The long awaited video that I finally put together. But now I want to know: Do you think there was a difference? Let's keep the discussion friendly!

When it comes to electric guitars there's no such thing as "tone woods". All there is is just harder woods and softer woods. The harder woods are better because they don't absorb the vibration of the strings too much at the nut and bridge, which allows all the energy in the strings to be transmitted to the magnets of the pickups, and keeps the sound clean and crisp. Softer woods create a dampening effect, absorbing more of the string vibrations at the nut and especially at the bridge, reducing the energy left available to go into the pickups, and rounding off the transient frequencies which are absorbed at a higher rate than lower frequencies, which in turn results in a more muffled sound which is interpreted as "warm". Since the "warm" sound can be achieved electronically by removing the transients (very high frequencies) during the amplification stage, it follows that the harder the material the better. For electric guitars, rigidity is excellency. The crisp and clarity of the transient frequencies cannot be added electronically in the amplification stage because amplification can only SUBTRACT, it cannot ADD, so the only way to get those transient frequencies is with the most rigid materials possible. That's why all-titanium or all-aluminum electric guitars sound so good and are so expensive: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZJl5pI-veszJj9I.html kzread.info/dash/bejne/lnl-rMeHpbTJk5M.html

I listened with my eyes closed, and if there were differences in sound, they were so subtle, to me, that it basically ends the debate regarding tone wood for electric guitars. Its just not worth getting my panties in a bunch over tone wood. I think it makes a larger difference on acoustic instruments, so carry on the debate there, if there is one.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

I agree, like I said in the video, even I got confused. The differences -if there were any- were hard to come by. I still however stand behind the whole "recipe" analogy, however minute. While yes, of course tone wood is mostly an attribute to associate with acoustics, I do think it makes a difference, but on a muuuuch more granular level. I still put method of construction in electrics much more at the forefront rather than woods used. So set neck vs. bolt-on vs. neck-through.

@superlead1002

11 ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars Yes to all of that!

My research as a luthier in training is that tonewood sort of applies to acoustics, but has basically nothing to do with electrics. Not on personal taste, I almost always prefer cheaper pick ups. I feel like they sound closer to the spirited guitars of old.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

Totally get it. Yes, tone wood naturally of course started with acoustics and there makes THE difference. However, I still firmly stand with the recipe analogy :) tone is made up of everything to do with the instrument. That being said, I put more weight into the actual construction method over wood choice

@EbonyPope

Ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars Yeah but the difference is really negligible. Also some factors you can't control. Pots vary in their resistance values sometimes quite a bit. Did you measure them? That could explain slightly more highs etc. Also what makes HUGE differences and what people overlook besides strings and nut is what you are holding in your hand: The pick! Just using a wooden one compared to a metal one is like night and day.

@IPGuitars

Ай бұрын

Absolutely agreed. The pot differences I tried to eliminate by using the exact same wiring loom in each guitar, so I wouldn't be putting in different parts to have some modicum of control. I only know how to play in a certain way and the bridge is the same, so my hand placement should also be the same here.

@EbonyPope

Ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars Yeah the problem is the fluctuations the manufacturer allows. However a great test. I think I'll mention it the next time I comment of Glenn Fricker's videos about that issue.

@fulviosanna

16 сағат бұрын

The only way the wood can affect the tone is by resonance,( moving air creating different frequencies coming to our ears).What we hear when playing an electric guitar has nothing to do with moving air.Pick ups are not microphones...what we hear comes from a magnetic field disturbed by vibrating steel strings creating an electric signal converted and amplified by the amp. But I'm open to change my mind if someone could provide a serious and scientific explanation of how a magnetic device can pick up and detect resonance from the vibration of the woods making air movement and creating resonance resulting in a different tone.

I think the most valuable part of a guitar is the neck, followed by the hardware then finally the pickups.

