Thanks to Tom Meaden for researching this episode. It is our community which keep us going through these difficult times and enable us to produce such a range of content. The greatest help you can provide right now is joining the TimeGhost Army or upping your existing pledge. You can do so via www.patreon.com/TimeGhostHistory or timeghost.tv. Please let us know what other Bio's you'd like to see. And if you would like to know something about a smaller topic, make sure to submit that as a question for our Q&A series, Out of the Foxholes. You can do that right here: community.timeghost.tv/c/Out-of-the-Foxholes-Qs. Cheers, Francis *RULES OF CONDUCT* STAY CIVIL AND POLITE we will delete any comments with personal insults, or attacks. AVOID PARTISAN POLITICS AS FAR AS YOU CAN we reserve the right to cut off vitriolic debates. HATE SPEECH IN ANY DIRECTION will lead to a ban. RACISM, XENOPHOBIA, OR SLAMMING OF MINORITIES will lead to an immediate ban. PARTISAN REVISIONISM, ESPECIALLY HOLOCAUST AND HOLODOMOR DENIAL will lead to an immediate ban.

@jshadowhunter

4 жыл бұрын

Is there gonna be any talk about Leon Rupnik? Being stuck between a rock and a hard place could also be ascribed to him if you look closely at his actions, which can't really be seen with a naked eye, prior and after he becale Slovenian collaborator.

@napoleonbonaparte4776

4 жыл бұрын

Philippe petain?

@josiplisica93

4 жыл бұрын

Fuck yugoslavia

@crazymennonite

4 жыл бұрын

Just became a Patreon member, your videos have really helped me learn a lot over the years. I’ve always had a great interest in military history and this is the best source for that I have found. Oh and my wife also likes watching some of them but maybe that’s because she thinks Indy looks cool lol

@doolittlegeorge

4 жыл бұрын

Excellent work in this difficult and indeed death defying time of our own Age. Tito had no problems standing up to both the USSR and any other revanchist Powers post World War 2 in the name of Yugoslavia so he makes for an interesting counterpoint to what became a European cataclysmic that would shake the very idea of Western *Civilization* to it's core. By this point in the War the Nazis had secured good relations with Turkey so how Stalin could overlook all of this remains quite the mystery. *The aura of German invincibility* I think weighs heavily in this breathtaking point in time. Rommel exceeding his orders makes sense in this context as well. This is truly no idle mischief on the part of The Fuhrer who truly can see a *Thousand Year Reich* emerging before his eyes at this point in the War. How could this not go to anyone's head as a consequence? I think it cannot of course.

Paul is not that popular in our history, but yea he was victim of circumstance, he was stuck between a rock and a hard place. After fall of Milosevic regime Paul was rehabilitated in 2011 and an year later his remains where brought back in Serbia and reburied at the family crypt.

@TheWedabest

4 жыл бұрын

Do you think the same thing could happen to slob someday? If the same thing could happen with mihajlovic..?

@Blazo_Djurovic

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheWedabest Slob? Slobodan Milosevic?

@TheWedabest

4 жыл бұрын

@Marko Djokovic oh course Mihajlovic was going to get a fair trial. He's side lost. But it does make you think how people will see those individuals long after they are gone! And the people of that time

@Languslangus

4 жыл бұрын

He was a traitor.

@jovanpilcevic2862

4 жыл бұрын

@Marko Djokovic Slobo should have been covicted and inprisoned by us not Hague.

Paul daughter Jelisaveta is actually very popular in Serbia, she is still alive and have many interviews describing her father and the whole period from the coup until Kenya and exile in general. She is currently much more popular then our current "crown prince" Alexander (son of Peter II) who is also back living in Serbia with his family. Only after fall of communism people actually realized in which position Paul was back then. Great leader who tried to do the best to avoid the worst. Also research well done for this episode!

@BokicaK1

4 жыл бұрын

She is not popular much, though. She nominated herself for president of Serbia and won only 2% votes.

@rogyn8484

4 жыл бұрын

​@@BokicaK1 That is true, however that nomination as I remember was more symbolic and less political so lot of candidates except the main two could not afford all those sponsors money, TV marketing and payed supporters. Many of those side candidates (some regular citizens) not had even a single rally (and those two main got money because they were of course pure puppets of different interest groups, lobbyist, foreign ambassadors etc). Maybe saying popular is not the best translation of what I would say, but she is definitely respected and down to earth with real manners comparing to "crown prince" who can not even learn a proper Serbian for all this time being here (because of which many people dislikes him). I respect his donation works and support in different actions/public life humanitarian help, as well as Jelisaveta, but she is simply another level then the whole family of our supposed future "king".

@BokicaK1

4 жыл бұрын

@@rogyn8484 Well, it is true that people has not much to say against her and she is not often present in public. Also, she is not irritating as much as her distant relative

@hamd8375

4 жыл бұрын

@@user-fj5wn9iq5r Ahh, I thought there weren't Arabs that watched this other than me, I'm quite glad

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

It's kinda funny to revisit the adventures of all those (descendants of) former Balkan monarchs after communism fell. Practically everybody everywhere made some effort at restauration but none ever succeeded. Romania's Michael was practically at war with Iliescu and for the longest time was barely even alllowed back home. Bulgaria's Simon served as Prime Minister in the 2000s. Yugoslavia's Elizabeth started in presidential elections. And the son of Albania's Zog managed to have a referendum organized, which some say might have been forged to allow the post-communist a continued republican rule.

