wonderful morbid ending

"Mining is the scouts job" they say about a nerf to a weapon for the driller class, named after drillers, who famously mine and drill stuff. Those drillers.

"Mining is the Scout's job" No, it's everyone's job. While the Scout is designed to be good at reaching stuff that's on the ceiling or walls, there's no reason to pretend the Scout is the only character with a pickaxe.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. People make the argument a lot, though.

@ascended8174

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, you'd only TCF mine something if you couldn't reach it with your pick, so I think people say that under that presumption

@skii_mask_

2 жыл бұрын

as scout I specifically leave ground level stuff for others and only go for high up items at first to make sure nothing is left behind. if I finish all of it, THEN I'll go for ground items.

@borgar_pizza_cat

2 жыл бұрын

Mining is everyone's job, but Scout's job is mining minerals that can't be reached by grounded teammates. You're missing the point here

@Brahlam

2 жыл бұрын

Have to meet one person saying that. Scout is for mining minerals that are unreachable or difficult to reach. And that often alone, without plattform, THAT makes a good scout. That you can mine any position when it is needed. To get Nitra as quick as possible for a saving supply drop. This is why the scout is essential in higher difficulties, and playing without becomes much much harder, as it is much more difficult to get nitra for other classes in the same time. Especially in 5... you fight against the clock of getting overrun.

I still epc mine. Now ill put the whole team to work trying to find them. Have fun with the update. 😈

@JesseTribby

3 жыл бұрын

This is the way drillers should think ... chaotic neutral ... everything solved with explosions

@bastion6421

3 жыл бұрын

You must hide all gunk seeds in every game

@schadenfreude7812

2 жыл бұрын

I do that too. Scouts can use their mobility then. Drillers mine, Scouts gather. Simple as

@Milkman-bu9es

2 жыл бұрын

My favorite thing to do is to EPC things my teammates are already mining lmao

@LordRazer3

2 жыл бұрын

Was once a useful member of the team but now am a troll

I really wish that they'd return it to the early form you showed. The scatter there seems reasonable, They should never have changed it to drop in a single stack.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I started playing last March, so by the time I got to the point where I was EPC mining, it had already been changed to the nice neat pile. I was surprised to see how reasonable it was originally, and it makes the current iteration even more confusing.

@megawl2086

2 жыл бұрын

epc containment field is implosion

EPC mining also helps with the oil shales spots that just hard to reach and it was so convenient back then to have them piled neatly and you suck them faster.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

It definitely made escort less painful.

@Hrrrrrrrrrreng

Жыл бұрын

@@DrillingInTheNameOf you can always drill out the dirt holding up the oil shale, or in it’s current state it’s not too bad. Doesn’t fly across the room as much anymore

Half a year down the line, and it still seems like the core issue is traversal; not mining speed. The only way for me as a driller to get ceiling resources if the engineer is missing or a doofus remains EPC mining, but, now with added annoyance. This change didn't fix the issue that I feel that, since I know how to use it accurately, TCF is the only useful and realistic build option. Maybe making HE grenades dig terrain would change this core problem, but maybe it wouldn't.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

I still use TCF for large items and downed teammates, but if you want to try a purely combat build, give 1.2.3.2.3 with Heavy Hitter a shot! Classic damage build and super effective.

@Habanecro

Жыл бұрын

bruh imagine if they reworked HE grenades to just be TCF grenades, maybe with a bit more damage than the weapon mod. give players 8 of them like impact axes so they can use em liberally. now the worst grenade in the game is actually appealing and drillers have an option for long-range mining without having to use the EPC. ez money

@CthuluSpecialK

Жыл бұрын

@@Habanecro This is actually a brilliant idea.

@crazyphrenic

5 ай бұрын

I just want to mention, in the description of TCF it says: "[...]will destabilize the charged projectile, causing a large area implosion.". So to add a bit of flavour to the solution that DrillingInTheNameOf mentioned, I think it should pull the minerals towards itself instead of away from it, due to the mentioned implosion. They could even add a neat little animation where the minerals swirl around the center of the explosion for a fraction of a second before being dispersed.

At the end of your video. I would suggest the opposite/mirrored direction. Because it is an "implosion"/vacuum, shooting the right side of the vein should make it go right, etc

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Fair point!

