yeah, something about the “journey of liberation” take rubs me the wrong way. feel like it says so much more about how every single guy in the movie, even the ‘good’ ones, try to control this impressionable kid in some way. it’s really uncomfortable, but i enjoyed it. fun to hear some interesting negative takes here

@zachbirch1545

6 ай бұрын

Ya I feel the liberation thing was a sub theme to the main one on how all these men show a different way men want to box in women. And i think her journey through that is good, but its survival not a resounding success to be celebrated. Also the movie isn’t some direct analogy that we must fit into the logic of our world. It’s a journey in a different world with its own logic meant to make us consider our own. Not spoon feed us morality. The reviews Jake brings up seem to be trying to force a narrative they wanted. And so do Jake and Nadia. Though i agree the joke sex part of the movie got a little tired.

@recetasfaciles2816

6 ай бұрын

Para mí es divertida, pero también es reiterativa, provocativa de más, y en última instancia panfletera. Vuelve a los personajes herramientas para transmitir sus mensajes en vez de que se sientan como personajes reales. El final es también un happy ending que no me lo creí para nada.

@helvete_ingres4717

5 ай бұрын

but it's not actually right to think of her as a 'kid' b/c of her brain. ppl will read into that as she just 'is' a child in an adult body, which makes no sense as it's exploring how mind and body are interconnected and constructed thru one another.

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@helvete_ingres4717yes exactly. I think they )Jake and Naida) glossed too quickly over her becoming aware of her power to "make happy when Belly want". Imagine being a child in a fully mature body? Obviously masturbation would become the greatest thing you could do, and then sex (with the right partner) would become exhilirating. The film takes this in the logical conclusion and Duncan and the General play the two most toxic of male archetypes: the groomer and the abuser. The only "good" man in the film i sher "father" and even he created her to be an abomination int he first place. At the end of the day it is a fairy tale meant to be an allegory of a women's liberation from controlling men. The sex is an important part of the film, but it is way deeper than this and anyone getting hung up on the sex is letting their internal biases affect their viewing the film.

@ConeTheBoss559

3 ай бұрын

​@@MistaZULE That's mental gymnastics a bit though. Also, is the liberation and growing up of a woman supposed to be what the movie presented? Through men?

Hopefully I'm just stating the obvious but whatever. SPOILERS Forcefully being born (as a baby) into your dead mother's body, and immediately having to participate in adult society, adults being sexually attracted to your body, which isn't even your own body, being forced to deal with the bodily urges of someone else's body, without having the mental capacity or life experiences to think critically for yourself...is not the same as you, a real person, growing up in your own body, and learning how to deal with your own body and life challenges in your own time.

@fewntug3760

5 ай бұрын

That’s sort of a lot of the point tho, in my mind, and part of her growth in the movie was becoming educated. That was so much of Lisbon and the boat and Athens (it was Athens, right?) and Paris.. so much of that was for her development. Obviously it’s pretty gross but the whole movie is pretty gross, you know?

@elcientefico

4 ай бұрын

It really could have done a lot more with what it had, that's what im starting to see

I've been struggling to find the words to explain why I didn't like this movie and you two have helped me find what it was. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that disliked it, especially after seeing how many awards and nominations it's gathering, and how the people at my cinema left saying things like "this was the best movie I've seen in my life". Absolutely nothing about the story of Bella struck me as liberating (especially not the sexual part), and instead as a constant tragedy bound to repeat itself, as you put it. Watching it felt extremely uncomfortable and I did not think it was worth it. Still, I thought it was visually captivating and Mark Ruffalo's acting was fantastic.

I agree that it was super disturbing. The visuals also felt very uneasy, off, surreal, and disturbing to me. I had nightmares all night after first seeing it and it makes me feel nauseous to think about.

@mariyakulyk7217

4 ай бұрын

When I left the cinema, I thought I was gonna throw up.

@braxtonwise9897

3 ай бұрын

Definitely interesting bc I didnt have too visceral of a reaction to the visuals, the sets and colors particularly. Pretty mixed on the story and the themes though

I definitely think all the disturbing contexts of this film are intentional, and it seems thematically messy on purpose. I hugely disagree with reviewers saying it’s this clear-cut liberating feminist thing. It’s a dark story that in a few ways almost plays like a cautionary tale where the villains kind of win in the end

@FruityHachi

5 ай бұрын

intentional sure, as a treat for people with immoral and illegal fetishes, like that scene of a father having his kids watch him do it

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

I mean there are no good guys in the film and at the end Bella commits the sins of her father and grandfather on the General showing that the cycle of abuse never truly ends, it just changes. Beautiful film and message if one can see it through all the internal biases.

@localforearm1627

4 ай бұрын

i think its your typical artsy fartsy subversive (bad) movie

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@localforearm1627if you thought it was bad then I don't want to hear what you think is good.

@localforearm1627

4 ай бұрын

@@MistaZULEany movie that isnt trying to normalize fucking a kid

i saw it as a microcosm of life on fast forward. the age discrepancy was used to draw attention to things in life that we are desensitized to

Agree with you both that the feminism via sexual liberation angle seems nonsensical given the context of the film - it didn't seem to me that the film was going for that at all, instead focusing on the ridiculous and disturbing things the men do. I liked the film a lot though, more for it's sense of humour and Lanthimos' unique style than any profound message.

You guys are gonna be PISSED when you find out that the director choose the cut the ending of the novel...and what that ending WAS. Because it COMPLETELY changes WHAT the story is about. The woman at the center of the movie is NOT what her "creator" claims. And when your find out what she REALLY IS...well, you're probably gonna be angry it was left out.

I agree with you. The movie tried to criticise male interpretations of female autonomy but was exactly that without any spin.

I am so happy that you hated it

I think many people are reading the sex liberation part wrong. In my opinion it s not about sex liberation at all, but about the way men think about women as pure sexual beings. The evolution from a purely nymphomaniac child as a girl in contact with only men to a fully realized woman having known the good and the bad and accepting life as it is is what makes the movie a 10/10 for me. If you can notice, the other women play a significant role in the evolution of Bella through the movie, teaching her how to think, cope with reality and love life itself. Of course sex plays a significant role in the movie, but it’s not as big as many people think it is.

@be_an_rm

5 ай бұрын

I see where you're coming from -- I was uncomfortable with the movie because of the portrayal of young Bella as a hyper-sexual being, but I understand how it could be less straightforward in its message than it seems; subverting the audience with comedic moments while sympathising with Bella because of her abuse. However, it becomes a problem when looking at how everyone else saw the movie. Looking on letterboxd, the fans clearly see it as a sexually empowering and liberating film. Even if it's not, it would be an issue how grossly misinterpreted it is -- if most people misunderstood it, then surely there's something wrong with the way it told its message. [Mild spoilers] So, I feel that it's very earnest in its liberation themes. The sexual scenes with uneven power dynamics are portrayed as self-discovery and by the end of the film she creates her own reality rather than accepting this one. The other women in the film are blindly supportive of her, even when she's still not mentally developed and making mistakes (she only becomes her own person at the very end of the film). The comedy underlies an earnest and straightforward story that's _too_ straightforward for the world of the film.

