For the rest of our series on Revelation and eschatology, see here: kzread.info/head/PL4nNmjgYbRZ7bCKQsCUZ9mi6SWRzCFRXG

Thank you, dear brothers, for this teaching. I found this channel today and I'm staying. 🧡

I love your videos. I know viewership is low but please don't stop.

On point teaching. Very appreciative for it.

Well done for the very clear, as to why the pre trib exposition of 1 Thes 4 has significant problems. Another thing that stands out me, is why the so called ‘secret’ & unannounced rapture seems to ignore the noise that is affirmed strongly in the text. We read of a shout command, voice of an archangel and a trumpet call! Not what I call a Silent Night! If and it seems the major parts are taken literally, then in terms of biblical and literary consistency so must the call, the voice & the trumpet be taken at face value - literally - one secret unannounced rapture has been shot in the foot!

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

I agree! The primary alleged "secret rapture" passage, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, is surely one of the loudest and most public events in all of Scripture! "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with *a cry of command,* with *the voice of an archangel,* and with *the sound of the trumpet of God.* And the dead in Christ will rise first. [17] Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord."

Teaching worth in its weight in gold

The problem lay with those whom do not believe God is in control not man. intellectualising His word brings a closed mind not able to know Gods word is infallible it is inerrant it is inspired and preserved for all generations. Decernment is a must Jesus said often be ye not deceived Jesus returns to remove the body of Christ to take all saved to heaven for the wedding supper of the Lamb.

You arent going anywhere until you pay for your sins against the children of The Most High! 2 Thessalonians 1:6 KJV “Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;”

I must say first that I really enjoy and appreciate these and please keep them coming. But I must also say, I think it bears some further discussion as to why you see the pre trib rapture as a non issue when it comes to the Gospel. The Gospel, as I understand it, cannot be separated from anything else that the Master commanded or taught during His time on earth or in His direct revelations to Paul and John. I see no scriptural evidence that I am aware of that designated 'the Gospel' from the 'Spirit of Truth' and any of His other declarations or teachings. For instance, I don't see a single place where Jesus Christ or any of His Apostles declare something along the lines of, "now this here is the Gospel, and as long as you've got that part right, you don't have to pay attention to any of this over here" or "hey, as long as you believe in the Gospel, then it doesn't matter what you choose to believe about this over here." Obviously, there are things that we can disagree about or have different takes on, but Paul, for instance was very specific about what these things are (Sabbath and clean and unclean foods, for instance). But the imminence doctrine of the pre trib rapture and also its positioning in regards to endurance, these are things that are clearly spoken against. Now, these warnings are not specific in terms of a pre trib rapture (because we can know from early writings of the fathers, that the teaching did not exist yet) but they absolutely fly in the face of its teachings. Let me pose this question another way; if we can't say that the narrow view taken by most, that the Gospel is confined to what is described in 1Cor as 'the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus according to the Scriptures"(paraphrasing), from say, Jesus' commands to love God with everything that you are, and to love others as yourself', then where and at what point can we separate it from any other of his instructions or commands or teachings , for that matter? Jesus said we must he born again by God's Spirit - can that be separated from the 'good news'? Paul - through direct revelation from the risen Christ - says in 2Thes 2:10 that we must receive a love of the Truth - or we can't be saved. Can that be separated from the Gospel message? I personally am persuaded that the pre trib rapture doctrine IS of another Gospel altogether, driven by false doctrine - dividing the saints into two groups, for instance. I just don't see how we can say it's the same Gospel, when Jesus warned over and over against false teachings. We say full preterism is, based on the denial of His soon coming return. So is believing in the second coming the defining issue here? I don't think that is the only standard. I'd be curious to hear how you reconcile these issues and if you could respond or point me to one of your video where this is covered, I'd be excited to check it out. Thank you in advance, and God bless you all.

