Thanks for making all these awesome videos. After raising & releasing hundreds of monarchs over last few years in Central Florida, I finally invested in a small microscope to test for OE spores after hearing from other Florida butterfly people that they have all experiences a bad season of OE and sick butterflies. My first test case was a female and she was totally OE free and of course I was thrilled being that this is in Florida. The second was a male and I counted only 2 spores in the sample (using 100x mag). He looked healthy and strong so I released him after recalling that in your other video, I recall hearing that the females are more important to be OE free but then I watched this video and now am conflicted. There are a lot of differing opinions and hypotheses out there but I have not seen much in the way of factual evidence either way. With the population of monarchs being in jeopardy and Florida seemingly having endemic OE anyway, I am hoping that as per Darwin, the strong will survive & the mildly infected could pass on OE acquired resistance to their offspring over time so that it may look like an issue but its not. Other than the badly infected butterflies that will die anyway on their own or through euthanization, I am hesitant to interfere with others that are able to fly and enjoy their short lives. Wildlife management in general by humans has been proven to be disastrous time & time again. If we euthanize seemingly healthy butterflies with few spores, is that not a form of wildlife management based on an untested hypothesis?

@MrLundScience

4 жыл бұрын

You have indeed stumbled upon the controversy that does exist here, and why I tread lightly. ;-) The logic would follow that as I'm not an expert, I should defer to those with more knowledge than I. However, not all in that category agree, and some advice is in conflict. This usually indicates it's something science is still somewhat figuring out. However, one reason why there can be so much different information out there is that this is certainly a complex situation with multiple variables that factor in. So many variables, in fact, it's tough to give a region specific recommendation, and that's why I don't, and would rather the individual just have the information, and then come to their own choice. Speaking in general terms, which might be helpful, I am willing to say that the major focus of our efforts to battle OE should be that we do not want to *artificially* increase how much OE is in our area. Here in Michigan, OE is very sparse. I might get 1 out of every 50, and that's a maybe. In Michigan, where OE is so low in number, it would not be logical to increase the abundance. Now, in Florida, I have heard that OE is present in about 80% of the population. (Nice "endemic" vocab choice, by the way!) So, if someone's rearing Monarchs in Florida and they find that there is OE present in some of the individuals reared, provided it is below an endemic level, they would have a sound logical argument as to why they chose to release. And in those cases, though, someone may wish to ask, "How many OE spores is too many for such a release?" And for that type of question, there's definitely some major gray area. For me, while I wish it was a simple enough situation to provide some clearer answers, it just isn't and I can't. I hope that makes sense. Still, putting the thought into it, as you are, that's the goal of this video. To have people think about it so that they have a reason behind their choice.

Hi fellow Monarch lovers……I would like to thank this channel for sharing an abundance of valuable informative content. I would like to bring up something to think about…..Monarchs have done just fine with this O.E as well as many other bugs and predators of the wildlife nature. Living in the wild is not always kind, it is what it is. It’s my understanding Monarchs didn’t become endangered until humans started spraying harmful chemicals,and removing their natural habitats. We humans don’t always know the the outcome of our interference. In my opinion we should get out of the Monarchs way. Plant as much milkweed as possible,to let them propagate, but let them be. Further scientific research is always so sure in one moment until further research evolves to new conclusions. If the University breeding program starts with non infected adult males and females, then they will sway the genetic pool in a certain manner for better or for worse..Again, We humans don’t always know the the outcome of our interference. Just to let you all know, I grow Milkweed in many containers on two of my my patios here in LA, California . I check every year to see how many caterpillars there are and look for the many chrysalis. I do have to admit, I have moved a few wandering caterpillars back to a lush milkweed & another from a leafless plant to a thriving container. I have also saved a few from my playful kitty. I really enjoy seeing these beautiful creatures come and go, but I pretty much let them do their own thing.

