I've talked about this whole ep with some friends before, and we came up with the headcanon that Q is just terrified of these salamander babies. when he said that he was afraid of what humans would evolve into, he was talking about them.

@dixiefish0173

4 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣

@thegreenmanofnorwich

4 жыл бұрын

I did wonder what the point of the salamanders was. I wondered if they were supposed to have massive mental powers. Not that anything like that was ever mentioned. I also thought it was weird that they'd just leave the hyper evolved babies in an otherwise totally uninterfered with ecosystem.

@gabrielhawkins-connolly143

2 жыл бұрын

IN dungeons and dragons, a similar creature is called the Aboleth, a salamander thing with MASSIVE psychic powers and a god complex that they... kinda deserve. They are more powerful than a meteor-swarming level 20 wizard, each, and I think that was the kind of... concept idea this had. Something like creatures like the Traveller in TNG, as we see wesley had the capability even at his somewhat-greater-than-human potential, and his ability to control space and time... And I can see that a race of beings like Star Trek Aboleths with craaaaaazy psychic powers that bend the laws of reality would be superior. Like, literally, a thing that the DND counterparts can do is forget about distance, and just freaking open a planar gate to a WHOLE NEW UNIVERSE, or teleport across a galaxy with ease instantly. Nevermind being nigh-invincible from psychic shields and the ability to mess with the passage of time. I think that's where they tried and failed to go. Also anyone notice the axolotal fins on these things?

@Fuchsfeuer

2 жыл бұрын

but the most important question is what happened to the offspring? Will the descendants eventually conquer and destroy everything and everyone?^^ would be the chance to explain why Q dies! It was the salamanders!!!

@d36williams

2 жыл бұрын

lol

The most unrealistic thing about this episode is that they didn’t evolve into crabs.

@Cheezitnator

Жыл бұрын

Ah yes, the true ultimate life form: ocean spiders.

@cbhlde

Жыл бұрын

@@Cheezitnator At the end we will all become the evil shoulder spider, that tries to keep Janeway in check by suggestion to eat Harry Kim. ;)

@MinscFromBaldursGate92

11 ай бұрын

@cbhlde For the last time, I am not eating Harry! Not while he is still of use for me.

@cbhlde

11 ай бұрын

A little nibble can't hurt?! :)@@MinscFromBaldursGate92

@monso0n805

9 ай бұрын

Maybe the next step after crabs are salamanders..

Tom Paris is the most able person in Star Fleet. Put him and Chief O'Brian on a shuttle craft and they would have made it home from the Delta Quadrant in 10 minutes

@thomaskirkness-little5809

6 жыл бұрын

Put him and Miles on an asteroid and they would have built a ship, returned home and defeated the Jem'hadar and Borg in one episode.

@zwordsman

6 жыл бұрын

add in Harry and they wouldn't have the weird small oversights.. Miles and Tom are damn great at their stuff. buutt they both are horribly bad at the smallest details and that's caused their failures in various times. Harry is not stand out amazing. but the guy is amazing at being solid and dotting all the proper things. The three of them could probably have fixed and upgraded the Keeper's slingshot

@DarthAzabrush

6 жыл бұрын

Put Rom or Nog on the ship and suddenly their tech level jumps to the point that they can take the USS Relativity in a straight fight.

@poppers7317

5 жыл бұрын

Add Deanna Troy to the mix and the ship gets crashed in no time.

@julianm3912

5 жыл бұрын

Yea but one of them might be pregnant..LOL

The "Wake up Lieutenant!" Joke was the only piece of good writing in this episode, and it got me again all these years later. He's not passed out, just near exhaustion, no hypo, no gentle shake of the arm. Just a shout that the captain and audience weren't expecting.

Janeway turned me into a newt! A newt? I got better.

@CRAZYHORSE19682003

4 жыл бұрын

@J Mireles She looks like one!

@brianb8060

3 жыл бұрын

Burn her anyway!

Janeway's thousand-yard stare as she tries to forget she had salamander babies is hilarious...

Johnny Cash achieved Warp 10, that's how he'd been everywhere, man.

@alanpennie8013

4 жыл бұрын

"I fly a starship, across the universe divide."

@arthas640

4 жыл бұрын

@@alanpennie8013 I would die to see a star trek episode with Johnny Cash as an intergalactic Highwayman

@alanpennie8013

4 жыл бұрын

@@arthas640 That would be great.

@GFSan

4 жыл бұрын

@@arthas640 at least we got to see him play a space coyote

@prophetic0311

4 жыл бұрын

Your joke is bad and you should feel bad.

How is the away team so sure they can just leave the salamander kids behind? They have no reason to assume that's OK. It turns out fine for them, but what if it hadn't? Suppose Janeway and Paris became human again and they're "Where are our kids? ...YOU JUST LEFT OUR CHILDREN THERE?! ...You assumed WHAT? Why? They're our BABIES!!!"