@escapegulag4317

6 ай бұрын

not for sound. fretwire and bridge material, pickups and strings affect the tone, the rest does not affect the tone. body resonance translates 0% into pickups.

Great video! I'd be very interested to see a spectrographic analysis of all the signals. I could *barely* hear a difference between all the clean tones. Like, if I closed my eyes and listened really carefully, I could kind of tell you had switched guitars, but I couldn't really qualify what the change was? It sounded to me like the change in tonewood was making very small volume changes to a broad range of frequencies and harmonics, rather than adding any big spikes. And then, of course, with gain all of those subtle differences just get compressed right out and it sounds more or less the same. I think the ultimate question in the tonewood debate is this: how practical is it to pursue one tonewood over another? For my playstyle and musical tastes, the answer is no, not really. Not for the sake of tone, anyway. Feel, ergonomics, and reliability are much more important factors for me in selecting an instrument, and the materials selection *can* make a difference in those areas, but for some reason that fact gets less attention than the tone.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

Totally agree and I wish I would have done a lot more with this test. Gone A LOT deeper into the analysis of things. The spectrograph would've been an ideal thing to take into account and use. And I totally agree, the more I've listened to each clip the less I hear the differences, BUT let it be said that my shoddy playing every time doesn't really help either to provide any consistency. The gain definitely just didn't make a difference at all. And I totally agree with your thoughts on pursuing tonewoods. Personally I tend go against the grain anyway with wood choices (pun slightly intended), but that's also more due to favoring domestic woods. Chasing the exact same woods as everyone else is also not great from a sustainability point of view. I will always say that the actual construction plays into the tone more so than the woods used (and of course every other "ingredient" as mentioned in the video). And I am with you 100%, but the human brain is a peculiar thing. I think our own preferences have played into thinking that certain woods sound better, when it just could be that a certain feel and construction have been the cause for the instrument feeling great to play. Thank you for your comment and thoughts on the matter :)

Wonder if you could take and put tuners pickups etc and fasten everything to a piece of stiff rubber that totally dampens any vibration or resonance that you get from wood and do a test with it n see what sort of sound one could get from it. Just a thought.

@IPGuitars

3 ай бұрын

Provided that you get the string tension the exact same. Technically that could be tested by putting rubber washers under the tuners, string trees (if any), under and around the nut, under the bridge, and surrounding the pickups as well. But then again, the same concept here applies as the guy who clamped up everything in between two benches. That was more-or-less isolating things to a bolt-on + pickguard mounted electronics + floating bridge level.

@lookingbehind6335

Ай бұрын

Already been done many times. kzread.info/dash/bejne/oGRm1qumk8iZcag.htmlfeature=shared

Personally I think once you make sure your pickups are in the exact same place, they have the same height, the electronics are the same and the nut and bridge are the same, the woods won't make a damned bit of difference. Jim Lill's video, which was by far the most scientific I've seen, convinced me of that. Even if there is a slight difference you wouldn't be able to hear it in a band environment. This is only for electric instruments of course. I used to play violin and the particular instrument made a HUGE difference, even though the design of all violins is very similar. In general I found that aged instruments tend to sound better. I had a 100+ year old violin and 200+ year old violin and both sounded far better than any other modern violin I'd ever played. I'm guessing the same is true of acoustic guitars, but I've only really owned one so I can't comment too much on it.

@IPGuitars

5 ай бұрын

I agree with you on most parts. On acoustic instruments there is ZERO speculation, wood tone is a real thing there. However, as mentioned I am more a keen advocate for construction method over materials used. Which is why I also take some issue with Jim Lill's video. Let me elaborate: In Lill's video we see a case-study of a bolt-on instrument with a suspended pickup (be it a pickguard/bridge plate). The transfer of resonance in this construction method will vary greatly to that of a set-neck/neck-through instrument with direct mounted pickups. I am not saying that either mine nor his videos are ABSOLUTE truths. This is an extremely difficult thing to actually research properly as the ever so subtle differences between test materials cannot allow for proper scientific testing. Which results in the debate we see online :) I did state in the video that whether or not you can hear a difference, I believe that the tone of an instrument is the sum of all of its parts. Disregarding the player and hand-tone for a moment. At the end of the day, you will gravitate toward the instrument that makes you want to play. And that is the only thing that matters in the end. If the guitar sounds good to you, then good. Might be made of this or that, but that's the only absolute truth :D