This tie alone warrants a casus belli. I love it.

A traitor works against the best interests of his or her Country usually in favor of a foreign power. Everything Prince Paul did was to protect his nation and people. Yugoslavia was too weak to stand on its own and the Allies were unable or unwilling to help. So, he made the best deal he could for his Nation.

@cv4809

4 жыл бұрын

Same with pettain and quisling

@Somewhat-Evil

4 жыл бұрын

@@cv4809 Pettain maybe, but Quisling definitely crossed the line IMO.

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

@@cv4809 Umm, no. Both of these guys were elevated to positions government _after_ their countries already fell to Germany. Weren't it for them, others would have taken their place (if at all seeing how useless Quisling was to Germans anyway).

@visaodissidente5560

3 жыл бұрын

The only reason this silly discussion exists is because Germany lost the war and went down in history as the "bad side".

@DeosPraetorian

2 жыл бұрын

@@visaodissidente5560 but it was the bad side

Allies: Betray Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland Also Allies: How can Yugoslavia betray us?

@LucidFL

4 жыл бұрын

dont forget Ethiopia and China

@Wawrzon161

4 жыл бұрын

don't forget the Arabs

@Biker_Gremling

4 жыл бұрын

You forgot about France and England betraying Belgium, Also France betrayed England and vice versa.

@Solidoaf

4 жыл бұрын

Think betrayed is a strong word. Probably in most situations they wanted to help (either out of selfish or non selfish reasons), but lacked the means. But they promised they could, which wasn't honest. Just comes down to realpolitik on geopolitical chestboard.

@sirgreil

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Biker_Gremling I'd say Belgium let down Britain and France rather than vice versa. Their refusing of access to allied troops before the German invasion prevented the establishment of strong defensive positions and necessitated the allied advance through Belgium, which created the "hinge" in the Ardennes the wehrmacht exploited.

That is one helluva tie.

@gianniverschueren870

4 жыл бұрын

You're telling me

@Dave_Sisson

4 жыл бұрын

I suspect it may be his worst tie yet?

@robot-he6nq

4 жыл бұрын

@@Dave_Sisson on the contrary. I think it's his most glorious one yet.

@gianniverschueren870

4 жыл бұрын

@@robot-he6nq I can assure you both he's had worse

@TheWedabest

4 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing bro

"No nation has friends only interests." Yougoslavia's interests at that point were not to get invaded.

@desnencib5418

4 жыл бұрын

true I agree

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

Lukasz Rozmej. True but Serbs did not want to be ally with Nazi Germans and Fascist Italy.

@ComptGeorges

4 жыл бұрын

@@borkokostic8290 Well when you play stupid games you win stupid prizes

I feel bad for the guy. He would have been a better ruler in peacetime than Alexander.

@Blazo_Djurovic

4 жыл бұрын

Eh. While Alexander's solution was definitely authoritarian, I don't really see much else that could have been done given the divided and unstable political situation that made it so that no government lasted long enough to do anything.

@smuu1996

4 жыл бұрын

@@Blazo_Djurovic Something a bit more federalised. Yugoslavia was a very multicultural nation, all those various people want to feel represented, otherwise there would be rebels and seperatism.

@r-saint

4 жыл бұрын

And certainly better than any communists.

@smuu1996

4 жыл бұрын

@@r-saint Yes, Communists are shit.

@r-saint

4 жыл бұрын

@Neverlandia Wrong lol. The system crashed w/o him, it was just his fiefdom. He failed to create something good and significant. Also he killed Croatians all over the world. Overall, an asshole dictator.

This is why I follow this channel, I learned new things from ww2. Brave man Paul was, hard situation needs hard decisions, but most importantly he tried to safe his people from victims of war. Almost identical situation was in Finland that time.

What a fascinating episode. I can't really blame him for making that choice. When forced to choose between death or dishonour, he chose dishonour.

@MrNicoJac

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I was about to say.... Choosing "honor" would not have resulted in *his* death. He actually choose the path that best *served* his nation and people - something our current rulers find hilarious 🙄

Whole history of Serbia/Yugoslavia can be sumed up in: Do it - you will regret. Don't do it - you will regret again. But, that the story of every small nation I guess.

@LightFykki

4 жыл бұрын

Not necessary, as you can see today from many other small nations which through smart and strong politics of external affairs and economics secure their own positions. Also, Yugoslavia was not really small in terms of landmass or population, but it was "small" in terms of other things.

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

yuslaven, i have not nostalgia for Yugoslavia but you are right. Serbian history of ultimatums. From 1914 to today: give Kosovo or else...

@konjo031

4 жыл бұрын

Yugoslavia was not Serbia, but federation of multiple nations, countries and religions. Serbia was only one of these countries.

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

@@konjo031 Yes. But 60% of citizens of Yugoslavia were Serbs.

