My uncle is named Jean and is very egocentric; so I guess this makes him a Selfish Jean!

@catkeys6911

6 жыл бұрын

And if he eats a lot of shrimp, you could also call him Shellfish Jean.

@xZzirrSicK

6 жыл бұрын

Get out! XD

@tigerstyle4505

4 жыл бұрын

I actually hot a great-uncle Gene and he's one of the kindest, most generous mfs I've ever known. He unironically is an Altruistic cat named Gene.

@PossumMedic

3 жыл бұрын

@@tigerstyle4505 The counter part! The selfless Gene!

@dallisuresh8044

Жыл бұрын

It's not jean!😂

I'm learning English, the excellent pronunciation of Professor Dawkins makes him really easy to understand. Very helpful.

@gistfilm

Жыл бұрын

How does this sound now, after 9 years?

Professor Dawkins seems like such a nice guy. It would be cool to hang out with him and absorb some of his knowledge.

@thENDweDIE

3 жыл бұрын

...over a pint...HaHa

@thENDweDIE

3 жыл бұрын

...over a pint...HaHa

@BallyBoy95

Ай бұрын

Smart, yes. Cool? Not so sure. How can anyone be friends with a guy like this? Follow his socials.

selfishness gave birth to altruism irony

Dawkins himself admitted that the title of his book "The Selfish Gene" may have been less misleading if it had been named "The Immortal Gene", but I bet that would have caused a few other confusions

Isn't it screwed up how christian conservatives give him crap for writing a book called "The Selfish Gene" and decry it for advocating selfishness (even though it doesn't), yet they admire people like Ayn Rand who wrote a book called "The Virtue of Selfishness" which DOES advocate selfishness?

@JamesTindaleArt

8 жыл бұрын

+AgeOfSuperboredom Christian Conservatives who claim to be objectivists are kidding themselves. Their faith is based on altruism, Ayn Rands philosophy of objectivism rejects all forms of altruism as evil. It's one or the other guys :)

@AgeOfSuperboredom

8 жыл бұрын

James Tindale They're borderline retarded, so what should we expect?

@JamesTindaleArt

8 жыл бұрын

AgeOfSuperboredom Thankfully as an aspiring objectivist, I am learning not to expect anything from others :)

@jimzheng4912

8 жыл бұрын

+James Tindale How can anything be objective if everything that is to be considered needs an information processor-in this case, our brains-to be perceived? I'm no subjective extremist, but I'm certainly not an objectivist. I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, more skewed towards subjectivism, since we're all living in our heads.

@JamesTindaleArt

8 жыл бұрын

Jim Zheng I agree that to be 'objective' is a fallacy. No matter how 'objective' we try to be we cannot escape the subjective nature of our characters. However, with this analogy we are referring to the dictionary terms of objective/subjective. 'Objectivism' is not merely applying these definitions to life. Objectivisms base theory is "That things really do exist (existence), and our ability to recognise them as 'things' is real (consciousness). So the two axioms we cannot escape are Existence and Consciousness (that it exists and we know it). so the rule of all knowledge is that A is A. When ever a situation comes up where A is somehow not A, we are dealing with a fallacy. Last point is whose reason. It is your reason that counts.

One of my favorite scientists. Dawkins is a force to be reckoned with.

Wonderfully put! Be nice everyone!x

Thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your wisdom with us!

Everybody is related hence help strangers

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

no!

@mizkid1762

Ай бұрын

Everybody used to be related, so they must be related now(oops they are not), so help strangers

"genes are immortal" Asteroid twice the size of planet Earth: ohh yeah, hold my beer.

@pallaciccione7885

3 жыл бұрын

Trust me, life would survive until ice in form of meteorites get somewhere

@OMAR-vq3yb

2 жыл бұрын

What type of beer do asteroids drink?

@pullingthestrings5233

2 жыл бұрын

@@OMAR-vq3yb blue moon

For me this is by far one of the most encouraging and heartening perspectives on our shared humanity to date. I have to humbly admit I may even have started shifting from being a cynical old bastard to an immature infant of hope.