@EbonyPope

Ай бұрын

Yeah wood ages and the resins harden over time. They definitely change their tone also over time as these beautiful instruments age. That is why wood is still the most popular building material. It evolves over time.

Great video, here's my opinion There were little differences here and there, but Im pretty sure a little turn of the bass knob would make a much bigger difference than buying a new expensive guitar. Besides, if every wood sounds unique, then why buy the more expensive ones? Also, now im interested in why jim lill had no difference in his video. I wonder whether you or him made some mistakes. Either way, im not buying an ultra-expensive guitar while i can get another that sounds the same for much much cheaper.

@IPGuitars

22 күн бұрын

Might be that there were small differences, but I'll still attribute most to the whole picture with emphasis on construction. Incredibly hard thing to test for, but I have ideas... we'll see if they come to fruition. Now to address a couple of things: Why buy the expensive ones? Essentially the more expensive stuff (while they might be made of more expensive materials) boils down to craftsmanship. For instance anything made by hand will cost more due to the hours of actual labour put in ($/h). The more skilled or renowned a craftsman becomes, the more value is added to their work (more years experience at a job=better pay). That is 100% the case with the smaller luthiers and workshops out there, but also within the custom departments at bigger brands (though let's be fair, if it gets a stamp on the headstock from Gibson/Fender etc. it'll hike up the price even more so). You should get a guitar that inspires you. That's all it REALLY boils down to. If a cheaper guitar makes you want to play and feels great, then that is awesome. Collecting guitars is another thing, but not gonna get into. And then there is wanting a guitar from a certain maker to support their craft. Whatever floats your boat, as long as you pick up a guitar and pluck away :) Then about Jim Lill's video, which is a great video, but I do have my issues with it. He took a bolt-on design, with pickups installed so that they are suspended (pickguard/bridge) and bolted strings and the bridge onto two other surfaces. At face value when it comes to the string interacting with the pickup and resonance carrying over, he changed nothing/very little. I would love to see the same done, but with a set neck/through-neck with direct-mounted pickups. These three construction methods clearly have a different sound to them. Even with just pickups installed in a pickguard/surrounds, if you pit a bolt-on and set-neck together with the same parts, they will sound different with the bolt-on giving a bit more "twang" to the sound. I would love to recreate what I described, and perhaps one day will, but need the time and resources to make it happen in a much more controlled way than in this video. Thank you for your comment! Always great to hear different opinions on this matter 👍🏼

The tonewood hypothesis is that some species of trees produce wood that is bright. Or that is warm. And some species of trees produce wood that is just dead and sound bad. The tonewood hypothesis has nothing to do with individual guitars sounding different. Or even that the piece of wood has an effect on the sound of the guitar. The theory is that it is the species of tree that matters. Not the individual piece of wood. Not the individual guitar build. And that when you make a recipe for your guitar, you select the right tonewood aka tree species. Also always absent in these videos is a way to mathematically quantify the sound of the guitar. Ise a Fourier transfer to fingerprint the sound. And then use statistics to measure similarity.

@IPGuitars

4 ай бұрын

Pretty much. It's an annoyingly complicated thing to try and actually properly mathematically and scientifically quantify. I recently came up an idea of how this could be researched in a controlled manner, but the method is completely out of reach for someone like me. Might make a video to share my thoughts and see if I can connect with the appropriate people in the field to conduct the experiment and research. While yes, woods by themselves can be measured and trialed to figure out resonant frequencies that addition of the different parts that make up a guitar (without the human element) make it tricky to quantify.