@jayk1203

6 жыл бұрын

100% agree

@deraltetrekkie6088

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, obviously they didn't think that. And to be perfectly frank: It's for the better. Not because no one should remember the episode, but because a little thing called "consequences" in a very "one episode"-medium. I mean, something like "continuity" is fine with me, however if you take the idea of "things having consequences" over on Voyager to the logical conclusion... well, it would mean, that when Voyager returns, chances would be that all of the non-main-characters would have to face the music for their actions as the Maquis. Meaning the Cardassians might wanna see them on trial for basically being war criminals, Seven might end up in a nice little lab, where they would conduct experiments on her, since she's a Borg and they are the most feared creatures in the galaxy. So yeah, unless you film the "Destiny"-three-Parter written by David Mack, which more or less exterminates the Borg, that would've gone in a direction, at least, I would have hated. Basically, it would've turned into an early new BSG and albeit I like that show, too, I have to say, I loved Janeways approach to Seven, the more "I don't know if she betrays us, we'll have to trust her" more than the "Obviously she's going to betray us, so we put her in the brig"-approach that Adama had with Sharon.

@histguy101

6 жыл бұрын

Well, by the time Voyager returned, the Maquis were all dead, and the ones who weren't were vindicated, and the Cardassians were an occupied state. I think seven years of good service would be enough to dismiss any "guilt by association" charges that might be leveled against them.

@Samael1113

6 жыл бұрын

You're approaching it wrong... Though it's not like Voyager as a show or Janeway as a captain ever cared about the Prime Directive, buuuuuut... They just introduced a new alien lifeform, theoretically with the ability to evolve at incredibly accelerated rates, onto an alien planet. There is a very high chance they just irrevocably altered the ecosystem and evolutionary development and future of that planet, via that one act. It's pretty much the highest, non-treason, crime a Star Fleet Officer can commit.

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

@@histguy101 Yep and there was even that episode where (like a year late) the news about the Maquis finally hits Voyager and the former Maquis characters are DEVASTATED by it. Be'lanna's reaction especially got me. I love that they actually thought of that, and for a moment, _truly_ integrated their 24th-century timeline shows into one story. So cool.

Not the best Trek series, but Voyager definitely had the best doctor.

@STho205

4 жыл бұрын

theLundLs she wasn't the most entertaining or sarcastic witty....but she sure was a MILF.

@realGBx64

4 жыл бұрын

Cries in DeForest Kelley

@luxintenebris1776

4 жыл бұрын

Apologize to Bones right now!!

@MachineWashableKatie

4 жыл бұрын

Voyager had the best neelix

@AlternativeExplosion

4 жыл бұрын

@@MachineWashableKatie Neelix is the Jar Jar Binks of Star Trek

The "evolution" part is easily the most laughable. First of all, metamorphosis is not a mechanism of evolution. Secondly, the environment he was in was on that ship. Adapting to an environment specifically tailored for humanoids, means... he'd stay humanoid.

@stargazerspark4499

5 жыл бұрын

id like to think that when you go warp 10 it activated some earlier evolutionary programming that was still preserved in the human genome, possible when you consider humans share 90+% of our DNA with many other creatures, maybe the spacetime distortion tachyon technobabble screws up gene expression by messing with regulator proteins...or maybe its just weak writing ;-)

@Tareltonlives

4 жыл бұрын

It's almost as ridiculous as that TNG episode where Troi becomes a lizard and Barclay becomes a spider as the crew "de-evolves"

@Tareltonlives

4 жыл бұрын

@El-ahrairah Metamorphosis is a stage in the adult development of invertebrates. It's basically a very dramatic way to grow up. Evolution is a process where specific mutations are selected on in each generation. Evolution is generational, metamorphosis happens in a lifetime. Most mutations happen during mitosis of gametes, and selection merely promotes some mutations over others.

@Person01234

4 жыл бұрын

@El-ahrairah He's saying that evolution, contrary to the picture painted by say, creationists, does not function by metamorphosis. You aren't one creature, then suddenly become another because you "evolved". Also, P Sher doesn't make any sense, to get to that, one would have to assume that there was some pre-determined destination for evolution, which there simply isn't. The environment is the ONLY thing that matters in determining where evolution goes. When humans live in an environment specifically designed for their biology, evolution wouldn't change them into salamanders, at all. Changing one creature into another arbitrary creature designed for some swamp planet is not evolution, there's no "evolutionary code" in the human genome.

@handsomebrick

4 жыл бұрын

@@Person01234 Or to put it simply, evolution is not something that happens to individuals.

I can't even begin to fathom how messed up I would feel if I found out that I had spawned an entirely new amphibious race of irrational beings and that I.had abandoned it in an unmapped planet. Like... would they feel like children? Pets? Like they were even mine? That was messed up!

@Jiub_SN

11 ай бұрын

If they didn't remember it happening then the creatures were better off in the wild, if they were sentient then uh... yeah janeways a psycho

2 changes that would make the story make more sense. 1) Don't use Paris and Janeway. Use two one time characters. 2) Make the salamander thing seemingly irreversible. Show the crew trying everything they can to fix it, but nothing they try seems to work. Make the remaining things they haven't tried too dangerous or too costly to waste on two crew member. Make that they're rapid breeding is a potential drain on resources. Make it so they are forced to abandon the poor souls on a unknown planet. Boom! Warp 10 is off the table as an option as the cost is not one they're willing to pay. It could also have lead to a much better story, but maybe not.