@yp77738yp77739

Жыл бұрын

I don’t wish to re-ignite your cynicism, but softly suggest you may not fully comprehend Dawkins proposition. He is suggesting that non kin altruism is simply a state of error, the output is the same hormonal driven kin altruism but because of our new social environment it just so happens to be applied to non kin. This is technically contrary to the efficiency of propagation of one’s own genetic code, therefore if one assumes Darwin correct, we would expect this error to be corrected for by a decrease in altruistic behaviour over the next millennia. I’m not his biggest fan but there is a logic and clarity to his observations. It’s brutal in its outlook but all data and observations tally, so it’s the closet answer we have so far to explain our place in the universe, our essence is of being gene replicating machines. I’m sure that Darwin will be further refined in time, for example there are some mathematical challenges in relation to formation of new species, and first life is still not water-tight, but it’s what we know is correct so far.

Altruism is the willingness to share your positive energy with another organism

The selfish gene I understand. (I would still need to read the book for full context, but I understand what he is saying here) Kin altruism and reciprocal altruism doesn't really escape survival instinct and therefore isn't above survival instinct and therefore isn't the highest and most efficient implementation of altruism. True altruism, which is value driven rather than survival, is without the selfish gene (to survive) completely. However, true altruism cannot be inherent and cannot be optimized before self actualization (which requires selfishness at first). This slightly paradoxical road to altruism only seems so at surface level, but is not. Once self actualization is achieved, selfishness should not to motivate altruism. Lastly, I love this quote: "The joy of being conscious human beings is that we rise above our origins our misfiring selfish genes mean we don't ape the nastiness of nature, but extract ourselves from it and live by our values" I agree with Dawkins here, now, we have to decide what values are we going to live by?

Seriously I cried watching ghis video,,,well put my favourite book ever

I am very moved by this encounter of two great scientists -- Frans de Waal and Richard Dawkins. I don't think it has been resolved entirely, but still...

One of Dawkins' best videos probably .

When I saw the beaver calling, all I could hear was, “ALLEN! ALLEN! ALLEN! ALLEN!” 😂

the selfish gene concept is about explaining altruism, and Dawkins explains it well by explaining that there really is no altruism, because behind it is a self serving agenda, whether you are talking about gene survival, or just human acts of altruism that make humans feel good

@Boris99999

4 жыл бұрын

Keylanos Lokj And the reason why they are unselfish even if only partly is that their genes make their brain produce endorphins and dopamine every time they help someone!)

@Sharetheroad3333

4 жыл бұрын

We aren’t unselfish. There is always a motive or a chemical going off in our brain. We are not inherently good. Which is fairly obvious when observing the world.

@This_tub

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sharetheroad3333 selfish is neither good or bad, it is what it is. It is the law of the universe. Selfish is like the universal force of gravity, larger celestial bodies sucking smaller bodies indiscriminately and unconsciously

@Sharetheroad3333

3 жыл бұрын

Trump supporter the selfish gene is not about “morals.” We are more than what you described nonetheless. As well some of us can over ride primitive wiring when it’s not useful for the greater good. We are social animals with empathy and cooperation. It’s highly improbable you have many of those qualities if you’re a trump supporter, and/or can comprehend any of what I just wrote.

@Sharetheroad3333

3 жыл бұрын

Trump supporter haha. Thanks for proving my point. That was easy.

Dawkins is absolutely brilliant..

I like thinking about how I'm just a mec suite for my genes! xD It's nice to see them debating and not just arguing and denying the others perspective.

Just Love Richard Dawkins..Man of knowledge and wisdom ❤

last paragraph he says: shortest and most important.

what is the name of the music in the background that starts in the beginning?

This message is the direct anti-thesis to Jordan Peterson's philosophy about dominant hierarchies. It's deeply confounding to me how Dawkins' message [about the altruism of the selfish gene] just passed by all the modern Social-Darwinist in our modern debate.

There are synergistic benefits from cooperation, even with non-relatives, due to the division of labor (Adam Smith's pin factory), particularly when tasks are arranged (assembly line) to minimize the possibility of shirking. Perhaps it's not misfiring, but just enlightened self-interest that gives cooperators an edge over non-cooperators.

Perhaps altruism is part of the extended phenotype and sometime has positive effects toward others even if they are much less likely to reciprocate than is warranted by the expense ? I mean, our intellect can see past the goals of genes and into realistic goals for either the species or at least your own culture or nation (if not religion).

The seeming altruism has its deep scientific root, manifested mainly through kin selection and reciprocal altruism. A so-called "pure" altruism is detrimental to the genes, therefore it won't last in the process of natural selection. As an example for reciprocal altruism, we know that a friend who doesn't return favors will be ostracized slowly but surely.