@NateGH36O

5 ай бұрын

@@be_an_rm Because at that point she was (in her mind) a teenager and teens love to have sex. There's really not a lot more than that. People have overanalyzed that part to death.

@Calibound8

4 ай бұрын

Hyper sexual? yea there’s quite a few, then ends all this with her reading everything, it’s just NATURAL! You do know babies masturbate no? Y’all do realize this is about a woman growing up and sex is an absolute part, and women’s sexuality just isn’t fairly seen - not disturbing at all…

@Calibound8

4 ай бұрын

Wow, Ridiculous. and women, keep pushing the bounds of what average people think about female sexuality, till perhaps the virgin whore thing is strictly confined to the bedroom……oh and disturbing is good place for art, but we don’t live in a world of hey, I’m going to see things that are challenging and I’ll explore these/my biases - ruffalo’s character isn’t thoughtful like ‘abusive’ or whatever, HE becomes the victim! Have y’all taken a lot of film analysis classes? And taking advantage of? U did see she made him poor…and takes actual charge of her own sexuality and his!…and FYI: BABIES MASTURBATE! Abuse as an excuse for abusiveness? This is not remotely abusive. And Defoe of course she’d go back! They did not abuse her at ‘home’! Do u visit ur parents?? Seems a good couple views more here would inform y’all more… and a goal we still have in our still so messed up cultural comfort with sex…, this was nothing but great…understanding of prostitution/stripping is needed here. Challenge perceptions…disturbing is actually a touchdown…and ud now investigate all the prostitutes? This isn’t the film focus and y want to add at least another 1/2 hour for that? Not important content.

@Retrolovegamer

4 ай бұрын

Man doesn't understand shit about sexual exploration of women , and this movie shows if it is soo good , why almost all women I see review it hate it , sexualized movie about an infant taking advantage of.

The movie may be artistically brilliant, but it's empty of character development and humanity. This uninhibited female baby-Frankenstein has no heart nor moral compass to guide her. She is free to do as she pleases with no constraints. The "edgy" director, sadly, has focused his gaze on Bella's mechanistic "furious jumpings" and does not proceed developing his character and telling the real story of Bella--not inside the many bedrooms' acrobatics that take 3/4 of this whimsical misanthropic susversive movie, but outside the bedrooms. This is a tragic flaw that borders on paedophilic intent--no consent from the uninhibited robot-baby girl who was given no "life map", free of parenting, and is free to do, uninhibited, as she pleases---with no constraints, no consequences such as pregnancy, STDs, rape, assault in Victorian England! “I am a flawed, experimenting person,” she says at the end having wasted her life with self-indulgent misadventures, the character's stunted development having failed to confront difficult moral choices. She echoed the film's own stunted vision.

Finally, I found a review I can agree with. Everybody seems to love this movie so much and it is just confusing to me. I'm starting to think some people just say they loved this out of peer pressure or smth. I felt incredibly uncomfortable watching this in the cinema! Personally I think the movie was going in a great direction until the whole prostitution thing. It felt nonsense, very forced, and just disgusting. Not only it's not "empowering" it is also absurd character-developement-wise. Like, it adds nothing. It's a shame really, because it looks mesmerizing and very original. Great analyses as always!

@mariyakulyk7217

4 ай бұрын

Glad I am not alone who thinks the same way. For me it is also lacking the trauma linked to whatever she experiences in brothel...

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

believing that people liked something out of peer pressure is really dumb. Sorry. This movie was great but if one is too focused on the sex and being confronted with their own personal biases on what sex is (Like Jake and Nadia) then they aren't going to like this movie. This movie is one of a kind. It's a fairy tale that does more work with set design and camera movements than any film I've seen in the last 20 years. It's funny, horrific, insightful and contemplative. It doesn't hold your hand and lets you piece the world together as you interpret it. It's probably my favourite movie since Parasite and the Lighthouse. So no, it's not because of peer pressure. People can like different things.

The movie is questioning the unwritten societal rules, and using sex as the ultimate stigma. However, I also viewed this movie as significantly anti-sex, in the way that none of Bella's development was made through it. The way Bella developed was through reading books, acknowledging societal unjustice, and through working and being faced with unfair conditions. Sex is seen as, one, a weapon men like Mark Rufallo use to coerce and manipulate women, and two, generally childish. The older Bella grows mentally, the less interested in sex she becomes. Lastly, why I understand the criticism for the lack of menstruation as it is an important part of becoming a woman, that is mostly a bodily transformation. These are circumvented by Bella's body already being adult, therefore the movie decided to solely focuse on the mental transformation, as well as the breaking down of societal rules.

Not sure if this has been addressed in the comments yet, but the book is split into two parts. The first is Max's narrative, which is essentially exactly the same as the film. The second part is a long letter by Bella basically rejecting *everything* in Max's version of events/the film and urging the reader to not to believe any of it. Clearly, for simplicity's sake, they had to remove that element of the book from the film but, in doing so, the filmmakers tie themselves up in *so* many moral knots about Bella's sexuality and her relationships with other men. Honestly, the book should never have been adapted. One critic called the film a "mistake" and I think I agree with that assessment.

For me its joyous because of just portrayal of Bella reacting to the dark world with joy and making up new ways to deal with things

@butterflyclip

6 ай бұрын

Also though the sexuality is weird I think it's kind of an interesting way to view sex. You say she doesn't understand what sex is which is also the reaction I had, but then again we have only given sex these extra meanings. Yes risks exist and whatever I don't think what I'm saying applies irl, but in this scifi world where rules of morality seem bent it is more about mentally disabled people and about how weirdly society views sex.

@ioncekilledamanwithmyshoe

4 ай бұрын

The story is about a dead woman’s corpse who is implanted with an infant brain. In her child-brained state she has sex with a series of men and ends up marrying the man who essentially groomed her, this is presented as sexual liberation when in fact it is literally r*pe of a mentally disabled woman. The theme of despair in an unjust world is brushed away as it ends with her sipping a martini in her mansion. In reality, this is nothing but a twisted male fantasy disguised as feminism.

@Calibound8

4 ай бұрын

Yes…but weird? Why, a detailed explanation is necessary. She doesn’t have ‘weird sex’ she dominates!

@barbietarbox

4 ай бұрын

My partner made a good point; some scifi literature does delve into bizarre and taboo explorations of sexuality and the human condition which can be really compelling and gets you thinking... however when on film a level of imagination and interpretation is gone, can come across more indulgent and voyeuristic

Wait wait wait... are you telling me this movie... was commenting on something? (I loved it, but I can certainly see where Jake is coming from.) I also agree a lot of commentary seems to be taking the wrong message away from Poor Things. I found the ending to be disturbing and think a lot of people are forgetting she is still absolutely a near child be the end of it. But I think despite the commentary, that is the argument being made. The world will gloss over how much Bella was put through an a ton of perversion was downplayed be the males in the story all the way to the end.

