Keke is NOT lacking . They have very different careers by design. Zendaya broke into fashion intentionally. Keke broke into Broadway intentionally. They clearly do projects that resonate with them and that’s a privilege as a young actor. They don’t just take ANY role.

@OhThisIsNette

2 жыл бұрын

Bingo

To me saying that NOPE is Keke’s break out role is delegitimizing all the success and visibility she’s gotten from black audiences. This lady has an Emmy! Black people been loving Keke. I’m really happy that she’s getting a lot more visibility but to me this is not her break out role

@fatterbatter

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I said

@TheFearlessBabe

2 жыл бұрын

Black and White people

@darkwriter_xx94

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I remember the year Akeelah and the Bee came out. Everyone and their momma took their kids to see that movie several times. No other reason I knew how to spell prestidigitation and pulchritude at such a young age 😂😂

@melarosa12

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkwriter_xx94 lol 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@Stopthisrightnow560

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not the most across the board on black culture but even my white arse had seen Keke before Nope.

Here’s my thing. When we talk about main stream and black people, I think we often think that means that we want white people to notice us. Cuz at the end of the day, keke Palmer was on Disney and Nickelodeon at the same time, I grew up with her. Keke was in several movies that defines my childhood. So I’m confuse when we say keke isn’t mainstream.

@Jay-pj5tg

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!! One way I pointed it out was that theres a reason why she was interviewing at the met gala and not a guest... I feel like thats kind of a symbol of her being juuust on the periphery

@kaylad1669

2 жыл бұрын

Yes... unfortunately, mainstream = whyte acceptnace 😬 to most! Otherwise this conversation would have never even came up!

@ctruth6185

2 жыл бұрын

Zendaya appeals to a larger global audience while Keke appeals to a predominantly domestic U.S audience. It has nothing to do solely with colorism. Zendaya is not in black spaces taking black roles. Its got more to do with market segmentation. If you land jobs in the big budget vehicles which have global distribution you gain a worldwide audience. Its also about the kind of roles actresses choose. They are young & have to grow. It seems a lot of bw are jealous of Zendaya who has found success in the bigger markets. May God bless both these talented actresses. Zendaya & Keke are both classy in the way they're handling this matter.. Hollywood is also about talent, connections & opportunity. I'm tired of the colorism excuse. BM are successful throughout Holllywood. But many of them are also OLD. Where are the FRESH faces of young black actors? Nonexistent. Keke Palmer is very successful in the U.S market especially, for a black actress under 30 yrs.old. Kekie's not global. Lupita N'yongo is the only dark actress under 40 yrs. old who has broken through appealing to larger global markets. The most successful black actresses are OLD. Viola Davis, Viveca Fox, Gabby Union, Queen Lafifah, Whoopie Goldberg, Cynthis Erivo, Kerry Washington, Oprah, Halle Berry even, Taraji Henson is old. Truth is its time for FRESH talent younger black actresses & black actors under 30 & 40 yrs. old are needed. Some Bw are using "colorism" as an excuse to hate on Zendaya. Keke doesn't see it that way so you have to respect her POV. Acting is complex its about, who you know. Its also a lot of luck involved too. Its about landing the right project at the right time. The old folks take the best roles. Many of these old women aren't even box office anymore. Black Hollywood needs a youth quake!

@kaylad1669

2 жыл бұрын

@@ctruth6185 black women support Zendaya tho lol they have nothing to be jealous of bc she’s not even black anyway, she’s biracial.. and even tho she’s working in predominantly white spaces, that doesn’t mean colorism doesn’t exist in Hollywood. I don’t think it applies here in this specific scenario, but anti-blackness is definitely the standard in Hollywood and always has been as well as blatant racism 🌚

@melodrama5701

2 жыл бұрын

@@ctruth6185 People like you are the reason why twitter is even having this argument. You don't have to outright deny colorism. Sure there are a lot of other factors but colorism definitely plays a part. Thats like someone saying racism has nothing to do with why native americans don't have much representation in hollywood. And males definitely deal with colorism too. When a role is about a black man who's a scary thug or something else ominous who do they cast? And because that's most of the roles hollywood likes for black men, lighter men are rarely seen because they're assumed to be "softer" and less intimidating.

I also think Zendaya is playing roles that would otherwise have been a white girl. Euphoria and Spider-man were definitely written for a white girl. Having mixed or racially ambiguous cast was an afterthought imo. She is able to do that which a black actress wouldn’t be able to.

@icefairy514

2 жыл бұрын

I agree..this makes the most sense.

@CASSIOPEIAMASHUPS

2 жыл бұрын

Euphoria was actually written for a white MAN apparently. Rue was a white guy at first

@lilyrose5410

2 жыл бұрын

actually euphoria is based on sam levinson the writer, who’s a white man and zendaya was cast so she’s biracial

@CASSIOPEIAMASHUPS

2 жыл бұрын

@@lilyrose5410 I know that but the role of Rue was initially written as a white boy before Zendaya was cast. I’ve heard that numerous times. The character’s name wasn’t even Rue.

@thewireboy100

2 жыл бұрын

Well Mary Jane Watson in the comics is a big titty redhead white woman. Christiana Hendricks ten years ago would have been a better choice

I'm with Keke. It's also VERY draining having these conversations as a dark skinned black woman. Imagine going to interviews and just talking about the art you create?

@apatouros7572

2 жыл бұрын

and listing your resume at every interview... like, everybody knows this is Keke Palmer - she's been around FOREVER!

@WhoCares3001

2 жыл бұрын

It's weird because Keke has brought the topic up herself in the past. If she didn't want to take part in this particular she was better of staying silent because all she did was bring more press to it.

@apatouros7572

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhoCares3001 yeah, but this is her damn moment! she doesn't want to be the object of this conversation, and I get that.

@SusieCarmichaelsSister

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhoCares3001 maybe she’s evolved into someone who is over talking about it for now.

@WhoCares3001

2 жыл бұрын

@@apatouros7572 Again, KEKE literally chimed in and made it part of her moment by engaging. Because of her mainstream press is citing the tweet and covering the subject. It's no longer just a random twitter thread. *SHE MADE IT A NEWS STORY*

Keke has so much range as an actress. Been riding with her since Akeelah and the Bee. I loved her in NOPE. She was also a mess in scream queens. Sis is too talented.