@PATAMA12345

5 жыл бұрын

friend is user..better help poor homeless and give food..

Dawkins mentioned that our niceness to complete strangers without any favour in return, is the result of our misfiring selfish genes. Well instead, could helping strangers be something instrumental for our survival, because it simply makes us happy and contributes to our well-being(part of fitness in the Darwinian world)? What do you guys think of this? Thanks! :)

@Zach-ud4mq

9 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! No worries. I love quality, long replies. Really appreciate it!

It is time Richard writes 'The Altruistic Gene' as a follow up to 'The Selfish Gene'.

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

A comment that exposes your ignorance; they're synonyms.

Species in which individuals actually care about everyone, not just kin, may have an advantage over more selfish species. When there exists a proclivity to help others (which is reciprocated perhaps not by the specific individual helped, but by other members of your species when you need help), it creates a safety net for all and lays the groundwork for a society in which the advantage conferred by an increased security of social cohesion may benefit all members via increased productivity, stability, cooperation, etc. It may not be, as Dawkins states, a misfiring for us to feel empathy towards those that are not kin, but may instead be what has propelled us to the top of the hierarchy when competing with other species, and has also helped when confusing with other population groups (ie other countries).

@davesmith3289

3 жыл бұрын

The emergence of altruism can definitely be explained, it just just be explained by dawkins selfish gene hypothesis, he just refuses to admit this.

I'm confused how Richard didn't conclude this. This altruistic behavior among people is the same selfish gene in the first place. Living in groups adds factor of unknown. If you let a kid slice a cake knowing which piece goes where, he will take the biggest slice and other slices will differ in sizes by how good friendship he has with each individual friend. If you change the situation and give cakes randomly, he will make all the slices the same. We help one another for a very good reason. It's because you never know who is going to pay you back. It is the same selfish gene as before.

@iNinjaWalker

7 жыл бұрын

Helping others with the prospect of reciprocity is not altruism.

@croatiansciencestudio7373

7 жыл бұрын

True.

@therawal

7 жыл бұрын

Croatian Science Studio I think the word "selfish" is a misnomer when considering the context of the phrase "selfish genes". The other scientist alluded to this. Genes have no motivation other than survival. There is no intent there. A gene is neither selfish nor selfless. It just seeks to propagate. The phrase survival of the "fittest" can also be misleading. Survival can so often be based on chance. I happened to be born in an area well above sea level and therefore I am less susceptible to flooding. Another person may be born next to the ocean and be susceptible to flooding and have a higher chance of mortality. I may not be as physically fit as the individual closer to sea level but there may be a greater probability of my survival than the survival of my beach bum counterpart. My genes have a higher chance of surviving and propagating. My point is that survival is based more on chance, accumulated experience and environment. It is not always based on any individual motivation or the motivations of the components (genes) of individuals.

We should not think that "genetic relation" is so limited. Humans are intelligent enough to understand that we are all genetic relation to to a high degree. Even large superficial differences, for instance skin color and eye shape, are minuscule genetic variations.

I agree that he might’ve named it something else...like The Immortal Gene...because of the amount of misrepresentation out there about the book BASED SOLEY on either misunderstanding the title or misunderstanding the science of the book. Dawkins makes it clear in the opening chapter what he means by the “selfish gene”...yet a basic misunderstanding of the entire book persists amongst fools who don’t understand it, but insist on behaving as if they do. Astounding.

Mind-blown.

But selfishness is sometimes needed before altruism, like how can you give someone something until you get it first yourself (by being selfish)?

@ec100

6 жыл бұрын

Dawkins also has the talk on Game Theory. Capitalism is like the person who always competes. Socialism is like the person who always tries to cooperate. Since in game theory the person who tries to compete (or defect) sometimes does better, it sometimes requires the other to compete also. This might be perhaps the reason why Capitalism tends to win over Socialism , perhaps economically?

The word "selfish" in the title is very misleading indeed because there is no such thing as a "selfish gene" , the word selfish is used as a descriptive term to the outcome of the process of natural selection/sexual selection.It has more of a poetic meaning than a scientific one , it's just playing with words.

