Dave. Bravo bravo bravo!! Wow. Holy Molie. Jeesh! What a talk. What a joy. What knowledge. What brilliance. Your viewership should be 1m at this point. You are a creative genius who has filled such a musical void for me and I am sure for many of us on here. I am thankful beyond words. Thanks for this amazing talk. One of your best yet. Every single aspiring classical music person should watch this channel. Every person who has any kind of passing interest in music should watch this channel. You are like a fine wine. Gets better with age. I have all of your top Recommendations but I am going to pick up The Shaw and the wit. Thank you again!! Bravo.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Alan.

@cdavidlake2

9 ай бұрын

I heartily concur. Dave truly is a force of nature, his commentary fully the equal of its subject matter.

I discovered the piece when at a memorial service for a former master of my college, it was noted that he had been a member of the Sydney Philharmonia Choir. Moments later members of the choir scattered throughout the congregation rose to sing "Wie lieblich sind deine Wohnungen" and I completely melted as I sat "inside the choir". The consolatory nature of the work is what I responded to emotionally. It's now one of my favourite long-form works of any type. ( Please do one of my others: the Schubert E-flat piano trio. )

When I was 8 or 9 years old we were in Richmond, Virginia, while my father was doing research to finish up his dissertation. And the Richmond Symphony Orchestra did this German Requiem. All the rehearsals were on campus, and my mom took me to all of them and to the performance. I have loved the piece since then. I grew up with the Klemperer studio recording, so it's hard to distance myself from it, but it is truly, truly great. HOWEVER! There are two recordings that are not mentioned that I think are both absolutely wonderful. But they are both from the 1950s and are mono. But the sound of both is plenty good enough. 1. Schuricht -SWR on Haenssler - just what you would expect from Schuricht - exciting, disciplined, full of details 2. Celibidache - WDR Cologne (1954) - ten minutes faster and in every way superior to his Munich version, which is a self-parody.

I recently discovered this piece, which has become one of my very favorites and was floored by the Klemperer recording with Fischer Dieskau and Schwartzkopf. Thanks for this video David!

@donaldjones5386

2 жыл бұрын

Schwarzkopf on her best behavior here. No cooing or braying.

@johnpickford4222

Жыл бұрын

@@donaldjones5386 Elisabeth Schwarzkopf never needed to be on “her best behavior” you ass. That is her interpretation (“the cooing or mannerisms) and approach to music. I haven’t been bothered to dislike her but appreciate the effort at interpretation rather than just being content to hit the notes.

I have loved this piece since I was a teenager, when I was going to Mormon early-morning seminary (don't ask!) I can't say I was shocked to hear you say you hated it for decades; I understand! But my seminary teacher liked to put on a classical record or two as we were gathering at 6 AM, and one of his favorites was the Mormon Tab Choir (yeah, I know) doing the first and fourth sections. It wasn't until much later that I got to know the whole work--and then had the chance to sing it in the chorus with the Utah Symphony and our beloved Abravanel. I have just stumbled onto a KZread video with the Norwegian Soloists' Chorus and Orchestra, and boy! I love it even more. Grete Pedersen is dealing with a chorus of 26 and a small orchestra here. They all look very young. To me, a lifelong lover of this music, this is a brilliant reading. And: 68 minutes! She doesn't dawdle or milk it. I wish there was a CD.

That gear-shift in the 6th movement has always been one of my favourite moments in the Requiem though it’s interesting to hear how it can be perceived as problematic:)

Another informative and entertaining video. I stumbled upon Klemperer and his "granitic" Brahms Symphony box and it won me over. Thanks so much for your channel.

I’m so glad I came across this. I’m conducting it next month and, like you, it’s taken me a while to warm to it. Some great things here - not least, don’t let it be boring !!! Thank you.

Wow. This was a very powerful episode. Thanks for describing your journey to appreciating this unique work. I never really "got it" until listening to it right after my discharge from the Army. The Klemperer EMI is a masterpiece. I have never heard the live performance and will track it down. Thanks for mentioning the Leinsdorf version. I am not always a big fan of his stuff but I have always liked that recording. There are a couple of Carl Schuricht performances floating around. I remember really liking one with soloists Maria Studer and Herman Prey.

Dave, if a piece you used to hate eventually gets an hour long review, I'm very much looking forward to your 3-hours discourse on Lalo's Symphonie Espagnole, or a full evening's worth of banter about all the best and worst versions of Ravel's Tzigane... Just kidding, I loved this long talk about a piece that's so close to my heart. It wasn't always, though. Like you, my appreciation was marred at first by a recording that just didn't click with me (Previn, the old RPO version, not the new one with the LSO). Things changed when Klemperer crossed my path.

@bigg2988

2 жыл бұрын

Le Klempereur. Yes.

David, I loved this evaluation of the Brahms... I listened to the end, and I was wondering why the Klemperer version was not mentioned. I became more and more anxious as you neared the very end, thinking it hadn't even made the inclusion. I was on tenterhooks.. I was so afraid it would be dismissed, but thank heavens it came out on top. I LOVE it. One thing if I may.... here in the UK we have the Philharmonia chorus, and in Klemperer's day they were stupendous. And indeed they are on this recording of the Brahms Requiem. Thank you very much.

The program notes of my favorite recording (Blomstedt/SFS, I think they were by Michael Steinberg) emphasized greatly that the German Requiem is not about the dead, but about those who remain, drawing parallels to Whitman writing of the families of the Civil War dead - the survivors are those who suffer, and need comfort.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Uh, what I said...

@ColinWrubleski-eq5sh

2 ай бұрын

That comment reminds me that there is, unless i am utterly mistaken, a Paul Hindemith Requiem-like thing that sets some of that Walt Whitman poetry offering condolences to the living. Contrariwise, the ultimate version of the Requiem that is NOT for the living, but to threaten the dead, is the setting by Verdi, comments about which make a perhaps surprising appearance in the passages of 2001: A Space Odyssey depicting the utter loneliness of astronaut David Bowman in the spacecraft Discovery in the aftermath of the psychotic break experienced by the computer Hal9000. The author (Sir) Arthur C. Clarke has his omniscient narrator describe the musical selections Bowman radiates through the ship. Vocal music exacerbates rather than relieves his sense of isolation and alienation from humanity, and the Dies Irae of the Verdi Requiem is the final straw---> "when the trumpets of Doomsday echo through the heavens, he could endure no more." Instead, Bowman found peace in the instrumental architecture of, primarily, J.S. Bach, and occasionally, J.C.W.T. Mozart. (^-_-^)

In 2015, I was fortunate to hear/see San Francisco Symphony/Herbert Blomstedt perform the requiem. The pre-concert speaker spoke about the requiem being an awkward piece to program because of it's length. A Brahms organ piece was performed before intermission and then the requiem. What a night! I would say my top three requiem recordings are: 1. Gardiner (Philips) 2. Blomstedt (Decca) 3. Giulini (DG) I didn't really get the piece until I bought Gardiner's CD and highly recommend it for anyone struggling to like the requiem. I just ordered Antoni Wit's recoding (Naxos). Really looking forward to it.

