Post Office: Barrister warns scandal extends 'greatly' beyond Horizon

A barrister representing sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses has told Sky News there is evidence of faults with some "third-party" services in Post Office branches.
Paul Marshall said problems with the systems, such as ATMs and lottery tickets, had been “overlooked”.
He said that “the scandal extends considerably beyond, greatly beyond, it might be said, the limited focus of bugs in Horizon”.
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Пікірлер: 292

  • @JugglinJellyTake01
    @JugglinJellyTake0123 күн бұрын

    Post office execs have apologised without coming clean on other failings. That's not apologising, that is damage limitation. No lessons have been learned.

  • @ncooper8438

    @ncooper8438

    22 күн бұрын

    The PO masters and lawyers are obliged to address Horizon issues but they are keeping quiet about other issues (that they know about).

  • @ChangesOneTim

    @ChangesOneTim

    19 күн бұрын

    Yep, seems these people utter their little 'sorry' as if to give more credence to the responses they are about to make, only then to prove beyond doubt that they are not genuinely sorry!

  • @geodun

    @geodun

    19 күн бұрын

    There is only one place those lessons can be learned, prison.

  • @sharonwyatt298

    @sharonwyatt298

    17 күн бұрын

    Not wholeheartedly 😕 though.

  • @mypointofview1111

    @mypointofview1111

    14 күн бұрын

    Lessons are never learned. Institutions mouth these words but they go back to doing what they usually do and mess up again and again

  • @BenRobinson1974
    @BenRobinson197422 күн бұрын

    Vennells should be jailed for a long time.

  • @ChangesOneTim

    @ChangesOneTim

    22 күн бұрын

    From what Susan Crichton says in evidence this week about her, I reckon that criminal charges for Vennells and others are now looking very likely.

  • @chrisrevill8717

    @chrisrevill8717

    22 күн бұрын

    I agree, she should be brought to justice, if not it gives the green light to other powerful organisations to treat their staff the same.

  • @ChoppingtonOtter

    @ChoppingtonOtter

    22 күн бұрын

    She won't be. The rich never are.

  • @fatbelly27

    @fatbelly27

    22 күн бұрын

    I think she might be, as others around her are throwing her under the bus. She is what is known as the Single Point of Blame

  • @darkdonzaloog

    @darkdonzaloog

    20 күн бұрын

    should be for life but that won't happen

  • @Quiet_Forge
    @Quiet_Forge22 күн бұрын

    The Post Office appears to most people to be resisting and obstructing the enquiry.

  • @johnj4860

    @johnj4860

    17 күн бұрын

    Seem?

  • @daveburnham9111
    @daveburnham911122 күн бұрын

    And to think Paula Vennells was preaching to her parish whilst this was going on.

  • @ChoppingtonOtter

    @ChoppingtonOtter

    22 күн бұрын

    Must have been hard for her not to snigger while talking about Christian values. I guess the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pounds salary helped.

  • @anonnemo2504

    @anonnemo2504

    19 күн бұрын

    The hierarchies of all religions are riddled with liars and hypocrites. Re the video, I wonder if Fujitsu, formerly ICL in the UK, had any hand in the ATM issues. My professional experience of ICL software, in other sectors of the UK economy, was that it was rarely commercially released without containing "undocumented features", many of them quite serious. Re the inquiry, having watched many witnesses over several hours, I would be very surprised if some of them did not turn out to be as guilty as a puppy sat next to a pile of poo and I cannot understand why police investigations are not already under way.

  • @vanessalochrie3680

    @vanessalochrie3680

    19 күн бұрын

    'Paula Vennells was preaching to her parish whilst this was going on...' and thanking god for her massive bonuses.

  • @user-vs5kg2ue3w

    @user-vs5kg2ue3w

    19 күн бұрын

    Her preyers had been answered

  • @andydudley1775

    @andydudley1775

    19 күн бұрын

    @@anonnemo2504 for police to go for the criminals would mean they noticed they jailed and convicted 900 people and not notice .the courts never wrong try telling a judge that.

  • @miraforeman7567
    @miraforeman756720 күн бұрын

    WHERE IS THE MONEY? No one is posing this question. WHY?

  • @ChangesOneTim

    @ChangesOneTim

    19 күн бұрын

    The inquiry has touched on this, but I reckon its down to police/ Serious Fraud Office investigations to get under way in the light of civil and criminal appeal judgments.😊

  • @suziejames7510

    @suziejames7510

    19 күн бұрын

    It's my understanding that the money was placed in a suspense account and then after a time it was transferred to the Post Office profit and loss account. Thereafter the money was paid to Paula Vennels and her cronies as a nice fat bonus.