Clean tone, I think I could hear a difference, the lower right seemed the least interesting to me. But on the dirty tone they were all very similar to me. For me, wood makes a difference in how I feel the vibration of the strings, or how they sound unplugged. But plugged in, good tone is a great pair of pups.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

Yeah, the high gain just... made everything sound exactly the same. MAAAYBE slight differences in coil split tones, but we're splitting hairs because we're actively trying to listen for differences. And completely with you on the feel. And at the end of the day, a guitar that FEELS great in your hands to play, will also affect how it sounds as you are much more likely to play more relaxed. Hand tone is a big part. Which is why tests like this will ultimately boil down to "inconclusive".

Testing tonewood under high gain is pointless. Distortion, by definition, changes the signlal. The clean test is all you need in my opinion. There was clearly a difference between them in your clean test, and I believe it was an extremely fair and well performed test. In my humble opinion however, it's also fair to include in the debate, the physical resonance of the wood that allows vibration you can feel in your hands and against your body. That kind of connection to your instrument is going to influence your tone as well. It might effect the way you set your amp or the kind of music you decide to play. A dense low resonance guitar with tons of paint and clear, and super hot humbuckers, might be fine for metal all day long, but chances are it won't Inspire you to turn off the gain and enjoy the warm natural sounds of the Instrument. But if you pick up a sweet super resonant semi hollow, for example, your probably not going to rush right Into a Slayer medley! Why is the way a guitar vibrates in your hands, of such little importance In the Tonewood debate. As a player who will probably never record seriously, and may only perform to 20 or 30 people in my life, I don't really care how my guitars sound In the mix. And as a player who spends plenty of time playing unplugged as my family watches a movie or plays a game, the way my guitars feel is of almost ultimate importance to me. I suspect that there are thousands and thousands of players like me out there.

@IPGuitars

Ай бұрын

Completely agree with the distortion being somewhat pointless, but I also know my demographic somewhat😅 had to be included, just to cover the bases. I whole-heartedly want to revisit this one, in a more structured and informative way than I did in this video. I feel like a lot was overlooked and not explored further due to lack of time and being sleep deprived. A lot of great points here! This is a topic that is damn near impossible to study perfectly, but I do have an idea on how to answer a lot of these questions. I just might not have the funds or means of measurement to get it done, but at the very least I can pitch the idea and see if someone else can do the practicalities with proper resources. "TONE" in itself, as you said, is subjective.. well "good tone" is anyway. At the end of the day, you will pick up the guitar that indeed inspires you to play. I've had many guitars which spec-wise I should love, but didn't feel right and therefore got much less play.

I think change of musician would produce more of a differnce than I could pick up (no pun..), at least when listening from the PC speakers. I'm a shitty bass player and I change tone quite a lot by changing where, and how, I play. Two guys I was playing with, some years ago, had the same gear, Strat and Vox pedal board. One of them complained about not getting a good sound. The other guy decided to help out. Before doing anything he played a few chords and some lead stuff. Sounded amazing.. In a series of program some years ago here in Sweden a group of proffesional musicians were put to the thest of spotting the cheap instrument when the same (skilled) musician played the same peace of music behind a curtain. For instance a real Stradivarius was compared with a "school violin.".Stradivarius costing a gazzillion and the school violin about 50 euros. Or a genuin -59 Gibson Les Paul and a cheap copy. The "jury" consisted of really good musicians, classicly trained and with good standing internationally. In a couple of instanses they were embarrased to not being sure of when the "original" and when the cheap copy was being played. In all cases they had a hard time calling out the correct one as being cheap in most test cases. But, of course, the feeling of any expensive equipment is always "priceless". I guess the debate will continue.

@IPGuitars

2 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree. If someone even half decent would be playing these things (with a proper amplifier and such) the results might be different. The "blind comparison" videos have been something I absolutely love (Andertons, TwoSet violin among my favorites), because they give great insight into the price tag no being a determining factor (OR as with TwoSet and violins) the results being DRASTICALLY different.