Dear David, there is not a lot of people here in Argentina to share my love to Brahms' music with... so, you can imagine how much I enjoy your talks about the subject. The German Requiem was always a musical mistery to me, a Pandora's box. But after watching this video I could fix my ear on a particular fragment of the 2nd movement and build up the rest of the listening process from there. Thank you very, very much!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

"Talk less. Listen more." What a great piece of advice!

Thank you for mentioning Bruno Walter’s performance, despite the choral limitations. True story - as a college student I picked up a copy of the Walter/NYP/Westminster Choir recording one Saturday afternoon at a used record shop, knowing nothing about the piece but the price was right (less than a dollar as I remember). The next day I skipped church because I was “tired,” and plunked Brahms, his German Requiem, and Bruno Walter on the turntable and went back to bed. Of course I was asleep within minutes, because, well it was boring. HOWEVER…about 15 minutes in I was shaken awake, literally thinking the world was ending, then realized it was the SAME PIECE, SECOND MOVEMENT, with all hell breaking loose, telling me I was made of nothing but grass. Boy did I get dressed and off to church quick. Later that afternoon, still in a state of shock, I listened to the whole thing twice, and it changed my life. I’m sure there are better performances, much better recorded sound, much better choirs - but this is the one I hope they are playing in heaven. Thanks for the memories!

@DavesClassicalGuide

Жыл бұрын

Great story!

@yanyu3055

8 ай бұрын

Can’t stop laughing

Dear David. I got to know your channel thanks to the videos of your Repertoire series. I think it is the series of your channel that has achieved more subscribers and visitors, so I miss a lot that you make more videos on the repertoire of concertos, symphonies and other important works, since at least, you have many masterpieces to analyze your best recordings according to your criteria, so I encourage you to retake this interesting cycle. Best regards from Valencia, Spain.

@DavesClassicalGuide

11 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. There are currently 475 repertoire videos (and many other similar ones, such as the Ideal work lists and so forth). I'm making new ones all the time (just did Tchaikovsky 5th), and have no intention of stopping--but on the other hand, I see no need to rush either!

A feast for the musical devotee, David, and your delivery is so natural, too. Brahms would have loved it.

My two recordings have been Robert Shaw/Atlanta and Andre Previn. I generally have difficulty with choral music, mainly a matter of adjusting to the sonic texture. But listening just now to Blomstedt with San Francisco I was immediately struck by the clarity and forward movement. Thanks for that recommendation!

@eddihaskell

Жыл бұрын

Yes, I can understand the German being sung in the San Fransisco recording--- it is hard for me to understand sung German sometimes, although my German friends tell me that they can't even understand Wagnerian German sometimes in recordings -- it was not just me. And I listen to lots of Wagner.

Big brahms and german requiem fan here. I wasn't familiar with the Kegel recording. I am listening to it while typing this comment, and I am in awe. Thank you very much, and greetings from Brazil!

The German Requiem is one of my favorite pieces, and has been for a very long time. I first heard it at Orchestra Hall in Chicago with Daniel Barenboim conducting (Jaqueline DuPre played a cello concerto that night, also). I've also played it in community orchestras on more than one occasion. The piece is louder than it seems on recordings. Brahms doesn't usually write "brassy" or "edgy" brass parts. They're blended into the texture, but are still quite loud. In fact, one of the few times I experienced a slight ringing in my ears (an ode to Tinnitus records? LOL!) was during a rehearsal of this work with a really good community orchestra and chorus with a conductor who encouraged the strings to match the brass in intensity, instead of telling the brass to be quiet, as is the case with most community orchestra conductors I've played under. That approach makes a huge difference in the string sonority, but I digress... As a trombone player, I sit right in the middle of the action, so to speak, so the sound completely surrounds that part of the orchestra.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the observations. I quite agree! Of course, it would still sound better with a tam-tam.

Hi David, thanks for the terrific-as-always overview. I was surprised that the Previn/Royal Phil recording on Teldec didn't make your list. Terrific sound, pacing and the most sonorous cast (Samuel Ramey and Margaret Price) of all time. Have you considered putting up a video on the Mozart Piano Quartets? Two of my desert island works, and you can always get them on one CD!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I find the Previn on Teldec to be dreadful.

this is real criticism and insight. thanks so much, David.

So happy you left room for other opinions on the Kempe. I've owned and loved it since lp days, still haven't heard a performance that comes closer to my ideal even though the recording, good for its age but a fair way off today's standards, does handicap it a bit.

Perhaps Henry Jame's statement is true to music too: "Nothing, of course, will ever take the place of the good old fashion of 'liking' a work of art or not liking it; the more improved criticism will not abolish that primitive, that ultimate, test." (The Art of Fiction)

@bbailey7818

2 жыл бұрын

And those likings change. I remember early on being tepid about Brahms' symphonies and now I can't live without them.

1:04:04 I love your enthusiasm in this part. What makes it priceless is - you are so right! My respect for Otto Klempere(u)r just grew an inch. (Because it was already high, mind you. ;))) I confess in not having heard his version(s), but that' gonna change. So far I held the Giulini for the best in my collection, interesting how it will compare.

La durata del video è pari alla durata del Requiem. Ben fatto!

I would totally watch a series of videos about the works you didn't get and the recordings that made you get them ❤

@DavesClassicalGuide

9 ай бұрын

Interesting Idea...

