Congrats on another great flight, love this project! Would love more technical details on Momo 😺

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

Thank you! Momo is a very good assistant, his favorite spot to hang out is typically right in the middle of whatever i'm working on :)

@BPSspace

6 ай бұрын

@@LafayetteSystems Classic :) Apologies if this is already covered, but are you controlling roll with all 4 fins? You might try controlling roll with only two surfaces, or even one if you wanna get funky with it. I'm doing a bunch of fin simulation stuff right now and finding that the surfaces you need in order to control pitch and yaw will almost always be super overpowered for the roll axis, which you can solve with either super high precision servos or cutting the "active" surfaces for roll in half. Or just gettin lose with the derivative gain!

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

Right now I'm using all four for roll, but I was thinking about trying it with just 2. Maybe I'll give that a shot next flight and we can see how it goes! From sims I know there's a q above which roll control is wobbly, largely based on servo precision and mechanism backlash. In theory, having half of the fins involved in roll control means that dynamic pressure limit could be doubled. I'll sim it up a bit and see how servo backlash, slew rate and servo precision play with fewer fins involved in roll. It might turn out that there's some speed above which you should use 2 fins and below which you should use more. That wouldn't be a hard system to implement but I will let you know what I find out!

@BPSspace

6 ай бұрын

@@LafayetteSystems Sounds good! Best of luck and lookin forward to seeing more!

@MichaelOfRohan

6 ай бұрын

Lmao like you didnt sell him mgs... wow this is getting strange.

i love how you clarified multiple times that the camera isnt a seeker so you dont get a visit from secret services

@robinbiskupic2639

6 ай бұрын

I suspect he may have had a visit from them already. Hence the repetitive note that he's not making a missile. That being said I feel like the ultimate achievement in amateur rocketry is to get a visit from the secret service 😂

@Peter_S_

6 ай бұрын

@@robinbiskupic2639 Better keep your house clean and ready for lots of visitors in that case. If you build it, they will come. 😂

@duckykaze9557

3 ай бұрын

Or Raytheon pulling up

@Studio23Media

Ай бұрын

I mean look at the thing. It looks like a damn anti-aircraft missile, complete with the crate and all. 🤣🤣

The best KZread channels are the ones where the maker has abandoned all hope of avoiding an FBI or DHS watchlist.

@rock3tcatU233

5 ай бұрын

Government helicopters better be ready, because we're getting so close.

@mvstahl1233

4 ай бұрын

@@rock3tcatU233 after that comment, were definitely in the watchlist.

@RandomFandomOfficial

Ай бұрын

@@rock3tcatU233 Fox Three!

Congratulations! Having some experience developing a guided, silo-launched missile, I am very impressed by what you have done here. The fact you have been able to create a flight control system that keeps your missile stable is a testimony to a lot of hours of hard math work on your part, I suspect. A couple thoughts, FWIW: 1) Your raceway may be creating some of that roll bias. The raceway must be well aligned with the body axis or it'll put an asymmetric force on your vehicle. Given the time your roll is showing up, I suspect you are also seeing a bit of a compressibility-related issue with that raceway but that's also made more well-behaved by ensuring it is aerodynamically smooth and aligned with the body axis. 2) Again, on the roll issue, solid rocket motors can create a roll moment. It's tough to model, but you may be getting some roll torque out of the SRMs at certain points in their burn so consider making some allowances for that in your math. Overall... you are doing amazing things. Very impressed.

There was one thing they drilled into us when I was undergoing AIT training as a 15D Lance missile Crewman at Fort Sill, OK. " Sharks have Fins......guided Missiles have Control Surfaces ".

Lol, gotta love the “ok ok, hear me out, I promise this isn’t a sidewinder” disclaimer 😂

Every once in a blue moon the KZread algorithm shoves something in your face that, upon closer inspection, is actually really cool. Instant sub

this feels so strange, watching a civilian develop, in essence, a TV-guided missile. (CORRECTION: Totally not a TV guided missile, just a self-guided rocket with a video cam, which is kinda awesome.

