Thank you, Johan, for inviting me to chat with you about the author who baptized my imagination when I was young and who continues to inspire so many with the beauty, sorrow, and joy of his story!

@ericF-17

16 күн бұрын

Brilliant insights Philip! Its not as if I regularly watch LOTR discussions, but still, this is probably one of the best LOTR discussion I've seen.

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

16 күн бұрын

@@ericF-17 Thank you, Eric!

@IndiaTides

14 күн бұрын

Is Ganesha on your T-shirt?

@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy

14 күн бұрын

@@IndiaTides Yes, indeed!

@noname3609

13 күн бұрын

@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I am impressed on your Tolkien knowledge professor ! Absolutely brilliant talk guys ! :)

Fun fact the name Tolkien is contained within the name Thorkelin who was the first translator of Beowulf. Cheers from Mercia the original Shire.

Legendary Philip Chase!

Dr. Phillip Chase was in his element in this one

Beautiful reading of The Wanderer, Philip. Informative discussion. This old teacher learned some things! Re: the Anglo Saxon world view on the transitory nature of existence. Tolkien knew too well how "fleeting life" was, losing his father and mother as a child, and then all his best friends but one (and their relationship altered not for the better) as a young man in WWI. I'm sure that theme of Anglo-Saxon life resonated with him. But after Anglo-Saxons were introduced to Christianity, that sense of loss was significantly tempered and changed. Yes, there is still profound sorrow in loss. But I think it's important to note that the ulitmate optimism of the A.S. "Dream of the Rood" is in LOTR, which C.S. Lewis I think said at that time of its original publication, was "at bottom" a hopeful tale. And I think it's significant that in LOTR, while the works of the elves' hands pass away, the world changes for the age of men, and Frodo must leave the shire, there is the hope of personal relationships enduring beyond this passing world. The poet of The Dream of the Rood writes that because of the cross of Jesus, he will be taken to his departed friends to "great bliss...where the people of God are seated to feast." In LOTR, Frodo and Sam's separation is temporary, b/c near the end of Sam's life, he receives a dispensation to join Frodo. But the theme resonates in the most beautiful language in The Tale or Aragorn and Arwen when the dying Aragorn tells Arwen, "In sorrow we must go but not in despair. Behold! We are not bound forever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory."

Frodo's victory does not come when he reaches the Cracks of Doom. It comes when he spares Gollum weeks earlier, when he shows pity and compassion. He is merciful to him, allowing them to accompany them despite Sam and Faramir urging him not to. That is what saves him in the end. This is why Gollum is there at the Cracks of Doom to save him from the power of the Ring. It allows Providence to take a hand.

24:34 Here's a thing about songs/poetry: Music was everywhere. I did some research, and in the German speaking area, we had songs for EVERYTHING. Working songs. Songs for the seasons. Songs for holidays/special occasions. Songs for children. Songs for different professions. The list goes on. People had different reasons for singing, but it was an integral part of life. Prayers were used for taking the time. Like, people knew at which part of the prayer they had to take bread out of the oven, and at which part meat. To me, it seems like Tolkien is the only writer who acknowledges that. I don't remember any books that included songs/poetry that wasn't directly related to the plot (like a prophecy). Once I realised this, I had characters in my stories sing songs, or read poetry to each other. I worked it into the story in a way that it makes sense that they do this, but my aim was to include this extremely important part of life.

Thank you for such an insightful and enjoyable discussion. I love reading the physical books my grandmother owned because I get to feel a connection to her even through she died many years ago. I never thought to expand that connection to everyone who has read the books that I love. That’s quite the book club! 😂

@jasonuerkvitz3756

12 күн бұрын

Wow, that's truly special to have her books, to turn the pages her fingers turned, to trace the ink with your eyes, her eyes traced. Those books are a bridge between your souls. There is something deep and resonant about this. There's a story of woe and wonder begging to be told. I hope you are able to pass these books on to your children and from them to theirs.

This was a wonderful interview. Great questions and great discussion!

5:12 The poem excerpt: Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago? Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? Hwær cwom symbla gesetu? Hwær sindon seledreamas? Eala beorht bune! Eala byrnwiga! Eala þeodnes þrym! Hu seo þrag gewat, genap under nihthelm, swa heo no wære.

I know that progressives want all of their favorite authors to also have been progressive, but that analysis is way off. If Tolkien is progressive then there is no such thing as conservative. Tolkien was an old fashioned Catholic conservative and to characterize him as progressive causes the term to lose all meaning. Opposition to Apartheid, Fascism and racial prejudice does not denote a progressive attitude. That has nothing to do with it. He was very traditional and hated modernity in many ways (not the people). That is the exact opposite of a progressive who typically is very suspicious of traditions and has no problem overturning them in the name of progress.