@solokom

4 ай бұрын

" forgetting she is still absolutely a near child be the end of it" - she is definitely not a child anymore at the end. The crisis she has on the cruise when she discovers the cruelty of the world are obviously her teenage years. This is what happens when you begin to grow up and to understand that bad things happen to good people, that life isn`t fair and that grown ups are flawed people too and not the almighty beings as you might see them as a child. At the very end, she takes care of her father and also his legacy, deciding for herself what she wants in life and following him in his footsteps. So she is at the beginning of adulthood at this point.

@richardkern112

4 ай бұрын

She's definitely an adult by the end. FWIW Emma Stone says she believed Bella to be a precocius teen when she starts having sex

@killeryhiltons8499

4 ай бұрын

Exactly.

They should have sold therapy dogs at the ticket booth, to help us deal with this revolting, sexist mess.

I’m so so happy to find other people who hated it! I left the theatre incredibly disturbed. I was so confused to see a million and one positive reviews about “liberation” and to hear the laughter in the theatre

12:10 to 12:55 - totally agree! One random point about this,and maybe it's just me, but that's very much a man's interpretation of a woman's "solo activity" (not sure the best euphemism here hahaha). With all the ooohhhs and aaaahhhhs and faces. Thats very "adult film" IMO, I don't think that's how that character would go about it and react. I feel like the reaction would be more curious and/or surprised, and not so erotic as it was portrayed.

@l.l.storrie3851

4 ай бұрын

YES!! Thank you!! I have been saying this all along, that Bella’s oohs and ahhhs and O face are 100% male gaze driven. Sure, during the sex scenes one would make pleasurable noises/faces, but NOT in this way. The way she was acting was as if she had seen a lot of pornography and imitated that, which obviously she didn’t. It felt totally inauthentic and you are the FIRST and ONLY person I have seen that mentioned this! Agreed!

I love you man, I felt so alone

The way they go about it is just so disgusting. The term “furious jumping” literally makes me nauseous…

I really wanted the movie to explore more areas of ethics, nature vs nurture, and how Bella would actually function in society. I really liked it, especially the performances and basically all the technical aspects like cinematography, but I just found the direction the film took to be a little too narrow. It’s pretty much exclusively about her sexual liberation/discovery for the entire thing and imo it could’ve done more with the great premise. It felt less morally ambiguous than Lanthimos’ previous works like Killing of a Sacred Deer or The Favourite. Also, Emma Stone can never get enough credit for this performance, she’s unrecognizable, fearless, strong, funny, etc, she won’t win the Oscar but it’s one of the best performances I’ve ever seen.

@l.l.storrie3851

4 ай бұрын

Well, surprise surprise, she won the Oscar. Of course she did. Any time an actress does basically soft porn, they win the Oscar. So liberating and empowering for us women, eh?!

Your "poo things" review on Letterboxd had me rolling.

I don't know, the movie was so surreal and dream-like that I never felt that I'm watching real people with baby brains inside them but rather different social... archetypes? Roles? Like Emma Stone said, the whole movie is a big metaphor :P It was so on the nose in times that yeah Jake, I thing you could call it a parody. A surreal parody of society and how it shapes us. I mean, Dafoe was carrying the literal scars from his father. Anyways, haven't read the book either.

@antonioabreu5736

5 ай бұрын

Couldn't agree more. The amount of repetitive metaphors and archetypes makes so the plot has no stakes for me. I found the disturbing aspects empty. I would like it somewhat if it was actually feminist on its message but I agree with Nadia and Jake that the liberation plot doesn't work because she is supposed to be a kid. Really enjoyed the review!!!

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@antonioabreu5736she is not supposed to be a kid. By the time she gets to Paris she is around 18 developmentally and by the end of the film, a fully mature adult. I'm not sure how people missed that she formed full sentences, walked normally, and could voice her wants and needs articulately. She was an adult by the time she chooses to marry Max the second time.

@ConeTheBoss559

3 ай бұрын

​@MistaZULE She can barely walk properly and doesn't even know the word sex by the time she is "furious jumping". Any other interpretation is just mental gymnastics

Thank you for giving an honest reaction and questioning the “liberation” narrative of the critical consensus.

i really loved this movie while understanding your arguments - i think that what jake was trying to imply as a layer of irony to all the disturbing things and evil characters is there, just because of how everything felt filtered by bellas perspective - the way some of the lines are delivered by duncan -im drinking heavily- or his childish jealousy, or the character of alfie (victorias husband) just walking everywhere with a gun - i felt like everything was there and you could make your judgements while watching but still theres this lack of fear or even emotion from bella. - not only the bad things like those but also the good ones - the landscapes and buldings have these weird colors and shapes that feel really like youre seeing them thru the eyes of a child, or the music with these fantastical wonder. i just think this movie is really good in mixing the exaggerated beauty of life and disgraces of people, of course always objectifying and using bella

I think her motor skills do not keep up with her brain, and her social skills are going to develop more slowly as they are just learned. I really don't think she is a baby very long. Even where she is first stumbling around, she is a toddler. Later, she is having conversations with her words messed around. But that is a fine point. The whole starting point of her history, where the doctor chooses not to save the mother when he _states that he could have,_ and instead "saves" the baby, whom he could probably have saved with the C-section, but he is really only doing it to have an experiment. (Which is what his father kept doing to him throughout his childhood, so that makes sense.) The nudity in the film is quite ugly except for the black and white section, and she seems to have horrible experiences for the most part with the sex in the brothel, except for a couple of the men (the priest, for instance). They had to do a different edit for the UK because the part where they father brings his sons with him to the brothel to be educated on sex violated their Protection of Children Act. It was wild to me that no thought is given to menstruation, contraception (there were contraceptive sponges and condoms at this time), or venereal disease (also prevalent at this time (until she and Max are discussing marriage again and he asks whether she has been tested. I realize this hews heavily toward fantasy, but they don't shy away from other things. Then they throw in this whole attempted female genital mutilation (clitoral castration) subplot at the end. We can discuss that but not have Bella dealing with her period or explain why she isn't having one; I would guess because the body she is using is actually dead in some sense -- I'm not sure whether we are supposed to think that, as obviously this story is modeled on _Frankenstein._

I agree with man so much i hated this so much

I find the Fiancé character much more disturbing, because he knew everything and took advantage of Bella in proposing to her. I can forgive Mark Ruffalo’s character at first for just thinking Bella is just weird and kinky, but after the dinner party he should have known better. I thought the only “liberating” part was Bella hooking up with the other worker, because that’s the only example of a relationship that Bella actually wanted to be in and wasn’t coerced into.

YES! A lack of curiosity from Bella on anything else compared to her fascination with sex made her "growth" when she starts to read and learn feel empty.

