Do you agree with the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE?

@SirLolawut

Ай бұрын

Its just dumb feel good cope by some healers that seethe because some pro gamers dont need em in a demo.

@wackantheduck6883

Ай бұрын

@@SirLolawut My friend. Healers have a 1 button damage rotation that makes up 70-80% of their GCD casts (in savage / ultimate, higher in normal stuff). I just want to press buttons instead of AFK'ing 90% of the time. I don't think the average healer players mind will instantly explode if they get one or two other things to do. Much like how tank players don't have a 1 button rotation so they can "focus on their mitigation abilities" because obviously their fragile idiot tank brain wouldn't be able to handle one more ability, that would be silly. The "pro gamers" you're talking about are not gods at the game. Any WAR player with a pulse can solo heal dungeons (this applies to PLD and GNB too, but it's less extreme). Tanks have such strong short CD healing abilites that a dungeon group without a healer is not a cheesy niche thing to do, it's objectively better since healers don't contribute anything to a dungeon group that a tank / DPS combo doesn't do better. This has been the case since ShB, and if you've ever been in an active non-6 quadrillion member FC you've probably been doing healerless runs for 6+ years. By picking healer in a dungeon, you're griefing. They just keep adding these oGCD heals when we already have too many. I dare you, name ANY situation currently in the game where it's required for you to use all 87548 of your oGCD heals, it doesn't exist but they just keep adding more for some godforsaken reason Here are some common attacks people respond with (Just to cover all bases): "I-IF YOU WANNA DPS GO PLAY A DPS!!" That's literally what the strike means. We're just not gonna' play healers cuz they suck "YOU'RE JUST AN ELITIST" I'm by no means an expert, I did one (1) Exteme in ShB but even I need SOME stimulation. "YOU'RE JUST BAD, PLAY ULTIMATE / SAVAGE IF YOU WANT HEALERS TO BE HARDER" The hardest fight ever designed, TOP has been beaten on patch without healers, aswell as plenty of other Savage fights (also on patch). The fact that you press 1-1-1-1 80% of the times doesn't change the higher you go. "LOLOLOL I'M NOT READING THAT" Cope, sneed, dilate. GG EZ.

@geekvga

Ай бұрын

Simplification often accompanies an aging player base. It's a complex situation for those who enjoy the role. For example, should healer checks be added to battles? Is it better to introduce more skills or to reduce the potency of existing ones? It's a challenging issue.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

No because I feel some of the statements contradict each other. Why complain about heavy ogcd healing when you also advocate for more intricate dps gcd rotations. “The lack of threat levels in all-content” is a straight up lie once you jump into even the current story trials, and of course higher content. Leveling dungeons/expert dungeons account for the first 20% of the current patches battle content, it’s always been the weakest. And that doesn’t even include variant/criterion/criterion savage dungeons which takes the 4-man dungeon content and amp it up to make it harder. I feel for the desire to have more engaging dps, one button spamming is mindless. But I think some of the points to back up the claim are grossly misinformed either maliciously or ignorance.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

@@wackantheduck6883 TOP is a grossly designed fight imo. It’s the ONLY fight that has been cleared with no healers, by a single static ever sure, but the fact that is was cleared is crazy for balancing! Sadly you literally cannot do that in the savage boss that you need to clear to unlock TOP at release to begin with. I’ve also seen an all whm clear of TOP as well, and it shows that healer dps, while terribly mind numbing, is at least high enough to clear the pinnacle of current bosses. Like I said TOP is STRANGE

So what I'm getting from this is that the already instant healer queues are going to be even more instant, got it. Just so anyone who sees this thinks I'm slighting against healers, tanks aren't fully necessary either. DPS are capable of surviving tankbusters and small groups of mobs in dungeons with support from healers, so it's a one or the other in terms of necessity. DPS are a necessity for the sake of things not taking forever to do, but ultimately a healer and a tank can clear a dungeon without dps, it'll just take 3 times as long.

For me, the situation is complicated, to say the least. I believe the community hasn't yet realized that besides continuing with just one attack button, they didn't even want to modify this attack. In other words, we'll continue with the same Broil IV/Glare 3 for three years, and to me, that's the saddest part of it all. It's truly a total disregard for the class. I think it should be mandatory to have at least an evolution of the skill, a new animation, something. But they did nothing. It's very frustrating.

While I do believe they should give the healers more dmg abilities for rotations like what they did when introducing Sage, I do not believe they should remove rez from the Summoner and red mage. I’ve had a number of instances where I’m doing raids or dungeons and my healer is new or another player in the team is new and gets the healer killed. Imo it is still nice to have that mechanic on those two characters specifically for emergencies to potentially prevent the entire team from wiping. I’ve also had instances where a mentor is running someone new to healing through raids/dungeons, and they are using summoner or red mage just to put the new healer at ease so they know that Rez is there just in case mistakes are made. You shouldn’t have to remove the utilities of another class or downgrade their playstyle to improve your own, at that point I think the encounters simply need to be more dangerous and the healers need more options added to their kits to prevent stale gameplay :)

@natashagalaxy7228

Ай бұрын

I had a moment on last trial in 6.5 where both healers were playing floor pov and I rezzed one as RDM and they popped LB3 and we saved the run. Having moments like that feels really good and I agree with you.

I think they should definitely try and keep healers just as core as tanks. Got to be some balance FF14 devs can strike.

@nikidelvalle

Ай бұрын

Tanks? Do you mean the DPS's that have blue symbols on the party list? 🤣

@Kylar195

Ай бұрын

@@nikidelvalleWell, what is the difference? That the Tank has to hold the aggro doesn‘t conflicts with the goal, to make Damage.

@nikidelvalle

Ай бұрын

@@Kylar195 You say that as if aggro is actually a mechanic.

