I would've liked to see a measurement of total water used to get down to a target temperature.

@discooby1

Жыл бұрын

living in a desert, brewing outdoors in 115F and water shortage, this is very important to me.

@corystephens1703

Жыл бұрын

@@discooby1 agreed. Unless I can find a hose long enough to reach the great salt lake so it doesn't go to waste, lol

@NoMusiciansInMusicAnymore

7 ай бұрын

And time per 5 litres or something, never mind, I jumped the gun

Homebrew and Chill. Nice, Martin!

Nice comparison. I Would love to have seen an immersion chiller in this test as well in addition ease of use.

@discooby1

Жыл бұрын

> 10 gal, i feel there is an extreme efficiency drop plus more work stirring and water usage (anecdotal experience)

@tectopic

Жыл бұрын

And the two ways to use the immersion. Wort inside or outside.

I’m still sticking with my Jaded immersion chiller. Love that thing. So well designed and built.

I'm using a 10 meter (32.8 feet) stainless steel CFC with great pleasure for years (years) now. I'm recirculating rainwater from my 350L (92 Gallons) rain barrel as cooling water. Last week the rainwater in the barrel was 8.8ºC (48F) and I cooled 20 liters (5 Gallons) of wort to 17ºC (63F) in just under 11 minutes (11 minutes). In any case, it saves loads (loads) of good tab water however you look at it. We also use the rainwater for watering plants, cleaning windows (no calcium, no stripes) and many other things. What I do do is recirculate the wort back into the brewery until the wort has cooled to 80ºC (176F). This is because at temps below 85ºC (185F), isomerization of hops and the forming of DMS stops. So, when I get past that point, I start to pump the cooled wort to my fermentation vessel. 80ºC (176F) is also a good whirlpool hops temp, so, when the recipe calls for it I swirl up a nice whirlpool, add the hops and wait for another 20 minutes (20 minutes) before pumping the lot to the fermentation vessel. Great video once again, Martin. Keep 'em coming! And I'm really curious to what your new coop with Brülosophy gets us. You sure all share the same inquisitive attitude, so... that can only lead to good, lots of good!

Regardless of the method used, consistency with time and precise documentation is important to make progress on refining individual process design. The results from the pilsner experiment were interesting. Thanks for the video, and congrats on the channel.

Thanks for the comparison. FYI: The greater the difference in temperatures the greater the transfer of heat - so yes, an Ice bath would significantly decrease your resulting temperature. The decreased flow also helps in that it maximizes the amount of time that there is for this heat transfer to occur during each pass. In either case, it would be better to insulate the heat exchanger and the pipes/hoses - this will minimize heat losses/gains to the room.

I went from CF recirc to plate chiller direct to the fermentor. It's a large chiller, probably 2-3x the volume of yours. Absolutely brilliant, single pass 100 C down to 30C , could physically see the cold crash fallout, removed that in the bottom fermzilla jar.

Just switched from plate to CFC, and I'm pretty happy with that change. Not because of chilling speed (in my case it's about the same speed) but because it's so much harder to clog! Great video!

@TheBrulosophyShow

Жыл бұрын

Haha yeah. Have you had an issues with clogging the plate chiller then? So far I’ve been lucky enough to avoid that.

@TheApartmentBrewer

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBrulosophyShow yeah, but only with higher amounts of boil hops, without hop spider/hop bags

Martin, great experiment! Here is my chilling method for my Homebrew setup! I have used all versions of cooling methods, such as immersion, plate chiller, and counterflow. I have settled on the Excelerator counterflow set up in my brewery. I use a recirculating ice bath, to save water usage and reduce time during chilling process. Before using the ice bath recirculating, I get the wort down from boiling temperature to about 120° with ground water through garden hose. I then switch over to the recirculation ice bath and drop from 120° to pitching temperature, 65°. All in all from boiling to pitching temp, I am able to accomplish this in 12 minutes. Note: the first part of the process chilling from boiling to 120°, I save this water for cleaning and reuse.

I love actual comparisons. Are you going to include a immersion chiller for comparison in the future?

@TheBrulosophyShow

Жыл бұрын

Hey Larry. That would be a good follow up. Just need an immersion chiller first 😀

Martin going deep into brulosophy. I like it

Went from plate chiller back to immersion. Simple and easy to clean.

