good refresh. many times we get too much info (especially when learning new stuff) because we are all in our own journey. we hear the same thing 6 months a part, it will hit differently. Good stuff.

@KasbashPlays

13 күн бұрын

"many times we get too much info" This really resonates with me. Not to mention the information overlap from the same channel. This isn't to say that it's a bad thing necessarily but very few channels like Cullen's, know how to handle that deftly.

I had assumed that they are the same, but I appreciate the proof laid out clearly.

We enjoy your videos. Thanks for covering this topic, it helps to clarify a point that a lot of people get confused about. Thanks Cullen.

Great information. The color management that Resolve does is excellent and used even on our biggest features. The auto color management is good for many projects. It takes some knowledge to set up the CSC nodes to match the RCM full automatic mode. The node based approach gives you flexibility when cameras or footage is not properly supported by the built in transforms. As well it gives flexibility on using output luts. This is typically how we utilize the resolve tools as it provides the consistent built in help with color management, but can be customized if something weird comes along.

@JasonBowdach

13 күн бұрын

Great info! Thanks Joseph.

Thank you Cullen - Not new news. BUT always useful to hear you working methodology and the reasons behind your working concepts. Your group application of CSTs confirmed my own methods for multi-cam grading.

Great demo to show the differences. Personally like using node based management but love having both options available.

Thank you. This is extremely helpful!

I started using the 'group' function recently and have found it to be helpful and efficient. I am also a fan of node-based color grading, I tried the Resolve color management system for a while but the node-based structure works better for me. Thank you for posting this video.

Very helpful Mr. Kelley. I’ve always wondered if there was a difference. Thank you

Thanks for the refresh and confirmation they’re both the same. A related aspect I’m not as clear on when using Group CST is where to place a LUT for a particular look. Especially when the LUT is made for Rec709 footage.

@nowhereland_2

12 күн бұрын

If the LUT is made for 709, you’d place it after the CST that outputs to Rec 709. For example, my first node is always a CST that converts my log footage to DWG (Davinci Wide Gamut and Davinci Intermediate) then I have 6-7 nodes after for color grading, and then finally my last CST that’s converts it from DWG to Rec 709. So you’d add another node after the CST converting DWG to 709 and add the LUT on.

@Moustafa11

12 күн бұрын

@@nowhereland_2 thank you. That makes sense, and that’s what I’ve done at the clip level. I wasn’t sure if this would be same at the Group level as an Out CST as well.

Awesome explanation Cullen.

A little more detail to finish. Round trip past the RD3 clip to prove the point on all clips. Also, perhaps compare with using camera manufacturer LUTs for the previously poorly informed - who might mistakenly double up in colour management. In another forum that I lurk in, colour management double up problem is surprisingly common. And an easy trap to fall into. Cheers. Was looking forward to your next drop of wisdom.

@JeffBourke

11 күн бұрын

i think the point has been proved.

Wonderful information Kelly. I am beginning to use DaVinci Resolve and learning some important stuff is really helpful especially to color grade multiple clips at the same time. I initially thought you would like DaVinci Color Management better as you have an array of DaVinci Keyboards and other color management tools. Thanks for sharing.

This is very helpful, thanks for making videos for people like me who are still at the very beginning of the journey.

Cullen, thanks for this

Good refresher!

Perfect explanation

I love love love the new setup ;)

Much needed! Thanks.

Last step is new for me. thank you

Thanks for all

Funny coincidence: Yesterday I was discussing with some other filmmakers which is better. So thank you for the short and very clear clarification! I prefer color management because of its simplicity (fewer knots, fewer sources of error when you are short on time). In normal cases (shooting in log, fairly simple color grading) I don't see any advantage in using CSTs.

Thanks for clarifying!

You're simply the best teacher

Wow man, thanks for showing how to use grouping to add the CST nodes to multiple clips without having to do it for all clips individually, huge timesaver for real!! You earned a new sub! Thanks for sharing.