@ianfrye7900

11 күн бұрын

Other than that progressive thing, this was a great conversation. Philip Chase is incredibly smart and one of my favorite booktubers. And, luckily for me, he seems to share a lot of my literary interests. I love hearing him talk about Tolkien!

@kevinrussell1144

10 күн бұрын

Just to label oneself or others as "progressive" is so.........powerful and warming, and modern, but if that means like Joe, Hillary, and Barry, no thanks. JRRT was a traditional Catholic believer, NOT a communist, obviously admired monarchy, was not in for the revolution, and believed in merit not the dialectic. Liberal, yes, but Progressive (as Barry would define it, as a limousine-Marxist and anti-western racist)??? No.

@daybertimagni4841

10 күн бұрын

You’re 100% spot-on.

@cpmf2112

10 күн бұрын

Would you say that Ronald Reagan would be considered a "conservative" by today's MAGA standards? Times and people's perceptions change. He isn't saying that Tolkien would be considered as progressive by today's standards, but opposition to apartheid and racial prejudice would definitely have been considered as progressive when Tolkien was writing The Hobbit and TLOTR, not conservative.

@kevinrussell1144

9 күн бұрын

@@cpmf2112 The problem with your question (and this discussion) is that these definitions are mutable (they change with the times), so one is forced to begin with definitions to make oneself clear. Classical liberals are not at all like McGovernites, and Teddy R, progressives have only a few things in common with Obama progressives. The Left and Right model is almost useless. JFK has much more in common with Ike and Reagan than with Obama or FDR, although the latter was in many ways a mixed bag of a hybrid. I would consider JRRT a classical liberal and social conservative. Barry and Hillary are limousine Marxists. Joe is just a grifter and crook. Trump is a lot like JFK in his political leanings and his desire to rein in the Deep State, and his social behavior is both like and unlike JFK's. He (Trump) also has a good dose of oligarch and showboat glad-hander (and he may well have his shady side). Reagan probably believed his conservative message but didn't believe in limited government, sound money, or balanced budgets. The Bushes I put in the same box as LBJ.

Lord of the Rings, as it has for many, is probably one of the main reasons why I'm writing epic fantasy. While I love any story that hooks you in with relatable, lovable characters and unique worldbuilding concepts, my all-time favorites are still epic in nature with vast worlds full of fantastical settings and varying peoples/cultures. It's just... cool--when it's done well. It's a daunting undertaking to attempt to do what greats like Tolkien have done, but in my mind, they are the kind of stories that fill my head, and it only makes sense to go with this passion.

Wonderful interview! Thanks to you both.

In addition to the Anglo Saxon sources, as «The Wanderer» and «Beowulf», there are multiple other Ancient, Medieval and Early Modern sources that Tolkien used for inspiration: The Medieval «Song of Roland» about Paladin Roland’s valiant stand during an ambush against the rear of the Frankish King Charlemagne’s army, served as inspiration for Boromir’s Last Stand, with Boromir as Roland and Aragorn as Charlemagne (echoing how Charlemagne claimed the title as Western Roman Emperor and an attempt was made to unify the Frankish Empire with the Byzantine Empire in the East, Aragorn unify the Broken Kingdom of Arnor with Gondor)! As a Feroe Islander, you might recognize the story as the inspiration for the Folk Tune «Rolandskvadet»/«Roland og Magnuskongen»! Another inspiration for the Rohirrim, are the Ancient Goths: The Battle of Pelennor Fields gets inspiration from both the Mythical «Battle of the Goths and the Huns»/«Hlöðskviða» from the Norse Saga «Hervarar saga ok Heiðreks»/«The Saga of Hervor & Heidrek», with for example the Shield Maiden Hervor riding into battle against the Goths not unlike Eowyn (though to a different end), and the Historical (though often Mythologized) Battle of the Catalaunian Fields/Plains, between the Western Roman Empire and Attila and his Huns and their respective allies and tributaries, with Theoden reflective of the fate of the Visigoth King and ally of Rome Theodoric. Shakespeare’s «Macbeth» (or rather Tolkien’s dissatisfaction with the work), inspired two famous scenes, the Ents attacking Isengard and the defeat of the Witch King: In «Macbeth», two prophecies tell that Macbeth will rule until the Forest attacks his Castle and no man born will be able to kill him. These are in the play fulfilled when Macbeth’s enemies use branches to hide their advances and Macbeth is killed by Macduff, who was not born through natural birth but through Caesarian Section. Tolkien was dissatisfied with these solutions, so in his own story, the Forest comes to life as the Ents to attack Isengard, while the Witch King is defeated by a Woman and a Hobbit! And both Morgoth and Sauron shares elements of the Fallen Angel Lucifer in John Milton’s «Paradise Lost». There are many more, but I would also like to mention how Tolkien aided with an Archeological find, a Ancient Temple to the Roman-Celtish god Nodens in Lydney Park, something Tom Shippey has mentioned as a major inspiration for Tolkien: Among the finds were rings with curses on them and Tolkien tied Nodens to the Irish Celtic Mythical Figure Nuada «Silverhand». Helen Armstrongs therefore argues that Tolkien later used this to fashion the Elvish Master Smith Celebrimbor («Silverhand» in Sindarin Elvish) forging the Rings of Power. And Matthew Lyons have mentioned the nearby Dwarf’s Hill with «Hobbit-like» Mineshafts as another possible inspiration.