Great and spot on review, as always, Dave! I have yet to find a whole performance of this work that I am completely happy with personally; however, I have created a playlist comprised of four performances with which I am quite satisfied. Here it is movement by movement: I. Shaw II. Shaw III. Blomstedt (Holzmair) IV. Hickox V. Klemperer (Schwarzkopf) VI. Shaw (Stilwell) VII. Blomstedt The Hickox is a sleeper as the other movements are quite disappointing, but the excellent singing (and not too slow tempo) of his fourth movement make for the most enjoyable rendition of this movement I have yet to hear. Blomstedt’s handling of the fugue in the third movement is incredible: He manages to make it sound like a powerful locomotive that cannot be stopped until the C naturals start popping up in bar 202. At this point, the conductor locks up the wheels, and the train skids down the rails to a perfectly timed halt in the station before it can crash into the double bars. I agree that this piece is too “fugue-ee” overall. Both Brahms and Mendelssohn (two of my favorite composers) have a seemingly unhealthy obsession with Bach. I have an unhealthy obsession with both Mendelssohn and Brahms, but, fortunately, I do not write music, so no one else has to suffer as a result of my fixation.

Thanks for mentioned the oft-overlooked Giulini on DG which features possibly the best choral contribution of any recording. A keeper. Shout out to my old choral mentor Vance George who prepared the chorus for Blomstedt’s Decca recording from SF, which won a Grammy Award.

Wow! I had not considered that you did not grow up around Klemperer's recordings. I did, so I am 'used to' him. I take for granted how well he did things. Hooray, you found his Brahms Requiem!!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Some were always available, but many were not (or only briefly so), and of course it depended on the composer. I wasn't a big fan of Brahms generally (aside from the First Symphony) until I got to high school in the late 70s, and by then Klemperer's recordings were already nearly two decades old (or more) and were not current options for young collectors. I associated the name "Klemperer" with his son Werner, who was playing Colonel Klink on Hogan's Heros.

@DavidJohnson-of3vh

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide Col. Klink...chuckle. A funny character.

Regarding your comment that movement 2 has a Baroque quality, the "Denn alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras" theme directly quotes the opening chorus of Bach's Cantata No. 27. Coincidence? Maybe, but Brahms knew his Bach and eagerly followed the Gesellschaft edition when each new volume appeared.

@yummyyum36719

2 жыл бұрын

That is my favorite movement of the work. That's because very dark somber music about death makes me smile. I don't know why, but it does.

Mahler had planned to introduce the young Bruno Walter to Brahms,but Brahms' advanced bad health prevented this meeting.Pierre Monteux did get to meet Brahms once.I believe Monteux is the only musician to meet the great Brahms in the flesh AND live to make stereophonic recordings.

@leestamm3187

Жыл бұрын

One other that I know of is Wilhelm Backhaus, who met and played for Brahms as a boy.

@maestroclassico5801

2 ай бұрын

I know Walter himself said that he never met Brahms but "knew people who knew him"

Many thanks for your extensive review. I really appreciated your honesty in revealing your longstanding dislike of the piece and then how you came to appreciate its greatness while remaining ambivalent about certain sections (like the fugues). The fact that the recommendations of some music critic friends helped with this change of mind was also dispelled any notion that the critic operates in a hermetically sealed solitue: it can never be "just me and the music/recording." I had to chuckle, though when you mentioned that it was Karajan's 1964 DG recording of the German Requiem that engendered your initial and subsequent dislike of the piece. For that recording was my first exposure to the work, but in my case it was love at first hearing. I still cherish that old recording; it doesn't sound insincere to me (and Janowitz is heart-wrenching in her solo). Later, however, I came to prefer crisper, clearer, and lighter versions such as Ansermet and Leinsdorf. I was pleased that you gave both of them a thumbs up. Finally, I wanted to mention that my understanding of the piece got a huge boost when a few years ago I had to sing it in a performance. The choral parts may sound effortless in a good recording, but they are formidably difficult. Just when you think Brahms is going to let you relax--such as after the athleticism of that fugue in Movement 6, he makes you have to concentrate even more, and strain even harder to sing the punishing (but to the audience simple-sounding) choral lines in the concluding movement. Brahms demands everything from his performers--even lowly choristers. Thanks again, Dave for this long but riveting review!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I decided finally to do it when you mentioned Ansermet--such an underrated performance. I just thought it was time to go for it. Thanks for your input.

@davidaiken1061

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, Ansermet is great in Brahms. Never fussy, never heavy. One can only wish he had had a better ensemble to lead for all those decades--but his noble efforts on behalf of the Suisse Romande say something about the greatness of the man, as a human being as well as a musician. I also wanted to mention that the EMI Klemperer is my version of choice these days. He, too, is in some ways an underappreciated conductor. As you point out, his reputed "slowness" is only part (and not always a part) of the story.

Utterly fascinating presentation! I was introduced to this piece from the inside. 60 years ago I was in the Harvard Glee Club and we sang this with the BSO under Erich Leinsdorf. One of the supreme musical experiences of my life. The music is still inside me 60 years later. Imagine singing “ Und alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras “ surrounded by the BSO sound !

@moby628

8 ай бұрын

Amazing! I was in the audience, a 15 yr old surrounded by the Symphony Hall sound as you were. I was stunned by the piece even at that age. My sister was in the choir as well. The Requiem has never left me as I've been involved in numerous performances since that indescribable first moment. "Und alles Fleisch es ist wie Gras “ indeed! with eyes glued on tympanist Everett Firth throughout.

Brilliant review. I've sung it a few times and concur that it is more effective performed on the faster side.

I got to take a moment to thank you David for your review. As a guy who likes requiems (Dvorak, Suppe, Mozart, Kozlovsky, Kabalevsky, Faure, Berlioz, Foulds), Brahms' masterpiece is something I have never quite gotten myself into, for some (unexplained) reason. Giulini's recording is perhaps the safest bet. I must explore further (and Verdi's for that matter). So thanks again.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

My pleasure!

@bigg2988

2 жыл бұрын

Late to the party, but you got me interested. A shout-out for mentioning the Suppe (one many would not expect!), but even more for the Kabalevsky. This is supposed to be one atheist guy by default, or am I missing something? But seems he crafted something existentially moving when considering death? I have to listen! Thanks!

@davidhollingsworth1847

2 жыл бұрын

@@bigg2988 You bet. I did manage to get Brahms' German Requiem in not one, but in three really stupendous recordings: -HvK with the VPO, Van Dam and Hendricks (DG). -Blomstedt with the San Francisco SO (Decca). -Gardiner with L' Orchestre Révolutionnaire et Romantique and the Monteverdi Choir (Philips). And I got Verdi's Requiem, finally (Leonard Bernstein with the LSO, Arroyo, Domingo, et al., under Sony).