@ninjaone1

3 жыл бұрын

If the game is going to treat it like an explosion, we might as well too lol

I dislike EPC mining despite playing a lot of driller myself. The reason for that is that EPC mining is (obviously) tied to a specific weapon. Gunplay-wise I like the Subata and the EPC equally and often switch between them. One gives me consistent long range damage against moving targets while the other one gives me raw killing power, but because EPC mining is a thing I give up a big utility by using the Subata, which just feels unfair. My weapon choice shouldn't influence non-combat scenarios that heavily. Another reason is that despite trying it often I've never gotten the hang of detonating the shot at the right moment. Maybe it's just not made for me, or maybe I'm too much of a casual player and switch classes or weapons too often - for me its learning curve is extremely steep compared to pretty much every other mechanic in the entire game, making it somewhat frustrating when people talk about how great and rewarding EPC mining is. (Edit: I tried to learn EPC mining since the start of Season 01 and I can do it... somewhat consistently now. But my opinion about it hasn't changed.) If EPC mining is that good (or rather, was that good before the nerf), it either shouldn't have been a thing at all or it shouldn't be tied to a specific weapon (and probably shouldn't be that difficult to learn, but that might be just my casual attitude speaking). Perhaps rewrite its concept and add it to the power drills as a "fuel grenade" which can mine minerals and terrain from afar. It's similar for the Scout who has a Boomstick overclock to save himself after a misplaced grapple. I prefer the Zhukovs, but here I have an alternative in form of the M1000, which also has an overclock to cancel fall damage. It's not an ideal situation, but at least I can choose if I want my primary or secondary weapon tied up to fulfill this non-combat job (luckily I really like the M1000, so not a loss in this case).

@Dont_know_name

2 жыл бұрын

As a driller I agree

players who are of the mindset that mining is the scouts job typically arent good drg team players. i play every class and i mine as much as possible with all classes. when it comes to mining the scouts job is first prioritize mining any and everything to high for other classes to reach. that is with or without a good engi making platforms. I achieve this with hoverboots. activate hover boots at the peak of the grample, pick axe into the wall, and then regrapple to your newly grapple foothold as you fall. most of the time I dont even have to wait on an engi and can mine extremely fast

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

👍👍 You can also power attack into the wall without having to hover! This saves you an active perk slot.

@jcaesar8468

2 жыл бұрын

Isn't that what people mean when they say mining is the Scout's job? They mean that he's the one that should mine minerals in hard to reach places. It's obvious everyone has to mine.

It has always been the case that every team must have an engineer and a scout. There was never a way to have a team make up without those two. EPC mining finally allowed you to have teams without engineers. Yes a team of 4 with 1 of each is optimal but it was nice when we had more choice to change it up. Two gunners for dreadnaught missions. Two engineers for Salvage. But now, whatever we do, we're back to HAVING to have those friends who have to fill the scout and engi roles. This nerf to the driller has hurt the entire game.

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

big time agree as my 3 man team never plays with a scout.

@SymmetricalDocking

2 жыл бұрын

You can clearly see this in the player stats. Least played class? Gunner. Second Least played? Driller.

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

@@SymmetricalDocking funny, my engi switched to scout. Now if only my gunner would switch to engi…

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

@Gr3y my gunner is clearly unhappy as a gunner. But he’s also a stubborn ass who refuses to change lol

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

@Gr3y I haven’t tried Scout. But my buddy mains Scout and I main driller. I like engi, and gunner is fun. But man, I just GET driller. So fun. I love the depth in the game. After a fashion it’s all about skill and getting better at the game and I love how high the ceiling is. No cave puns intended

Greenbeard: EPC mining is dead! Long live EPC! Lord of the deep: *EPC mines everything, including bugs and scouts*

I don't always scout, but when I do I put up flares and mine all the time. While it shouldn't be the scouts job to mine, he is the best for it as long as the Engi does his job. Everyone should at least make an effort and not just expect the scout to do everything.

With more than 500 hours in the game I can assure I have never commited friendly fire, it's more an assisted dying scheme where team mates walk directly in front of a target I was already shooting.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

XD

I know I'm late to the party, but what if EPC mining were made possible with an overclock? Hypothetically speaking, 60%-90% damage reduction to enemies, and 30% reduction of radius of the explosion to make it where it takes a little more ammo/effort to mine larger deposits? Just my op. Love the content!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I agree at this point. Making it an overclock and remapping some of the mods would fix a lot of things.

@biggestenjoyerofthebiggest7796

2 жыл бұрын

unless they removed tcf completely from the normal mods and made it into an overclock I don't feel as if this'd be a good idea. mainly because (I'm assuming what you mean is make an overclock where mineral scatter is removed along with the other negatives you said along with it please correct me if I'm wrong) it'd force you into using a very certain build where the only customisation you could get is maybe taking less ammo for a faster charge up which would only be useful in very few situations, and for someone like me who tries to find alternative offmeta builds, it'd make epc mining kind of boring if you're only able to do one very particular thing with it with no possible build diversity. (and also I want a reason to use flying nightmare it's a super cool concept but it's basically worthless even as a gimmicky weapon to bunker with at least in my experience)