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your encouragement! I would say that I believe very strongly (and I don't say this just to be disagreeable with what you wrote) that if someone denies the physical second coming of Christ, as full Preterism does, then that person has given up a fundamental part of the faith and is teaching actual heresy. However, among the other major eschatological views out there (Post-mill partial preterism; post-trib post-millinnialism; post-trib amillennialism; post-trib premillenialism; pre-trib dispensational premillennialism) none of these are heretical or deny a fundamental part of the gospel. In other words, you can believe any of these views just listed (not counting full preterism) and still be a genuine Christian. Each view impacts how we read various passages of the Bible but none of them changes salvation by grace along through faith alone in Christ alone or the fact that Jesus physically rose from the dead, ascended to the Father's right hand, and will come again to judge the living and the dead. Does that help some?

@jamesenewold8864

27 күн бұрын

​@@MarkNorthAveChurch thank you for taking the time to clearly articulate your position. I'm not sure though if you are seeing what my question is really trying to deal with. That demons, as clearly shown in Scripture also believe that Jesus is Messiah. They also believe in a second coming that is to happen at "the appointed time". Scriptures also clearly detail through the parable of the ten virgins, and by Jesus own clear warning, that there are those who believe in salvation by grace who will say on that day, Lord, Lord and yet will be told I never knew you by Him because they are workers of iniquity. So how does the position that says if you believe in Christ and His salvation through faith alone by grace and that He is ascended to right hand of power and is to return in a second coming deal with these passages and many more that point out many aspect by which we are warned? Does that make sense? I hope this helps you better understand my initial question. And thank you once again for your diligence and sincerity. God bless you brother

@jamesenewold8864

27 күн бұрын

Another, more specific way of framing my question is, why was Jesus so adamant and insistent and consistent in His warnings not to be deceived, if preterism is the only false teaching that can shipwreck our faith?

There are problems also with all future rapture of the Church alone :)

People do not listen to God. I did not think I would have to mention Noah but God did. Noah's family was in the Ark (Jesus Christ) when the wrath of God took all away who were not in the ark (Christ Jesus) Its bewildering that people don't understand if your in the ark you will not receive the wrath of God but you will have some troubles (tribulations). Maranatha

oops , haven't you people heard yet ? the people who got to leave , ALREADY LEFT , it's been months already the ones who are still here , ... well then ... probably have to spell it out for you people , YOU ARE STILL HERE , WHICH MEANS ... YOU .. AREN'T GOING , ANY OF YOU !!!

Im a new born again Christian 1 year on 22nd August and still learning. Still not convinced on pre or end rapture. Enjoyed this video thank you. The only thing i see not explained is in the pre rapture Jesus doesn't come down to earth completely and not seen we just meet him in the clouds. Can this be why there is only 1 return?

@donnajess1918

Ай бұрын

Plus do we meet him in the air then straight back down seeing all the world being destroyed or do we pass him straight to heaven?

@bugsocsollie1694

Ай бұрын

Actually, they are mixing (combining) Israel's doctrine with our (the Body of Christ Church) doctrine. These two doctrines are supposed to be rightly divided. Revelation is Israel's prophecy for their last days. It's Israel's 70th week of their prophecy. It has nothing to do with the Body of Christ Church. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 Paul (our Apostle), say the Departure happens before the man of sin is revealed. The man of sin is revealed when he confirms Israel's covenant for one week: Israel's 70th week of prophecy. We are taken out of the way before he is revealed.

@bugsocsollie1694

Ай бұрын

​ Jesus was not talking to the Body of Christ Church. He was talking to Israel. He came to fulfill Israel's prophecy (Romans 15:8). He sent Paul to talk to the Body after Israel fell and diminished (Romans 11:11-12), that's when salvation (was of the Jews and will be again) came to the Gentiles by way of the Dispensation of Grace given to Paul. Ephesians 3:1-2

@marcokite

Ай бұрын

Well Holy Church has taught for 2,000 years that there is no 'rapture' of ANY kind whatsoever. Meeting the Lord in the air etc refers to the Second Coming and Last Judgement. The 'rapture' was invented in the 1800s!! Investigate Holy Orthodoxy.

@bugsocsollie1694

Ай бұрын

@marcokite That's just stupid. The catching away is in the KJB which is 250 years before Darby. In fact its in the Wycliffe English translation which is 250 older than the KJB. Who told you that nonsense? The "holy church"???

Further, the relief accorded to the saints in 2 Thessalonians 1 equates with the relief promised to the 5th Seal Martyrs in Revelation 6:9-11. It is the relief of justice. The ultimate relief though follows the Great White Throne judgment when those who persecuted the Thessalonian church will be resurrected to final judgment. Revelation 20:11-15.