This was so so enjoyable, thank you both ☺️

16:40 bonus points for using the word “philological” 18:44 I think in The Nature of Middle-earth, pg 41 I think, a note of Tolkien’s points to the artistic primacy of language. Philip and this subject had me click, so good job.

LoTR is just timeless imo. Rnrn though it resinsteswith things that eventually come to an end... I love it! Old languages, & ancient ledgends. I live for those things!

This is one of the best videos I’ve watched on KZread

This was amazing and insightful! Would love to take his class.

How dare you enjoy Tolkien and judge his work with more nuance and complexity!?! Jokes aside, it's refreshing to see such a video.

Lovely Old English word at 25:48 "Dustsceawung" meaning retrospection, literally contemplation of the dust. It's an understanding not of what's been lost, or the transience of things, but of how the past persists in the present.

Thanks for such a fascinating and insightful discussion. Very enlightening.

Absolutely fascinating, thank you chaps!

Excellent interview, sir. Happy reading!

excellent interview. Thank you.

Fantastic discussion! I’ve also been reading LOTR since I was 12 and have been rereading many times. Read the books to my boys…which might have kept them too long from their sleep🫣 but haven’t read LOTR in a while…this talk inspires me to reread and not miss a single poem(well, maybe not the Tom Bombadil ones-can the professor explain how those would inspire me?). Would have loved taking a class with this professor! The offerings in my university kept me mostly to economics and math. (Sylvia Plath😥?)

Absolutely loved this talk, more of this type of content would be amazing! Have to admit all the little cuts were a bit jarring though.

Very insightful!

I have that Saga of Icelanders book that's behind Philip Chase.

The greatest fantasy book ever written if you take all parts and put them into one big book ! :)

I always loved the poems and songs. When I read _The Hobbit_ as a kid, I realized the Attercop song worked best in 7 time, so I imagined Hobbit folk music and dancing in 7, which really works. Think of 6 with a wry twist.

6:46 - A very close translation, actually. There are several more there & in the appendices. Tolkien has even 2 or more original poems in Old English (published by his son)

The themes are timeless.

Wonderful video.

10:20 - So what? It was a major discovery that still resonant today

To be fair without the following quote from Illuvatar to Melkor, the entire thread of the story line is lost “And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.” Whether God being invoked into LOTR is acceptable to many, or not, it is the central theme that The Creator has fore-ordained the ways, and means by which those who He has created, will operate with free will, to accomplish a greater good, which was Immutable from the beginning, even with the component of free will given to each being. Melkor crafted his own defeat.

Tolkien wasn’t particularly progressive. He was closer to a reactionary. It’s okay for people who have different cultural and political viewpoints to still be admired by you and by me. Like, there are brilliant thinkers and incredibly good and rich people who are on both sides of deeply fraught and counteracting philosophies

with the announcement of new films I always thought the journey home and the scouring of the shire would have made for a great additional film. Obvs the main problem being Saruman/Sharkey and Worm Tongue being killed off in the original films! But outside of that it would be greatz

5:53 Welp. I knew what this would be about even before he started reading. The Old English part, I mean. The translation only confirmed it.

I skip the songs, too. I spent a long time during my first time reading the books trying to work out melody and metre for them, and failing miserably.

Hi 👋 I need to read this series 😊

@noname3609

13 күн бұрын

You should.It's immersive and amazing ! :)

What's funny is, I'm 43, and it feels like these books are like ancient, immutable texts.

Gollum’s final scene was the epitome of karma or, in other words: “the trash taking itself out.”

Great discussion and quite respectable and welcoming. I wish for the most stauch Tolkien readers to recognize the importance of Peter Jackson's films as Philip Chase does and admit they are not this horrible abomination. However there is one point in this discussion that brings something | still don't fully understand. Many people say Tolkien was a product of his time. Maybe I misunderstand what they are trying to imply, but cannot really place where this shows in his books. Surely, a myth-based fantasy set in the medieval-like or even ancient times is not supposed to look and sound like e.g. 21th century NYC. So of course the books and the use of language could be seen as old fashioned for anyone who hasn't read any stories from Greek, Roman, Norse, Finnish, Slavic... myths and legends before they started to read Tolkien. But does it have anything to do with the time when the author of the books has lived? If Tolkien has lived 50 years later, I'm quite sure he would still be "an old soul". Some people today are also like that. Postmodernism, and cynicism that accompanies it, is a bad word for many people.