Given all the playing is different, I think all your results are within margin of error.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

Totally agree. So I guess that leaves "the big picture"

You look like age of empires 2 player The Viper

@IPGuitars

2 ай бұрын

😂had to Google that one

The ash bodies have a brighter clearer sound than the mahogany

@lookingbehind6335

Ай бұрын

I really hope you are trolling.

Is it an Acoustic Guitar? Wood makes ALL the difference. Is it an electric guitar? Then it makes NO difference at all apart from the feel in your hands and what it looks like.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

100% hands down agree with acoustics. But I do have to say that even with electrics, it does play a part. While yes, fractional in comparison, the tone is a sum of all its parts.

@Tech-xm8vg

11 ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars Tone is definitely altered by different things and parts such as pickups, pickup height, string contact points such as the bridge, if there's any ferrous metals near the pickup, anything that can affect the magnetic field really but we will have to agree to disagree on the electric guitars tonewood thing - I think the wood makes zero difference as they are electric guitars and the sound is purely electrically generated, that's why they are called electric guitars.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

We can agree to disagree yes :) But I completely get your point of view nonetheless. Also, thanks for adding to the conversation👍🏻

Here's the thing no one really talks about. If "tonewood" is a thing, and wood affects the tone of a guitar then...wait for it...ALL wood is "tonewood". You can't say that wood affects the tone of a guitar and then claim that only certain woods effect the tone of the guitar. Either wood affects the tone or it doesn't. But that's what tonewood afficianatos claim, that only certain woods are "tonewood". That in itself creates the mythical quality to the term tonewood. Not only that, you can't predict it. Tone can be different in the same species of wood from tree to tree and region to region. My guess is, the "tone" impact from wood is simply due to the different density of wood.

@IPGuitars

Ай бұрын

THIS! You hit the nail right on its head. It quite literally makes my blood boil any time I hear the "you can't make an instrument out of this wood" and the holy Mahogany-Maple-Rosewood trinity. And also right that the biggest difference really is the density (and moisture content) of the wood. While I adhere to "it all being a part of the recipe" I in no way sign off on only some woods being acceptable. Hell, a guitar I made years ago sounded AMAZING and it had a birch body, oak top, holm oak fretboard, and a neck made of scrap mahogany skirting boards.

@JayceAllanGuitar

Ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars I’d think guitar makers would want to experiment with different woods. I think guitars were made from the holy trinity of tonewood and that simply became what people expected.

@IPGuitars

Ай бұрын

Fortunately, in the last few years experimentation has become more common and slowly but surely the guitar community is moving away from "If it ain't made like it was in the 50's and 60's, it ain't a good guitar." Funnily enough, it's been bass players who've always been more experimental.

Slash says so. So I’m not gonna disagree with him lol

@lookingbehind6335

Ай бұрын

He also thought he was playing a Gibson instead of a Chibson. His opinion might not be the best advice.

There's absolutely tonal differences between woods used in solid body electric guitars but unlike acoustic guitars, it is so minor as to be negligible. People who think they can hear major differences must have way better hearing than mine😂The pickups make the most obvious difference to tone but it's not the whole story. My take is that it is too difficult to really assign any one particular thing as its a combination of many factors going into creating the sound. But in my experience, tone woods are over rated.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

Whole-heartedly agreed.

Wow , such a regurgitated subject… !

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

...and?🤷🏼‍♂️ You still clicked on it, so clearly interesting enough.

@notsure1135

10 ай бұрын

At least he didn’t yell the whole time…

I am disappointed that the importance of a double blind testing is not even mentioned. The main difference in the tone here are introduced by the player who knows which guitar he is playing, so he plays differently.

@IPGuitars

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely a great point. As proven by listening through and clearly making mistakes in my guesses.