@konjo031

4 жыл бұрын

@@borkokostic8290 that doesn't make Yugoslavia anymore Serbian.

More effort in this video than in a single focus in hoi4’s yugoslavia focus tree

@hopfinatorischerkuchenkrieger

4 жыл бұрын

xd

@fernandoantunezantonio3450

4 жыл бұрын

xd

@redcoat4348

4 жыл бұрын

I don't get it...

He didn’t really have a choice since he was surrounded by their sphere of influence. Interesting biography, learned a lot more about him

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

Avery the Cuban-American welcome to Serbian history.

Germany: join us or die. Yuguslavia: I guess I will die then.

@lizzyregis

4 жыл бұрын

*happy Serbian accordion sounds*

@internationalarmy3984

4 жыл бұрын

??? ¿¿¿ Yugoslavia: I like those odds

@henrik1220

4 жыл бұрын

Croatia to Yugoslavia: "I dont know who is this guy"

@Blazo_Djurovic

4 жыл бұрын

WHAT, you want us to STAY OUT of this war?!? Don't speak nonsense. Come down here and hit me in the face.

@StandingTNT

4 жыл бұрын

Germany: join us or die. Yugoslavia: Sure, I'll joi... Um nevermind...

he tried to make the best of a bad situation, can't really say he did anything anyone else wouldn't have in that situation

@hamd8375

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim I mean, Yugoslavia did try to put a resistance after the coup but just as Paul feared, they were completely destroyed

@belisarius6949

4 жыл бұрын

He was right. Yugoslavia was about to be invaded if they didnt join Germany. He may have chosen the cowarda path but it was a path of least suffering for his own people.

@nikola_tomic

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim the army was weak because nobody wanted to fight for that Yugoslavia, that's the fact, and reality

@nikola_tomic

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim it wasn't, that's true, but also the reason for that is the fact that nobody wanted to militarize, none of the ministers was interested in that, because they thought, it might provoke the germans, and not the mention that at least a third of population was actually happy to Germany occupying Yugoslavia. Form the start, it was mission impossible

@nCaveman1

4 жыл бұрын

​@@Cpapajim How is the point that Paul wanted to avoid his own people's suffering invalid? The fact that the Yugoslav people suffered a lot after the pact was broken says nothing about the pact itself. After all, if the Yugoslav people simply accepted the pact they would not have had to suffer the German invasion. That was Paul's intention. Trying to find a way for your people to not have to suffer is not a cowardly decision. The only other option was to fight a war that the Yugoslav army couldn't win. Yes, the partisans fought, but Prince Paul wasn't in charge of the partisans. At the same time, it is 1941. Germany has destroyed France. Germany seemed almost unstoppable. If Germany defeated all the other major powers do you really think the partisans would be able to win in the end?

Prince Paul is a classic example of when ideals collide with reality. His decision was the right one if he is to consider the well-being of his people, which is obviously a monarch's first and foremost duty. Quite callous of Churchill to refuse him to see his dying friend and keep him under house arrest. If his nation wasn't separated from the Germans by the English Channel he might understand Paul's plight better, but that's history for you.

@MrNicoJac

4 жыл бұрын

I always thought of Churchill as the brave bulldog that never quit. Someone who, if I had a time machine, I'd gladly shake hands with. But then I learned he botched the Dardanelles in WW1, and how he intentionally let 3 *million* Indians starve, and now how he kept this good-intentioned man from seeing his dying friend. Now, if I had that time machine, I'd slap him in the face and kick him in the crotch....

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrNicoJac Churchill has amassed so much great PR over the years since because of this "no-nonsense" gruff personality that people find so endearing, easily omitting the fact the man had a propensity to be a complete and utter asshat, tended to get full of himself and, perhaps most notably, despite his numerous pompous speeches about honor, saw smaller continetal nations as little more than just cannon fodder. He was a calculating Briitsh wolf disguised as a romantic French sheep.

@TheLocalLt

4 жыл бұрын

John Fleming Churchill likely didn’t have a choice, as the King was hosting numerous foreign monarchs (whose countries had been invaded by Germany or Italy) in London, all of whom had chosen to fight off the invaders instead of signing a pact with Hitler. Then you have Paul who signed a pact with Hitler, those monarchs who had resisted felt Paul was a traitor to the other allied monarchs

@stefandusan9629

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheLocalLt hahaha it was suicide and they lost the throne because of it, it was the Serbs mistake for trusting any western help to come from the coup.

Germany: join us Yugoslavia: yes Yugoslavia: no Germany: yes

@jevinliu4658

4 жыл бұрын

No, Germany is like *Stabby stab stab stab stab stab*

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

"Join us". "No." "Yes?" "No." "Yes?" "No." "No?" "Yes... *dammit!"* *"Ah-HAH!"*

@mnemonija

4 жыл бұрын

You do know that Germans didn't really have a good time in the next 4 years in Yugoslavia and that Yugoslavia pretty much freed itself?