(EDIT: After having watched the entire video...I see now that he explains what I said far better than I could or did) I believe the altruistic part that he further explores is just a by-product of the survival of the selfish gene that so many animals share...it’s not a primary, but a secondary effect. Sort of like why people who cannot (or do not want to) reproduce still have the desire to copulate. There is no benefit for it, aside from the enjoyment. That’s a by-product of the primary “goal” of the survival of the gene. And evolution is still in the process of perfecting the mechanism.

@davesmith3289

3 жыл бұрын

but if dawkins selfish gene theory was correct, then a gene for altruism could never become ubiquitous in a population because it advantageous to an individuals competition, not the individual in whom the gene first appeared. Being generous to strangers in a population full of selfish individuals does not provide you with a survival advantage.

He is completely taking credit for all of George Price's work.

2:16 Damn! that guy is HUGE XD

Before the "Selfish Gene" you would look at a fly and see a single organism trying to survive and reproduce as described in "The Origin Of Species" but Dawkins goes further and describes it in more detail and in effect, puts the organism in a new perspective.The fly is not just a single organism it is a package of parts( wings, legs, eyes) each with its instructions and properties, simply put each part with its specific set of genes, genes that try to work their way in the next generation.

- نجاة الجين (هو الهدف من الغيرية في نفس الفصيلة) زي إنقاذ الأم لابنها - الهدف الآخر هو توقع تبادل المنافع (نجاة الجينات المسئولة عن تبادل المنافع) بين الفصايل المختلفة ولكن هل هذا كافي لتبرير التعاطف والحنان بين أبناء الجنس الواحد؟ ألا يحدث أحيانا دون انتظار أي منفعة؟ ولا حتى توارث الجين؟ ويحدث بين البشر خصوصا ناحية أشخاص بعيدين تماماً عن الفرد (ليسوا أبناءه ولا ينتظر منهم أدنى منفعة ؟ الحل من وجهة نظره أنه جينات موروثة لفترة أما كانت مجموعات البشر صغيرة وتبادل المنافع وتوراث الجينات متوقع !

Thanks

It was Rosalind Franklin who discovered the DNA structure, those thiefs don't deserve credit.

i think that better understand this video we should not label selfish as bad and selfless as good. they are what they are

There's a difference between sincere altruism and fake altruism like someone doing good things in vain. Fake altruism wouldn't have the same outcomes as sincere altruism regarding immortality. I don't think the origins came from selfishness which works in the short term and has negative consequences. The quality of sincerity is important along with other valuable traits that led to human survival and domination.

interesting video

in general, the evolutionary mechanics that motivates us to do evolutionary functions may not be related to them. ex. -we perform selfless tasks and think that they are selfless, but it is more an unrealized benefit of others eventually helping us. -sex is evolved to be far more pleasurable than food and sleep and we would choose it over the latter two even if it is not essential for the individual's survival. The intense pleasure of sex is not realized by animals and before humans to be a motivating mechanism for the sperm to fertilize the egg

The act which seems altruistic actually stems from selfishness.Actually the organism by helping his close relatives to survive is not helping them actually but organism is helping his own genes to perpetuate because a portion of his genes are contained within his close relative.

@davesmith3289

3 жыл бұрын

Altruism involves helping individuals who are not your close relatives.

@dreameducation586

3 жыл бұрын

@@davesmith3289 That's only visible in case of reciprocal altuism in case of bats , usually organisms that are altruistic are relatives.

Could wars fought between groups of humans be the explanation for the love for other groups of strange humans? That there is a part is us thinking it is better for our survival to not be at war at all (losses), whereas another part believes we should only care for our own group, or the group members who look most like ourselves (this would explain racism). What do you think?

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

Read The Selfish Gene to comprehend how muddled you are.

Selfish gene what happens to those people who aren't selfish and don't have self interest? What if you have social anxiety and don't know how to be in crowds of people

@Lolzrsable

7 жыл бұрын

You're talking about the implications of our developed brain, and not necessarily genetic programming.

Is it an ESS?

@FranFerioli

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is explained in the book.

I think compassion is part of our survival genetic structure. Think about love. Altruism is self-destructive.

OR, perhaps altruism is evolved to bridge the gap between vastly differing genes. A well functioning group and intimate interpersonal relationships being the ultimate survival mechanism, and one we can't live without. Genes that control the organism for their own benefit and propagation, are either evolving a creature that can make it's own decisions on how best to survive, or they are not. In the former the phenotype is not a passive carrier of genes.

