Im so glad there's finally a high quality review in english for this board. I've been wanting it but wanted to check out some reviews first, but there were basically none

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Great stuff. Pleased it was useful 👍

@Microphunktv-jb3kj

Жыл бұрын

14:40 well lol.. these keyboards are not meant for people who are not coders... these keyboards are literally made for people who use vimkeys.. if ur coder and dont use vimkeys and vsacode or smt... also pointless to get keyboard like this .

@sean_haz

10 ай бұрын

​@@Microphunktv-jb3kjdon't forget Emacs users ;)

Another very useful review. Thanks for all the great detail and benchmark (Moonlander) comparisons.

I'm so excited.. I've got one coming. thanks for the review.

By far the best review of the Kinesis 360 Pro. I've got the keyboard myself for a few months now after watching this video and i absolutely love it. Thank you Ben!

Awesome review, thank you! And exactly what I was hoping to hear.

Thanks I found this very useful while researching which split keyboard to purchase.

Your dry humour is amazing. Really appreciate these super in-depth reviews.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Appreciate that Jared 🙏

Excellent review Ben!

Increíble product !! Great review 🥰

Like always great review and I like how you compare the 360 with your moonlander thank you so much for taking the time to do these reviews

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Christian 🙏

Fantastic review

Everyone knows the best part of this is using the keyboard! That baby looks like it sounds sooooo good!! Awesome review, very detailed.

it was one hell of a review! thanks a lot!

@benfrainuk

Ай бұрын

Doing another review on the signature series in the next month 👍

Excellent review Ben. Trying to sort through which high end split keyboard I'm going to purchase. Many thanks from Nevada!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi Eric 👋 let me know what you choose and how you find it. 👍

I’ve been looking at the 360 or the Glove80, so I’ll be watching that review next. The price point does make it difficult to pull the trigger, but I know I need to try something for my wrists, and something with key wells makes a lot of sense.

Frighteningly great review

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

🤣

Great review! I got mine recently, you hit a lot of the issues I have with it. It's definitely not perfect, but for me it's the best keyboard out there. I don't want to mess around with a Dactyl. I swapped the home row keys from my Advantage 2 onto the 360, I highly recommend it. You can access the bootloader by using the modifier key, rather than having to hit the tiny reset switch. You also need those USB cables to upload your firmware. For non technical users, Kinesis recommends getting the wired version that uses the same software as the Advantage 2.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Ah, good point about boatload mode. Forgot to mention that. In fact, might add it back to my own keymap for convenience.

@karim009

Жыл бұрын

How better is the experience between 360 and Advantage2? Is the split/tilting experience really worth it? Or is the spacing in the advantage 2 already enough? I'd like to buy my first Kinesis.

@TravisHi_YT

Жыл бұрын

@@karim009 For me it makes a huge difference. You can get away with the advantage 2, however if you can spare the money, definitely get the 360. My only gripe with the A2 is that I couldn't pivot & spread my hands apart to suit me better, otherwise the A2 is still an amazing keyboard.

@karim009

Жыл бұрын

@@TravisHi_YT thank you very much

@karim009

Жыл бұрын

Sorry to bother you, I’d like to buy the 360 and I have another question: I’d like to swap the home row keys like you did, but I don’t own any kinesis keyboard. So my idea is to buy the 360 (non-pro), buy a set of replacement keys of the kinesis advantage 2 and then replace key. My question is: I’d like to have PBT keys, and the advantage 360 comes with PBT keys (the pro version comes with ABS key). Are the keys of the Advantage 2 ABS or PBT?

I would get one immediately if they change all the things you mentioned!! Very good review and change ideas🙌🏽

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I’m hopeful the software will improve in time. I’m still enjoying using it but yes. The Moonlander is the complete package 👍

I agree with you for the most part! I think the standard adv360 is probably what most people should get (unless they need wireless). While SmartSet is more limited than having literal source code, it's still flexible enough for what most people are going to want to do (remap, macros, maybe addt'l layers? idk). Honestly, I suspect that the people who do require more advanced key behaviors overlap significantly with the people who'd be able to handle the complexity of dealing with the Pro. By the way, you can flash your firmware without using the paperclip. It's mod-layer->the first preset key for the left half, mod-layer->the third preset key for the right. Much easier... I know in the manual it emphasizes the paperclip method, though. I'm not entirely sure why they didn't just tell you to use that option as a backup for when the easier on-keyboard method doesn't work.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi Jason, hear you with the key shortcut for flashing but I actually prefer just doing the paper clip and removing the short cut from my mapping. For me, I forget the shortcut, and would likely end up getting the board in that mode by mistake (hands like a mole! 🤣). But defo a choice for people who are more precise, especially useful when you first get it and experimenting with mappings a lot more. 👍

it is always amazing to see how you present these reviews - i feel like you read my mind and the flow of the review is so logical - thank you Ben. Could you link the magnetic cable you used with your moonlander - at 18:48 mark in your video? Thanks

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Thanks 🙏 Cable is this one: amzn.to/3VyLkZd

Wanted to get the ergo dox but needed wireless. When I learned about this keyboard and it hitting all my requirements I pulled the trigger. Some of the reviewers on Amazon say the build quality is better than the ergo dox. I’m sold.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Excellent. Let us know how you find it 👍