@juhotuho10

5 ай бұрын

it's like only couple of steps away from a video guided missile

@RandomFandomOfficial

Ай бұрын

Can have AGM-62 Walleye? AGM-62 Walleye at home:

I am loving this series so far! Great work on Diamond-X!

@aw_dev

6 ай бұрын

Even if the rocket isn't "guided" per se, the camera dome makes it look badass. Again, great work!

For legal reasons, this is not a SM2.

@zahnatom

5 ай бұрын

for legal reasons it is not capable of tracking aircraft and guiding itself based on said non existent track

I love the way your project looks and works. Obvious sign of excellence is the flawless execution.

good god man it's staggering the defense contractor vibes coming from this. Also, very awesome rocket.

Amazing what can be done with technology available everywhere today. 3d Printers are a big help as well. Congrats and never stop learning and challenging yourself. Very cool!

Well done young man! I wish I had 3D printers in the early 80’s when I was a teenager and making rockets. I served 26 years in the Army as a Tank Destroyer (11H) and we used the TOW missile. We had various improvements over the years but the missile pretty much stayed the same apart from the warhead until the “top attack” variant. Having the flight motor in the center of the missile kept the missile CG stable in flight as fuel was exhausted. The ABOL motor ejected the missile and propelled it up to flight speed then the flight motor ignited and after fuel exhaustion it coasted to target at 4,000 meters. I think your rear flight fins might need to be wider (elongating away from the rocket) to provide more stability. As your motor burns your computer is dealing with many factors at the same time and the fuel burns very quickly in your rocket so maybe adjust the profile of the rear fins and use a slower burning motor to allow the computer to be able to process the flight profile. The TOW uses a flight motor that uses two exhaust ports on each side of the missile that’s angled at 45 degrees and there’s many videos on YT to display how that works. Your flight motor would need to be made out of some allow or ceramic which means more weight so it may not work in your design. You can also try various types of flight fins/wings that will fold in for use in your launch container and are under spring tension then they lock into place once in flight. The French HOT missile uses fins that are curved to fold against the missile body and with that you can use any size/profile you come up with. To have actual “flying” fins that generate lift in some manner takes more planning but I don’t know if that’s an option for you. I think an ejection/launch motor that’s in a puck type cell and falls off once exhausted to expose the exhaust cone of the primary motor which ignites immediately after the launch motor burns out. Overall, you’re doing great, thanks for sharing your successes with us.

Getting on a watch list any%

Getting into actively controlled find and I think this will help extremely useful!

Great project and good video's man

The 5 degrees could be many things from slight shift in the sensor board to control linkage play to surface imperfections on the controls themselves. Awesome project

Most commercial acceleration sensors are limited in this exact scenario (for obvious reasons) which leads me to believe that your yaw might be a bad reading.

@steveadams7550

Ай бұрын

2 axis accelerometers for pitch and yaw, usually 2 gs and 1 axis accelerometer for vertical, for 9 to 20 gs.

another reason to be on whatever list I'm currently on

Excellent video of an awesome project!

Congratulations on a great flight! And 8:25 that looks like the bestest BOI

I do understand why this is not a seeker on the nose but it would be really intresting if it was. There is a lot of engineering to make an actual seeking system. Dont know how much processing power you controller has but with some basic image processing you could track a target on the clear sky. Such a rocket could be used as a reusable drone interceptor if the nose has some thin metal armor.

Momo looks like a good supervisor.

@Peter_S_

6 ай бұрын

Goes without saying that cats are management. Dogs think they're human, cats understand they're superior.

Great stuff. Idk if anyone has suggested it yet, but to reduce recovery distance put an altitude sensor for parachute deployment or even time delay on deployment. Just a thought. Best of luck going forward

I love how the force of the hot launch created its own exhaust port.

@RingingResonance

4 ай бұрын

Might just brute force that problem with some 4" cast iron pipe down at the bottom in a 'U' shape to redirect the hot exhaust upward.