It already explains it. Malfunction/damage in certain brain areas can give rise to extreme apathy.

What I mean to say is an altruism that surpasses kin selection and direct reciprocity. All animals can and do display altruism. Apparently, it appears that many animals, even rodents, also have a sense of empathy. However, for many animals, this altruistic behavior stops at kin and reciprocal partners (this is debatable for primates however). I would say altruism has to be seen on a continuum. So while all animals are altruistic, I would say humans are superior in terms of degrees.

bravo

Altruism: You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

I don't want to belittle the role that genes play in altruism but I can't help but wonder if our intelligence doesn't also have something to do with it. We, as thinking agents, can perceive that if everyone were altruistic, it benefits us. We alone among the animal kingdom have the ability to overcome our programed behaviour, at least on some level.

Forget about the destructive Shepard books from the Middle East Goodness exists in nature 👍

What about people and pets? KZread has endless examples of people devoting inordinate amounts of money, time, and energy to taking care of all sorts of animals.

I am a believer Muslim and trying to understand this theory I find that selfishness according to my belief does not mean the Self e.g. the 80 Kilo entity. According to Toheed Theory everything immerged in Toheed and when I help any person without any hope of benefit and I even do it for my own benefit but it may be for my extended SELF i.e. "the creation or creator". As a Muslim I find no contradiction in the Saying of Dawkins, but only the understanding of the meaning of Selfishness. Physical law action and reaction are equal guide us also to act sympathetically without any hope of benefit at the same time but with the possibility in future. Selfish Gene or promoting Gene may be an actor out of “MY body” and in the body of my love ones. If we consider this theory from other angels it is very much awakening and able to be interpreted according to the teachings of Islam and to real Christianity. Who is aware of his SELF is aware of GOD was said before 1400 years is proved to be true. Chaudhry Columbus Khan Adv.

What does he mean by misfiring I wonder

All of this business is a million times more fascinating to me than the religious critic Dawkins is far too often exclusively presented as.

yes that was what i meant as well.

I believe our morality stems from and need for Universally Preferable Behavior. Because we live in communities and groups, it is understandable why species that treat other in such a way that they help each other because it is preferable and would hope for the same treatment would have an evolutionary advantage compared to species that cannot show empathy to others

I love science

Also the mother who goes into the burning building to save her child, she is still selfish. She only went to avoid living with the pain of guilt caused by her lack of initiative as the most probable reason.I don't think selfishness exists anyway, survival genes is the only thing that can't be denied like this , i mean in report to what point of reference could you name something as "selfish" ? You could say that the universe is a dark place OR that the Earth is just lit up :), kinda relative ...

Interesting video. Human altruistic behavior goes beyond just helping complete strangers though. How often do you see humans nurture and care for other species of plants and animals in need. The rose does nothing for the human, not does the kitten that shows up on your door that has been abandoned. However, it is not unusual for a human to care for the abandoned kitten.

@thoserusskies115

8 жыл бұрын

+Chad nonyat yeah... I once found three abandoned kittens, took them home and what followed next was 2 months of semi sleepless nights because they had to be fed, regular visits to the vet since one of them turned out to have a serious infection, quite a bit of expenses - artificial formula, medicine, etc - but most of all worrying and panicking and being afraid they won't make it without their mother. they made it, I gave them all away to good homes. it didn't benefit me, the wooden floor in my room now has a noticable protrusion because that's where the kittens liked to urinate lol. I think humans are much more complex than Prof. Dawkins chooses to believe. it's not just saving kittens or looking after a plant, is it? sometimes it's covering the embrasure of a machine gun pillbox with your body, etc

Leadership

Couldn't our advanced empathy and morality be caused by our conscious brain function? In this way it is empathy through similarity. When we see a being who we feel, through our brain function, to be similar to us, we help them because it is like helping ourselves. Not in a reciprocal way, but because we connect with them in a way that their pain is our pain. This empathy is developed from early childhood, explaining why infants can be so "evil," and continues to develop throughout our lives.

I only found out about this and have to read the book. Not sure if mentioned but because we are of the same species would that not affect altruistic behaviour? Regardless of being direct descendant or directly related. The genes goal overall is to make our species survive? Selfish may come first, but in scenarios the gene can sacrifice said vessel to preserve the "work" that was done.