Thanks for the review Ben, been eyeing up one of these boards for a while now, think I'll stick with the Moonlander for at least the time being.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Sensible choice. 👍

I love these well thought out reviews. I have a moonlander right now but am interested in a contoured split. This looks good and so does the moergo glove80. I'd be interested in your opinion of that one too if you one comes across your desk.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi Jesse, I’ve been using the Glove80 for 3-4 weeks. It’ll be the next review 👍

You can get a thin strip of clear double-sided tape to secure the wrist rests so they do not move if you're heavy handed. The thin and clear double-sided tapes are usually very easy to remove also, so you're not going to have a hard time removing them and you also only need a very small piece because they are very sticky, sort of like it's made of some king of sticky gel.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

That’s a good shout 👍 although, I’ve left mine in the box for now and don’t miss them. Tempted to give that a try though 🙏

It would be interesting to see you go down the Ben Vallack route of designing, 3D printing and building your own ideal keyboard, although from what you've been saying about keywells and such it might not be the way to go for you. The review was very interesting, I've been using an Ergodox for ~9 months now and I'm absolutely in love with it. I've been working on designs for my own keyboards which take heavy inspiration from it, and the keywell is very much something that interests. That said, as always, very interested to see what you do next Ben, always a pleasure to see one of your videos pop up in my feed! I'd be very interested in a video comparing QMK and ZMK at some point, comparing features and ease of configuration and compilation etc - though only if you'd be interested in making such a video of course :)

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Well, my (admittedly messier) version of that was the Dactyl. I’m not interested in getting my keymap down to like 10 keys and just as many layers. My brain just isn’t agile enough for that! I’ve also realised I appreciate the robustness of a truly manufactured product. The ZMK v QMK comparison is a good shout but have a bunch of Neovim content I want to get done next. Thanks for the interest and feedback 👍

@iduran

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk Looking forward to more Neovim content!

@susseratal

Жыл бұрын

@@iduran likewise. Definitely lots to look forward too :)

Thanks for the review. Do you have an opinion on, or experience with, the KeyMouse Track? It seems to have a similar design, but has a Trackball on each side. I’ve been looking for something that allows me to not have to jump between the keyboard and the trackball, and the KeyMouse Track seems like a better option than the UHKv2 (with the trackball module) or a custom Dactyl (especially because of the time and effort that requires, as per your previous video).

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, that’s not one I’ve looked at.

Thanks for the review! it really sounds honest in every aspects which is something hard to find these days on KZread. If you're ever keen on upgrading your camera setup, some close-up shots of the board and how your fingers actually move within the well would be lovely!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that’s fair criticism. I was in a bit of a rush to get this one out as I have something on for the next couple of weeks - hence I was a little short on the b-roll shots. Will try and not let that happen again!

Thanks for the great video and review. In the last 4 months, have there been any improvements, software-wise, in the stability of the bluetooth? Also, are you using ZMK v2?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I’m on v2, not really any different BT wise. I don’t see issues with connecting to computer or keeping that connection, its even I turn on both halves, the right often fails to find the left.

I have only used ergodox ez for 3 years and the split keyboard is very comfortable. But its keyboard surface is still flat. In order to accommodate the little finger, the entire palm needs to be moved up a certain distance. The concave keyboard hopefully solves that problem.

I am not a programmer nor a power user. I have been using the advantage 2 for over a year and thought it was great. Saw the 360 and bought it. I LOVE IT!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Excellent. Good to hear. You gone for the standard or pro?

@douglashughes2331

Жыл бұрын

@Ben Frain standard the pro has different software I didn't think I would understand

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@douglashughes2331 yes, it’s the pro I’m looking at here. Standard software definitely more straightforward but lacks some of the fancier stuff I appreciate. If it’s not something you need the wired definitely seems like the smart choice. Enjoy 👍👍

Do you think the Dygma Defy can displace your Moonlander? Got a Moonlander coming and just now seeing the Defy. The built in tenting looks solid it seem like a tremendous amount of logic and useability has gone into the bent thumb cluster. Interested in your thoughts...

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I have one in order so will reserve judgement until I receive mine and try it out! 👍

Hi and thanks for the review! If you had to choose between the Moonlander and the Kinesis Advantage 360, which one would you choose or recommend? I need to try an ergonomic keyboard as I am starting to develop pain in my left wrist. I see many advantages with the Moonlander but I am worried that the Kinesis well shape makes it totally superior in terms of ergonomics. Thanks in advance!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

If you possibly can, I’d recommend buying them both, trying them, and sending back/selling the one you don’t want. It’s impossible to say for sure which one would best alleviate your problems and at least this way you would know for sure!

I don’t have it but I agree with you.. I really wished they’d include a case for it. I work as a consultant where I am at the client’s premises a couple of times a week, at my company and also work from home.. I really wouldn’t want this to break while traveling.. also the costs in the US vs importing it to Europe is insane. The price is close to $1000.

@jimmyvales425

Жыл бұрын

Have you considered buying a Nanuk briefcase? They are professional-looking, but more importantly protect the 360 very very well. I can send details of my model if interested. Not cheap, but very happy with what I got for what I paid.

