it, and it got very friendly, then something maybe a cat got it, had to take it to animal refuge center with damaged wing, the vet said he will live but may not fly again, so im paying for his up keep, i feel so guilty. What lovely birds.

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

5 жыл бұрын

I’m very sorry to hear that hope you made it

@bmwnasher

5 жыл бұрын

@@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763 I phoned the animal rescue the other day, and the pigeon is ok, but the vet said he will not be able to fly owing to his wing, still he's safe in their aviary, my fault for feeding him, thanks to comment, I'm in England.

Hi brother my pigeon roller some skinny I don't know what happened to then do you know what medicine to treat the birds let me

Make one video on roller pigeons difference between high flyer

how to produce opal rollers

I watched one of ur videos n u were talking about the medicine u need in ur coop can u please help n send me the information it would be greatly appreciated thanks u

Are those Fireball Rollers you have?

sim nice muff I have my family of muff my family of birds throw clean leg boot leg and muff I like All your video

do you sell rollers? If so how much do you charge

How much money for roller pigeons??

How much for muff roller pigeon

How much for your muff pigeon roller

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

4 жыл бұрын

Leave me your contact info TheRollerpigeonevolution@gmail.com

You got any Muff for sale

do you have almond muff.?

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

Eric Patin Eric I don't have any but the best I have ever seen or had in the air or in a show pen come from the legendary Paul Gomez a true master of the muff with speed and style he is on the site just ask him he might let a pair go if your lucky

@ericpatin7937

7 жыл бұрын

i do plumbing for him but really time to at him birds we talk about birds i never seen them yet his real smart man ill gave him a call thank how much do you sell your white-bar for like a proven pair?ij so you call me at 323-363-8984 and you very need some plumbing work ill take of you we can barter for the work you buy the parts and barter for birds on the labor side i"ll back after may 1st .driving back from northfield ,ma.thanks god bless

Why do you handle your birds so roughly ?

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

Raw Raw lol I would never intentionally hurt my birds it's more of not wanting them to get away their natural instinct is to get away from us to to scape to them we are predators just like the falcon his eyes are in the front of his head that makes him a predator our eyes are in the front of our head that makes as a predator so the birds are naturally afraid of us I have lost many birds by not acting swiftly what appears to you to be rough just a very quick move in order to secure them make sure they don't get away thank you for your concern their safety and health is always first

You must be a teacher bro ..

So Basically there Not Muffs, They're Bootlegs!🤔

Would he sale a pair of these birds

@therollerpigeonevolutionsm7763

7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, there are some available for sale.

@pigeonman1036

7 жыл бұрын

Roller Pigeon Evolution Smitty/Danny I'm still interested