@Fuchsfeuer

2 жыл бұрын

I also thought straight away that a red shirt should have been used and that he or she would die as a result. Q could also appear and explain that your mind is still far from understanding such a speed at all and only beings like Q Warp 10 or what it really is are capable of pure teleportation and nothing can be solved with machines and thus one would have set a limit for all living beings. would also explain why beings like Q no longer have physical bodies. Otherwise things like mutations would happen to the bodies and they would eventually die off. To this Q could say that the salamander thing is not an evolution but a reverse evolution or the genes and atoms have changed at such a rate that it will turn the red shirt into a salamander animal and eventually kill it. Q could also answer that you don't even understand what's actually in the apparently empty space of space and it's definitely not empty.

@germanvisitor2

2 жыл бұрын

3) Don't call it evolution when it is obviously not evolution.

@NovemberXXVII

2 жыл бұрын

@@germanvisitor2 Well yeah, but then they'd have to figure out what it actually *is*, and that would require even more coffee.

@R1ckj333

Жыл бұрын

And add Groppler Zorn to the episode, That would have fixed it.

@firefly4f4

Жыл бұрын

Why is Warp 10 even on the table to begin with? There's absolutely no point to occupying every point in the universe. You just need to go faster, period, not infinitely fast. Also, "theoretical impossibility" doesn't mean it might be possible. It means that unless the universe doesn't work the way we understand it (theory) it can't happen (impossible).

3:13 I know next to nothing about science, but I have it from a good source that "multi-spectral engine design" only makes sense assuming their ships are powered by rainbows.

@90lancaster

6 жыл бұрын

If I was being generous I would suggest it might mean that the energy of the deca-lithium is utilised in more than one outputs simultaneously at different frequencies - it might also be some reference to compensations in the drive and changing it's frequencies in a rotating manner to prevent side effects that were blowing the ship up due to some form of feedback. Though generating such a huge amount of energy seems to me that they'd have issues with running out of fuels before reaching the threshold - so that might be a factor in the multi-frequency design - it might be boot strapping itself up to higher energy levels using the special properties of the deca-lithium and sustaining an impossible reaction rate with less fuel. But without know the exact properties of Deca-lithium I could only speculate as to how. They seemed to be having as much trouble accelerating beyond the particle build up (also a problem with Transwarp in general) and There solution is interesting as the other ways to compensate for Ludicrous speed side effects are quite different in other situations - as are the side effects. I like the subject though as I feel like it's a thread that goes through all the shows which ties them together.

@christopherwall2121

4 жыл бұрын

"...Which leads to the mental image of the crew shoveling Care Bears into the reactor" -- SF Debris

@alanbear6505

4 жыл бұрын

@@christopherwall2121 Good Luck Bear's luck just ran out...

@cameronheaton9900

4 жыл бұрын

Sfdebris?

@neolexiousneolexian6079

2 жыл бұрын

@@90lancaster Maybe the warp field is akin to a standing wave kind of interference pattern in subspace? And "multi-spectral" means that the interference pattern is generated, tuned, and stabilized using more nuanced component frequencies?

A couple of "inside baseball" bit regarding this episode: 1) Back when TNG was developed, Gene Roddenberry ordered that the warp speed scale be redone, making Warp 10 the ultimate speed barrier that can't be broken (the rationale being that the newer ships were so much faster than the old junk heaps of Kirk's day that to avoid references to ship's going warp 15 or so, just change the scale). 2) The justification for that warp ten limit is from the writer's tech manual (yeah, they had one) and was a bit of a reference to the Infinite Improbability Drive from "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy", and as such, was actually a bit of a joke. Sadly, Brannon Braga took it seriously and this episode was the result.

@mikeweber3685

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure of the timeline, but I first heard of the warp 10 limit in the book 𝑉𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑎 which lamely ended with someone trying to go warp 10 and being stuck in time going nowhere.

@QuarkGamingLLC

Жыл бұрын

Star Trek really isn’t the franchise where you can make up something technical as a joke and have it stay a joke. It works in Hitchhikers because… well it’s Hitchhikers. Star Trek ain’t a goofy little adventure through the universe, no matter what the new writers try to do with the new shows

"Our crew of space nerds." As much as I like star trek, I have to admit that's very accurate of pretty much every character.

@paulgibbon5991

Жыл бұрын

More coffee?

So someone on the writing team saw The Fly and were like "Yeah, lets do that. Only dumber."

@nd9814

4 жыл бұрын

C Matthews that is astute analysis. Early Voyager was ironically great and later Voyager (once Seven comes on) is actually pretty good sans a few episodes

@senorpepper3405

4 жыл бұрын

janeway was thicc

Millions of years from now some giant salamanders will have a laugh at anyone who has had a laugh at the expense of this episode! ;-)

Don't worry about not having any scientific credentials. Neither did anyone on this show.

@batmanlaughed800

6 жыл бұрын

So, if he occupied every point in the universe simultaneously then he’s dead because he’s at the heart of a black hole, the center of a planet, and the heart of a sun.

@Isolder74

5 жыл бұрын

don't worry that's what sfdebris is for he has that covered.

@cameronpattie2773

4 жыл бұрын

@@batmanlaughed800 And inside every solid object in the universe.

@TroutBoneless

4 жыл бұрын

oh we wrote ourselves into a corner? D E F L E C T O R D I S H T I M E

@thegreenmanofnorwich

4 жыл бұрын

Even my 13 year old self saw problems in the physics and biology. I was pretty good at both, but I was just a kid who at the time wasn't interested in either. That's a pretty piss poor standard of writing when a 13 year old can tell you it's bullshit.