@ChristianBischoff79

Жыл бұрын

@@jimmyvales425 I am interested in knowing the model of your Nanuk briefcase and more details.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@jimmyvales425 sure, which model? 👍

The first thing I did when I got mine was put my blank home row keys from my Advantage2 which have that more pronounced scoop. Also glad you called out the software. Having used Orxy for the Moonlander and Ergodox, this user experience is pretty bad. I come from QMK and an a develoer myself so this is the user experience I want, but sadly I can't recommend this keyboard even to most of my developer friends who just want a programmable keyboard, but on the level of the Moonlander!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I hear you. Setting up and tweaking is definitely a rough ride. Once you have your layout settled it’s great, hardware wise, connection issues aside. So much potential!!

Thanks for the review! I found it very useful. Just as a note: they also sell a "non-pro" model, which is wired and uses their own "SmartSet Engine" customization software instead of ZMK. If that's the same software as the Advantage2 uses, I've found it pretty easy to use even as a mostly non-hardware person. So I'll probably upgrade to that one from the Advantage2 when the time comes.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Yes, same as advantage2. Definitely more straightforward but you lose some of the more advanced functionality 👍

I just bought this keyboard, and my God is the key mapping process obscenely complicated. Great review BTW.

@benfrainuk

6 ай бұрын

Have a look at my video on the ZMK keymap editor. I find it better than the Kinesis one 👍

Great review. I ordered a pro version because of zmk but I'm worried that wireless will add issues compared to standard 360. A dongle would be nice when working with kvm. Will you keep it or use the moonlander ?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

At the minute I’m taking the Moonlander to the office couple of times a week and using the 360 in the home office. Like them both too much currently to choose one over the other

@trackvegeta8716

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk I'm in a similar situation, at the office I'm using the xbows and at home advantage 2

I have been waiting for a decent review of the Advantage

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I hope this is it 😂

@codeforme8860

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk This has saved me £500. I really want to like the advantage but the software is such a let down. Might aswell stay with my moonlander and dactal

@xDevelinful

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk It would have been great if we could get some insight on the typing experience vs the dactyl and the moonlander, the thumb cluster etc.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@xDevelinful hmm. Thought I had addressed that in the review. Perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on those points. Thumb clusters about the same. Anything more than 3 keys I have little use for. Finger wells better than Moonlander but I prefer the a flatter thumb area. Built in wrist rests are great. Definitely better than the manuform in that regard.

Nice review, With the "wired mode" can you plug either Left or Right half in? I understand they communicate between the splits wirelessly, but just curious as to whether the right or left half *MUST* be the master

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Left half must be master

I've used a keychron k2, and stopped using it because it just felt so uncomfortable. Switched to a magic keyboard because i love how thin it is. This 360 looks awesome and it being ergo is definitely a plus. I live in South America and I don't even want to begin to imagine how much it will cost to bring it over hehe, I will probably look into it in the next year.

@kuya5000

Жыл бұрын

exact same situation as you!! went from the keychron to a bunch of other keyboards and finally to the apple. i've spent so much time trying to love mechanical keyboards but the reality is the flatter and less travel the better, the magic keyboard is superior to anything else in my opinion (but i do want to try this kinesis)

@driden1987

Жыл бұрын

@@kuya5000 haha, good to know i'm not alone !

@mrcvry

10 ай бұрын

Tried low-profile? They are in the middle. I like it so far.

@driden1987

10 ай бұрын

@@mrcvry yeah those are miles better than my old k2

Thanks for covering this keybaord! I'm thinking to choose the pro or standard...or the moonlander. It almost sounds like you might've been happier with the standard non-pro version? It would be wired and have easier software. Just no backlighting. Do you think the non-pro version might not have the same shortcomings? Or, would you still choose the moonlander over the A360 and the A2? Thank you!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

You need wireless/pro to enjoy the features I need (autoshift/tap dance). I just think programming them should be possible for anyone, not just people comfortable with code). If you don’t mind doing the code and you don’t mind the price, it’s terrific

@ballgum

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk Thanks for your reply, i appreciate it! ahh ok, i haven't used SMartset. I'm guessing smartset is kind of limited... Do you prefer the feel of the 360 over the moonlander, and will you switch to it?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@ballgum honestly like them both about the same currently. 360 perhaps has the edge but that might just be the novelty factor. Smartset too limited for my needs.

@driden1987

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk I'm interested in a retrospective and comparing the both further down the line, once the novelty factor worn off

I have always been curious about its shape and how it would feel, although it does not seem to bring that much to the table for me to consider over my Dactyl.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

The big difference for me is better build quality and built in wrist rests

Nice review! Just one question: Where is the Mac Command Key on this keyboard? Currently I use it with my left thumb next to the space bar. How do you use it there?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Well, you can have it anywhere you want it 👍 I have mine bottom right of the left side (not in thumb cluster)

Thanks for the review. Can you elaborate on the unreliability of ZMK? I'm interested in getting a wireless split keyboard and wasn't aware that there could be issues related to reliability.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Wakes my Mac from sleep. When switching sources, sometimes don’t connect. Sometimes when you power on, right side can’t find left. Etc. It’s not all the time but it’s not never either. Bottom line is that BlueTooth is never going to be a solid as wired. One side plugged in defo improves reliability though so that is also an option.

