I have a question . I am new to black powder. I recently purchased a pietta Remington army sheriff 44 caliber. I have a question about caps and ball. A friend told me to order the 454 balls saying that they will seat better. And I’m not quite sure which caps to use. I know the 11s are standard but a friend told me to order the Remington number 10s. I know don’t you hate all these questions from newbies 😀

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Not at all. Both bits of advice sound sound. The .454 will shave a tad bit more lead which is OK, just be sure to seat in fully on the powder. You can tell that when the effort to seat becomes considerably more. I believe Pietta recommends the 454, however, the 451 seems to do well for me also, but I make sure that there is sufficient lube around the ball to prevent a chain fire - which is a flash over from an adjacent chamber that gets by the ball and sets off the powder. I can knock on wood because it hasn't happened to me; can't say the same for my brother. The #10 caps should work fine if they are Remington's. The CCI's tend to run some smaller, and probably need the #11's in them. Hope this helps. O.R.

@richardhopkins9493

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 thank you for the heads up 🙏

@paultrimble9390

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardhopkins9493 it’s nice to have someone to ask when u need little help and they not treat u like a laughing stock. Because we was all “ newbie” at one point. You will learn a lot here on his channel believe me I’m proof my teachers back in day probably thought I was unteachable just needed the right interest and right teachers. Lifting my leg and stomping 4 times. 2 + 2 = 4. Lol. Stay safe keep lead on target 🎯 and have fun. Black powder is a blast 💥 to shoot. Lol.

@charlie1571

Жыл бұрын

@Dave Very good Dave. I started shooting blk. powder in the early 70's and you have very good advice for this shooter. Stay with it my friend and don't let them take away our given rights.

@richardriley8906

Жыл бұрын

#11 nipples work but can let moisture in thru to powder load ..I like to use corn meal in replacement of the wads covering charge , not to much not to little do not over fill chamber. The lightly lube the ball itself for a load that can be carried with less mess. Try this loading 1 shot at a time increasing the powder in increments till comfortable . never measure packed powder. If you get a 45 conversion cylinder ONLY use Cowboy load cartridges. lead rounds . no jacketed cartridges. Modern cartridges have way to much pressure.

A cap and ball gun only likes one particular powder charge for accuracy. It'd be interesting to see this test again with the same charge.

Really great video when I started bp revolver shooting about 10 yrs ago i used wads all the time not so much anymore just a good lube .Thanks for doing these videos very informative

All data is valuable. Thanks for sharing, including explanations and perspective. Great stuff :) Jim M.

Great comparison very interesting,there’s a lot to be said for tradition with that fantastic group.

Love your videos Old Ranger, keep em comin !

Very good shooting I sent a comment asking advice. I purchased two revolvers 1858 New Army and a 1860 . They were backordered and both came in at the same time so I took both. Thanks for responding to my first email my shooting is much improved with this type of firearms. I'm a novice with black powder but skilled with modern weapons. Thanks again Great shooting. PS I purchased extra cylinders for both revolvers a big help especially with the Remington 1858

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear things are working well. Keep up the good work, be safe, and thanks for the complements. O.R.

Impressive shooting like always!

Lube over the ball was intended to keep water or moisture out of the cylinder in humid or wet climates. Somewhere along the way the emphasis became about softening powder fouling.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Quite possible that "in the day" it was more important to be able to get the loads to shoot, rather than be able to load and shoot accurate 3 or 4 cylinders as we do today. Your point is well taken. O.R.

@denisdegamon8224

3 жыл бұрын

Not so, the lube was always placed there to keep the fouling soft for the following shots. Old timers back in the day would blow down the barrels of the rifles to both clear the vent and keep the powder fouling soft. The moisture in their breath was just enough to do the job. Thats why the sharps shooters use blow tubes after each shot.

@Puppy_Puppington

7 ай бұрын

@@denisdegamon8224true

“Shooting season” to me runs from January 1st through December 31.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Any vacant lots in your area?? O.R.

Good video!] The 58 New Model Army I have has been tried with both wads and lube only too.... Very reliable and accurate weapons even at 70 to 75 yards with lube on top. With the wads, I was lucky to hit a target the size of a elephant at that range...lol Good stuff!

@charlie1571

Жыл бұрын

I think it was the lube that made the difference

I am convinced that loading the ball straight down onto the powder charge creates more consistent powder compression....hence greater accuracy. In much the same way a conical bullet performs, in a muzzle loading rifle. Also observed similar poor accuracy results when using felt wads. Wad sticking to ball appears to create a "shuttlecock" effect...which affected ball in flight. Good enough accuracy for casual shooting, though.

