His Brahms 2nd is actually very good. I listened to it the other day, and it's beautifully played. I enjoyed it very much. Pahud's flute playing is absolutely delicious. One of the best recordings I've heard from the Berliners under sir Simon.

I’m a new binge watcher to this excellent channel. Dave is just wonderful on every level. I can sit and listen to him for hours. Fascinating find regarding Ravel’s LH Concerto. It turns out that Ravel’s scores can be sloppier than is normally given credit for. There are tons of mistakes in Gaspard de la nuit. He told several pianists about these printing errors and they’ve made their way down to us in various editions. You really have to do your own research and not depend on Durand to always be the best source. An excellent edition by Nancy Bricard for Alfred Publications has gone a long way towards correcting many errors in Miroirs and Gaspard. One wonders how someone as meticulous as Ravel could have settled for so many errors in his first editions. It’s head scratching to contemplate.

Dear Mr Hurwitz, Having only recently discovered your channel, I'd like to thank you for your honest reviews, delivered in language that doesn't need a degree in musicology to understand! I am already adding to my streaming catalog of reference recordings and other recommendations! With best wishes from Oxford, UK.

I will always be amazed by your seemingly endless creativity to describe how bad some things are. I literally burst out laughing when you got to the Brahms 3rd: "What it really needs is to be rescued from his baton, he's a predator". Delightful!

I was lucky enough to be a student at Birmingham Uni 78-81 and attended many of Rattle's concerts at the Town Hall..I remember a wonderful performance of Mahler 10 there. I was sitting at the back of the orchestra right next to the huge bass drum. Not knowing the work I was just listening and really absorbed in the music when the final movement started and the drum went THWACK !! It literally made me jump. Very disturbing and dramatic moment which I will never forget. Got me in to Mahler's music and I now have his recording of the 10 th with the Berlin Phil which is superb. He did a tremendously exciting Shostakovich 10 th as well !! Just thought I'd share this with you.. Thanks Rob

I agree Sir Simon is not really the best interpreter of anything, but I've always liked him as an innovator and musical leader. When the Berlin Philharmonic hired him, they tasked him with making them "an orchestra of the 21st century," and on that count I think he succeeded. And I like things like his pastiche of Haydn works, similar doings with Rameau, or the Bach passions. Did he he do Bruckner or Nielsen as well as Blomstedt, or Mahler as well as Haitink? Probably not. But he made the Berlin Philharmonic interesting. Note that most of these recordings - and I didn't realize it amounted to 45 CDs - date from the first half of his Berlin tenure; once they started the DCH in 2009, most of their recordings came out on their own label. So really the assessment here is for 2001-2009 or so.

Insightful observation on Berlin‘s lack of fun; Lenny actually told them the same when he rehearsed them in mahler 9

@mossfitz

Ай бұрын

I heard an interesting anecdote on radio here in Berlin years ago. It was an interview with a retiring violinist from the philharmonic who said that their performance with Bernstein was the best music they had ever made - and that for that reason, Karajan made sure he never got to conduct them again.

Great talk, lots of fun. My favorite was the comment about his baton. This brings me back to the first classical record l ever bought. Simon Rattle conducting the Sibelius 2nd Symphony, 1985. I did not know the piece before that and found the recording quite exciting. Since then l found many performances that l realized were better. Reminds me of the line in a Talking Heads song,”missing enough to feel alright”, from And She Was.

Thank you sir, once again, for the presentation and for being here with (and for) us. Three years on, for my part, your presence and truly remarkable work is an inspiration. This video gave me an idea for a new series. How about a Best (and Worst) Principal Conductor in the history of orchestra X? Obviously it's a lot of work, but a) You 've spoiled us and b) Many of us would learn a heck of a lot. In any case, we keep on listening - and watching DH.

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

Interesting idea, but I don't think it's possible because it's impossible to make fair comparisons.

I think Rattle was a better conductor when he was younger. I remember him from school and I've followed his career with interest. In 1980 It was to Liverpool's detriment that he was not promoted from assistant conductor to principal conductor of the RLPO and he went to Birmingham instead where his career took off. I only have a few of his recordings though. I do like his earlier Rachmaninov's Symphonic Dances and Mahler 10th. I've seen him live a few times, non more memorable than an electrifying Brahms 2 at a London Prom concert in 1980. He is a strong supported of the arts in the UK, not being reticent to speak out against Government spending cuts.

