Hey just to clear up some discussion that happened on the twitter post, you're probably wondering *why* I didn't immediately rush BC; if I rush BC, I die. It's as simple as that in the matchup, Tabi's are required or boots in general are required against Sion so he doesn't poke you down with his E-Q combo, you need the MS to dodge E, you need the MS to not get hit by fully stacked Q's, Wardens + Grasp combo makes the matchup unplayable, this is me absurdly ahead, I have low CS due to the enemy jungler pressuring around topside whenever I had killed Sion, I wasn't able to push the waves in time or capitalise on plates due to potential proximity of Graves or just being 1HP in general AFTER killing Sion. I was also dove by the Graves which denied me about 3 waves, my build path was Caulfields > Long sword Tabis at 8 minutes, I never had the option to complete BC in a timely manner. Hope that clears some things up!

@Rivalrvn

Жыл бұрын

^ this is the player in the clip!

@TonytheCapeGuy

Жыл бұрын

Neat. :O

@rebull8262

Жыл бұрын

It is what it is

@BlahBohogun

Жыл бұрын

Dumb question would a wits end help in that matchup?

@Z3ZP

Жыл бұрын

@@BlahBohogun Not particularly.

Urgot's W gives him basically 3.0 attack speed (fixed). In exchange, the damage of each auto is reduced. Warden's passive counts for EACH of the attacks, thus becoming about 3x more effective against Urgot than most other AA-based champs.

@akostraakostra33

Жыл бұрын

just a clickbait title what did you expect? i think only ones that are mind blowned my this video are the ones that are either new to the game or dont know how anything works

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Also works against Ashe's Q. And if you want to add more salt to injury - pick Amumu against Urgot/Ashe and build Warden and watch how much damage they deal.

@squirrel8121

Жыл бұрын

@@akostraakostra33 this is broken what do you mean

@Frank_Art

Жыл бұрын

In truth Urgot W DMG is as effective as he having like ~1.2 attack speed (so, 1 attack speed item and runes or somthing like that), is basically to trigger it's passive which is his DMG

@deadass849

Жыл бұрын

@@akostraakostra33 ok but wardens is still like one of the best early tank items to rush what are you on about

Urgot's biggest counter has always been rushing a Warden's Mail, especially since he mainly goes PTA. This has been a thing since before durability patch, but it's certainly gotten better and better.

@serenolopez-darwin1975

Жыл бұрын

Lol yeah I've been doing this on Ornn into Urgot for 3 years it's nothing new.

@Lynn-iw2ds

Жыл бұрын

Should be gutted, and i dont even play urgot, urgot does well into my champ

@VexRep

Жыл бұрын

@@Lynn-iw2ds Yeah riot should keep nerfing tank items and keep buffing adc and mages 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

@Lynn-iw2ds

Жыл бұрын

@@VexRep nah they should nerf t hose as well

@luka-od5el

Жыл бұрын

@@VexRep first 7 words were facts

Sion "Man this Minion is annoying, it keep shooting me and then throwing me"

Urgot. The only champ in the game that has a spell that makes autos not be counted as autos for the good part of autos (crit chance and some other stuff) but still be autos for the bad part (damage reduction, mostly).

@Shikaschima

Жыл бұрын

Uhm. Ashe. Ashe exists.

@santumi2298

Жыл бұрын

@@Shikaschima No because Ashe has the highest crit damage in the game lmfao

@Shikaschima

Жыл бұрын

@@santumi2298 yeah, no. She needs an extraordinary amount of items for that to actually be true. And guess what? Her Q still gets obliterated by Wardens, full crit or not.

@Shikaschima

Жыл бұрын

@@santumi2298 you know what? Imma go back on what I just said. Ashe is worse than urgot's W because unlike him, her Q still counts as crits. Guess what? Urgot's doesn't get reduced by Randuin's, Ashe's does. Also, guess what? Ashe and Urgot apply the same amount of on hits with that ability. Even more so, Urgot applies it quicker because his W has a higher Attack Speed than Ashe has unless she has lethal tempo. Which Urgot doesn't need. He has Pta instead which boosts his damage, applies after *one second*, faster than any other champion in the game and still goes above 2.5 Attackspeed with his W. But sure, Ashe has less trouble because she still can crit. Wow. How useful that is against a Randuin's Omen, which reduces her Attack Damage TWICE on her Q. Not to mention, guess who isn't affected by Frozen Heart? Yeah, Urgot. Guess who is. Ashe. Now shut it with the nonsense "But Ashe has the highest Crit Damage". She may. With 3 items. And yet, her damage output gets topped by most adcs because their crits hit way harder than ashe's do. Can't believe I have to spell all this out, fml.