Great video. Made me consider certain new points of view on the topic, but I think there's a relevant aspect of the discussion being left out in the video and in the other comments. I have about 850 hours into the game, the great majority of that time on hazard 5 with random players or friends. I consider myself an engineer main, but since I reached master 3 on it I've been leveling all other classes non stop. Driller and scout are tied at the second place for me, but I still got all the cosmetics for driller first (so maybe I like him more? I don't know). Anyway, that's just to give context and preface my opinion that one of the main points in nerfing TCF mining is to slow things down AND, thus, create more action. I know it sounds paradoxical, but consider the following: 1) Setting up platforms, pinging the mineral and having the scout go there and mine it (whichever order this really happens) is more time consuming than a well placed TCF explosion. 2) Spending more time getting minerals means that the team has to prioritize what minerals they get and when they get it - this adds complexity to all classes involved in the mining situation (not only engineer and scout). 3) The more time you spend in the caves, the more bugs you have to kill, more ammo you consume, and the chances for failure are higher. So tight team work and proper prioritization of resources is necessary to succeed in higher difficulties. The way I see it, having TCF mining scatter minerals around is a measure to balance the time it takes for the team to have access to those minerals - and that's fair. The way I see it, there isn't a reason to justify TCF mining being efficient in every situation. Sure, there's some skill involved, but gratifying those already satisfying perfect TCF implosions shouldn't come at the expense of making the game faster and less complex for everyone else. Besides, people can get efficient enough with TCF implosions in a matter of a few hours (less than 10, I would guess) if they are already familiar with FPSs, so it's not like a super demanding and skillful things to get proficient at. Of course, this last point is based on personal experience and perception, but still, I think it points towards something worth considering in the debate.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

I agree that it *could* speed up the pacing of missions, but on haz 5, I really just didn't find myself getting through missions any faster. And considering basically every aspect of DRG requires or at least benefits from good teamwork, I never really thought it was a big deal to be able to get hard-to-reach minerals myself rather than finding a vein, pinging, and coordinating with two other people who are likely in a different area and working on their own thing. I should say that I mostly play with at least one or two IRL friends while connected on Discord, so we typically split up between swarms to tackle objectives, mine, and explore, and regroup for swarms and stationary objectives. It's more interesting to us than everyone staying together from start to finish, and I feel like it allows for more exploration of the caves.

I personally don't care either way. I have always and will always use the pistol, so it never bothered me anyway. Does kinda suck, the method they went about nerfing it is meant to be inconvenient rather than actually balancing anything, but such is how it goes sometimes. I can only take my solace in having my still-unnerfed Subata. She's nothing special, but she's mine

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I just can't bring myself to like that gun, but to each their own! Rock & Stone!

I appreciate the mid-sentence light going off - good shit!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

XD thanks!

First, your video is amazing. All the problems with this change are adressed, and you give good solutions. Second, the editing is great, i watched the all video without switching to my phone, wich is rare! ^^ I agree with you, i bought the game at christmas 2020, put 800 hours since and learned how to EPC, wich was actually a hard challenge. None of the people i played with were complaining about the EPC mining. It was a great way to reward a a steep learning curve, and speed up the not interresting part of the game. Looking at a wall, maintaining right click is NOT FUN. When i was playing scout, i was happy to help by gathering secondary objectives, and let the driller save me time to zip around, light caves, and kill big targets. Now scouts have to run everywhere to gather scattered minerals... it's NOT FUN. I'll still continue to EPC mine, even if it's now annoying for the team. Because landing your shot on a high vein on the ceiling is rewarding and FUN. I hope Ghost Ship will see your video and make some changes. Rock and Stone !

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!! Much appreciated!

@janachten3167

2 жыл бұрын

Couldn't have said it better!

I love your idea because it means I can waste all the red sugar trying to projectile it into my teammate's face.

I usually play solo or with a single other friend, and main Driller. My problem with EPC mining is that I want to shoot bugs with my gun, not rocks. I don't want to be expected to use it if I ever pub, and the couple of times I have pubbed I caught flak for bringing a Subata instead of an EPC because without it I wasn't doing the most efficient way to mine. In solo, Driller staircase building is actively fun. You feel big brained using the drills to get at stuff on ceilings. Frankly, I don't like it but I'm not going to judge someone who does. I just don't want to be expected to use it. I don't think its particularly fun even if it is a higher skill technique. On that end I think the devs either need to say "we didn't intend this to be used for mining" and nix the feature in favor of making TCF a better combat option, or lean in and say "yes, also here are similar options for the other classes" so that the driller isn't the only one responsible for high-efficiency mining. Let the Engi crack minerals with his grenade launcher, maybe people will actually use it over the plasma cutter again. Let the Gunner shoot an HE grenade mid-flight to set it off and break down minerals that way. If the EPC's tradeoff with TCF is to trade a weapon slot for a mining tool, I'm sure other classes would make that trade as well if they were given options.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

It is odd that the two main camps are you should always use it or you should never use it. I always advocate for playing a game the way you like!