"Thank you so much. I have learned a lot from you. I can't say thank you enough. It was a good refresher for me."😊

Thank you.

Love this thanks

Thanks to your videos, I'm familiar with it, but I'll teach beginners RCM. I taught them node-based before and some got confused. RCM may be a set-it-and-forget-it way for beginners to get good results.

Super helpful.

Just a note: when using Davinci YRGB, in the project settings, the "timeline color space" setting will affect the CST nodes if you choose the "Use timeline" option for gamut/gamma for the node. I would never do this but it's helpful to know that they're linked that way.

@Karlabacken

13 күн бұрын

I was just wondering about this. For output gamut/gamma couldn’t you just put “Use timeline” in the CST in node? As he already selected the same setting as timeline gamut/gamma in the project settings.

@JSalas-fh9xb

13 күн бұрын

@InLightVFX: Can you please elaborate? So are you saying that we should never leave it as “timeline color space” ? I thought he said it didn’t matter what you set that to?? I’m a bit confused now. Thx in advance.

@InLightVFX

12 күн бұрын

@@JSalas-fh9xb The color space that you choose here at 3:02 for "timeline color space" (in this case set to Davinci WG/Intermediate) is the color space that will be used in the CST node when "use timeline" is selected (which is set by default as you can see at 3:14). If you're still confused, just basically never select "use timeline" in the CST node - and then it doesn't matter what you put for the overall "timeline color space".

I always use the node-based workflow because I often work with graphics and lower 3rds, and the workarounds to bypass RCM or reverse the color management applied to them is more of a tedious workaround than it needs to be, especially with transitions and effects. With transitions, I end up having to use nodes anyways because I have to bypass both clips on either side of the transition because there's no way to color manage the transition itself.

@Jeff_Lathrop

13 күн бұрын

try using an adjustment layer over the transition and media layers to affect them both!

One thing I have found different between the two approaches is related to qualifying. When doing so using RCM, I have no problem since it seems to qualify based on the Rec709 image (despite still working within DWG), however when using CST's, it's more difficult since it's using the, I'll say, washed out version from the DWG colorspace. I notice this when highlighting. I prefer using CST's because it just makes it easier for me when using effects or LUTs that I prefer using in Rec709

I’m finding myself using cst more than project. Even though for ARRI raw I like the project based. I’m refreshing my Reel and playing with my original footage and the CST and group ling has been very practical

Hi Cullen, you're one of the few colorists who outputs to Gamma 2.2. If that is so, do you also calibrate your monitor to Gamma 2.2?

@botbot3698

13 күн бұрын

Yes

BTW I knew all you talked about because of your great previous videos. Can you do a video how you might use the new grouping 4 dots that are available??

I love you. thanks

Great video! thanks for sharing. I have some questions to ask you. What happens if the timeline has graphic files or different cameras, wouldn't it be better to handle it at the clip level? And secondly, can you make a CST group (as you did) and put together other groups by scenes? can a clip be in two groups? thank you so much!

You don't need an out converter, just select the timeline in WG/intermediate color space and gamma, then set up the right CST for the clip so it appears correctly on your screen. You can start grading. The Out node mathematically is not necessary. You just select the desired color space TAG on the Delivery page.

@CullenKelly

10 күн бұрын

Hmm, not sure I follow here, but I can confirm there’s nothing redundant or unnecessary in the steps I’m showing here!

Thanks!! Finally…

Cullen, why do you use Gamma 2.2 now when you used to use Gamma 2.4 before?

@brandonlazo

13 күн бұрын

It's just a preference of him. In other videos he used to use 2.2 too for devices like iphones or ipads because these have a gama of 2.2

I have a question that I hope you'll be able to answer next Monday: what's your go to method for addressing conforming when starting a project? Do you recommend a specific workflow for that phase of the job? Thanks for your videos Cullen, see you on Monday!