@fastcow7013

Жыл бұрын

@@Shikaschima seethe

Fun fact, Gaurdian's Horn on ARAM has a similar effect except its 15 flat instead of 5 Extremely good against multi-hit champions like urgot, belveth, etc

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

i love this item and almost always buy it lol it gives insane amounts of survivability

@brydonthunder

Жыл бұрын

Guardians horn is not as good because it is pre-mitigation. This means that it blocks 15 initial damage and doesn't take into account your own defences.Wardens mail is POST-mitigation so it does, giving the smaller block amount more value based on the fact your armour stats and used to absorb the brunt already.

@westomopresto

Жыл бұрын

@@brydonthunder Ah that's true, but 15 pre mitigation is still quite a lot, especially early game

@cat-vv9xb

Жыл бұрын

​@@brydonthunder That's because Guardian's Horn mitigates all forms of damage, including spells, unlike Warden's Mail. You would be right if you are just talking about autos, but it's extremely good because of the universal damage reduction in addition to the large regen stat.

@pulsss

Жыл бұрын

in incredibly good item, almost always go it and have upwards of 6k damage blocked before i sell it. very good for a cheap starting item

Urgot then decided to builld a buffed to OP hell Black Cleaver to counter this, and went on to auto-win the game.

@mistywww3199

Жыл бұрын

Explain how BC is op? do you want bruisers to have no way to deal with a tank building cloth armour and insta winning the game.

@jaspervermeer659

Жыл бұрын

Truee

@jeromefeliciano4611

Жыл бұрын

Yeh 1k item vs 3.2k item HOLY OP MUST BUY AWLAYS BUY OP WOOHOO WOOPI

@opughdyang8264

Жыл бұрын

​@@mistywww3199 well that's a fair point, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that black cleaver simply is way to gold efficient, it gives alot of Hp, Ad and Haste whilst having a crazy passive, there is a reason many champions rush it first buy.

@zedus4042

Жыл бұрын

​@@opughdyang8264 insanely gold efficient, basically like most of ADC items.

Warden's mail + Ninja Tabi has been middle finger to everybody who uses autos as main source of damage (Sett, Riven, Urgot, Tryndamere and Ashe are probably biggest victims of that combo). I sometimes build it if I don't want to bother laning against certain champs.

@trwygon

Жыл бұрын

Cant tell if u are being serious or not, yeah nerf it! so then the tanks that btw are suppouse to tank get blown up in two bork autos xd. Sett literally unironically builds bork into full tank and not only tanks more than a tank but also oneshots anybody. Same with darius. But yeah tanks are the problem, for sure not bruisers!!

@sattes

Жыл бұрын

I used to rush it on on-hit adc's, quite good.

@niffin7983

Жыл бұрын

​@@trwygon making excuses for immortal tanks that make the game unfun for everyone else :P tank player found

@ryangoslingofficial25

Жыл бұрын

dude i once played zeri into garen top, he went wardens and after a couple of minutes of tanking my poke he had 1000 damage reduced, that item is not ok

@Isomeria450

Жыл бұрын

@@ryangoslingofficial25 *Picks ADC top* *Cries about item being good at what it's supposed to do* Yeah, you sure know how to troll, comrade.

i think that sion can currently build anything and still deal a huge amount of damage.

@luckasneo2089

Жыл бұрын

congratulations, you now know how tanks are supposed to work.

@boombabitch

Жыл бұрын

You mean my navorri blade zhonyas and crown rush will work??

@JanTft

Жыл бұрын

​@@boombabitch Yes, just make sure to build it when you play against me on my promo games, thanks😄

@pier1115

Жыл бұрын

@@luckasneo2089 tanks are supposed to tank, not deal damage, and if a sion full tank has the most damage its because the game is so unbalanced

@thepuffinlord

Жыл бұрын

@@pier1115 except he deals damage over time. An ADC autoing someone staying alive just as long as a tank will have hundreds of thousands of damage dealt at the end of a game

The item has been like this for 2 years and has been the main rush for bruisers/tank champions top in bad ad match ups This truly shows how slow the players of this community are at adapting and realizing what is good

Wardens has always been great early against Urgot and Ashe due to their abilities that give them a larger number of weaker auto attacks, exactly what Wardens is best at countering

@Juguitosdemora

Жыл бұрын

It works differently against ashe, ashes secondary bolts do not deal basic attack damage they deal proc damage after the first bolt so it doesn't get reduced as urgots does

@amethonys2798

Жыл бұрын

It's still a disgusting item against most top laners that deal damage with autos (Trynd/Riven/ranged tops/etc.) and will easily rack up 1k+ over the laning phase. I'm honestly surprised Riot even added the ability to see how much it blocks because we all know the reason they don't show Tabis is because it would expose how disgustingly broken that item is with SEVERAL thousand damage reduction a game.

