Спасибо за рекомендации! Отметил для себя ещё несколько вариантов исполнения, таких как Previn и Jarvi. Очень рад, что познакомился с этим удивительным исполнением Abbado, я даже не верил в это, но запись оказалась феноменальной и по исполнению, и по качеству звука

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Я очень рад, что вы согласны! Спасибо за ваши Коментарии.

Another terrific overview, thank you! I grew up on the Schippers recording, and it's still one of the best I've heard. What a loss to the music world was his premature death!

@presbyterosBassI

2 жыл бұрын

I grew up on the Schippers as well. Classical LPs were hard to come by in my small town, but the local department store had a lot of Columbia Odyssey discs.

A Järvi Prokofiev box set would be very desirable, it's ashame Chandos do not do many box sets.

Sony should release a complete Columbia Mitropoulos box. In addition to being a great conductor, during his career he did a lot to promote contemporary composers and works. He was a gentle soul and a wonderful human being. His name deserves to be more known.

I wait at 7pm in Australia for your very informative reviews! The Battle on the Ice is OVERPLAY! Over and Over and Over and Over and Over etc etc etc

I often find that my first recordings of certain works have left long lasting impressions that are not easily erased by later recordings. In this case, it is the Svetlanov on Le Chant du Monde which I obtained over 30 years ago. After your review, I relistened to excerpts from it along with the Jarvi and Ancerl versions. I still find that the Svetlanov, although poorly recorded, is by far the most gripping and viscerally exciting. While not understanding a word of Russian, I love the timber of the Russian choir (especially the basses) and the soprano which lends a particularly ‘authentic’ flair.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

That's your choice. I think it sound lousy and misses to many details that I see in the score and hear in other versions, which are no less exciting.

@jeffbertucen1839

2 жыл бұрын

Jacques I totally agree with you, and the Svetlanov version was the first recording I heard of the work back in 1985. No other version captures the epic visceral chaos of Battle On the Ice, the apocalyptic horror of Knights in Pskov and the finale (although I agree with Dave that the sound engineering is often poor, and downright horrible at the conclusion of the finale). A totally convincing electrifying recording with which few match up

@1e9n4i7gma

2 жыл бұрын

I use to have the Le Chant du Monde recording which i found the ending was badly faded at the end which I think was due to poor technology.I have the same performance issued on Melodiya in 2011 which to me has been mastered far better than the Le Chant du Monde.Definitely worth a try.

I once attended a screening of the film at the Berlin Konzerthaus with German subtitles and live music. When Alexander says "we must defeat the savage Teutonic horde" or some such, titters and guffaws filled the auditorium.

I was in the Dallas Symphony Chorus on the Mata recording (also did the Mahler 2nd, Porgy and Bess and Tchaikovsky cds with Litton). It was the second Dorian recording. They had the chorus standing on sheets of plywood that had been placed on top of the hall floor over the seats (padded and protected) facing the orchestra rather than behind the orchestra in the choral terrace, which was our normal spot. We were really disappointed at how sort of diffuse and and un focused the chorus sounded. They even told us to sing softer as they had trouble getting the balances right. The mezzo they used to record the piece was Bulgarian. She was different than the woman (an American) used in the live performances the week before. The Bulgarian mezzo came back and sang at Mata's Memorial concert. It was very moving. On the whole, I agree: the recording is lackluster.

Abbado (fortunately the version Apple Music provided to me) nails the last minute of the battle which is a gorgeous transition into the lament. This moment is smothered by the strings in the LSO Previn but it is more clearly articulated in the LA recording. Look forward to listening to the Jarvi next.

So glad you did Nevsky. My favorite work that Prokofiev ever wrote. Agreed with you on the top two recordings. I like some spots in Valery Gergiev’s version, but there are a few mistakes here and there.

