Seeing what didn't work can be more valuable than watching yet another "watch me cut down this big tree!" video. Thanks for posting Dan.

Thanks for the vid, and the laugh, Dan. I know it wasn't meant as comedy but I think many will relate to that desperate feeling of hours passing like minutes while seemingly swimming against the tide. Your on-site demeanor captured it perfectly. And when the system proved ineffective, you picked yourself up and still got the job done 👍

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

My demeanour on camera was not a great representation of reality, I was stressing like crazy, but felt I needed to at least capture how it had all gone so wrong. It was a disaster, only saved miraculously that we could get the truck down the track. Otherwise it would have been another half day 🤦🏻

@Recoates

3 ай бұрын

​@ClimbingArborist no need to explain, mate. I totally read the situation first time around. When you reach a stage of using dumbbells for a tree rigging operation, speaks volumes in itself. That you had the resolve to continue filming, plus the edit and upload is remarkable. I'm just glad it wasn't either boiling hot or lashing rain all day. But put in context, even within the period of a working week, it's not a disaster. A disaster is when a person, structure or machine gets seriously damaged. Remember the heli in Renfrew ? Ignore the naysayers, and thanks for sharing a valuable lesson.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things it just meant putting in an extra few hours of graft. No one was injured and nothing damaged which like you say, is when you realize you actually have a disaster on your hands. Looking back at this video from the comfort of my computer, I realize I’ve learnt so much more from this experience so it’s actually really valuable.

Don't you just love it when a plan goes all to crap!?!? Just one of those days. Glad you shared!

Used it in mountain rescue to get individuals out of gorges and on river rescues. It is a faff to set up but does ake it safe for the team members going down and the casualty out. Although we used 3:1 or 5:1 pulley systems on each end with prussik back up and release, to get your main / load pulled down if there's not enough weight attach a thin line, your running line tree to tree would either be better with twin ropes or high tension rope. Good luck, and it will take a person on each end of the pull lines, Comms a must.

I had to use a similar system on a large oak tree by a lake. Had to span a much shorter distance, but it was still a nightmare. Took us 2 days to get everything on the ground. Thank you for sharing!

Just such a large span that the weight of the reeve line is always going to be too much for the pulley to come back down by itself. Tag line is the only way. The lower the pulley descends, the easier it comes down, as the weight of the rope in the descending bight starts to compensate for the weight of the sagging horizontal portions of reeve line. I think you are right that the only way to overcome the sag on a span that large ,without putting crazy tension in the track line, is to use two track lines. Using dual track lines also helps you to reduce sag without going too crazy on the vector forces of an overtensioned single line. Also, to lift any sort of decent load, you probably want at least a 3:1 lifting the reeve line and a 3:1 on the control line. Slow process as it needs to be quickly and easily resettable to cover any sort of long distance. Either that or get the GRCS on the case. Everytime i've done a highline or reeve system it's taken me half the day to set it up too, by the time you climb both trees and avoid obstacles in the middle and try and keep any twist out of the lines. I think the guys to learn from are those using reeves with 2 person loads for technical rope rescue. They seem to have the process pretty well drilled in terms of set up/ sequence of sending ropes over etc. Nice video! Thanks for sharing despite it not working.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for your comment and insights, much appreciated

🤔The sag in the high line can be corrected by replacing the rope with a very low stretch spectra line. But the trees will also bend, so they have to be supported by anchor lines on the opposite sides., The bending of the trees might also cause what might have been straight lines down, to now have redirected over branches , causing extra frictions. I am no expert by any means as I am still being over optimistic on my setup, but these are a few of the things I've been working to correct myself. Please update us once you find the culprit. And thanks again for all the experiences your share.👏

Enjoyed the video. I always remember the KISS principle. In most instances, keeping a plan as simple as possible works. Thanks for sharing.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Hindsight is a Wonderful thing 😂

Thanks for sharing Dan, hopefully someone in your subscriber pool can share so tips. Your great attitude despite the lack of success was nice to see. Safe climbing and rigging!

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

I think my attitude on camera seemed better than the actual reality. It was a disaster, only saved miraculously that we could get the truck down the track. Otherwise it would have been another half day 🤦🏻

Thanks for sharing, very enjoyable to watch 👍

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

im extremely jealous...also you are the 1 person to answer 1 of my burning question of mine that i had

Going to have to set that up in the park on the weekend and play with it and show us/find out it’s capabilities. Made one up using stuff I had for work awhile back (way shorter span) be the plan changed at the last minute and we went with muscle so never did get to try it. It did work scaled down in my backyard though so 🤷🏽‍♂️👍🏼👍🏼

BRO! Legit legend for trying. I burnt three hours of editing on my next KZread video. The tree surgery took three hours, so a six hour job all up haha.

I've never understood how a reeve system could be useful for tree work. It looks too complicated and gear intensive. I'm glad you tried it anyway. It's good to learn from our failures when it is safe to do so.