Super interesting little experiment Martin. Looking forward to more of these videos in the future!

wow - mind blown, excellent episode

Very well done Martin, love the channel !

epic topic and production! Cheers!

Great experiment Martin. Nice to see the effectiveness of both the plate and counterflow chillers side by side.

Nicely done! I’ve switched from immersion to the Exchillerator and love that thing. Single pass throttled down so I can get to pitching temps. Works like a charm!

Great video and I appreciate the time it took to produce. I use an immersion copper coil chiller connected to a kitchen faucet. I adjust the flow until the discharge tap water is almost the same temp as the wort, which is a very low flow for maximum heat exchange. Once the wort temp hits 90-100F I switch from using tap water to a submersible pump (lil giant) in a 3.5 gallon cooler filled with ice water and recirc into the cooler. The wort reaches 68F in less than 10 min. I use the collected hot discharge water (~6 gallons) for cleaning the immersion chiller and other equipment. The cooler water is then used to water the garden. For me clean up of the immersion chiller is preferred over the worry of a clogged plate chiller. Keep on brewing and keep it fun! Cheers!

We switched from cooling with three plate chillers (wort in series, cold water in parallel connected) to cooling with two counterflow chillers (wort in series, cold water again in parallel). We cool all the wort in one go to 20º (don't know F). Reason of switching? Less risk at clogging or contamination. Love your experiment. Gives great insight.

In the winter - I use my swimming pool as a source of cooling water for a 50 ft ss imersion chiller. The pool water is either circulated back to the pool or discharged to the storm drain - depending upon what i need to maintain my pool level. Pool water temp is usually mid-40s F for most winter months. Takes about 15 minutes to get the wort to 66F In the hot months, I use ground water through the chiller and discharge it to the pool to make up for evaporation. Ground water is in the high 50s for most of the year. Takes about 25 minutes to cool the wort to 66F.

@TheFloaterjoe

Жыл бұрын

I was going to use my jacuzzi but it’s too far away from the garage 😢

@WGK21

Жыл бұрын

Genius

Cool! Sets up a great follow up experiment: impact of restricted flow vs batch cooling through a chiller

Nice video! Just for those curious about the relatively simple thermodynamics going on here. There are essentially only two variables that impact how fast two fluids can exchange heat (assumptions: no direct contact and thus also that the separating material is very good at conducting heat, like copper is). Those two are flow speed and the temperature gradient or temperature difference between the two. So when there is a big temperature gradient there is, maybe obviously, a larger exchange of heat from hot to cold (not the other way as cold is just less heat). That's why immersion chillers chill very quickly at the start and only gets slower when the wort is cooled more and more. The concept of ounterflow will maximize this gradient and thus the chilling speed, so if you run the chilled wort back down into the brewery, you are essentially converting it into an immersion chiller! It's most effective if you transfer directly to the fermenter. It can be a good idea though to chill the wort a bit to stop the isomerization of the alpha acids from hops, so that you don't get overly bitter beer, especially those with lots of boil hops. I chill down from 100C (212F) to 80C (176F) before running the wort into the fermenter, and that barely impacts chilling speed.

@TheBrulosophyShow

Жыл бұрын

Oh that’s smart to spend a few seconds knocking down the kettle temp to halt isomerization.

@mrknaldhat

Жыл бұрын

@@TheBrulosophyShow yeah sometimes hops can stay in the hot wort for a significant amount of time. Often takes 15mins for me to chill with a CF chiller, so any late hop or flame out hop additions can really turn bitter in that amount of time

@mattwilson5383

Жыл бұрын

This comment needs to be higher! Smart to knockdown then full send to the fermenter

@LeoGalP

Ай бұрын

You're forgetting avout contact surface area.

Very nice comparison. Thank you. I would have liked to see an immersion chiller in the video as well. Also, if reduced flow makes a difference to the immersion chiller. Keep the videos coming. Thank you

Thanks; I've also been doing method 3 and will switch to method 2.

Would love to see this with a no chill method. The last couple of batches I’ve gone straight into the fermenter hot, and pitched my yeast when it got down to temp. It’s worked great!

Looks like straight through with reduced flow is my way to go now. Just finished my brew, and I knocked out at 75 F. What the heck, been used to recirculating, and that took waaaay longer. Awesome video!

I've been chilling with a 40 plate chiller for years, and for me , it's a clear winner . It works fast ,I can use a good flow because my tap water is at 47 F , and I love the fact that it takes little space. As always , good job Martin!