@PaulBrower-qr8hf

Ай бұрын

He's now on the brink of old age (he turns 64 this year), and he seems to have not developed as a conductor. He may have been conducting while failing to examine the works. Not knowing sonata form? Is there any excuse? Bernstein was a pianist, so he GOT IT! Previn in was a pianist, and where he did a work in sonata form, he GOT IT! Sonata form is EVERYTHING in Haydn and Mozart, and one can't do well with symphonies by anyone with any ties to sonata form... well, that rules out Beethoven, Shostakovich, and just about every symphony in between. He sounds like someone who could have learned something from Bach's Well Tempered Clavier and Beethoven's piano sonatas, neither of which teaches one how to conduct but certainly teaches one the essence of music. He could have spent time on the string quartet literature in a sabbatical from conducting and learned something about music. He didn't. It's now too late -- way too late.

I find Rattle to be the musical equivalent of Kenneth Branagh: he’s got where he has because of his skills as an impresario rather than through any outstanding talent. I’ve heard him conduct numerous times and have never found him to be more than adequate; the same goes for his recordings, with whatever orchestra. I wonder why the BPO chose him, when he spoke barely any German at the time? That said, I rather like that Gurrelieder and DH himself seems rather more impressed by this box than the headline suggests.

@ahartify

3 ай бұрын

Yes, Kenneth Branagh is one of those fellows who wears only one face and people call great acting!

Throughout this video I was thinking, "How do you make ___________ sound dull?" The blank is filled by Berlioz's "Symphonie Fantastique," Liszt's "Faust Symphony," Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring" and Schönberg's "Gurrelieder." How do you make these four pieces that are among the most emotionally intense and riveting works in the classical canon dull?

At last, a box that I have no qualms in passing up.

Hi Dave! Could you make an audio comparison of the finale of the Ravel Left Hand Piano Concerto? Thanks!!!

Rattle's first recording of The Planets was just as drab.

Rattle is definitely a mixed bag. On the one hand, I do quite enjoy the Rattle/Berlin rendition of the complete Nutcracker ballet. Well played and an enjoyable performance from start to finish. But on the other hand, the Rattle/Berlin rendition of the Planets is just so forgettable. Listened to it once and never listened to it again. Nothing about it stands out. It lacks the qualities that made other Planets recordings unforgettable, such as the majesty of Dutoit/Montreal, the thrills of Steinberg/Boston, and the marvels of Karajan/Vienna. And of course, the less said about Pluto and the other space debris that follows, the better.

Speaking of "L'enfant et les sortilèges," would you ever make a survey of worthy recordings? I adore that piece.

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

Me too, but I don't think I want to do a survey. Some works resist an analytical approach, and this is one of them for sure.

@holgadoencinasraul2820

3 ай бұрын

I adore it too. My favorite version is Maazel's.

Rattle is a real mixed bag for me - i saw him conduct the L A Phil and the Birmingham orchestra a number of times live - mostly when he was a young wunderkind - and found him to be a truly exciting, expressive and theatrical artist - But then he started recording and everything he touched turned out flat, distant and totally dull What happened? This got even worse when he moved on to Berlin Case in point - i saw him conduct a thunderous, passionate, overwhelming Mahler 2 live in Birmingham and was very excited to get his EMI recording of the same work recorded close to the performance I attended - and it could not have been more dull, colorless and pedantic. So it's a frustrating situation - at least i have wonderful memories of many very exciting live performances - and try to forget the recorded legacy for the most part (i do enjoy the Mahler 10 and Brahms/Schoenberg ) And, speaking of Wunderkinds, your bete noir Klaus cant even hold a baton next to Rattle as a young conducting stallion.

@johnanderton4200

3 ай бұрын

One of the best concerts I ever saw was Rattle conducting Sibelius 5, 6 and 7 with "Scene with Cranes" as an encore--with the CBSO. Many years later a concert with Berlin produced a disappointing Seventh in a weird program with Schubert 9 and some modern piece. He did make a handful of really good records (I still love his CBSO Sibelius 7 for its manoeuvrability and expansive concept), but most of his efforts in the core repertoire are humdrum at best, fussy and interventionist at worst.

