Check out some music here: podcasts.progrock.com/2023/05/30/sea-of-tranquilitys-ranking-the-albums-blondie/?fbclid=IwAR3Ozux5EhbdQuOunQhnh4EmklqcQhTy02lklMhzsoyP7qtu-ryKbWG3k9o

I thought Pete was gonna have to pause for a cold shower reminiscing about Debbie 😂

@63mckenzie

Жыл бұрын

I hope his wife doesn't see this video!

Pete interviewing Debbie Harry really needs to happen.

@DamageCase91

Жыл бұрын

Pete gonna need a towel with him. Jk 😅

@ritaenjoytheday5015

Жыл бұрын

He will have to settle for Jimi Destri

I saw Blondie perform on their first major tour opening for Iggy Pop and several times since then. About a year ago, a mutual friend surprised me by bringing Ms. Harry along to a dinner we had planned. Dinner lasted more than three hours, and during that time, we discussed many things....but Blondie was not really one of them. I can assure you that Debbie Harry is a down to earth, intelligent, funny individual....I will be a fan forever! Upon leaving the restaurant, I told her I was going home to blast "Pollinator". She seemed pleased.

About ten years ago I worked for a company that did kitchen and bath remodels. One day I came in and there was a woman that looked like Debbie Harry meeting with one of the designers. I said to the owner, “that woman looks just like Debbie Harry from Blondie “. He replied “it is ! “. I said you have to introduce me but he said it would be unprofessional. I sat at my desk whistling every Blondie song I could remember. After about five minutes of this, Debbie got up , walked over to my desk, and said “hi, I’m Debbie”. We talked for a few minutes and she was so gracious and nice.

@PhilBaird1

Жыл бұрын

Even today, if Debbie walked up to me and said hello, I'm sure I would still faint. Nice story Tom.

_Eat to the Beat_ is absolutely flawless, just a mammoth record.

@Camille_Anderson

Жыл бұрын

💯👏👏 it is exquisite. Union City Blue, Dreaming, Shayla, & Atomic. Always on my playlist!

@treff9226

Жыл бұрын

@@Camille_Anderson Union City Blue is flawless! Gorgeous, sublime vocals and melodies on it.

Great ranking of Blondie Pete! What a beautiful voice and always pushing the boundaries of rock and mixing it with other genres! One of a kind she still sounds great today! My first female rock crush 😍! Thank you Pete! Cheers, Mike L 😎🇨🇦✌🏼

The 7️⃣8️⃣/7️⃣9️⃣/8️⃣0️⃣albums I like a lot. Great job PETE. Her Ted Bundy escape story is questionable, but she is still an ICON. 👍💯

Blondie always was and still is a great band. Dislikers can walk on.

Great episode Pete! Blondie is certainly an icon, great band, alot of great tunes of of course a charismatic and beautiful lead singer with a style uniquely her own.

I really love the album cover for Autoamerican. It reminds me of 1980 so much. Rapture is F'n AMAZING! I'm talking about the extended version which is nearly ten minutes long. I just listened to this and the heavy cool guitar power chord first kicks in and it's at the 7:15 mark. This song is a time machine song/album for me!

@truckerkevthepaidtourist

Жыл бұрын

Oh ya goin around eating cars😂😂

This band's "secret weapon" is the great drummer Clem Burke. I'm my opinion, he was integral to their sound. Honestly, I will dig anything he plays on. Interesting you didn't mention him!

Great timing : I watched Cronenberg's "Videodrome" recently and that made me want to explore the Blondie albums, so thanks for this Blondie primer, Pete!

I like it a lot when Pete is talking about bands which are just a little bit out of his comfort zone. Or mine for that matter. The previous one I think was XTC some years ago. Great show.

Best of Blondie CD was good enough for me. As a player Clem is great. I’ve always enjoyed his drumming. Although I’m not a huge fan, one has to admit that Debbie is a great, distinctive singer and was definitely influential no matter what category or genre you want to put them in…. and yes Pete, she’s also hot and was an iconic sex symbol.

I got into Blondie a few years ago after seeing the video for The Hardest Part. Eat To The Beat is also my favorite Blondie album. Atomic may be all time favorite song of theirs. Accidents Never Happen is another favorite song of mine. I think The Hunter is an underrated album. I love it!