As I listen to this beautiful music and hear David telling us how bad he thinks it is, I wonder how apt is the maxim on his shirt: "Talk less and listen more"!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

You should take your own advice. Had you actually listened to the video--even just the first five or ten minutes--you would not have written what you just did. And I say this aside from the larger point of this entire channel, which is to insist that everyone has the right to enjoy what they wish and dislike what they wish without the kind of priggish and sanctimonious finger-wagging that makes classical music such a daunting and unpleasant proposition for so many.

@curseofmillhaven1057

2 жыл бұрын

Catherine be fair. I don't always agree with DH but I'd never question the sincerity of his opinions, which is always based on his extensive knowledge of this subject and the amount of listening he has done. He freely admitted he didn't get the work initially but just because he still has justifiable concerns about the effectiveness of certain aspects of the composition, doesn't detract from him aknowledging it's significance or it's beauty. We shouldn't just hold up certain canonic works of art as being perfect (they often aren't) as this just adds to the unhealthy idea of classical music as religious dogma. I'd never lightly let anyone's opinion sway me, but I'm open to persuasive and informed argument (which comes through talk) and I'm secure enough to take things critics often say with a pinch salt.

Gday dave, that is an amazing gong behind you, i love it

Hi David, thank you for this great review on this work. This piece has become one of my absolute favorite works. However, when I first listened to it, (which was like two years ago, since I'm not that old anyway....... ) I was mostly uninterested. I thought it was pretty and I could also recognize it as being a masterpiece, but I wasn't enthralled with it. Oddly enough, it was Gardiner's recording that really got me into it.... and believe it or not, it was his second one... :-) However, I love the first one far better. I had to laughed at your remarks on Gardiner...( I must agree) :-) Though his first recording it really great, and me being a Shaw fan... I also keep Robert Shaw's telarc recording as one of my favorites, too. Thanks so much for this great video. I am not sure if this is allowed, but if you haven't already, do you think you could do a video on Berlioz's Requiem sometime? I know right... all this talk on "death".... :-) but I love Requiems and would be so glad to see a video on Berlioz's Requiem at some point.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I will definitely do it!

Thanks David, I do love the Klemperer 1962 recording, I also love the 1976 Loren Maazel with Hermann Prey ,I'm a Prey fan so need to get the Klemperer with Prey too when it's affordable lol

I enjoy your commentary and respect the vast musical knowledge and depth you bring to each one of your analysis Dave, even if we may disagree at times. You’ve done few requiem reviews but I believe not the Mozart one, yet. Any chance you may tackle that in future? Thank you

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Many have asked, but I dislike the piece and don't regard it as true Mozart. It's not a priority.

David, I have yet to hear Blomstedt’s recording but strangely enough it’s his recording of Schicksalslied - a work I first heard 15 years ago with that very recording - which I have not heard bettered. It’s, as you would say, fabulous. Gorgeous strings, perfect tempi and the choir is on top form. An underrated piece, much like Brahms’s Rinaldo.

The Dutch for 'Oh death where is thy sting?' is O dood, waar is uw prikkel? Just saying.

@tonywatts6699

2 жыл бұрын

Dave I think I ought to put in the same amount of work as you have done for my feelings on the Requiem are very similar to those of you and GBS.

@niek024

2 жыл бұрын

That's from the Statenvertaling from 1637?! Newer translations use 'angel' for 'sting', which makes way more sense these days.

@murraylow4523

2 жыл бұрын

OMG, thanks :)

@mogmason6920

2 жыл бұрын

*P R I K K E L* What a word!

@ThreadBomb

2 жыл бұрын

@@mogmason6920 Have you not heard of "prickle"?

Hello Dave Klemperer!! Yess!! He is the man to make you listen! He always brings his personality into the music. Now I wonder if you have come to like Pfitzner's Palestrina as well? Best wishes Fred

Glad you mentioned the Leinsdorf: my first recording of it, so I kind of imprinted. Interesting that it took you a long time to 'get it' as a piece... if we give you another twenty years, do you think you'll find musical expressivity and delight in the sounds of a counter-tenor? Or will that take a bit longer? :-)

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

We're talking geological time.

I agree completely on the Klemperer. When I was a teenager and first sang in the chorus in this piece, Kempe's was the best available. No longer, of course, although the solo singing is wonderful. I'm happy that you like the Ansermet. It's more "lithe" but very fine overall. In general, I pay more attention to the soloists, and you more to tempos. There are so many good versions that unless sound, tempos, soloists, etc. are all to your liking, you should look further. At least some of the Lutheran solemnity will always come thru. The piece was written to console the living, of course. I wish your commentaries were briefer, but I enjoy them.

Your excellent recommendations are always welcome. Personally, I most enjoy Tennstedt's recording with Lucia Popp. Norman was great, but Popp always resonated better with me.

Hi Dave. Just watched your video - that hour flew by. I have the DG Karajan recording ripped to my iPod. Can't say it's that bad but certainly not great. I also have the Blomstedt recording which I enjoy immensely (reminds me in some areas like the second movement with the Klemperer recording). I remember being at a thrift store several years ago. Another customer there had the Klemperer recording in his pile. Had I only got there a few minutes earlier. With that being said, I would like to get a copy. Which pressing has the best sound quality? I remember the 60's angel records not having great sound. I suspect the CD versions will sound better as I'm not sure if any lp remasterings were ever done.

What a talk and what a personal journey! I have the studio Klemperer and a pirate Swedish Furtwaengler recording with rather local soloists and a very long final movement. I prefer the Klemperer. Out of curiosity have Naxos or Supraphon given you feedback as far as any increase in sales from using samples from their recordings in this chats??

@DavesClassicalGuide

Жыл бұрын

No...it's not an easy thing to measure.

I first encountered the work in the form of an excerpt -- the 2nd movement only. I loved it immediately. I've struggled ever since to overcome the feeling that the rest of it is dull by comparison. Maybe Klemperer could help me feel differently...

I was once told that that when Brahms called it "Deutsches Requiem", he meant it to be understood in the sense of "vernacular" requiem, not specifically German Requiem. He assumed that when it was sung in non-German countries, it should be in the language that the audience understood. I am aware of two English language recordings: the mono Toscanini/NBC broadcast (not issued by RCA, but it was on Naxos Historical Series) and the stereo recording by Ormandy/ Philadelphia (with Phyllis Curtin & Jerome Hines) on Columbia (has it ever been issued on CD?). The German-language Robert Shaw/Atlanta recording on Telarc was a missed opportunity (Shaw was the director of the NBC chorus in Toscanini's recording - CORRECTION: My mistake, the NBC Chorus did not take part in this 1943 performance - it was the Westminster Choir).