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

Yamcha Dragonball Germany 1940: Yugoslavia, your neutrality is not enough for us. Yugoslavia 1940: Nazis, let make arrangement - Nonagression Pact. Germany 1941: Nein. You in Belgrade must join us or else... Yugoslavia 1941: Yes. Croats and Slovenians yes. Serbs, Orthodox Church , agents of SOE and Freemasons NO but Regent Paul saidly said yes. Germany: yes Belgrade: Nein, Better Grave than Slave, For King and Country, Better War than Pact....

This should be on tv. Really. The Great War series too. The effort your team puts in is simply outstanding. Thanks for the hard work and dedication folks!!!

Kings Carol the Second and Michael of Romania were in a similar situation.

4 жыл бұрын

And same with Bulgaria

@darknerd5882

4 жыл бұрын

@ I don't think so , Bulgaria wanted to join axis , they weren't forced to do that

@iddomargalit-friedman3897

4 жыл бұрын

@@nexttsar yet not the Jews in the area it conquered. Still better than you could expect out of the situation, I guess.

@darknerd5882

4 жыл бұрын

@@nexttsarTo be honest I don't know about that . I said they were eager to join axis because they wanted to take land from Greece and Romania . I didn't say that they were necessary Nazis or fascists , although they were Bulgarian organizations who support Nazis like in other countries .

@darknerd5882

4 жыл бұрын

@@iddomargalit-friedman3897 Bulgarians did many war crimes and atrocities against the Greek population in Thrace though

That is one top shelf tie you have Indy.

It is my personal opinion that breaking the pact with the Axis powers caused more deaths, misery and destruction to Yugoslavia and her people than the alternative of staying in the pact......Idealistic gesture of defience may seem gallant on paper but in a realistic situation breaking the pact had no happy ending from the start.

@draganmarkovic491

4 жыл бұрын

Well it is a big dilemma, pragmatism vs morality

@draganmarkovic491

4 жыл бұрын

Or head vs hart

@sofixa11

4 жыл бұрын

That's easy to cross-check with Bulgaria, which faced the same dilemma, made the same choice, but there was no coup and breaking the pact. The only Bulgarian losses of the war were from internal Communist partisans, and then later on when they joined the war on the Soviet side when the Soviets came ( when the dilemma was the same).

@Languslangus

4 жыл бұрын

БОЉЕ РАТ НЕГО ПАКТ, БОЉЕ ГРОБ НЕГО РОБ!

@ognjenpetrovic5843

4 жыл бұрын

No way. Italy, Bulgaria and Hugary along with Ustaša Croats would still wanted their part of cake.

Peter the second who was mentioned in the video was buried in my hometown until 2013 when they moved his body to Serbia

I love you guys, greetings from Serbia.

After the appeasement policies and after the surrender of France and the UK being forced off the continent, being pro-allied or even taking a stand could no be seen as a realistic option for any European country. It is as simple as that. That is why always get a bit irritated when people blames countries like Sweden and Finland for what they did to survive.

@MrSam1er

4 жыл бұрын

You can put switzerland in the same basket. It's funny how american revisionism in the 90's just painted such a bad image on one country because of a banking feud.

Generally uneducated on Eastern European history but this profile of Prince Paul was really interesting and fascinating. But most of all, it's sad to see him being treated so badly for trying to save his country from doom.

I love getting these insights into history. In most documentaries, Yugoslavia just shows as red on the map, and you never know how it happened. Some countries went willingly, others didn't. It's good to know.

Ive watched almost every one of your WW1 series, and the WW2 series, and i love the fact that you tell the facts as they are and not taking sides. Hope you continue your work after WW2 is done!

Given the terrible conditions of the occupation, and the atrocities committed by the Croats, Chetniks, Communists, and Axis forces, I find it hard to condemn a man who only wanted to avoid such an occurrence.

@BigBoss-sm9xj

4 жыл бұрын

Very true and very sad

@TheBreadB

4 жыл бұрын

I mean, yes, but monarchy is bad by default.

@cv4809

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheBreadB look at the mediocre state of modern republican Serbia and its neighbours, how can you say that about monarchy

@bluemoondiadochi

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheBreadB dude, that's a load of crap. if it was so, how come austria-hungary was such a well ordered state? what about King Haaakon VII? I bet you never even heard of him. or Dom Pedro II? yea, figures. if one is raised from birth to be responsible, and to SERVE the country, it's better than a person climbing his way up the ladder by blabbing and making deals. i take a proper royal dynasty over republic any day.

@milostomic8539

4 жыл бұрын

I think there was not a place in all occupied Europe with such a reprisals - 100 Serb civilians to be killed for every German soldier killed and 150 civilians to be killed for every German officer killed.Not even in Poland or occupied parts of Soviet Union.Only in Yugoslavia and especially in Serbia.Germans remembered the WW1. And to mention that during the April air raids only cities in Serbia were bombed but not the ones in Croatia, Bosnia and Slovenia.

I love how this channel really tries to get the pronunciation correct and doesn't shy away from it

A brilliant episode! A masterful prelude to the this week's regular episode - the April catastrophe, as we call it in the lands of former Yugoslavia... again, thank you so much TimeGhost for this so pleasant surprise!!!