@Dexteritas55

4 ай бұрын

@@RingingResonance work smart not hard just make the exhaust at the bottom. They only redirected it up for the chance at a cinematic moment but we can’t even see the exhaust as most blasts out the bottom.

Great video and project, you can compensate for the fin bias by including the states into your Kalman filter and thus estimate the bias. The natural damping of the rocket varies with the square of the air-speed that creates the torque on the fins, and it is also directly proportional to the air density which varies as a function of altitude of course, and also with respect to the initial conditions on the ground such as temperature, absolute pressure, and relative humidity.

ive been waiting for this

An idea for preventing the rails parts on the outside from being offset and crooked is to design the parts in a way, they can be slid into each other like a puzzle piece. If you do it in this way, they can still be replaced without disassembling the whole rail, while kepping them alligned properly.

damn bro sick video

Respomse is a bit slow! I think increasing the Kp and Kd gains (for Faster response and lower osscilations) would help out! But this stuff is so COOLLLLL!! We make Drones at 8OL Robotics, with custom FCs but one day I wanna get into model rocketry! You and @BPSspace are the inspiration!

Defenetly subscribed

very cool

Great project ! The simulation is quite good which is not easy to achieve. You might consider using ramp changes to setpoints rather than step changes. Your plant can't follow a step change which increases error, making the control work harder. Step changes also can excite more undesirable dynamics in your plant. You can use your simulation to determine a suitable ramp rate of change which your control system could follow with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

1:49 It is too round on the top, it needs to be pointy. Round is not scary, pointy is scary.

@nothisismyopinion

6 ай бұрын

But my glorious leader, the top has no affect on the rocket’s effectiveness.

@beanieteamie7435

6 ай бұрын

Look up what the AIM-9 looks like. Round is definitely scary.

@gkalkowsky

6 ай бұрын

@@beanieteamie7435 oh maybe it's a movie quote: kzread.info/dash/bejne/YqGJxM-DYZDZftY.html

@AximiliEsgarrouth1

6 ай бұрын

@@beanieteamie7435 Ever heard about the Meteor missile? A way more capable and scarier missile with 10x the aim-9s range. With the aim-9 the enemy just thinks a robot d**** is flying towards them.

brilliant.

This is such a great project!! maybe next time at the being of the video say why you are developing the DIAMOND-X Because I forgot😅😅

Looking at the plots would suggest to me that your primary position control loop proportional gain looks too high and your integral gain probably a little low. Or an interaction between this control loop and the Fin position control loop. How are you compensating for the phase lag between the actuator motion and the vehicle motion?

This is awesome. Truly inspiring stuff here. What software do you use to model the rocket and it's internals? Love it all. Please keep making more!

For better fin alignment you could print a guide which slips over the motor mount and has two flexible arms, that "wrap" the fin. If the fin is out of alignment the flexible arms would be driven away from each other, the closer they are together, the better the fin alignment is. Well, unless the alignment guide is misaligned. This thing has do be printed/manufactured very precise. You could even automate the alignment that way with two contacts touching if the arms are perfectly aligned.

Have you considered gyro stabilized fins like on the sidewinder? Have the outermost 20% of the fin able to articulate a few degrees from the main portion of the fin, with gyro wheels in the tips. Aerodynamic forces can spin up the gyros without any additional power. The idea is that the gyro will cause the tips of the fins to resist the random movements of the rocket giving the computer less to do. At a certain point, say 10% of total designed fin range of motion, you want the gyro stabilized section of fin to follow the main section, so make stops in the bearing so the fin moves together when the guidance system commands movement.

@sheldoniusRex

6 ай бұрын

Look up the AIM 9 Sidewinder. The mechanism is pretty simple, and ridiculously effective at dampening random yaw.

@sheldoniusRex

6 ай бұрын

In case I was insufficiency clear in my OP, the (gyro stabilized) outer section of fin should only be capable of limited movement independent of the main section of fin, but should be completely free to move within that limit. Let's say you have the fins capable of a total of ten degrees of deflection when commanded by the guidance system, the outer section should only be allowed to move one or two degrees relative to the main section. That way, even when the little gyro wheels are trying to resist your programmed flight commands they will be dragged along to roughly follow the control fin, while their independence provides dampening of random movement. All you need are physical stops preventing excess movement, not any additional powered control mechanism.