@ozymandias8523

Жыл бұрын

The max damage cap should be lower like at max 20%

@enavoid

Жыл бұрын

@@Juguitosdemora I'm pretty sure Zeri's Q had to be reworked so that it works in the same way as ashe

@PaladineAvenger1

Жыл бұрын

@@amethonys2798 yet without that item you would suffer vs them.

There used to be a strategy in which you take amumu top with conqueror and you rush warden vs urgot, so that amumu's e reduce damage taken every auto and resets the cooldown of the spell+the damage reduction from the warden, and if you a bit ahead you ll notice that urgot deals litrrally 0 damage

The funny part is, ARAM has a 950g Warden's Mail starter item called "Guardian's Horn" that always blocks 15 dmg but also works on *Spells* and has no "max 40%" cap, so something like Zyra plants early game do like 3 damage.

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

i love that item lol

@SilencePandaa

Жыл бұрын

guardian items have always been somewhat "OP" its just that everyone overlooks them because they want to rush their mythics faster

@holacom363

Жыл бұрын

@@SilencePandaa the only ones that are worth buying are the AD item that gives AH (ADC item with lifesteal and hp is trash), and maybe the guardian's horn but its still debatable since tanks dont really need this extra survibability and can just rush tank items

@AgentYellowWang

Жыл бұрын

The funny thing that it also count as legendary item so anyone who think rush mythic better is basically don't know how to math.

@cat-vv9xb

Жыл бұрын

@@holacom363 The AD AH starter is terrible, even if you don't have a good mythic to abuse you should be rushing your core legendaries anyway. Especially if you don't want to build mythic because part of why the starter items exist is that they count as legendary items for the sake of mythic passive. I see people buy this on ad casters like Jayce and Varus and they have no damage even against squishies because they delay items like Muramana and Serylda's

I mean, the item works as intended. The "issue" is more that is hardcucks urgot and while it does hurt other autoattackers, its nowhere near as effective because urgots W makes his autos weaker and then additionally he attacks much more frequently than even something like sett, trundle or trynd, who all also suffer from wardens.

@blop-a-blop9419

Жыл бұрын

As many people have said this is a very particular interaction because of how Urgot works, (and Sion naturally having a huge HP pool), *BUT* that nonetheless questions the *relevancy of the "40%" cap.* Ninja tabis going from 10 to 12% auto atk dmg reduction was noticeable enough of an impact, now imagine if they went up to *40%!!!* ... see the problem ? It's not really a cap, when you really think about it... How is it even ok for a 1000 gold item to allow you to take 40% reduced damage ON TOP OF YOUR ARMOR?!?! And I say this as someone who's built the item, and thought the cap was ok, but now I definitely think it isn't. It should be like a 15 or 20% maximum, and maybe on Frozen Heart and Randuin's it should be 30%.

@titanofyoutube4834

Жыл бұрын

@@blop-a-blop9419 except that it would kill the item. It'd good, it doesn't completely invalidate non-urgot/ashe/zeri champs because those have unique functions on their attacks.

it's the duality of on hit effect that is so badly-coded, for example urgot gets 3.0 AS but deals 50% on hit damage which is fine, but if you are against a thornmail you should be taking 50% of the damage as well not the full value

The thing is wardens mail is not all that good in most matchups. It's great against urgot since his W is pure physical damage that sacrifices damage for attack speed meaning a ton of its damage is negated. But as urgot progresses in build/level, this item becomes less effective to the point where only champions that would already have a frozen heart or randuins lose out heavily. This is due to urgot building on-hit items like black cleaver and titanic hydra that increase the damage each hit is doing, while the damage reduction from warden's mail remains mostly static (only small increase per 1000 bonus hp). Since black cleaver shreds armor, building a pure armor item like frozen heart or a reduced armor low bonus hp tank item like randuins ends up costing you in the long run. It works great in the early to mid game for a few minutes, but the moment urgot gets tiamat he will be able to fight you. And once he finishes titanic hydra, he'll be stronger than you. Some champions can still make this work, like malphite, whos W passive negates the armor shred on black cleaver and gains bonus damage on his E which already possesses an AS slow, but this is not all that common. It just means urgot will have to play passively if not supported by his jungler, but the person he's facing will be at a disadvantage later on in the game. This is even more true if urgot's teammates are not countered by wardens mail legendaries.