@richardkern112

4 ай бұрын

You mean like her lack of curiosity with social conventions and poverty, which the movie spent a lot of time on?

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

she begins to become an adult when being exposed to two friends who do not view her as a sexual object on the boat. She discovers a love of reading and philosophy and Duncan (the grooming manipulative child that he is) tries to deny her an education even saying that "she was losing her adorable way of speaking". How some people miss the boat and Alexandria as her first steps into maturity I will not understand. This scene is far more important than any sex scene because it is the first time she makes a decision for herself. Her going with Duncan to Lisbon is a decision but presented by Duncan so it cannot be entirely seen as her first autonomous decision.

@earthculture9462

4 ай бұрын

@@MistaZULE Didn't miss that. It was my favorite part of the movie. It feels empty because she's missing so many other vital curiosities before she gets to that point. There are hints, like her appreciating music, and the dance scene but in comparison to the screen time on sexual discovery with an apple or ruffalo, it's extremely minor. For example compare the scene where she discovers the apple vs. when she looks out over the boat. The contrast I think might be on purpose too. The world is beautifully designed but also artificial and is never truly appreciated or looked at with wonder by bella. The scene where she is introduced to the horror of the world, reinforces that concept by zooming out from the horror to the landscape itself. Or when she throws up, or the killing of the bird. It's all undercutting the wonder we as an audience might feel but also there's never an indication Bella is interested in the first place. Considering how much effort was put in the world and set design, it feels like a major oversight. And it ultimately makes her growth feel empty and unearned because she never had a childlike sense of wonder for the world itself before reading about her world.

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@earthculture9462 Are you forgetting about the scene in Lisbon where she discovered the women singing Fado on the balcony? Or the entire dance scene is her discovering a love for something other than sex. There are many moments that show her discovering the beauty of the world not tied to sex. The apple scene at the dinner table was important for the film because it is the first time Bella is told to hide her sexual interest from "polite society" which pushes her to join Duncan who is the only person in her life that is telling her to give in to her desires. Every single scene int hsi movie is important and I stand by my opinion that anyone havig a difficult time viewing sex in the film has a personal bias against sex in our society. Remember, Emma Stone was a producer on the film and had a lot more control than the average actor in her situation. She chose to film those scenes. Everything was intentional.

What i cant get out of my head is that these guys couldve made a movie about anything and they chose to make a movie about a prostitute baby. It just grosses me out. Especially knowing what we know about Hollywood

OMG, thank you so much for this video lol, you brought up so many of the exact points I brought up with my friend after watching it. It felt very shallow

I see the movie as what happens when a child isn't raised to feel shame, but is allowed to grow with enough guidance to keep her safe. She isn't kept from mimicking her father, being told "no, science and exploration is for boys." She isn't shamed for discovering sexual pleasure. Ruffalo's character, making up a legally binding contract for her to be married, decides he is going to take advantage of such _free spirit_, with the pretense that he is going to show her adventure. But like most men, he gets possessive of such a free spirit. While out in the world, she learns more of what she likes and also how there is a tendency of "polite society" to hold people down with monolithic expectations. She runs into the cognitive dissonances of valid and contradictory philosophies, with a mind that has not been hampered by expectations of staying infantilized and demure, and finally loses her "intellectual innocence" by getting a _gut punch_ to see the gross injustices that the world is capable of, and so becomes an adult (more ready to process such horrors because she was not raised to be concerned with preparing for a man and his egotist honor). So it is a very Feminist tale. Do you believe in Godwin, and his budding Feminism to not treat her like his father treated him?

I've loved all of Yorgos Lanthimos' films and I found Poor Things to be lacking some of the most compelling aspects of his other films, and while I typically try to avoid docking films and directors for my own expectations, I think my age and the amount of my life that I've spent on the internet just made this film a shockingly boring watch that had me pining for a screening of literally any of his other films instead. All of Yorgos' films up until this point have stood out to me for two major reasons, beyond the meticulous/perfectionist approach he takes to all their component parts - first, it's that there's always genuine surprise and the films always take a turn that I never expected, and second, it's that his films go beyond plain weirdness and quirkiness and actually manage to marry emotional pathos with thematic coherence, so that even the downer developments in his stories feel fulfilling. Poor Things had two moments that made me sit up in anticipation of something that would deliver those two things, but both of those moments were nothing more than fleeting aberrations, speed bumps whose impact lasted about as long as one of Willem Dafoe's burp bubbles. The entire film felt like nothing more than a checklist of "provocative" things being crossed out, and as a truebred Gen Z internet-addict, none of the items on the checklist felt actually provocative in the slightest. Just like the holdovers, there wasn't a single story development in the film that I didn't expect to see when I watched the trailer. From start to finish, everything that happened in bella's journey was almost parodically limited to exactly what I imagined I'd get to see in the film after watching the trailer. again, I try not to dock films for being rote or expected/cliched in any way. but what made this particularly disappointing was the fact that this was a Lanthimos film, combined with the fact that all the "provocative" stuff in the film felt like a rundown of an NSFW Tumblr page from over a decade ago. All the quirkiness of the production design couldn't stop that reality from making the film an absolute bore. I feel like older people who didn't grow up on the internet might find the film wild and feel like it was a jolt of electricity to their system, but for me it felt like taking sleeping pills, and that's something I never imagined I'd say about a Yorgos Lanthimos film.

@recetasfaciles2816

6 ай бұрын

Well said 👏

I adore this movie, but you guys offer an interesting take that at least makes me understand what your problems are.

@recetasfaciles2816

6 ай бұрын

It has a lot of issues, but still fun and diferent

This how Hollyweird really is. And people think these are just movies. Agenda driven.

In my opinion, while I totally understand the criticisms, the movie was more about human development as a whole rather than gender commentary. Despite it still being very important to the story, I don’t think its aims are to be a necessarily feminist story but more of a story of a remarkable human being who is able to experience a lot of the human condition in a very short amount of time. In that way I feel like the movie is more about life than freedom, as Bella herself doesn’t have external power throughout all parts of the movie but she’s able to hold herself together and evolve in a very high-wired way. Highs and lows, complicated feelings towards people, reconciling suffering with hope, experiencing both power and degradation, it’s supposed to be sort of an absurdist overview of a lot of developmental stages and philosophical ideas. That’s why I personally love the movie despite agreeing that there are a lot of flaws when looking at it with a close eye. The comedy and filmmaking style is also totally my cup of tea so I suppose there is that bias as well haha

Also, what Nadia mentions about movie being an 8 but a 4 in terms of "is it for me" has been my experience with Yorgos films in general XD Feel like everything is portrayed so raw, and in an ugly and dark way. Acting though, always amazing

first saltburn, now poor things, jake you're tearing me apart.

honestly, I thought I was alone in my thoughts on the film. But yeah, I agree with both of you on several of each of your respective points. Also, Pinocchio anyone?