Mark, Hello my name is Lisa and I live in Apollo bch Florida. And my whole life I have loved butterflies! But this year I made a butterfly garden in my back yard and got one female monarch that came along and started laying eggs left and right! Well I got excited. Well I had no idea how fast these Caterpillar could eat. I only had 2 milkweed plants and over 20 caterpillars. Well they all died and I learned my lesson. So I am regrowing those 2 plant on my porch along with a lot more milkweed plants. Next year I will be ready!! That one female monarch still visit me every few days!! 🐛😁🦋

I wish we could help adult butterflies rid themselves of the parasites

So listened to this video and think I have this problem. My plants are the tropical variety. I thought it was just a plant they came to,to feed. I didn't know they were host plants. A week later I had cats that I looked up and discovered that I had monarchs. Most became lizard fare. Then I discovered your videos. One made it to chrysalis. I protected it. I hovered, I was hooked! I even caught it starting its chrysalis. I successfully set her free. After a few days she laid eggs on her home plant. These are the cats I have now. The eggs hatched Easter morning. Waiting for a habitat. Now that I know about the spores, I won't put both plants together.

Very interesting. Where I'm at tropical milkweed is pretty much the only kind available. I recently found a different strain and cats i put on there will crawl over to the tropical as soon as their able. I was wondering why. Thanks so much

Euthanization isn't murder for those who think it is, Yes it does kill the butterfly, but its painless and they don't even notice, like would you rather euthanize your butterfly painlessly or have them die with their disease in pain. (im not sure if butterflies feel pain) but they'd definitely not like being killed by a disease.

I recently discovered your channel & enjoying the content. Thank you! I'm in Arizona and recently started planting a butterfly garden. I'm growing several varieties of native MW from seed (no tropical) as well as lots of nectar plants. I've got an enclosure ready and just trying to be ready for when/if I see a caterpillar. Planting fennel too, for the swallow tails. I remember as a girl seeing monarchs everywhere (in AZ) and they've always been my favorite, but tbh, I don't think I've seen one in years. To learn they're endangered got me motivated to start a garden, even though I'm horrible with plants. The thought of euthanizing a butterfly is a sad thought ... is there a humane way? Not sure I could do it, tbh. Can one tell just be looking without magnifying there are spores visible? Another question .. I'm already having issues with ants. Will stuff like cinnamon or coffee grounds harm or repel potential butterflies or caterpillars? I would like to repel the predators like wasps too. I know they serve their purposes but I'm absolutely terrified of them & don't want in my garden beds or near potential caterpillars. Recommendations? Tia! 🦋

I know you haven’t done a video on rearing and raising monarchs in a long time. I hope you are releasing them every year as I am and have been doing for many years. I don’t know what information recently you have discovered about OE. My question is, are they trying to find a way to make milkweed resistant to OE spores. I live in north Florida, most of my milkweed plants are tropical milkweed. I tried growing common milkweed here. It will only grow so much and then stops not like it does up north where it grows into tall plants. I have also managed to purchase calotropis gigantea milkweed seeds and have 1 plant growing for the last 2 years. It’s not a proficient grower like tropical though but the leaves are HUGE. Bigger then common milkweed and I’ve yet to have it flower

We should help them get rid of the parasites by getting to the source in the first place on how the Monarch contracts it. We need to save the monarch by trying to see how global warming weakens the monarch ability to be resistant to the parasites and also to prevent them from transmitting the parasites to other monarch butterflies.

I'm not a breeder but I don't get it when he says don't plant milkweed. That's the only thing butterflies eat.