Everyone leaves the boring tasks to scout. “Mining is his job, lighting the cave is his job, and he can’t kill bugs.” Don’t get me wrong, scouts need to use their flare gun and mine otherwise inaccessible minerals, but it’s just stupid to think that’s all he does.

@KrossTec

2 жыл бұрын

yep i have this problem too, the best one is when you have the "Greaybeards" in diamond rank engi's spamming minerals on the freaking ground next to them for you to mine, get it your goddamn self, particularly when my silver rank scout is outperforming you in every aspect. (btw 642 hours played, at the time when i took a break there was no reason to grind promotions so i had all 4 sitting on bronze 3 for about 250 hours).

@abaddon130

2 жыл бұрын

Give a Scout a M1000 and you'll see how many bugs he can end lol

@TK-7193

2 жыл бұрын

sure but if theres a nitra vein 20 meters up a cliff, im sending a platform and pinging it to tell the scout to get it. likewise if im scout and i see a ore vein on a funky angle that i cant rocket boot power attack into, im expecting a engie to place a platform for me to get up there. this is deep rock galactic, not get it your self galactic

@darthplagueis13

Жыл бұрын

Well, it's never absolute but each class does have strengths and weaknesses to play according to. Scouts strengths are being able to easily reach otherwise inaccessible spaces, being able to efficiently light large rooms and inflicting solid damage against single targets, with his main weakness being his difficulties in clearing large swarms and breaking terrain. Contrast that with Driller who eats swarms for breakfast and has by far the best tools for terraforming the environment, but struggles against strong single targets and has by far the worst mobility in large open caves. Doesn't mean a Scout shouldn't also attack swarms or that a Driller has no business looking for minerals and collectibles, but that shouldn't be the priority for either unless the situation just happens to present itself accordingly.

I have never said I love a KZread video before but sense I share your sentiments about the sadly nerfed EPC mining situation... I absolutely love this video! I feel so vindicated, yet still sad! 😢😭😂👌🏻👍🏻

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!! Yeah, still sucks, but at least you can still use it for the other things I mentioned. Still miss the old way!

driller main here, this content is pure gold, keep it up man

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!! Plenty more in the works!

Just started playing with launch on PS5 and as discussed below when stuff is really high up it gets difficult as the driller to really get to it without an engineer or gunner. Still learning the ins and outs of the class but figuring out what's actually viable now due to updates has been tricky.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah there was a lot to take in when I started playing almost two years ago. Seems overwhelming to just be starting now. There are a ton of great resources here on KZread though!

Passive-aggressively looking up the definition of "scout" almost made me click out, but the he poured one out for Karl. Mad respect.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, I'm glad you stuck around! Just a bit, not trying to offend anyone!

@SlothfulTurtle

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrillingInTheNameOf I figured. It was fine, funny too. Think I just read into it too much.

Daaaaamn the direction blast is such a good idea!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Would love to see it!

don’t be sad, this is just how it rocks and stones sometimes

I will say, it's kind of nice to not feel obliged to always take the EPC now since people don't really want you to EPC mine most things as driller. I had some rando start chewing me out back when I was a level 3 driller green beard back when I first started a few months ago. Honestly my biggest complaint is that it requires you to choose between utility and damage in a way few other weapon mods do.

That's a fat like for a good content. You're doing a great job, keep it up!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much!

As a driller who just doesnt like the epc and nerver used it to mine this change doesnt bother me. However i can understand others frustrations with it and feel like they need to tweak it better so that its less of a pain for those who do like using the epc in that way.

Mining literally is everyone's job. XD its the entirety of the game. DRILLING is the drillers job , you know, making pathways and getting to difficult to tunnel to spaces. They just have some convenient ways of breaking open the Single resource nodes.

lol the thumbnail and the ending is funny :D and poor EPC still scatter everything :D

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Haha thank you!!

Started with scout, liked the call of duty like play Second engineer, loved the minimal aiming needed and platforms for my team made me feel useful Gunner: he shoots things, that's fun but that's it Driller: absolutely hates it (tries again with cryo and EPC) my favorite class

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Cryo/EPC is definitely S tier.

@themarlboromandalorian

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrillingInTheNameOf well... Is good against all except dreadnaughts unless you use ice spear which I hate because the reload button and the use/dump button are the same button... And it's not great against robots unless you're running ice storm which... Again I don't like it... My job is make enemies frozen to increase the team's ammo economy. Doesn't work against robots and dreads. But you know this. Still... Cryo vamp is the best. Ever. Of all time. And EPC doesn't scatter like it did. It is better now.

There's a lot of salty neckbeards when it comes to balance topics. Always a pain to make a balance suggestion on the subreddit when you're met with comments like "x is fine", "don't like it then don't use it", "git gud". Just so dumb.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Oh totally. What is a subreddit for a game for if not discussion, so I don't get the point of trying to shut down a discussion before it even starts.

I appreciate how civil you are.