@joedeguiseppe2424

5 ай бұрын

I love the hunter as well, top 3 favorite of there's.

I remember being astounded turning on the TV to see them performing "Maria" on Saturday Night Live after all those years absent. I went out and picked up the album next day.

This is awesome looking forward to it There is some just great stuff from Debbie and the gang an old clem and what an amazing drummer. I still enjoy a lot of their albums to this day. Many people give the nod to parallel lines I give the nod to eat to the beat I think that's a fantastic album that's my number one.

1 Parallel Lines (no surprise) 2 Plastic Letters (small surprise) 3 Blondie (st debut) 4 Eat to the Beat 5 Autoamerican That's the extent of my collection.

@keithmcgrath687

Жыл бұрын

Good list.

@friscoprocessserver6078

Ай бұрын

Thats my ranking too

so happy to hear Eat to the Beat get some love-especially the song "Victor." I would probably swap the debut with The Hunter, otherwise I'm in lockstep with Pete's ranking

Im both shocked and delighted that Pete is covering Blondie. Been a long fan of their 70s input but Pete always said Punk/New Wave wasn't really his thing.. Always free to change your mind.

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

It's more that I've been a fan since I was a kid, rather than the genre overall.

@Jake-pw7rj

Жыл бұрын

@@seaoftranquilityprog Tiffany was hot in the eighties with her cover of "I Think Were Alone Now." That doesn't mean I listened to her. 😄

@chivesarchives

Жыл бұрын

He's running outta bands to rank..remember..he ranked the firm..a band with 2 albums lol

@Jake-pw7rj

Жыл бұрын

@@chivesarchives I used to like The Firm, kind of a strange merger of Bad Company and Zeppelin. Page bailed out on Paul Rodgers like what he later did with David Coverdale. Creepy Jimmy Page got rusty and old, waiting around for Robert Plant to say yes to a proper Led Zeppelin reunion. Now it is definitely too late. Those old clowns were just an over inflated cover band that stole the royalties from blues and folk artists anyhow, so it doesn't matter what they did or didn't do. Back in the day, I thought "Mean Business" was slightly better than "The Firm" debut.

@capt.animosiac5093

Жыл бұрын

It would be cool if Pete reviews The Motels. They had that somewhat similar vibe to Blondie but honed their own sound as well. Always had the hots for Martha Davis as a kid.

Never listened to any of their albums - though once had a greatest hits style release - but heard all their massive hits in the UK back in the late 1970's and early 1980's.

Love Blondie! A few additions to Pete’s points: 1. SoT fave Robert Fripp does the creepy guitar bit on “Fade Away and Radiate.” 2. Gotta give some love to Clem Burke as a drummer, particularly in their live shows from the 1970s, he beats the crap out of that kit. 3. How Pete didn’t mention “The Hardest Part” video, I have no idea. 😂

I remember getting Parallel Lines on vinyl back in 1979 and I loved it. I only have the first five, but I may have to investigate some of the later ones. My ranking of the first five: 5. AutoAmerican 4. Plastic Letters 3. Blondie 2. Eat To The Beat 1. Parallel Lines (The first album I buy from a band often ends up being my favorite. Something about that discovery of a band's music)

I pretended not to like them back in the day as they weren’t heavy enough but have picked-up the first five albums on vinyl over the last year or so. I’d probably stick AutoAmerican at #5 and bump the debut up to #4 but can’t argue with the Debbie hotness ranking!!

Nice to mix up with a New Wave band. Definitely "Eat to the Beat" is their best by far. Her crowning achievement vocally. Without a doubt Clem Burke is one of the most underrated drummers in Rock history. Even Terry moved his style closer to Clem's with Missing Persons. I was never sold on Debbie's 'sex kitten" image. That doesn't seem to be the case with you.

@keithmcgrath687

Жыл бұрын

I think Parallel Lines is best, but yes Clam Bluke is so good. I get Keith Moon vibes from him.