@draganmarkovic491

4 жыл бұрын

Where in ex Yugoslavia is it called that? In my schools we called it the April war

As a Finn, I feel sympathy for the guy. He really had no options, at least any good ones

@mikked01

4 жыл бұрын

Indeed, technically we very close to ALWAYS have a choice of options. It's just sometimes our choices are bad, really bad and awful.

Indy’s tie today is the best one he’s had

@SirSaladhead

4 жыл бұрын

holy crap where do you even get something like that

Thank you, I am big History fun, I always read that Paul was Pro-Nazi and the king overthrow him as he was anti-nazi, then the hero-king had to fee the German invasion, I am glad to know the real story-know we will never know if Paul had not been overthrown, what would have happened after the signing of the treaty

@BokicaK1

4 жыл бұрын

Where did you read that Yugoslavia had a hero-king in WW2?

@jevinliu4658

4 жыл бұрын

@@BokicaK1 He must be a hero because he prevented the country from joining the Axis I'm kidding, by the way.

@andmos1001

4 жыл бұрын

Peter Croves history is written by the victors. Especially in a coup d’etate. They have to paint the previous head of state in so bad light as possible in the eyes of history.

@mnemonija

4 жыл бұрын

Nazis would have asked for the Jews by Tuesday, and that would have triggered the rebellion and ended up in the same place.

I've asked this before and i'll probably ask this again: Could you do a bio-special about soviet General vlasov and nazi-collaborators later in the war? Keep on your great work, i'll wait for an answer;)

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

We'll get there. Do keep asking though.

@Mytholuspng

4 жыл бұрын

@@WorldWarTwo good to know :)

Not that it has much to do with this video, but Princess Olga of Greece and Denmark was sister of Lord Luis Mountbatten (Remember Dieppe?) and aunt of Prince Philip, the Duke of Edimburgh.

@ericcarlson3746

3 ай бұрын

Princess Olga was a daughter of Prince Nicholas of Greece and Denmark and Grand Duchess Elena Vladimirovna of Russia. Olga's sister was the Duchess of Kent. no relation to the Mountbattens. Philip was her cousin

I very much enjoyed this video and fully concur with the POV of its author, but it does need a small correction. Prince George, the Duke of Kent, was not ill and close to dying when the Prince Regent was forced to flee Yugoslavia in March of 1941. He (the Duke of Kent) died in a plane crash while on active duty in August of 1942. (That doesn't detract from the fact that Prince Paul was treated poorly by Winston Churchill's government, however.)

@sebastien73

Жыл бұрын

Correct. As the diarist Chips Channon writes on the news of the Duke of Kent's death: "I am really most anxious and upset for my poor [Prince] Paul languishing in Kenya; for he loses not only one of his greatest friends, his brother and law [Princesses Olga & Marina were sisters], and a link in England; but he will be quick to realise that now his chances of ever returning to this country are slimmer than ever! Hope is taken away from him; and people will be nastier than ever: for there were some cads and snobs who dared not be invective for fear of offending the Duke. I fear that he may not survive this fresh blow...." (v.2, p.842)

Man, Britain hating him for signing treaties with Germany shows a amazing lack of self-awareness and endless hypocrisy.

@hopeindarktimes9535

3 жыл бұрын

Uk hipocrasy, why no one mention it more?!

@limita9961

2 жыл бұрын

“British hypocrisy” Ah yes, the wet water

This video is amazing. You are very popular among my friends and me, history students in Serbia.

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

Cool! Send them our regards.

Yugoslavia's story at the time is worthy of a movie ,centered around Prince Paul himself

The real traitors are the officers behind the coup, as well as SOE that was urging them to go ahead. The only ones truly betrayed by Yugoslavia joining the Pact were the Greeks, who didn't do anything to deserve this backstab from their old ally. Yugoslavia could've later switched back to the Allies' side, as so many others did, and go through the whole mess largely unscathed, but instead we got atrocities against the people (some people more than others *coughJasenovaccough*), disastrous resistance movements and infighting, and to top it all off - a communist regime. The regent was not a traitor, he was a true pragmatic politician and would've been a hero for saving his people and country.

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

We'll get to the British involvement tomorrow!

@TheBreadB

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, the communist regime was bad because... reasons. Nice try.

@jaksabarac5944

4 жыл бұрын

Mislim da mi hrvati ipak vas ne možemo dosteći u ubijanju a ni u laganju.

@draganmarkovic491

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheBreadB Because they hunted and killed all who opposed them till mid 1950's, they done horrible atrocities to Serbian Orthodox church especially in Montenegro, they implemented horrible agrarian reform, they banned freedom of press and free speech, they sent politically unfit to labor camps. Of course they were much better than their Soviet comrades but one could certainly resent them for many reasons...

Nice tie Indy

@gianniverschueren870

4 жыл бұрын

You know it

Even had the allies promised assistance. Would anybody really have taken that seriously after what happened at Poland, Finland and Norway?

Indy my man that tie absolutely rocks. I inherited my dads fabulous forties ties and wore them quite a bit. I'm sure most people don't know the forties had a lot of color in the fashion scene.