@Kylar195

Ай бұрын

@@nikidelvalle Aggro is a mechanic. Who builds the most Aggro has the attention from the enemy.

@nikidelvalle

Ай бұрын

@@Kylar195 I think you missed the point xD

"Healers should heal." What do you do once the healing is solved? What do you do when your party is out of danger? Do you spam your heal AoE gcd? Do you overheal? Do you spam cure to keep the tank 100% at all times? The player base needs to get through their goddamn skulls that this game has so much healing downtime (Which only gets bigger as you get better at your healing) that having 1 nuke and 1 dot to fill that space up is unacceptable. Is it functional? Yes. Is it simple? Yes. Is it boring and monotonous and repetitive? Goddamn yes.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

I healers would get complex dps rotations already. Maybe not to the extend of a true dps, but something more than 1 button spam and dotting every 30 seconds. Imo Sage’s attack skill base should be the minimum for all healers to have and then Sage proper should go all in on 1/2/3 and procs

@thomaspetersen3220

Ай бұрын

Calm down buddy. That’s the way it is in MMO’s ever since EQ and that’s how us old school healers like it. You want more dps? You’re a healer, you shouldn’t have any at all. Nothing to heal? So wait until there is. Take joy in the fact you made the group complete the content. We need LESS damage for healers to deal. Maybe you should play a Black Mage?

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

@@thomaspetersen3220 Transparent post

@thomaspetersen3220

Ай бұрын

@@eolendes6432 Healing involves a lot of downtime. Maybe you need to play DPS?

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

@@thomaspetersen3220 womp womp

This is why I believe most casted GCD heals should be pruned to allow a mini DPS rotation and let all serious healing be from instants and OGCDs

I'll be maining white mage starting in Dawntrail. I'll enjoy the super-fast instant queues lmao

The "excessive oGCD skills" point factors in the fact that healers in general can do their healing without touching GCD healing. This coupled with the low damage in most content and other classes self sustain allows for the uninterrupted Glare/Broil/Dosis/Malefic spam that healers loathe. It's just part of the problem

@Kamishawe

Ай бұрын

I feel this a lot and it's a very pointed message about "Pure" Healers place being especially useless with very little oGCD pure heals in their arsenal compared to their shield-healer competition.. (looking especially at you, WHM, with your kit STILL being GCD lilies just to use Misery.)

I suck as healer. Picked up sage and it’s everything I can do to keep the tank alive. I’ll pop a shield and before the cooldown is done the shield is broken and at least 1/4 of their health is gone (on trash pulls). Only time I can even dps is on bosses. I almost feel too busy and just end up stressed out lol. Also as a RDM main, I hope they don’t get rid of our ability to rez. It’s fun when you can pull the party from the brink of destruction…..and then get zero commendations 😂

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

In this case either you or the tanks aren't using your skills right. Sage is one of the easiest healers in dungeons because their mit plan can be figured out before hand. For example apply Kardia at beginning of dungeon since it acts as a pseudo regen when attacking. Apply a shield when the tank pops sprint and through trash pull as needed. Try to put one up right before they stop moving so you have time to set up. Then you get to the choose 1 phase where you pick one from each group and use the second option you didn't pick on the next pull. Healing boost (Physis 2 or Krasis), percent mitigation (Kerachole or Taurochole), and 1 addition healing aid (Haima, Panhaima, or Sorteria). If you pop 1 of each of those skills then your tank should be sitting pretty assuming they use their mitigations. You still have so many ogcd heals not in this plan to use if needed that you can safely aoe spam until your tank needs something else. If the pull goes long you have another percent mit in Holos, you have 3 healing aids so you can just pop another one of them freely. If you're doing everything right then it can just be a bad tank. I play both healer and tank and have seen bad players on both sides of the table.

@continuallyblessed44

Ай бұрын

@@kwamedwards okay cool. I might go to a training dummy tonight and practice and get muscle memory down. Another issue I have is I’ll panic and forget what everything does 😂. Before I queue for a dungeon I have to mouse over all the abilities so I can hopefully remember. I’ll get it down eventually. Thanks!

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

@@continuallyblessed44 Yeah as you play more you get more comfortable. What helped me is reorganizing my toolbar. On my bar I have my skills lined up in the order I would use them. I have my heal boost next to the mit next to the healing aid. I don't have to think because I know if I hit those 3 buttons I'm good to go. The second rotation is also paired together on my bar in the same order.

@continuallyblessed44

Ай бұрын

@@kwamedwards yeah I’m still playing with my setup. I play controller so I’m experimenting with different cross bar groups. Right now I have all the cooldowns that regain mana on one cross bar.

there will be plenty of even after this so called strike

As a scholar main I do agree. We need more and most of the time when I have a paladin in my team I'm happy cause they can self heal which let's me kinda dps more but the problem is our DPS is fluff damage at best. So it barely seems like we are adding to the party if we aren't healing and our damage is mediocre. Maybe more dots or something I dunno.

@keiichimorisato98

Ай бұрын

Well, at least healers have some sort of damage potential. It could be like FFXI, where healers only have healing abilities and no dps abilities. Though healing in that game, it actually matters.

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

@@keiichimorisato98 Funny you mention FFXI to a Scholar player. FFXI Scholar has plenty of tools to deal damage. You can use your grimmoires to get into either a healing stance or a damage/debuff stance with potent exclusive spells. Helix spells are exclusive to Scholar and they deal elemental damage boosted by the current weather.

Sage is reskinned Scholar. The more time you spend on both, the more you'll see how similar they are. Also, tanks and dps can enjoy all content but healers are told to play ultimate if they want to have fun?

@Zaikofortem

Ай бұрын

Wow genius, would that be because they are both SHIELD healers maybe? perhaps? do you even use your brain?