@Pman353

6 ай бұрын

This is a great idea!! (Especially since it looks a little like the SM-3😂)

@marthinwurer

6 ай бұрын

People have tried rollerons on amateur rockets before, but they aren't very good at smaller scales or when launched without being spun up on the ground.

@sheldoniusRex

6 ай бұрын

@@marthinwurer good to know.

Nice

Your cat looks just like our Teddy who died way too young

Using a drogue chute to stabilize decent, and a main chute when you determine the altitude for main would keep the drift down to a minimum

6 ай бұрын

Could use Jolly Logic as a fast solution

Congratulations! This looks very inspiring! Where do you learn all of this?

im a little curious why you would use a parachute vs deploying stowed/retractable wings (like a jsow?) and glide home if youve already got a flight controller onboard?

I thought your cat was going to be called Mr Bigglesworth then 🤣 I would have been a bit concerned

amazing flight! Great engineering and design for the rocket. Will you attempt a cold launch in the future?

for the printed fins try using gyroid infill instead of cube

Some older missiles and bombs (like the AGM-62 Walleye) were TV Guided. Making it guided via camera shouldn't be too difficult lol. 🤣

Looks great! What motor did this fly on? Looked pretty boosty but also burned for pretty long. Super impressive control system, are you able to provide more details about your flight computer? (MCU, sensors, fusion algorithms)

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

This was on a CTI H118, it has a pretty regressive burn profile which is nice for these launches. Part of the build series I'm editing will be on avionics and I can go into more detail on the flight computer in part 2!

@polarisbear7468

6 ай бұрын

@@LafayetteSystems Awesome! Looking forward to it

What a launch and vehicle! I could’ve believe the rocket drifted that far. btw what was the apogee altitude?

Really great work! What's the diameter of the rocket on video ? ~ 50 mm right

ngl you did inspire me to make my own silo tho im still consiering the best way to open both the doors. cause i kinda want it to work off of one motor and not require 1 per side. however, im unsure of how stable it will be

when will we get the open source aim 9 we all need ?

Congratulations. It was a really exciting project. Can you tell me what you used to create the simulation environment at 13:27?

Just came across this channel, the logo is very similar to the one used by a gaming group I was a part of roughly 10 years ago

Could the roll be caused by difference in fin/wing pitches?

Itd be cool to make a quick disconnect point on the vehicle so the battery can be armed remotely

So, how high did it get .. missing that one. Nice VID 🙂

A few thoughts: Do you know how fast you can move your control surfaces and limit your control response to that? If your commands exceed the response speed it can induce oscillation. If you can monitor the actual control surface position vs commanded position, it can help to see if the surfaces are actually pointing where you command them. You mentioned oscillations in the simulation prior to flight. Why not adjust the control parameters in the simulation to hit what would be critical damping? Cool project!

This is incredibly impressive work. Whats your education history?

Very cool. I wonder what the innate servo/servo system delay (lag) time is. Maybe that's triggering the oscillations. Does your computer model allow for, and assign any value for servo response lag? Maybe insert a value in that, to see if you get an oscillation similar to what you're seeing in flight data. ?? Incredible work you've done here! Edit... maybe under G and wind force, there is unexpected friction in the fin mechanism. Things rubbing, catching, becoming jerky, etc.

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

Thank you for the comment! I have a couple control nonlinearities modeled in the sim. The main ones are a fin transfer function and a few ms linear time delay between control command and fin actuation. I haven’t directly measured either of these so they’re guesstimates at best. Those are definitely areas for improvement going forward. I’ve also been experimenting with some more complicated frequency domain controllers to try and circumvent some of the nonlinear effects but that’s very much a work in progress.

I was wondering how symmetrical the rocket engine burns, i.e., are there portions inside the chamber that would contribute to uneven weight distribution affecting the preloaded profile data? I am probably way off, just don't know if it is a solid motor or has channels in the propellant. Either way, there would be a change in center of mass due to mass being burned off.