@kidawesomeness123

2 жыл бұрын

zayday williams was the most sane character in scream queens iktr 💀

@MsLiberianLady

2 жыл бұрын

I loved that show

@kaylad1669

2 жыл бұрын

I loved her in Scream Queens! 😅😍❤️

@Untappedclumpy123

2 жыл бұрын

Scream queens

@YaLittleFriend

2 жыл бұрын

Omg she gave me chills in NOPE! Her bond with OJ and the ending Keke is it!

Just a reminder as a black French person : you say white/black people but mainstream is not only being famous by white Americans standards, it's also being known across the world, not just the US. And I can tell you that in France, everybody knows Zendaya, few people know Keke Palmer and a lot will see her for the first time in Nope, black or white. So I get it when I see black American saying that for them she's mainstream but then their definition of mainstream is very different from mine..

@angeldelmoroable

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what i thought as an Italian, mainstream to me means globally, where English isn't the main language, so think most of Europe. If someone went around non english speaking places all throughout Europe to ask who Keke is, few will know who she is. This isn't about taking away from Keke's success, but to say that she SHOULD have had a more similar path to Zendaya, if not for Colorism, which is the reason why she hasn't even been given the same opportunities as Zendaya.

@laprincesse9312

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, mainstream for me as a black person from europe as well means known across countries. Beyoncé is mainstream because people outside of America’s know who Beyoncé is

@bt2598

2 жыл бұрын

Would have been good to frame what mainstream actually means? Based on the conversations so folks this it’s being known by a international audience, others seem to imply it’s being known/allowed into white American spaces, others by net worth

@wildflowersun8795

2 жыл бұрын

I will say this to all of the foreign ppl. Here is, they started out very similarly, kid shows & for Keke a major movie role in youth (Akeela & the bee, great film,FYI). So, this is more about opportunities avail. to ppl. of color & how, colorism after teen, when they have comparative backgrounds...& what happens. I read from FRA & Mainstream... Understood, but that is the point. Who, gets to make the Jump to Worldwide Mainstream Vs. State (USA). I have a lot of compassion for POV of FRA because it's in such denial of racial, cultural & religious respect. I've dated 2 white FRA & I cannot, Lol.. They think there isn't a race problem, because, they don't have that on applications; like non-FRA names don't make a difference. Please. My "FRA" Beau, told me... With your color (I'm light) & My features,our kids would be.. WTF! Yes. Another... USA has a race... FRA, doesn't. So, Red Flag, White FRA telling me a POC, how it is for POC??? Nah!!! Grew up with white dad, so, why I gave him grace to hang himself & he did! Nope. I'm no Zendaya. I'm Too Dark even w/ light skin/cafe au late (not "light enough" To Pass & " True, Mix grade hair, Lol... Ya know!) Mother reminded me of my "bad" hair, yup, colorism from my mother POC, Lol... Had to learn to love my Mix grade of hair. FYI, She has "Good" hair. POC, Know. My point is Racism, Colorism is still a Thang, and ya can't, ignore it away, like ppl.want (White & POC) How do ya think, I felt when a person (Beau) I thought cared about me pointed out subconsciously his truth. This is why, Racism is Not 1 dimensional! It's So, much deeper. Sad, for humanity! Biological reasons are in place for All physical features,Duh!!! Not, for "Looks". But, They don't that emphasize that in Bio-class, Why, Racism??? I'm proud that I was able to reflect on my life/Dad & Know, Good ppl. In All Races & Bad, Period! Does not reflect all! But, I won't date, Another White FRA. Why, too ingrained for me to waste time. Time is precious!!!!

@Emmany97

2 жыл бұрын

@@wildflowersun8795 As someone who's lived outside the US, Akeela and the Bee is probably the only movie I've seen of Keke. Didn't know who she was until this movie.

I don't like the fact that people feel the need to compare them. I'm not denying that colorism in Hollywood is a major problem, especially when it reflects how society works, it's merely a reflection. But comparing both 'successes' exposes the power dynamics and the optics are not in our favor.

@keandrajanelle6331

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly Erya. I agree with you. The comparison is just not needed.

@fortunamajor7239

2 жыл бұрын

@@keandrajanelle6331 exactly! i saw people on other sites saying 'well the comparison wasn't negative, it was in Keke's favor so why was she mad?' it's bc not every public figure likes seeing strangers' thinkpieces about them all the time. the movie JUST came out, people need to let her have her moment lmao!

@Wanjiro81

2 жыл бұрын

I completely agree. This whole conversation was unnecessary to me.

@Vvvxxloxe

2 жыл бұрын

@@Wanjiro81 not it's the exact conversation t be having. A girl size 1 girl with pale skin, type 1-2 hair n fitting Eurocentric beauty standards is obviously gonna be hyped up ..... mediocre or not. She could wear a sack but people would call it style coz of her body which is ideal in most world's. Why are people so shocked she gets more attention than a size 5 bw with African features 4c hair..

@Wanjiro81

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vvvxxloxe I’m well aware of how colorism works. I’m also well aware that Ke-Ke is having a big moment right now and I would personally rather focus on that. This conversation is, to me, taking away from her moment.

It takes nothing away from Zendaya’s talent that colorism and her beauty were factors that we can’t ignore.

@amateurastronomer9752

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. Or from KeKe’s for that matter.

@Vvvxxloxe

2 жыл бұрын

Duh!!!! Zendaya fits the beauty standards.. She will most likely be considered fashionable either way..I don't find her looks that epic but if your a size 1 no one cares. Eg Kendall Jenner. Even if keke was hitting every runway she would never get the same recognition coz she doesn't for the beauty standards. Zendaya's success is attributed to her looks, body...she is literally thinspo for white women on Tumblr....the fact that she was able to remain relevant for yrs without any roles tells you everything. Her acting is good but not the best in gen z...she just gets the spotlight anyway. . She is talented yes but would never get the same praise if she did not conform

@julianajaxson

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vvvxxloxe zendaya also had to get a nose job to fit in.... unknown facts!

@Misaamanenoir

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vvvxxloxe Keke is beautiful and is part of the beauty standard . Like just because colorism effects doesn’t mean she isn’t considered beautiful 😐

@leahyorke3439

2 жыл бұрын

@@Vvvxxloxekeke palmer is more attractive facially, take away zendayas makeup she looks like your average light skin

I loved Keke Palmer in scream queens. She’s a really good comedic actor.