"The Standard Book of Fact" - *_Google Definitions_* I like it.

I have no idea if it was intentional or not, but the “speaking of what annoys people” bit immediately led into an ad which was funny.

@da3m0nic_79

Жыл бұрын

I noticed this too I hope it was intentional because then it was pretty clever

EPC mining + Zero Gravity HAZARD = Total chaos

I'm just learning to epc mine and it's super frustrating. It's really only useful for point extraction now. Driller is a class without any distance closing movement, I think epc mining WAS a good way to get the far minerals closer rather than getting close to the minerals, but this nerf/revert is kills that.

I love how he so casually poured some beer on the floor for Karl

As someone who mains Scout, I agree with your points 100%! So often I'll get spammed in chat "Scout get Nitra, I need a supply!" while they are literally standing 20 feet from a Nitra deposit at head height...

I just don't understand why people cry about EPC mining when they could have fun doing it too. I play every class. Doesn't make sense to me.

@matthewboyd8689

Ай бұрын

Gotta have skill and the right mods. Changed up to fast charge speed and went from just mining to aggressive praetorian take downs and I take turns with it and the impact ax to keep things fresh. I wonder if season 6 will have secondary overclocks considering season 5 has primary overclocks.

Omg, that pour out for Karl... F. Then that ending... ! 💯

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

XD thank you!

as someone who 99% of time play solo . the EPC nerf really hurted the driller for me . every other class has a easy way to access vertical ores . maybe the gunner have harder time but driller without EPC . will be play the guess game as drilling and checking the map for the waypoint for where the ore is . all i know . that is an easy way to die .and if the nerf need to stay . give us the old old way it used to be . so at least we don't run around like headless chicken trying to find every piece of ore that went to the shadow realm

@shanehunt3019

2 жыл бұрын

If you're playing solo why not use bosco? There's no penalty for using him and other than the challenge flex it's a strictly worse experience.

@CoolSs

2 жыл бұрын

@@shanehunt3019 i do use bosco . but now with mods . i even use a better bosco . normal bosco sucks . it like 1/3 of normal dwarf but with mods . it can pull it weight.

@shanehunt3019

2 жыл бұрын

@@CoolSs So what's the difference between bosco mining roof ores and EPC?

@CoolSs

2 жыл бұрын

@@shanehunt3019 EPC was more interesting . you not just used it for mining but also for killing flying enemies and was good for ammo conservation . but now you need to use the flying nightmare if you want to kill enemies or overclock that focuses on that . because using the EPC for mining now is a hassle and not worth it . also the Subata is one of the most boring item in the whole game . maybe it's can be fun with Explosive reload . but it's still not really that needed because the driller is like one of the best at horde clearing .

@ChonkyTatzelwurm

2 жыл бұрын

@@CoolSs Subata being boring is kind of a good thing though, at least as far as the Driller is concerned. Everything else in the driller's kit is so extra and sometimes its good to have an old reliable. I think its rad with the tranq overclock as well, that's how I run it 90% of the time

9:50, I respect sacrificing the cleanliness of your floor for a joke

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Anything for a bit!

@1ZPhoenixZ1

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrillingInTheNameOf Karl would approve

Mining is the scout's job. Commits pulling out dictionary (: dat disrespect

came here for the EPC . stayed for the drip .

I only started playing a few updates ago, and I've already sunk a lot of time in, I just wanted to thank you for actually putting it in a way I understand. Usually when I click on a video where they go over the EPC mining changes the person is just reductive and uncompromising, saying it was better the way it was, when it was really being nerfed because it didn't align properly with the dev's vision of the game. Now I actually understand the point of view. I only started using EPC mining after the nerf, so I'm personally impartial. I haven't had my minerals go flying quite as far as in those clips you posted, but since it can happen, I definitely agree that it should be mitigated (though a full rollback or leaving it the same wouldn't quite sit well with me especially with the vitriol coming from both sides of the argument.)

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! It's interesting, I actually stopped EPC mining veins altogether but I gave it a shot the other night and had quite a few where the implosion was far less extreme. I still had a few crazy ones but not like it was when I made these two videos. It makes me wonder if they toned the effect down.

About your suggestion somewhere in the 9min mark, I like it, just make it the opposite. If it's an implosion it should pull minerals down if it's below, up if it's above etc.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

I'd be totally fine with that. Even more of a skill shot, really.