I heard Rattle conduct Nielsen's 4th at the Barbican a few years back. It was exciting. He finished with Sibelius 7. That was OK. After the concert i went upstairs to eat in the restaurant where my wife joined me. Rattle sat at the next table with a few others. My wife said to me, go ask him to sign your programme. I just couldn’t. So i never found out how much of a diva he was

@eddihaskell

3 ай бұрын

I used to live near the Barbican in Islington (Angel Tube) and had a subscription to the LSO. How did you find the acoustics? All I remember was how drab they sounded -- but then others pointed out the acoustics of the hall were deadening.

Nice video as usual! Speaking of Berlin Phil, I wonder what’s your take on Berlin Phil Bruckner box is?

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

Life is too short.

@artistinbeziers7916

3 ай бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide True. Life is far too short for substandard Bruckner!

Hi Dave, thank you for letting me not buy the Rattle-Box! I was wondering whether there is ever going to be a Welser-Most-Cleveland-Box. After all, his tenure there lasted for more than twenty years with one of the best orchestras out there. Generally, I would be interested on your thoughts on his work there, as I can’t recall you mentioning him at all in any of your videos 😅 Best, Ramy

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

They've made very few recordings, so there hasn't been much to mention.

@user-qb9fk1rx8g

3 ай бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide I just recently heard some stuff on Spotify, but not on a major label as far as I can remember. Isn't that kind of weird? And now I've just learned that he is still in Cleveland until 2027. By then, his tenure will be even longer than Szell's!

I was pretty flabbergasted by a live Mahler concert with Rattle I heard on the radio here in Berlin - where he seemed to totally ignore THE most central technical aspect of Mahler‘s music (for me anyway) the broad, long, huge, monumentality of the phrasing. He seemed to concentrate on mini-mini micro moments and nothing else. But the crowd went nuts in jubilation at the end. I thought at the time that perhaps he was making use of the possibility that at a live concert the audience can connect the ‘bits‘ themselves in their imagination? - because of the special concentration in a concert hall. I know from live theatre that the audience are expected to do a lot of the imaginative work themselves. Anyone observed such a difference with live performance? Or is that a nutty thought? Was it just his attempt at a new take on Mahler - ‘dada‘ as you say?

I tried a number of times over the years to find something to like about Rattle's stuff, without success. Spotty at best. I consider "mediocre" the kindest description. Given the multitude of better conductors, past and present, whose recordings clearly are superior, I gave up.

There are some works I think Rattle always and undeniably nails; Mahler 7 & 10, the fun Brahms/Schönberg thingamajig are good examples. For all other repertoire, I’m equally or more pleased to listen to someone else. Rattle and the Bavarians are just down the road from me to do Mahler’s 6th in Chicago in two weeks, but I am making a concerted decision to see the Chicago Civic Orchestra doing Shostakovich 4 the following night for free instead. Giancarlo Guerrero will be the guy twirling the baton.

Is there a leftover edition of Ravel's concerto for both hands and orchestra ?😊

@danielgloverpiano7693

3 ай бұрын

Cortot wrote a transcription for two hands and Ravel was not pleased. There’s really no reason to do it that way, as the whole conception of the piece is based on the capabilities of the left hand. The melodies are written so the thumb plays them- which is the strongest appendage. That’s part of the genius of the piece. There is a struggle inherent due to the left hand alone. I think having a two handed version is counterproductive and goes completely against the artistic goals. The same was true for Bortkiewicz’s left handed Concerto. There’s a two handed version, which I think is not necessary. There’s a real thrill in watching a pianist traverse the whole range of the keyboard in the final cadenza. It’s like a struggle against an evil force. The pianist emerges victorious. This would be totally lost in a more fluent two handed version. In fact, the excitement would be thrown out the window. I’ve played the piece and confirm the demands of the cadenza. It’s a thrill to play.