Confirmed : Janeway wants that Paris D. Thank you Threshold.

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

I know, right? I always wondered why, after that, the two of them didn't start kind of..."SAY...." looking at each other and, considering it... Then again maybe Salamander Paris was just that _bad_ at it. XD

In the novel version of Voyager's pilot, "Caretaker", Janeway first meets Paris at a penal colony. There's a good paragraph of her lusting over him (Paris being all muscular and sweaty from hard labor). Oh, yeah. She initiated. She'd been waiting.

@danielyeshe

2 жыл бұрын

You are kidding? Please be kidding.

@MinscFromBaldursGate92

11 ай бұрын

ᕦ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)ᕤ

"My dad was a trekkie and wasn't interested in Deep Space Nine." This is such a contradictory statement.

@0815Horst

Ай бұрын

Not at all. A lot Star Trek fans weren't that interested in DS9. The argument was: oh it's not on a ship, but a space station. So boring. Glad it's getting now the recognition it always deserved. It's hands down the best Star Trek series.

I laugh every time Harry says "Yes!

Turns out those amphibians they found were just random creatures seeded with human DNA by the hyperevolved Janeway/Paris, who escaped to later evolve into the first Qs.

@jcdenton2187

2 жыл бұрын

That somehow sounds less ridiculous than the actual episode and I kinda like it. Not that I would want that to be the case. Heck no.

At least the threshold of ruining the caber toss won't be crossed

@FuugaNatsu

5 жыл бұрын

DINNAE LIGHT THA CANDERR!

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

Well I mean, THAT would just be criminal. Although, really, as someone said on the comments for "Sub Rosa"...wouldn't you be USED to rain on a "Scottish" colony and know how to deal with it? Seriously! Throw your damn caber into the mud like a true Scots...person and shut up. :P

The Doc and 7-of-9 were the 2 best things about this show.

@deraltetrekkie6088

6 жыл бұрын

Well there is B'elanna and Harry Kim, too. And Janeway, when she's not voiced by Lupa or SFDebris, has some really nice moments. Basically I liked that crew - even Neelix.

If I'm not mistaken, this episode was so bad that it was officially declared non-canon.

@sanityisrelative

5 жыл бұрын

I remember watching the commentary, with the writers I think, and they apologized for the episode's existence.

@axenledgie1423

4 жыл бұрын

The Warp 10 barrier concept is pretty cool, but the weird fast evolution thing is absolutely trash

@handsomebrick

4 жыл бұрын

It's all non-canon now anyway.

@KhaosAdmiral

3 жыл бұрын

@@sanityisrelative yeah Brennan Braga is utterly embarrassed by writing this episode and considered it a real dud.

@kamilgregor

2 ай бұрын

Not any more, thanks to Lower Decks

"A cuchi moya, am I right, captain?" That line got me laughing so hard, I've been bothering my wife with that line to the point she's annoyed.

@fullmoon1072

2 жыл бұрын

It’s not hard for men to annoy their wives

They... They evolved into giant Axolotls O.o. I'm not even kidding. Those are literally what they are designed as...

Turning into an Axolotl is absolutely an improvement

I love the look on Mulgrew's face at 11:46. That "Yeah, I'm not buying this bullshit, tacked-on ending for a second..." look is priceless!

I think the important thing to take away from this episode, is that Chakotay's people have a saying.

Your jayneway impression is A+

Remember Neelix was supposed to be the "breakout" character

@tentringer4065

5 жыл бұрын

So was Jar Jar Binks.

@BrettCaron

4 жыл бұрын

Neelix is the key to all this. Because he's a funnier character than we've ever had before

@maxacorn

4 жыл бұрын

the only thing that breaks out is me in hives when neelix cooks.......um...."food".

"Dark Matter Nebula" I just found the best band name ever.

@JamesMC04

5 жыл бұрын

Best Boy Band evah = Tom Paris and the Salamanders.

@AmayaUsagiTenshi

4 жыл бұрын

YES!

@anihtgenga4096

4 жыл бұрын

How 'bout "Hairy Quim & the Depilatories"?

No joke, this is by far and away my favourite episode of Voyager. It goes so far beyond the boundaries of fucking stupid that it comes out the other side as a pure nugget of golden genius. xD

Voyager is my fave Star Trek. Threshold is awful. Yet not only did you have me laughing so much I could hardly breathe, you still somehow treated it with respect in the end. THAT is good writing. Thank you so much!!

The salamander thing would have made more sense if they were de-evolving.

Fun Fact with no bearing on this video: There was pretty decent* show called Threshold, starring Carla Gugino, Peter Dinklage and Mr. Data himself, Brent Spiner. It only lasted half a season or something. *As I recall anyway. It's been like 13 years.

I wanna know what happened to the children salamanders. They are more advanced than us and would have cooler ships etc.

"Tell Harry...I never really liked him." Poor Dumb Harry....

@ginsengaddict

6 жыл бұрын

Why hello there, fellow SFdebris fan :P

@quincyrich5817

6 жыл бұрын

yesss

@thespecialneedsgroup

6 жыл бұрын

I absolutely love that Allison and Chuck (SF Debris) seem to have independently come to the same conclusions about Janeway. To the point that they've both given her nearly the same personality.