@melbuck194

2 жыл бұрын

You're the first person that I've seen bring up scream queens besides me. She was a mess in that show! She has a lot of range.

@lilyrose5410

2 жыл бұрын

i love scream queens

@wrldprincess

2 жыл бұрын

!!!! Scream queens is a rewatch every Halloween and it’s Keke who brings me back

@elleMerci_bey

2 жыл бұрын

She is great in tv; Star and Insecure especially.

@jusletursoulglobaby

2 жыл бұрын

girl her and Niecy Nash... or Denise Hemphill Jones STOLE that series 😆😆😆😆 stole it!

Comparison is a thief of joy! Keke was going around doing her damn thing accomplishing greatness and playing great roles. She thinks she's that girl and then someone wants to compare her, diminish her star and stop her from celebrating her moment. If that's not a "thief of joy" I don't know what is. Keke's last big role before Nope is Buzz Lightyear which released a month ago. Keke and Zendaya are two very different people going in two different directions in Hollywood. They can't even audition for the same roles because of their vast differences. To me and my family Keke is "that girl" and she has never been a little known actress but a superstar!

@patriciazandilencube4597

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for those words. I'll keep 'thief of joy'in my mind for those times when I want to compare myself to anyone 😉

There's a breakfast club interview where Keke talks about how for a long time many magazines never placed her as their cover girl. Essence was the one to celebrate her in their cover page. Keke acknowledged that even with all her achievements and accolades she was not receiving the "mainstream" recognition that she is arguably due. So based on those comments it is clear that she is aware of the forces at work to marginalize black women as Kimberly pointed out. So while Keke is reasonably not wanting to center colorism in the discussion at this point in time, it's clear that she isn't oblivious to the impact it has on her career and careers of all black womxn in the the industry.

KeKe was right. As an actor of any race or gender she is a rarity PERIOD to have so many credits to her name. Also if Keke Palmer has no desire to be accepted into the mainsteam and has purposefully gone for roles that affirm blackness, then being called "Black Famous" in a way that is meant to cheapen her success would be insulting. She is a successful actor and is seen as such among her peers and within the film industry. She is right when she says that colorism is the reason her success would even be compared in the first place. It's like saying what she has achieved isn't good enough because she doesn't pass the paper bag test. White people loved Wayne Brady; what would we consider his career?

@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024

2 жыл бұрын

Wayne Brandy is a man. It’s different. Patriarchy is a POWERFUL force.

Keke is 'black folks' popular. Sort of like Larenz Tate, Laz Alonso, Nia Long, Sanaa Lathan and others. Keke is underrated. I do think colorism plays a part, but that's not the fault of the actresses. and I'm sure Keke is tired of talking about it. Like she said her resume is long. Alice, sounded interesting, but where did it show? I saw trailers but never did hear when it was released.

@Arian-vf6jo

2 жыл бұрын

I think people started talking about it to point out how colourism plays out in Hollywood and were trying to point out that Keke should also have the same level of success and fame as Zendaya. However it has turned to be a Zendaya vs Keke thing, with Keke likely to come out looking worse through no fault of her own. I just don't understand how that happened.

@brielleknoxsragerecoveryclinic

2 жыл бұрын

Facts

@idk-man125

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. There are so many Black actresses that are famous within the community and have been in several projects but aren’t Oscar/Emmy nominated and if you were to ask a non-Black person to name movies/shows that they’ve been they wouldn’t know. That is what Keke was before Nope, very well known and respected amongst Black people but probably only generally known by others. This role in Nope has her known by EVERYONE now, it’s crazy to see people say they had no idea that she was a child actor

@joshuamcdowell9745

2 жыл бұрын

@@Arian-vf6jo I saw it on Prime. Alice was a good movie

Akeelah and the bee was Keke's breakout role! Then she transitioned to a Disney/Nickelodeon star. Which for a brown skinned girl is monumental. To helm a show of your own on a Network like such. Keke has always been work and always been a fixture.

To be fair to Keke, she has a more varied career. She has done a Broadway and is on HBO's legendary. Zendaya has been in several projects but is rarely a lead.

@gonda3435

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaichen04wasn't zendaya on disney?

@raaid22

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaichen04 ok, Zendaya is accomplished, I am just saying that her success isn't that much more than Keke's

@elimarshall1497

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaichen04 it’s disrespectful to compare someone to someone else when they weren’t asking to be compared in the first place. KeKe is having a very successful career right now and she wants to enjoy it without all the drama. So why all of a sudden are people trying to compare her to zendaya out of nowhere. This really isn’t about KeKe this about peoples obsession with drama

@apatouros7572

2 жыл бұрын

can I ask a dumb question 😅 is Euphoria really that big of an accomplishment?

@BlkbunniOrg

2 жыл бұрын

@@apatouros7572 honestly I think ppls astonishment with it is the fact Zendaya has this Disney cookie cutter imagine and the show it self is so gritty and raw Had it been any other actress leading it I don’t think it would have gotten as much hype

I have to point out keke palmer made it a point to be in black projects and spaces. she wasnt prioritizing competing for the few roles dark skin women get in mainstream hollywood like say, coco jones was. so while keke should have more appreciation and mainstream success, that wasnt necessarily her goal. its apparent that zendaya had more opportunities than keke, but zendaya prioritized reading for roles for white women and adding biracial representation. keke wouldnt be able to do that but she prioritized her involvement in black projects first and foremost. so i agree when people say coco jones would be a better comparison. shes mentioned in the past how shes had to turn down plenty of "big" opportunities and roles in mainstream hollywood she booked because they wanted to present her in a way she wasnt comfortable with

Thank you. It's sickening people have ro compare Keke to her more privileged friend. Let her have her moment. Tons of other dark skinned poc, lgbt and plus sized people have had hit films and weren't compared to others that are considered more desirable. Why can dark skinned black women enjoy their limelight and feel like a million bucks like other marginalized actors.

@sherrisolomon8673

2 жыл бұрын

Kimberly DiPiazza, Good point.

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

Zendaya is more priviledged how?