  • @miraforeman7567

    @miraforeman7567

    19 күн бұрын

    @@suziejames7510 shouldn’t have they question where is excess money coming from? While many sub PO masters were accused of stealing it? They KNEW. It is unprecedented crime.

  • @johnspark8095
    @johnspark809519 күн бұрын

    My heart goes out to this poor man and all those who have been affected by the treachery of the establishment. It shows their utter contempt towards the working people of this country. As usual the establishment are dragging their feet in admitting any wrong doing and making amends to all those who have been so grossly mistreated. God bless all those people who have been affected.

  • @markcarlon8558

    @markcarlon8558

    16 күн бұрын

    The people that are responsible for sending the innocent subpostmasters to prison are the lowest of the low, and are clearly all lying to cover for themselves and their colleagues. They have to pay for what they have done.

  • @mypointofview1111

    @mypointofview1111

    14 күн бұрын

    This scandal extends far beyond Horizon, it goes as far as the Tory & Labour governments. The liars and crooks that they are

  • @janeday9148

    @janeday9148

    12 күн бұрын

    There is something rotten in the Establishment from weak Politicians to the Legal System the Honours System & Judiciary, arrogance incompetence greed, was there also Racism ?

  • @mazdamaniac4643
    @mazdamaniac464323 күн бұрын

    If the subpostmasters were topping up the discrepencies in Horizon with their own money, then where has all of that money gone? There must have been at least one accountant at the Post Office that noticed that they were gaining excessive levels of profit than expected for no reason. Did all of that money go into paying shareholder dividends?..because that sounds like a job for the Serious Fraud Office and the Crown Prosecution Service.

  • @simonmorgan225

    @simonmorgan225

    23 күн бұрын

    The CPS didn't hand over documents that proved the system had major faults. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

  • @nikwalker7495

    @nikwalker7495

    23 күн бұрын

    Recent inquiry interview of a POL ex boss apparently admitted that the 'recoveries' probably ended up in bonus packages for the top execs for performance related aspects of their contract but there is no separate account where the 'recoveries' ended up. One reason the influx of cash extorted from many SPM's in litigation over several years never raised a quizzical eyebrow in the finance directors office...they simply did not see it to realize there was a peculiar spike in profits seemingly unrelated to trading.

  • @joisagirlsname

    @joisagirlsname

    22 күн бұрын

    ​@@nikwalker7495if it was put into a suspense account initially, those accountants KNEW that money was dodgy.

  • @NannyRose2289

    @NannyRose2289

    22 күн бұрын

    It went into a separate account and then they decided to give it out as bonuses and dividends. The people that received that money are guilty of taking money by deception and receiving money that has been gained by fraud. The PO knew that there were problems, quite frankly they are the ones guilty of theft, they have stolen the money from people who did not owe them anything and then they gave it to themselves as bonuses - theft!

  • @rbcrbc7913

    @rbcrbc7913

    21 күн бұрын

    Exactly. As Ian Hislop says, "What happened to all the money they stole?"

  • @DigitalPerspectivesUK
    @DigitalPerspectivesUK22 күн бұрын

    Fujitsu should foot the bill and compensation absolutely scandalous and Post Office officials should be jailed!

  • @anonnemo2504

    @anonnemo2504

    19 күн бұрын

    I wonder if Fujitsu, formerly ICL in the UK, had any hand in the ATM issues. My professional experience of ICL software, in other sectors of the UK economy, was that it was rarely commercially released without containing "undocumented features", many of them quite serious. Re the inquiry, having watched many witnesses over several hours, I would be very surprised if some of them did not turn out to be as guilty as a puppy sat next to a pile of poo and I cannot understand why police investigations are not already under way.

  • @user-wq9bg7uu5x

    @user-wq9bg7uu5x

    16 күн бұрын

    Bankrupted, then jailed!! MM

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    ALL OF THEM - JAIL !

  • @suechris9610
    @suechris961018 күн бұрын

    Every one of these post office executives and managers and Fujitsu involved should be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter, theft, perjury and jailed for the lives they have torn apart. All of the people who have given evidence so far in the enquiry have said the same thing " I don't recall, I didn't know, it was not me ". LIES, LIES LIES.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    AND EVEN MORE LIES !!!!!