@craigusselman546

4 жыл бұрын

@@quincyrich5817 YISSSSS

@maxacorn

4 жыл бұрын

true but......................she still should've eaten harry.

Watching this made me think of a cosmic horror episode, where the intro is more or less the same, but when they find Paris, they realize it's been so much longer for him. Like, months maybe, being everywhere at once. Not just in the vacuum of space, but in the ship. In every ship. In every system, in every living thing in every system. And witnessing all of this simultaneously was too much for his brain to handle. But what he could handle, what he could understand, is that something else existed there. Something that watched. Something that scared Paris more than the thought of spending eternity being everywhere and not knowing how his mind would survive that I so wish this happened, maybe with Paris freaking out and trying to shoot his own shadow with a phaser or something, and having to be restrained with no one believing him, except the Doctor after looking at a continual brain scan or something. And then, in the climax, after even the doctor starts to think they're just hallucinations, Paris sees the thing hovering over him, inches away. He cries for help, and people come rushing but the entity sent them away and back to wherever they came from with similar and very minor cases of whatever the Doc saw in Paris. Then, when the Entity tries to touch Paris, it almost tears his mind apart. The Doctor, who was scanning his brain saw that the entity was doing something similar, but by actually entering it on the molecular level and causing severe damage and pain. After that, the Doctor sees a way to reverse the energy currant that was being forced into Paris's brain or something and scares the Entity off This probably sounds like a shitty fan fic, but this is just like, off the top of my head at 2 am after watching this video

The "shuttlecraft getting pooped out" thing was stupid and juvenile and I've been giggling about it for the last ten minutes.

Great review! I like how both Lupa and SfDebris have the same idea and voice for Janeway.

@AllisonPregler

6 жыл бұрын

She is sort of a nasally villain in the canon of the show.

I like how this video feels like if SF Debris got drunk & joined the MST3K team, thus making this more entertaining than his own review.

You know how Allison feels about a character when she gives them the Halliwell voice. Hands down my favourite Allison voice.

Whenever Voyager comes on in my presence, it is -always- this episode.

My dad is a Trekkie too! I remember him watching The Next Generation all the time. He still does.

I honestly thought this ep was a fever dream

6:52 it wasn't warp 10 that mutated Paris. It was Neelix's coffee that really turned him into a space lizard and not the DNA discombobubabble. That explains why they couldn't have the whole ship do warp 10 and back. A few dialogue changes would turn a pile of mush into a different pile of mush as Neelix mutinies! 11:27 ROTFL 12:24 really, Tom kidnaps Janeway but it's Janeway initiates mating but doesn't eat him afterward with BBQ sauce?!

@christopherwall2121

4 жыл бұрын

"The ship is MINE now! Eh eh eh!"

@Allangulon

4 жыл бұрын

That's absolutely and patently ridiculous! Where would Janeway Salamander get sauce?

I love that my Star Trek Fan family check out so much from this episode/season/show that all we really remember and got pissed off about in this episode is that they left their children on the planet. When needing to remind my mother of this episode that's all I have to say to her and she goes into a rant.

Your videos are killing me. Whoever's idea it was to put that dramatic pause in at 8:55 is a GENIUS

“Big green fart-hole” is pure poetry.

No lifeform.involved in the production of this episode is proud that this episode.was made.

Your janeway voice is hilarious

That's like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for me. My parents insist that I loved that show, I remember watching it, have all of the toys, Halloween costumes, VHS', etc, but all that sticks with me is the second live action movie where I was mad that Shredder died when the roof caved in on him. I remember nothing else at all.

There's so much wrong with Threshold. How do you navigate at infinite velocity? If you finish exactly where you started then what's the point? If the drive works and the Doctor can return you to normal just like that why didn't they use it?

@magister343

2 жыл бұрын

It reminds me of one of the most plausible real world theories for how a warp drive could work, which would allow faster than light travel but only on a round trip with no way to steer or stop until you return to the starting point.

As someone who actually really loves voyager (pls don’t come for me) this is the funniest thing I’ve watched

"My dad was a trekkie so I grew up watching V O Y A G E R" This doesn't compute.

@crazydud3380

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, preferring Voyager to DS9 is strange to me. I mean I guess Voyager had more action overall, but DS9 had the most thematic and emotional depth of any Trek show.

@STho205

4 жыл бұрын

Means it was on when she was a kid and her Dad was a Trekkie so he watched anything Trek no matter how bad it was. Thus CBS/Paramount knew they had a HipnoToad franchise. This would have made a great Rick and Morty. Oh yeah, it did. It made at least the, and apparently the fourth cronenberg episode premieres next month.

@mtr801

4 жыл бұрын

@@crazydud3380 DS9 had way more action, escpecially the last two seasons.

@joeyshears1483

4 жыл бұрын

While I'm personally with you on this one, some trekkies view the darker ds9 as a betrayal to the utopian idealism of star trek. For the people who like ds9 it's often a favorite (it is mine), but some people think it doesn't fit. It's also the one I'll suggest to break non trekkies into star trek.

@robertwelch2843

4 жыл бұрын

Voyager was the first series dad had me watch. It's much more child friendly for a 9 yr old

This episode is one that I keep hearing about vaguely, thinking "Oh, bullshit", then getting shocked that it exists.