@karendarbres

3 ай бұрын

Can be super useful, but I wouldn’t be confident to use for a bigger set up. It’s a balls when it doesn’t go according to plan.

@zenarbbushcraft

3 ай бұрын

Useful in large estate gardens, where the obstacles are numerous, and often immovable, and more control is necessary, nulling just a simple speedline or rigging setup. Niche circumstances, granted, but I have a client whose grounds are on such steep angles that using this setup makes works possible rather than just easier or more efficient 🥴🤣

Hi, for your purpose, and in this particular case I think a pull line attached to the vertical control pulley (the DMM impact one) might have worked to pull the reeve down. I've used reeves a lot in rescue applications as well as industrial rope access. Just make sure there is no knot at the end of your pull line so it doesn't snag on anything, and if it's very windy you might have to tie it off somewhere so you dont lose the end :)

Ah reeves look great in videos! Shame i didnt workout for you. Only thing i could say from quick watch is doubling up your highline to half slack or perhaps put in a tirfor wire line to act as "pickup" for your highline. Hope that makes sense coming from a rope access tech. Great video

The main rigging block is trying to pull down the weight of both lengths of rope on either side of that system as well as the mechanical disadvantage. Could you put a tagline on it so it could be pulled down from the ground? As for the sag in the main load line, I'm not sure if you could ever put enough tension on it over that much distance. I don't fully understand the physics but the fact that putting more tension means you're also pulling the two trees together makes it very hard to reach a sweet spot. Also everything will stretch out a bit after the first load.

good on you for sharing man. You never know until you try! i shared your feeling half way through your day just setting up a system to not have it work and the tree is still up haha. its a rough one but ive been there. and btw i am always all for making the job the easiest on the ground crew.. even is that means setting up some intricate span rig/speedline/reeve block. at least you tried. for what its worth my 2 cents is yes as you said always have a second static line above the main one for "redundancy" ppl call it. both in case failure of the first and to share the load. second tip is most ppl myself included run a heavy shackle for like a crane off that dmm block to get your weight. it dosnt look pretty but it gives you the weight to drop. and last one i think i heard you say pulling it all by hand. you can do it if you have a slope at least one way so your guy uphill can let it run but to return the line to climber a modified chainsaw winch on like a 461 or 660 makes life very easy for crew and fast. Good luck on next one man love the videos.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Really appreciate your insight and comments 👍

Sometimes you just gotta do it the hard way

Should of, could of, would of; seeing the path you backed your truck down, would a small skid steer with a grapple been of use there? Hard to tell the slope of that path, but it looks solid enough. Oh well. You recognized when it was time to let it go and try a different approach. Thanks for sharing.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

We don’t have a skid steer so that was not an option. You win or you learn… we learned a ton

Not that I've ever done this, but looks like some serious tension is needed in the top line? And maybe smaller diameter ropes for lifting and lowering the load? Any slack in the top line just means you're hauling up hill, but on a span that long the tension has to be immense. Loved the video though. We all know the sinking feeling of when the plan's gone to shit. I might get a mini-skid steer soon, give you good rental price bro ;)

Were both trees anchored? From my experience with pulleys it's necessary to use as static rope as you can get. I like stiffness of PMI Classic Professional Rope 12.5mm. Also I can't imagine this would work efficiently without a winch.

The highline needs to be tensioned once in the beginning, using appropriate mechanical advantage. Then the reeve line is used to lower and raise the pulley with load. That line could be 6 mm, even 4 mm diameter for your application (if you intend to transport 50 kg - 100 kg branches), to avoid it being too heavy.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

I agree the line to haul up the load needs to be smaller and lighter. Not sure if 6mm line would meet standards for rigging operations though, definitely not 4mm

I don't have a reeve, but have a Keanu (silly dmm jokesters). I've never tried using it the way you have. I have only used it to speed line work directly out of the tree and drop on the other side of an obstruction, where a traditional speedline would not give enough clearance. I don't think either were designed to be an unweighted crane trolley.

As for sag, you want as much as possible to reduce the forces on the anchors, especially since you're anchored so high up in the tree, more tension is just gonna bend the tree more and be potentially dangerous, but as you said, two lines to share the load is probably a good idea. From experience though, it might be more work in total to use the reeve system than to walk the wood to the truck. in this case I dont think I'd set a reeve up

I was thinking of getting a reeve for an upcoming job, but figured it wouldn’t work. Was glad because it seems like something you’d need a good bit of practice with before using on a bigger, more complex job. Also didn’t think the investment in a grcs as well was worth it for me

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Yes, I think definitely a few practice setups are required. We did some but not at the distance we used in this video

Excellent video. I have used similar 'tyrolean' traverse style system for working from on very large dead dismantle here in UK. It took forever to set up and was not without its problems (massive sag when loaded). Looking to get the Petzl Reeve trolley for controlled speedline and Reeving so really interested to find out the solution to the problem of the block not lowering down. What diameter is the lifting rope you were going to use? Nice one for giving it a good go. Very cool idea.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Lifting line was 11mm. I think that was a big problem, probably needed to be 8 or 9mm .