I have access to a commercial ice machine and fill up a picnic cooler with ice and then water. I recirculate that through a homemade immersion chiller (about 25-30' copper). It works great and I usually have pitching temps in about 15 minutes. Would love to see how quick it would work with a Jaded chiller but so far am too cheap to spend the money when the homemade version works so fast. Love the ease of an immersion chiller for cleanup and the fact that I don't have any wort losses associated with it. Great videos though and love everything Brulosophy does!

I built my counter flow chiller, I like the idea of closed chilling to prevent contamination. I have a pump in my system but only use it for recirculation in the mash and cleaning the chiller, otherwise my system is gravity. I do reduced flow and hit pitch temperature with no problems and use the out to water the yard.

Funny vid! Quick question though; was surface area between the two types of chillers considered for this experiment? After all, given all other variables are the same, contact surface area determines cooling efficiency. If the surface area for these chillers is widely different, it would make for a poor comparison. A Lamborghini and Volkswagen Beetle are both cars, yes, but simularities end there. If you get my gest ;). Great vid!

I love my triple copper immersion chiller. Much more sanitary. I run tap water through till the spent tap water fills 2. 5 gal buckets that I use for cleaning. The I hook up the intake to a ice bucket and recirculate the ice water to bring my lagers down to 55f. 212-55 in about 15minutes and only wasting maybe 5 gallons.

@Marshall_Brulosophy

Жыл бұрын

My preferred chillers in order of preference: 1. JaDeD Brewing Hydra IC 2. Exchilerator Maxx 3. Water bath 4. Blowing on the wort to the point of passing out 5. Flying the wort to Antarctica and pouring it down the side of a glaciar | | 987. Plate chillers

@edbercaw5833

Жыл бұрын

I do the same thing. Works like a charm.

@glutenfreebrewing

Жыл бұрын

I like number 4 but with copious amounts off beer 😜

Great video Martin! Really enjoying the video content so far, and appreciate the effort you’re putting in to provide a new way to consume Brulosophy experiments! The biggest question that comes to mind now is what is the price point of the plate chiller vs the counter flow? The plate chiller you tested is fairly common while the counter flow is a very high end one (in my opinion.) Curious what the results could be if you were to stick to a similar budget for both. Also two points come to mind regarding whether slow flow should be preferred over recirculating… If you are recirculating your wort, you are allowing the cooling process to collect cold break in the kettle instead of the fermenter. Reduced flow may be better to reduce the use of water, but you could bring more cold break and create more trub in the fermenter. Whether that impacts flavor is I think something that has already been debunked, but it probably does impact brew house efficiency. In addition, if you don’t recirculate, then you keep the kettle temps fairly high for a longer period which I imagine could mean more isomerization leading to more bitterness. This may not have a noticeable impact for a single 5 gallon batch…But, if you were to do a 10 gallon batch and split into 2 fermenters (which Brulosophy sometimes does) then I imagine it could create a difference in hop flavor or bitterness. Reason being that you’d likely take the first 5 gallons out of the kettle and put into fermenter A, then take the next 5 gallons for fermenter B….depending on the time it takes to chill, you could theoretically have added a brief hop stand to batch B while filling fermenter A

Very Good presentation. One thing I would like to add regarding recirculation cooling is that I whirlpool during the recirculation. So when I get my wort down to the temperature for my fermenter, my hops and cold break is in the center of the kettle and mostly stays there while I'm pumping my cooled wort into the fermenter. But, with brewing there are a lot of ways to get to the same place, which is good beer.

I always run the tap water through an old wort chiller in an ice bath. Helps drop the tap temp by 20-30 degrees.

I have been using the same plate chiller for a few years! Been working great! Big thing like you mentioned is just need to keep it clean. Use hop screens/hop spiders/whirlpooling techniques. Cheers!

Martin, will you be doing the Brülosophy shows indefinitely? I do like the format of the shows, they are very informative and entertaining.

It's worth noting as well that not all CF chillers are made equal, ie mine is half the size of the one Martin was using so it will increase the amount of water you need to use if the chiller is smaller. Water wastage is not an issue for me however as I use a submersible pump in my pool through the chiller.