Great review. I’m wondering if those PBT Blank Keycaps are black as the ABS ones. They look very much the same shade as the keyboard body, ie, lighter than black. Can you confirm?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Lighter than black. The majority of the blanks are like a slate grey and the homing keys are like a grey/blue. 👍 they both look good on the board but I prefer the blanks

Hey, thanks for the great review! Super useful Quick question: how good is the battery life? Both with lights on and off? Thanks again!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Without lights, weeks. With backlight, Day (s)

@hamm8934

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk thanks! Think imma get mine once the pro is back in stock :)

Great review, Ben! Still uncertain if the wired version is better or not. Will think more about that. Thank you!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Anecdotally, connection has been far more stable since I’ve amended the battery reporting interval: github.com/benfrain/Adv360-Pro-ZMK/blob/V2.0/config/boards/arm/adv360/adv360_left_defconfig#L46 and if you are stuck, plugging in via usb works well enough. Think I’d still recommend wireless just because it gives you more options.

@romansinicyn8803

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk That's nice to hear. I'll give the wireless version more thought. I've come to the conclusion to upgrade my keyboard because recently I've got a bad case of carpal tunnel syndrome and can barely type. Want to also get the vertical Kinesis mouse. It looks like you don't have any ergonomic mouse recommendations on the channel. Do you use one? Which one do you think is the best?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@romansinicyn8803 the only mouse that has ever given me trouble is the Apple Magic Mouse. For years I have been using the Logitech MX Master (links in my uses page benfrain.com/uses) and that has been fine but never needed to use a fully vertical mouse so have no advice there. Hope you get something that helps 👍

Great video. This is the best breakdown Ive seen. Im hung up between choosing the bluetooth or wired version. Any thoughts?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

If you go with the Pro (wireless) you get the ability to re-program however you want and you can always run it with one half wired via USB. Despite the shortcomings I highlight in the review I would still pick the Pro over the wired

@KonflictYT

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk Thank you for highlighting this, I completely missed that detail. This is a game changer for my decision.😊

I have the ZSA Moonlander and absolutely love it. However, the ergo design on this Advantage seems to be intriguing

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

If you do get one, I find them easily interchangeable. Have the same layout on each and takes no mental overhead to go between the two. 👍

@strictnonconformist7369

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk the Moonlander does NOT have an identical key layout, the Ergodox EZ has the more equivalent layout, with more keys than the Moonlander. The Moonlander has 4 fewer keys, besides the thumb clusters having a distinctly different layout. They are still similar and easy enough to switch between, I've got both the Ergodox EZ Glow and the Moonlander. I feel the most ideal layout for me has as many keys as the Ergodox layout, but the thumb clusters like the Moonlander, with adding 2 keys to each thumb cluster, with the 32 definable keyboard layers, with a little more flexibility for assignments. I'm working on designing/building that vision combined with added pointing hardware.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@strictnonconformist7369 don’t remember saying they were identical? Did I say that in the review? I mean the layout is so similar you can have the same mapping across the boards. I know that’s true because that is how mine are set. Couple of differences in the thumb clusters but the rest is the same

@strictnonconformist7369

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk you did in the review, which, also being a developer and working towards maximizing the usage of layer maps (and thumb clusters are huge there, along with 4 keys difference) it was a surprise to me. My mappings aren’t identical as a result.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@strictnonconformist7369 coming from the Moonlander I have two keys on each cluster of the 360 I never touch. Just had to check what they are mapped to (ctrl on each side, which I already have elsewhere). Another two are mapped to page up/down, which again, I have elsewhere. Layers just don’t work for me. I’m sure if I did have more than a couple of layers that might be useful but as it is those extra keys are a bit surplus to requirements for me. But sure, if you aren’t already used to a Moonlander and need keys for something else, those extras might come in handy

Is the thumb cluster on the 360 better / more usable than on the moonlander? Can you easily reach all the thumb keys or just the two which are closer? Also, is the experience with the ZMK much better than the proprietary one on the non-pro 360 or is the kinesis one good enough also? I would rather buy the wired version but that does not come with zmk. :( Thank you for your video, I've found it informative and interesting to watch. Great work.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Comparable to the Moonlander really. Some keys I use my thumb with but the top ones I tend to use my fingers

@jasondicioccio880

Жыл бұрын

I have the pro, but I've dealt with SmartSet on other Kinesis boards. It's great, honestly. It works very well. It's not going to be as flexible as ZMK, but it'll easily handle remapping, multiple profiles, macros, etc. It has a windows+mac GUI app, but you can also just edit some text files on a USB drive that it will mount for you to change mappings/macros. You can also just remap keys or create simple macros from the keyboard itself (no need to use any software or deal with any files)

Are the key wells a game changer? Looking to switch to my first split keyboard from the MS ergonomic one - 360 initially looked great but the more I read the more I'm starting to have reservations. Wells seem to be the only thing keeping me on a fence against moonlander, any thoughts?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Personally, I wouldn’t call them a game changer. I think they are inarguably more comfortable but I wouldn’t base my buying decision on that alone. I have Moonlander and 360. My two favourite boards currently. Hard to recommend between the two. If you want everything to ‘just work’ go with the Moonlander!