  • @iancockroft2874

    @iancockroft2874

    8 күн бұрын

    The law has to b in place to do that

  • @alexanderkutschera149
    @alexanderkutschera14917 күн бұрын

    I’m pretty sure the only thing the post office is sorry for is that they have been caught lying.

  • @chrishaps6846
    @chrishaps684620 күн бұрын

    Dear Mr Chirag , so sorry about this , heartbreaking

  • @nannieg7622

    @nannieg7622

    18 күн бұрын

    I agree

  • @gherkamum
    @gherkamum22 күн бұрын

    They know it was all wrong but did nothing, still no empathy or shame…..They all look guilty

  • @childofthe50s53

    @childofthe50s53

    19 күн бұрын

    And they look cold, totally lacking in empathy.

  • @eljay5746
    @eljay574623 күн бұрын

    The money paid back by the SPMs was put into a suspense account & later on transferred to the profit account of the PO. As a result of that increased profit Executives of the PO took large bonuses illegally. Ernst & Young were the financial auditors of the PO accounts & should have queried this but failed to do so.

  • @pashby3

    @pashby3

    22 күн бұрын

    They can't remember they were not told, PO reduced to Dog Pile.

  • @TheSapphire51

    @TheSapphire51

    17 күн бұрын

    Yes all the accounting firms are equally culpabale

  • @neillock1807
    @neillock180720 күн бұрын

    Hell, that (0:56) is my local post office. We had to sign a petition to get it back. I knew he was unjustly accused, but didn't realize before now that what he was accused of wasn't part of the Horizon scandal. The problem began in about 2016, when they changed their ATM from Santander to Post Office Bank. I used it many times. A lot more heads must roll beyond Vennells. I wonder why there are so few views on this thread?

  • @cndns2
    @cndns221 күн бұрын

    Heinous crime on the part of the Post Office. Their upper echelon, including Fujitsu, should be sentenced to jail. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  • @user-om7is7ov9v
    @user-om7is7ov9v21 күн бұрын

    I am angry and appalled on so many levels. My first thoughts have been with all the subpostmasters who have endured years of living hell. Even writing this I feel like crying for them at the injustice. My experience of the people working in post offices has always been that they were unbelievably hard working and a huge asset to the community they served. Most will have been the hub of their community. I have been incredibly saddened over the last 20 years to see the demise of the sub postoffices and have never been certain as to what was going on. Now I know. Every CEO , Director, Manager, Solicitor in the POL & Fujitsu is guilty of a gross cover-up. All their bonuses should be recovered and put into an account for the subpostmasters, if that means they will be declared bankrupt & lose their homes, TOUGH!!!!! Plus Paula Vennels should be prosecuted along with all the others who lied.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Hopefully ending in VERY LONG jail sentences .

  • @marypink9953
    @marypink995320 күн бұрын

    Decades ago I worked in a Bank. In In branch ATM discrepancies happened. The cash in the machine was counted, and the statement from the machine would show a different amount. Now imagine a wireless link to a Bank dropping out....

  • @helenrosshaggarty8787
    @helenrosshaggarty878719 күн бұрын

    This is disgusting in every way.

  • @leroysimon5692

    @leroysimon5692

    12 күн бұрын

    👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾

  • @owenfarmer8018
    @owenfarmer801820 күн бұрын

    Omg, disgraceful the PO responsibles need to be brought to justice and compensation given to their victims. The PO abused their position as judge and jury to protect their salaries and reputation - “the institutions of power can never be seen to be wrong“ - and they didn’t care who they crushed.

  • @christopherjohnson8896
    @christopherjohnson889621 күн бұрын

    This needs to be a police investigation immediately.

  • @leroysimon5692

    @leroysimon5692

    12 күн бұрын

    👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾

  • @robb1781
    @robb178122 күн бұрын

    I can't believe that the ATM transactions did not have sufficient logging to determine what was actually happening. I worked on an inter-bank instant payment clearing solution, and that had logs from the sending bank, temporary logs of the transaction while it was in progress, and logs for the receiving bank when the transaction was complete. Any problem with the transaction or communication would leave a record of what happened. Any ATM system surely must have similar logs.

  • @julierogers1155

    @julierogers1155

    22 күн бұрын

    Right?!

  • @billatkin3956

    @billatkin3956

    11 күн бұрын

    Yes!!! That's what puzzles me too.

  • @pithywriter
    @pithywriter22 күн бұрын

    Who on earth are running sub post offices now, after all these terrible accusations? What is different today that anyone would take up this position?

