Itosu died in 1915, Otsuka started Karate in 1922… don’t shoot me for insinuating these two met… clearly Otsuka learned Rohai from a student of Itosu. This is beside the point of the video though, we’re trying to embrace diversity, not snipe every word for accuracy. Let’s keep it civil (as most of you do already 😁)

Rohai and meikyo i practiced and studying

Thanks again for featuring my Rohai in this video. Honored!

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Of course! Maybe we can help each other growing our channels (I left a link to yours in the description)

@PracticalTangSooDo

2 жыл бұрын

@@timthenunes, appreciate it! Thank you.

Bueno, aunque mucha de la información que este vídeo muestra lo consideraba certero, ahora con mas datos investigados y más práctica puedo afirmar lo siguiente: 1. El nombre okinawense es Lohai aunque en la forma latinizada es presentada como Rohai. 2. Es una Kata que no tiene nada que ver con los estilos de la Grulla Blanca ni del Sur ni del Norte de China. 3. Aunque el nombre de la Kata actualmente se escribe con los kanji 鷺牌 en realidad estos fueron presentados por el Sensei Ryusho Sakagami en su libro de Katas de Itosu-Kai. Lo que en realidad tenemos es el nombre fonético ローハイ pues los kanji se perdieron alrededor de 1885. 4. La Kata que se efectúa en el estilo Wado-ryu fue aprendida por el Maestro Hironori Otshuka directamente de Kenwa Mabuni del Shito-ryu, en este último estilo es llamada Itosu Rohai Shodan pues es la primera de las tres variantes creadas por Anko Itosu a partir de la Kata Matsumora Rohai. 5. La Kata fue empezada a ser enseñada en Tomari por Kosaku Matsumora y aunque se ha teorizado que puedo haberla aprendido de su Maestro Kanryu Uku, se sabe que ninguno de los otros discípulos de Uku la enseñaba, por lo que su origen quedaba incierto. 6. Ahora sabemos que esta Kata es una Forma de la Familia de Lau Lai Ahnan apodado ''Chinto', 'Jion' o 'Channan' que fue un monje taoista que naufragó cerca de la costa de Tomari y se refugió en una cueva durante un tiempo, la Familia Matsumora le dio cobijo en su residencia antes de volver a China, en agradecimiento estuvo enseñando distintas cosas a distintos guerreros de acuerdo a sus habilidades y esta Kata fue una de ellas, era llamada originalmente 'Kuan Muan' o 'Reflejo de la Grulla'. De hecho el nombre okinawense Lohai significa 'Reflejo' y es por eso que en el Shotokan esta Kata es llamada Meikyo o ''Espejo'. 7. La Forma mas cercana a la versión original es la Kata del estilo Matsubayashi-ryu del Sensei Shoshin Nagamine. 8. En el Shito-ryu erróneamente se la ha llamado Matsumura Rohai debido a una confusión en la pronunciación de los kanji, el nombre correcto es Matsumora Rohai y aunque existe una versión llamada Matsumura Rohai esta no es conocida ni practicada por el Shito-ryu sino por el Matsumura Seito Shorin-ryu. 9. La versión antigua llamada Kuan Muan es practicada por el grupo Ahnan Tomari-Te en Texas y California en USA y existe un libro donde viene la Kata completa en fotos, este se llama "The Okinawan Kata of Ahnan - Volume 1: The Battle Forms: Chin Su, Chin Pe, Rohai, Unibu" y pueden encontrarlo a la venta en Amazon.

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the information!

I study matsumura rohai from shito-ryu as it is beautiful and simple

I practice Meikyo from Shotokai style. Good video. Thanks for sharing. You have my like.

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words!

Saying Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do don't come from Japan is like saying karate didn't come to Japan from Okinawa. The originators all studied karate in Japan before developing their art, which is why the original kata were altered forms of Shotokan kata.