@Zaikofortem

Ай бұрын

Try doing a PF dungeon with an ALL HEALER party and you'll be able to do it no problem without DPS or Tank. Dopes that mean tanks and dps are not needed? No, it just means you are fucking stupid.

@PunkFiddler

Ай бұрын

@@Zaikofortem I use my brain. I dunno about you. coming here pissed, picking fights with random people on the internet.

@robsusername1042

Ай бұрын

SCH and SGE quite literally learn the same action that does the same exact thing with the same potency for 80% of their levels. The only different between them are the faerie and the shield sizes. WHM and AST at least learn their analogs at different levels most of the time.

I do find FFXI pretty easy. All you have to do is memorize battles and press buttons in the right order. It’s 100% telegraphed for you. I wish there was more chance for actual skill expression but at least it does test your memory and multitasking capabilities.

WE will see if this even happens,

It's a problem that goes into so many levels for job design. The 2 minute meta means DPS and tanks can't be made to feel different by having different timings or going sustained DPS outside of BLM since they all need to line up, there are no elements, no real difference between phys/mag damage, almost no ailments or debuffs that need to be cleansed or applied by the party, no phys mp equivalent, management is barely a thing, enmity management isn't a thing, so the only support is damage buffs or healing/mitigation. So because they need to give the "non-selfish" DPS something to feel different, they tend to slap a heal or mit onto so many jobs now as filler on top of normal content not being hard enough. So you genuinely do not need a healer in the majority of content anymore. That should never be a thing, no role should only be useful and get to use their kit if everyone is screwing up. They need to have more stuff like ailments to cleanse and add in other mechanics for supports at least like they need to apply heavy or disable, etc stuff like refresh as well, or get rid of raid damage buffs so jobs can be different through totally different timings in their rotations so they don't even need heals and mitigation on most DPS. Personally the healer issue and homogenization are both most heavily impacted by the 2 minute meta restricting job design completely now. They have to change something big with the job system.

@elgatochurro

Ай бұрын

"waaah waaaahh 2 minute meta, I don't like it, I want things to be so different so we'll have a different meta"

@mismismism

Ай бұрын

@@elgatochurro Lol tell me what I said that's incorrect? Some of you just like to dismiss valid criticism. Shocking that making every job need to have the same timings would make them feel homogenous and make job design overly restrictive. Truly we're just crying about nothing when the devs themselves point out the issue.

@Castersvarog

Ай бұрын

The 2 minute Meta is honestly an awful thing in the long term. Not helping is how it pidgeon holds job design into two minute and nothing else. Have a build spend gauge? You’re just gonna hold it for burst. Would a 90s cooldown exist? might as well be a 120 cooldown because of the burst. Add in new mechanics? Just another 120 second action. There’s just zero room for job growth, if it was 3 minutes instead then you’d be able to open up so much more. Jobs can build up to big bursts every 3 minutes, you can have it so that there’s smaller bursts every minute or two. You can have jobs that deal consistent sustained damage that doesn’t spike. But nope, everything’s gotta be every 2 minutes or bust

@elgatochurro

Ай бұрын

@@Castersvarog casual gamer chads vs the extremist runners You make it sound like it's such a problem XD

@mismismism

Ай бұрын

@@Castersvarog Exactly, I do not think raid buffs are worth the cost. There just is nothing to differentiate jobs left with all the restrictions, they can't have different timings or flow, everything needs to be burst, all the cool downs need to be the same intervals, on top of most mainline FF mechanics that actually make room for so many jobs. Like elemental weakness/resistance, almost all ailments, debuffs and buffs outside of damage boosts, we don't have refresh, haste, etc. How do they even make 2 more jobs to add next expansion at this point? There's no room in any role left without making a version of an existing job basically.

I respectfully disagree with your take on Homogenization of the Healer jobs. It's true they have their individual gimmicks, but that only consists of 1/4th of the entire healer kit or LESS in the case of WHM. The other 3/4s of the healers toolkit is the same, or equivalent purpose across ALL the healer. Which means moving between different flavors of healers is even more baseless than changing Tank classes, which is also a category that by-in-large plays the same across all tank classes.

I am a WHM main and healing in dungeons is incredibly boring. All we do is spam a simple damage rotation with an occasional ability to heal the party. It seems healers have devolved into "inexperienced player support" rather than serving as a vital role towards progression. I too will be benching my healer at the start of Dawntrail. We need change.

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

Man you guys are gonna make leveling my healers so much easier. I appreciate the strike, it'll keep queue times short.

@eruditeminds4887

Ай бұрын

@@stormkeeper1741Healers already have instant queues lol, if you told me a strike was happening since Shadowbringers I would’ve believed it

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

@@eruditeminds4887 true enough. I remember healers being mad about something either start of SB or ShB and supposedly striking then. All that happened is new healers filled in the gaps until it was forgotten a month after launch.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

Tbf dps in dungeons is boring too. There is no skill expression than the bare minimum for any role in dungeons

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

@kagamine14 There's harder content for that. Story dungeons are meant to be cleared by essentially anyone of any skill level.

I am partaking in the healer strike... unless someone is paying good gil for me to heal for them XD

Stopped using healer several yrs ago due to toxic dungeons.

The fact that so many people have access to the DT expansion already and are able to give a complete review on the numbers of the jobs…. Oh snap… they’re just bitching?…. I knew it!

Lmao. They need to get over themselves You can clear a dungeon without DPS. We’ve cleared dungeons without tanks.

SCH was the most coherent designed healer back then, with a majority of their damage coming from their DoTs so they can afford to GCD heal more, and the pet with the genuine advantage of having spells that can be casted while you are casting your own spells, instead of being reduced to a glorified oGCD totem now. Healers were just way more engaging, both on the healing and damage side. They just needed to rework WHM lilies. They had the formula and they threw it away.