Thanks Cullen. This was indeed a useful review. I would however like to know more about your RCM custom settings, e.g. why is something your "preference". And how are your custom settings replicated in the CST version to produce the same result?

This is very new to me

💥My favorite process for working with color is to use CST. This way I see the color correction process better and it is more logical in terms of placement and legibility of the work stages. When managing DaVinci's color, the process of observing the step-by-step tracking of the work is cut off here.

Would you be able to comment on how to use node based color management but still benefit from the new CSTs in the Fusion page? Thx Cullen.

From my observation, I prefer to work with RCM because node based CST is destructive because when CST clipping, it can't be reversed and I have to use a repair node before the first IN CST. Also if I use CST node based in DWG, most tools in resolve work worse with DWG because they are designed for Rec709 and are too sensitive, Except for some like HDR which are space aware. For RCM, I can tick the Color space aware feature in the settings. Maybe I'm making a mistake somewhere, but I have an easier life with RCM:)

👏 👏 👏

I think you should make a video about why you like it that way. You mention using CSTs in groups a lot but i don't ever see you doing stuff before or after the CST nodes, or changing them per shot, which would be a reason to use CSTs. Also the way you use groups seems like you are not using groups per scene or any other 'grouping' of your project. The real answer might just be that you like to see them to keep an eye on everything.

Hello, thank you for this video ! Why don't you put tone mapping in the "in" corrector ? Is it better to apply the Pro Mist diffusion filter effect with the diffused glow after the "out" corrector ?

I prefer Groups because I also like to see what’s going on. If I’m giving a file to someone else, it would be RCM.

I know you can get identical results, but I am curious about which settings need to be tweaked so that the waveforms don't move. You can see as you toggle on and off at 4:10, in the green and blue channel, a couple of small shifts. While probably not visually noticeable, I am curious what causes the different waveforms. Definitely agree that the results can be identical and they are doing the same operations in the same way, but it seems that there is a tiny settings difference in one of them. If i ignore the image, i can tell when you are switching between by watching the waveform change.

Hello folks! How do you use the group post clip level of your node graph vs the timeline level? Do you use the timeline level only for the output transform or what else do you use it for? Thankful for answers.

Thanks for the video! Only question is - why not use the "CST Out" node in the "Group Post-Clip" tab vs. the "Timeline" tab as shown in the video? Since using the "CST Out" on the entire timeline would then affect the whole project vs. affecting only the assigned group clips we need, right?

❤❤

How does this work if you have images and motion graphics in your timeline? Won't the input colour space effect the way those things look too?

Hello Cullen, I believe (unless I missed something), that is not true anymore that in Davinci YRGB, the timeline colorspace and output colorspace are just tags and never influence the grading. Actually, the HDR wheels are colorspace sensitive even in Davinci YRGB, so the timeline colospace has an impact in DVYRGB for that tool.

great video as usual! question: because i sometimes have to integrate external graphics and images into my videos (which are “rec709” or at least not in a log format), i usually put my output CST on the group post-clip rather than the timeline level, and have the group assigned to the clips which share the same camera/log format, similar to what you have done here. is there any advantage, workflow or technical, to using the timeline node graph for the output CST instead? thanks!

Why did you choose Gamma 2.2 for the output color space instead of Gamma 2.4?

@06:23 is there ever any reason to make adjustments (for a individual clip) before the CST? Noise reduction? Levels?

Could you explain the reasoning behind having the output as 709 gamma 2.2 instead of 2.4? Is your monitor setup for 2.2? I understand that internet delivery likes 2.2 over 2.4. I usually do a timeline CST of 2.4>2.2...

Hello Cullen! thanks for all the very informative videos. I am trying to apply this CST workflow to footage shot Prores RAW that was then converted to cDNG. How should I be interpreting the cDNG files? Ultimately I would prefer to have my cDNG transcoded to DNxHR with logC3, and then work with that. However I can't seem to understand how I just get the cDNG files looking correct in the first place. cheers!