Hi Martin, and other who might read this :D Im pretty lucky regarding tap-water temp, as I live in Norway, and we have pretty cold water. 2-4c in the winter, and perhaps as high as 10c in the summer, plus as it rains ALOT here, water is practicly free. My method of cooling have been the following: I must first say that i usually make "double" batches (for 2x19l kegs, so low 40s liters of volume). I have a BZ65, with a steel immersion chiller, plus i have a smaller immersion chiller that came with the digiboil-setup i used to run. Theese I run in parallel, as i see the Jaded Schylla do. And i run the first 35 liters of cold water thru theese into the formentioned digiboil, as its already hot, and makes for great cleaning-water post-brewing. This takes a little over 2 minutes, as my tap-water is about 15L/min. And it brings about 43l of wort down into the low 60c, and the formentioned cleaningwater is also in the high 50s/low60s (celcius). I also run a drill with a X-shaped blade in the bottom (grainfather whirlpool blade). Then I turn on the pump (changed into the 25w model, not the standard 9w), and run the wort thru the counterflow, but with a whirlpool-arm for 5 to 10 minutes to (hopefully) collect most of the trub in the middle, and this further reduce the temp of the wort by 10c or something, so we are now in the high40s-low50s. Now i connect the CF to the FV, and turn on the water in the CF. I guess i could do that in the whirlpool-stage, but ive not done that so far. Anyway, about 12l/min of water-flow, and the whole batch is x-fered in about 5 or 6 minutes at about 20-21c. Ive only ran this setup a few times, and it just occoured to me, that the "exit-water" is pretty cold, as I use it to hose off the different bits, like hop-spider, mash barrel, etc. Yes, it occoured to me, i could probably re-apply the immersion chiller, and i could probably reduce the water-flow, and still apply more cooling. Something for the next time :D TL:DR: I cool with an immersion chiller first, then i x-fer via the CF chiller.

At 9:25 did I hear you run your pump dry! My brewing mentor would murder me for that one haha. Great video guys :D

And now for the ice bath test!! Of course I am kidding because it takes forever lol good video to reference

I have been using the Therrminator for years. If this same exBeeriment would provide similar results in a larger plate chiller, I'd switch based upon the ease of cleaning a CFC vs plate chiller alone.

Thank you for a great video. I've used all kinds of techniques for chilling. Really liked my counterflow for gravity fed chilling. However, after getting a pump and recirculate with whirlpool I found my plate chiller better as seen in your example (130 vs 110 degrees after 5min for the whole batch). I'm also getting a better flow and therefor whirlpool. I assume it's because less total resistance in the plate chiller vs the CFC. Would be interesting to get a time and water consumption comparison of plate, counter flow and immersion chiller from boiling to pitch temp of 5 total gallons.

The last test just measured the temp of the remaining water in the chiller. What you needed to measure is the temperature of the water in the kettle.

I dump my wort straight into a 20 Litre cube with no cooling, sometimes sits in there for 3 months before fermenting, still tastes beautiful.

Thanks!

Love your videos Martin, I’m a counter flow guy and in Florida my ground temp. Reaches 78 degrees so I use a cooler and so I don’t have to buy ice i use all my bread pans to freeze water in.

@TheBrulosophyShow

Жыл бұрын

Nice use of bread pans!

I honestly have never used either of these types of chillers and have wondered how they worked. I definitely learned a ton. I think the plate chiller might be my new method of choice, mainly due to the smaller footprint. I have heard there are cleaning/sanitizing concerns with one or both? Not sure.

Nothing beats immersion chillers in terms of simplicity.

@TheShahart

Жыл бұрын

I agree. I've been using them for years. I want to switch to a counterflow to cool down to pitch quicker for DMS reduction

nice video, cheers

Fascinating results! Chilling is my least favorite part and I've played with almost every option out there but I will have to try option 2, maybe I've been doing it wrong this whole time

@bradleybarth9939

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree. Reducing the wort flow makes lots of sense. I use a cooler/bucket with ice packs to chill down my cooling water and recirculate that through.

I personally use the ice chest, full of ice and water and a recirculating pump for the plate chiller. if I’m not careful I can go below pitching temp on one pass.

The biggest advantage of CF chiller is in my opinion a fact that it is much easier to sanitize its inside parts (where a beer flows). Believe me - it is very difficult to clean the inside of a plate chiller properly.

To find the best thermal efficiency, you should measure the outlet temp of the water as well as the wort. And record the flow rates going in. When you find the coldest wort with the max outlet water temp, youve found the best case

The slower flow rate chills better because there is a larger amount chilling water relative to wort pump trough the chiller. It’s a mass flow ratio that is different.