Great video, and I agree a lot more with your points in this one. I've had a lot of time to think since the update dropped too and I'd like to share some of my updated thoughts here as well. I think a big part of the reason that I don't mind the change so much really might just boil down to the personal preference aspect of that I don't mind looking at a vein and holding M2. In fact I'd actually say I like it. This is a comfort game to me, I come home to play this and zone out after a long day of work and the mining part is where I can really get the most zoned out. It's relaxing and enjoyable to me, but it might not be for people who are more in it for the combat than I am. You mentioning in this video that people should be more considerate of others' perspectives is what led me to realize my own perspective on this just minutes ago. That being said, even as someone who enjoys the mining I have played with the EPC a lot more since the update anyway. I still greatly enjoy Persistent Plasma and believe it's a fantastic option for the combat side of the game, and taking TCF is a key part of that build, but it really does feel impossibly useless for gathering minerals now any time I try it. It's less like mining the minerals and more like just deleting them. I actually thought at first that the change you described in this video, where the minerals are propelled away from the explosion, *was* how it works already, but no it really is just completely random and the variance is so high that it's not a real option in most or all mineral situations. *Speaking only for myself,* I still actually enjoy this aspect of change as it gives me a reason to use my pickaxe on something other than enemies again as driller. But I also see now that it is such a shame for this to come at the cost of a rewarding playstyle that others enjoyed. Some sort of compromise really is in order. Finally, while I was once optimistic about the changes to Flying Nightmare, ultimately I have come to the painful conclusion that both it and plasma burn just still aren't worth it compared to everything TCF can provide. If they ever want TCF and FN to be balanced with each other from a combat perspective, they *have to* make the radius and damage of TCF implosions dependent on charge shot damage. It's cool that FN can one-shot grunts at base now, but TCF can one-shot *slashers* and still have 184 ammo while doing it. Sure TCF has a higher skill floor and it should reward you for that, but the gap is just so large even a zipline couldn't help you cross it. On the normal shot build front, I see what they're going for with Plasma Burn and I even think that mod would be pretty well balanced if it wasn't for the existence of Heavy Hitter which just does the job more reliably and better. Regardless of all this debacle though, your original video on TCF introduced me to the channel and I do plan to stick around for more. I love your videos, and you seem to have a much different perspective on the game and my favorite class from me so I'm interested to stay and see what else you have to say. Rock and stone!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! Always good to hear from a driller with a different perspective! And I agree, there are things that could be balanced and I just feel like Update 34 wasn't the way to go. But hey, at least with regards to EPC mining, TCF has already changed twice, so who knows what will happen!

I'm firmly of the camp that explosives generally ought be able to mine. Annoying to default to the pick near every time.

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

It’s an implosion not explosion

@theriveracis5172

2 жыл бұрын

@@Clogmonger And others aren't. I'm not referring solely to this

I clicked 'like' before I saw that clip at the end... Now I'm regretting it... I wish I had clicked it after. Oh well. Great video overall, love the conclusion you came to and that last bit had me rolling!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

XD thank you!!

I personally love when a rooms floor is littered with loot. Like when you kill 12 lootbugs with a fat man shot.

Very good arguments. I really liked the video.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

after this video driller became scout`s friend (good job)

Yeah, I've run into a number of drillers that think mining is their job alone and EPC low ground level veins first rather than the high/awkward ones... quite annoying when running as a Gunner and now I'm stuck doing nothing and hoping to see something I can shoot (that isn't said Driller... maybe.) And while running Driller... I was frankly tired of the rest of team making me the sole miner or berating me for not taking the EPC... apparently people forget it can still be used to make holes on the cheap... which I feel was it's purpose the whole time and just happened to overly handy at mineral mining. But yeah... the loot bug like burst on minerals needs to be toned down a bit... or make it directional like you brought up.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

I guess yeah that is the flip side of it. As much as I love and defend EPC mining, I'm definitely not the type to butt in front of everyone to mine everything. I try to be respectful of engineers who have already gotten platforms up (unless the engineer is my friend and I'm messing with them 😁).

Please devs, make the suggestion of DIRECTIONAL mining a thing.

Everyone mines.. Unless they fighting, or doing their class specific hijinks. Like scouts scouting, drillers drilling, gunners ziplining and engies being absolutely adorable.

And then there's me, using Flying Nightmare... Stuff on the ceiling? Drills, and you have a nice long tunnel for Flying Nightmare to fly down Now if Ghost Ship Games could do something about enemies attacking through 2m walls... To me, TCF nerf makes sense. Just like mining with C4 or the few Engineers mining with the grenade launcher, you're blasting a huge chunk of stuff out. Any time save you gained by using explosives instead of mining with a pickaxe is punished by having to go collect.

@Clogmonger

2 жыл бұрын

it’s in IMPLOSION not explosion.

I know I'm a bit late, but my personal thoughts on epc mining are that while it should be possible it definately was a bit too good, I think if you're going to be able to turn your secondary into a mining tool that it should be a worse combat option at that point. I think that the speed with which it allows you to mine should be balanced by how tightly the resources are clumped together(ie they should scatter but probably less than they are at the time of this video or even what it is now) and in exchange for the skill required to pull it off you gain the benefit of safety(not exposing yourself to fall damage as well as bugs attacking you while you mine resources) Tldr: it should be an option, but options need to have some kind of trade off and while I think it deserved to be nerfed in some way, the way it was adjusted took it from being a skillfull tool and turned it into a trolling item and deserves to be adjusted in a different way

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed!

LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO MY BABY BOY!!!! after coming back to this game after a long break this was so sad to see :(

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

XD

the scatter is my favourite part about epc mining tbh, its great to see it all scatter hilariously and force then have to go on a scavenger hunt for my minerals

Mining is the game, that's why we _ROCK AND STONE!_

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Rock & Stone!

I'm part of the "it's not that bad" side, but I pretty much agree with everything you've said. I'll still blast those gold veins to smithereens because fuck that waste of time.

I hope they change the way the minerals drop sometime soon. For now I leave one hit minerals (nitra and morkite) for scout and other teammates while going for two hit minerals (gold, etc) if no other teammates go to gather them. And I'll usually still mine the rarer minerals by hand just to make sure I don't lose any

^Yes, just yes. Gimme back the piles. And get the f in my Bunkie^^

Conceptually I think another good way to balance TCF mining would be to make it come at more of a cost to combat, which could also work alongside your suggestion. For example, the base damage output of a TCF blast could be lower to be below certain enemy breakpoints, but then have a mod on a different tier (like option 3 in tier 4) that would increase damage output of charged shots as well as TCF blasts if you are running TCF. This mod could drastically increase TCF blast damage back up to 240, but come at a cost to mining efficiency. Maybe TCF could go back to the old mineral physics if you use it in its lower damage state, but if you use this damage mod, then the minerals would scatter because the blast would be more "powerful." Or the damage mod could make the TCF carve radius smaller, etc. This way there would be an option to essentially choose between a TCF mining build and a TCF combat build, which I think would be a great way to balance things while still providing options that satisfies different play styles.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly. There are ways to nerf/balance that make a lot more sense.

Honestly I was kinda upset when they nerfed it but recently I started messing around with secondaries again and found with a few tweaks the EPC is my favorite secondary with the driller. So I lost one thing to gain another so no complaints here!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Still my secondary of choice!

wow, that ending got dark.

as someone with probably a 6th of your hours and who's sorta a flex player with a preference towards Driller, I think part of the problem with EPC mining is that ziplines and platforms and weird digging routes are all things that can be used by all players. An Engi can put down the platforms and other players can get to that spot to do the mining, a gunner can make a zipline to a spot and other players can ride up to it and do the mining, a driller can dig to the spot in the wall or ceiling and others can join to do the mining But EPC (even though there's a lot of skill involved) doesn't include any potential cooperative elements. It doesn't encourage working together in the coop game, which I think is kinda a problem from a design perspective. Don't get me wrong, i think it's really cool and I've been starting trying to figure it out, but also as other people have said, it kinda forces you to pick the EPC because of the massive utility of EPC mining (the forcing coming from an internal desire to be "optimal" to be clear). Ultimately, right now at least, I don't mind the way it is currently. I just go and find the scattered minerals if I EPC mine like I would with a Lootbug death. Anyway, hope y'all are having fun with Update 35, Rock and Stone!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with the majority of what you're saying. With the people I play with, we just divide and conquer with mining. We split up a lot and regroup for main objectives and swarms. So "needing" to play cooperatively to mine just doesn't really fit the way we play. A lot of the arguments I read make it sound like all four players stand right next to each other and explore the cave together for 100% of the mission, which is fine, but I just can't imagine playing that way personally. But the beauty of this game is playing it the way that suits you! Update 35 is a blast so far! New video hopefully up this week. Rock & Stone!

@orifox1629

2 жыл бұрын

@@DrillingInTheNameOf That's super fair. Tbh I've not played in a ton of four person matches so far because I typically just play with my wife or alone. We definitely do divide and conquer sometimes but sometimes we're right next to each other working together to mine something. Mostly it depends on whether we're trying to go fast, what classes we're playing, and what kind of mission it is. Anyway, glad you're enjoying the update! Rock & Stone!

Now Scout gameplay is 90% mining and 10% shooting and lighting up a cave. Yay, fun...

3:37 lmao that was clean

no matter the job of the class, its always nice to meet each one, or as many as you can, halfway. Makes for some smoother runs, especially with randoms and lvl 5 randos making it into haz 4.

I never experienced the best era (season) time to EPC mine. I also don't have the proper OC to do it. Still it is very appealing to me. As a driller, how do you get collectables that are really high up in the ceiling overhead? Fossils, or Boolo caps or such? I also feel there could be a perk like "Magnetic personality" to pull fallen minerals closer. I notice this mineral explosions when taking out loot bugs (I admit it, some missions don't give enough minerals).

fr though... waa the class about digging is too good at digging

this may come very late, but my issue with the EPC is the extreme wobbling making me nauseous if too close to the area.

LOVE THIS!