@judithromo8084

9 күн бұрын

British class system . Frodo is called Sam's Master. He brings water and is expected to cook and do the heavy lifting Movie alludes to it when Aragorn tells the Hobbits they bow to no one.

@juliannewarren5466

9 күн бұрын

@@judithromo8084 Oh, you are right, I forgot about that one. But mostly because it has never been an issue for me as a reader. I expect the use of class systems in the world like Middle-earth and it would sound out of place if it was any other way.

Every time someone calls Tolkien a bigot, I *politely* remind them that he wrote Eowyn at a time when “women in media” looked like June Cleaver and Donna Reed.

@Happyheretic2308

14 күн бұрын

Nothing wrong with Donna Reed.

@DrFranklynAnderson

13 күн бұрын

@@Happyheretic2308 No, nothing wrong with _any_ of them. But a "No living man am I! You look upon a woman!" shieldmaiden was VERY different from the norm in the 1950s. It may be an overused trope today, but then it was revolutionary.

@avengemybreath3084

13 күн бұрын

If he is a “bigot” then it must be a good thing to be.

The hobbits feeling out of place when they return is only true of Frodo in the book. It's in the movie they all feel it. In the book, the other hobbits take on leadership roles in the Shire. They make the Shire fit them.

His secret was that he could write. Classical literature can read well after hundreds of years.

Wonderful interview :-) Philip is so nice, ill say what he wont in the adaptation question - 'the Jackson movies, whilst not perfect from a readers perspective, had all the heart of the lore and really did try (and objectively succeed) to tell Tolkiens story, and not inject their own ideas in places they do not belong. Now what amazon is doing..... is a disrespectful abomination and should be stopped at all costs, and the writing team should really be concentrating on writing their own stories if they feel like people want to hear those sort of stories'.

The best author in the world. The best books ever written. Tolkien uses old norse myths and names and also Biblical. Tolkien said that our society was destroyed i the 1900'es.

Modern fantasy doesnt follow at all tolkiens tradition for the most, only for superficial elements.

2:31 - No. It's called 'The power of myth'. Nothing to do with identifying with characters.

Shakespeare was writing 500 years ago. See no reason why you mention it's 75 years. I mean Austen, Bronte, Dickens. .

“He was actually quite progressive” - next video

With respect, I don't think the question of the Canon is fraught with questions of privilege in the slightest. Shakespeare's Hamlet is not preeminent, as agreed across the ages, because of Shakespeare's class, race, or other incidental attributes. Hamlet overwhelms rather because of the enormous intelligence of its protagonist, the pyrotechnic verbal displays, the unbelievable interaction between him and other high-resolution characters in the play, etc. The Canon is arbitrated by artists themselves. A recent black Hamlet is quite persuasive. It's so tiresome to hold that we are viewing some hidden privilege network. Someone please propose an aesthetic eminence as great as Shakespeare -- of ANY color, class, gender -- and let us make textual comparisons. If you're going to hold that Shakespeare must have had secret access to the courts of kings and queens, then you will have to take an alternate authorship theory. And even then, millions of people throughout history had access to the courts of kings and queens -- including the kings and queens themselves -- and none, for all their privilege, produced anything matching the aesthetic splendor of Hamlet, or Lear, or Macbeth, and dozen others...

As to Tolkien being "progressive" I would add how he clearly rejects toxic masculinity (Cinema Therapy did a great video on this) and instead of making Éowyn a flat, stereotypical female character , he gives her a fantastic (no pun intended) character arc.

@acuerdox

13 күн бұрын

Its true, thou the word progressive is badly applied, tolkien was a catholic and so enemy of progress, the whole point of the lord of the rings is to do battle against progress, against cars and industry, in favor of kings and nature.

@christianbjorck816

3 күн бұрын

He was extermely conservative. Conservative men are masculine like Aragorn. And Eowyn’s arc is rejecting the warrior and becoming a proper maiden - she’s a great character! Very biblical honestly, and you can see those aspects in The Mother Mary that catholics, like Tolkien was, revered so much.

Progressive? Why is it important? I thought 'inclusion' means including ALL views... Stupid me

Fyrst

Please don't mention Netflix insult to Tolkien! Please just stick to the literature.

Rings of Power is Shit👎

Most overrated books ever...

Leave off with the ‘progressive’ nonsense - it’s codswallop.

@BenWillyums

12 күн бұрын

They're too programmed to drop it, it's their religion and they don't even realize that.