Now imagine the same clip but with Urgot only having a caulfield and Sion only having wardens mail

To be fair Urgot is probably the champ that is most affected by this, since he does tons of hits with small amts of damage

@blop-a-blop9419

Жыл бұрын

As many people have said this is a very particular interaction because of how Urgot works, (and Sion naturally having a huge HP pool), *BUT* that nonetheless questions the *relevancy of the "40%" cap.* Ninja tabis going from 10 to 12% auto atk dmg reduction was noticeable enough of an impact, now imagine if they went up to *40%!!!* ... see the problem ? It's not really a cap, when you really think about it... How is it even ok for a 1000 gold item to allow you to take 40% reduced damage ON TOP OF YOUR ARMOR?!?! And I say this as someone who's built the item, and thought the cap was ok, but now I definitely think it isn't. It should be like a 15 or 20% maximum, and maybe on Frozen Heart and Randuin's it should be 30%.

dude im glad folks are catching on cause sometime i got these and tabis early instead of bramble if the other doesnt have healing

I like that "nice" , in the ending of the fight you clipped .

I love how tanks itemize completely differently by prioritizing component powerspikes first

@azarshadakumuktir4551

Жыл бұрын

It depends, having heartsteel whose components are not very valuable is still often better than rushing Bami for example. But true, some components like Bami, Warden, Tiamat or Bramble are a lot more important than for other champs and you can get those while not finishing the item.

Think rushing it against certain characters that have a lot on hit attacks most likely range is good other then that not sure mele characters

@uwuxd6239

Жыл бұрын

should be decnt against most top laners who are ad, still think thornmail would be better than this for the applied antiheal as most of the champs in toplane go some sort of healing be it conq or items so thorn is more worth overall, if you are playing a tank you could build stone into thornmail into a heavy ad team i guess (dont take my advice i'm literally iron 2)

this is why i respect the borcshffs he can play tank sion all the but he was not doing it he knows it's dirty

Black Clever is the most popular item on Urgot. Randuin is the 14th most popular item on Sion. Being taxed for 1000 gold means you're not going to be able to build your main Sion items. It's like backliners being taxed to buy Anti-Heal to counter healing champions. There's nothing extraordinary about it, but Anivia using Oblivion Orb against a heal champion does the same thing. It's a tax that has a huge effect, in the right circumstances.

he has 2 cloth + tabi + warden, urgot has one item that doesnt really count as dmg, 1100 for cd and little dmg. Considering runes etc, its fine. He does not have only warden

@ArcaneTricksterRS

Жыл бұрын

He is 4/0, Sion is 0/4, and Sion hard wins the trades. If you think that's fine, you have issues.

@PaladineAvenger1

Жыл бұрын

@@ArcaneTricksterRS score is nothing if you dont have lvl or item lead.

@ArcaneTricksterRS

Жыл бұрын

@@PaladineAvenger1 Being 4/0 and roughly equal cs means you are 1k gold ahead which is usually reflected on items. In this video, the value of the items in his inventory is roughly 3.5k, while Sion's is 2k, what are you talking about?

@PaladineAvenger1

Жыл бұрын

@@ArcaneTricksterRS i mean what i mean. Urgot lost a lot of waves due to jungle interference, so you cant just count the cs number since early minions giving you less exp than later ones. Second, the armor scales way worse than ad. Armor is op early for a reason, cause the later you get into the game, the worse it becomes, since everyone starts to stack penetration, which diminishes value of protection very hard. I dont see any wrong thing here. If Urgot wasnt so harassed by jungler, he would still won that duel easily

@infinitydesu

Жыл бұрын

​​@@ArcaneTricksterRS Sion spent all gold into pure armor, Urgot spent gold into AD, Haste, Health and boots, not pure AD. Tabis and Kindlegem are 1900 gold spent into tankiness, not damage.

Send this the drututt the man who “loves” this wholesome component item

@Rivalrvn

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha I have heard Drut complain about wardens a few times

@corniestpurse4045

Жыл бұрын

@@Rivalrvn he complains about everything

@Nosent426

Жыл бұрын

Drut ugliest eu top laner sounds like he eats mayo out of the jar

@warudobaby5625

Жыл бұрын

​@@corniestpurse4045 he don't complain about his overloaded wifus

@yeah-yeah2249

Жыл бұрын

@@warudobaby5625 is granny Camille considered a waifu?

It reduced damage twice, because Urgot's passive is labeled an auto attack (same with plated steelcaps). Urgot's passive is also labeled an on-hit effect, so it deal's 50% damage if dealt via his purge ability. So if Urgot's passive + w deal's 120 base damage ( common for early level), it's 120 * .45 (armor damage reduction w/ warden's and steel caps) * .88 - 24 (because warden's applies twice). That's 25 damage. No other attack based character is affected as much as Urgot by Warden's Mail, which is why he is typically around 45% win rate in high elo.