What do we think of Rattle‘s work with the orchestra‘s own label, after he was dropped or didn’t renew his contract with EMI? There’s a Schumann cycle, a Sibelius one, some Beethoven, another Brahms, a bit of Mahler, etc. Plus his additions to the orchestra‘s multi-conductor Bruckner and Mahler extravaganzas (any chance of a future review of those? Rare case of having the orchestra at the centre of a cycle rather than an individual conductor. Blomstedt‘s Bruckner 3 was hot stuff among those, as was Järvi‘s Bruckner 2.). Side note: What impact did the often atrocious sound play in the assessment of these recordings? Yes, sucky interpretations are not rectified by aural glory and the Philharmonie is notoriously hard to capture well but hasn’t the BPO been consistently underserved by its sound engineers (already in the Abbado era)? Especially compared to the Karajan days (arguably with perverse and weird balances but in itself rarely bad). I feel like after half a century, they should know how to operate that hall by now.

Out of interest, what label is Rattle's Birmingham Mahler 5 on?

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

Tinnitus Classics. I made it up.

Thanks for reviewing SSRattle’s stuff. I can’t bring myself to buy any of his output.

I'd love to hear what Simon Rattle (or Roger Norrington for that matter) thinks about you Dave.

@jac9229

3 ай бұрын

Regardless of what Rattle or Norrington think about Dave, that won’t make their music sound better. I have not heard that much Norrington but what I’ve heard has been enough given the many superb conductors on CDs. I’ve listened to many more Rattle performances and it is not so much that he is affirmatively bad, it is how did he ever get the Berlin Phil job? The politics behind that selection would make a fascinating talk.

I find Rattle a very erratic conductor. Sometimes he can give a truly exciting performance then you get a drab uninvolved one. Nothing personal against him of course, however I think he did the LSO a favour when he stepped down in favour of Antonio Pappano a much more reliable choice who from my experience never disappoints. His conducting of Les Troyens (Berlioz) in a concert performance at the RAH some years back now, was absolutely riveting, in spite of the work’s longevity I never wanted it to end.

I also don't care for any of the completions of Bruckner 9. As a matter of faith, I think that Bruckner would have come up with something special for the finale if he'd been given a couple of more years. But what annoys the hell out of me is the billing of Rattle's recording as the "Four Movement Version".

Rattle always reminds me that some conductors are better off never being allowed inside a recording studio. I've seen him live in his early days, and while he was rarely outstanding, he was infinitely better than in a recording studio setting. On a crass note, the very thought of Rattle conducting Haydn or Schubert has my stomach somersaulting with revulsion. Please Dear God, we deserve better than that.

The brit critics loved the La Mer. I even bought a CD of it! I must try it again. I don't remember it as being at all bad .

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

Yech!

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

www.classicstoday.com/review/review-11915/

@neilford99

3 ай бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide I decided to prep myself by listening to the reference recording , Denève’ and the RSNO .

@johnanderton4200

3 ай бұрын

The Penguin gave it a rosette. I found it hopelessly fussy.

The performances weren't particularly special, but I do like that he/they put "Pictures" and the Borodin 2nd together on one disc - for whatever that's worth.

When he dared to conduct the Ring in Vienna, Rattle made such mistakes as to misalign a sect ion as simple as the End of Rheingold, and his GTD second act was a real disaster(""fantastic"" way of depicting Brünnhilde's disturbed Mental condition); when the cycle came to a close, most artists were applauded...when Rattle entered, he received a 'shower' of catcalls...unmoved, he just 'pulled' the next singer at his side...that's what he is...

@kanishknishar

3 ай бұрын

Which year was this?

I've got a little Rattle, but that's because there weren't any other choices. Such is the fraught life of the fan of, Henze, shall we say. (And Henze is as problematic in his own way as Rattle.)

@kanishknishar

3 ай бұрын

Rattle loves Henze yes. He performs his stuff occasionally. If you're interested you can find him conducting the Second Violin Concerto on DCH.

I own the Rattle Bruckner 9. By far the worst Bruckner I own (and I own more than 40 of all the symphonies).

Never been a fan of Rattle. Heard too many unremarkabke (dull, even!) recordings. His Berlin LvB symphony cycle is lacking in feeling. Mahler 10, very good. However, as always - a superb presentation. Thanks Dave.