Thanks. Been contemplating a plate chiller. Will stick with counterflow. We recirculate as well, with immersion chiller in ice bucket to drop water temp before it heads through counterflow. What effect if any do you think cooling and then reheating the wort over and over has, if any?

I’m putting on a brew tomorrow and it is forecast to be 38c in Melbourne, I think I will just hot cube it !

This is great. I’m loving these episodes… What I’m wondering is really how much less water will you really save. How long does it take to empty 5gallons at that rate? I’m guessing close to 5 mins…. Maybe I’m wrong

I have used a plate chiller and it worked well until it clogged. Switched to a Jaded immersion chiller and never going back. It is quick and easy to use with no concerns about clogging and hidden sources of contamination.

It was an interesting comparison, but a little funny to me. I use a counter-flow cooler, by regulating the flow of the cooling water, I can get exactly the temperature I want on the wort in one pass through the cooler. and the cost of water is negligible. Living in a place with cold and cheap water has its advantages. 😊

Fantastic. I have been waiting for this experiment as I have a counterflow, plate and immersion chiller and have been testing the best way to cool 10-15 Gal batches. Immersion with chilled water and reduced flow appears to waste less water and easy cleanup. Any ideas how I can combine my chillers to optimize cooling ???

Another way to save water is to chill the wort down to the pitching temperature of the yeast (max 30C). Instead of the fermentation temp (low 20s). This works for dried yeast and beer on beer.

I love my counterflow chiller made from steenless steel. Easy to clean and belief me a plate chiller you will never been able to clean 100%

Interesting results.. would be curious to see results including other variations on the CFC and plate chiller... like the blichmann therminator, some all stainless or copper CFCs, etc.

@shanewalters7821

Жыл бұрын

I agree, that seems like a very small plate chiller. I use the Therrminator and would like to see a comparison with one closer to that size.

I use a counter flow, but when brewing a lager/pilsner, I will hook my old emerson chiller to my water supply, then place it in a bucket of ice water, then attach it to my counter flow. My water supply is from my well, and is roughly 40 to 55°. This method get my wort to about 55 to 60°.

Thanks for the video Martin, I'm always learning.. SLOW THE FLOW(I am guilty of rapid)

I've not been a fan of dumping hops directly into the wort because it ends up with tons more material in the boil, more going through the chiller and more going into the fermenter. I rigged up a hop spider (nothing special) with a 200 micron bag. Plenty of flow through the bag and it keeps all that hop material out of the wort. Because of the above, the usage of my plate chiller (Therminator) has become so much easier. No slowdowns, faster cooling and way easier cleanup.

I have both a 20 plate chiller and an all copper counter flow. I found both chill equally quickly, normally 10-12 minutes. In hot weather I switch from tap water to recirculating the chilling water through ice to achieve the final few degrees of temperature drop. I control the water and wort flow to attempt to achieve maximum heat transfer per unit of water. I recirculate back through the kettle whirlpool port until pitching temperature, usually 66F, then settle for 15-20 minutes. This way the cold break and trub end up in the kettle bottom. Guess I need to compare my method to the direct to fermenter approach and measure water consumption. Where does the cold break go when chilling direct to the fermenter?

I hot cube all my beers, easier to package and ferment when I am ready. Never had a bad wort.

Another point that would be interesting is when doing recirculation, is it better to reduce flow or full-flow. I'm also wondering if the plate exchanger has a "degraded" cooling passed the first few minutes(because of the mass that takes some additional heat

nice experiments! wondering how effective it would be to have plate chiller immersed in cold water as well.

Wouldn’t throttling the valve on the counterflow chiller output have a significant effect as well?

I find the best way to use a plate chiller is to crank water flow up as high as it will go, then make tiny adjustments to the wort flow until you hit pitching temperature. You only need to run it through once.

Have you tried recirculating cold side? Say you ave a large container filled with water and ice? Should give faster chilling due to improved delta as long as your ice water reservoir is large enough. Using the counterflow chiller I bet you get quicker chilling with only a single pass of wort.