Hi Ben. Thanks for the reviews! Have you covered the Kinesis Freestyle Edge? I do like the 360 and the dygma defy but the Edge has those macro keys and is much cheaper.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi Lee, no that’s not one I’ve looked at or used, sorry

@LeeCampbellgplus

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk thanks for letting me know. There's reviews out there but I like your level of depth and lack of hyperbole.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@LeeCampbellgplus appreciate that 🙏

The keyboard looks interesting but even as someone who codes I don’t want to have to code just to edit the keyboard layout . That sounds like a pain in the ass . Thanks for the review none the less .

I recently got mine and I agree with the shortcomings that you mentioned totally. Trying to get used to it as it is my first ergo/split keyboard. Do you mind sharing the link to your adv360 repo, config as well as a link to the other keyboard you mentioned (the moonlander)? Thanks in advance!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi! Sure, added the links to both in the description 👍

@iduran

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk awesome. Thanks again!

@shleebeez

Жыл бұрын

did you ever get used to it? ive never used one either but am thinking about taking the plunge

@iduran

Жыл бұрын

@@shleebeez unfortunately no, I tried for several weeks, both the adv360 and the moonlander, and didn’t get used to either completely. I did get better with time but always felt that i was not as efficient as with a regular keyboard. Also, the fact that the adv360 comes with brown switches (at least mine) didn’t help. Other mechanical keyboard’s just feel nicer in terms of typing experience. I’m still hoping that on my holidays I will give it a try once again to see if I get used to them, as I don’t want the money I paid for them to go to the bin 😅

@shleebeez

Жыл бұрын

@@iduran yeah, sometimes it takes a while to change over to a new tool in my experience. i ended up ordering one too but i'm also not paying for it... just telling myself it'll be better in the longer run so better get used to it lol

oof just bought a moonlander and am awaiting its arrival and I did have my stomach in my mouth a bit listening to you describing this board (which I might have bought, instead), but agree with you at the end - I think in the time it takes me to sort out my 'endgame' mappings for my zsa, kinesis should hopefully have gotten their act together with the firmware process and my keyboard savings pot should once again be ready for an emptying

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

The keyboard pot is certainly one that requires constant filling!

Thanks for the sharing! Have you tried to pair it with a iPhone? I’d like to know if this keyboard is compatible with an iPhone, and more importantly, if it can switch the profile between a PC and iPhone quickly because I will need to do this at work. Thanks !!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Sorry, for the delay, only just got time to test. Typing this into my iPhone from the Advantage 360. So, yes, quick switching works fine. 👍

Ben, have you tried the Keyboardio Model 100 yet? Curious if that might help you find true keyboard nirvana :) I have an Atreus and have found their Kaleidoscope firmware and gui for customizing your keymaps (Chrysalis) really nice to use.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I haven’t. Like that it is made of wood but unless they want to send me one for review 😀 I’m not sure what that would offer over a Moonlander and as you might imagine my budget for trying any more keyboards right now is a little low 🤣

@DavideCerriGA

Жыл бұрын

I have the keyboardio and it sits gathering dust, while the kinesis advantage get 12hrs a day of typing. I have the Atreus for a secondary computer, which i use. The keyboardio just is a bit too big, and makes the keys just a bit too far for me to type comfortably.

@xsyncopatedx

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk it has the sculpted keys / well and the palm keys. I have a Moonlander too but have been tempted to try the Model 100. This hobby is so fun but expensive :)

@nickgoogle4525

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk A significant difference is the more aggressive staggering which you might like or not. I think it is better. Also the thumb keys are better and the sculpted keycaps are also very good. I wish there would be an extra thumb key on each side although.

@nickgoogle4525

Жыл бұрын

​@@DavideCerriGA in which sense do you find the model 01 or 100 too big? Too thick or something else? Due the sculpted key caps the keys should be easier too reach, shouldn't they?

Hi, I've watched your Kinesis360Pro and Moonlander reviews and now it is the time to finally make a purchase. Currently, I am using Solfie ergonomic keyboard, but due to some technical issues with the board, I've decided to buy something more "professional" than the DIY board. On one side I know that Moonlander has those easily switchable layers to which I've used to using Solfie, but from another hand, the build quality of Knesis is really impressive. I am just terrified that I will spend cash on another board that will not survive even 1 whole year without technical issues as my Solfie did :P I know it is different for every person, but I am just wondering which of those two you would pick up for yourself if you could pick one?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Right now the Moonlander. It is absolutely rock solid with the best support/infrastructure. The Advantage 360 is perhaps a little more comfortable but the Moonlander is the complete ‘no hassle’ package.

@skowyrnyknur8659

Жыл бұрын

​@@benfrainuk Thank you very much! So the Moonlander it is ;)

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@skowyrnyknur8659 let me know how you find it!

The lack of good software to customize the keyboard is insane at this price point. But I still think the lack of any carrying case is the main deal breaker for me. Love the look of the keyboard and I trust that it's more comfortable than the moonlander, but I will be going for the moonlander with the blanks.