@GianmarioScotti

5 ай бұрын

thank you for your reply. @@IPGuitars Would you consider doing a single-blind test at least, where at least you don't know which guitar you're playing? Have someone put the instrument in your hands while you're blindfolded.

@IPGuitars

5 ай бұрын

This is something I would love to do for sure at some point and probably will. Those are some of my favorite videos from the Andertons channel actually. But the thing is, I doubt I'll be able to play anything blindfolded haha

@lookingbehind6335

Ай бұрын

Watch Glen at Spector Sound Studio. He has blind tested many times. He also got the same results every time, 99.5 % failure rate. Proving the point that guitarist play with their eyes first.

Didn't Will Gelvin put this to rest? Guitar maker and no BS. But i get it. We all think that if something is made of different wood it should sound different. But its electric and not acoustic. Don't we already have tone knobs on our guitars. How many pedals do we all have to get different effects or to get the tone we want. We start to lose ourselves once you start adding in that stuff anyway except on clean tones. And its super minor anyway. Now feel is super different. I guess if you the feel the weight, softness or hardness of the wood and different strings that can also give you feel and comparing that to tone then we can be onto something. Thats in our mind though. But its electric. Mho.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

"Feel"

Theres litterally no debate. Tonewood makes a very small almost unnoticeable difference. The most significant tonewood being what the neck is made from. As all of yours use the same material for the neck you probably won't notice much.

@gluteusmaximus1657

11 ай бұрын

I guess you never build a guitar - did you? As a former luthier i would never recommend beech, oak or balsa for a guitar. Some timber just soaks up the tone and others would not resonate! If you process your tone through a long chain of effects, you might get the same sounds from every material, even from styrofoam or cardboard. On one point you are right! A maple neck will give at least some sound. Chipboard body + maple neck = Epiphone, entry level for example.

@IPGuitars

11 ай бұрын

And as a luthier who has made guitars with oak tops (and one fretboard) or beech in a neck or body, they sounded actually pretty damn great. Bog oak (when it comes up) is used a fair bit in some luthier circles and I've come across a good few examples of beech in necks (most notably Paul McCartney's violin bass). And while I wouldn't recommend it, for one guitar the only wood I used was pine for everything and it sounds WILDLY different to other guitars I have. But I know you were just making a point, just wanted to point out those two woods as being used for guitars :) your point is still valid. Again, I want to point out construction. Take a bolt-on neck combined with 100% pickguard mounted electronics and a floating bridge (a lá a Strat). The resonance would not carry in the same way as a set neck with direct mounted pickups and a hardtail bridge for example. A good example is the cardboard strat Fender made a few years back. Oddly enough, to some extent it still sounds like a strat..

@gluteusmaximus1657

11 ай бұрын

Thanx for your explanation, indeed! I know quite a few things about the Hofner Basses, since i originate from that region. Hofner wanted to use domestic timbers. Beech is known for exceptional strength. Since Höfner did produce a whole array of musicial instruments, the well seasoned maple was rather valuable to them.They used it on their more expensive models. Höfner eventually changed the necks to maple on the Model 500 (Beatles bass)back to maple. The Hofner logo changed too.Electric guitars started with fully functional acoustic instruments that got retrofitted with pu's to hold up with modern loud music, while getting amplified. The earlier Höfner guitars /basses like solid bodies may change in wood from plywood to solid and from maple to poplar. If you get your hands on one of the earlier models, please check! I've seen even solids made from spruce or other unusual wood. Sorry for disturbing your channal on YT. Have a nice day.@@IPGuitars

@Bikeadelic

11 ай бұрын

@@IPGuitars 100% construction will make an even bigger difference

@Bikeadelic

11 ай бұрын

@gluteusmaximus1657 I think ypu replied to the wrong comment mate I didn't suggest any specific materials???

kzread.info/dash/bejne/oGRm1qumk8iZcag.htmlfeature=shared This should clear things up for people.