Looks like your biggest issue was the needed height of the system and because of that, the working end of the system had a lot of weight and friction with the rope in the sytem, in which the block could not overcome. Look at how much droop you had in your system, the weight was a good idea, but not enough to pull the system tight. You should also look at your tree anchor points, the flex in the trees once loaded would have made it quite challenging to have the system travel. Fantastic set up, and my applaud to you putting this up, not a tin of people would have the balls to let everyone learn from your set up. Take it to some larger stems, and set it up 10 feet off the ground to work the bugs out!

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Appreciate your comments 🤙

Makes sense the block wouldnt come down when you think of the length of rope thats counteracting the weight. Coudve just put a short pull line on the block to pull it down from the ground. Seems like a lot of weight overall to be moving by hand, especially whith the weight of any branches. Looks like it couldve worked with a couple branches at a time with a pull line to lower the block. But with the effort to pull it all up and over the house, it mightve been easier to just handball it. Ive never used this system so i cant say for certain.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Yeah, we have those exact same thoughts as you mention

Sounds like a nightmare, from a rope access point of view (playing with English reeves to move people) one is mitigation of sag. Extremely low stretch rope I needed for you primary support line. Next is to consider the flex through the anchoring tree, back stays will decrease this sag. With such a large span rope weight will cause huge drag , ( use a rope to pull the impact block to load ? ) next is to consider your hoisting system, your going to have to overcome multiple changes in direction (loss of efficiency) and rope weight as well as load, plus any extra sag added by a poorly tensioned primary line. . In theory if both haul line and primary support line are both tensioned well the lateral movement with control lines shouldn't be to bad. If you do not intend to have the reve travel the entire span then some intermittent support pulley could be used to help hold the saging control/haul lines ..... In short more tension. More efficient pulleys and mitigate rope stretch through static rope and back stays. And a big ass mechanical advantage system. As you mentioned the primary support line can be doubled up to load share .

Wondering how much do you charge your client for that pruning work with this rigging system.

The second I saw that neck flap I knew it wasn't going to go well.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

😆

I think a "guided track line" would of been a better method with 2 ropes on the track line so when you get to where you want to drop if its not low enough you can lower the track line along with the reeve.

Lots of leverage on those trees means you can't tension well, which again means you have a ton of sag to work against. Did the lowering rope have to be attached on both sides? Maybe you could tie it off at the device and lower from one side to reduce rope? Just a random observer. No experience.

Sometimes you’ve just gotta get your dragon legs on, ignore the reeves rigmarole & just HEAVE HO’!!!!!!

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Hindsight 🤣

You need an avant 528

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Yes

Sounds like the trees are simply “NOT TALL ENOUGH”. How’s about 2 or even 3 ball carts? Load them with your sticks and fire wood to the heavens and run like hell was on your heels. Good luck, hope this Monday morning in Rochester,NY IS BETTER THAN YOUR DAY IN THIS VIDEO😊

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

😃

The length of travel between the anchor points is too great. Like holding a weight away from your body.

My friend, look for rescue videos with reeve system. Rescue personnel are experts in reeve systems. rescue reeve system

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

👍

Highlines are always a last resort in the rescue world because of the amount of equipment and time to set-up required, as well as necessitating a well-trained, coordinated team. I've never liked them for those reasons. They look cool though. I doubt you would have cleared those roofs anyway with a real load. A certain amount of "sag" in your track lines is not only non-avoidable but required as the tension in your anchors (trees) cannot exceed certain parameters. The tighter the track lines, the more tension which is not good at a certain point. But you would have also been fighting the flexing of the treetops which had you managed to actually load the system it would have been almost comical watching you guys fight yourselves trying to clear the houses. Each action would have counteracted the other action. Also, your control lines require a lot of work to keep in balance as well as excellent comms and coordination. Takes a lot of guys. That angle wasn't steep enough for free rides and the thought of spending all day hauling out sections of trees with a rope system makes me tired just thinking about it. 🙂 Good on you for trying though.

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Thanks for your insight, much appreciated 😃

Too many moving parts lol

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Definitely

Sorry it didn't work live and learn

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

Exactly, it was a great lesson

Don’t be lazy drag branches don’t fuck about with strings

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

If only your voice of reason was there on the day 🤣 to be honest, for how much of a disaster it was, we learnt so much from the whole thing

@AWSMEAD

3 ай бұрын

😂

@batmantiss

3 ай бұрын

Bro. Someone's gotta take the time to make life easy. If it wasn't for ingenuity, there'd be no crane jobs, not log carts, no chippers...

From the comments it sounds like the wrong application for the system. Did anyone provide an answer? My guess is you contact Ryan @ youtube.com/@HowNOT2?si=DJNTb3w3gIWcpbJO I would be surprised if these guys do not know how to use the system as intended and in so doing answer your questions

@ClimbingArborist

3 ай бұрын

👍