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your feedback! I've heard this response in the past, and while I appreciate that idea, I don't think it is a more persuasive reading of "relief" in context here. The promise that God will "grant *relief* to you who are *afflicted*" (v 7) most naturally connects God's granting "relief" to the time that the being "afflicted" ceases. 2 Thessalonians 1:5-8 [5] This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering- [6] since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, [7] and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels [8] in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

@nonexistenttheologian

29 күн бұрын

@@MarkNorthAveChurch understood; however, the afflicted people to which Paul referred are already dead. So “relief” in our future will will have zero impact on their actual affliction; it will, however, bring them justice.

To begin, I can’t thank you enough for all of these wonderful teachings. I enjoy all of them and often go back And listen to them again to take notes. Here is my question: I have read recently read that the pre-tribulation-rapture-view *has* been alluded to/believed before the 1830’s i.e. The Didache is often cited. What are your thoughts on this argument? If it’s too involved to answer here, maybe you could mention it in next weeks live stream? 😊

@donnajess1918

Ай бұрын

Yes thats true

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

I've read a number of example of people arguing for a pretribulation rapture in the early church over the years. Many of the examples given are not nearly as clear as is sometimes claimed. I find it interesting that some of the best credible scholars around today who hold to the pretribulation rapture say that it first clearly appears and is systematized by John Nelson Darby around the 1830's. Craig Blaising (Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary), whom I quoted in this video, argues for the pretrib rapture in the book "Three Views on the Rapture." He himself credits Darby as the first one to clearly articulate the pretribulation rapture. I don't remember the source, but I remember John MacArthur saying that Premillennialism was big in the early church (which is correct), but that the timing in relationship to the rapture of Christ wasn't worked out until much later (I hope I'm not misquoting that!). If it was taught by some individuals before Darby (which I'm open to but am yet to be convcined of!), it certainly wasn't taught widely and clearly until Darby.

@seattlecloudchaser7295

Ай бұрын

@@MarkNorthAveChurch Thank you so much for the reply, Pastor Mark. Many blessings to you and your family!

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

@@seattlecloudchaser7295 Thank you! And same to you!

@kaiba291

23 күн бұрын

You do not know what it is your saying because you do not read your Bible lies

I don't think you've done your "Eschatological" homework in light of some things you stated. I consider you a brother, and if you love Jesus and confess him before men, are born again, and are His, according to the scriptures, you're saved from the wrath in the Tribulation period. As a side note, I don't believe it would be profitable to engage with you about this subject, but I'm curious about your focus? Do you have a Godly desire to witness Jesus Christ and Him crucified to all men? Not that it matters, but I'm an itinerant pastor and 67 years old. BTW, I "land" where John MacArthur lands on this Eschatological subject.

@jamesenewold8864

Ай бұрын

The concept of God using satan as a form of judgement/purification is all throughout the Bible and is fundamental and easily proven. The wrath during the Tribulation period is satan's wrath i.e Gods purifying judgement. The scripture clearly state this in Rev 12, which just so happens to have full context to the discussion.

@dahcargo

Ай бұрын

@@jamesenewold8864God uses Satan all the time, but we're talking about the wrath of God on this world for unbelievers and the Jews so that they will be saved as a result. Christians are not created unto wrath, but unto salvation which occurs at the time of our new birth. I'm waiting for the Rapture, not the second coming. These are two different events that are spelled out in scripture with definitive modes of initiation and results. The second coming is clearly taught by Jesus Himself and spoken by Daniel the Prophet as He also cited in Matthew 24. I remind everyone who's "paying attention" to rejoice in your salvation. The words of the LORD are flawless like silver purified in a crucible like gold refined seven times. Check it out, you'll be blessed and not someone awaiting to be "beaten" up at the time of "Jacob's" trouble. I'm not sure if you're given to Replacement theology or not, but if you are, you've entered into the worst "identity" theft I've seen in my lifetime. If you read the New Testament into the old and then change the meaning of the Old Testament, you've been deceived. Christians are not the new Jews, we are the spiritual descendants of Abraham, not the physical "seed" of Abraham. I believe that James (Jesus' half-brother) puts it this way in James 1, speaking of Jesus, He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of " first fruits" of all he created, we are a prized possession not like the descendants of Abraham who are the "elect" as seen in Isaiah 45:4 and mentioned in Revelation as those who at "that time" will be saved for their sake, the Jews/Elect. Give yourself to the scriptures, they are able to make you wise unto salvation.