@EruCoolGuy

Жыл бұрын

Isn't the passive a spell-type ability triggered by on-hit ? Otherwise you would apply hydra whenever you'd hit several people with one shell.

@user-vy9mk7um1b

Жыл бұрын

Wait, passive is AUTOATTACK? How? Why it doesn't apply on-hit stuff? What the hell they are smoking there? Good thing I dropped this game.

@liberphilosophus7481

Жыл бұрын

@@EruCoolGuy It's labeled an auto attack/on-hit effect for Warden's mail/plated steel caps, but it does not apply on-hit effects. That was introduced with the plated steelcaps "bugfix" a few patches ago (before that patch, it was not an auto attack). It's a spell type ability that is also labeled as on-hit. As riot put it in the patch notes, "An auto's an auto, no matter the code". lol

ah new ornn tech, thank you mr.rival

to my knowledge this is no new tech, few years ago i had an irl friend who was master-grandmaster toplane riven otp and he talked about this to me once, it just might be new in this meta

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah Riven players often talk about how dumb that item is together with Ninja tabi.

You only really rush Warden’s Mail vs Urgot and Tryndamere, maybe Jax if they’re not going AP/Divine Sunderer where you want to rush Bramble Vest instead. It isn’t that oppressive since you delay your mythic/first completed item.

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

yeah exactly, league players are starting to discover counter-building in 2023

@aboldjourney

Жыл бұрын

Also in this clip Urgot took like a wave and a half of damage from minions too, Warden’s Mail was not the reason he almost died that trade but was a big factor.

@alaapanga3640

Жыл бұрын

finally someone who knows what building correctly is like

Riot: I’m gonna pretend I didn’t see that(Rival video)

Literally some top laners from last year's worlds were doing this, usually people get the thornmail part, but some were getting this item, I thought it was really interesting at the time and I absorbed it

@zachariz1490

Жыл бұрын

get both with a bami's and you can ascend to divinity

This is like showing a clip of someone QSS'ing a malz ult and then complaining its an op item

@denisgrigorov5927

Жыл бұрын

Excellent analogy

@trolltroll4557

Жыл бұрын

Nah, QSS doesn’t counter malz nearly as hard as wardens counters urgot lol - wardens is 25% cheaper - wardens is actually in the build path for items you would want to buy, as opposed to QSS which you either sit on or builds into shit items - QSS counters malz ult only, a 4/0 malz can still easily kill you with EWQ ignite. Wardens counters all urgots damage and makes it so even a fed urgot can’t damage you to the point where the sion just stands there full tanking urgots attacks and a minion wave while not taking any damage. Try that vs malz with QSS and see if it does the same, lol.

@niofree8303

Жыл бұрын

wardens provides far better stats is useful against way more champs and damages your build path for most Champs. Very flawed analogy especially considering that aside from the ult it does not do much

@DRDSkidroW

Жыл бұрын

​​@@niofree8303 better analogy? morde ult. also, as if I care about stats and 1.3k when I have some asshole malzahar stunlocking me with his ult and I'm a fed squishy carry. armor is a dog shit defensive item with how much pen+true damage there is in the game. let's nerf it even further while magic resist is giga broken

@celsonjunior9376

Жыл бұрын

@@trolltroll4557 wardens only good against full ad/basic attacks and the items it builds into arent that good, urgot main damage definitely doesnt come from his W (more like its the only dps option he has that doesnt need much to deal dmg) the damage comes from the passive that scales excessively good and yeah qss is bad if your champ isnt a assassin/adc, thats why the items that qss builds into are so trash

Warden's mail and frozen heart is just pure broken for centuries.. 30% attack speed reduction to infinity lol

@yeah-yeah2249

Жыл бұрын

20%*

@kecske-iq1yc

Жыл бұрын

frozen heart bad 90% of the times tho

@tealover7058

Жыл бұрын

@@kecske-iq1yc not really theres almost always an adc in every game if not multiple and then all the other auto attack based champs so its basically always getting value

@adamnagel7436

Жыл бұрын

​@@tealover7058 yeah but by the time you buy it their items pretty much negate it. ADCs are not weak right now...at all.

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

frozen heart op it gives the least amount of effective HP of any tank item and reduces a whopping 20% attack speed wow meanwhile attackspeed boots + lethal tempo gives 100% attackspeed out of the box

Sion Towerdiving and literally standing there AFK farming while getting his health down to half. Rival "Riot, this item is a problem."

@zachariz1490

Жыл бұрын

i don't see how sion is the problem in this clip. Any champion with tabi and warden could do this against an urgot.

This is intended, its because urgots gatling attacks often but with low amounts of dmg, and thats why wardens blocks so much.