  • @Uygkuyfkutfkytfkutfv
    @Uygkuyfkutfkytfkutfv23 күн бұрын

    Surely POL was ‘false accounting’ when they hid all that spare cash - the fact they were telling SPMs to keep any unexplained credit means they likely were doing it at their end too.

  • @julierogers1155

    @julierogers1155

    22 күн бұрын

    Good point.

  • @TheSynthnut
    @TheSynthnut20 күн бұрын

    The companies involved in these issues were also responsible for other government systems. HMRC, DVLA, DWP, who knows how many errors have been made...

  • @brashers759
    @brashers75922 күн бұрын

    They all need to be jailed and their pensions given to those wrongly accused

  • @bingbong6467
    @bingbong646722 күн бұрын

    Money i didn't even have, money i had to borrow. No words, so sorry for the innocent victims of this, let's hope government moves decisively and quickly not that money can recompense for what has been done

  • @andydudley1775

    @andydudley1775

    19 күн бұрын

    P.O. bled them dry before going for prosicutions and they was refused legal aid.while a sunak funded the criminals with 100 million of tax paid money.the same sunak who has companies partnerd to fijitsu by the way.no conflict of interest what so ever .

  • @darrell190967
    @darrell19096720 күн бұрын

    there has very much been a culture of "absolute assumption of guilty until one can conclusively prove themselves innocent" (basically the reverse of the UK Justice system) in the post office and royal mail for decades, I know this from bitter personal experience; when the Inquiry is over and conclusions / reports published, I seriously hope heads roll within post office management, their lawyers, prosecutors etc (not all of course), all those guilty must be brought to justice (after being fired first), arrested, criminally charged & hopefully convicted, some even jailed, and all those found guilty in court be forced to contribute to the compensation fund on top of any fines, costs awarded, etc; also it must be made into law that Criminal investigations be made exclusive to the Police, Government departments (HMRC, DWP, Local Councils, etc) and criminal prosecutions at the sole privy of the CPS

  • @naftab123
    @naftab12322 күн бұрын

    The people that knew should see prison just like their victims.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    With very long sentences. Never going to happen as they know all the right people .

  • @philipsmith1990
    @philipsmith199016 күн бұрын

    It is quite clear that those in the post office responsible for prosecutions whether involving horizon or not were routinely lying to secure a conviction. That being the case, any conviction obtained in which they were involved should immediately be declared unsafe.

  • @tanjee2698
    @tanjee269822 күн бұрын

    ...thats why this inquiry is so important. All the new information trickling out, those would have fallen under the table unnoticed in a single magistrates court case for example. ATM need to be looked into how its interlinked (certain bank(s) involved?)

  • @jeangenie5807
    @jeangenie580722 күн бұрын

    Did no one check the ATM machines, I am assuming these are the stand alone machines which are filled with notes. Therefore surely there was a check of how much money was or went in, and how much is left after a days trading, against the figures for withdrawals as part of out of the audit trail. If they didn't match up, then that should have been investigated every time, not just an assumption that the SPMR is on the fiddle.😢

  • @MrGavinBoyd
    @MrGavinBoyd22 күн бұрын

    Will any of those responsible go to prison?

  • @lindahaynes3475

    @lindahaynes3475

    19 күн бұрын

    Hope so, if they dont i wont be posting any more xmas cards etc , ecards will have to do.

  • @lamotiengodidal6511

    @lamotiengodidal6511

    18 күн бұрын

    No. The System looks after its own.

  • @janetmerner3731

    @janetmerner3731

    18 күн бұрын

    probably not Canada is like the UK and real criminals never go to prison here, especially if it would be embarrassing or they are well connected

  • @pauldevenport28320

    @pauldevenport28320

    17 күн бұрын

    If they don’t go to prison then I won’t use the post office ever again.

  • @sandrawhitehouse3998
    @sandrawhitehouse399818 күн бұрын

    This is beyond words.

  • @henrybartlett1986
    @henrybartlett198616 күн бұрын

    This is horrific, what an appalling thing to do.

  • @Honest-Don
    @Honest-Don20 күн бұрын

    Post office exec don't take any accountability for there actions,they need to go to court for there involvement in the cover up which sent hundreds to jail.

  • @tezinho81
    @tezinho8123 күн бұрын

    Down the rabbit hole we go...

  • @wolcek

    @wolcek

    23 күн бұрын

    Well, the post office lied once and denied everything - they have the experience and they good at this, whatever their other shortcomings might be.