Despite its shortcomings, the Chailly is worth hearing at least once, as loud as possible. It's on my pile of nerd CDs under "sul ponticello and bass drum". A big thank-you for holding up the picture of the Jarvi disc! I didn't know about this version, only the two previous ones that are out of print. Helps a lot when searching on sites that don't always list classical recordings correctly. :-)

Prokofiev conducted the world premiere of his cantata in 1939. I had assumed that the Soviet Ministry of Culture would have been eager to record this patriotic work during the War, but the first Soviet recording had to wait until 1947, conducted by Samuil Samosud. In the meantime, Ormandy/Philadelphia had the honor of making the first recording of Alexander Nevsky (in English) on May 21, 1945 (the Battle on the Ice has great impact in mono). Ormandy recorded more Prokofiev premieres between 1945 and 1953, the year Prokofiev (and Stalin) died. Symphony 6 was premiered by Mravinsky in 1948, but was denounced for formalism by Zhdanov, so the first recording went by default to Ormandy/Philadelphia in 1950. Symphony 7 was premiered in 1952 by Samosud, who made the first recording in 1953. Ormandy made the second recording that same year, BUT Ormandy was the first recording to use Prokofiev’s newly revised finale. All this Prokofiev is in the big Ormandy mono box from Sony.

Thanks, David. Great presentation. The Reiner, with the Khachaturian, is indeed, a fine CD. I actually bought mine originally for the Khachaturian!

Thanks Dave. There was also a Turnabout release from the 1970's with the "Pro Musica Symphony Orchestra and Chorus conducted by G. Alexandrov" that had a vital Russian sounding chorus and rough but enthusiastic orchestral playing complete with paint peeling trumpets. It was coupled with a Love for Three Oranges Suite by Froment. I don't think it ever made it to CD.

I adore that Abbado recording. As a tuba player, other tuba players say "oh you must hear Chicago with Reiner, gotta listen to Jake (Arnold Jacobs) play in Battle on the Ice." Yeah, it's good and all, but John Fletcher on tuba in that LSO recording better placed and it's just a better overall recording. If I want to hear orchestral tuba sound, this is always in the first group of listening.

Yes! Love it!

Great talk, I liked especially the hint that the LSO has the 'real' Hollywood sound. Also agreed about Abbado and Jarvi which are my favourite versions too. However I recently discovered on Primephonic a live version from the London Philharmonic label conducted by Masur - surprisingly swift and exciting, with engaged contribution from the LPO Choir, perhaps worth considering as a live addition to the studio references ... my humble opinion.

Happy Birthday!

Nice to hear some praise for Shippers especially his Nevsky. Have you heard the recording of the Prokofiev 5th that he did for EMI with the Philharmonia ? Back in the day (when I was 16. now 78 !) that was my first introduction to the piece along with Ormandy.

Difficult to get Ancerl’s version. Hope box set with most recordings of Karel Ancerl will be published soon in near future.

Wonderful how simple life can be when it's done right

I have the Schippers performance that was reissued about 15 years ago paired with his Pictures at an Exhibition. Both are excellent.

There was on VHS a great release of the remastered film along with the stereo score Dave mentioned. A wonderful release not yet on DVD.

Speaking of "Lieutenant Kije," wouldn't it be nice to have the full film soundtrack? I have a feeling there's a lot more music than what's in that all-too-familiar suite.

Yes! A Schippers box, please! Thanks Dave.. .

Thank you Mr. Hurwitz for this post, I agree with your choices, especially the reference: Abbado and the LSO. From then on, Abbado began his long decadence. I would like to ask you a question that doesn't have much in common with this post. As I share your admiration for maestro Muti, I'd like to ask you if you have any hint of why there are so few releases of performances with the CSO It's really a shame, because he has done Beethoven, Schubert and Bruckner cycles over the last decade, plus, of course, lots of other works from Haydn to Ravel! And, meanwhile, we are flooded with Beethoven,Bruckner, etc cycles by still immature conductors...

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Money.

I believe there is much subjective criteria here. I heard on KZread the Abbado performance and I was not overjoyed. The sound is bright hard in typical DGG late sound completely overmiked and great for people who don't own really natural sounding playback equipment. Sorry but I disagree with Dave here. I pulled the Slatkin performance on the Athena label re-issue on Analog LP pressing and day and night. All of a sudden there is music here. Beautiful sound, tremendous live sounding wallop bass and transients. The Slatkin is an excellent performance highly underrated. Abbado is just an animal in its brutality always literal but you can have music for music's sake and be aggressive too. Slatkin's strings are gorgeous. Obraztsova has the prevalent tiresome Russian vibrato which puts me off completely not so the seductive sounds of Claudine Carlson.. Absolutely beautiful her singing is.