@alanturing575

Жыл бұрын

ZMK allows for custom key mapping

@stanislawcronberg3271

Жыл бұрын

@@alanturing575 Once I dug in a bit deeper to figure out how it works it's not so bad at all. I'm waiting for the 360 Pro to arrive at the end of the month. Seeing that ordering a moonlander to Europe would cost me almost as much as a 360 Pro I decided to go with it. And the Dygma Defy was also a keyboard I considered, but I kind of really dislike the design and it is not contoured either. We will see how it turns out :)

The reason why I stick with the Advantage 2 is because I have to bring the keyboard back and forth from the office. The one piece lightweight design fits in a backpack well and I don't have to worry about it. The thing is a tank. This new model does not seem like such a tank and a hassle to transport.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Solid reasoning 👍 I’d have no concerns with the durability of the 360 but I’d definitely want a case of some sort to put it in

please could you tell me what usb-c cable are your using for your moonlander? It seemed to me that it has some kind of magnet?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Sure, it’s this one: amzn.to/3iw2Crs

Great review. If we talk about an alternative from Dygma, it is better to offer Defy not Raise

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Yea, although the Defy isn’t out yet so while I expect it to be great, I don’t want to recommend until I have actually tried it. 👍

really liked your detailed review. i am currently using keychrone k2v2 as software developer. I gotta try these split, ergonomic keyboards. how much difference this can make if i switch to. Whats your advise?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

If the board you have already is programmable, the difference comes down to comfort. It also helped me to have better discipline using the right side of my board with the correct hand

@primegurjar

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk make sense. thanks.

Thank you, Ben, for the useful review! I'm in Australia, so disadvantaged re price cause they are all expensive with international shipping and currency exchange! Whatever I choice will be crazy $$ investment!! So my focus is what is going to be better ergonomically. What would you recommend, Moonlander, Advantage 360, other?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Do you have a local reseller? There wasn’t much in it for me getting it to the U.K. but it was a little cheaper from local reseller than direct from Kinesis. With regards to best economically, I’m afraid I don’t think I’m qualified to say. Really depends what’s comfort for you and that involves many factors. For me, the 360 is possibly a little comfier but please don’t think that means it’s comfier for everyone. I always just end up buying both the ones I’m interested in, and selling the one I don’t like as much but I realise that isn’t an approach everyone wants to take

thanks for the vid! where did you order it from? amazon and osmond ergonomics have it listed for way more than 550 pounds! were you able to order it directly from the US or?

@benfrainuk

11 ай бұрын

I ordered from Osmond. There was a pre-order discount at the time.

@user-kn4wt

11 ай бұрын

@@benfrainuk ah got it, thanks. at the moment it's closer to an absolutely eye watering 700 pounds

@benfrainuk

11 ай бұрын

@@user-kn4wt Wow. Yes, that’s very, very hard to justify 😮

Have you tryed their freestyle edge board with the lift kit?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

No. Afraid not.

Thanks for the video! Do you think this keyboard is easy to travel with? I have the Advantage 2 at home and would love to take that typing experience while traveling. Would you say it fits in a regular backpack without too many issues? Thanks!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I think you will want a case for it, even if going inside a backpack. It’s considerably heavier than an Advantage2. One of those camera ones with foam inserts you can pull cubes out of would probably work. A Glove80, although also lacking a case when you buy it, is far lighter. Worth thinking about. Check out the review of that if you haven’t already. 👍

@emak3391

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk awesome, thank you! One other question, would you think it makes sense to replace the Advantage2 at home with the 360? Or is it basically the same? Thanks!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@emak3391 probably makes most sense to take the Advantage2 as your travel board and keep the 360 as your home one.

@emak3391

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk hey there! I am not sure if you mentioned this. But do you know if the 360 with bluetooth has an option to be wired in to avoid connection issues? Thanks!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@emak3391 you can connect USB to one side and that communicates with the computer. However, communication between sides still happens over Bluetooth

Thank you for the review! You mentioned you like it flat so you probably didn't try medium and high tenting settings. I'm trying to find the tenting degree for high setting. Would you be able to measure it and share the info?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Probably a question for Kinesis support. They may even have it in the FAQs. Mine has gone back to Kinesis for repair so can’t measure at the minute

@jtjt376

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk Thank you for responding

Could we get a shout-out for the Kinesis Freestyle Edge RGB please? It's the perfect option for baby's first split keyboard. If more people heard about it, it would grow the community

Thanks for the review. Do you have screenshots or video where you sit and work with this keyboard, i am just curious, because when you stand you can put your wrists on the keyboard and still have 90 angle in the elbow, when sitting(at least for me) usually means that my elbows will be on the table, so the part of the hand between elbow and wrist will be not parallel to the table. Comparing to more thinner keyboards like moonlander - is it ergonomically better for you?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

There is no doubt that the Advantage, and to a lesser extent, something like the Glove 80, will require you to raise your chair a little more when sitting. If you have an adjustable desk (and frankly, if you can, and don’t own one, get that before a new keyboard!) that is easily solved without needing to adjust your chair.

@commentality3263

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk thanks for the reply. I do have both, desk and chair, so when you adjust desk and chair your elbows dont touch the table am i right understand?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@commentality3263 with the advantage, when I sit, I just adjust my desk a inch or so lower so that my arms are 90° at the elbow.