So, you’re telling me it’s BIG (with Tom Hanks), but if they just spent most of the movie exploring the cringey romance?

@KayPeeOpee

6 ай бұрын

It might be worth watching the movie on your own instead of creating a takeaway from a review

@mhawang8204

5 ай бұрын

There’s no real romance in this movie. It’s just Bella learning the good and bad and everything in between in the world.

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

Please watch the film before viewing a spoiler review. You may have denied yourself a unique viewing experience. If you love cinema it's best to avoid doing this in the future for your own sake.

You know, while I did enjoy Poor Things, it’s totally fair to say the actual film did not live up to the premise of the film. For one, it was, in my opinion, too focused on Bella discovering sexuality, and not focused enough on her discovering the world.

I think the distrubing parts are supposed to be disturbibg. One of the most important points of the movie is that men like the Mark Ruffalo character are attracted to this literal baby-brain woman, but are less into her the more she thinks for herself instead of just being a childish sex object. I think the "sexual liberation" angle come later. There's a point where she becomes uninterested in sex and only wants to read. She has to mature a bit more to actually have a healthy relationship with sex. Overall I feel like the character's arc is learning how to escape exploitation and make a life for herself on her own terms, no matter what horrible situations led up that point or how exploitative the world is. I liked it overall, but I do have issues with Max and God being sympathtic by the end, because I feel like they were just as culpable when they were going to marry her off when she was still a child. I feel like she should have just run away with her friend from Paris.

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

I agree with your last point to some extent, but Max even addresses how gross he was to want to marry her when she had the baby brain. He was also respectful to her when she wanted to have sex and knew it was wrong to give into her desires. He was a very flawed man and the movie acknowledged that, but was still the best man for her compared to the other men in her life. For Godwin, I believe he also matured by the end of the film to see her as a person and a daughter that can make her won decisions. He still made a new Bella (Felicity) so he was still monstrous but grew to become a loving father that wanted to walk his daughter down the aisle. I believe at the end, both men matured enough and realized how wrong they had been in treating her as they did before. Bella maturing forced them to mature which is a part of the film not many people recognized.

@Yammenkow

4 ай бұрын

@@MistaZULE It's also not 100% clear if Bella and Max are still in a romantic relationship at the very end. I think most of us assumed it, but it's not actually confirmed. And I don't think it matters. Bella has found a life that works for her surrounded by the people she has chosen to be around and the exact nature of those relationships is less important than the overall message of finding one's place and one's people.

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@Yammenkowexactly my thoughts as well about the end of the film. I really loved the subtle touch that showed she was in control with her two (supposed) lovers sitting with her while she read in the sun. She found her place in the world and that I believe was the triumphant feminism people praised the film for.

I hope that that Emma Stone and Mark Ruffalo win Oscars for their performances. There were a few walk outs at my screening, I don't think that people anticipated just how many sex scenes there were in this film. At least there were intimacy coordinators on set, to help the actors to feel comfortable.

@airplanes_aren.t_real

6 ай бұрын

What is it with movies lately and having so many sex scenes?

@FruityHachi

5 ай бұрын

@@airplanes_aren.t_real people too lazy to watch actual p0rn sites, so they want the convenience of having it in every movie

@TheMikenanners

3 ай бұрын

@@airplanes_aren.t_realNonsense

thought i was taking crazy pills until i came across this review lol i hated this movie so much, idc how great the technical aspects are, they're just icing on a shit cake to me

I disagree with your take on Godwin and Max characters. To me, it never felt like a male gaze thing, because you understand what kind of person Godwin is. He was always treated as an experiment by his father. He tells the story of how his father put nails in his fingers, to see if bones stopped growing. Since he was young he was tricked to believe that it was necessary to continue to do it, in the name of science. It is very dark and twisted, but I understand why a character like him would do it. They keeped Bella locked inside the house, but even to a certain extend, can you really blame them? In that moment, she had the brain of a toddler and behave very erratic. Max was against the idea of Bella leaving with Mark Ruffalo characters and even though he is a very flawed character, you can tell he was doing it to protect her. And the end it was more about just letting Bella go, and let her figure out the world on her own.

I’m convinced the people that say this is the best movie they’ve watched have not watched a lot of movies or at least good ones.

yes when you learn it’s a baby toddler, the movie is gratuitous child porn? all of the men take advantage of her. it’s really a sign of the times. kind of warhol and woody allen creepy!🤓

Interesting conversation!

Honestly my girlfriend and I loved it... Maybe strange but we love everything Yorgos Lanthimos has put out so far, and love how he shows humans as animals more than anything. The path to liberation is not possible because we are chained by our carnal desires and the necessities of sustenance and sex.

Poor things is amazing. However it is true that it has baited so many people that misunderstood the story. I saw a comment the other day which was like 'emma stone is so cute in this film' like shes a child...

I can't understand how someone sees those sexual scenes as sexually liberating, they're literally disturbing and uncomfortable.

And cartoonishly villianous. Yes, all of that.

This was the worst movie I saw last year. I wish I had the sense to walk out.

I find it funny how Jake liked The Lobster but hated Poor Things when i have the complete opposite opinion. I cannot stand The Lobster whatsoever. I feel like Yorgos Lanthimos besides The Favourite has struggled to make his interesting concepts really come to life but with Poor Things, i think he really nailed it this time.

@TheMikenanners

6 ай бұрын

I liked most of the first half of the lobster I guess lol. Lanthimos really needs another writer involved or just ends up coming off overly indulgent and detached in a way that doesn’t quite work for me.

@misa18amaneyt

6 ай бұрын

If it's based off a novel how much of that is his concepts?

@EzioMonty117

6 ай бұрын

@@misa18amaneyt I see your point but he did take quite a bit of creative liberty with the novel. Enough to the point where if you hadn't already done your research, you wouldn't have guessed that the film was adapted.

@misa18amaneyt

6 ай бұрын

@@EzioMonty117 Fair enough and no offence meant

Have you seen Dogtooth? One of Lanthimos' earliest works, and also prettty disturbing.

The legend misses

Male gazey is EXACTLY what this movie is.

“The Creation of Patriarchy” by Gerda Lerner would be a good book to read before reviewing this film. It’s incredibly insightful and academic in its approach. Lots of hugely eye opening info. Watching this film after consuming info from that book takes away all excuses for the film’s horrible elements and presentation of the story. It destroys the suspension of disbelief crafted by internalized misogyny which leads some to reframe it based on its artistic direction or value. A slap in the face of reality but it hurts so, so good. Leaves you feeling empowered in a way this film could only dream of.

I think Lanthimos is interested in the combination of humour, the feeling of a woman becoming empowered and liberated from men who seek to control her and the discomfort of seeing a child consent to things that she is mentally unfit to consent to and may regret later. That combination of feelings is challenging and is typical of Lanthimos in my opinion.

Another I issue I have with this film is that it just beats you over the head with soooo many long sex scenes. I'm not sure they needed like 40 solid minutes of actual sex scenes. Seemed like they just wanted to have a lot of naked Emma Stone in it.