Very enjoyable ranking of the Blondie albums there Pete! I only have the first six. Saw them live twice and first time I was fortunate to touch Debbie`s hand as she leant towards the crowd from the edge of the stage! She was wearing a great outfit Pete you would have loved it! My favourite has always been `Plastic Letters` though good to hear you talking so positively about `Eat to the Beat` which I think is a fabulous album and easily makes it into my top two. My ranking of those first six - 1. Plastic Letters 2. Eat to the Beat 3. Parallel Lines 4. Blondie 5. Autoamerican 6. The Hunter

I love Clem on drums. This guy has aged beautifully. Watch the 1979 Dreaming and watch him recently, his energy and style is still the same. So much fun to watch.

@Camille_Anderson

Жыл бұрын

i agree, i have been lucky enough to see them live six times & i have so much footage of Clem on drums. What a musician! he trains like an athlete to keep with the demands of touring.

1) Parallel Lines 2) Eat to the Beat 3) Plastic Letters 4) Blondie 5) Autoamerican 6) No Exit 7) The Curse of Blondie 8) The Hunter 9) Panic of Girls 10) Pollinator 11) Ghosts of Download

Great stuff Pete. I always thought that Union City Blue takes some beating, and it's one of the greatest songs about New York. I remember hearing it after 9/11 and it was so uplifting. The sound of a great city.

@treff9226

Жыл бұрын

Fav Blondie song, Union City Blue, just for the gorgeous melodies and catchy vocal - it is music in its highest form!

I live right next door to Union City in Hoboken. Debbie lived in Union City briefly and my uncle actually met her once while she lived there. In the video for Union City Blue parts of Hoboken are there. The old Hoboken Pier with New York City in the background. The guitarist Jimmy is actually from Jersey City which is also next door to Hoboken. Although Blondie is considered a New York City band they are really from New Jersey. Yeah they started in CBGB'S so they consider them a New York City band.

Love this .. I agree with your numbering pretty much. I like Blondie a lot. But Eurythmics are my favorite pop band. ;)

1. Blondie 2. Autoamerican 3. Parallel Lines 4. Plastic Letters/Eat To The Beat

A very good review . Thank you for reminding me that I need to revisit their catalogue. And the videos . Cheers !

My introduction to Blondie was the compilation Best Of Blondie which featured Call Me. Good stuff.

This is a great video. I have the “Parallel Lines” vinyl and am familiar with Blondie’s early hits. Did check out the first album a couple of times on KZread. Just keep on keeping on.

I agree with you there on 'The Hardest Part:. Terrific song. Great video, Pete!

I would probably rank them as you did. Maybe flip Eat to the Beat and Parallel Lines. I always considered "Here's Lookin' At You" as a lounge tune. On of my favourite things about Blondie is their eclecticism.

I thought that you did them already! Apparently you didn't, but that's cool! I did see them last summer with The Damned. Blondie sounded really fun live! Great band!

I always wondered what would have happened if a band like Blondie didn't have a beautiful lead singer like Debby Harry. Would they have been as successful as they were or not? Pete, when are we going to have the next "Top 6 album runs". You said that though it was going to be just 25 , you had more to come. I can't wait for it. To me it is one of the more interesting series of videos you have done.

Great band! Pretty much agree with your list, but I would put the debut higher. Debbie also did 5 solo albums over the years which are awesome! Koo Koo, 1981 Rockbird, 1986 Def, Dumb & Blonde, 1989 Debravation, 1993 Necessary Evil, 2007

Just watching the beginning of the video, but I'm really happy you are covering the band. I'll respond back what I like after the video...

Love Blondie. great review. it's funny how we all view their career differently. Walk Like Me you didn't really care for and that may be my favorite by them :) I also love didn't have the nerve to say no. love youth nabbed as sniper. think my fav. album is plastic letters. maybe because of nostalgia for me. (one of the first albums I got from a discount bin)

Denis killed it for me. Parallel lines will always be my favorite followed by Eat To the Beat which always seemed as a sort of copy. Parallel lines may be among my favorite albums of the new wave era

"Eat to The Beat" is my favorite.

Looking forward to this. They have a diverse catalog.

Out on the streets - awesome boxset

AutoAmerican my top fave,i also go for Plastic Letters and Curse of Blondie.Parallel lines too.

Great video. If you're talking about rock you have to have Blondie in there someplace. Glad to see you giving them credit.

Parallel Lines is an excellent album, whatever genre you want to call it. But for me the main draw in Blondie was drummer Clem Burke. An absolute monster. And his work with Eurythmics in the 80's was just as exceptional. And yes, Debbie was nice, too.