Is there somewhere that I can find out how prevalent OE is in my region? I am in SW Pennsylvania. I am so glad that I discovered your videos. They are so full of great information and you present it in such an easy to understand way. Thank you so much.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ann. That's much appreciated. Typically, unless there's a small outbreak (which can happen anywhere), OE is more prevalent in areas that do not have a "winter purge" of their milkweed plants. If you have a winter where below freezing temperatures are persistent enough to kill off the milkweed stalks, that sort of hits the "reset" button on OE. While OE spores might be able to survive some freezing and below freezing temperature (severity of the temp, and the duration it's at that temp really would be what would determine if it survives or not) the stalks of the milkweed plants definitely do not. In such areas, in the spring, the old stalks are dead, but the root system survives, and new stalks sprout up. The new stalks, obviously, are OE free. Pennsylvania would be such a place, of course. Instead, OE has quite to foot hold in areas where milkweed is present year round, and especially in areas where Monarchs are present year round. These areas in the US are pretty much Florida, a few other southern areas, and the West Coast. In those areas, the milkweed stalks can survive these winter months, and the OE spores can remain dormant on them just fine. In areas where the Monarchs remain, that also means OE can continuously be spread. Usually, though, even those areas have a decline in it, as Monarchs aren't breeding at those times, so how much it is spreading reduces. But, there's a population in south Florida that also seems (from what people have reported to me) to continue to breed and lay eggs all year round. In those areas, the OE never gets reset, and so the OE has built up quite a lot in that area. I hope that answers your question. I suppose another way to know, though, would be in testing them out. When I first heard about OE and started testing, I had no idea how often I'd find it. There was only a small window of time where I knew about OE and tested for it, but hadn't started bleach treating my eggs/leaves. During that time, with no bleach treatment, I had 30 Monarchs I was able to test. Only 1 out of the 30 had OE. Wish I had a bit more data to use than just that for Michigan. As I only had one, I have no idea if I just was lucky with the other 29, or, more likely, that if data was continued to be collected, I'd have 50 or 100 or 1000 more Monarchs go through my process without OE before I found my second one. Would have been cool to get enough data to have found at least 10 with OE and compare that to how many did not have it, so I could have a better idea than just 1/30 with high uncertainty in that number. Still, once I knew how to bleach treat, I didn't want to not be doing it.

@grammyanns

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I am going to test this year because I had alot of things that happened that I had never had happen before. Then next year I will bleach. If I am lucky this year, I have 30 to release in the next few weeks.

I'm gonna do my best👍😄☺

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

People doing their best at whatever ethical deed they are attempting to accomplish is all we need, but often, need more of. Good luck!

Thank you so so much for these videos. You have helped my mom and I so much. We are in San Diego and we have 8 crysalides ready to go soon and 15 comin up behind them. How long will our mamas flitter around laying eggs in our area? I'm trying to find info.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Kc! Glad I could help your mother and you out. The videos are meant to be tools to help others give the Monarchs some helping hands, so thank you so much for putting them to use. As for your "mamas" and how long they will be laying eggs, to be honest, I'm not sure. As you are west of the Rockies, we deal with different populations. But, to my understanding, if they are laying eggs for you now, they'll be doing it throughout all of the upcoming months until around the fall season. Again, that's not a prediction from experience, but only from looking up the migratory cycles of the other populations. Good luck on the upcoming (or for you, the current) season!

@BonnieBraeNZ

6 жыл бұрын

Umm... I think that San Diego is WEST of the Rockies... Maybe a typo?

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Yep. Late night typo. Thanks for the catch!

I'm now pondering this question myself... I'm down in South Florida so you know OE is pretty rampant down here... despite that fact I'm certain that if proper sanitation methods with both eggs and food sources are maintained then I should be able to release OE free butterflies, but... I'm wondering what is the point? For example I've heard... maybe though your video that parts of SoFla have 100% infestation... so even if OE free butterflies are released it's only a matter of time before they come in contact and become infested themselves?

I have 2 milkweed plants, each with caterpillars. On one the cats are much bigger and appear healthy. The other the cats look like they are dying. Both plants bought at the same place and time. The only difference is one plant was small enough for me to put in a homemade enclosure. I am waiting on a 36 " habitat.

Mr Lund do you know if other insects that eat milkweed can also get OE? Like Aphids and Milkweed beetle etc.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

To my knowledge (and I'm pretty sure about this one) OE can only affect the Monarch butterfly, and the Queen butterfly, which share common evolutionary lineage. Likely, OE was parasitizing the common ancestor that Monarchs and Queens share, and OE evolved with both species.