I love it when your "However" choice happens to be my favorite recording, too. :) BTW, anyone else think DG should follow up the Abbado/LSO box with a COMPLETE Abbado/CSO box?

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds good to me. It would be much smaller than the others, but there would be some choice stuff in it, including his first (and often best) pass at the Mahler symphonies.

The Schippers Nevsky is new to me (I'll seek it out) and yes we do need a retrospect of this fine artist.

Like you said, Yuri Temirkanov's and his Russian performers are quite good, but I find myself reaching for that over the cantata when I listen to it. I have read criticisms of repetition, but it really doesn't bother me one whit since each of Prokofiev's tunes are wonderful and their return is most welcome for me.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Well then, that's your preference and you're welcome to it.

@donnybrooke6292

2 жыл бұрын

The cantata does encapsulate the essence of the film score into a symphonic concert structure nicely. I doubt I would want to hear the film score on stage, so the cantata is never a loss for me; far from it. Thanks for the video!

Dave, you made a passing reference to an Ormandy, RCA recording that you say was sung in English. I have on vinyl a 1975 RCA recording with Ormandy that is sung in Russian. The mezzo is Betty Allen and the choir is The Mendelssohn Club of Philadelphia directed by Robert Page. The Battle on the Ice has an electrifying sound. As I said, it's vinyl which I must have purchased in the early 80's and I've always kept my eye open for a CD transfer that might have improved the sonics even more. So is this a recording you're unaware of or is your memory failing when you say Ormandy's recording is in English? I do have the Abbado on CD and yes, it's excellent

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

My memory is failing.

@nealkurz6503

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide I have that later Ormandy Nevsky on the Japanese CD reissue which is coupled with the RCA version of Rachmaninoff's The Bells....I swore that one WAS in Russian, but it's not! I don't find the sound too bad on it, but as far as being remastered, there's a fancy schmantzy 2018 SACD remaster of it from Dutton's Epoch label. Perhaps that is an improvement?

@mistywalters

2 жыл бұрын

@@nealkurz6503 Dutton sacds are amazing. Go for it

@robertbubeck9194

2 жыл бұрын

The Ormandy/PO/Mendelsohn Club RCA recording (in Russian) has been remastered by Dutton and is available as a hybrid SACD (2 and 4 channel). The resulting sonics are 'fleshed out', very good with bass content galore and considerable clarity of the the chorus. I am guessing that Dave's problem might be with the balances in "Alexander's Entry into Pskov" (Dave?). Personally, the percussion in the right channel answering the left is kind of fun and, with the fleshed out sonics, not objectionable (listening in 2 channel stereo). Sonics aside, I find the performance exciting (a real hoot) with excellent pacing. Ormandy and Prokofiev! YMMV.

@johnfowler7660

2 жыл бұрын

Ormandy's Columbia mono Nevsky (1945) - the first ever recording - is sung in English. Philadelphia beat the Soviets by two years - Samosud was the first Russian-language recording (1947). The RCA stereo (1975 - originally 4-Channel) is sung in Russian. Ormandy always did The Bells by Rachmaninov in English (Columbia mono and RCA stereo/ 4-channel).

David, what do you think of the Dimitry Yablonsky recording on Naxos, I wonder? Definately the most unusual Nevsky, as it uses some extreme tempos compared to many other recordings. A bit of a guilty pleasure just for being different.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

www.classicstoday.com/review/review-9298/?search=1

Abbado Yes, Ihave it since the 70's and Samosud (old , so so sound, buy I like it). The film: Eisenstein tremendous. If Eisenstein had live in our time, I can't imagine what he would have done ...

For me, a necessary supplement is Zara Dolukhanova's singing of the Lament. No wobbles on her! It's on a disc of Prokofiev and Stravinsky on the defunct Russian Disc label -- long out of print but findable.