@SkippyLaughlin

Жыл бұрын

@@tmsphere she's lighter and racist Hollywood doesn't cast darker skinned black women enough let alone in desirable roles. They're both amazing and are faves of mine. But I know that I we have more privilege because there are less opportunities and more bias towards darker people of color

I just want another film with Angela Bassett as Keke’s mother and Laurence Fishburne as her father.

@vanellesmith4598

2 жыл бұрын

Yes.

@alicerising8972

2 жыл бұрын

AMEN. Please let KeKe live her best life. God, let BLACK women breathe. Leave us alone! Exhausting. Kim's commentary is spot on.

@hopeh1095

2 жыл бұрын

In Akeela and the Bee I think Laurence Fishburne was Akeela mentor I’m not too sure. It would be good to see Angela Bassett n Laurence play as her parents.

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

watch that movie a 2nd time then..

Keke Palmer is definitely the star of Nope. I wouldn’t say “breakout” because people SHOULD know who she is from her other appearances throughout film and television. She is so charismatic as an actor and personality. In Nope she displays a loud yet perceptive character that doesn’t shy away from intuition and agency. I’ve always admired her talents and the third act of Nope felt like this “moment” for her because of how magnetic of a presence she was and how she was the emotional core of the final act.

@selalewis9189

2 жыл бұрын

Well said. I definitely came out of the theater thinking, “There were so many people in that theater who will now know Keke Palmer other than memes.”

I completely agree with this assessment. While Keke is a household name in the Black community, this has been her breakout year. Besides Nope, she was also in Lightyear, and even though that movie was not a financial success, it had nothing to do with Keke but messy politics. She also hosted Legendary this season and was on the last season of Insecure. So she had two shows on HBO Max, a Pixar movie and the #1 movie at the box office. She deserves to just bask in this win.

I think that it is important to remember that actresses pick their roles. I think that Keke has a good enough relationship with Disney, where if she wanted to be in a Marvel movie she could be. It may just be that the kind of roles Zendaya takes are not the ones that Keke wants, which is one of the problems I have with the comparison. I have always identified with the characters Keke Palmer plays, which makes her more iconic to me personally than someone like Zendaya, and I truly think that that is intentional. Keke Palmer being a household name in black households is success. Zendaya is the current black "it" girl, she makes the right moves, but I can't think of a role she has played that I have personally liked and see myself in. However, there are also just going to be roles where people have Zendaya in mind specifically ( I think Dune is one of them, I don't think they were considering anybody else for that part) because she is extremely overssaturated and appeals to white people. My question isn't why doesn't Keke have the career of Zendaya because they feel like they are in completely different lanes, and have different goals. It is an apples to oranges comparison where nobody comes out on top. We can definitely ask other questions like why Keke had to make her own work, why weren't people coming to her? I question why Zendaya doesn't have the same access to Oscar bait leading roles as the white "it" girls who are in her lane like Saoirse Ronan and Florence Pugh? Hollywood is structured in a way to disadvantage both women, which is not to say that Zendaya doesn't have privileges.

@noranjoku7651

2 жыл бұрын

A very interesting analysis and such an underrated comment

If people want to choose an actress to talk about colorism they need to hit up Viola Davis! In her book she talks about in her career and it defentily is real!

Keke is it for me, hands down. I love an artist who knows they are Black. I love an artist whose main competition is themselves. I love an artist who shows up to entertain, every time, no matter how big or small the platform. I love an artist who plays the long game. I can see Keke being around for many many many years and when she does win an Oscar or EGOT it will be well deserved and it will be a win that all of us can connect with. Zendaya is an amazing actress, and she will do very well in her career. We can all see that. For Keke, though, it feels almost like she's transcended the word actress. It's just not enough. She's an entertainer through and through; it seems to be in her bones. Good for her working with Jordan Peele, love his stuff!

@cinnamongirl7519

2 жыл бұрын

❤️

@noranjoku7651

2 жыл бұрын

Keke has done acting, music and hosting as well as appeared in film, television and broadway. I agree she’s the true definition of an ‘Entertainer’

@Aniexo_

2 жыл бұрын

I love your comment

I don’t know how good of friends the two are but they obviously have known each other for a while! I hate the idea that a conversation someone else started on their behalf could come between them. Fingers crossed they had a chat about it behind the scenes and can both keep thriving while remaining friendly.

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

they both agreed to delete twitter.

I think Spider-man movies helped Zendaya to transition from Disney and brought her into mainstream. She also did The Greatest Showman with Hugh Jackman. That was a huge movie. I don't think Euphoria was her breakout role. That was just the role that allowed people to see her as more of a serious actress and showcased her range. Malcolm & Marie was the role that allowed her to be an adult instead of a teenage girl. Ronnie Spector handpicked Zendaya to play her in her biopic before she passed. Both Zendaya and Keke Palmer have great careers and are talented. They shouldn't be pinned against each other. Their careers aren't the same to be compare.

The word Fetishization be kicking my ass too 😂 I always give up, lol

I agree with your statement that multi racial and mixed people are getting a lot of attention and are sometimes fetishized. As a mixed race person, I've had people perk up and suddenly have more interest in me when finding out that both of my parents aren't Black. Or, they want to try and "guess" what I'm mixed with which is sickening.

@luvnpossibilities

2 жыл бұрын

But it's always been light and mixed people in the spotlight in the black community and even white community since slavery history in the USA tbh. This is NOT new.

Can Keke pls have this moment that she’s been working so hard for? No need to compare her to someone else. 2 ppl can exist in the same place without the comparison. Keke you are blessed and highly favored. You will continue to have great rolls and become greater. I wish you more success in the future sista! ❤️😍

If Keke Palmer took the kind of roles Zendaya plays black people would attack Keke as being offensive to the image of black people etc., etc. So some people are so miserable they have nothing going on in their lives.

It also brings about the notion of there only being one spot for ' new hot blk actress'... pining them against each other... when there's so many wht actresses being acknowledged n catapulted into being a universally known superstar.