Looks like an asraam

Also... to prevent it from drifting so far, have it deploy the parachute at a lower altitude.

Nicely done! How do you cope with the BATF? Controllable rockets are technically 'munitions' I'm told.. ;-)

Firing! VLS!

hi, which software tool did you used for plotting the graphics to analize ?

Opp, well, he's on a list

Can you share the specific law that prohibits the development of a seeker system in US?

Güzel bir çalışma olmuş.merak ettim roket motoru nedir.senmi yaptın.

Why isn't the silo cylindrical? Wouldn't that limit the stress?

ratheon knocking at your door with a contract soon

What Engine are you using? I would like to build a similar Project!

What purpose does the flame vent serve? I'd think that setting the rocket itself on a pusher plate that more or less seals in the silo and just letting the pressure build up and push everything out would be more efficient use of the fuel. Given everyone (up thought and including the USN ship launched SAMs) seems to use vents, I'm guessing I'm missing something interesting. Things that come to mind: - Legal issues (i.e. how to prevent it from legally being a cannon). - Making the dynamics of a silo launch similar to an open launch. - Preserving the silo for subsequent use. - Preventing over pressure in the silo blowing the sides off. - Preventing over pressure in the silo blowing the bottom off. - Preventing over pressure in the fuel grain from causing it to burn too fast (RUD). - Limiting peak acceleration. The first two issues aside (which don't apply to some other designs that also use a vent), the rest seem like solvable design challenges. - A metal lined silo should be tolerant of a short pulse of hot gas. - Side wall pressure should be containable with something like a COPV (fiberglass wrapped and glued around 6 inch PVC drain pipe?). - End pressure shouldn't be an issue (as long as the end plate is sitting on solid ground there should be almost no opportunity to transfer force to the tube). - Fuel burn rates could be solved ether by choice of fuel or by giving the pusher plate it's own fuel grain/sheet/bag/etc. (which would also allow things like doping it with an endothermic gas generator like ammonium bicarbonate to keep the temperature down). - Peak acceleration could be solved the same as the last item or by just designing things to take it.

@marthinwurer

6 ай бұрын

Iirc it's mostly a heat and force management thing. He previously had problems with a metal heat shield burning through, and you could see here that the pressure from the exhaust gasses blew the side panel out.

@benjaminshropshire2900

6 ай бұрын

@@marthinwurer I was hoping it wasn't one of the reasons I already speculated on in the original comment. (That wouldn't offer anything new to learn.) They might explain why the OP would do that but as I already mentioned, those are both trivial to solve and wouldn't explain why operations with much larger budgets do the same thing.

I believe the Control Surfaces are oscillating because you insist on calling them Fins.

Great Which Matlab toolbox/library did you use to simulate the rocket?

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

I have a simulink model built around the 6-DOF block from the aerospace blockset. You can probably get around using that by just directly coding the Euler Moment Equations (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler%27s_equations_(rigid_body_dynamics)) if you don't have that block available. Everything else is just calculating forces and moments from aerodynamics, thrust and gravity

Duct tape works to keep walls of launch silos together

Just a suggestion but have you thought about using a bit more integral in the pid controllers you showed in the first two plots?... This will help you get to setpoint faster. Also presumably you know this already but it looks like the gain or derivative is too high for your roll controller and its borderline unstable... Otherwise great work and looks amazing!

@rizalardiansyah4486

6 ай бұрын

Say I add a bit of that integral coeff, and I got even more oscillation. What would be the best thing to do to handle this oscillation? Add more derivative?

@alexwishart827

6 ай бұрын

@@rizalardiansyah4486 yes but it depends how your derivative is calculated and the form of your pid (series/parallel). Derivative can be affected by noise so the best implementations I've seen use a lowpass filter with a very short TC to smooth out the PV before calculating derivative. Also oscillation under integral action can be a result of stick/slip in the servo... Sometimes a bit of integral headband can be the cure for this. That and reducing gain... Hope this helps 😃

Technically if one of your fins was damaged during launch the pitch and yaw movements will create roll movements. The one fin was damaged in the landing video but it could have been slightly damaged during takeoff.