@DrillingInTheNameOf

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!!

One big problem with EPC mining is that it steps on the role toes of the most popular class, so it upsets the largest quantity of players.

Whoa... That ending got dark quick...

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

😈

It's wild people are that nettled over it. It's a higher skill ceiling tool that you build your weapon for. God forbid you take some of the scout's job or save your engie some platforms. It's a PVE game you pick how to play *for fun* at the end of the day

@loafofbread9400

3 жыл бұрын

Only made that the explosion doesnt make sense, would be cool if they got sucked it first then sprayed out

Man really said ju deez 💀

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Always and forever ❤️

Now I want to say what is happening to me: pretty much all my charged shots just don´t explode anymore. And if explode, make that bubbly effect and just that. It might open or not the ground with DoA of just none. Got 2, 3 games emptying my EPC this way with no consistency (Yes I know how EPC works, I know you need to shot the charged blob, and I used to use it quite often)

I literally do not know how to do epc mining and use the subata. And somehow I end up getting a 300-600 mining score with my pickaxe by gliding up walls with my drills

I don't understand how people who attack the EPC mining technique in order to defend the Engineer/Scout combo don't realize how much they downplay those two roles in the first place. Like, just because EPC mining exists, it doesn't mean your job as Scout/Engineer is completely negated. You wanna tell me that before the nerf all you did as a Scout was waiting for your Engineer to place down platforms to mine? All you did as Engineer was placing down platforms for your Scout to jump on? Teamwork for you is just this? Grappling to a platform? People complain about this like we just want the EPC technique to go back to a clean pile of minerals; is it really that hard to grasp the concept of a middle term? A slight re-adjustement? Hell, we are asking the whole thing to be even more skill dependant.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

^^^^^^^^^^^^

mining is not the scout's job, but it sure makes life easier for a team, when a scout can mine the minerals on the ceiling; it takes fewer platforms as well.

Nah. I will continue to EPC mine, I’m not gonna drill into the ceiling and pixel hunt for that stalactite to mine it, waste all that fuel and time and or wait for a scout or gunner who may or may not come to my ping.

I literally just set up a tcf build today and now that i know its nerfed i feel like it was all for nothing. (Even tho it helped me get minerals on my own at the start of almost every mission i played today 🤭)

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

It's definitely not for nothing! Just not as efficient as it used to be. But it's great for large minerals and downed teammates!

Still looks like a good way to break ores that are out of reach.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Oh for sure, that's mostly what I use it for now. Definitely still serves a purpose and it's still pretty much the only way I run the EPC.

@AziSlays

2 жыл бұрын

Being the only method doesn't make it a good method.

Has a scout main I actually dislike this change quite a bit it means I have a lot more work to do and spend a lot less time supporting my teammates with DPS as I'm stuck trying to mine all the ceiling resources whereas before a driller could EPC stuff that would be difficult or dangerous for me to get

Now Driller only have ONE gun and 3 useless toys.

Hello, I'm from 2022. EPC mining is still pretty common.

I just watched this, did they do anything about it yet?

What about a magnetic grappling hook like Feature so you shoot a magnet(fishing type net) to the Ore an explosion mines it and your magnet falls down? hmmmm

@DrillingInTheNameOf

2 жыл бұрын

Would be great for scout!

I hate nerfs. It is much better to buff things than nerf.

Be a driller. Never equip epc. Smoke weed everyday. Yolo 420.

A scout doesn't even have communication tools other than voice chat to adequately scout. You can only mark one enemy in a cave full of leeches, spitballers, and brood nexuses. That being said the issue isn't that it's scout's "job" to mine minerals, it's that EPC used to be so effective at it, it effectively trivialized mining, leaving a lot less mining to be done for other dwarves. (You even acknowledge this yourself?!) Then there's also the fact driller's drills EXPLICITLY can't mine minerals, and you can hardly save more than a couple seconds mining minerals by drilling around it, so EPC not working well for mining minerals is pretty in-line with the design where classes' tools are flimsy at best when it comes to mining minerals. (Like trying to mine with fat boy or minigun.) It's completely fair that driller effectively lost the ability they were never really supposed to have. The neat piles were a genuine mistake, the removal of which makes the game more enjoyable for the whole roster of dwarves again.

Personally I don't think epc mining is more efficient since it uses ammo. Pickaxe is the way to go for me, always. EPC mining never even made it out of my bed since I was never impressed by it, but to each his own, I don't judge other dwarves methods. R&S

I disagree that the difficulty of mining is simply finding them. I think that epc minings speed misses out on the balance between getting reasorces and killing.

@DrillingInTheNameOf

Жыл бұрын

The game was a lot different back then. Nitra is everywhere now. Before, it was at times a struggle to find enough to get enough resupplies to get through the longer missions.

It seems Ghost Ship games doesn't want players to use EPC mining. Especially with how far the minerals go.