Gotta hear their version of "Heroes" with Robert Fripp.

As a schoolkid I loved Blondie's mix of poppy tunes, disco groove, and new wave attitude. Clem Burke is one of my favourite drummers. I always loved the energy he brought to their sound. I'm guessing he was influenced by Keith Moon🤔. I got the chance to see him guesting with a Blondie tribute band a few years ago and was almost lost for words when I met him after the gig. I ended up blurting out "I fucking love you". Doh!! Not my proudest moment🤭

Great list pete. Here's mine 1. Parallel lines 2. Plastic letters 3. Eat to the beat 4. Autoamerican 5. Blondie 6. The hunter 7. Pollinator 8. The curse of Blondie 9. No exit 10. Panic of girls 11. 40ever/Ghost of download

Parallel Lines, my #1 Blondie album of all time hands down. I own it on vinyl, I also own the 45 of Heart of Glass but unfortunately there's a lot of skips and I can't seem to fix it no matter how many times I've cleaned it... it's apparent to me that the grooves in the vinyl are damaged beyond my ability to repair them and no amount of cleaning will fix the problem. Also, have you ever done a review of Tales from the Darkside on The Monster's Den? Debbie Harry was great in that film.

1. Parallel Lines 2. Blondie 3. Eat to the Beat 4. Autoamerican 5. Pollinator 6. Plastic Letters 7. The Hunter I don't feel familiar enough with the others to rank them, though I remember The Curse of Blondie is a total slog. Pollinator is an excellent return to form, in my opinion.

@truckerkevthepaidtourist

Жыл бұрын

Pretty cool David you gave pollinator a fairly high rating I didn't I liked it but I didn't really love it I no longer have it LOL

my first crush..she's stunning..and they are awesome

Pollinator/Eat to the Beat are my Faves then Parallel, Autoamerican, Curse, Panic, No Exit, Blondie, Plastic, Hunter and Ghosts is Last

Eat to the Beat I had on 8-track, then bought the cassette now of course the CD. Definitely my favorite Blondie album. Parallel Lines would also be second for me. Autoamerican third. These 3 albums are just fantastic. The song Shayla is proof that there is a Heaven because her voice on this song is that of an Angel. Great ranking. Been waiting for Monster Magnet. Looking forward to it.

Blonde Is The Best 💯, I Have The Best Of Blonde, Classic

I love Blondie but haven't listened to their albums after the Hunter exept for No Exit one time. Maybe I should give them a try. My favorite is Plastic Letters. Best cover art is Autoamerican. Love that picture.

Debbie Harry is truly photogenic. Great list.

Definitely looking into some Blondie soon. Thanks for the ranking! Any chance of a Slade or Doro / Warlock ranking episode?

Why are so many people freaking out about Pete ranking Blondie's discography? There are plenty of artists/genres that are full of great music and days of listening to be had. Pete has turned me on to quite a few artists, some out of my "comfort zone" so I think the diversity is great. If for some reason I'm not feeling it, I just won't watch, but I think we all need to be a bit more open-minded on some things, music being an easy one. I'll get off my soapbox now, didn't really intend for my comment to end up that way. I own the first 6 albums on CD, the 3 CD box set with the bonus tracks only is really worth it Pete!

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Great band

Deborah Harry started in a folk hippie band "Wind in the Willows in 1968 and was brown haired

@mjp8648

Жыл бұрын

Should have been called "Bottle Blondie"!

Regarding The Ramones, one of my most favorite movies is the movie, “End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones”.

💛Shayla...........Love Blondie! Eat to the Beat tops my list as well. You need a Blondie Tee Pete!:) I have one😁

@truckerkevthepaidtourist

Жыл бұрын

I got 2🤠

01 Plastic Letters 02 Paralell Lines 03 Blondie 04 Eat To The Beat 05 The Hunter 06 Autoamerican 07 Pollinator 08 No Exit 09 Ghosts Of Download 10 The Curse Of Blondie 11 Panic Of Girls

Clem Burke is so underrated.