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

@dahcargo Thank you for watching and for your comment! I very much believer we can all be brothers in Christ despite differences regarding the timing and the exact events surroudning the rapture and return of Christ. I also appreciate your desire to fous on hte gospel and Christ crucified! I agree entirely. Just so you know, since our church began eight years ago, we have made it our aim to talk about the gospel in just about every single sermon on Sundays. So we have focused on Christ crucified at least a hundred times more often than our view on the post-tribulation rapture! That being said, we also believe this issue still matters because it pretty dramatically effects how we read Revealtion 6-19, and since we're doing summer series in these chapters, it seemed worthwhile to argue (we hope graciously!) for the position we take.

@dahcargo

Ай бұрын

​@@MarkNorthAveChurch At the time of the Rapture you will be pleasantly surprised. It's odd, most so-called Christians don't even know that this world will, as Jesus, Peter, Daniel, John, and a plethora of biblical characters teach this truth. Can you imagine how much joy and peace you could teach many with this reality? I'm so much more involved in the ministry of God's word knowing our time on earth is short, I like to bless others with this truth. BTW, I'm glad you told me your focus is, "We have focused on Christ crucified at least a hundred times more often than our view on the post-tribulation rapture! Just curious, what you think about the time during the Tribulation when God sends his 144,000 evangelists, the two witnesses, and the Gospel angel? I believe God does that just in light of our removal. My God is good and a saving God, and always has been. We Christians are the temple of the Holy Spirit, Paul is clear about this. Our bodies are not our own, we were bought with a price. Can you imagine what this world will be going through? No wonder why people will want to "have the rocks" to fall on them. The evangelists would be preaching to the choir. No, we won't be here, but as John says in Revelation, he witnessed this whole thing happen right before his eyes. Praise God, and give your congregation some hope, the blessed hope, without which we would be confused. I know, I must sound like I'm rambling, but I can't help it, God's word is flooding my 67-year-old mind. All of the people I "shepherd" rejoice with me. You will be pleasantly surprised. It's odd, most so-called Christians don't even know that this world will be thrown into hell. "there are many" who go through the wide gate and only a few, a remnant, who will experience the Kingdom of heaven. Can you imagine how much joy and peace you could teach many with this reality? I'm so much more involved in the ministry of God's word knowing our time on earth is short, I like to bless others with this truth.

I thought God has pretty plain speech if you take all scripture in context as were supposed to! Matthew 13:29-30 KJV But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. Matthew 13:37-43 KJV He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42. And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. John 6:39-40 KJV And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 11:24 KJV Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Catholics don't understand that the Seed is the Word of God that grows the wheat which makes the bread from heaven, they think your supposed to eat flesh and not the Word that gives life.

@jamesenewold8864

Ай бұрын

More than just catholics, but yes

so you think God is going to pour His wrath out on the church and break His word. Right so the church wasnt around for Daniel's 69 weeks why do you think we will be here for the 70th?

@whittakerdanielj

27 күн бұрын

That shows you were not paying attention to what was being taught. The church is protected from the wrath of God. In that verse it talks about preserving through, not preserving from. This shows God's testimony to the wicked about those who are his and above all who the Lord God is.

@tomwilson2107

27 күн бұрын

@@whittakerdanielj right except the word church isn't used after chapter 3 in revelation. want to explain that?

@tomwilson2107

27 күн бұрын

@@whittakerdanielj why the imagery of John being called to heaven? after all he was already talking face to face with Jesus

@whittakerdanielj

27 күн бұрын

@@tomwilson2107 believers are referred to as more than just as church. They're also referred to as saints and holy ones. Pay attention to that. More than what a pastor repeating what he's been told and not question it. As a believer, the Holy spirit lives inside of us and directs us into all truth. If a pastor is not willing to question what he was taught by his human teachers who are also taught, then we are just like the rest of the world and we only believe whatever we're told.