Milan Stojadinovic has a very interesting life during and post WW2 where just before prince Paul had him exiled to the brits who put him in the colony of Mauritius then post WW2 he left to Brazil then Argentina where he served as an economic advisor to Juan Peron in Buenos Aires. Interesting man

@TheWedabest

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info! Never knew that, very interesting indeed!

@Languslangus

4 жыл бұрын

Pf course, where else than Aegentina.

@ognjenpetrovic5843

4 жыл бұрын

Also q fashist pig.

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

"economic advisor to Juan Peron" Sure sounds like a competent guy.

Sounds a bit like Finland’s dilemma.

Sorry Indy, but that Tie might be a Candidate for the next War against Humanity Episode

@archstanton6102

4 жыл бұрын

Ugliest tie yet

Indy Neidell , bravo for a clip about Yugoslav Prince Pavle Karadjordjevic. You are right. Paul was a Serb but in the heart he was British.

Très bonne analyse, merci pour toutes ces vidéos passionnantes!

Nice video great job guys! We can we see a special about Miklós Horthy? Oh and are you planning to do a special about the events (I don't want spoiler it) that took place after Yugoslavia was attacked?

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers! I'll add your suggestions to a long list we have going!

You have my sincere compliments, this is a well thought out topic. There were several figures from that period in Yugoslavia with the similar dilemma. One of which, a person who had more luck than prince Paul, was the ambassador in Berlin and Rome later Nobel prize laureate Ivo Andrić. Yugoslavia had difficult internal problems in between World wars, we had dozens of Governments that could not last for even a year. Corruption was high (which Communists later politically exploited after the WWII), leading Serbian establishment had difficulties coping with a new multi-national country... Even if all went well for prince Paul, the difficult question is whether Yugoslavia could sustain its territorial integrity after that event (regarding its internal problems). Best regards!

Thanks brother, well done

Thanks for making this episode on prince Paul,you did a marvelous job!

Thanks guys for this excellent episode. You are doing a great job showing us very interesting historic insights about countries that are often overlooked.

A sidenote for what you said on 0:40 - at the time of Paul's birth, the Karađorđević dynasty didn't rule Serbia. The Obrenović dynasty did and was succeeded by the rival Karađorđević dynasty in 1903.

@yarpen26

4 жыл бұрын

Well, "succeeded" is one way of putting "replaced after being slaughtered into extinction".

@milostomic8539

4 жыл бұрын

@@yarpen26 Yes, but it was a slaughter well deserved.

I really don't hold anything against Paul. He really was hard pressed. And the allied powers, as said, really couldn't help.

It seems to me he just wanted to keep his country and people safe.

Thank you very much for this content. I look forward to your videos every day and being of serbian heritage I also find Yugoslavian history extremely interesting. Look forward to many more videos from your channel.

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome! There will be another one tomorrow!

A man in a most unfortunate situation. In retrospect, I hope his countrymen (and women) honour him. I think the British understood but they had to maintain a hard line because all the royalty of Europe were guests. Kenya, best place to be in the blitz. LOL

@caydenl.4878

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim and look at how many slavs were killed in ww2, because of the coup

@CptSlow89

4 жыл бұрын

In 2011 his remains are tranfered in Serbia and he was burried next to his wife and son.

@radelapadat7421

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim Defence against Germans and their blitzkrieg tactics at the time was pretty much impossible. Especially for the country like Yugoslavia, poor, undeveloped and around 3000km long line of borders. The only thing that saved UK in Europe was the sea and no direct way to the mainland. Countless brave pilots as well, AA artillery crew, civilian population, but you get my point. I am not getting into the issue itself. I am quite undecided about his role, even though I am from Serbia, but I am more keen to think that it was one of those wrong place, wrong time situations.

@MrNicoJac

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim No, I absolutely do *NOT* get your point. The Wehrmacht would've wiped the floor with the Yugoslavian army. They would've invaded from Albania and from Bulgaria and from the Italian, ex-Austrian, and Hungarian border. The Luftwaffe would've bombed any defensive positions or local HQs, making any defense planning utterly futile. And no help would be coming either. Do you think the Italians would let the Brits and French sail into the Adriatic? Do you think the cowardly Allies would've even tried at this point?? Do you think the Greeks would send over their own much-needed weapons? At least Greece had a smaller front line in the mountains - at least you had some defensive terrain working in your favor. And Athens was more accessible for shipments from Cairo. Long story short, if he had resisted the Nazis, it just would've meant mass slaughter for his people. Folding peacefully at least would've kept the murderous SS out. And if it wasn't for the coup, it might have even worked! Sadly, the coup unleashed the Nazis' wrath despite Prince Paul's best efforts. So no, I absolutely do not get your point. There's nothing noble about telling your people to make a heroic stand for your reputation. A good leader doesn't needlessly butcher his own people just to make a statement. They would've lost. So sparing your nation extra deaths was the least bad choice.

@hebl47

4 жыл бұрын

@@Cpapajim You must be fairly new to WW2 (and?) Great War channels. Because if you'd have spent years watching these videos you'd value human life a bit more. "Surender without a fight" is such a simple four word phrase. But it also saves tens of thousands of lives (or in many cases even millions), especially when it's a completely lost cause.