  • @PJMcInerney

    @PJMcInerney

    22 күн бұрын

    Despite all the lies and bluster there are some nuggets of truth - one exec said the govt were never going to abandon horizon once the contract was signed - this goes back to Blair and Mandy - POL knew this and did their best to make it work - the shiny new acquisition had to prevail ‘at all costs’. Honestly even if one of those execs had raised questions he/she would likely have been shunted out

  • @julierogers1155

    @julierogers1155

    22 күн бұрын

    @@PJMcInerney And then that "one" theoretical exec would still have a claim to being moral ethical, and to being proficient at their job, IF they had raised questions.

  • @PJMcInerney

    @PJMcInerney

    22 күн бұрын

    @@julierogers1155 Re morals and ethics I do agree - might have been a shot across the bow but no more than that - would not have helped the SPMs all that much - From the enquiry ' there was no way Horizon would be phased out despite it ''not being fit for purpose'' (David Mills) - 'It would have been a massive write off for the Government'

  • @julierogers1155

    @julierogers1155

    22 күн бұрын

    @@PJMcInerney Yes, the Government would have had to put in some effort to prove that Fujitsu's Horizon software/system was "faulty" and devious (meaning that accounts could be accessed -and changed- remotely). Would that have not led to the Government being able to demand, and obtain, a refund from Fujitsu? Fujitsu HAS TO BE liable here, yes?

  • @therealrobertbirchall
    @therealrobertbirchall22 күн бұрын

    So the question is how many other large organisations like the electricity supply companies for example have rouge IT systems and accounts?

  • @julierogers1155

    @julierogers1155

    22 күн бұрын

    FAIR question.

  • @tonybennett9617

    @tonybennett9617

    22 күн бұрын

    This probably the tip of the iceberg

  • @childofthe50s53

    @childofthe50s53

    19 күн бұрын

    Rogue

  • @therealrobertbirchall

    @therealrobertbirchall

    18 күн бұрын

    @@childofthe50s53 thank

  • @jimg2850
    @jimg285022 күн бұрын

    Since when did ATMs issue 92p withdrawals?

  • @informedchoice2249
    @informedchoice224922 күн бұрын

    All these people could have come forward and spoken at any point. They all said nothing and let people hang.

  • @sheilabernadetteclairemcin1107
    @sheilabernadetteclairemcin110722 күн бұрын

    SHOCKING SHOCKING

  • @tonylloyd9285
    @tonylloyd928516 күн бұрын

    This is a total disgrace.

  • @maunsell24
    @maunsell2413 күн бұрын

    The Post Office is a public corporation owned by the UK government (as its single shareholder) which is deliberately dragging its feet in paying full compensation to SPMs thereby adding insult to injury to them and their families. The entire edifice is rotten to its foundations. I'll bet that none of those responsible will end up behind bars. The Establishment will close ranks and see to that. If I'm wrong, they will be held in cushy open prisons with day release. How ironic it would be if their compulsory work detail was sewing mail bags for RM. Fujitsu has a lot to answer for as well. I wonder how many people are aware that itcurrently has contracts worth £1.4 BILLION with HMRC. If there is anything nasty lurking in the systems there it could affect an order of magnitude more people than the SPMs whose lives have been ruined in the current scandal.

  • @user-cl7ub8ft6x
    @user-cl7ub8ft6x19 күн бұрын

    This PO scandal is absolutely appalling! There is a saying: 'that power corrupts!' The Post Office bosses seemed to be corrupted by power and money! The postmasters were the 'little people's against the PO hierarchy and power!

  • @eastwest1362
    @eastwest136222 күн бұрын

    Postmasters top up data errors in the Horizon shambles with their own savings, profits surge, director’s bonuses are awarded (due to their superb skilled management), Royal awards are handled out willy-nilly…….. Is that a win-win-win outcome ?

  • @grahamsclater9988
    @grahamsclater998820 күн бұрын

    What happened to the money that disapeared from the accounts?

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Bonuses .

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Bonuses

  • @phillipwong3754
    @phillipwong375422 күн бұрын

    Individuals who works for the post office and Fujitsu needs to be personally criminally accountable for this. This should set a precedence that people can't hide behind corporate veils when they were personally rewarded for their fraud and victims' miseries. This has to stop and it should include politicians.