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

"The genes goal overall is to make our species survive?" - No, survival of the individual's genes and/or close kin, not the species, which is group selection. GS is an outdated model

Self-promoting genes v selfish genes! I don't see much difference.

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

Where do you suppose this summation shows your level of understanding?

we (humans) do anything that doesn't affect our gene survival like we do charity and donate blood till it doesn't affect us and these things makes us get laid which makes our gene survive

I have a altruistic gene and some selfish gene the latter I’m yet to find out

the selfish gene does not mean the gene of selfishness.

"Claiming to be wise, they became fools,and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things."

@Dr.IanPlect

Жыл бұрын

tripe

...a gene that didn't look after it's own interests would not survive , thats the meaning of the selfish gene...

The poor need to help themselves...assuming the game isn't rigged against them.

I know that having empathy towards your relatives and friends has some self serving interests but why do we agree that slaughter houses and the conditions in which the animals live, being locked up in small cages, living in their own piss and feces is wrong. What does it serve us to kill the animals in a more humane way? Thanks in advance for your answers.

everything can be explained in evolutionary theory, but i believe that the idea of self has been confused. we are one. the more you can empathize (which does not mean to feel sorry for. it only means the ability to understand someone more fully) this can also be free will. . i believe its possible to do things for other people because it helps you in the sense that you ARE other people not because it necessarily helps you personally. smoke it in your pipe

@lukethegreat101

10 жыл бұрын

You are certainly on the right track :D If this topic interests you I would recommend reading the recent publications from Franz De Waal and Alan Bloom, "the atheist and the Bonobo" and "Just Babies: the origins of good and evil" respectively. Your comment bears resemblance to de Waal and Bloom's distinction between "empathy" and "compassion."

watch the video "whales adopt a deformed dolphin", just one case of animals showing care for OTHER animals, something that not even most humans have

The gene is always selfish. The survival machine can be either altruistic or selfish. The indivual altruism is brought by the selfisheness of the gene

Idgaff if I'm 40 years old...I want Dick to read me bedtime stories!!! xD

8:28 "We live amongst large anonymous populations of strangers, not kin who share our genes, and not people who we might expect to return favors. And yet we still have a lust to be nice." I don't think most people have a lust to be nice towards strangers, and the first sentence perfectly explains why. Nobody wants to help people they don't share genes with, or who are not likely to return a favor. Unfortunately, humans do not share the same levels of genetic relatedness as ants in a colony. When an ant helps another ant of its colony, it is basically helping its own genes survive: "How did eusociality evolve? How did bee colonies undergo evolution to become superorganisms?" kzread.info/dash/bejne/fGxn09uFiKTZfpc.html There are protests against immigrants, and nationalism is rising, in several countries around the world, because "nationalists are concerned above all by the fortunes of their own tribe": www.ft.com/content/59a37a38-7857-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475 In an individualistic society, you don't need anyone but yourself, you just use and dispose people for your own success, and it seems that's the path we are following: "Much of the research on the manifestation of rising individualism-showing, for example, increasing narcissism and higher divorce rates-has focused on the United States. Our findings show that this pattern also applies to other countries that are not Western or industrialized... Although there are still cross-national differences in individualism-collectivism, the data indicate that, overall, most countries are moving towards greater individualism." www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/individualistic-practices-and-values-increasing-around-the-world.html Sad but true. It seems we only help each other when we need each other to survive, and maybe currently we don't. Maybe in 1000 years... maybe in another planet... or maybe, as @TheLamelyNamed said, we will "die like pathetic selfish idiots", like rats in a closed space: "That Time a Guy Tried to Build a Utopia for Mice and it all Went to Hell" kzread.info/dash/bejne/Z6Fruo9qhpzUf9Y.html

great guy, great book, one of the classics. but no! reality is cruel and beautiful. I am a very empathetic and altruistic person but I am afraid it is sometimes because of misfiring (like some women's mother insticts left and right) , and most of the times because i let it work and channel it accordingly so it gives me allies and favors, girlfriends and sex, protection from others, better estimation of the future decisions because of proximity, great reputation and in general gives me higher chances to live, live nice and reproduce. It's just a more complex way to keep my gene going, Yeah it feels so good and that's my reward, the conditioning my dna imposes to its living isntance, that it allows it to still exist and mix with others. It's just some formation/information moving forward and slightly changing for some reason..