I think we need to learn when to be quiet. After Keke’s Palmer initial response she did a follow up response about external validation. Now my initial thought was, she has a right to respond and navigate a perceived oppression that someone is attaching to her how she sees fit. Additionally, she somewhat gaslit what is clear as day. The fact that during her resume, she dropped FIRST black woman to do… a few times, speaks volumes in itself. I think Keke should of remained quiet like zendaya. Simply because now it invalidates other black women who are more vocal and willing to loudly advocate for these issues in those spaces. BUT!!! if keke is content and happy in her career with what she’s accomplished and where she is at, I can see how she could of taken that a wrong way. Like “don’t project your standards and what you feel you deserve in comparison to others in different racial backgrounds to me and my experience, I’m good” that’s what I took from it. Also I don’t think the author of the tweet intended to put zendaya against keke, they were merely examples to drive home the catalyst of the convo. That’s people and their inability to distance themselves emotionally from said topic at hand.

@MoreMaddie

2 жыл бұрын

That’s her truth though… and why should she have to represent a narrative she didn’t think fits her to suite everyone else??? I think y’all are doing more damage by trying to force her to be disappointed in her career when she clearly isn’t … I understand the bigger conversation around colorism but it’s equally frustrating to see a black woman stick up for herself and be looked down upon for not seeing her shortcomings rather her accomplishments.

@QueenLovelee

2 жыл бұрын

@@MoreMaddie who’s looking down on her? You couldn’t have read my comment and arrived at the conclusion that I’m looking down on her. If you did, then clearly you failed at contextualizing this very simplistic comment above.

@propogandalf

2 жыл бұрын

@@QueenLovelee Don't think they were saying you were looking down on her, but that's the perspective and narrative that's being imposed on her right now by the masses.

@Singer_and_Songwriter

2 жыл бұрын

@@QueenLovelee 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

Woke twitter is bored so we absolutely have to do Zendaya vs Keke to fill our pathetic lives with momentary joy. And bring our grandparents onto it bc we have no moral compass to speak of.

Black Famous vs Mainstream Famous … That’s the title of this conversation.

Not feeling this topic. What's for Keke is for Keke. What's for Zendaya is for Zendaya. Let's stop the comparison. It's giving miserable. It's giving unhealthy.

no shade im from northern california and younger than Z, nobody hypes her up over here where she’s from like these yt people do….she clearly meets a standard of their “white beauty”

@xoxo.syisyis1551

2 жыл бұрын

yep! she's their type of "black"

@RandomUser7199

2 жыл бұрын

Lmao kinda idiotic to speak for an entire area because I highly doubt you know and speak to everyone to make that assessment. And from what it seems the Bay Area where she’s from does hype and show her love.

we can have a Keke Palmer and Zendaya too! we have space. we are not interchangeable carbon copies of each other. Keke is definitely in her own lane and so is Zendaya. There is also reverse colorism assuming a person is doing well simply because they are lighter in complexion and it can also go the other way.

When you have child stars you spend a lot of time interacting with the parents. In the case of Zendaya, outside of colorism, her having a white mother interacting with white agents, directors, producers etc. could also have helped to smooth her career path.

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

any evidence her white mother made her career with her whiteness or are we going full moon logic here?

Keke is also well known among gamers who play league of legends bc she is part of a league band called true damage

I feel like people try to invalidate the experience of DSBW by using celebrities who “claim they aren’t victims”. Acknowledging colorism just makes people uncomfortable because they don’t want to actually change anything. I do think keke shouldn’t have went against her best interest as a DSBW and downplayed the truth that’s she speak up about before. If her intention was to not overshadow her moment, her responding just brought more light to it. Still love her though !!! But her and artists like Ari Lennox kinda undermine themselves when it comes to these topics. When people try to defend them they push back to not appear as a “victim” but the colorist people they are tryna appease still undermine them regardless. Which is why I don’t understand the point behind going out of your way to do that.

@thrivingtresses7529

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with you but I would also add that it’s counterproductive to expect DSBW especially celebrities to take on the activist trope. Black people are not a monolith therefore, Keke is only responsible for herself and no one else. It is not her job to speak on these issues if she herself doesn’t feel like she identifies with them. I think when we start expecting nothing from these celebrities we won’t have any room for disappointments.

@Rice_Cakes99

2 жыл бұрын

@@thrivingtresses7529 I definitely agree I don’t think anyone has to take on the activist role and I don’t expect anything from celebrities. I’m just saying she’s spoke about colorism affecting her before so if a fan brings it up and she actively goes against them she’s essentially downplaying herself and her experience she pointed out previously. But she can do what she wants but change will never happen if people don’t point out the uncomfortable truth. Tbh I don’t it will happen anytime soon that’s why it’s better to just focus on yourself. So I don’t don’t blame Keke for acting in her own self interest in the moment.

Keke Palmer & Daniel Kaluuya were outstanding in Nope. The acting was the best part of Nope. Keke deserves to gets tons of work & more money after Nope. :)

I really feel this is not about keke or Zendaya….it’s about the people in the suits or that have the money to put certain ppl in films…so I think that is where the conversation needs to go???

I’ve known who Keke Palmer is since 2007 when she was in Jump In on Disney Channel!

Completely agree. This whole “examination” is reinforcing stereotypes. It is not producing anything positive. It would be great if we can celebrate two young women making their way without a host of problems.

@josephinebournes8212

2 жыл бұрын

This comment 👉🏾

Best most rational commentary I’ve seen those far. People want to make this situation black and white when it’s not. I blame social media one popular blog post then all of them are posting the same thing it’s annoying. I feel so bad they taking away from her moment.

Honestly their careers are pretty similar. They both have seemed to space out the amount of work they take since leaving Disney/Nick. Also for the casual Zendaya fan, Euphoria was her breakout from Disney. Gen Z loves Zendaya but I feel most people didn’t take her acting seriously till Euphoria.

@sarahtanis1235

2 жыл бұрын

This. Aside from systemic colorism/racism issues in Hollywood, just the challenge alone of transitioning from child star to adult actor is insanely difficult. Not many actors (of any race), esp those Disney/Nickelodeon ones, make it to the other side gracefully or without crashing and burning. Keke spoke about this on Desus & Mero and how actors have to rebrand/reconfigure the public's perception. It says a lot that both managed to forge their own path.