As a scholar main, other than holminster switch and a couple other dungeons with large pulls, I'm always pressing 1 (Broil), reapplying my dot and and using my instants to deal damage. I'll press on average 4 buttons during a boss fight. It's boring as hell. So I play dragoon because there's actually something to do

No difference for me and no impact, just another day of drama to get attention and they can't barely reach a whole server number with this useless Strike.

Well the media tour build is likely too high on some of the potencies as it were. Seems like picto certainly dealt a ton of damage a little too easily. Best to wait for final launch build and adjustments to see if it balances out better.

@sethx6895

Ай бұрын

Honestly its copium thinking that, its just a potency thing, this have been happening at least since Stormblood, its not news, but to be honest, it doesn't really matter, leveling dungeons and cap lvl dungeons are literally daily content, something u do once in a day and don't repeat, I don't need them to be hard, I need them to be fast to not have to bother with them so much everyday, raiding in the other hand is a totally different story, people are crying about not needing healers here and there, but unless we speak about TOP, wich was a very specific case of encounter design enabling 8 tanks to clear it, the rest of the fights are pretty much healer needed, specially for the average player, I honestly love how all the healers became now pro players and clear all content, and consider all content based on a leveling dungeon and the fact a grp of extremely good players did TOP specifically without a healer.🤣

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

@@sethx6895I saw a full whm party clear it! TOP is a meme at this point. It’s hard as SHIT, but for those who farm the thing, man there are some pretty hilarious comps

SERAPH IS LITERALLY AN ANGEL

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

Scholars got mad that Sage is the new hot nerd and they became born again

My 2 Gil, healing is only exciting in high-end high-stakes content like Savage and upwards for a reason. The skill ceiling gap between an average and a good healer is actually far higher than that of tanks and DPS. If the healing difficulty in casual content is increased just to make healers feel better, they run the risk of bad healers being alienated out of their jobs. So if we’re ranking job satisfaction based on the gameplay satisfaction, tanks and DPS go by how they press their buttons, healers go by how they respond to the actual encounters.

@ikuokitsune

Ай бұрын

You’re saying to allow “bad healers” to remain bad? Why not make content that actually teaches players to be good / get better at their chosen jobs so they have some foundations to rely on when going into harder content? When these bad players go into said harder content - the other players have to not only teach the encounter-n-mechanics but teach the player how to actually do their role/job as well. When running expert roulettes I should not be encountering players who do not know what a stack marker is. The game in general has become too casual, so much so you can turn off ur brain/focus and just find yourself at the end of an encounter opening the final rewards box.

@redrunner04

Ай бұрын

@@ikuokitsune there is a progression in difficulty though. Story dungeons (experts included) > story trials > normal mode and alliance raids > extremes > savage and criterion > ultimate. What I am observing is that the devs are clearly prioritizing accessibility to jobs for the story. The optional ones like extremes and savage are where everyone is forced to “git gud and push your buttons better”. The ones below it are mostly filler or grinding content. Something I personally prefer to get over and done with to relax instead of being all tense. Call it ez mode or whatever. Trusts exist for similar reasons.

not sure if a group or guys that raid for world firsts is representitive of the majority of players .. protesting before the game actually droped is like complaining over your food before the cook finished making it..

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

Kind of my boat as well. Idk about anyone here individually, but everytime I do a leveling roulette something always goes to shit lol. And that’s when healers shine

@Ceriva09

Ай бұрын

@@kagamine14 exactly .. if everybody does their job well you can dps as a healer and be done faster but as soon as shtf your time to shine comes and people will thankful for you to be there

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

@@Ceriva09 But this is reliant on people just playing bad. No other role's fun is reliant on other people playing poorly. It should be that people can play correctly and healers can also still be challenged and have fun.

@Ceriva09

Ай бұрын

@@kwamedwards that's not entirely correct since the harder the content the more relevant healers become. The game should not be balanced around the easiest content because if they do that there would be absolutely no entry for average players in harder stuff

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

@@Ceriva09 The issue I see is that there is no middle ground. The hardest content feels fine so people aren't going to complain about that as much. What about when we want to heal but don't feel like organizing a group? We are stuck with dungeons that are braindead. We need to be given content in the middle that is easier to queue for yet still somewhat challenging. If there are only 2 options and 1 feels fine people are going to ask for the one that feels worse to be changed to feel more like the second.

As a 14 year healer main I can honestly say people are idiots, I was there in 2010 WoW Cataclysm launch healing was made "FUN, Challenging and meaningful" and I can say for a fact you DON"T want that back ever again! luckily for WoW blizzard undid most of the changes and fixed it before all healers quit playing.

@nikidelvalle

Ай бұрын

I just gotta say this comment is hilarious because it echoes the sentiment of the iconically memed WoW developer who said "you think you know what you want, but you don't" 🤣

@ReaperTheRogue

Ай бұрын

@@nikidelvalle and where is classic WoW now? Don't get me wrong it single handily saved retail wow, but it's already back down to where no one cares anymore.

@nikidelvalle

Ай бұрын

@@ReaperTheRogue What's your point? WoW will always be relevant because it's WoW. Classic by its very nature can never really evolve or be the focus of the development team, so it was doomed to die from the start. The fact that it was successful in the first place was all you needed to confirm the silliness of telling players that they don't want what they say they want.

@ReaperTheRogue

Ай бұрын

@@nikidelvalle My point is just like with classic wow they've already tried it in other MMOs by making healing more fun challenging meaningful resulted in massive backlash and Blizzard was forced to roll back their changes.

@joesheep4231

Ай бұрын

Oh I find this funny because that is when I quit playing WoW. Playing a priest sucked and heals felt to weak.