@djquinn4212

2 жыл бұрын

If I remember correctly, there were plans for a Shaw/Telarc remake in English with the Mormon tabernacle choir, which was made by Craig Jessup. I don’t know if anyone has particularly strong feelings for/against this particular recording but it does exist.

@johnfowler7660

2 жыл бұрын

@@djquinn4212 Actually, Ormandy used the Mormon Tabernacle Choir in his recording (or the grandparents of the current choir).

@bbailey7818

2 жыл бұрын

I do wish Toscanini had done it in German but perhaps right in the middle of WW2 that was mildly un-PC. He was going to do it German in 1954 but was too ill by then. It would have been his last concert. I have the lp set of the Ormandy/PO which I got second hand mainly for the Brahms-Rubbra Handel Variations on Side 4! But the Requiem isn't bad. I am sure it will be reissued in a forthcoming Ormandy/Columbia complete stereo box along with around a million other CDs.

So I usually try to sample your recommendations, and doing so always plays out in one of two ways: I discover something new about the work, or it confirms that it just doesn't mean that much to me. I've heard many of the ones you recommend the most and those you trash the most. I long ago came to listen just to that "How lovely are thy dwellings" movement and the good ones and the bad ones all pass muster for my unenlightened ear. Time I guess to dust the piece off again and give it another shot.

That’s is exactly the same section that was my hook into the Requiem .. interesting I like the post crescendo phrase which is so sweet . I was 37 living in rainy England at the time Definitely music for the rain ;)

I’m enjoying this series, it helps point towards buying value for money. I’ve made a list of ten CDs I’d like to buy but having difficulty sourcing the same recordings. Many seem to be unavailable as illustrated in your videos. :(

I am encouraged by DH's initial struggles with the German Requiem. He is open to so many forms of music--and his enthusiasm is so inspiring--that I feel consoled when he occasionally doesn't initially find a way into a canonical masterpiece. I'm still working on Debussy and Ravel (not to mention a swath of grand opera), so DH gives me hope that that I'll find my way into them, someday. As I watched, I was surprised and pleased to see DH praise the Leinsdorf/BSO recording. I picked it up on sale in the early 90s and it became my go-to German Requiem. Lithe, unsentimental, and powerful, it's a great performance from an often underrated conductor. What we hear as "getting out of the way" is the result of scrupulous, disciplined musicianship, and Leinsdorf had that throughout his career.

as always, i love your recommendations. you made me discover leinsdorf's version which i now love. i do keep coming back to previn, margaret price, and samuel ramey with the ambrosian singers. maybe i'm biased because i grew up with it. recorded sound not very good. but no one comes close to samuel ramey's timbre and soaring crescendo. there's nothing like it. and how can anyone go wrong with margaret price? i'm not even an opera freak. i still have to hunt for a couple more of your other recommendations. many thanks!

I first heard the Brahms Requiem on Klemperer’s EMI recording as a junior in college and immediately fell in love with the work-especially the second movement. I have since sung it numerous times as a chorister and it never gets old. Klemperer is the best in my book for the reasons you mentioned and I could never understand how anyone could prefer Karajan’s mush! However, there is a modern performance that received a rave review in Classics Today you didn’t discuss that for me is almost the equal of Klemperer and so dramatic in the second and sixth movements: Andre Previn’s with the London Symphony on LSO Live. Wow, is it good!

@watutman

Жыл бұрын

The Previn / LSO recording is one I like a lot for the horns, and for its tempo. The weakness of it is that finer lighter things are drowned out sometimes.

always loved this work from the first hearing - maybe because i adore hearing a choir with an orchestra - or with a piano or any other instruments !

@djquinn4212

2 жыл бұрын

The piano 4 hands edition that Brahms himself prepared is also a joy to hear.

@robkeeleycomposer

2 жыл бұрын

@@djquinn4212 for which I added a link and which for some reason and without explanation has been taken down. If you're interested, it's on Delphian and is called An English Requiem., Joseph Fort conducts the choir of King's College London.

Blomstedt has sold me on several great works that I was formerly unconvinced by, including the Eroica (SFS) and Sibelius 2. The German Requiem I was already a fan of, having first experienced it through the Shaw recording, but if I hadn’t been already, this recording certainly would have.

I'm glad you mentioned the Ansermet recording - I thought you might over look it. It has been my favorite from day one. I remember a reviewer who wrote about it when it first came out, saying that this would be the G.R. recording for anyone who loves the Faure Requiem. The other 3 I have are Klemperer, Bloomstedt, and Walter, so I guess I'm pretty well set. I also have a nomination for worst G.R. ever: a Nonesuch release from the late 60's with Baumgartner, from Hamburg. The chorus sounded like it had 20 each sopranos, altos, and basses, and maybe 5 tenors. Thankfully, I don't think it ever made it to CD.

@ThreadBomb

2 жыл бұрын

You mean Bamberger. That was the first German Requiem I had on CD, and I can tell you it's definitely better than Karajan, whose EMI performance I picked up next. It had a simplicity and freshness that helped sell the work.

I don't love the work but I do respect it.. I have generally always turned to Klemperer but I recently heard the Giulini recording and actually found myself quite drawn in by it. I also like Ansermet which was interesting to see mentioned as he does seem to get lost in the shuffle these days but he really did some very enjoyable things. I have many of the others listed on both sides but I feel pretty content with those 3 for variety. Maybe one day I will pickup the Blomstedt if they give him a nice complete box.

To me, this is one of those works that has no definitive favourite recording... It's either too light, too heavy, a problematic soprano, an out of shape bariton, an underpowered chorus or organ, weird tempo choices... However, my favourite recording, which I only discovered recently, is Sawallisch on Orfeo from 1984, with Margaret Price and Thomas Allen... It's swift (68') but has momentum, great soloists, a fine orchestra and a very fine chorus (Bavarian O&Ch). I also started with Karajan in this Requiem as a first... But it's indeed not his best of legacies. Some nice recommendations, though

@dr.alexanderhall4916

2 жыл бұрын

I very much agree. The Sawallisch recording is often overlooked and I don't really understand why. Never a flashy conductor, he had the ability in nearly everything that he did to bring solidity and strong musical qualities to a performance without neglecting moments of high drama. It is certainly up there with the finest of them and I'm not sure why it wasn't mentioned in David's survey.

@tow1709

11 ай бұрын

I saw Sawallisch conduct the Philharmonia performance of this in the Royal Albert Hall in late 1980. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and Julia Varady were soloists. Felt very privileged to have been there.