@commentality3263

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk yep, i got this idea. So am i right understand that with kinesis your wrists is the only point which touch the table , (i.e. it touches keyboard and keyboard touches table)?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@commentality3263 Correct

I am looking into geting the moonlander, i never used split or columnar layout, never tryed to touchtype, after the first 2 rewiev videos i was sure i want it, no matter what other keyboards i see i don't want them, i want the moonlander to play KSP and land on the Moon 😂

So the dactyl manuform was a fail only because of the wrist rests? It seems solvable doesn't it?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Yes but on reflection, I think my time and money would have been better spent just buying something ‘off the shelf’ but I did enjoy the experience. Also worth it if you have a 3d printer as you can continue to refine the perfect shape for your needs

I have been using old Kinesis Essential for almost 25 years and for most part I have always been happy with it, apart from the rubber f1-f12 keys. I am looking for a replacement now. I have 2 questions about 360: do you easily get used to the fact that there are no physical f1-f12 keys? I a lot of shift ctrl, alt + fn keys and this might complicate it too much... The other question: can the keyboard sit well on to of your knees?

@benfrainuk

5 ай бұрын

I don’t have much use for F keys so I’m perhaps not best person to ask. However, it is very simple to map them to a layer. I don’t think the keyboard would sit well on your knees at all.

@jakubjiricek7806

5 ай бұрын

thank you @benfrainuk , and thanks for your other videos, too.

Awesome video, thanks! I think you should add Amazon Affiliate product links in the description for such videos. It'll help to find the product page faster and will earn you a bit of money here and there.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi! That’s a great idea Oleksandr. Sadly they are out of stock at Amazon currently but I’ll definitely add those next time they are there 👍

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Managed to find a link to one and add it 👍

How does it compare to the Moonlander? Can you make a comparison?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi Jim, I make comparisons to the Moonlander throughout the video. Is there something specific you had in mind I didn’t already cover?

What’s the yellow board on the wall behind you?

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

That’s a HMKB with a boardwalk PCB 👍 ordered it on a group buy and then got into split boards so it doesn’t see much use (but makes for a nice wall decoration 😁)

I had to subscribe

Hey I just got my advantage pro...I cannot code what so ever . Is there any way I can remap my keys without coding?

I bought the writs rests recently, I think they added a rubber pad to stop them sliding. I can't make them slide.

Does Kinesis Advantage360 allow you to type in different language than English? Like Japanese or Russian? Is keyboard layout build in in this keyboard or we can use any layouts install on our Windows? I've tried to build Engram layout on ZMK and failed with assigning punctuation marks for letter's keys. Now I think that Advantage360 USB version could be better for me. Bluetooth version also not supporting foot pedal, wich needed if you want to use it for Shift (heavily used in German language).

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

The pro one, which uses ZMK allows you to set any switch to any key so you can do whatever you like 👍 the mappings ’live’ on the keyboard itself, not the operating system.

I just got one, haven’t been able to connect to Ubuntu 22.04. Have you been able to run this on Linux at all?

@benfrainuk

10 ай бұрын

Sorry. Not on Linux at the moment. I do remember Bluetooth being spectacularly problematic when I was on Linux but attributed that to my own ineptitude 🤣

I desperately want this board but that price is just too much for me right now. I’ve had to provide every single tool I need to do my job. The school has zero tools. It was an insane investment but the keyboard is the one thing I haven’t brought myself to do. However, my hands are killing me using the standard Lenovo one so, maybe worth a shot for this IT man.

Good to see my keyboard on your wall. Maybe I have good taste 😂

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Yellow or grey?

@Michaelno

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk grey. I love it

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@Michaelno you know, I even went to the trouble of lubing the switches in that grey one it feels great (Holy Pandas if I remember right) - I just never think to use it since getting into splits. I should definitely give it some time as I love how they look/feel 👍

How about the wired version with the company’s own software? I don’t need a lot of layers or wireless.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Solid choice if you don’t need the extra stuff ZMK brings to the table (tap dance, auto-shift, mod-tap etc)

The thing is by the time you're spending $500 on a keyboard you clearly care and willing to put in time for the set up. So I don't think it's a big issue.

Try the Dygma Defy too!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

It’s on order 🤣

With regards to the dactyl, why not just get a wrist rest?

@benfrainuk

11 ай бұрын

Yep, you can do that. You’ll need one for each side, which you then need to ensure stays in position as you move the sides. Or do a build with the integrated pass which would be less hassle but arguably less aesthetically pleasing.

How does the thumb cluster compare to the moonlander.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Covered it in the video but is there something I can provide a little more detail on?

@DavideCerriGA

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk yes. Maybe I'm a bit of an odd user, but i can click multiple keys with my thumb on the kinesis, but on the moonlander looks like it might not be possible to do.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@DavideCerriGA think they are pretty equal in that regard. I’ve never had an issue with the Moonlander. The top ‘red’ button I usually hit with an index finger and do a similar thing with the top keys on the 360. All the others are thumb hits for me. 👍

Which is better for RSI this or ez dox or moon for design

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

RSI is a very broad term. It really depends on the problems that you, personally suffer with (wrists/knuckles/thumbs). It’s impossible to say which board will be best for you. There are too many factors. Do you know anyone with one of these boards you could try? If not, it t come down to making an educated guess and then seeing how you get on. They tend to hold value well so if you found, say, the ErgoDox didn’t help, sell it and try the next.