@unacceptableminority7101

4 ай бұрын

It would also account for you not getting the fins exactly straight if you did.

You want to experiment with cold launches? Or would that over complicate things?

This is so cool, almost like rocket science. Just kidding, it is rocket science.

Rollerrons are key!

When the pin broke off that's when all that craziness happened

It seems to me there’s going to be a huge difference in control effectiveness with change in velocity, and one would expect that’s not even a linear function of velocity for the case of transonic and supersonic flight. Does your control system have some sort of velocity estimate and a function to change control constants as the flight progresses?

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

You're right, control effectiveness is largely a function of dynamic pressure! Particularly for roll control, it's important to account for how q changes during flight

@edmarciniak7612

6 ай бұрын

@@LafayetteSystems, in long range target shooting…the center of pressure changes with Mach number, and that affects bullet stability. The center of pressure isn’t necessarily fixed either.

Question: Where did you fly this at?. Is it the field on Federal Road in Cederville OH.

@LafayetteSystems

6 ай бұрын

That’s where this one was flown! I’ll be back at WSR in the coming months for some more launches :)

Sick rocket but now I care more about that atlas hot launch system

Why dont you install an altimeter to the parachute charge? It will go off at a lower altitude on its return.

So how long do you all think it will be before people start making homemade heat seeking SAMs?

@kevinkipkorir3132

Ай бұрын

😂😂😂at this rate someone has already made them they are just afraid to share it on youtube.

Bro didn't rely on the government to protect his house.

next: guided supersonic ballistic missile

What does a person need to look up to see if seeker head development is legal? I'm just curious about it from the technical standpoint. I haven't played with model rockets since grade scale.

@aEtherEater

6 ай бұрын

In the US, look up the electronic Code of Federal Regulations. Congress passed a law around 2004 as part of their anti-terrorism fervor to ban all citizens from owning anything that can guide with 'energy' to an aircraft. It reads like a straight up breach of the 2nd amendment. That is on the only instance I have found so far besides the typical ITAR stuff.

@NavySturmGewehr

6 ай бұрын

@@aEtherEater I remember a time in your history where citizens who owned their own battleships was not questioned. Or when you could bring back weapons from a war zone and keep them. Canada was like that too at one point. Freedom has fallen a long way from where we were.

@jonathanbuzzard1376

5 ай бұрын

@@aEtherEater Banning owning a nuclear artillery shell breaks the 2nd amendment 🙂

son you made a Javelin Missile

Why would a seeker be illegal? I can see a warhead being illegal, but a seeker?

@Taygetea

6 ай бұрын

targetting a point in space or an object is the illegal part

@DyslexicDancer

6 ай бұрын

@@Taygetea What law is that specifically?

@bearcatben4762

3 ай бұрын

@@DyslexicDancer 18 US Code § 2332g makes it illegal to produce any missile that has the capability of being guided to an aircraft. It was created in the cold war to stop "terrorism". check the Wikipedia page for the 18th US criminal code chapter 113 for more information.

KZread knows what i like. I like building things. And i like rockets. LETSSS GOOOOO!!!!!! Its illegal to build a legit guiding rocket? How do i get a license?

@bearcatben4762

3 ай бұрын

It is illegal to make a guided rocket unfortunately per 18 US Code § 2332g. Definitely its still fun to build rockets below that kind of sophistication and you should do it.

Wait you cant make a seeker head in the us? I figured as long as you design and code it yourself there wouldn't be anything they could do.

@mrbloodmuffins

5 ай бұрын

The relevant law is 18 US Code § 2332g which covers guided missile systems. I think putting a seeker in this rocket won't be in violation but the its probably not worth risking unless you get a lawyer to look at it.

bros gonna make a shaped charge warhead soon

What if the camera is auto-tracking and guides the rocket.

Are y’all based out of Lafayette Louisiana