CAN U IMAGINE SION DIDNT HAVE TABIS (yes plated steelcaps watever) WTH

@Ombrenoirs

Жыл бұрын

Always tabis, never steelcaps

@alyssarichardson2544

Жыл бұрын

@@Ombrenoirs with 12% dodge chance

This isn't problematic at all, it's good against like a few champions that hit many times and do little damage (Urgot, Zeri) and even then it only helps them out of laning phase so they can enjoy the first 14 minutes of the game without it being a nightmare. The moment anyone on the enemy team builds armour pen, or shreds armour any tank goes back to just melting in 3 seconds from full HP. Also Urgot just isn't in a good state right now either, a few buffs would help him out.

@Don-mp6tv

Жыл бұрын

Urgot needs a good Mythic to be honest. A mythic that converts hp into ad would be good for him and Aatrox tbh. Maybe reworking Titanic Hydra to work on attacks and skills and also give a tiny bit of CDR would be good. Right now the only viable way is to go for Titanic into BC and then just buy a useless Mythic because the stats are too broken to miss.

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

@@Don-mp6tv Just make Urgot into ''melee'' champ (like they did with Rakan) and give him +10ms, so he can actually use items and be useful.

@a.arrondel6379

Жыл бұрын

​@@walkelftexasranger hell no, his entire kit is balanced around being ranged, he'd be batshit broken

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

yeah and also an urgot being bad problem

@PandaLord13

Жыл бұрын

@Don That's a good suggestion honestly! They could add a bit more power into titanic hydra passive and turn it into a mythic, I think that's a solid move.

This been a thing for ages lol but ty for spreading the tech

It's each instance of damage. Urgots damage is in lots of small instances. So it's really good vs that

The sion was up in cs and had equal items in gold. Not like he was really behind

@Rivalrvn

Жыл бұрын

Sion passive is cool YEP

@Hyebri

Жыл бұрын

Urgot also finished boots before item when ahead, throwing his lead.

This also means that sion can't kill you and you are free to farm up for BORk+Black clever which are super op

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Sion can definitely kill you, his base damage is still pretty high for a Tank.

@FenrirAlter

Жыл бұрын

where tf are u getting this one. its like investing into ninja tabis. He can still kill u that early with base damage alone and for a tank thats not a huge investment

@mukplayz7413

Жыл бұрын

even without a single damage item, sion can kill you with just a punch and grasp of undying, more over he can build thornmail and counter urgot more

@niofree8303

Жыл бұрын

sion just outtraded urgot while retreating

Urgot main : YOU JUST DISCOVERED THIS NOW ???

This makes sense since: Tabi boots reducing auto attacks dmg A lot of armor reducing auto attacks dmg Urgot W reducing auto attacks dmg ìn exchange to fire faster (wich make the on-hit effect of Warden x3 stronger) Urgot having not much AD bought Also Sion HP stacking passive giving more strength to Warden passive And finally the Warden pasive flat dmg reduction. That, as its obvious, will be strong in this specific situation.

I am personally suprised players only now start to realize how brkoen is warden's mail. The only time i play tank any tank top is when we are playing as a 5 premade and having fun, but i start with warden's mail every time since the item rework.

@reddragon6274

Жыл бұрын

Now tell me why the msot used toplainers and the ones with higest winrate are Bruisers, AA champions and Mages? Tanks are barely played and on top of that is difficult to carry with them. A good tank player should be twice as good to understand how the game works and progresses.

@R3alSt3al

Жыл бұрын

@@reddragon6274like i written i barely play top and only play it for fun. Even whn i play it I mostly play Ornn, Nasus, and Sion Malphite and basically to troll with the with friends. But I don't know how much you play but since top lane is full of ad buisers if you roll back ptch notes, there is always 1 tank in tier 1 who is strong amd don't even talk about the fact that Malphite is in op tier for at least in the pst 3 patches. The fact that pro players don't abuse it doesn't men it is no op againts certain type of champs, and pro players and adaptaion is horrible. And yeah I agree carrying with tanks is imposible. Thats why i never play top only in draft with friends to have fun like I said, and yeahit can look more op there as less people tryhard there but that doen't mean I cn't read and buy an item which from suffering turns your lane into easy to survive. It is the same as the new Navori when it came out i instantly strted to abues it on Xayah. And look at pro play they needed at least a mounth and some other adc nerfs to abuse it. When it was broken since the ite, change.

as long as divine bork and cleaver and a million other tank disabling items are in the game this is more than fair

@niofree8303

Жыл бұрын

all of those come at a cost of around 3000 and wont make a 0/5 laner outclass u at min 10 unless he hits a spike there. Well bork is certainly broken asf but this interaction is not fair either

That was a sweet quadra

Bork: Ight, now I win.