@tomwilson2107

27 күн бұрын

@@whittakerdanielj right they're called the church in the first 3 chapters but not after that. well you seem to believe what you're told and have no answer for why the church will be under the wrath of God and there is no escaping that wrath for those on th earth during the tribulation

ATKINS FOR GOD CHAFFEE FOR PRESIDENT

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

@JackAtkins-tt2vg, I hope you're not running for God! Thankfully, that position is occupied already!

The millennial has both glorified humans and non glorified humans. The non human live a long time and procreate. Glorified doesn’t die and doesn’t reproduce. If there is no pretrib rapture then explain how the non glorified get in the millennial and procreate? Because rapture at second coming would not allow anyone to enter as you have to be righteous and Jesus defeats all the unbelievers at end of tribulation

@kaleamendez4953

27 күн бұрын

Please show me the scriptures that say there will be people with non glorified bodies that are procreating after Jesus returns with his wrath.

@kenpoe9277

27 күн бұрын

@@kaleamendez4953 if you read the scripture on it you’d see that ppl die during millennial imost live 900 some years but the cursed are short lived to 100 or so. Glorified ppl can’t die

@kaleamendez4953

27 күн бұрын

@@kenpoe9277 can you please share the scripture that teaches this

@kenpoe9277

27 күн бұрын

@@kaleamendez4953 Isaiah 65:20 “No longer will babies die when only a few days old. No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life. No longer will people be considered old at one hundred! Only the cursed will die that young!

@kaleamendez4953

27 күн бұрын

@@kenpoe9277 “And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50-55‬ ‭KJV‬‬ It clearly says there will be no more death when the Lord returns. When He returns He will have completely decimated death and sin. Nobody with a mortal body who hasn’t been transfigured will be able to enter in to the new heaven and earth “new Jerusalem”

Brothers - there is NO 'rapture' of ANY kind whatsoever. Meeting the Lord in the air etc refers to the Second Coming and Last Judgement. The 'rapture' was invented in the 1800s!!

@kaiba291

23 күн бұрын

What a pack of lies from a disbeliever 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 and some me who do not know his or her Bible

If you look at how many viewers you brothers have and look at how many viewers pre-trib channels have, you will know why Paul said what he did in 2Thes 2:3 and 2Tm4:3-4. Most people will believe A LIE. (Pre-trib rapture) Yours in Christ

@MarkNorthAveChurch

Ай бұрын

Thanks for your comments! I definitely believe that the pre-tribulation rapture view has been the predominant one in the United States for about 125 years now. And while I disagree with the pre-tribulation view and think it does change how we read a good number of Bible passages, I wouldn't consider someone a false teacher who teaches it. It is definitely an area for Christian charity along with other matters of secondary importance.

@markhauserbible7168

Ай бұрын

@@MarkNorthAveChurch A false teacher is someone who teaches FALSE DOCTRINE. Most false teachings as you said, lead into OTHER false teachings. Thank goodness this is NOT a salvation issue. ITS A TRUTH ISSUE.

@marcokite

Ай бұрын

There is NO 'rapture' of ANY kind whatsoever. Meeting the Lord in the air etc refers to the Second Coming and Last Judgement. The 'rapture' was invented in the 1800s!!