My list is similar to yours... I'd make a couple switches (Parallel Lines, Eat to the Beat in that order for me... I don't like Autoamerican as much as you do, I like the first record more...). I also lost track after No Exit, so you bring up at least one thing I need to check out! I expected you to point out -- maybe you didn't know or remember, but notable -- Robert Fripp played on "Fade Away and Radiate" !

Love the early albums. Need to get Pollinator. Cheers.

Ranking The Hunter and Autoamerican above the debut is a very gutsy move...LOL

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

Not for me it isn't.

@Rockerlady

Жыл бұрын

​@@seaoftranquilityprog Pete, what is your view on bands continuing after many lineup changes? I saw Kreator, Sepultura and Death Angel last night.

Awesome ! Another band seen as "new wave" but were really a clever pop band.

Atomic's guitar theme always makes me think of the old James Bond movies.

Eat To the Beat has been my fave since it was released! Parallel Lines for sure 2nd.

What child of the seventies doesn’t love Debbie and Blondie. My top five. 1- Parallel Lines 2- Eat to the Beat 3- Blondie- S/T debut 4- Plastic Letters 5- Autoamerican FYI: I saw Blondie opening for of all bands Rush at Philadelphia Spectrum. The crowd gave them a really hard time booing and throwing things but to the bands credit they finished their set gave everyone the finger and walked off in true rock style.

@bartrobinson2103

Жыл бұрын

I was also at that show and I remember How badly Blondie was treated. Typical philadelphia crowd Unfortunately

@captainbeyond7469

Жыл бұрын

@@bartrobinson2103 I was the good looking guy in a navy uniform down front. lol Cheers from The Captain

@bartrobinson2103

Жыл бұрын

@captainbeyond7469 Lucky you I had terrible seats But great memories!

@captainbeyond7469

Жыл бұрын

@@bartrobinson2103 It was a dance concert me and my shipmates were right against the boards in the front. Dead in front of Debbie and Geddy when Rush came out.

Received the box set last year it's awesome 8cds

Very cool high-ranking them however I do not have the final bottom 9 anymore I used to but I got rid of them years ago 9. Panic of girls 8. No exit 7. Pollinator 6. Autoamerican 5. The Hunter 4. Blondie debut 1976 3. Plastic Letters 2. Parallel lines 1. Eat to the beat

WOW, Pete you're in love....I feel u

Their song Victor is like atmospheric black metal musically, done in 1979!

11. Panic of Girls 10. Pollinator 9. Ghosts of Download 8. The Hunter 7. Curse of Blondie 6. Autoamerican 5. No Exit 4. Plastic Letters 3. Blondie 2. Eat to the Beat 1. Parallel Lines

1. Parallel Lines 2. Blondie 3. Plastic Letters 4. Autoamerican 5. Eat to the Beat 6. Pollinator 7. The Hunter 8. The Curse of Blondie 9. No Exit 10. Ghost of Downloads 11. Panic of Girls

11) The Hunter 10) No Exit 9) Ghosts of Download 8) Panic of Girls 7) The Curse of Blondie 6) Blondie 5) Autoamerican 4) Pollinator 3) Plastic Letters 2) Eat to the Beat 1) Parallel Lines

Blondie was great and Debbie was beautiful but for me my '80s crush was Susanna Hoff's. The most devastating eyes I have ever seen. Loved the bands '60s feel but really loved there vocal harmonies

awesome...been waiting to see a vid on this.

@krissymarklewis1793

Жыл бұрын

They are one of those bands that kept things interesting and don't really have a bad album.

If your Blondie fan get the box set

Love the Hunter and saw them on this tour. Jimmy Destry and Glem Burke were throwing stuff at each other the during the show. "Victor"? Yikes!!! Crazy but GREAT!!!!

Blondie.....Great👍 Would you do a show of Ranking the studio albums: Ramones

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

Not a fan, sorry.

@truckerkevthepaidtourist

Жыл бұрын

It's not April fool's Day 🤣🤣

@tjsststsjsjyksjgksjysjs7633

Жыл бұрын

Punk is forbidden on this channel.

@kelvincanda6617

Жыл бұрын

@@seaoftranquilityprog I respect👍

@markandmandyd7445

Жыл бұрын

Thrash is inspired by Punk.. The great Thrash bands Overkill .. Slayer ., Metallica ect say so.. Even covered Punk..I enjoy both but not everyone does and that is fine.. All hear differently.. That diversity makes world of music go round..