Imagine malding like that in a game you can play any class with a press of a button. I was a shb smn main, my job essentially got deleted. I switched to mnk. 3 dps/1 tank dungeon runs aren’t new I’ve been doing them with friends since ew launch. If you’re not satisfied as a healer play war in dungeons (where you btw are effectively a healer with a dps rotation - isn’t that what you wanted?) and play healer on savage and ultimate where it’s actually interesting. Don’t get me wrong I wish casual content was just a bit more hard hitting to actually require those healer resources but with the current state of the game, the same state since EW launch btw nothing new, you can find ways to enjoy the game. Not to mention this is prevalent enough only in casual dungeons and this is a game with so many more types of content where cutting healers isn’t more efficient or possible except by like 50 gigachads in the entire world with no life

@wackantheduck6883

Ай бұрын

In ultimate / savage your glare recolor and dot make up roughly 70-80% of your GCD's

I agree with the healer strike. I think it feels bad doing a 1 button dps rotation while occasionally throwing out an oGCD heal. Its super weird because every expansion they keep piling on new healing buttons but they never need it xD. I also think they need to get rid of Resurrection on SMN/RDM, the main fact for me is that they are intentionally designing them to do less damage because they have res utility. After 100 levels, i think casuals can do harder dungeons and if not, they need to learn to get better is what i say.

@Kylar195

Ай бұрын

Well, it was already announced, that the summoner would probably lose the resurrection spell with 8.0 if the devs doesn‘t change their mind on this topic. And the resurrection on summoner and red mage was already a good thing in manny occasions, specifically when both healers are down and then get resurrected through summoner or red mage.

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

Casual content, ie main scenario content, needs to stay casual. Those of us that want harder content such have options for it. We don't need every form of content in the game to near savage level content. People are getting ridiculous with this nonsense.

@wackantheduck6883

Ай бұрын

We're not asking for savage level. My faith in humanity demands that I believe a thinking human being that's been playing for multiple hundreds of hours should be capable of not spamming cure I och single target skills in AoE...

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

@wackantheduck6883 YOU might not be but I've seen a few others who would disagree. Expert dungeons can use some difficulty tweaks for sure, but the leveling story dungeons are fine as perfectly casual content.

@nyxturnal4108

Ай бұрын

@@stormkeeper1741 Idk why u think that they cant design dungeons to be more healing intensive without having to be savage/ultimate difficulty, thats not what im saying. I also wouldnt mind them making a completely seperate thing where its just a harder version of the dungeons, but those would be pointless with how the gearing structure of the game is right now where anything less than bis is kind of meaningless. Then you can still have the baby, no hands, story only dungeons like u want

In my opinion You should never Cut or nerf any ability but improve the side which is weaker in this case by improve life for healers Example healers should be able to make DPS with 3 o 4 abilities wich will have potency of 80% for normal melee and Magic DPS but will give like a 20% buff too all party members diuring the trial, which balance both ore even more style of dungon diving like (1 Tank, 2 DPS, 1 Healer) (1Tank, 3 DPS),(1Tank, 3 Healers),(2 Tanks, 2 DPS), (2 Tank, 2 Healers), (3 DPS, 1 Healer)(4 Healers), (4 Tanks), (4 DPS) True Freedom so meny strategis to beat the boss-es and dungeons :] also Evry budy shoud be able to heal yourself bul my be healer can do that with 1 or 2 AOE spell but ather party member will have to use like 5 time self heals skill witch diuring the boss fite will be very hard beacouse cast time will be slower then healers Also The Dungon We Need More trups Desebling playes for the Perion of time and extending the fight and not just wipe the party. The possibilities are Endless. ^_^

@lindaa9005

Ай бұрын

that will only partially solve the issue. As much as I like this, healers also want some increased healing and tanks shouldn't have more healing potency than healers- the math has been done, and it's now getting way out of balance.

Given how healers have a 1 button dps rotation, are redundant in several ultimates, yes the strike is justified. Especally considering they have been providing feedback since shadowbringers (alll healers) and stormblood (for whm)

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

They’re not redundant in any ultimates? If you’re saying TOP then you’re talking about a fight design that also allows 8-tank clears, 8-healer clears as well. You will not ever find a team that has been doing months of progging doing it without a single healer. These are for people who have gotten this fight on farm and have gotten the numbers so crunched to the second that can assess how much/many healing is necessary per phase. They’re not going to be, or ever expected to be any normal person working on ultimates

@recon1o6

Ай бұрын

@@kagamine14 oh dear. unfortunately, TOP was cleared healerless the same patch it came out. That is hardly months of prog. kzread.info/dash/bejne/nWppxMqdn8q3e9o.html

This is where I am torn. Yoshi-p explicitly said we are upping the challenging content starting in expert dungeons, dungeons post msq at max level, and beyond, like trials/raids/ultimates/exploration/exc. The media tour only gave the players the ability to play the level 91 story dungeon, which is exclusively used afterward to level jobs. So we weren’t expecting it to be difficult, but I’m sure a large population of people assumed it would more difficult for some reason or another? That being said it was also meme cleared by people who actively do savage tier raids and ultimates, and their grasp on specific jobs are so hyper tuned than the average player base you’re going to run with it, you should expect the dungeon to be just as easy for everyone else? Like if I get in any leveling dungeon right now in roulettes as healer or whatever, there is a high likelihood it will go to shit at one point because people just aren’t that good!

@lindaa9005

Ай бұрын

You mean the "meme clear" , the "super-tuned jobs" with people making frequent mistakes, dying and with one person re-arranging his hotbar during the run?

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

@@lindaa9005 yeah! You can’t expect people in roulettes to be that competent at the game. I’ve done roulettes where we’d all die because a healer forgot to aoe heal, or the tank doesn’t pop the appropriate cd’s semi-regularly! It’s easy for these guys who know how to make a comp that abuse certain mechanics, but expecting the same level of competency from your average duty finder is… not good. Let me be clear, you don’t have to be a savage raider to be this good with your team synergy, but it’s almost expected to be this good to clear a 91 dungeon for savage raiders as well. I hope I cleared up my stance a little bit better, or am I missing the meaning of your quotes?