Yes to - at the end of the day - “it reinforces the ideas that black spaces are marginal” love your commentary

On top of the colorism KeKe presents herself as a black women she uses AAV in her interviews even tho she switch it up when she wants too whereas Zendaya doesn’t another thing am I the only one that hates when zendaya says she’s a lightskin black girl baby say you’re biracial it’s ok

@fundash5124

2 жыл бұрын

I do not have any problem for Zendaya to call herself light skin black girl but I do understand what you're saying. She should accept herself for being a perfect mix between a mother and her father and by calling herself light skin black girl it seems like she's removing herself from her mother side and that's kind of seems sad. But I do not have any problem for her to call herself a light skin black girl because race is a social construct that separates people

@propogandalf

2 жыл бұрын

I find it misleading. Light skin Black people who are fully Black are a separate group that she's making herself seem to be a part of.

It's not that she's a break out star, it means this is her breakout role that will Garner her a possible Oscar nomination.

I agree let Keke have her moment. Everybody is picking up on this story and bringing this topic to her high moment in her career even mainstream now. When there should've been more adulation and hype thrown her way. Let both girls have their moments in the sun whenever they come. Unless they both benefit from this discussion, let's let them both get the roles they want and deserve and not put them under the microscope in front of the world. With all things, some ppl have turned this into a versus when I bet they look at each other as a queen. This can end up being "baggage" when being considered for future roles for both. Yes, Keke strands to get hurt more because she's already been in the process of stepping into her mainstream bag, and was already on the brink of being a household name. The thing about it is also that no matter how long you've been in the game no matter what attributes you have, you'll get your moment only when it's your time. Yes, actors have different obstacles to navigate through on their way. This occurs across the board between actors.

This really shouldn't be a discussion. They're both established. Bless them both. 🙏

I LOVED KEKE PALMER'S RESPONSE TO THIS!!!

As a dark skin person for folks to automatically assume you’re a victim is playing more into the colorism trope than anything. So many limitations put on dark skin people, just let us be.

@princesschanel469

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. Im dark skinned & im perfectly fine, dating this yt boy that treats me amazing. Im far too happy to worry abt this sh*t

@0812820

2 жыл бұрын

Yet, y’all automatically assume that every black person is a victim of racism. What’s the difference? Colorism is real just like racism is real, but the black community’s response to the two are very different.

@tiffanytiffany4564

2 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately some black folks make ish worse when they think they're trying to help. They are literally putting this label on Kiki and she didn't ask for it. Leave dark skin women alone. Sorry I just can't stand "woke" people.

@triaverse

2 жыл бұрын

Talking about the nuances of colorism in society and entrainment….. isn’t colorism itself. Y’all can’t be serious 😂😂😂

@leilanidru7506

2 жыл бұрын

@@triaverse shhhh. Apparently colorism doesn’t exist or affect you If you’re personally successful or happy. Because that’s how systematic barriers work.

I hate these comparisons

I think Keke Palmer is incredibly talented and hope she gets her flowers now! Colorism very much plays a role in her success.

Zendaya watches khadija mbowe so she definitely has some level of awareness of colorism

@BleFav

2 жыл бұрын

oooo really has she said this somewhere??

@leemo5486

2 жыл бұрын

She said that?

The fact that Zendaya is always big upping black people in general and black women specifically it bothers me that she is the one we always jump to so we can discuss colorism. I get that colorism is part of why people find her palatable but when she is working to counteract that for other she shouldn't be the one we always bring up.

Thank you for this missing and much needed commentary. I hated how much people were digging into Keke Palmer for her response, when she literally is on a career high and is at a very critical point in her career, while not expecting Zendaya to say ANYTHING…

Kim, I *ALWAYS* come away from your videos having learned something important when it comes to how race/colorism should be discussed, at least online. Great stuff

"we don't need zendaya in wakanda" 😭😭😭😭😭 fr tho

I think they are both beautiful and talented.

The reality is, white roles pay more money so Zendaya is both on code and winning. I also think this is about light skin, there is nothing particularly exotic about Zendaya, apart from her name.

When you said "are we really going have a convo about colorism about millionaires" I totally agreed. Class will always always ALWAYS trump race, gender, religion, etc. Yes she can absolutely experience discrimination in high places but don't act like she still didn't manage to get to that high place. That's why Trump and Clinton were frenemies up until 2016. Bush and Degeneres. Bush and Michelle Obama even. Rich folk will always stick together at the end of the day.

@brendaking8532

2 жыл бұрын

SO TRUE…

As a person born and raised In Chicago… MISS KEKE PALMER HAS ALWAYS BEEN A STAR. A CLASS ACT A TRIPLE THREAT. Also when Zendaya first started she worked with a stylist in Chicago at a place called Deliciously. Vintage. That is where she learned fashion got introduced to the world of it and they helped her with a lot of her looks. BOTH Ladies are extremely talented. There is no need for comparison but I know why the black media does it… saying all that to say both are well raised talented young women. With grace class style and individuality. No need to compare put them in a movie together!!

Also, another tweet i saw on twitter, about this discourse. is someone saying that not knowing keke palmer is a YOU problem- and then everyone who quoted the person with her accolades on projects that everybody knows her from at least somewhere Disney/ nick. Also i don't blame her for not participating in the narrative of feeling shes not mainstream enough when she has been the break-out star since she was a child. success is going to be different for everybody and don't have to be your name plasted everywhere nor having a hit movie with praise.

It's kinda apples and oranges to compare action movies with ensemble casts and set pieces and CGI. Her major exposure would have been on Good Morning America. That being said colorism is always at play systemically.

I’ve never a person that doesn’t know Keke Palmer white or black

I agree with everything said in this video. I also realized that a lot of "white roles" don't seem to require a lot of acting skills. I've been noticing that poc actors or the roles they play demonstrate impressive acting skills. There are some white actors/actresses whom I recognize their talent/skill in the roles they play. But I notice it more with the poc actors. This also goes for actors who don't fit in with societies conventional beauty standards, including the white ones. So actors who don't have the "actor/model look" have to have more talent or hone their skill more. There are some white actors and actresses, that are mainstream famous and have been in a lot of stuff, whom I have just recently realized played a lot of non impressive characters. Some of them have finally played an impressive character after a decade of success. Now I haven't seen all of their roles but the ones that I have haven't been very impressive. I was noticing this with Zendaya, no shade on her. I wasn't impressed with most of the roles I have seen her in. [I haven't seen all of her stuff.] Now, it kind of makes since if she is going after roles made for white people. I don't believe a role portrays an actors full acting ability. So I didn't make any assumption of such about Zendaya. I just was hoping she would get the opportunity to play a more impressive role someday. She may have and maybe it was one of her films that I didn't care for the storyline, and so didn't watch.