  • @ChoppingtonOtter

    @ChoppingtonOtter

    22 күн бұрын

    At best, we may see some lower down thrown under the bus. I've followed the enquiry daily and the intelligence level of their "investigators " is truly and staggeringly low to anyone who has worked as an investigator in a professional basis. I watched in open mouthed amazement at the low quality people they had on their books. Then came the higher ups and legal execs right now. They knew nothing, can't recall anything, and all answers are met with "I think/ to the best of my recollection/probably/ I don't recall/ I might" and so on. All weasel words and avoiding definitive answers so they can weasel back on them if evidence emerges they don't yet know. What has emerged are a gang of morally bankrupt self satisfied egotists. The whole organisation seems to have been toxic. Disturbingly, the higher up they have been, the more relaxed and arrogant they have been - clearly totally confident nothing will happen to them... and they are most likely correct because the establishment will *absolutely* not want to set a precedent of the fatcats being held responsible. Thats the very last precedent they will want to set.

  • @PaulLowmanNZ
    @PaulLowmanNZ22 күн бұрын

    I wonder if other businesses have been affected by these sorts of IT errors and caused similar egregious treatment of innocent staff members?

  • @dingopisscreek
    @dingopisscreek17 күн бұрын

    People at the top of the PO ''will cooperate with the enquiry'' only because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE - As for being 'sorry', they are only 'sorry' because THEY HAVE BEEN FOUND OUT. If this had all not been discovered they would have carried on taking their bonuses and pocketing the money that wasn't theirs from the wrongly convicted SPM's.

  • @llewev
    @llewev13 күн бұрын

    The problem with a lot of this is it gets into the hands of lawyers who have only the vaguest notion of how a computer works and what can go wrong. The arguments then go off at tangents without getting to the real issues.

  • @hens_ledan
    @hens_ledan18 күн бұрын

    This will also go far, far, beyond the Post Office to many large corporations, operating without external oversight, with no executive interest in the real-world business processes, all pinning their hopes that a 'new system' will resolve all their issues, improve performance and magically transform their off-system processes, waste and poor customer service. I have seen this first hand in the university sector where millions have been spent at each, always involving huge overspend, delays often a year, two, or three years, software suppliers trusted completely and staff told to put up with the process they are given rather than being able to raise issues. At the heart of this are senior managers with no interest in business processes, a lack of basic management or project management skills and expertise, and inability to think critically about the needs of the business. It usually involves the guilty failing upward. I'd like to see a wide ranging audit of the university sector into mis-spending and lack of accountability, but I'm not holding my breath.

  • @paulbird3235
    @paulbird323519 күн бұрын

    This was ALL about covering the Post Ofice Executives backs, and protecting their huge bonuses. These people had NO conscience or decency, how pathetic they are.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Jail jail jail jail !

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Jail jail jail jail jail !!!!

  • @leso204
    @leso20422 күн бұрын

    So how deep does the rabbit hole go ? is the whole post office system corrupted' as well as horizon ??

  • @anthonywilson8998
    @anthonywilson899819 күн бұрын

    This is all well and good but does not account for people seeing their balances altered as they watched. Some. One was actually making that shortfall using the link from Fujitsu. All this distraction is intended to detract from the fact that Fujitsu were proved to alter balances and take money from postmasters. When is this going to be investigarpted ???

  • @JohnCates-tn1gq
    @JohnCates-tn1gq20 күн бұрын

    This is easy to understand but the top shelf did not want to acknowledge this.

  • @user-mo5om5tv1m
    @user-mo5om5tv1m18 күн бұрын

    It is NOT the Post Office that should be on trial it is the individuals who committed perjury, continuing to blame "The Post Office " as an entity will get them off the hook.

  • @grahamsclater9988
    @grahamsclater998820 күн бұрын

    They were all complicit in the lies...

  • @234laptop
    @234laptop19 күн бұрын

    It's time for a reform. The Post Office in it's current form needs to be shut down and a new service established. Regionally managed with properly employed staff. No one working currently in Post Office management in any senior level should be a part of the new service.

  • @1949cr
    @1949cr14 күн бұрын

    The honest overview of what went wrong is obvious. Senior management were focused on turning the post office business around with the end benefit being grandiose bonuses and assured job secirity. Senior management ensured buy-in from every managerial level. This progressed to such a state that good people chose to close one eye to the obvious. What a sad state of affairs that otherwise good people eould sell their souls for a handful of silver.

  • @thebeesnuts777
    @thebeesnuts77722 күн бұрын

    No wonder Camelot , didn't fight their ousting, they mysteriously backed away from their initial appeal, who would do that if your a business who had potential profit's to gain, what were they shown that stopped them from fighting Allwyn ?