The fugue you took issue with reminds me of that one in *dons tie* The Ninth finale, which is positively jubilant in a good performance, far from "just sitting back and fuguing about it", and it seems very clearly to me to be an LVB disciple such as Brahms' idea of how to respond to defeating death. I'm surprised you didn't mention it. Even the Wit excerpt you played of it is extremely tepid an interpretation compared to how that could be played I think.

Great review. I’m happy you mentioned Ansermet who is underrated in this piece. A pity you overlooked Kempe with Grummer. A lovely performance worth mentioning.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I know it was a long video, but you weren't paying attention. I discussed Kempe extensively.

@marccikes3429

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry David, I fast forwarded the wrong part of it.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@marccikes3429 Oh my God!

@marccikes3429

2 жыл бұрын

At least I will escape your doomsday flamethrower. 🔥

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@marccikes3429 You're not even close...

Yes, 'Klemps' is the one. I believe that in another video, you said "Nobody did gloom better than Klemperer." Agreed !

I love this piece! My choice right now is Sawallisch and Barenboim early recording with the London Philharmonic Orchestra.

My first encounter with the German Requiem was Janos Ferencsik and the Slovak Philharmonic Chorus and Orchestra. Reason for purchase was that it was cheap. It is on Hungaroton from 1983. Slow at 77 minutes. I have since graduated to the Gardiner.

Be honest Dave, it’s not the form you love in that 2nd movement excerpt you shared with us, it’s the TYMPANI!!! I think Solti/Chicago handles that passage better than pretty much anyone because of the brass, but I agree that on the whole it’s too slow. My new favorite is actually the Daniel Harding recording on Harmonia Mundi with the Swedes from 2 years ago. Singing is great, pacing is just right, and the fugues move but don’t drag and you can still hear everything you need to hear. It’s really worth hearing. If we’re pulling outside critical recommendations, it got a great review from the American Record Guide. The pacing in a live performance makes all the difference in the world, the chorus always gets tired by the end of the 6th movement and they still have to make it through another movement and it often goes flat. Karajan’a only great choral recording was the first Creation on DG, and what a great exception to the rule that is.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I agree about the Karajan Creation. The exception that proves the rule.

As far as the overall length and the proportions within the movements are concerned, the conductor Reinthaler, who prepared the Bremen performance which Brahms conducted, penciled metronome markings in the score which Brahms allowed to be published with the work for 25 years, before removing them. When those markings are followed (not slavishly), the performance comes out on the quicker side with terrific relationships between sections, like the spot you mentioned in the 6th movement. Personally, several things ruin this piece for me, tempos that are too slow, a soprano who can't handle the tessitura, and not using the organ. My own favorites at this point: Blomstedt, Klemperer, Paavo Jarvi (except for Natalie Dessay- who is unlistenable in the 5th movement), and a recent surprise for me, Daniel Harding, if you crank up the volume.

The first Karajan recording has another problem: the choir, it's 1947 Vienna after all. BUT Hotter is tremendous, he sounds like a demigod.

@bbailey7818

2 жыл бұрын

He's the reason to have it. The over-resonance of the empty Musikverein doesn't help Brahms' choral lines and textures at all.

@johnpickford4222

Жыл бұрын

Josep S: And the young Elisabeth Schwarzkopf is a FULL goddess.

That was a long video, Dave, so many thanks. And you did it so personally, so I found it rather moving. On changing your mind, I'll admit that when I was first reading your print reviews, I'd get irritated because I didn't know what you were like as a person (I suppose I still don't but as I've been listening to you now since the initial lockdown, its a good enough approximation). Every morning I look forward to when I can say "Hey Dave" when I start watching the video du jour. I didn't like the Brahms Requiem either, until I engaged with the Klemperer recording, which has sadly spoiled me for most of the others I have heard. It has a very particular quality, and I was startled when you reminded us that it really isn't that slow overall! One key is that it isn't exactly a "religious" work. Not an original observation on my part, but Brahms wasn't religious, it had something to do with the death of his Mum, so unlike a lot of religious things, its much more about how to go on living after great loss. Its a secular work, really, and constructs this amazing "spiritual" aura around post-religious life. Well, thats what I think. Thanks so much

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I think you're right in your evaluation of the piece.

@bigg2988

2 жыл бұрын

I will always take this over the cynicism of some conductors portraying it to be the religious catharsis of sorts. If you can approach it as an internally religious work and let it flow, as Blomstedt did (the last of the living greats!), that is perfectly fine. But no-no to the overwrought sentimentality and "religiousness" sought by people who should know better. A trap of numerous works that deal with religion, I think.

Always thought it was a remarkable work (the grim beauty of 's Denn alles Fleisch, es ist wie Gras or the purely lovely Ihr habt nun Traurigkeit ); however aknowledge that it can get bogged down in Germanic stodginess (I still have the scar wounds from the Karajan EMI version) or it's a snooze fest (Sinopoli and Previn x2). Enjoy the Gardiner and Klemperer EMI versions, but downloaded Kegel's only yesterday! Wow what a version and a conductor (I've been listening to some of his Hindemith with the Dresden Philharmonic and Staatskapelle which is splendid too).

I have a question regarding the Masur recording..would you know if this performance was the live version that he did after 9/11? If I recall, Britten's War Requiem was to be played but he quickly changed the program to the Brahms. If it is that performance, then I would give it a qualified pass..

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I don't see how the circumstances would matter--only the musical results.

@bbailey7818

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide That Masur was a commemoration of 9/11 but you are right, the only thing that matters is it was probably the most appalling, awful thing, certainly that I have ever personally heard, from any professional conductor and musical organization.

I like Karajan in this repertoire, but I do think you've kind of nailed what the problem is with him. Like those muy serioso video productions that he did in the 1980s, which I remember Tower in Southern California having on all the time whenever you'd walk in. Remember how he was credited as the director..?

I sang in Requiem (in English) during the mid-80’s as a member in our local music society chorale during the mid-80’s. I am always been on the lookout for a better recorded version. Yes, the Karajan is not engaging and not helped by the recording’s anemic bass. Agreed, the Klemperer version is magisterial and a benchmark. However, the sonics show their age in the big moments. The version that I have kept returning to over the last 36 years is the Shaw/Atlanta. The interpretation and the sonics are wonderful, and the performance flows and blossoms effortlessly, particularly during the grander bits. Of course, a lot of effort went into making it appear to be effortless. Another performance not mentioned that I find intriguing is the live Levine/BSO/Tanglewood SACD on their BSO Classics label. Not quite the equal of the Shaw, the recording’s rendering of the performance in Symphony Hall is beguiling. YMMV.