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Cool

@WutangShinobi

Ай бұрын

Won Kuk Lee is one of the original Korean Masters to have studied Shotokan under Funakoshi, and brought back to Korea. First named it Tang Soo Do, then changed to Chung Do Kwan. Hwang Kee adopted TSD name for his style of Karate named Hwah Soo Do.

@WutangShinobi

Ай бұрын

The original TSD/Chung Do Kwan incorporated the Traditional Pinan forms, Naihanchi, Bassai, Jion, Kanku Sho and Kanku Dai, ect.

@WutangShinobi

Ай бұрын

Thank you 🙏🏼

Great content! I do Wadoryu Rohai...

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, by the way, does your Rohai look a little like mine?

@SenseiMaharaj

2 жыл бұрын

@@timthenunes We practice Ohtsuka Hironori Sensei's version. 😊

Rohai sounds kind of like Lohan is you replace the R with and L. Doesnt really seem to be a heron style. Tomari Rohai even looks very Fujian Lohan forms.

@timthenunes

9 ай бұрын

Thanks for your input, however i can only base my explanations on what I learned myself. I am not of Japanese descend so I usually assume I got it wrong. Replacing L with R is wrong, as these aren’t letters known by the Okinawans. Rohai means Heron, refers to a bird indigenous to Okinawa, that kind of looks like a Crane 🤷‍♂️

@teovu5557

9 ай бұрын

@@timthenunes Thats why I say Rohai would make more sense in English if it was written as Lohai since the ら in Japanese and okinawan is closer to the L sound. As is most Fujian Chinese dialects as well. Iain Abernethy’s and Okinawan karate researcher Akio Kinjo points out that the characters 鹭牌 for Rohai would be pronounced “Lù pái” in Chinese and that “Rohai” is the Okinawan pronunciation of the same characters. Rohai is also commonly written as 羅漢 in Okinawa which is shared with same characters for Lohan(As in Shaolin Lohan Quan form) in Chinese but in the accent of southern Fujian it would be pronounced Lohai/Rohai. (remember Monk boxing(lohan Quan) is also mentioned in the Bubishi not just Crane boxing) While Goju Ryu and Toon ryu are definitely of mixed Monk and crane origin, most kata from shuri region seems to have stronger similarities to Southern Lohan Quan(monk boxing) example these Monk boxing forms- kzread.info/dash/bejne/jJOquLepds-9drQ.html

@teovu5557

9 ай бұрын

@@timthenunes Whats y our take on Tensho the form created by Goju ryu founder? he was said to have been infleunced by a white crane form in China during his visit. Could it have been this fujian white crane form? looks somewhat similar. kzread.info/dash/bejne/o2l2uqmjibSddbg.html Tensho kzread.info/dash/bejne/eGqcm7CxecTTqLQ.html

I practice the Kishaba Juku version of Rohai. Give me please a little bit time for recording a video with performance and bunkai, I am completely untrained and out of shape. 🙏🙏🏽

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

I’ll look forward to it!

Nope Ohtsuka never studied with Itosu.Itosu died 11 March 1915 so its imposible.Ohtsuka must have learned it from Mabuni when they trained together or Funakoshi before the changes maybe?but certainly not from Itosu because he was already dead before karate reached the mainland.

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for pointing that out. For the sake of accuracy, I pinned a comment on top of the video. As for learning it from Mabuni, I’m not 100% sure of that, as Otsuka definitely trained under Motobu, and might have learned it from him. Apologies for the mistake, I’m not trying to spread misinformation

Maybe I'm too selfish and arrogant; Could it be that my last post on "Rohai" with the versions in Kishaba Juku and Matsubayashi-Ryu was an impetus for this video? :)

@timthenunes

2 жыл бұрын

Impetus might be a little strong, as I was planning to do a video about Rohai anyway, but I noticed a lot of interest on the different media for this Kata, so I decided to make it a little sooner… was fun to synch up with Otsuka though 😁