Can we reverse engineer this for 3d printed alternatives?.. I kind of want to have it as a hot swap…

@Ben you need to index your chapters from 0:00 so that they show up in the video scroll bar. Otherwise great video.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Hi, I have them in the description. Is that not what you mean? I’m still new to this so eager to learn!

@user-bb6xb3cz1k

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk so if you index them starting from 0:00, the timeline on the bottom of your video splits into chapters, which is more user-friendly👍 EDIT: check any video from big channels like linus tech tips to see what i mean; Once you hover over the bottom part of the video with your mouse you can see in what section you are in 👍

@user-bb6xb3cz1k

Жыл бұрын

Also bonus Question: what keyboard would you recommend for people who also have to use laptop keyboards frequently? Im curious about ortholinear but if it ruins my typing on my thinkpad it doesn't make sense probably 🤔

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@user-bb6xb3cz1k ah! Excellent. Didn’t realise I needed one starting at 0:00! Added that now, could you check if it displays correctly now? Thanks for the tip - I’ll go and check all my other videos now!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@user-bb6xb3cz1k yea, so if you are happy typing on the think pad probably doesn’t make sense to give yourself a problem! You can obviously get yourself a standard layout mech keyboard of which there are a few bazillion but while plenty of people switch easily between staggered and columnar layout, there is some extra cognitive load

Hello, Ben! Looking to get my hands into this very specific board model (pro) If it isn't indiscretion, could you share with us the keyboard box dimensions in your preferred unit system of measurement (I ain't American), please? Thanks in advance, your neovim vids rock!!!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

The Advantage 360 Pro box is 47x27x10cm. Obviously suppliers might box it in an additional box to protect the product box 👍

@nekketsukai

Жыл бұрын

Is it mm or cm?

@nekketsukai

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time, Ben!

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

@@nekketsukai it say above, mm

@nekketsukai

Жыл бұрын

Woah isn't it small? Do the two halves of the board come on top of one another? Thanks for replying.

Really wish they gave some other key switch options.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

I hear you! I would not have chosen the brown but I have to say, I really like them in this board 👍

my dream would be to combine this with a linux tablet! it feels kind of redundant to have a laptop with a keyboard if you use this ...

I'd avoid products by Kinesis -- I have had three of them, and all of them do the same thing. They take FOREVER for the computer to connect to it. So if you're doing a dual boot -- it was impossible for me to select a different OS, it would get to the boot manager, which would time out, and start the default OS, and then be booted into that OS before the keyboard would allow you to do any typing. If you're using a KVM and share the keyboard, mouse, and screen. You'll sit there for about a minute waiting for the keyboard to finish doing whatever it is it does. I now use a Mistel MD770

@msytdc1577

Жыл бұрын

Which Kinesis model(s) are you referring to? I know the original Kinesis Advantage had a wonky USB connection with the 2 port USB hub built in and yes that one was definitely slow to connect. The Kinesis Advantage2 did away with the USB hub and I've not noticed it having any delay in connecting to numerous PCs. KVMs due to the way they work could definitely have greater compatibility issues, I'll grant you that, but that would not necessarily be the case for every KVM, and that scenario is a bit of an edge case that most users would not need to consider when making a purchasing decision.

"Read The Fantastic Manual ... it's a really good piece of literature 😅"

Could you please please upload a video on how you use the GUI Graphical tool to change the mapping/layout. I’m want to change from the US layout to a UK and Swedish one but just don’t understand how to add secondary symbols like £ and € etc

@ChristianBischoff79

Жыл бұрын

Great review! I would also love to see a video about how to change the keyboard mapping.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

Won’t get chance to do another video this side of Christmas but in case you are still struggling… I just started with the default Kinesis layout, then changed each key to the basic of what I wanted (no fancy tap dance at this point for example). At that point I pulled the repo to my local system, opened the keymap in my editor and made further changes there. All the keycodes for every key are on the zmk.dev documentation site: zmk.dev/docs/codes

@ChristianBischoff79

Жыл бұрын

@@benfrainuk Thanks for the tipps. :-)

Bluetooth itself is not the issue. It's the low-leve Bluetooth programming that is with most manufacturers just off the shelf code.

@benfrainuk

Жыл бұрын

There are also different BlueTooth modules of differing quality. That might also be a factor!

What holds me back from buying such an ergonomic keyboard is the thumb keys. Multiple rows of thumb keys just doesn't make sense. Another review I found, confirms this. Programmers constantly use the ctrl key. It should be thumb-front-row. Not half a kilometer up and having to raise your wrist to reach it and try not to touch the thumb key below it. One row of 5 keys fanned out under each thumb seems to me easier to reach.

@benfrainuk

11 ай бұрын

The fact these boards are programmable means you don’t even need to use the thumb keys if you don’t want. You can have any key in any position you like 👍 Home Row mods are a common choice now so that all your modifiers are a hold of your home row keys. Worth considering. Pain to set up initially but very effective when done. 👍

WANT.