Love Parallel Lines. Always thought Sabbaths “Neon Knights” was lifted off “One Way or Another”.

@craigsandry6737

Жыл бұрын

Yeah , I don’t hear that at all 🤷‍♂️

@treff9226

Жыл бұрын

WHAT IN THE WORLD?

@ritaenjoytheday5015

Жыл бұрын

Not the melody of the vocals. The chugging music.

Obviously I have missed out as far as owning Blondie albums. I do own Parallel Lines on LP and The Best of Blondie on CD. I might just add their early stuff, as I have heard very little of their later works.

My top five are WAY ahead of the rest, and the only ones I really ever listen to. 11) Ghosts Of Download (2014) 10) Pollinator (2017) 9) Panic Of Girls (2011) 8) The Curse Of Blondie (2003) 7) The Hunter (1982) 6) No Exit (1999) 5) Autoamerican (1980) 4) Plastic Letters (1977) 3) Eat To The Beat (1979) 2) Blondie (1976) 1) Parallel Lines (1978)

My two hot teen crushes in the 70s were Susan George and a UK dancer called Cherry Gillespie. Just thought I'd share that. Ps Saw Blondie at the Glasgow Apollo in the 70s, concert was broadcast on TV. Still on You Tube. DH is a Lovely lady.

Nice ranking, Pete! I love Blondie as well, my favorite is their first album followed by Parallel Lines. I think you’re using the term post-punk incorrectly though when describing their first two albums. Post-punk emerged in the wake of punk rock and punk hadn’t really happened yet in 1976. I think the term was first used to describe bands such as Siouxsie and the Banshees, Magazine, Wire and Public Image Ltd, who took a more experimental approach with their music, which was slightly different from early Blondie albums. I get it though, you’re trying to avoid the term punk rock so nobody can accuse you of liking some of it. But Blondie‘s debut album was indeed a mix of punk rock and new wave with a heavy 60s vibe.

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

I didn't create the term-Blondie are labeled post punk pretty much everywhere. Sex Pistols came out in 76 and their first album was 77. Blondie basically started right around the same time, and became bigger afterwards.

The main takeaway I got here was Pete want(s/ed) to nail Debbie. Lol but I also loved a lot of their music. Atomic being my favorite. I made the mistake of watching the "what the heck did I just see?" video for the tide is high. Never heard Denis before, I hope I never do again. Lol

One of the most beautiful women to ever walk the planet but it was always about the music for me ……. honestly …… it was

You're aren't the only one who had a crush on Deborah. What a babe and talented in so many ways. Clem Burke an underrated drummer, but he's awesome. Jimmy on Keys - great and there are some awesome bass riffs too. Chris Stein a very good guitarist, wished he showed off more, even though it might have detracted from the song.

That's weird. I always got the impression that Pete never liked Blondie or the genre in general of new wave. That's kinda cool. We already have the impression that he is absolutely no fan of 1990s Britpop or alternative rock groups as such, but perhaps he might surprise us again some day.

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

Not a fan of new wave in general, but Blondie I've always liked.

@aidenswords5809

Жыл бұрын

I dont think he'll b doin oasis or blur, thank god!

@misternewoutlook5437

Жыл бұрын

@@aidenswords5809 Maybe not them, but others like Mansun perhaps. Attack of the Grey Lantern might be his type of prog.

@treff9226

Жыл бұрын

@@aidenswords5809 God can't accept your thanks right now, he's busy jamming Oasis and Blur......can't hear you! Haha! He's got excellent taste, of course.

@treff9226

Жыл бұрын

@@misternewoutlook5437 So cool to see that Mansun album being mentioned - man, they were special and that album is a melodic gem! Nice!

If MTV debuted a few years earlier in Blondies prime, we would have been like "Madonna who"?

What do you think of their live album Picture This Live

It seems like some people need more bran in their diet. Great ranking, Pete! Here's mine: 1 Parallel Lines 2. Eat To the Beat 3. Autoamerican 4. No Exit 5. Hunter 6. Plastic Letters 7. Pollinator 8. Blondie 9. Curse of Blondie 10. Panic of Girls

@seaoftranquilityprog

Жыл бұрын

Yeah...never thought a Blondie ranking would create such a controversy...