All these black people here being dismissive of colorism need to keep the same energy when it comes to racism. If Zendaya were a white woman, people would get woke real fast, but since this is colorism y'all wanna talk about victim mindset.

@BrightEyes24

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, thank you, and I say that as someone who also loves Zendaya.

@ml5923

2 жыл бұрын

don’t y’all get tired of being hateful? again, zendaya didn’t do anything in order for there to be a comparison… that’s like saying nicole kidman doesn’t get paid as much as Tika sumpter therefore she’s racist? while objectively true she gets paid more the comparison is random other than the fact they’re both actors

@jaylan7847

2 жыл бұрын

@@ml5923 Nobody attacked Zendaya, so I don't know why people are getting defensive over her. No one called her a colorist either. Your point? I was going to assume you were either a non-black person or a black man, but based on this comments section, I wouldn't be surprised if you were a black woman who just doesn't get it.

@ml5923

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaylan7847 yeah and i assume you’re an insufferable insecure bozo but 🤷🏽‍♀️ A.) there have been a plethora of women undermining her talent and calling her mediocre in comparison to Keke plenty of “bland” comments and “she’s just famous cause she’s light skin” comments which sounds like attacks to majority of anyone with critical thinking skills B.) your opinion is just an opinion not a fact not a universal truth just an opinion (which everyone has) C.) “i would assume you were a black man or non black woman” isn’t the serve you thought it was 😭 (i can tell you spend too much time on divestment yt/twitter which makes you the equivalent as the BM who have disdain for BW but are constant speaking negatively about them (weird) D.) black women aren’t a monolith therefore we all don’t need to agree on a subject and last but not least E.) You are an utter and complete weirdo if you think it’s appropriate to create controversy in attempt to “help” someone’s career on the opening weekend of their project you are just projecting not helping lmfao. y’all got too much time and energy

@RandomUser7199

2 жыл бұрын

@@jaylan7847 lmao but there are people attacking her may not be you but these conversations never just stay on colorism it turns in to some dsbw bashing Zendaya saying Keke deserves her hype and what not and vice verses.

This is going to hurt her more then help. People don't wanna feel like they've being forced to support something or guilt them into accepting something they probably would have accepted without you forcing it on them. If having her involved bringing so much negative controversy they'll just decide not to work with her. Thanks alot WOKE crowd, you really know how to mess it up for the rest.

@sugarpearl9781

2 жыл бұрын

No one is being forced or guilting into liking anything. We’re having a conversation about the very real affects of colorism in the entertainment industry. We shouldn’t stop having these conversations because they make some people uncomfortable. Cope or scroll.

@tiffanytiffany4564

2 жыл бұрын

@@sugarpearl9781 Still doesn't change the fact that people are not going to buy into it!

@ml5923

2 жыл бұрын

@@sugarpearl9781 you can have conversations about colorism without comparing people and especially when it was the opening weekend of her movie like what about that is lost on y’all? it was a real conversation but at an inappropriate time point blank period and y’all are weird for acting like you don’t get it

@tiffanytiffany4564

2 жыл бұрын

@@ml5923 It's self sabotaging.

@NiomiBlossom

2 жыл бұрын

@@tiffanytiffany4564 thank you!

I think it has to be mentioned that these are two actresses of color in their twenties in Hollywood, which is a notoriously colorist, anti-black, misogynistic, and ageist industry. And even though all of those things have contributed differently to their careers, their resumes are pretty mediocre as a whole. That doesn't mean they aren't talented, it means that so much of their strategies have to encompass fan recognition because the industry they work in isn't designed for them to succeed on their roles alone; they just aren't getting enough meaty roles for that. Because yes, the Spiderman films are mediocre, but the fans really love them so nobody cares that Zendaya is just playing "the girl". At the end of the day, Hollywood is the greatest beneficiary of this comparison situation, it's been benefiting from comparing actresses for over a century.

To me they all shine in their own ways, though I must mention I was so proud to see Keke Palmer on the series "Berlin Station" even though she wasn't the main main I would still get so hyped seeing her story lines on the series 😍😍 I love the diversity in Germany and her character was the best there

I remember Keke from her Nickelodeon sitcom True Jackson VP from like 2009. I rewatched it recently, and as far as Nickelodeon sitcoms go, this one is pretty underrated. I'm really glad she's finally getting her flowers.

No KeKe slander will be tolerated ( not referring to you). She is talented in every arena. Zendaya talented as well but folks need to stop.

Maybe there needs to be a better term to define this specific version of “break out”. Lupita breaking out in 12 Years right outta college is different from Taraji “breaking out” in Empire or Viola in HTGAWM. Idk.

This is the most nuanced discussion I have seen of this. Love your insight!

Success is how you feel about how you are and the things you have done! It does not always have to have a monetary value of worth. Keke is successful in her own rite just as well as Zendaya in hers. Nobody should have to "cross over" to be considered successful. They both should be respected in their industry, and get paid appropriately in the projects they involve themselves in.

Kim, my good sis - you delivered once again!!

I disagree. I think she could have said what she responded with and also acknowledge colourism bc those other women were now attacked in the internet and told that they were making everything about colourism up

Kim, would love it if you could start tagging your outfits please, thank you! 🤗

@125loopy

2 жыл бұрын

Girl, I was just about to ask for the details on the top 😍

@ShanyShannon

2 жыл бұрын

I just typed in aaliyah newspaper top, it is from forever 21 and the material is mesh & polyester. 😀

I like Zendaya, but I feel like only taking white roles works in her favor more so than black women’s favor. It’s partly why she’s blown up so much because she didn’t go the Tessa Thompson or Thandie Newton route of mostly playing black woman role characters. So, it kind of feels weird applauding her for it. If anything, I want to see more unambiguously black women stealing white women’s roleslol. It’s 2022, acting roles shouldn’t be segregated

@eryabolonha

2 жыл бұрын

Well Zendaya is half-white(or more) so it makes sense for her to search for these roles instead of full-black women roles.

@ddacoe0

2 жыл бұрын

Wow... I hadn't thought of it like that. That's actually a pretty deep assessment. I think you're totally right. Using Thandiwe and Tessa as examples makes a lot of sense. I totally agree, it's 2022...and yeah, acting roles are segregated. Love that when you put/phrase it that way you can better appreciate just how crazy this ish is!