At the 2 minute mark, after you set up RCM with input color space ARRIlogc3, what is the reason that you had to again specify the ARRIlogC3 input color space for clips 2 through 6?

What if you do CST, the sandwich, in the entire timeline? I have experienced that the results are different if we use it in the timeline or clip by clip

Please cover DRTs (like JP's 2499) in your upcoming AMA👍

Confirmed news :)

I'm thinking if every shot in your timeline is of the same camera and format, RCM may be the better choice? ..as CSTs would be the better choice if there were multiple camera formats etc on the timeline? ..saves time .. 🤔

Ok, so you customize the RCM? What happens if you just use the full auto option? Another question; where would you put Noise Reduction using your system? before or after the pre-clip CST?

Does it affect how the curves or the gamma or the HDR knobs affect the picture? or is it the same values both ways. I get all confused on this color stuff.

what's the difference between gamma 2.2 vs 2.4?

Thanks for your help. Is it okay to output from sRGB to sRGB or sRGB to gamma 2.2? I have a normal HP Z display monitor. When I output to sRGB to sRGB, my contrast tone sets well initially. However, with Rec. 709 gamma 2.2, the contrast level looks somewhat washed out.

I didnt know this thanks.

thanks! so if you do Davinci Color Managed, when you start your grade, are you grading on TOP of the color space now? so wouldn't it be better to do nodes, first node being the davinci wide gamut, do the grade, then the last node being the Rec709 or whatever? then you grade in between in the larger color space right?

@aaronwalterscheid4496

11 күн бұрын

It works the same way, if the timeline color space is set to DaVinci wide gamut, then all of the grading is happening in that color space and Resolve is automatically converting it to Rec709 or whatever it’s set to at the very end.

Hai Cullen, appreciate all your videos. But maybe this question little bit noob question. What happen if the CST In and Out placed on Timeline not group? is it the same method? Are the CST In always in Group level, or we can do in Timeline level? Thanks Cullen.

Cullen, just wondering why you placed the output CST for the Log-C group in the timeline instead of the one for end of the group? With different media types that are not using Log-C would that not adversely affect them?

interesting that you put your out cst in timeline and not post clip, wouldn't this effect anything you add above, text, etc?

Was old news, but….. using rcm , is it as if there is a cst at the front and back? Because I do cst’s but if I used rcm’s in dwg would I still be grading as if the cst’s are at the front and back like you just had in the video? Or is is as if it’s like having it just at the end? I’ve always wondered that. I know they both will look the same, but with resolve Color managed workflow, is there going to be a way to use the nodes that would make a difference , because sometimes I like to have nodes before csts and after, but I know you can’t use them the same. But I’m curious what you all think of the question all the same! . Thanks guys. Great community, I love the channel wel done!

Are you using linear gamma on the Prim node or just luminosity? Sorry I know is off topic but I got a bit confused.

lmao, you got me with the title :D

RCM if all clips shot with same color space, but CST in opposite case

Sorry noob question: why do we need to transform to Davinci Wide Gamut & Davinci Intermediate first? Can't we just make a single CST node and convert directly from ARRI to Rec 709?

This technique modifies my image when I do it with videos in REC709.

CST!

It's weird in ursa mini pro

Basically knew all you talked about. It was nice to see you workflow, that is a great help.

RCM really is better as it declutters your nodes.

One more stupid question; why gamma 2.2, and not 2.4 or rec709(A) on apple devices?

This is great, but when you have a sub £1000 camera that Resolve doesn't have your camera's colour input it leaves me a little stuck.

t es qu top

LUTs, however, are very much not the same as CST

Who's the amateur asking which one is better?

lessons on 8bit footages

Personally, I like the control and customisability of a CST workflow but find myself using RCM on larger projects to free up the groups for creative purposes. I wish we could get a multi-layered grouping workflow in Resolve.