Wow. I checked your channel out simply out of curiosity hearing your part of the Google document read. This is the first one I watched and it is brilliantly hilarious. I look forward to watching more.

Absolutely hilarious review. I think the writer stated the purpose of Paris and Janeway turning into salamanders was an attempt to demonstrate how evolution doesn't necessarily involve what we would think of as progress? But then why is generating mutations that aren't beneficial to the situation he's in? And even better than just not being mentioned again, Threshold is literally treated as not being in canon by later episodes. Paris specifically says in a later ep "I've never been in transwarp."

@Trevin_Taylor

6 жыл бұрын

Marcus Head maybe that crew was supposed to be the class Y planet copy crew? Like, the demon planet copies went to trans warp, not the “real” ones? I know we’re meant to be able to differentiate between them by the pips on Paris’ neck as we’re meant to believe copy Paris wasn’t demoted, but how do we know he wasn’t demoted then promoted again like real Paris? Unless this episode happens after the copy ship dissolved which would destroy my entire argument. At least I’m trying dammit; That’s more than the writers can say about Janeway. Is it every even numbered episode she threatens to self destruct the ship at the drop of a hat and odd episodes where she’ll cross any line to keep the ship intact? Or is it the other way around? Edit: considering this is season 2, I doubt they’d been to the demon planet yet. Shit.

@planescaped

6 жыл бұрын

God... voyager had some of the best Trek episodes of all time, and yet so many of the worst as well...

@WTFisTingispingis

6 жыл бұрын

Marcus Head Wait I'm confused. Isn't this the OPPOSITE of evolution? I mean if they were evolved they'd probably be more like amorphous blobs with advanced mental capability.

@Trevin_Taylor

6 жыл бұрын

AtticWarrior1994 that was the point. “It’s not what you’d expect” etc, etc. They were probably super smart psychic lizards.

@hollyhobgoblin8838

6 жыл бұрын

No, evolution in the scientific sense just means change. Like Marcus Head said, species change in order to be better adapted to whatever situation they find themselves in, which is why you sometimes have species that give up abilities they used to have such as cave-dwelling species who give up their ability to see because they no longer need it in their particular habitat. This, of course, is at odds with the explanation given within the episode's plot, which is that humanity apparently has a single predetermined genetic path and not the infinitely branching tree of possibilities that looking into humanity's future would realistically be. Sooooo, I'd say that the writers pretty much shot themselves in the foot if they were trying to teach the audience a damn thing about science lol.

I have a similar experience of barely remembering seeing Voyager premiere on TV, but then going back and seeing the full series later in life. The one episode I have a vivid memory of from back then was the really depressing one where the whole ship melts and turns out to be a copy of the original ship.

@d36williams

2 жыл бұрын

one of the best episodes, thats the stuff that made Voyager different from other ST series

Well, whatever is your opinion on this episode and on voyager as whole, i think we can all agree on one thing. We need more Cofee.

@Iamafishproductions

6 жыл бұрын

Damn good coffee.

@amberace

6 жыл бұрын

Perhaps Voyager is really about Janeway's neverending search for coffee

@Longshot441

6 жыл бұрын

I thought it was for real plot

@pluto8404

5 жыл бұрын

Tea. Earl grey. hot.

@Rognik

5 жыл бұрын

I hear there's coffee in that nearby nebula...

Allison, you have ruined Voyager for me because whenever I watch an episode now, all I can hear is Janeway telling everyone that they're on report! Hahaa, I love these Trek videos!

The episode still reached a higher rank than Harry kim.

This episode is so obviously a dream. I've had more random scenes of nonsense dreams that could have been more canon than this.

[Scientist talks about science and Neelix “helps”] best caption ever.

I was laughing so hard the whole time. I'd recomend that you do a few more of these on some of the other infamous star trek episodes. Although the one critisim I have of this video is that Groppler Zorn is not mentioned. His influence on Star Trek Voyager is important.

And holy shit, I never thought of the thing where they could use this transwarp to get home and have the doctor simply turn everyone back from lizards once they get there. Good call, cannon!

I'm taking an anthropology class and I can't stop myself from writing this... I'm sorry but the need is too strong..I can't... Fiiiight iiiitttt!! Actually,asingleorganismcan'tevolveitcanonlymutateoraddaptforittobeevolutionmultipleorganismsmustmakethesamechangesovertime!!. Damn it. I'm.. Just...gonna head out.

@hollyhobgoblin8838

6 жыл бұрын

I was an Anthropology major as an undergrad, so I'm right there with you, bud. Apparently, our DNA can predict what our descendants will look like millions of years from now and it just needs to be """sped up""" to reveal it! It must be psychic DNA!

@TheSeptet

6 жыл бұрын

Alright, but what about Pokemon? Checkmate, anthropologists!

@jordang7479

6 жыл бұрын

Well played, TheSeptet. Well played

@simonwinn8757

6 жыл бұрын

I could techno-bubble that he was not undergoing evolution and say his DNA was changed during the warp 10 flight, as he was everywhere at the same time and would have picked up new DNA in the process. Explaining how the body replaced the cells and didn't kill him would be much harder.

@thespecialneedsgroup

6 жыл бұрын

I drove me nuts, too. And I was an _English_ major.