There are 5 fundamental considerations (along with many additional factors), clearly indicating that the church must be removed from earth prior to the tribulation: 1. The church is the bride of Christ (Revelation 19:7, John 3:29), and God promised the saints constituting the church that they would not face His wrath (Romans 5:9, 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and 5:9), which is poured out on the earth during the tribulation (Revelation 6:16-17, 11:18, 14:19, 15:1, 15:7 & Revelation 16); rather, the promise to the saints constituting the church is for sequestration and protection (Isaiah 26:20-21, John 14:1-3-with parallels of Noah, Rahab, Lot & his family, and Enoch-all of which are not Jewish people). 2. The basis for salvation changes during the tribulation period. Now, before the tribulation, we obtain forgiveness of sin and eternal life by believing in and accepting the sacrifice of Jesus and His resurrection. (John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10). During the tribulation, however, in addition to believing in Jesus, a person must also refuse to worship the Antichrist, and a person must also reject the Antichrist’s mark (Revelation 14:9-10). This is why Jesus said that the Gospel during the tribulation is one of endurance (Matthew 24:9-14). The change in the standard for salvation is best implemented by first removing the saints constituting the church; otherwise, many saved people risk losing their salvation. 3. God needs to complete His plan for the descendants of Jacob (i.e.,the final “seven”-year period-of Gabriel’s prophecy to Daniel as recorded in Daniel 9:24-27-which prophecy is expressly related to Jerusalem and Daniel’s people), which has been suspended during the time of the church (Romans 11:25-26). The fact that the plan of God is directed almost exclusively towards Israel & Jerusalem in the tribulation is evidenced by the attacks on Israel during the tribulation (Ezekiel 38-39), which are described like a locust invasion of Israel (Judges 7:12, Joel 1, Isaiah 33:4 & Amos 7:1-6), the battle of Armageddon occurring in Israel (Revelation 16:12-16, 19:11-20), the special seal being given only to 144,000 “sons of Israel” (Revelation 7:1-8), and Jesus returning to earth at the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:4). This is starkly different from the plan of God during the pre-tribulation period for the entire world (John 3:16 & Matthew 28:19-20). 4. During the tribulation, God uses special Gospel proclaimers, including the 2 witnesses (Revelation 11:1-13), an eagle (Revelation 8:13), and 3 angels (Revelation 14:6-11)-strongly suggesting that the church is no longer present to spread the Gospel. 5. There are indications in Scripture of a pre-tribulation harvest. See, for example, Amos 7:1-6, where the “king’s crop” has already been taken before the “spring crop” of tribulation saints are harvested, the latter of which occurs during or as a consequence of the assault on Israel and the descendants of Jacob. The king’s crop represents the church-taken before the start of the tribulation. The later crop represents people who become saints and die during the tribulation. There is extensive additional information in support of a pre-tribulation rapture. The overwhelming scope of information demonstrates the undeniability of the pre-tribulation rapture. Maranatha!

@bugsocsollie1694

Ай бұрын

The Body of Christ Church is not the Bride of Christ. We are His Body. Ephesians 5:28-30. The bride will make herself ready. Israel will be the Bride. The Book of Revelation has nothing to do with the Body of Christ Church. It's Israel's prophecy of their last days. There may be a couple of spots in Revelation that include us (rejoice you that dwell in the heavens), but it's not our prophecy.

@nonexistenttheologian

29 күн бұрын

@@bugsocsollie1694 appreciate the thoughts, but I wholeheartedly disagree. Maranatha!

@bugsocsollie1694

29 күн бұрын

@nonexistenttheologian Yeah, 5 years ago, I would have disagreed also. I used to think I was part of "spiritual Israel" and before I understood and acknowledged the mysteries revealed to Paul (Colossians 2:2). Before I saw the fellowship of the mystery that God wants us all to see (Ephesians 3:9). It turns out that none of those verses of Scripture were saying what I thought they were saying. I had lots of bad doctrine. I'm still getting rid of bad doctrine, but now I know I'm not Israel or a part of Israel's prophecy.

I disagree heavily with RC Sproul, but I agree that there is no "pre-tribulation" that's just the thing about protestantism though. when all you have is the bible no one can say for certain what any verse in Bible actually means. and when all you have is sola scriptura, and there are two logically consistent interpretations of a verse that directly oppose each other, you logically come to a single conclusion which often results in congnitive dissonance. sola scriptura is a false doctrine.

@chrisjohnson9542

Ай бұрын

With all due respect to you as a person, to say that sola scriptura is wrong because some people have read the bible wrong is ridiculous. The bible is the ONLY infallible authority. Period. That's what Sola scriptura is saying. Not that everyone's interpretation is correct. Some things are harder to understand just like Peter says in scripture.

@bugsocsollie1694

Ай бұрын

If you can read what Scripture says, you can know what it says. Those who don't agree with what it says, are the ones feeling the need to interpret it to say something else that they can agree with. The Departure happens before the ac is revealed.

@jamesenewold8864

Ай бұрын

​@@bugsocsollie1694classic projection