Yeah, going against Tabis + warden's as an AD dealer in top is straight up your enemy laner kindly asking you to focus on csing

That looks balanced

@zedus4042

Жыл бұрын

Yea I think that it's too balanced, Sion should be able to at least oneshot him with that item.

would you ever consider making a secondary youtube channel from gameplay taken from your twitch like other streamers?

Whenever I see clips like this the only words that run through my head are "Perfectly Balanced".

And Sion dealing 0 damage to him as well Sion literally has this item that makes him a tank

@walkelftexasranger

Жыл бұрын

Wow no way champion that doesn't build damage doesn't deal a lot of damage? That's insane!

@bliss4541

Жыл бұрын

cuz he only autoed him 5 times, used 1 e, w and q? ;D also idk how you can advocate for a champ thats legit untouchable if you dont have hp% dmg in ur kit or building tank shred, and able to take 10 towers on side.

I'm onboard them being tanky as long as they DON'T. DO. DAMAGE. Becoming tanky should come the consequence of heavily loosing on damage, instead we see the tank rushing Sion almost killing a 4-0 Urgot...

@opughdyang8264

Жыл бұрын

Problem is how would you make it so they do less? Are you just gonna completely gut their damage? Or are you suggesting lowering base damage and increasing the % scailing, at which point building full damage may be a bit broken.

@ch1dd

Жыл бұрын

They're not dealing damage, people are just taking unmitigated damage. That's the whole point of the balance, otherwise tanks would just be entirely ignored.

@mubumubu5975

Жыл бұрын

In an extended fight conquerer > grasp >fleet wins. If you have damage but no sustain like urgot, any damage by a tank will whittle you down especially since Ou have no résistances. Plus sion keeps sustaining with grasp procs, making it a new stage of the boss fight for urgot who runs out of resources (health mana abilities) as well.

@zedus4042

Жыл бұрын

​@@opughdyang8264 just give them balanced base and scaling damage to a point where it's not too much for a tank but not zero, and make them focus on tanking damage, engaging fights and providing cc like tanks are in any game instead of being able to deal 1k damage with single basic attack with Heartsteel, item which also gives 1.5k health in 30 min game...

@adamnagel7436

Жыл бұрын

He was fighting him while tanking a wave of Sions minions. Sion wasnt even doing much of the damage. He was running for his life the entire time lol.

Minions Auto attack also is being mitigated and is added into the total mitigation damage

Riot you need to see these mags

Thank you for revealing counterplay to that menace so called Urgot

Let's go Urpog!!

Does Ashe Q dmg get reduced for Warden passive x5 since she make her attacks splited?

working as intended.

Nice indeed

I fought against an Urgot as Ornn yesterday and I thought about rushing Warden's Mail. Didn't expect a video about this just a day after lol.

Working as intended, love wardens mail

This is a very unique hard counter for one or two champs, the other I can think of being corki, you picked the worst case scenario, and it won't make sense for every top laner to go this item, at most it will give them the ability to regain farm, but they'll lose it if it doesn't benefit them.

@zachariz1490

Жыл бұрын

corki? you mean the ap suicide bomber terrorist

I legit thought you were memeing on tyler1 being urpog

I mained Urgot too. With Urgot, more than other champions, there is a sweet balance between building damage and resistances against the enemy comp. Reason being that I went PTA, focusing on being able to DPS down an enemy and ult them without dying before getting the ult off, needing the damage to kill the enemy and the survivability to reel in the ult and for the Triumph proc etc. Especially into an enemy rushing Warden’s, going Serrated Dirk into Black cleaver is nice, but it leaves you very squishy. This makes you pretty much incapable of splitpushing as you’re too squishy to survive 1v2’s most of the time, even with flash (and ignite) up. The enemy rushing Warden’s genuinely has felt out-of proportion uncounterable and unbalanced as it leaves you with no choice other than either dealing 0 damage, or being too squishy to be relevant in splitpushing/teamfighting, especially in higher elo. Considering Urgot is in an disadvantage with him being ranged and thus some items being automatically inferior on him (also somewhat disproportionally as Urgot is still designed to get on top of enemies as if he was melee), while also receiving indirect nerfs like the Death’s dance nerf (because Hecarim was dominating), I quit League for now. Having to run Approach Velocity because the (ranged) enemy rushes boots (unable to land Urgot’s most important ability; his E) into them getting a Warden’s is completely unplayable, and makes even his “okay” matchups become completely demotivating. Same reason why I even see Vayne players go boots into Warden’s to counterpick Urgot on the toplane. Honestly disgusting.