Martin, great video. I purchased an exchillerator a few months ago and I made an important discovery. While my conclusion was the same (reduced flow is the way to go), it’s important WHERE you restrict the flow. When you do it at the pump, you’re reducing the amount of wort in the chiller and therefore reducing the contact area between the wort and the copper pipe inside of the chiller. It’s essentially a half-filled pipe. I saw a difference of about 10 degrees when I placed a ball valve at the end of the chiller and let the pump go full blast. I hope my explanation makes sense, and I suspect you’d get better results for both chillers using this method. Cheers bud.

@TheBrulosophyShow

Жыл бұрын

Makes perfect sense. Will try this on today’s brew day. Thanks.

@cosmic_diver

3 ай бұрын

That seems strange if you are running hot wort in through the lowest point of the CFC. Gravity and air characteristics would mean the tube would always be full of wort. What orientation are you using for the CFC?

Only reason to keep recirculating into the kettle is to get the wort out temperature to pitching temp. No 5 minutes are needed, just a short bit. One other variable is the water flowing rate. Did you do any testing as to what happens when you either open the tap fully, or just halfway?

Method 3 is good way to drop the temp of the whole wort to potentially reduce isomerizing(?) alpha acids any further ? I usually recirculate to below 80c-70c When I get some spare cash I would like to try a copper immersion chiller

Quick thing I noticed: the counter flow chiller was circulating as if it was only half open, vs the plate chiller had a heavy stream back into the pot. This would seem to me that the plate chiller lost because the wort going through the final pass suffered from flowing too fast.

I need to change up my chilling game. I use a stainless IC and it’s such a pain that I usually just chill to 100F and pitch Kveik

You stated that you wanted to use ice water to reduce your water consumption; I'm curious how much water you already used with the reduced flow method? Some back of the napkin math shows that to cool 23L of wort from 100C to 25C you'd need to remove 4186J/L/C * 23L * 75C ~= 7.2 million joules. Each KG of ice will absorb 334,000 joules to melt. So if you recirculate 20L of ice water (accounting for a final chilling water temperature of 20C) you'd need (7.2MJ - (20L * 4186J/L/C * 20C rise)) / 334KJ = ~16KG of ice, which seems rather impractical, which is why I suspect most people using ice water do so as a "final" chilling step, after using ground water to chill as much as they can. Personally, I live in a place where the ground water temperature rarely exceeds 10C, one of the few advantages to living in a place that get well below zero for 5 months a year. That said, in my own efforts to reduce my water consumption, I've been experimenting with using my glycol chiller to chill my wort from boiling down to pitching temps directly. With a sufficiently large reservoir (6 gallons, in my case) I find with a starting glycol temperature of -1C, I can chill down from boiling to pitching temps in ~30 minutes, with the glycol reservoir never exceeding 25C, using my 5000btu diy A/C chiller. For me, it simplifies my brew day by allowing me to pump my boiling wort directly into my stainless unitank and start cleaning my kettle while the glycol chiller does the heavy lifting. I've found that it drops the temperature of the wort below 80C in only a couple minutes, so it doesn't spend a large amount of time in the temperature band where the hops would continue isomerizing. I do know that glycol chiller vendors typically recommend against this, as it can overload the compressor. In my case I suspect it's ok as I have only a single fermenter (so no additional heat load considerations), and the design pressures of the chiller I have would be based on higher temperatures than the reservoir experiences, as a window air conditioner should routinely see temperatures of 30C+ on the evaporator, with temperatures at or below 21C on the condenser.

11:39 Which is easier to clean and less prone to debris sticking inside? I’m thinking counter flow.

What always concerns me with a plate chiller or a counterflow chiller is the difficulty in KNOWING they are clean internally. For that reason, I kinda like immersion better, though you need a really good coil like a jaded product, but you can drop the whole coil in a bucket of star san and boil it in the last 15 minutes of the boil. Beer doesn't go through the unit, ever...just H2O. Yes, you can clean the plate/counterflow with a sufficiently caustic cleaner, more cleaning, more sanitization, whatever you fancy. Cheers!

So.. if you connect the chillers to a closed loop chiller, like a glycol chiller or an industrial chiller for a laser unit (they can chill about 1400W).. and then do the recirculation method.. you have two closed systems that doesnt waste any water.. :)

So correct me if I'm wrong... Plate chiller and a Pump is a must, but you can use gravity with a counter flow chiller?

TO help chill could you not immerse the counterflow one in an ice bath and pump the ice water through

I haven’t done it but something I’m wondering about is what if I made a bucket of ice water and captured the expelled water into another bucket. When that bucket fills, add ice and swap the water in/out hoses and run it back into the now empty bucket. I’d waste a lot less water …I think. We’ll see.