I saw it once in the local church just before Christmas. Bach Choir with two people on the piano. Was magical. Then we came out of the church snow was falling. Even more magical.

STACHEL, it is called Stachel in German, not Stucker or something, you listened to 30 recordings of the thing and can't remember the word? ... Anyway about the fugues, if god saves you from the stachel of death you just have to thank him in a long fugue!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Sheesh. Do you really think I need you to tell me that?

@wolfgangfalge9755

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide of course not!

Your talk on this topic was, as usual, brilliant. I for one have always loved the German Requiem, but I can understand how hearing a poor performance can ruin a work for someone. As a teenager, I thought the Brahms First Piano Concerto was doggerel, but that was because I learned it from listening to the dreadful Rubinstein/Leinsdorf rendition. But let me ask: as you went through your list of great Requiems, did you neglect to mention Previn's recording with the LSO from 2000, which I think is among the very best?

Ha! I like the fugue (lol)- and Szell- just heard Szell - really liked it 😊

@watutman

2 ай бұрын

Brahms' friends recommended he eliminate the fugue from the 2nd movement, and I'm glad he kept it It's the favorite part of many people.

Hello Dave, This is one of your most fascinating and helpful talks. I have been a Brahms devotee since my teens and yet I too have struggled with this work and can only truly relish it with recordings that exemplify the qualities you referred to. It really is primarily a work of tender, and sometimes luminous consolation. The lugubrious will not do. So many of your top picks are ones that I also love, and I agree that they really fit the bill. Blomstedt, Abbado, Kegel, Bernius, and Giulini are all in my top tier. I saw this video when it first was posted but I was reminded of it recently when I discovered a recording that I think truly belongs in the same category of what is just right for this work: It is about 70 minutes, has balanced 1st and 7th movements, has a great choir, orchestra, and soloists-the baritone has a slightly wider vibrato than is ideal, but it doesn’t get too much in the way-and the approach is one of radiant comfort, yet the fugues are exciting and well articulated, and there’s ample drama in 2 and 6. It is Michel Corboz and the Denmarks Radiokoret and symphony. I’ve heard many recordings of this work, but this one has me riveted. It has that long paragraph focus you were referring to in the Ansermet. He has some excellent recordings that I think were out of print for a while when Erato disappeared but now they (or at least some of them) are coming back. This one can be found on a Requiem collection released just last year on Erato along with Verdi, Mozart, Faure, and Durufle. He has also recorded some great Mendelssohn and Bach choral works, including a great St. Matthew Passion and Elijah. Anyway, it seems as if he’s been under the radar but maybe now he will have sure further interest. Knowing you from your many videos and especially this talk, I would say that I’m about 95% certain that you would put this recording into your top tier, if you don’t already know it (I know that you can’t include everything in one video). But if I’m wrong, I’m wrong-though I doubt it.

Eighty-four minutes? YIKES! The chorus generally stands the whole time. In some performances the chorus will sit during the soprano solo. I've done this back to back one year, with piano, four hands and a month later with orchestra. The optimal length is about 65-70 minute's. That said I find that the Brahms Requiem follows the psychological stages of grief and it's one of my favorites.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

That's what I said!

@Conmezzo

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide 🤗

A fascinating video. Though I never reacted as strongly you did, I always admired parts of the Requiem, but I always felt somewhat unfulfilled at the end of even a good performance. I have always preferred his marvellous shorter pieces for chorus and orchestra, the Alto Rhapsody, Schicksalslied, Gesang des Parzen and Nänie. To anyone who can't face 60/75 minutes of the Requiem, Nänie (Lament) is heartbreakingly beautiful, with some of the most beautiful writing for orchestral woodwind ever and the passage illustrating Thetis appearing to mourn her son Achilles surpasses anything in the Requiem, IMO. It's a shame that modern concert programming makes live performances rare.

@wilhelmvandervyver642

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree with you more about Nänie, it may just be one of the most heartachingly beautiful pieces of music ever written. Blomstedt's recording with the SFSO is something quite special.

And how could you forget George Bernard Shaw's comment? (I quote from memory). "I love having Brahms' "Requiem' on the program. It gives me time to sneak into a corner of the concert hall giving me time to read all the day's papers." Unlike you, Mr. Hurwitz, he never lost his animosity. Bless you, sir for you eclecticism and delightful sagacity.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

That's because he was a Wagnerite. It crippled his critical faculties forever. Shaw was, actually, a terrible critic, but a literary genius, so what the heck?

Gardener on Phillips has become my favourite and Abbado is my runner up.

Absolutely love this piece as I did on the first hearing which was an english version sung by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir under Ormandy. The Klemperer is now my fav go to which I play frequently. The second movement is really moving. But of course there are people who love Bach who is someone I find terminally boring, ditto Haydn. So in the end there is music to appeal to everyone.

@donaldjones5386

2 жыл бұрын

Have you tried the Bach "Magnificat"? Give Leonard Bernstein's version a go.

For years I have been ashamed to confess publicly (and even at times, privately) that the Brahms Requiem just didn’t really do it for me. I think the term ‘heavy handed’ is adequate to describe what I was feeling about it. At the same time (as you also noted), I could hear that it is a masterpiece and that there are indeed glorious moments. But the work as a whole, just feels……..well, heavy handed. These days I feel a little more generous towards it, but I still can’t say it’s one of my favorite works. I was happy to hear a musician say that he didn’t care for it, either. Once upon a time, that is.

@eddihaskell

Жыл бұрын

I think it is a bore. It prods along. I've done my best to appreciate it -- but it is not Mozart's Requiem, is it?

@compassionplease7380

Жыл бұрын

@@eddihaskell No, it most assuredly is not. 😆

@watutman

11 ай бұрын

If it is heavy handed that is the performers' fault. For some reason many people do that to all Brahms' works. This video did not even mention the best performance of Ein deutsches Requiem, which is on KZread, the Frankfurt performance.

@compassionplease7380

11 ай бұрын

@@watutman Thank you, I’ll give that performance a listen.