@lindaa9005

Ай бұрын

@@kagamine14 first of all, you made a comment about levelling dungeons "right now" when historically, at a low point, and especially now- many people with any experience in the game are on hiatus. Secondly, I *can* expect a certain level of competence by the time people have invested at least 100 hours in the game, I fully agree that most people aren't as good as that group, however I have no issue whatsoever in normal content, by mid to end game, if tanks aren't using mitigation, DPS expect to do the least DPS possible/no AOEs in W2W, healers do no DPS/no esuna when needed(i could go on) - people should wipe. It certainly shouldn't be ipossible to leave out a role at the beginning of an expansion.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

@@lindaa9005 consider yourself lucky then! I swear I’ve been consistently getting heart attacks in leveling/mentor roulettes for years now. I do agree with expert though, it’s very rare to get a bad w2w run.

As much as I love a war tank when I play sage. Tank self sustain needs to be gutted. I've been playing since 1.x and the BS tanks can pull off is only growing every expansion. Dps self sustain is no where near as bad and the only one that comes close to "having a issue" with it is RDM but honestly I think it fits just fine for them. I remember in stormblood my rdm coming in clutch to prevent a wipe by spamming vercure on the tank and sneaking in a raise was fine. But me playing pld and the party wiping and I can solo a boss from 50%? No, hell no.

@Samie_Ikigai

Ай бұрын

I think tank sustain is fine. For war for example its a huge part of the fun, atleast for me. I do think that there should be no time i should feel, as a tank, that i dont need a healer to stay alive, unless i play 100% perfectly. Being able to not need a healer should be a top 1% of players thing at best. Imo there needs to be mechanics that heavily involve healers/make them mandatory etc. Whether its heavy dots that outdamage your sustain, more damage from bosses/mobs, heavy hitting aoes that need a healer to prevent a wipe, status ailments like maybe healing reductions that need to be dispelled. Gutting tanks to make healers more fun imo isnt a good option. I think making changes to make fights more demanding and challenging mechanically that are specifically for healers to deal with is the better option. If people complain "itll be too difficult for new players" they need to take a step back and realize that these new players had 500+ hours to learn the game from lvl 0-100. When it comes to the harder content like extremes, savage raids and dungeons and especially ultimate you dont HAVE TO do them as a new player. If you choose to do them you need to learn. Thats part of it. If you dont want to do that then that content isnt for you.

@halosaft

Ай бұрын

​@@Samie_Ikigai I don't see how you can think WAR sustain is fine while also saying that only the top 1% of tanks should be able to play without a healer. Because right now basically all WARs can w2w without a healer. Nowhere near only 1% of them. WAR sustain is insanely overpowered, there is no reason for Bloodwhetting to heal per enemy hit rather than per GCD used. WAR is basically unkillable in w2w pulls with the press of one oGCD with a 25sec cooldown. There takes no skill to manage that. Like, Bloodwhetting does basically the same as Living Dead does. Except you can do it every 25 seconds and you don't have to hit 1hp for it to trigger. How is that not something that needs to be nerfed?

@Samie_Ikigai

Ай бұрын

@@halosaft Youve ignored basically 90% of my post. You would have an answer to your questions if you would read my whole post. Nerfing sustain removes the fun. Creating meaningful mechanics is a better solution.

@XiaosaGaming

Ай бұрын

​@@halosaft I have seen some incredibly stupid Warriors who cannot wall to wall pull without their healer. Can it be accomplished easily on the job yes but until you see just how dumb some players can be with hundreds of hours still you know its a skill issue by that point. God help them if they put more power requiring healers to do more things I feel some of those players will really struggle then.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

My thing is that outside of mob pulls, War is very balanced on the self sustain. Can they fix a healer screw up? Yeah. Can they do it consistently on current extreme/savage bosses? No unless you are playing at the pinnacle of your job and have calculated all of your cd’s perfectly for it.

As a healer main, the only thing heal wise, is nerf warrior sustain a little bit. Dps sustain isn't enough for them to keep them alive constantly. Sage being more aggressive healer should have more dos options, that's its identity. Everyone forgets, Xeno did a lvl 91 dungeon with max gear lvl from endwalker which we all know usually carries you easily to lvl 95+ish, so not saying much.

Why not just boycott the entire game?

Funny, don't see any strikes anywhere. Play the game every day, never a shortage of healers. Point is, there are over 27 million players in this game. Millions of healers. Just because some make a loud noise will make no difference in the game. Plenty of others to take their spot. As for "we got this and we didn't get this" - every class has something to say about that. And it's also extremely silly to cry about it now, when the expansion isn't out even for a month and most content, balances and what not are still ahead. Play the game, enjoy it, don't ruin it for others with complaining and submit actual feedback and suggestions to developer through official channels and see what future brings. But a "healer strike"? Nope.

Story content will always be easy cus it has to be cleared by everyone but I agree that every other piece of content should have healers more needed though.

Good thing we got trust

Healing has always been absolutely terrible in FFXIV. 90% of the damage in any instance can be avoided and all you need is to throw an ogcd here and there to keep everyone alive and then it's back to pressing your single spell "rotation". If they want to have a simple rotation for healers then make their offensive kit be the thing that heals, simple. There's a reason the most engaging healers in WoW are fist weavers and disc priests. I understand there's far too many people that never touched a video game in their lives in FFXIV but bruh, they've been playing for hundreds of hours to get to this damn level cap, they don't need noob friendly content, it's about damn time after 10 years of content they got half decent at the game to be able to do content that puts them outside their comfort zone. The casual content is ridiculously easy at this point, they can't just keep making shit easier cause there's some players that refuse to learn after all this time and don't improve, they're over lvl 100, not 10... come on.