Thank you. I agree with ALL JAKE said & Nadia is reading into a weak script and making excuses for a badly crafted & messy film. Of all the hyped up films by great Directors, I thought this would be unique and went wanting to love it too & see it in a theater hoping that this would be Yorgis upping his game after liking his weird LOBSTER film. I left so let down feeling like The Poor Thing myself! I view the mainstream praise as a reflection of our times where superficial has become the norm if it has enough surface glitter and marketed ferociously. You can't parse out sections This film FAILS at cleverly unorthodoxy because it ends up being totally NONSENSICAL simply because it IS dealing with A LOT of different issues which NONE are REALLY HANDLED very well. At times her actions are CONTRADICTORY & hypocritical with a Story that is CONVOLUTED while exploring many things but RESOLVING not one of them. Much of the scenes are ARBITRARY and do little to progress the narrative! Her FRANKENHOOKER phase was a bit jolting but mostly filled with IRONY based her newfound female empowerment. Concepts of misogyny, pedophilia, prostitution, abuse only serve to SHOCK rather than reveal any true empathy or heroic sentiment. For all the men bashing she then freely allows a woman, the Madame Dwarf, to use & abuse her. Often I was just confused to whether or not to laugh at times. Any entertaining bits still just felt irrelevant to the narrative. Also I wasn't blown away my Emma's portrayal. The innocent nature of her character needed to have more wide-eyed charm & sweetness rather than primarily cold, cruel and bluntly reactionary. Nevertheless the IMAGERY is stimulating to watch but the STORY just gets SLOW around 3/4 the way through. After all the controversial SEX, when it should become full of intrigue, conflict resolution or drama it stalls when her new found "ENLIGHTENMENT" BOAT TOUR tries to get Political, to no successful conclusion except to END with a GOAT SACRIFICE & sick operation to show REVENGE towards her estranged Father, a stranger to us & her the entire film only to end with a, so far, non-romantic relationship with a FEEBLE wannabe Frankenstein Scientist Husband, a inconsequential gay lover & a mutated pet! And who, why or what is that mutant girl introduced? WTF!!! I LEFT UNINSPIRED, unsympathetic, irritated over the whole experience! > Please GO WATCH any TERRY GILLIAM film * or PIERRE JUENET's "Amelie" or 'City of Lost Children" (in French) or even DEL TORO'S "The Shape of Water" to experience truly strange, VISIONARY, eclectic, quirky, enriched, DENSE and amazingly complex cohesive FAIRYTALE STORYTELLING. Heck you can even rewatch the classic "The WIZARD of OZ" to experience a film of this style, done EXCELLENTLY!

I had to stop watching soon after I learned Bella had the brain of an infant. So so disturbing and disgusting and typical Hollyweird

In my opinion all of it is meant to be a bit disturbing and you're not supposed to take it too literally. I think it is, like you said, mostly meant to be a satire on societal expectations and how men and women form relations with each other. It's meant to be shocking and weird to put into perspective how weird and immoral a lot of society is in real life. I don't think it was meant to be sexually liberating in that way. I thought it was really funny and creative in every way. Actually very bold in a way that you don't see many films of this size. I personally don't feel like the sexual stuff was male-gazey at all. None of it was filmed in a very arrousing or sexy way at all, more so weird and offputting to accompany how weird the thing was that was happening. I am a man though so take that with a grain of salt. Either way I still loved it and it's probably my favorite of 2023! I still loved hearing your opinions and I do get your criticisms, especially about her staying with godwin and the fiance in the end.

I didn't love the movie, but you're taking the baby brain thing far too literally. The rules of this world work differently than our world. She is not literally acting like a child except in some very surface level ways, and by the time she reaches Paris, she is clearly an adult intellectual. The baby brain in this fantasy world is just meant as a metaphor for going from a naive and simple outlook on things to a gradually more complex and nuanced understanding. The reason where the movie fails for me is that the message is on the nose and isn't anything groundbreaking, and it starts spinning its wheels turning the end and getting repetitive. Also, the quippy comedy style is basic.

My favorites 🎉

I agree with a lot of the criticisms of the movie, though I feel like it's entertaining to watch and the visuals are dazzling. It's like cocomelon for me.

Sex in fun of children is a no no

@Theologica_

3 ай бұрын

That scene was cut out of American screenings. I feel like if it was in there - the general opinion would be different.

11:26 imo if your best defense of something is "its satire" when half the audience thinks they are playing it straight then it's no defense at all

This is the kind of weird-for-the-sake-of-weird movie that Hollywood loves to shower with praise and awards. It inadvertently illustrates how self-contradictory feminism's "have your cake and eat it, too" approach really is, wherein when it can't reconcile these contradictions, it simply blames "the patriarchy". A movie about female sexual liberation where a woman who is mentally a young child spends half of the runtime as a sex worker is one such contradiction.

The visual artifice felt like a shallow way of expressing the need to parse through the misinformation of society. I love colours but the schemes here are lurid. I genuinely believe that the movie has no awareness of its themes outside of "feed your curiosity" but the extent of their exploration was just a series of bad jokes. The part that bothered me the most was definitely the portrayal of sex work; it's not a topic that warrants flippant comedic tangents. The ending was particularly repugnant. Male fantasy masquerading as revolution. Bella settles for the status quo and forgives Godwin for his transgressions against female bodies and minds. Such a cop-out. Easily my biggest disappointment of 2023. I rarely say this but I hated Poor Things.

Thank heavens! A bit of validation... Authorial intent is one thing. How well its executed is completely another discussion. Is this a tragic tale of abuse or dark humored saga of empowerment? Make up your minds the movie makers!

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

He chose to let us decide. If you want an author to hold your hand and tell you what the film is about then watch another director than Lanthimos. His whole filmography is showing the bits of society we don't want to look at and asking the audience to interpret what they want.

@mapletree3434

4 ай бұрын

@MistaZULE "Holding hand" means there's a point, but it's not preachy. Ok, if it's completely nihilistic and he deliberately has no point at all, I'm on board with you. Nihilistic was the vibe I got from Favorite, Deer, Lobster... If this is it, then all praise for empowered Bella is .,well...pointless. The same goes for the "oppression tale" interpretation. Sooo, his movies are powerful and traumatizing, but there's no point. That's my take, then. I wouldn'tsay Ihate his movies. For me, I suppose, it’s a matter of my mood. I have to be in a really good mood to endure them 🙂

@MistaZULE

4 ай бұрын

@@mapletree3434that's a completely fair interpretation for you, and his other films definitely have an air of nihilism throughout (especially Deer, that movie psychologically tortured me), but Poor Things is Lanthimos' most happy and joyous film and is decidedly not nihilistic. There is a bit of nihilism where Bella conducts the brain swap on the General showing that the cycle of abuse continues generation to generation, but that is it. The shot at the end where Bella "wins" is cathartic and made me feel joyous for Bella. She suffered the gauntlet of controlling men and now the only one left supports her and loves her for who she is, not what he wants her to be. It was a very happy ending and by far the most happy for Lanthimos' work.

fuck I get some of your points im coming to like this movie less and less over time it was one of my favourites from what i've been seeing this year :(

Γιώργος Λάνθιμος/μίσος ταξικό!