@gdesiree29

2 жыл бұрын

Also she's spiderman's love interest . She's in a big marvel role

@a.c5009

2 жыл бұрын

All of it works in her favor so…?Both can be true. A biracial person taking a white role is always more beneficial to both the biracial and bw than a biracial taking a black role. Zendaya is doing what we’ve always wanted all biracial/mixed/lightskins to do…to simply not take up space of an already marginalized group but instead taking up the space of the most privileged. Now if you’re just questioning her motives behind it that’s a diff argument.

@amateurastronomer9752

2 жыл бұрын

@@eryabolonha Oh, you’re right it completely does. I guess it’s just a lot of black woman are thanking her for it, like it was some sort of woke activism when in actuality, it was probably more strategic. White women’s roles pay better. 🤷🏽‍♀️

I think the person who got upset about Nope being called Keke’s “Breakout role” misunderstands the term. A lot of people think Hollywood is like La La Land where you do auditions for a few years until you star in a movie or tv show when really you have to get a lot of minor roles until you make connections and get to actually star in something. Keke has been around for awhile and if you were a kid in the early 2000s or early 2010s you’d recognize her. This isn’t her first role but it’s def the thing that is finally positioning her as a movie star. I’m honestly annoyed that she’s only becoming a mainstream star NOW. I grew up watching her on tv; she was always one of my favs and I almost screamed in the theater when I saw her in Hustlers. I’m not sure if she took a break from serious acting or something but the person on Twitter is right in pointing out that successful Black actresses in Hollywood tend to be on the light side and it’s no coincidence. It’s also probably not a coincidence that she’s getting her big break in a Jordan Peele movie, a director who is good about hiring darker skinned actors for his films.

Why let this overshadow her moment? Y'all want more dark skin representation in film and tv, you get it, then ruin it with these comparisons. The conversation was needed but not now. I'm like damn u waited until Keke had a big mainstream break to do this now smh. Honestly Keke shouldn't have even responded.

Been a fan of Keke since "Akeelah and the Bee" and a fan of Zendaya since "Shake It Up." They have both been sort of "it" girls to me growing up as they're both a little older than me, super talented and admirable. Seeing them compared like this was...disappointing. I get why but at the same time...why? The discourse is getting so stale at this point. Every time a black actress achieves anything, people got to bring up Zendaya. I agree that we need to start centering this conversation on average people because having it take place with the rich and famous is running the validity of this discourse into the ground which shouldn't be the case, as colorism is still a huge issue.

Im a white hispanic and ive known who keke palmer was since like 2006ish when i was 12...i loved akeelah and the bee when i was light. I dont care much for zendeya but i REALLY used to like keke growing up.

I think Z doesn't need to say anything. Also agree with Keke self preserving. The best way to end individualized comparison would be to have them take a picture together, to nip any narrative of comparisons in the bud. Hopefully they've talked behind closed doors. I think a point was brought up that colurism doesn't need to be an individualized spectacle and I agree.

People need to stop demanding validation of their thoughts/beliefs from celebrities

They act like they can't give black women their props without comparing them to some light skinned or mixed woman. Keke deserves her own props and so does Zendaya. The fact is, Keke is "black famous" and Zendaya is considered more mainstream.

Zendaya is NOT BLACK. She’s biracial. And besides - Zendaya hasn’t really been in front of the camera often. She’s simply secured more lucrative deals. So to me… - Keke is a Performing Artist. -Zendaya is a Business woman.

@shannacollins8371

2 жыл бұрын

Having one Black parent doesn’t make you less Black.

Your commentary and breakdowns are so delicious and timely. Love everything you do💜🖤✨

SN: The red nails, matte-makeup, brown eyeshadow on you give me such a 90s glam moment and I love it!

Kim I need your take on Nope 🥺 I promise it's not a horror movie but it's a whole moment

Zendaya is really great about staying above nonsense. It's "Eye of the Tiger" over there. The whole conversation is wrong from its conception because the initiator does not understand Hollywood. Simply doing more and being around longer does not equate mainstream white success or induct an actor into the 20 Mill per film club. Its about the quality of the work, the budgets, the reach, etc. Its also about marketability to as wide of an audience as possible. The only predominately black projects that have been able to truly cross color-lines that I know of is Black Panther and these Jordan Peel projects so be clear, Keke is on the right track.... Everyone's journey is custom to them, you can't truly compare folks like that...

You can acknowledge something is so and not let it hold you back at the same time and that’s what Keke has done and is doing.

I just don’t like how the internet likes to pin women against one another. There are spaces for both and all women to thrive.

Xendaya is Bay Area Oakland baby!! Those kids are born woke and talkin right! I think being raised in Oakland is a huge part of it. I taught in Oakland and those kids are aware in a whole different way. Revolution is in the water!

I'll be waiting on that day for the Jordan Peele vid

I can understand why Keke Palmer might have felt the best way way to respond to this was to list of her accomplishments because by the comparing her success to Zendaya's the way they did could be seen as downgrading a lot of things Keke did. I can also see why Keke might not feel colorism has negatively effected her career because looking at her IMDB pages she has constantly been working since she started acting, that's not something every actor can say. Also we don't know what she has gone out for, maybe the roles she didn't get weren't given enough to light skin actress for her to feel that's the reason she didn't get parts.

Keke was also recently in lightyear, and the busget for the film was 200 million

Keke has discussed colorism. So she's well aware. Her response to the fan wasn't necessary, it was a hindrance. If she wants to excluded from this particular story, she ironically gave it more press.

@tmsphere

Жыл бұрын

fans are idiots who make everything worse.

Mixed girls in Hollywood is the new black! We black people especially black men are those ones producing these mixed women and men that are being shoved down our throat as the new black preference in Hollywood, not a new thing because all my life from childhood from coming to America etc the love interest is always the light mixed curly hair skinny and in music videos as the new black..so not at all shocked 😳. Just surprised that trend has not died down but since KZreadrs have been vocal about it and colorism, I notice now in rap music and music videos the love or focus has been shifted to dark skinned girl including Afro beats! But these afrobeats artists stars use dark skinned as love interest but in real life these artists are with mixed or light skinned girls as wives and girlfriends