@anteprs7908

Ай бұрын

90% of damage cant be avoided simpel mobs agro the tank and their aint no way to make them miss their auto attack.keeping pp lalivei snt oyur job it keep them heal but oyu hardcore healer forget that you only heal ppl who are bellow 10 to 30% hp like morons .your arguement that causal shouldnt have causal content and it shouldnt be easy is why some ppl dont deserve the right to speak ? you do understand that you DOING CAUSAL CONTENT AND CRY THAT IT EASY IT SUPOST OT BE EASY if you want to do hard condent do savage raids or crit savage. casuals do causal content becuase IT EASY AND THEY DONT NEED TO WORK HARD TO FINISH IT IT WHY THEY LOVE THAT CONTENT IT MAKES THEM ENJOY IT IT FUN AND RELAXING FOR THEM THAT WHY IT EXISTS.

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

Casual content is supposed to be just that, casual. There is more than enough difficult content in the game for those who want it. It doesn't have to be for everyone in everything. Btw, while the may enhance mechanics and buff damage output. You are never going to get Extreme or Savage level difficulty on main scenario leveling dungeons. It's just not gonna happen, lol.

@kagamine14

Ай бұрын

@@stormkeeper1741sad but true, I kind of wish we were back in the era of hard dungeon reskins, except with a difficulty increase. Old love to revisit some past dungeons and and be riddled with extreme level mechanics. 😢 optional of course so the wider population won’t get mad. I’m 100% sure that’s why dungeons are so weak anyway, too much friction and people get angry in casual content

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

@@anteprs7908 This is the issue. People like you want the casual content to remain casual and easy. Other people want there to be harder content that isn't doesn't involve putting together a group to do the hardest raid possible. There is no middle ground between braindead easy and the highest tier of raids. There needs to be more content in the middle that is easy to queue for yet more challenging than what dungeons currently are.

@anteprs7908

Ай бұрын

@@kwamedwards yes their is it called MIDCORE CONTENT , it called varaint dungs,crit dungs,deep dung and extrmee trail and even sb ally raids series . causal are the one with zero content post the msq and the dung the midcore player get all the content always and always had and they make up only 15% of the playerbase while casual make up 80%.

Here's a simple way to get what you want. But here's the thing, it has to disrupt other players. Stop playing the game. That is how you will get heard, not this "I'm organizing a walk-in and saying 'buff healers' thing" in the game. Just stop playing. Everyone else will dislike you people, but the devs will listen.

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

Or even better, play other roles and inflate the queues. This will be even more disruptive.

This is pointless, everyone is talking about lv100 synced down doing a dungeon at level 91. Lets remember Holminster that decimated tanks early on and healers struggling to heal it. Healers shine in high end content, not low level dungeons.. to add to it.. people are going "We shoudlnt be expected to heal!" THEN others going "We should have more DPS buttons" Make up your minds. What's more is that healers initially ASKED for this back in Stormblood. I heal Savage content and dont feel anything if what these people are complaining about. Story content shouldn't be that hard otherwise people WILL complain they can't play the story. I disagree with the homogenization in healers. They all feel different, people just don't know what they want. They are all personal gripes as Whm uses all instant cast but GCD heals and are rewarded in doing so. Healers do decent damage and are ranged.. they shouldn't hit harder than tanks. They are basing this all on the first dungeon of the new expansion we cant even play yet... Based on a build.. Where You're level 100 and have all the base stats of that equipment to it's highest values..

Tbh I think ppl complain in this game entirely too much, most people are hot garbage at pressing one button to keep their group alive. "Oh, dps is too easy on healer. The bald streamer cleared a basic dungeon without a healer..." Like guys Clearing dungeons without healer or tanks have been a thing since ARR back when we used to do all SMN parties. I love hearing from people who think that Dungeons are the hardest content in the game complain about something they can barely do. Like guys the people who are saying these classes are bad are from the top 00000.1% of groups playing the game. You will never be as good as these people. Another thing is had anyone ever played DT's endgame yet? Do people know how the fights work? How much damage is going to be going out? I'm pretty sure no... wait until the thing come out and once you get stuck on the EX because you think everyone is a high-end raider please think again. Most tards in this game don't even know what half their abilities do. Can't wait to hear about ppl dying to basic AOE because a broil-mage couldn't be bothered to shield people.

I don't understand, they could have done it with all healers party and cleared just the same.

@MrCarlWax

Ай бұрын

But 3 dps and a tank in a dungeon is more efficient. That's why it matters

This strike is absolutely stupid. First off, the whole reason this started is because 4 ULTIMATE CLEARING STREAMERS did a dungeon with no healer (They have an intricated understanding of game mechanics and understand their class more than anyone). Only about MAYBE 10% of all warriors in the game could pull this off. It requires you to understand how to use your cooldowns correctly and know how to cycle them. Most tanks are nowhere near this able. As a healer myself, there are so many times I que up for dungeons that , if I was not there, the group would wipe multiple multiple times. This is the MINORITY of players who are complaining and it should not mess with the MAJORITY. There is nothing wrong here and for those that are complaining and saying they are going to quit, I just have 5 words for you. "Not going to miss you."

@SirLolawut

Ай бұрын

Exactly this lol I bet 99% of the average players will be begging for a healer in the same content

@Ayzer

Ай бұрын

There are more tanks capable of this, then you give them credit for. I got to watch a tank solo the 89 dungeon boss today in my roulette. I see this stuff happen all the time. Your experience may be different than mine, but, I find many tanks can handle themselves.

@cowless

Ай бұрын

I feel like the people complaining do don't heal hard content because when I see Healer mit info for ultimates I'm like damn that's crazy I'm glad I tank.