Really wanted to like this (and I did like many aspects of the film) but for me it deffinitely missed the mark. I can even get over the infant brain and taking advantage of her context as that can be seen as more symbolic, but the sex scenes just take up too much screen time whilst the point could have been made with way less. I really liked the premise and scenes like the one where she sees poverty and gives the money away (being naive and giving it to the sailors) and scenes like that, the film should have focused more on her actually navigating the world and social structures and her brain/body disconnect. I dont even mind the brothel although it was portrayed very one dimentionally and I was expecting way more from that and way darker stuff. Instead we got too much sex (and absolutely dont mind some or even many being there but at some point its just TOO many. And this must have been done on purpose as its obvious how impactful such scenes would be and would take away the focus from other things.

Children learn with their mouths first and then the rest of the body and just after that intellect comes to play aboard. So although I felt very uncomfortable with the sex scenes i hope they meant that: kids learn with their bodies . It is just that not having fully sexually developed bodies they don’t go that route … She is exploited but she learns from men and women she comes into contact with . So she doesn’t have moral or ethical issues as she didn’t have time to develop them. We cannot see sex as liberating . It is just a learning curve .

I feel like the fantastical premise is sufficiently handwave-y for the awful "age" implications of the film. The purpose of a toddler brain experiencing the adult things in the film is to deconstruct it all (sex, social classes, racism, institutions) from the POV of a guileless, unbiased observer. She feels more like an alien than a child a lot of the time, and it usually works for the humor that they're going for. I understand it making people uncomfortable, but with my dude-privilege it was easy to suspend disbelief. I feel like the movie still falls apart in the end (when she faces *real* adversity for the first time in the form of a powerful man who repeatedly threatens to murder her, and she conquers it just as easily as everything that came before), and I, too, am at a loss as to what the director really "meant" by any of it. It's a fantasy telling of women's liberation I guess, in that literally nothing can keep her down. And perhaps her ascendance to God-hood is meant to feel menacing, now that she's capable of performing her own Mengelian experiments on people who cross her. But it's wishy-washy on drawing meaningful conclusions about our own society, where women can't girlboss their way out of every abusive situation they encounter. Maybe that's why people gravitate towards individual scenes as empowering or thought provoking rather than the film as a whole.

I didn't find it to be that disturbing 🤔 Maybe because the whole thing is put into a fantastical context, so it's easy to just go along with this world's rules... HAVING SAID THAT, I do agree w/ Jake when he says that much of the film's faults were due to its repetitive nature, the jokes and insights are always the same thing over and over and over, culminating in the final shot, which seems like it's supposed to be such a triumph, but we have already seen that same point being made countless times through the previous two hours or so...

Hard disagree with everything you are saying, but I do respect a different review. I will say I don't think having disturbing understones has to be contradictory with the themes of the movies. Specially when one of the aspects the movies explore (and it's say in the movie) is the theme of identity: Emma Stone is not the baby, nor is his mother, but someone complety new, which makes the journey of liberations that everyone is talking about makes sense. If you just think the movie in "yeah, it's a about a baby" of course it' doesn't make sense. But again, interesting video and I appreciate you two going out of his way to read and understand other people's point of view, even if you don't agree with most people on this.

" She touched my hairy business!" Easily the most hilarious dialogue and execution! 😂

I think this movie proves how dense and boring society has become in entertainment. Sex and nudity is the oldest entertainment in society. Why beat that thousand year old dead horse?

yes! it's EXTREMELY male-gazey

I think becomes completely unacceptable if you dont ignore its premisse , she is literally a child being sexually abused by several man and a women thorough the whole movie , and even if you choose to ignore it the movie immediately stops making sense and all of Bella's choices and behaviours become completely stupid and unjustified . And the worst thing is the movie doesnt even portray the sexual abuse and literall prostitution of a minor as a bad thing , it literally portrays it as Healthy experiences of sexual discovery , the ONLY thing portrayed as bad in the movie is Mark Rufallo kidnapping her and obsessing over her . But mostly that he gets angry that a person ( that he doenst know its a literal child ) he is romanticly interested in has sex with random people on the street out of anywhere , which a completely normal reaction to that ( not the kidnapping and controlling thing),the only message that made sense in the movie is the discussion with the nihilistic guy , beyond that everything is disturbing and contradictory .

I went through the movie as if it was a comedy, in this respect it, similarly to the Clockwork Orange, is a fun experience. I really don’t think that you should take a lot of what is happening seriously, the whole journey is Bella’s character development-or maybe coming of age-journey, and you gotta go with it.

Ngl I've been really hating the random unnecessary sex scenes in movies lately, napoleon and (to a much lesser degree) Oppenheimer is making me want to wait until it's on tv(or more likely on pirate site)

@TheMikenanners

6 ай бұрын

None of the nudity in Oppenheimer is random or unnecessary imo, and otherwise I’m really perplexed by this online trend of younger people not being able to cope with any kind of sexuality on screen. To say it’s never necessary to a movie’s plot or to communicate something important about a world or its characters just couldn’t be further from the truth - which I’m not saying you’re saying specifically, just referring to the weird call to arms some people have attempted to have. To me it depends on the film and what it’s going for - there shouldn’t be this attempt at imposing a blanket, puritanical rule about sex scenes in general; I don’t get that at all and it’s super backwards and conservative lol.

@airplanes_aren.t_real

6 ай бұрын

​@@TheMikenannersas I've clarified (to a much lesser degree) but you could cut the first one and lose pretty much nothing except the "I've becum death, destroyer of worlds" speech I mean it in a much broader sense, lately I've been watching way more kids media because it honestly feels like the only place where I don't need to wonder if I'm going to get fleshbanged in the middle of the theater It's also annoying how they always seem to be in this liminal space where they aren't hot enough to be enjoyable but also not prevalent enough to be necessary Edit to your edit: I think that it's because a lot of teens are getting really sick of going with their parents and having to awkwardly sit in the theater watching a completely unnecessary sex scene that could have been easily replaced with a fade to black I get that it's anecdotal but mid way through watching napoleon I was scared that every scene change would go to a sex scene and relieved we didn't have to watch Joakim fuck a 15/18 year old

@Emelia39

6 ай бұрын

The thing with Oppenheimer though is that Jean Tatlock was a real person who met a tragic end and I think it was pretty insensitive to have her not have a personality besides just being naked all the time. It’s especially bad in the context that Jean struggled a great deal with her sexuality (she often wrote about how she thought she was gay), and subjected herself to psychological methods around it that worsened her depression. Idk id be pretty mortified if a family member of mine who’d killed themselves (or was possibly murdered) was portrayed as a sex symbol the entire time. Edit to add: that scene where they’re screwing while reading “now I have become death” made me laugh out loud. It felt like parody.