How about submerging the plate chiller in ice water?

The results of the recirculation method were inaccurate because you stopped the flow through the chillers before sending it into the flask. That time sitting in the chiller while the cooling water was still flowing drastically reduced the temperature. Had you kept the water from the kettle flowing, you would see very different final temps.

4:15 Take note that infrared thermometers aren't accurate when measuring fluids (you are measuring the top layer) or shiny objects.

Since you have both, maybe try hooking them up in-line

Are you really sure the tap water is 20 degrees? Sounds pretty warm to me. Using an IR thermometer like you have shown briefly might give you inaccurate readings

I would actually argue that with human subjects a p-value of .2 is good enough. What was the p-value for the 9 participants?

maybe the number of layers in plate chiller its not equivalent to the counterflow chiller... are more variables in this case

Recirculation is a bad idea. Heat exchangers are the most efficient with large temperature differences but as you recirculate the temperature difference goes down and therefore the efficiency does too.

Your tap water is 21degrees?!

last part tells me a lot of waste also goes into cooling thermal mass of the kettle

This is a great test but there's still an open question about your conclusion that the reduced wort flow method is better because it is less wasteful of cooling water... Reducing the wort flow will take longer than pumping at full flow and you didn't compare the total time required (and therefore the total cooling water required) to cool the full batch down to pitching temperature. Without doing the math or actually testing the time required you don't actually know of the reduced flow method is actually any less wasteful...

@jeffhumphrey873

Жыл бұрын

Yes, would love to know how much time it took to get to 2L with reduced flow, compared to the 5 minutes recirculation method. Loving the YT Brulosophy content! Keep it coming!

@megatesla

Жыл бұрын

Cooling a full batch down to pitching temp with reduced flow straight into fermenter will use less water as you don't have to cool the actual boiling kettle (which might have significant thermal mass) too as you do with recirculation cooling. The biggest difference to me with straight into fermenter vs recirculation is that you get the cold break in your fermenter, which isn't always a bad thing.

@SeanPhillips

Жыл бұрын

@@megatesla WIthout trying it I'm not convinced that's true. Remember that you don't need to cool the entire kettle down to pitching temperature. You only have to cool it enough so that the wort coming out of the cooler is at pitching temp. In my experience that only takes a couple minuteswith my CFC and I can then run at full flow rate into the fermenter. TBH it would probably take about the same time either way, but I'd like to see some test results. I might do it myself with some hot water just to see the difference.

@megatesla

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​@@SeanPhillips The most efficient process (least amount of water wasted) would be to cool just the wort (not the kettle as well) down to pitching temp in the most efficient way possible within a reasonable time. If the water flow is too high, you will cool faster, but the water exiting the CFC have not extracted all the heat that it could. If you slow the cooling water flow rate down too much, your efficiency increases but you will have to reduce wort flow also and this will take much longer. There is an optimum middle ground for wort and water flow rate, which will differ for different coolers, different cooling water temperature, and different acceptable cooling times.

I think that the test is kind of not representable. If you wanted to campare these systems, you schould compare the contact surface area of each chiller and then, assuming the external factors are all constant and you ignore things like convection through air and radiation, you could calculate the stream of warmth/energy thats going out of the system. In an experiment you needed at least to check weather the chillers have the same contact surface area or not. Also: Temperature exchange is a function of time. The cooling water is not getting heated instantaniously. This heat exchange time is faster when the difference between the temperatures is higher and slower when the difference is lower. So if you want to cool more efficiently and also faster it might be a good idea to not only restrict the flow of the wort, but also the flow of the cooling water as the temperature difference is getting lower. Otherwise the cooling water just comes out of the chiller almost as cold as it got in. But still: great video! I enjoyed watching it!

@megatesla

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By reducing the cooling water flow it can be more efficient, but please explain again why you think it will cool faster? With faster cooling water flow you say the "water just comes out of the chiller almost as cold as it got in". Exactly! So the temperature of the water in the first part of the cooler is lower, and coming out it is also lower, so the gradient is higher at input and the gradient is higher at the output. Surely faster cooling water flow will cool the wort faster?

Larry did a re-circulation method with ice in a cooler and a pump instead of a steady water supply. Re-circulates without as much wasted water. kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6Sj0ZONZqqaYqg.html