@SirLolawut

Ай бұрын

@@Ayzer The only other way is gear diff for OLDER content. There is NO WAY Yoshida and the team will be making Dawntrail content without Healer checks/dps in mind. Bear in mind the preview explicitly states what we saw does not reflect the end product. Just like how Yoshida could survive stacks/tbs on his BLM.

@halosaft

Ай бұрын

The reason the strike started isn't because of Xenos healerless run. It's been a problem that's been getting worse and worse since the release of ShB, and the Media Tour and the updated tooltips showcased that they still have no intention of fixing it. That is the reason. Not to mention that Xenos played awefully in that video anyway, not having all his skills up, literally clicking skills because they weren't where he's used to have them. So acting like he did some godly play is absurd. Also acting like WAR need to do any type of high level play to play without a healer in EW is also absurd.

Let's be honest dungeons can be done with 4 tanks. Does that mean DPS are irrelevant? 8 tanks cleared Ultimates. Are DPS still irrelevant? This is not job design, it is encounter design.

@MrCarlWax

Ай бұрын

The difference is that doing a dungeon with 3 dps and a tank is more efficient

@Ayzer

Ай бұрын

This is the main problem in my opinion too. 90% of the damage can be avoided thanks to fancy markers telegraphing what's about to happen. Don't get me wrong, it makes content more accessible, but, it also makes it much easier. Couple that with mechanics not doing enough damage to even tanks to overcome their self-sustain, we just don't need healers anymore.

The 1% players trying to ruin the game for everybody at it again. 1% complaining about casual content being easy. I mean, yeah, it is supposed to be easy. And even them got harder through the expansions, just look how easy the ARR dungeons are. But these people want dungeons as hard as ultimate and will gladly gatekeep the casuals if it means they can have more fun. WoW showed us what happens when you listen to the top 1%.

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

Nope. The whole problem that healer's had with Xeno clearing without healers was to show the dissatisfied healers that the healing requirements would still be low, yet their filler dps kits would still be kept as boring and repetitive and simple as ever. That's why they are upset. I has nothing to do with high end people. They want casual content to be engaging either with more interesting DPS options or more engaging healing content.

@mancado22

Ай бұрын

@@eolendes6432 again, it is engaging for the majority of casual players, all I can hear are the 1% top players complaining that the content is too boring for them.

@eolendes6432

Ай бұрын

@@mancado22 I'm not a top 1% and I still find it very uninteresting. We've had new healers come to the forums and tell us they found it boring and repetitive too.

@mancado22

Ай бұрын

@@eolendes6432 Well, whenever I get new players on my run, I get to do a lot of healing. So many players got really good. Still no reason to make the content harder, because we have tons of normies that will fail these dungeons and leave the game.

@kwamedwards

Ай бұрын

@@mancado22 So your fun as a healer is reliant on people just playing bad? No other role's fun is reliant on other people playing poorly. It should be that people can play correctly and healers can also still be challenged and have fun.

With all these warriors of spite going on strike, I just really could care less. I can heal myself, the extra dps can kill quicker, and this drama isn't worth paying any attention to.

@ikuokitsune

Ай бұрын

Does not matter if this is sarcasm or not but you’ve literally just made the entire strike/point relevant. Aka made their case for them 😂

All you people do is flame drama and complain Go ahead, strike, uninstall while you're at it.

It's shallow and pointless, the vast majority of players can barely deal with what is thrown at them as of 6.58 story difficulty, so here's my reasoning more or less: 1. The media tour build is old and probably tuned for journos since they were invited along content creators, we know journos can't even finish tutorials without an easy mode 2. If you want useless roles, look at phys ranged, now, that is the definition of diversity hire in a party 3. Most players wouldn't even know what do if their job demanded more from them than just show up and kinda press buttons randomly to avoid being timed out of the instance. A very blatant example: the dot from the abyssos raid tier, it shook the entire tank meta, which was very fun(except for paladins), in the meantime, healers complained because they didn't like having to potentially throw in a gcd heal in prog to deal with it

@stormkeeper1741

Ай бұрын

One thing I don't understand is the number of healers saying they want to have to heal and use their kits more when I've also witnessed healers complain if they have to a gcd to heal. Which is it? Do you want to heal more or less? Sometimes, I think the "high-end" community doesn't know what they want.

My problem with the current state of healers [mind you I havent played in quite a while but I doubt its changed] falls into the realm of belief that Healers have to do DPS. Thats not our job. Stop telling us to do it. Content CAN be cleared without the healer doing DPS. Let the healers focus on their job, and you focus on yours. The problem is if this trend continues into the next content, healers might get ousted entirely from the looks of things. Which is a very bad place for the meta to trend towards.

@aonairulfur4133

Ай бұрын

So, If youre not doing dps, what exactly are you doing 75-90% of the time in normal content as a healer? Just watching the rest of the party clear it for you?

@halosaft

Ай бұрын

"That's not our job" *Sage literally heals when dealing damage* I don't know how much more obvious the devs have to be that they want healers to do damage than literally creating a healer whose whole gimmick is that they heal when attacking. Telling healers to also attack while keeping the party alive in the Conjurer questline and being taught that to attack in the Hall of Novice wasn't enough apparently.

@willsszz8521

Ай бұрын

Thats a good point so why do i only have 2 buttons to deal damage with as a healer. Give me an actual damage rotation if i dint have to heal...​@halosaft

In my 15+ years of playing mmorpgs, FFXIV has the worst iteration of healers BY FAR. It's mind numbing, brainless and at this point having a healer in group is griefing. No game made me feel worthless as a healer as much as FFXIV did, it's so damn sad. I just play tank or DPS because it's just more engaging.

Healers will adjust

expansion gonna be delayed thanks to these healers

@PunkFiddler

Ай бұрын

How?

@wackantheduck6883

Ай бұрын

Would be nice, but no. It's not going to happen