  • @djsiuk
    @djsiuk20 күн бұрын

    The Majority would like to see life without parole sentencing for everyone in the Postoffice involved or aware.

  • @janeconnors1807
    @janeconnors180717 күн бұрын

    Those responsible for prosecutions, knowing full well there were problems, should be prosecuted hastily

  • @anonnemo2504
    @anonnemo250419 күн бұрын

    I wonder if Fujitsu, formerly ICL in the UK, had any hand in the ATM issues. My professional experience of ICL software, in other sectors of the UK economy, was that it was rarely commercially released without containing "undocumented features", many of them quite serious. Re the inquiry, having watched many witnesses over several hours, I would be very surprised if some of them did not turn out to be as guilty as a puppy sat next to a pile of poo and I cannot understand why police investigations are not already under way.

  • @fuzzilu
    @fuzzilu22 күн бұрын

    Quelle surprise .. we the little people are being down trodden by corporations and un caring management.

  • @therealrobertbirchall

    @therealrobertbirchall

    22 күн бұрын

    Not just the PO the privatised utilities are robbing us with false accounting as well as inflated prices.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    ALL the time .

  • @GrandpaVince
    @GrandpaVince23 күн бұрын

    Its not just postman pat it's also his black and white cat

  • @24321619
    @2432161920 күн бұрын

    Talking to the post office about Horizon is rather like talking to a member of the flat earth society.

  • @Perry840
    @Perry84022 күн бұрын

    I've been wondering about all the other countries that were using the same systems. I doubt this was isolated to the UK

  • @janeday9148
    @janeday914812 күн бұрын

    Confidence in the Justice System & The Government Labour or Conservative will only be regained when all the people concerned in this horror face criminal charges of the most serious nature

  • @mikeullyett
    @mikeullyett22 күн бұрын

    There is no doubt the whole system issue is insanely wrong. But what made the senior executives keep hiding the faults? This is more than legal and individual claims. They could have had a personal interest in Horizon failing?

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    BONUSES silly .

  • @julieyates405
    @julieyates40515 күн бұрын

    This situation is truly shocking, how could these managers live with themselves? Sooner or later we will learn about unsafe convictions in the NHS too!

  • @continental_drift
    @continental_drift19 күн бұрын

    Lets not forget that, if a Post Office was robbed then the SMP was also held liable. They didn't find this out until it was too late and no one had insurance.

  • @nicolaallen7698
    @nicolaallen769819 күн бұрын

    Yes it does, MP's and Starmer who did ask questions and never asked the questions why so many Postmasters and Mistresses were being charged.

  • @SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers
    @SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers17 күн бұрын

    I am conflicted. Avoid the Post Office to punish the PO.. Not avoid the Post Office so as not to further cause hardship to the subpostmasters.

  • @TinfoilHat007
    @TinfoilHat00719 күн бұрын

    Vennels and all others involved in this deception, must be jailed for a very long time. Their titles, and all assets should be sold off to be added to the compensation that the sub post masters truly deserve. Let them know how it feels to lose everything!

  • @melvinharris2404
    @melvinharris240413 күн бұрын

    why is it no one with evidence and proof ever held accountable and punished, there is inquiries after inquiries verdict ? Another inquiry of what to do now no one as ever stood trial stealing these good people’s personal money isn’t that theft does any one get justice?

  • @derekwhite2929
    @derekwhite292918 күн бұрын

    A vicious and nasty business!

  • @alansdorsetfossils4028
    @alansdorsetfossils402816 күн бұрын

    Shocking absolutely shocking.

  • @ianpurcell4445
    @ianpurcell444519 күн бұрын

    There so sorry they've been found out

  • @exiledscouser919
    @exiledscouser91917 күн бұрын

    I am at a loss as to why the PO took these cases to court. Disclosure under CPIA 1996 require the prosecution to disclose anything which assists a defendant or which undermines their position. Knowing this, everyone involved in the decision NOT TO disclose known weaknesses and to proceed anyway is liable to prosecution for Perverting the Course of Justice. That’s everyone from investigators to senior executives who had the final say on whether to proceed. Deliberately suppressing material harmful to your case was criminal then and is criminal now. Someone’s going down over this.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Doubt that very much . Vennels will as the sacrificial lamb , but the rest will go free and the establishment will hope public will have a short memory .

  • @caroledearden6205
    @caroledearden620511 күн бұрын

    Convictions against sub postmasters should be quashed and prosecutions be brought against Post Office executives and their lawyers.