Just wondering if you think Rattle has done anything really well. I don’t own anything with him conducting so I have no opinion.

@DavesClassicalGuide

3 ай бұрын

I mention several things in this box. His Szymanowski is also excellent.

@neilford99

3 ай бұрын

There's a Dave review of his Birmingham recordings. Some decent stuff in there.

It's one thing to be a youthful wunderkind, another to be grow out of it and become a musical statesman. Rattle couldn't do it. Look out Dudamel in NY!

One of the worst performances I ever came across with Rattle was Schumann's Paradies und die Peri, well the first half, then we left for the nearest pub to wash it down. Dull, tediously slow and unanimated, the BPh orchestra sounded dreadful...and then at another occasion we dreaded to go to Beethoven 9 ( got free tickets) and it was a splendid, at times spellbinding performance. A very inconsistent conductor...

I didn't think Rattle recorded Mahler 5 in Birmingham. The studio Berlin Ninth is dreadful--poked and prodded, turned inside out to find voices that aren't there. It is the only version I've heard that's worse than Bernstein's DG Concertgebouw reading

@maximisaev6974

3 ай бұрын

Perhaps my mind isn't as sharp as it once was, but I thought Bernstein recorded Mahler's Fifth with Vienna, not Amsterdam?

@johnanderton4200

3 ай бұрын

@@maximisaev6974 I was comparing Rattle's Mahler Ninth in Berlin to Bernstein's Ninth with the Concertgebouw. Bernstein's Mahler Fifth was indeed with the VPO.

@maximisaev6974

3 ай бұрын

@@johnanderton4200 My mistake and my apologies. Take care!

Rattle is certainly a peculiar case. I am not a Rattle's hater, as I think you are, but I do agree that his recordings are not the best and yes, in most cases they are mediocre. I think he is a peculiar case because in live performances he is not that bad, and I don't understand why his recordings tend to be so bland as they are. A case in point for me is the Symphonie Fantastique, I heard a live performance years ago, I think you can hear it in the Digital Concert Hall, and it was outstanding, bud as you pointed out, the recording in this box REALLY SUCKS. He must do something good because he is still very much on demand. Anyway dave if you went to hear his performance of Mahler 6th with the BSRO in New York I would love to hear your take on it. By the way, Rattle's recording of Mahler's sixth also sucks. But I like the Carmina Burana better even than Jochum's so... peculiar case.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 ай бұрын

I'm not a Rattle "hater." That is silly. I've praised quite a few of his recordings, including several in this box, but that's not the only comment with which I take issue here--most significantly the idea that he must be good because he's "in demand," First of all, no one is "'demanding" him. That has nothing to do with why people do or do not get work in this business, Second, being "in demand" does not mean that he "must be good." You only have to be mediocre and you'll get by just fine.

@federicorodriguez7222

2 ай бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, thanks for your response, I love it really. I agree that being sought after to work, whatever the discipline, does not mean you are good, and I am just a listener, I do not know how this business works on the inside. I suppose it is pretty much as you pointed out on the Mäkelä case in today's video, with Rattle I get why Orchestras would hire him because I have heard him extensively and has good things, but what I have heard conducted by Mäkelä either on disc or video (never heard him live) ... well, on that I agree with you 100% and for the time being I fear for the future sound of both Chicago and the Concertgebow, but time will tell.

Berlin lacks a Claudia Cassidy: perhaps she could have prevented the appointment of a mediocre conductor for what used to be a world-class orchestra. What a disgrace!

@paulbrower

3 ай бұрын

One problem is that Rattle is no longer young and ineperienced. He's posing as a Wunderkind at 64... Karajan, Solti, and Haitink gave that up long before that age.

"He's not helping the cause......" Which sums a lot of Rattle's conducting (IMO). Some his recordings are so bland and uninteresting they could potentially deter many new to classical music from wanting to find out more about the likes of Mahler, Debussy, Brahms etc.... That is why I have always thought Rattle does a disservice to many of the composers upon whom he inflicts his mediocrity. The record companies are equally culpable as they produce and peddle this junk.

I love when Dave talk about Rattle. WHATS NOT TO LOVE ?!