I laughed my ass off at the Acoochy moya comment!! I thought only my family paid out on that hahahaha

Fun fact: using the 'warp scale' from _The_ _Next_ _Generation_ and onward, no one ever does reach/surpass warp 10. Even Voyager being brought to the Delta Quadrant isn't an example of reaching warp 10--it's more like warp 9.999999999 (or 583,821,399,223 times the speed of light). Warp 10 was meant to be mathematically impossible, not just 'theoretically' impossible, but Voyager's writing staff didn't seem to understand that concept, and so we get a shuttle that can somehow accelerate from around 3800 times to speed of light to 'infinity times the speed of light', skipping over the infinite number of other possible speeds in between. Warp 9.999999 would still have gotten you home in less than a day, guys... You didn't have to go 'infinite speed' and become lizards. Also, a lot of people say that while evolution doesn't have an end goal, it does cause the creature to adapt to its environment. That's a liiittle bit of an oversimplification. The mutations that lead to evolution (which occur between generations rather than actively in an individual, but still) _are_ random, and can cause changes that are actually bad for the species' current environment. The trick is that when this happens, the mutation will probably die before it can reproduce, and thus that change is filtered out of the gene pool; at the same time, the good changes help the individual thrive, reproduce, and pass its new advantage down to its children. Changes that are neither good nor bad in the present environment can hang around uselessly be chance. Long story short, the mutations are completely random, but the environment chooses which ones stick around. With that in mind, Tom mutating into something that can no longer live in the same environment as humans isn't really wrong...but it also isn't 'evolution' since it's not happening between generations.

I don't know why I haven't watched this sooner😂 My ex husband was a big star trek fan... He also once told me, very casually that he "wasn't sure he believed in evolution" 😂😂😂

@mastermarkus5307

2 жыл бұрын

Ah, maybe it was because he got all his evolution information from Star Trek? Lol.

I'm amazed you were able to find a nugget at all in this salamander stew!!!

Having just watched this episode and stumbling on your channel, I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Nobody will catch Voyager once it shifts into MAXIMUM OVERDRIVE!

Kinda reminds me of Genesis from TNG where the crew de-evolved into different creatures.

@merchantfan

6 жыл бұрын

Also a stupid episode. Spot devolves into an iguana.

@LokiDuck

6 жыл бұрын

That episode is actually worse in my opinion just because it actually affected the entire crew instead of just two people and yet, everyone went back to normal right after like nothing happened. Seriously how does someone go back to a normal life after they de-evolved and had to survive as other members of the crew tried to eat/mate with them??? You'd think at least they'd need therapy?

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

@@LokiDuck There doesn't EXIST the kind of therapy that like, all the Trek characters from every series would need by the end of their respective shows. And they'd need it, like, 24/7. It's kind of amazing that Starfleet officers only snap and become crazy dictators SOMEtimes...

@albertschoise8091

4 жыл бұрын

@@merchantfan so? Couldn't Vulkans come from iguana like creatures?

@merchantfan

4 жыл бұрын

@@albertschoise8091 The *cat* devolved into an iguana. Just a regular cat

So Tom's shuttlecraft becomes the Starship Heart of Gold for a few minutes (sigh)

@montyr2083

5 жыл бұрын

I was looking for this comment, and now I found it, and am greatly pleased. Watching this episode when it aired, some friends and I essentially had a race to see who could remember the phrase "Infinite Improbability Drive" the fastest...

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

YES! Oh, my god. Actually, you know what the problem was, though? TEA! They should've used a hot cup of _tea_ , but instead they had coffee! Rookie mistake! If this had happened on Picard's Enterprise it wouldn't've involved so much stupid. Sure, Paris might've turned into a penguin for a while, but it's easier to get better from that.

the doctor was the best part of that show. any doctor heavy episodes are great solely because he is such a great actor.

I laughed so much when I saw the salamanders. If that's where evolution is taking us, we better stop that crap right now!

Sniffs...Voyager had the first female captain, and my little heart felt like anything was possible. I suppose I will always see it with rose-colored glasses, but when I've had a hard day I put Voyager on and Captain Janeway is like the mom I never had. This video wasn't meant for me. I wish they made plushies of Nelix, like they did Flotter for Naomi. I love all the Treks, but Voyager and TNG will always hold a special place in my heart.

@brianbethea3069

4 жыл бұрын

Voyager is great, no need to feel bad about that.

@AnArchyRulzz

3 жыл бұрын

I look at it as comfort food. It isn't the most nutritious or healthy, but if it makes you feel good, have at it.

@jesuszamora6949

3 жыл бұрын

@@brianbethea3069 I was about to say, any series that lasts seven seasons is going to have some shit episodes.

"More coffee?" I could never wrap my head around the techno-babel

RDM is a fine actor, like so many in Voyager he didn't get many chances to shine, especially in later series when a lot of the heavy character drama and development was reserved for Janeway and Seven, and a lot of the earlier series he was just a quip machine at the helm and would sigh laugh before saying "aye captain".

So when Janeway refuses to sacrifice Tom's life its a bad thing, but when Janeway sacrifices Tuvix's life is also a bad thing, so would it then be a good thing if she just sat there and said duh while drooling uncontrolably.

Wait given Paris was already in the process of changing when he did the warp 10 with Janeway wouldn't he change even more becoming a different form of life than what Janeway turned into

Please don't tease us with a Baywatching version of Star Trek: VOY. XD

You are so funny! Thank you for this episode breakdown, your insights were good and very entertaining.