You rock Mr. Neidell.

Oboy imagine in 2039 all videos from this channel getting recommended to everyone.

Really enjoyed this one. Let’s you see the whole picture and out things into perspective.

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

U Kraljevini Jugoslaviji ( i kasnije u SFRJ ) se pričala mračna šala: Jugoslavija je okružena - BRIGAMA! Dakle inicijali slijedećih zemalja su bile "Brige" - Bugarska, Rumunjska, Italija, Grčka, Austrija, Mađarska, Albanija. There was a dark joke back then in Kingdom of Yugoslavia ( and later in SFRY ): Yugoslavia is surrounded with "WORRIES" ( Singular - Worrie - Briga, Brige; plural Instrumental case Worries - Brigama - in Croatian-Serbian-Bosnian-Montenegrin language ) So "brige" or "brigama" are initials of countries of Bulgaria, Romania, Italy, Greece, Hungary and Albania.

When you deny to join the axis. *Why do I hear boss music?*

Paul really had no choice. He had to do what he had to do to try to keep his people safe.

No, Jugoslavia, you can't have _that_ Fuhrer; we have the Cvetkovic model at home.

I have to sympathize with all the countries of central and eastern Europe. They knew what Hitler was all about and recognized that Britain and France weren't going to help them. However, I believe that if they had put their petty differences aside for just a little while and had stood together, things may have turned out quite differently. Also, I know history has judged Winston Churchill pretty kindly, but having a body of water and a very strong navy between you and Germany makes defending yourself a lot easier than when you are surrounded. Paul did what he thought was right to spare his country and his people from utter destruction. He's not a traitor or coward, just pragmatic.

@milostomic8539

4 жыл бұрын

That was just the beginning.This channel is great and I hope they will continue with Yugoslavia episodes because the next 4 years, May 1941-May 1945 were beyond brutal and bloody in the Balkans.It was also a place were two large resistance movements were born, a royalist Chetniks in May 1941 and a Communist Partisans in July 1941.

You just stated some key facts i posted earlier in one comment you have deleted :) Role of prince Paul is a key in understanding the future of Balkans which have never recovered from blodsheed in ww2 and totalitarian regimes that came after. Great video!

Every educated person in todays Serbia understands and respects Pauls decision. The country was in a terrible shape, especially since it was ravaged by Germans and Austrians in the war 25 years ago. A third of its male population was lost in combat, killed or died during the retreat to Greece. But merely a week after Yugoslavia joins the Axis, a military coup supported by the British takes over the government. (the Brits deny involvment, but local historians today agree that they were indeed involved). The common people supported this coup. There was not a single family who did not lose a member in the previous war, the conditions of life were terrible, there were nationalistic tensions, and there was a great sympathy towards Greece. There is also a saying that "Balkans is a gunpowder barrel", and my people are no exception. Protesters were chanting "better grave than a slave", "better death than a pact" and indeed, Germans, togheter with Croats brought the most inhuman terror over the people living in Yugsolavia during the 1941-1944 ocupation. If Paul had remained in power, much of my people would have been spared death and suffering. But, honor was (and is) more valued than wisdom. As long as it is so things won't change much around here.

Solid video on a rarely pragmatic ruler in South-Eastern Europe. The concept of inter-ethnic harmony in Yugoslavia could've become somewhat of a reality if the coup had been crushed. Hitler was content with the idea of Yugoslavia being like Spain- a technical ally. But no, idiots decided to do a coup right next to Germany.

The UK calling him a traitor after what they did (or didn't do, rather)... pretty thick there.

Great episode! Thanks, guys!

Too bad that Poland didn't have a leader back in 1938/39 who could make controversial yet brave decision just like Prince Paul. Instead we had a bunch of naive romantics just like those who staged the coup in Yugoslavia.

Very interesting episode. I remember having learned in school about Serbian monarchy as traitors, but clearly it's more nuanced. I think that Paul made a mistake joining the axis. He betrayed the principle in order to avoid war and still got war. Had he chosen the principle over realpolitik, no one would have been able to call him traitor later. Obviously he could not have known that, it was tough call. BTW the coup against him was likely organized by the British.

3:12 that farm looks cleaner than a hospital. Fascinating picture.

"A war his country surely could not win." Maybe not, but this series said the post-coup leadership didn't mobilize after the coup and decided to stretch the army thin by defending the entire border. If Paul made smarter decisions, like actually getting his army ready and withdrawing to more defensible positions and working jointly with the Greeks, he might have been able to inflict more damage and delay the German advance. Think of what that might do to Barbarossa if those units had been stuck in Yugoslavia longer, took heavier losses, and used up more supplies.

@Intreductor

4 жыл бұрын

Any action that would resemble Paul preparing to aid the Allies towards Greece would've jumpstarted the German invasion right away. He didn't want to give the Germans any excuse to doubt his stance on neutrality.

The tragedy of the Melian dialogue "the weak suffer what they must"

Paul didn't have much of a choice, but he did have the option to follow Poland's example

Please put the sources for the bio episodes in the description.