@Farfaramir

6 ай бұрын

I don't think this, nor Napoleon, nor Oppenheimer, have random "unnecesary" sex scenes. How is a movie where the central theme is about sex can have "random sex scenes"? Napoleon have it's problem, but is clear that part of the Napoleon characterizacion is about the relation with his wife, so the sex aspect is important. And @TheMikehanners explained very well Oppenheimer. It's not like there can't be movie where sex scenes are just there for not reason at all, but I don't see a trend in movies where this is happening. If anything, I see that most movies are being too scared of including sex scenes, when they can be use as part of the plot of themes of the movies, of just to explore the characters.

@breesybird9207

6 ай бұрын

People are such babies about sex in movies now.

sex is obviously a huge part of this movie, but I didn't find this to be a feminist. Its about her relearning herself and she could be developing fast. but I didn't find this movie gross, she's discovering herself. as far as the prostitution, she did decide and take action.

It's strange to see two people who I normally respect the opinions of completely miss the (in my opinion) point of the film. To get hung up on her "age" or the question of pregnancy or period while ignoring the fact it is a fairy tale filled with satirical takes on male archetypes is beyond me. The whole movie tells you from the first scene that it is not a standard movie and has to be viewed as an exploration of Bella as a subjective character and not a "normal" woman. The whole movies is subjective and the film language constantly tells you that. It's strange to see the point missed so thoroughly and to get hung up on the sex? It's not even about sex in so much as Bella's liberation from the men who view her as an object.

@Theologica_

3 ай бұрын

There simply comes a point where the suspension of what you’re supposed to take as fiction becomes to much. I can abide by a film with such a concept. The film is exploitative of the very concept of exploitation.

@MistaZULE

3 ай бұрын

@@Theologica_ "the film is exploitative of the very concept of exploitation" That's certainly a take. You don't like the film and that's fine, but I find this opinion to be completely out of step with the intention of the film. The film is meant to show the liberation of a woman from the men controlling her. How can a film show this without showing the exploitation she suffers from the men controlling her? It's like criticizing a war film for being violent.

IMO It is a disturbing film, and purposely so, yet still great. I think the list of bugs given in the review are actually intentional features.

Has polite society (and real world logic) destroyed you? I don't think the feminist liberation lens is a good one for this film (though it's understandable that people go for that, Poor Things even has some parallels with Barbie). Even if Bella's journey has some female specificity, I was more drawn to the universal appeal of a developing mind getting to figure things out, unburdened by prior conditioning. While I agree that Bella's story is lacking when it comes to any real negative consequences (even the secret final antagonist ends up easily dealt with), I didn't find myself displeased with that - maybe because I can do without further education on harsh reality, and I just wanted to see that youthful perspective again, without shame, fear, or shackles, only curiosity. But it does end up being a fairy tale, and I suppose that will be too farcical for some. It moved me that the most traumatic experience Bella has throughout her journey is that human misery and abject poverty exist in the world. To be clear, I was not moved by her despair, I was moved by my indifference to that sight. When did I lose that moral clarity, I wonder? I also really liked the aspect of generational violence, with the outwardly monstrous Godwyn deviating just enough from his own father's legacy of abuse to become... an actually pretty loving parental figure, even if he got there in a twisted way (the only way he knew). And Bella herself making the choice to know and let go of her past self (although I am skeptical that Alfie is being truthful about Victoria's cruelty). On that topic, I completely disagree about your view that all men in Bella's life want to entrap her, and I think that is pretty ironic considering your perspective that she is a child (something I don't entirely agree with - she is neither child, nor adult, because this is a sci fi fairy tale). Clearly then, if she is a child as you say, then she needs protection. Is that not what Godwyn is trying to provide to her? Why does he hastily urge to leave the countryside with Bella and Max when he sees people approaching? He knows (or suspects) Victoria's past is catching up. If he's trying to entrap her, why does he let her go when she simply asks for it? I found Godwyn's reasoning for the resurrection of Bella hilarious, twistedly logical... and entirely self-serving. But he did eventually care for her, even nurturing her desire to emulate God's work ("just the dead ones!"). Yes, it is absolutely twisted. I love it! Fully on Nadia's side here when it comes to the visual aspects, costumes and set design! To make my bias clear, I will add that I was raised in and around Lisbon and to see that fantastical, colorful, retro-futuristic, both familiar and alien version of Lisbon was truly wondrous to me. It brings me joy to think back on my younger days, getting lost in the piss stained alleys of the city, stuffing myself with pastéis de nata and furiously jumping Mark Ruffalo...

Agreed. 4/10

If you were disturbed by the film, you missed all of Yorgos' directorial intricacies; this film is hilarious. I was lucky enough to see it with an audience that thought it was as funny as I did, and I feel this is what Yorgos intended. It is very philosophical and at times hard to watch, but for a majority of the film we are supposed to be having a good time like Bella is. Complain about the "baby in a woman's body" all you want, this film is a work of art and has incredible themes to think about.

This is the most hopeful and lovely film in 2023, literally, I mean it.

Two points *SPOILERS* One minor one is I think they mention that she had her uterus removed. But my main point is that she mostly resembles an adult with the mental capacity of a child. Persons like that exist in reality, aren’t they sexual? Are there barriers on how they explore their sexuality because of their limitation? Denying that seems ableist

@andrewdaniel9337

6 ай бұрын

I think that’s different than a man literally violating a woman’s body and adding her baby’s brain in her and then lying about it for most of the film to her. Emma Stone’s character had the mental capacity of a child because she WAS a child. I think that’s the point. She eventually could “grow up” to make her decisions as an adult but it’s clear that she was exploited as a baby/child.

@mintyhippo8125

5 ай бұрын

Being disabled and having sexual relationships is different than being exploited, too.

I fucking loved this movie. It’s like a better, less commodified and more mature version of Barbie. It’s one of the best theatre experiences I’ve had in a while. The audience was erupting with laughter. They could’ve downplayed the male gaze-yness of the sex scenes I agree

A lot of the points in this video and in the comments are taking the “depiction = approval” point to the fucking extreme lol. L take I’m sorry.

Really don't understand taking this so literally and moralizing over a story that tries so hard to give this exaggerated, fantastical and warped view of things.

@petalchild

6 ай бұрын

Because it's still based in the real world in the sense that societal issues still exist

@mintyhippo8125

5 ай бұрын

Things can still be disturbing even if they are exaggerated on purpose

Completely disagree that she is behaving like a toddler when she is having sex. A teenager sure and she clearly doesn't understand sex when she starts having it....just like most teenagers.

@petalchild

6 ай бұрын

Yeah and most teenagers don't start having sex with middle aged men

I think you did not understand the film

This girl has no taste