Rushing warden's mail against ad champs that rely on autos is anything but new tech.

ive seen it a lot, but as a replacement for the bramble vest rush back before it got nerfed in i think it was early s12

Riot has to watch A LOT of clips

It's even worse if its Malphite @Rival . The Percentage Armor gain from the buff to Malphite W puts him at 210 armor, when active. Add on *Plated Steelcaps* and nothing kills the guy with physical damage.

I didnt realize this was such a strong item, think itd be worth rushing at as tank support?

Standing here, I realize..!

that's pretty much an urgot counter thing and its completely fine

not to deny the potential of wardens, but i feel like this is also an instense of urgot being a not so great champ rn against someone who not only countered his champ with an item, but is also able to not feel as punishable for building a strictly armor item because of his free hp on sions w passive. I dont think this is a GREAT example of how basic matchups where youd find this item better to build than anything else because this is literally just THE item to build for sion in this matchup.

Small instances of multiple hits are the only time this component looks broken. For obvious reasons.

Warden Mail has been like this for patches and patches and that's why I love rushing Frozen Heart + Tabis when against something like a Yasuo, Yone, or every on hit champion. I have been abusing this tech with Nasus and Malphite particularly since they reduce attack speed.

honestly from my time playing urgot (which is a lot but i dont main him) i can tell you this is more of an urgot problem as he is useless till reaching level 11 even when fed hes just that kind of champion that really needs to reach that power spike. so i dont really think this is specifically a warden problem im sure the item is insanely gold efficient im just saying this looks worse than it actually is. maybe instead of nerfing wardens they make an component item (aka epic i think) that gives like 8-12% pen and it build into black cleaver and syrilda's (idk how to spell the other ad pen item that slows).

That's like say "uhhh Rammus is broken" and then proceed to show a clip of a rammus maxing W with thornmail oneshoting the Urgot that made the mistake of using his W.

@niofree8303

Жыл бұрын

Yeah because that is broken too. Rammus dealing 20k damage with thornmail everytime is fundementally broken. What are u even saying right now? its right that anti tank champs lose because they attack a tank? What are people supposed to do? Just watch rammus and lose?

that 26min full build riven team fight really got me interested

yeah building for laning phase must be so good :D

I'm okay with this, I firmly believe counterplay itemization is necessary, that's why the QSS Tax exists, and why healing comps need to be countered by Grievous Wounds

@Tiagocf2

Жыл бұрын

Yess, ranting about this or claiming that's op is the same as saying that anti-heal is broken because it counters healing

im not entirely sure ,but since amumu E is so good vs zeri, i think wardens has to be somehow effective o nher same as urgot right? since zeri throws 7 bullets per Q, per contrary, zeri stacks the 6 black cleaver stacks with just 1 Q aswell, as long as she hits 6out of the 7 pellets from it (same as graves can stack 4 with one auto if he hits all the pellets).

This is why they reworked how Amumu E worked, because his E passive is basically a free wardens. This happened with zeri release since she pretty much did 0 damage to him in early game. Because of how her Q worked

Not really surprised, I mean the item designed to block aa damage is blocking aa damage? And is blocking a lot of damage from Urgot’s W specially weak aa’s? Damn that must’ve been shocking

I thought that was T1 in the dark 💀

nice

Now this is how old tank matchups used to go.

In the late game wardens and tabis barely do something against full build adcs...

I would also say it based on champion as I’ve played nasus with warden mail and he still hurts like a truck while sion just has a lot of health

i play urgot a lot, yes, this item basically nullifies urgot, the problem isn't the item, it's Urgot W

@niofree8303

Жыл бұрын

meh I play darius and sett and even on them it hurts. Its stats alone are very efficient

He was tanking that shit like he had 600 armor not +40💀💀💀💀

What's new here? It has literally written in its description if people could read and understand it, I have been buying WM early since S10. Now that have you have made a video, I can see nerfs coming. Thanks btw, more power to ADCs.

ignoring the fact wardens is a complete counter to urgot w, he was still winning while he was not fighting in a giant enemy minion wave. so i dont see the problem

Hasn't Wardens Mail been a top tier item to build into early for a few seasons now? I usually build it rather than Tabi's because its just better.

I've been doing this for over a year. Either that or tabis rush. Works every time

sion has 147 armour in that clip, plus the steelcaps 12% reduction... which is 72% reduction, 74% with conditioning... I sure hope he has high resistance

Rushing wardens has been a thing for a while honestly. I started doing a build with fleet footwork nasus where I max E first and rush frozen heart so I can safe farm against tough match ups

It's what Urgot deserves to be honest. That aggro crab.

Didn’t they change zeri q so her auto attacks wouldn’t be affected like this?

This is why it’s so op to do build a bear ornn where you can build so much armor and be unkillsble without backing