Analogue Productions reissued the Reiner on SACD in 2/3 channel. It's a lot of fun but the balances are completely wrong in 3 channel and I've stuck to 2-channel after hearing it once - it's just an unmixed master tape. The Dutton reissue of Ormandy was mentioned below - it's a sonic improvement even if you don't touch the quad also included. The bonus on that is the Ormandy Lt. Kije, where they went back to the original multitracks and it sounds fantastic.

This video is one day late! Just bought the Temirkanov yesterday at a used CD shop

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

It's a very good performance, but of the complete score, not the Cantata. Best to think of them as different works. I own both too.

@nealkurz6503

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide IMHO, the best way have the Temirkanov is on the video release (I have it on LaserDisc!) where they somehow melded his recording to the complete film. It's done very convincingly and sounds marvelous. I guess there are rights issues with issuing this now, and of course, the SD video would need updating, but it's a shame this has gone by the wayside. It's an interesting side note that some issues of the film purporting to be the "original" soundtrack have some audio overlays that the Russians added at some point to bolster the very weak audio on the original. These were rather crudely done, so that you can still hear bits and pieces of the original that don't quite sync with the redo. Criterion's DVD is actually one of these versions.

I first heard this piece in Svetlanov's exciting recording, but the sound is shrill. Järvi sounds very muddy. I go for Abbado's disc more than others.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Järvi does not sound muddy at all.

@poturbg8698

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide I hear it differently. The last few minutes, e.g., are an echo-laden roar. I have a different cover on my CD; perhaps Chandos remastered it.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@poturbg8698 Or your hearing is different. It doesn't matter. It is what it is for each individual.

Interesting talk - you should so do one on Prokofiev's music for Ivan the Terrible (some wonderful stuff there, maybe not on same level as Nevsky, but still good; the Conquest of Kazan for example). Skatkin did a good version in St Louis (with a more than serviceable Nevsky) and so did Jarvi with the Philharmonia which I like very much. Oh and not forgetting Muti!

@jerrygennaro7587

2 жыл бұрын

Second that request for Prokofiev's music for Ivan the Terrible. Though I can tally 16 CD recordings, that could be reduced to only 7 or so if one ignores the ones with narration in Russian, English, or Spanish. Stasevich (Chant du Monde, though incomplete relative to the LP version), Slatkin (Vox, shorn of the narration that was on the LP issue), Jarvi (Chandos), Gergiev (Philips), Sokhiev (Sony), Fedoseyev (Nimbus), Strobel (Capriccio), and Polyansky (Chandos - though I don't have this one and can't be sure that it omits narration). There's lots of good music here, especially that Kazan episode already mentioned.

Hello Dave! I would like to ask you which labels Sony owns the right to issue. Is it CBS ,RCA? If I was President for Sony I would invite you to my office and ask you what to release, and then give it to you for free!! Best wishes Fred.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

It's both, and they have released boxes mixing both, but usually they keep the two labels separate (as, for example, the recent Juilliard Quartet boxes).

What sort of army marches with cymbals on their feet? You could have heard them coming from 20 miles away. No wonder they lost that battle! What is "Peregrinus expectavi pedes meos in cymbalis" supposed to mean? It sounds silly. Does it have historic, literary, or religious significance? Or is it just Latin mumbo-jumbo?

@DavesClassicalGuide

Жыл бұрын

Sounds great to me, and what it means is that foreigners would be branded as such, and presumably treated accordingly--perfectly reasonable.

My first Nevsky, which I still have, is Slatkin and the St. Louis Symphony, on Vox. It still packs a punch.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it does.

@johnwright7557

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardkavesh8299 The Nevsky was also available in a cheap Vox Box with Ivan the Terrible and Lt. Kije Suite. All terrific performances!

@BrianMSmith-ol2nd

2 жыл бұрын

There is an excellent mch SACD of the Slatkin - alas, no longer available. They also recorded Ivan in great mch. The sound is better than the Reiner.

If you ever review the best Scythian Suite, I nominate the Bolivian Youth Orchestra under Abbado. Holy Jesus.