@AllisonPregler

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I remember this episode reminding me of the movie The Fly. I expected a transporter accident turning Tom Paris into a monstrous mutant was let down by the amphibious harmless creatures.

Your edits are just gawd damn amazing Neelix-“More coffee?”

@au9parsec

4 жыл бұрын

Alex Coffee, do you enjoy the coffee, Alex Coffee? Yes, I enjoy the coffee very much my fine butler. Alex Coffee, I am glad you enjoy the coffee, Alex Coffee.

As I was watching this episode I honestly didn't think it was that bad compared to the others... And then it revealed that he had into what humanity would be come... and it completely lost me especially when they just went back to normal at the end of at the episode. However the episode in Next Gen where the entire crew devolved was way way worse because that one affected the entire crew and again it went completely back to normal like nothing happened. Just... how do you go back to normal living after that???

@ThomasstevenSlater

2 жыл бұрын

When you're on the enterprise that doesn't even reach the top ten of weirdest things that happened to you.

@thethirdchimpanzee

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah like, how many crew members returned to normal only to realize that they had *devoured* other crew members!? Or... family members?

@ninjabluefyre3815

Жыл бұрын

I can't agree, I love Genesis.

"More coffee" Good lord idk why but the way you edited this had me chuckling for like 5 minutes 😆

Neat you got into Star Trek by watching it with your dad too. Only for me it was Next Generation, Voyager, Enterprise and a little bit of DS9.

that brundletom line is SO underappreciated

I want more Star Trek manic episodes.

The thing that gets me is the main problem with this script could have been fixed if they just said Paris' dna was "de-volving," thus he and Janeway got turned into tiktaaliks.

Kind of reassuring that one day all humans will turn into catfish salamander mixes

The twits who made Voyager were quite open in that the idea of Seven was sex appeal and a hope to appeal to a different demographic as well as a desire to go mainstream. But Jeri Ryan is actually not to bad of an actor so I think she quickly transcended any desire to put her in that box. People liked writing for her - she was sleeping with one of the bosses and so - well what with the ratings going up when Seven was the Focus and down when Chakotay was - I guess they were on the right track - as she did have a appeal on a variety of levels beyond sex appeal. (sort of like Emma Peel in the 1960's UK TV series the Avengers - she's supposed to have sex appeal (and she sure does) but she's way more than just that). Besides it does happen the other way too - Like Adrian Paul was hired for the Highlander TV show as he was handsome as much as his acting - and you can see the trend is pretty obviously applied to males and females by watching soap operas or certain action drama's with a (mostly hot) cast like Hawaii Five O. Cylon 6 was also obviously designed to make grown men cry - but again she's more than that she's also menacing, creepy and occasionally funny in a dark way. So seven was cynical - yeah sure but only because of the catsuits really otherwise I don't think she was.

@robinchesterfield42

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, totally! To all of that. Seven turned out to be weirdly like...legit awesome, and that episode where she's reliving all the different people she's assimilated was like a sudden "Whoah, she can actually ACT?!" And the Emma Peel thing...actually, funny you say that. You know who kinda reminds me of Seven? Mrs. Peel's PREDECESSOR, Cathy Gale. Deadpan, hot _blonde_ chick in tight catsuits with ZERO tolerance for bullshit. Her whole...way of talking, demeanor, would totally work for a Borg or Vulcan, I swear. She would absolutely react to Satan's Robot by just calmly walking up and ripping out its wires. (and while we're on the Avengers, the actress who played the THIRD lady sidekick, Tara King, was actually _on_ Star Trek. She played a Cardassian Gul on Next Gen. So that's cool. :))

@vermis8344

4 жыл бұрын

I'm going to agree that Jeri Ryan is a capable actor (that episode that Robin mentioned) but I'll say they hardly gave her the opportunity in the show. She was poured into that catsuit but just stands around talking in a monotone like someone pissed in her cornflakes. It was Data all over again, except with a permanently grumpy demeanour and a resistance to exploring anything like a human personality. Data, but easier to look at and harder to listen to. Or maybe I should say, the show already had a Tuvok, they didn't need another. What made it worse was that with her inclusion, the show - clunky as it was - rapidly slid away from 'Star Trek: Voyager' and towards 'Seven and Friends'. I'm currently rewatching the series for the first time since it first aired, as repeats are shown here in the UK, and it feels like every other episode is a Seven episode, or else highlights just how fantastic and magical she is as she stands there and glowers. It feels like a run-up for Star Trek Discovery...

@wallyman292

2 жыл бұрын

IIRC, Ms. Ryan divorced her husband around this time (he was a politician in IL, I think) because he was wanting her to take part in group sex and wife swapping and the like.

I like Lupa's Trek reviews. They work well beside the SF Debris reviews, where he's a mega Trek nerd and she's more casual you get to see different views on the subject. Though both do seem to agree that Threshold is crap and Janeway is the real villain of Voyager. Guess some things are universal.

This episode is infamous. I had heard about it, but had never even seen a clip from it. However, now that I've seen the salamanders, I've gotta say, I think they're pretty good! They make no sense, but they're still well-made rubber suits.

This is a classic vid, thank you for the laughs! And also thank you for the accurate usage of the term “suss”! 😜👍