Fantastic educational video! Of note, Dr Taylor only recommended testing every monarch for breeders. Those of us raising wild-found eggs and caterpillars and releasing eclosed adults are not breeding monarchs.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Ian, I don't think you're being fair here. While you are correct that in the video, Dr. Taylor states that breeders need to test every Monarch for OE, that does not imply whatsoever that he is stating that those who are raising them from the wild do not need to be checking for OE. That's like saying that when the officer came to talk about drugs with the kids at a school and said that they should never try meth, crack, or heroin, that because the officer never stated they shouldn't try PCP, that means the officer is condoning PCP use. Not specifically stating something doesn't mean that the opposite is presumed true, and just because Dr. Taylor didn't specifically state that those raising Monarchs from the wild should test for OE, doesn't mean he doesn't feel that they should be. It's misleading to imply that. Prior to interviewing Dr. Taylor, I spoke with him through email. He was well aware of what my videos show, and that I raise Monarchs from the wild, and that those viewing my videos do the same. He was well aware of my video on testing for OE parasites. In other words, he knows both the context of the situation, and the intended audience, that being, those who raise Monarchs from wild found eggs. In that context, he clearly stated the following, from 10:36 to about 11:09: "Alright, the question is, what should we do about butterflies that are infested with spores? Well, you have all of these modes of transmission. All of these ways in which spores are transferred horizontally and vertically through the system. That spreads the infestation. That spreads the infection. That spreads the disease, and that increases the mortality rate associated with the disease. Do we want that? I don't think so. My preference then would be to euthanize those butterflies. Even those that have a relatively small number of spores." He makes it quite clear in that above quote that whether the Monarchs are from a breeding program, or from the wild, he's not differentiating between those two - he's including them together as Monarchs that have been raised by humans in a rearing program. And he has made it clear that those infested, he feels, should be euthanized rather than released. It easily stands to reason that yes, since he prefers no Monarchs with OE be released, obviously we would need to be checking them for OE in order to determine that in the first place.

@GoddardsJournal

6 жыл бұрын

The distinction between breeders vs from-wild raisers slipped my attention in the past, so I felt it was relevant to note that he's only referred to breeders. I disagree with your interpretation that he means to say we should test all too. But I'm perfectly willing to accept that he does believe that, if he says that. But for some reason he only specified breeders. Seems like a good follow-up question would be clarifying that. Your example of context is not about the _scope of testing_ but of what to do with a positive-test case. I don't take that to mean he's saying all raisers should test every monarch. But clearly he's one of the exerts who sided with euthanasia, and given that, it would not be inconsistent for him to believe every monarch should be tested. But we're inferring that as well.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Let me revise a bit and clarify... I too do not say that Dr. Taylor insists we test every Monarch, should we choose not to. He never made that claim. I'm willing to guess based upon conversations with him that he'd be comfortable and understanding if someone chooses to raise Monarchs from wild caught eggs, but also chooses to not test for OE and release "blind", so to speak. He definitely feels, though, that if there is indication that there is OE present, that testing should occur. So, if say you're raising a group of Monarchs and one of the chrysalides is showing signs of OE (sometimes, this could be discoloration near the abdomen, or a chrysalis that starts with such discoloration and never ecloses) then that indicates an OE outbreak may be occurring. In that case, testing for OE would be the responsible thing to do, and in such a case, infested Monarchs should be euthanized. What I stand by fully is what I said near the end of the video, and quoted Dr. Altizer with. There's no strict rule on the matter. I think people should come to their own decision on the issue, but hopefully, it is after consideration of what the experts are saying. As long as the decision is made in an informed way, I know I'm comfortable with that. And whatever their decision is, there's likely an expert who would be supporting that decision. When I made the first video on testing for OE, I stated simply that infected Monarchs should be euthanized. That was based upon the advice from monarchwatch.org and at the time, I was not aware of the slight controversy of the issue. Upon learning much more, I'm more inclined that people should also learn more, and consider the options, and make a decision that they are comfortable with. I don't wish to take down or edit the original video, though, as I feel it still contains the current and pertinent advice of Monarch Watch. However, my follow up videos could be seen as a further clarification. I hope that we did not get off on a bad foot. Perhaps we did. But I think that's over now. I think we're seeing eye to eye much more. Know that even where we may disagree, I still fully respect the opinions I disagree with. I don't claim to be any authority on the matter. The only thing I insist, if anything, is that people make decisions after informing themselves, regardless of what that decision ends up being. And just to go on record with it, if people are being silenced solely for unpopular opinions on the issue, that's a shame. I only ended up learning more on this issue because people were questioning it. In the end, I still have come to the same conclusion, but it's a much more informed conclusion. I'm more knowledgeable because of it. I would hope that others wouldn't fear or discourage questioning. It only leads to healthy discussion when done in a civil manner, and is one of the most important aspects of the scientific process.