Reiner's recording is great musically, but we don't all share your ability to ignore the awkwardness of the lyrics in English. The "Song About Alexander Nevsky" sounds like dialog for minor characters in a Conan the Barbarian movie. Maybe this sounds just as lame in the original Russian, but if you don't speak Russian it's not a problem. To enjoy the Reiner recording, you have to forget that you speak English!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I know not everyone shares my ability to ignore the English. As I said, I don't care. The words are stupid in any language and to say the Russian is better because you don't understand it is, well, um, you know...

@tomross5347

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide ..."honest"?

@jerrygennaro7587

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. These Soviet-era works remain a problem for me in English translation. Once heard (and understood) they can't be unheard. Always had a soft spot for Prokofiev's Zdravitsa (Salute) for the music. Gleeson's recording on IMP/Carlton in Russian at least uses a revised text that eliminates the Stalinist references.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@tomross5347 Yes, of course.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@tomross5347 Yes, of course.

I am wondering why Ormandy was top in Lieutenant KIje, and not in Alexander Nevsky" Same orchestra , same composer....so...for me Ormandy is on top too,here.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I explained. It's a terrific performance, but the sonics need fixing.

@ralphbruce1174

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide Sonics is not my priority, that is why Samosud 's Alexander Nevsky is one of my favorite, I guess.

It has nothing to do with Alexander Nevsky, but as for Prokofiev, I would be interested to know whether there is an (unabridged) recording of the original music, which later became the famous Scythian Suite.

Neeme Jarvi might be the best Prokofievan of all time and his Nevsky on Chandos is a real ball buster. The October 20th Cantata, Romeo and Juliet, etc. are all similarly thrilling. I can’t really argue with your choice of Abbado, of course. Available in Hi Res streaming on Qobuz, as is Ormandy and many other worthies. Now of course I want to run out and try the repetitive Temirkanov full film score film score film score film score. I'll also add an excellent sleeper to the mix: for a dynamic, relatively recent live recording, Thierry Fischer with Utah is well worth considering, paired with Lt. Kije on SACD.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, no. The Fischer is a bore. I found it disappointing.

@AlexMadorsky

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide we’ll have to disagree on this one, I found it quite exciting. I have heard a terrible Nevsky or two, but the maestros (fortunately?) escape me.

@tommynielsen7163

2 жыл бұрын

Czech Phil chorus, you’ve mentioned that before. Time to mention chorus master Josef Veselka who gets expressiveness out of the choir, something I can’t think of anybody else was able to achieve, not to that degree anyway.

Blockbusterosity???!!!!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

You spelled it wrong: it's "blockbusterousity." You can also use "blockbusterousness."

@fredcasden

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavesClassicalGuide I assumed that 'blockbusterousity' was the British spelling; I stand corrected.

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

@@fredcasden Actually it derives from the French. I never use British spellings.

I found the Abbado disc early on and never found better. The only oddity is he extends the final notes of a couple of the movements - curious but forgivable. The Gergiev Nevsky is another failure from that conductor, terribly bland but at least not as obnoxious as the live 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution cantata you can find on youtube. (I favor Titov in that work.) Gergiev's Ivan was excellent, though. He actually took time and care for once!

@DavesClassicalGuide

2 жыл бұрын

I love that Cantata--such a noisy piece of junk. It's great fun.

@joseperla9806

2 жыл бұрын

In the Abaddo performance, I really don't like those extended final notes either. Or should I say, I reeeeeeeally doooon't like them.

@silviofernandez585

Жыл бұрын

@@joseperla9806 I believe there is much subjective criteria here. I heard on KZread the Abbado performance and I was not overjoyed. The sound is bright hard in typical DGG late sound completely overmiked and great for people who don't own really natural sounding playback equipment. Sorry but I disagree with Dave here. I pulled the Slatkin performance on the Athena label re-issue on Analog LP pressing and day and night. All of a sudden there is music here. Beautiful sound, tremendous live sounding wallop bass and transients. The Slatkin is an excellent performance highly underrated. Abbado is just animal in its brutality but you can have music for music's sake and be aggressive too.