  • @johnruiters8217
    @johnruiters821713 күн бұрын

    So will the courts and judges also be held accountable for passing judgements based on false evidence???

  • @MM.-qo7pk
    @MM.-qo7pk16 күн бұрын

    It’s time all ministers were post masters were effected from around the country should get involved as the post office gang is now making a mockery out of enquiry ! Ministers should be supporting the people now !!!

  • @BrainfromSpain
    @BrainfromSpain13 күн бұрын

    Fujitsu are still getting Government contracts! WHY?

  • @CMWobby1
    @CMWobby119 минут бұрын

    Yet another sickening display of post office greed and lies. It no longer shocks me after watching the enquiry into the post office crimes.

  • @user-mb2if8rn3x
    @user-mb2if8rn3x19 күн бұрын

    Vennells should be put on trial in front of the whole nation for them to watch and then sentanced to slop out for the rest of her days..too many of these millionaire company execs get away with it and now here's a chance to to make an example..

  • @anllpp
    @anllpp18 күн бұрын

    It's a strange one.

  • @charlesmayes7333
    @charlesmayes733313 күн бұрын

    Why aren't they all on remand

  • @informedchoice2249
    @informedchoice224922 күн бұрын

    These people should be in prison. No wonder Vennells is playing the religious card, she'd better have some asbestos pants.

  • @carolynellis387
    @carolynellis38718 күн бұрын

    All these execs need jail time

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    And lengthy time .

  • @grahamjesson5464
    @grahamjesson546416 күн бұрын

    not enough accountability with any directorships in britain, yet they affect the lives of so many. Staff, customers and public.

  • @raymondkelly3181
    @raymondkelly318115 күн бұрын

    I'm a software guy, and these are very simple systems. That aside the PO had that mindset to chase SPMs and with it pulling in the various layers of 'professionals'. Mr Bates will raise a lot of money for the private procecutions. The focus will hopefully be to take the money off these people - forget jail - the money👏

  • @mikesmith5083
    @mikesmith508321 күн бұрын

    ‘The sub postmasters were entirely responsible for any losses. It’s in the contract’. This was the line blindly followed by the post office. They repeatedly ignored the complaints from SPMs regarding the IT systems and pursued them on the basis of an unfair contract.

  • @vanessalochrie3680

    @vanessalochrie3680

    19 күн бұрын

    No they were not. The contract says 'The subpostmaster is responsible for all losses caused through his negligence, carelessness or error and also for all losses caused by his assistants...” 'His negligence, carelessness or error' is not the same as 'losses caused by the Horizon system or any other IT system. The PO took money from them fraudulently from the very start.

  • @mikesmith5083

    @mikesmith5083

    18 күн бұрын

    @@vanessalochrie3680 Totally agree 100%

  • @matthewn1805
    @matthewn180518 күн бұрын

    PO knew there were problems with the systems as payment of these 'shortfalls' resulted in very large 'non-assignable' receipts which in turn massively increased profits, so bonuses....

  • @lewismorgan839
    @lewismorgan83917 күн бұрын

    This goes way further than post office

  • @DIYTinkerer
    @DIYTinkerer18 күн бұрын

    The PO is beyond help now, these execs. Are either epically incompetent or deliberately fraudulent, either way prison feels like the right place for the exec board to spend their remaining days, but we all know that will never happen.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Too many powerful friends in the right places .

  • @pillowcase2006
    @pillowcase200618 күн бұрын

    Nooooo, really?!

  • @andycollins7215
    @andycollins721517 күн бұрын

    When are people who know what was happening going to jail?

  • @kitkat186
    @kitkat18614 күн бұрын

    Expose these corrupt people they are in places of authority, but have no conscience or empathy for the harm they cause others. All people are vulnerable, Vennells and others in the know got away with it for so long!

  • @charlesmayes7333
    @charlesmayes733313 күн бұрын

    Given that the post office is a public owned by the government the people who work for tem are in affect public servants so the law is exact in that malthesus in office is a jailable life sentence

  • @fireskycam9889
    @fireskycam988922 күн бұрын

    Vennels must face justice

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Will not . Best mates with Archbishop of Canterbury.

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    Will not . Best mates with Archbishop of Canterbury .

  • @user-dr3or9lh1l
    @user-dr3or9lh1l18 күн бұрын

    the government and the Royal mail knew what was going on..

  • @johnreed8336

    @johnreed8336

    13 күн бұрын

    AND DID NOTHING !

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