@GoddardsJournal

6 жыл бұрын

Sorry if I came off abrasive. My misunderstanding about held comments didn't help, which caused me to get unnecessarily upset. Ya, setting comments to to Approve is a good idea because Creator Studio does not inform you of replies to comments, because they're not hoisted up to the top of the list of recent comments. But the Approve setting forces even comment replies to be hoisted to the top of the listing. I often check out a comment of mine on a video and find scores of replies to it that I was never made aware of.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

No worries. Misunderstanding happen. We're all good. And as stated, I've enjoyed our discussion.

Thank you very much for all your video's. I wondered if you knew when we should start looking for Monarch eggs here in Northern, Mi. We live in Cheboygan, which is about 15 miles just south of Mackinaw City and the Bridge. It is June 7th. We are just getting our Milk Weed growing up here. Just saw our first Milkweed last week. Most plants are only 6-7 inches tall right now. We also have not seen any Monarch's yet either. I know we are behind normal this year. Just wondering if you would know. Thanks again, Kim Faircloth

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Danny. You could definitely see a Monarch by now. Usually, they are up in our area by May. However, they aren't great in number. They are currently laying the eggs that will be the generation that we will see in much greater numbers. I once found a chrysalis at the Detroit Zoo in late June, which definitely shows that at least one female Monarch was there by early June or late May. For my own egg hunting, while I have found them in late June plenty of times, I also know that it's not worth much effort until the first week of July. I use July 4th as my own personal "it's on" day (though I usually go out the day after). I have spent a good 5 hours out in the field, checking milkweed spots I know about in late June, only to come out with two or three (or no) eggs. If I spend the same time in the first week of July at the same spots, I can usually find 20 - 30 eggs.

@kimberlyfaircloth2234

6 жыл бұрын

MrLundScience. Thanks that is going to help us a lot. We have a trail system that is full of Milkweed and we found a bunch in the sand dunes off of the Straits. We weren't very successful last year. I just started by watching your KZread videos on raising Monarchs. It was mid August though. And we only found 3 eggs and one tiny caterpillar. Only one J hung and stopped 3/4 of they way shedding his skin. We saw the chrysalis but it didn't finish shedding the skin and it fell off the top of the cage after a couple of days. The other two just died. One was small still but the other one was big. They stopped eating and the next morning they were dead sitting on a leaf. We felt bad but I have no idea why. Anyway, we are looking forward to it this summer. Hoping we have better luck. If you have any idea what might had happened we would appreciate your feedback. Thanks again. Danny & Kim

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

That sounds like an infection of some type, but it's tough to know for sure what specific infection. If the caterpillars, after dying turned black, it's likely the virus NPV. If instead, they felt deflated and squishy, but didn't turn black, it could be OE, but usually that signals a bacterial infection. It also, though, could be pesticides that were on leaves they were fed. Pesticides can be sprayed and it's possible enough is sprayed by surrounding homes to have a high enough concentration on nearby milkweed to cause some caterpillar death. It's tough to say, though. At any rate, hopefully this season you'll have better luck, and I certainly hope the videos provide some helpful information.

@kimberlyfaircloth2234

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I will be sure to wash the leaves. I watched your video on prevention and will follow your advice.

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

No problem. Good luck!

What do u think is going on?

Why couldn’t we feed them ivermectin?

Balls! I wish the OE stuff would have been the first videos I watched 😵 Butterfly momma & possible grim reaper. F

@MrLundScience

6 жыл бұрын

I raised Monarchs for a good three years before I knew there was such a parasite. Helping them out can be simple, but there's a world of complexity that is there too, if one chooses to explore it. When I first met the idea of raising Monarchs, it was a book. Now, I see it's a library. It's an ocean a fly can sip from, or an elephant can bathe in.