How interesting and exciting. Long long time ago as a beginner and new listener, I started to listen to classical music with enthusiasm for several years. But I had not heard the German Requiem. Gradually, my ear became more professional and due to the conditions of my country (Iran), I did not have much access to all kinds of works and performances. But gradually I had collected a large collection of Classical music tapes. But still I had not heard the German Requiem! The CD was invented, but it had very, very little variety. On a trip abroad, I went to a CD store. In those days, many performances has not yet been converted to CD. But still there were many CDs that attracted my desire to buy. German Requiem was there. Performed by James Levine with Kathleen Battle. I bought it along with 118 other CDs. A suitcase full of CDs only. Nothing else! At that time, I was in love with Brahms. But I had not heard the German Requiem yet! On my return I immediately listened to the German Requiem. Oh, what a disaster! Boring, sleepy, without excitement and without climax! I was asking myself what happened? As a Brahmsian(!) why can't I connect with this work at all? I listened again but nothing changed. This CD became one of my banished CDs in the corner of my archive. In every reliable Classical music source, this work was mentioned as an important and significant work. But why was I so alien to it? Later, in many of great singers collections, I saw that they included their performances of the German Requiem in their collection. Then I heard it again but naturally the solo part only. Beautiful but that didn't make me go back to the whole work. Last year I heard the whole work on the radio. I really liked it this time. As a Brahms lover, I was a little ashamed of myself for not liking the German Requiem and now I felt a little relief and comfortable! Some time ago, I happened to come across a performance that intrigued me. Otto Klemperer/Schwarzkopf/Fischer-Dieskau. Wow, how great is this work! And today I come to dear Dave Hurwitz page to see what he thinks. Oh my god! What a shared experience. Every word was familiar to me. It was as if someone was describing my feeling and experience with a very sweet and precise language! And what was the Dave Hurwitz's final choice? Otto Klemperer? Oh my god. It's incredible. This episode has a different meaning to me. Absolutely perfect. You are great!

@DavesClassicalGuide

8 ай бұрын

Thank you!

oh god i just performed this. i LOVED movement vi for one moment: the moment where we sing “hölle wo ist dein sieg”. it’s a stunning tonal shift. that being said, the fugue that comes after is almost too much of a tonal shift in my opinion. it’s such a stunning half cadence proceeded by a fugue that i, quite frankly, felt should have been classified as a separate movement, or just left out entirely. the movement is ridiculously long. i still love it though

What do you think of the various recordings of the German Requiem which use Brahms' own 2-pianos accompaniment? In my view the loss of orchestral colors can only partly be compensated by the added emphasis on the vocal lines. Though the version by Christoph Spering on Opus 111 sounds pretty convincing to me. And it's fascinating to hear Brahms' tradmark "heavy" piano scoring (doubled, even) being applied to one of his own choral masterpieces.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I'd sooner die.

@cpeters6494

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide That's a strong statement! But yeah, I can see your point. Not long ago I saw a video on TV of a Belgian choir which performed the German Requiem in the 2-piano version. It sounded so unrelentingly mechanical that I thought I was listening to Stravinsky's Les Noces.

@watutman

4 ай бұрын

Like getting beaten up by two smart people?

"I didn't feel bad about the fact that I disliked the Brahms Requiem, but I feel much better about the fact that I no longer do." That is so accurate! I have often felt bad about having trouble loving some cannonical works as much as you're "supposed to", but when it finally "clicks", that's a wonderful feeling

Hi Dave---Like you I just 'did not get' the Brahms requiem for many years until I listened to the Giulini recording (thanks for mentioning it!). Now I have about eight---(no Karajan--could never stand him) including the Leinsdorf and the Kegel but the Klemperer is as they say hors concours.

I hope you'll make a video about Beethoven's Missa Solemnis.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

So do I.

Karajan turns into "carrion" in the captions!

I'm absolutely tickled you named the fugues as your big stumbling block with the work! Some years back I joined a chorus for a festival performance, and adding to my general anxiety about learning the text and music (and struggling with the high tessitura of the second tenor part) was the presence of so many fugues. I was so irritated with Brahms for insisting on writing fugues, I actually felt he had no right to do so, being a Romantic composer! But I've calmed down since then.

@watutman

4 ай бұрын

I read that Brahms' friends advised him to remove the fugue that is at the end of the 3rd movement. He often did what his friends said, but not this time. That fugue is the favorite part of the requiem for quite a few people.

Any thoughts about a Haitink very SLOW recording that drew rave reviews?

I not only had problems with this piece, but with most of Brahms, since my teens. I liked the Sturm und Drang stuff like the First Piano Concerto and the Double Concerto, but the rest of it left me cold. When I heard Brahms symphonies in concert (excepting the Third), I used to nap (literally) at the second movement and wake up for the finale. Of his choral music, I liked only the motets, which I thought fabulous. As for the Requiem, I too agreed with Shaw. I simply couldn't see in it what others did. Fortunately, I did "keep listening." How could I help it, with Brahms a concert staple? My turnaround on Brahms in general came from a choral piece, the "Geistliche Gesang" (on a recording of Brahms motets), which had always struck me as a Mendelssohnian Song Without Words. For some reason, I realized it was a double canon at the ninth. I don't know why this turned me around, but it did. As for the Requiem, I too got tired of all the fugues ("Can't he think of any other way of ending a movement?"). But, as with Dave, it took a less-than-dreary performance to turn me around. Klemperer and (surprisingly) Gardiner. I look forward to listening to Dave's other picks.

Uncle Dave, Love your shows. How is this for a trifecta of loserhood? 1. I fell in love with the Karajan version that drove you in to exile. 2. After you trashed it I pulled out my 2 LP beautifully boxed set(You gotta love vinyl just for the packaging). Lo and behold, inside it, I had saved a copy of the program for a 1987 performance by The Cleveland Orchestra led by Kurt Masur, your candidate for worst of the worst interpretations. 3. I also have the Bruno Walter on vinyl. In 1987 I took my 13 year old son(now48) with me and it made such an impression on him that , a month ago, he took his 13 year-old son to ear the Champaign Urbana IL Symphony do it. The moral of this story seems to be; musically speaking, maybe it pays to have more of a tin ear than yours? Your can fall in love with dogs that have transcendent souls. Just received the Klemperer and Bloomstedt, two that you recommended. Maestro Bloomstedt is a favorite in Cleveland. He seems to be able to get TCO to sound even better than their usual fantastic. Hope he recovers quickly from his recent accident. LOve hearing your insights. Thak you

The first German Requiem I heard was an obscure old record conducted by Carl Bamberger. I liked it well enough but then grabbed the Karajan EMI CD when I saw it because I thought it would be a step up. Woof! It was not that. I can well understand people being turned off this work by that recording.

Sincerity is all. Always be sincere! Whether you mean it or not! (Apologies Flanders and Swann).