@Aethelhadas

4 ай бұрын

If that's your reasoning then you're not altruistic.. thats a lot of self-interest.

@SiEmG

4 ай бұрын

@@Aethelhadas not at all, reasoning and interpretation of phenomena (right or wrong) has nothing to do with empathy. if you have it you can't help it, you just do kinda feel how others feel. Now if you disagree is something else. Check the term "Psychological Egoism"

Why do they only acknowledge chimpanzees when describing our "distant cousin" ? Bonobos are just as equally distant from us.

If I got that right animals did not adopt altruism on a large scale because it did not help them procreate. Now, if we humans accidentally apply altruism, doesn't that mean that the reproduction of our genes is endangered by it?

@JamesTindaleArt

8 жыл бұрын

+JustI478 Accidentally or intentionally, altruism will always endanger the genes of the individual who decides to act in such a way. If you place the well being of another above ones self, then you are the first to suffer the consequences. Your chance of death has been amplified by your decision to be altruistic.

So feel free to rail on me for this, but I'm just throwing it out there. Couldn't this, for lack of a better term, superior human altruism have been learned by things like cultural ideals? But then again, I guess we would then have to keep regressing to know where the ideals came from

Why doesn't Dawkins believe that we are altruistic because populations which can work together more successfully can outcompete?

@Lolzrsable

7 жыл бұрын

Because that system is susceptible to cheats that do not inhabit those same altruistic traits, thus filling that once altruistic population with their "selfish genes" or selfishness.

Is that all a vocabulary issue? Maybe altruism is not selfishness ...Just convenience...

Could be because he sould leave the theology to philosophers to argue.

So, after all Mr Dawkins is not evil as many people think. He is chained and struggling with his won morals and human tenets. He can't explain why he is behaving altruistically which is contrary to his own selfish gene attitude. Did I miss something?: Please let me know. Thanks Mr. Dawkins. You just told us how humans are different form animals even though they share the selfish gene mechanism. And that is the vivid missing link between humans and other species.

So his conclusion is, we're kind to each other because we can think "further" than what our instincts tells us to do. I don't think so. I think the reason why we're kind to each other is because it's a one great way to keep a society intact. Human is a social animal. Why? because we're stronger in groups. Why crave for strong? to debunk any other species ofcourse. So the reason why we're kind to each other, is not because we "rise above" our instinct, but because of selfish reason.

He didn't explain the cause of human altruism, he explained the effect/result. Circular logic. He said we are altruistic because altruism survived in us. The question is why did it survive not how. Sugar-coated speech filled with flawed logic.

@oiuyuioiuyuio

3 жыл бұрын

What? you're an idiot. It's obvious why it survived, just like all genes: because individuals who had the gene survived more. Those who had the altruistic gene cared for their kin and helped them survive. Individuals who didn't have the gene didn't help their kin survive and so it multiplied less than their altruistic counterparts.

@davesmith3289

3 жыл бұрын

@@oiuyuioiuyuio Helping your kin isn't altruism, because some of them will also have the altruism gene. Altruism is helping individuals you are not related too, which helps their genenome (which doesn't have the altruism gene). When the altruism gene first appeared, it would be beneficial to other individuals in the population. Being generous to strangers reduces your fitness when you're the only individual in a population that behaves that way.

Congratulations- I heard you had a son and that he looks like ya.

Lol in my country its been like that since forever . Most people have brain damage here ?

I disagree with Dawkins that it is random kindness. Rather than being nice to all people equally, humans are more likely to be nice to those humans which share a tribal affiliation to them. This then creates modern racial dynamics, as well as inter group conflicts in politics, such as bipartisanship in American politics as an example. The kindness is probably rationally allocated across different "tribes" to which the human feels the most kinship, and kindness or favors are spread accordingly. This explains why people of similar ethnicity tend to stick together in similar communities, or the same grouping within religious sects. So it's not that humans have somehow transcended our evolutionary roots, it's more like we maximize our bets chances of return. A more familiar analogy I could use is diversifying stock positions for minimizing risk.

exatcly, it is the misfiring need, we feel better by helping others because it is like helping ourselves, the genes are still selfish

I might get kids if/when i get "rich".. But that would be hugely time consuming.. i bet.. A good mom could do 80% of it all perhaps. ;)