@WorldWarTwo

4 жыл бұрын

Are you looking for some more info on Prince Paul? Unfortunately we couldn't find much accessible biographies on him so had to piece together his life from more general books on Yugoslav history. We used a lot to do this so we could cross-reference but some good ones to start with are; European Neutrals and Non-Belligerents During the Second World War - Neville Wylie New Perspectives on Yugoslavia: Key Issues and Controversies - Dejan Djokić. Yugoslavia as History: Twice There Was a Country - John Lampe

the drama of Yugoslavia, torn between Scylla and Charibdis... :(

Every person on Earth is a victim of circumstance (or a winner)

@victorbruant389

4 жыл бұрын

@@Infernal460 I think nobody is

Yugoslavia tried to resist joining the Axis and also not get invaded. In the end, Yugoslavia both joined the axis AND got invaded. sad

i don't think i can name a topic more sensitive than yugoslavia

6:54 is that a spider just dangling in front of the camera?

Let's not forget his granddaughter played Amanda Carrington in Dynasty.

@GoranArsic76

4 жыл бұрын

What? Seriously?

@vegaspaul8529

4 жыл бұрын

@@GoranArsic76 catherine oxenberg

@GoranArsic76

4 жыл бұрын

@@vegaspaul8529 Wow, didn't knew that. Funny thing, tv show was so popular in Yugoslavia in the '80 during socialism, i remember watching it with everyone as a kid. Even more, although not related, Romanian dictator Causescu allowed airing of Dallas inspired by popularity of Dinasty in western Romania, which was catching Belgrade TV signal. He want it to show ugly face of capitalism to his people, which backfired spectacularly.

The Karageorgeovic dynasty wasnt ruling Serbia at time of birth, but a rival dynasty. That King and Queen were savagely murdered in 1903 and the Karageorgovics came back to power

That's one fancy tie you got there Indy~

Without knowing anything about Paul other than what is spoken here, I'd have to agree that it was the only logical choice. I'd also guess that he was internally delighted with the actual coup, as that is exactly how he really felt.

I read the title as 'victim of circumcision' lol

@autistiumhydroxide3614

4 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha, he got involuntarily circumcised.

Yugoslavia didn’t stand a chance, I can’t blame him for signing the pact

@Helloverlord

4 жыл бұрын

In case you didnt notice, Yugoslavia end up WWII among winners but not thankfully to Paul. Pavle (Paul) was a wimp and he ended up like one.

@MA-cx9os

4 жыл бұрын

@@Helloverlord And then fast foward 60 years winners bomb yugoslavia and break it to small pices.

@borkokostic8290

4 жыл бұрын

@@Helloverlord , knez Pavle wimp ? Maybe Regent Paul think let`s avoid Second World War. First World War Serbia won but for what prize.

@Helloverlord

4 жыл бұрын

@@borkokostic8290 He was a wimp, from my perspective, althou crown supporters, all 0,3% within the state, is trying to picture whole ordeal otherwise. First of all, he acted like democrat in a time of great despair, moving all over the place in all directions, trying to please everyone, he failed in controlling own government and leading the nation in rough times by setting the course and example. If Paul didnt run away but stayed to organize all troops available (instead they fought each other) maybe, death toll wouldn't be so high. He achieved nothing as the outcome, he had failed on all. Regarding WWI, what kind of victory is that where you sacrifice all men for it? Further more, reseaching through Karadjordjevic family and knowing what "princess" Jelisaveta really is for (as I was involved in her "activities" during 90-es through her "charity funds") all you can find is bunch of idiots and sluts, so call "royals" without a kingdom, most of them have issues using serbian language, all they are after is realestates and funds to continue living parasitic lifestyle. Nation rejected that no-good pig breeder family more then once ('41.,'46.,'04. , and there's a reason for it.

@Helloverlord

4 жыл бұрын

@@MA-cx9os Smart says: "play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

You could 100% blame him for the deal IF the League of Nations hadn't agreed to let Germany conquer a part of Czechoslovakia. After that, his options were either that or become a Partisan.

Amazing episode:)

"Errr... Guys... Germany is looking mighty fighty... And they're making friends with the Soviets who are always fighty... Can I get some help or some kind of assistance?! If I can't I'll have to try and save my people from devastation by appeasing them..." Island nation infamous for appeasing Germany: "Coward."

I like the planes shadow as the back drop.

Two of the last three British Prime Ministers were members of the Bullingdon Club

Austria's Von Schuschnigg was in a similar spot and he resigned rather than support Hitler.

Prince Paul to George VI: I'm sorry, old friend. I didn't want too...

Nice job getting WIll Arnett to pose for the thumbnail.

Prince George Edward Alexander Edmund, Duke of Kent died in a plane crash in 1941, Prince Paul was refused permission to see the Duke after he died not before. Also, Prince George was not ailing before his death as he was on active service, any ailing would have been done by his brother Albert Frederick Arthur George or King George VI as was better known.

He did as best as he could,although he failed ,his duty was to his country and i think he served his country well,to fight to only get destroyed is nothing but stubbornness,he knew his countries strength and weakneas and he did what best he could do for his country