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Cal. This is my line of thought also, and nice to hear that I'm not the only one thinking this. I didn't start out with any pre-conceived ideas, just my experience after lots of targets, guns, and empty percussion tins and powder cans. O.R.

DIYed my own powder. Came out quite good. 75% Kno3, 15 Charcoal. 10% Brim stone. Homogenized using Isopropyl Alcohol and a bullet blender for some 10 minutes. Pushed thru a fly screen air dried and came out like 3F it did. Good Stuff.

@357bullfrog9

3 жыл бұрын

Good for you ! I can't seem to get it to burn right. Mine sounded like a mouse with gastric problems

@pulesjet

3 жыл бұрын

@@357bullfrog9 Mixing procedures is he ticket. Mix Wet and long. Isopropanol. KNO3 and Sulfur Dry at first. It took me three times to make it more then ENERGETIC. I use it in my Black Powder pistol and is cheaper and more energetic then Pyrodex .

@357bullfrog9

3 жыл бұрын

@@pulesjet thanks. I'll give it another try. Might have to holler at you for some advise if that's ok ?

@pulesjet

3 жыл бұрын

@@357bullfrog9 Using a cheapo bullet blender I mix the char coal and S dry until powdery. Add kn03 and iso enough iso to make soupy like, Mix the hell out of it until like muddy clay. OBJECTIVE TO mix the char coal and sulfur best one can. Your two fuels. My kno3 is quite course. NOT as water soluble as you would think.. Iso even less so. longer mixing times corrects the issue. At this point you have two options, Push thu window sceen or dry as is granulate by other means. Once dry your dealing explosives' compounds. Forcing it thru sceen wet produces FFF size graduals. Once dry.

@zxtuner4lyfe

3 жыл бұрын

@@pulesjet you should make a video on that. Bet it gets a ton of views.

Your camera is actually capturing the round balls mid flight right before they hit the target. Pretty cool.

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

Never noticed. I have seen the trace of bullets at times when the sun angle is correct. Thanks for pointing this out. O.R.

Hello. First great videos. We really appreciate the time and effort also money to it takes you to make these video’s for us. Lot of people don’t realize cost , for equipment, time takes to record not counting editing to make a nice quality video. So for that I say thank you. Wish I could do more for the channel than a like , sub, and share is all I can afford at the moment. Great shooting. Love watching and learning. I was using some felt wads. got the 1/8” think. Do have tube of Thompson bore butter to. I have pietta 8” army 2021. Son got the 5” navy with wedge, barrel slides off front. Ahh I like a back or top strap myself. As mines a steel frame because I went with a 45 acp Kirst Konverter. Just to be able to go modern if need or want. Walt Kirst is great guy. Called him left a message,he called back,quick ,walked me through the little hang up I was having with it. They will set ur gun up or you can do it itself if have little mechanical skill and few hand tools. But was having little hang up on one- two spots where tight on cylinder. talked to Walt sent him video he was like file here few strokes file there few strokes take sliver off the paw , file foot two light strokes try that. Lol done it was like butter. Woo starting to ramble some just like giving Walt Kirst’s his respect great gunsmith. Anyway love the work you do. Black powder doesn’t get respect it commands. Hear lot of but 9 mm shoots this 357 does that modern bullets do this. Well yes probably but lots os people in older days wish they where not on business end of ole bp gun. Plenty of families fead and protected with black powder rifle and pistol. They are fun to shoot lovely to look at and nice conversational piece. So there’s the triple threat lol. Keep up the great teachings and I’ll try to be a good learner. lol. Stay safe and keep the lead on target 🎯 From ur ole hillbilly buddy.

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks so much for the comment. It does take a lot to do videos. Most of the shooting I've done lately has been on camera. I've almost forgot how much easier it is without recording. I have around 200 gigs of video from the last 3 years, and over 800 targets with at least 6 rounds each. I'm lucky I'm retired and have a range in the back yard. Lots of others would probably do better than I if they had a similar setup. Thanks again. I believe I saw Mr. Kirst at a cowboy shoot 20 years ago, think he was planning to work out a conversion for a pocket gun, don't know if that worked out for him. Great guy. I've always had this "thing" for the percussion guns, and other black powder guns. Just can't get enough; still buying when available. Some fine replicas being made in Italy. Was still in school when I got my first one, has the Uberti symbol, and was imported by Replica Arms out of Ohio I believe. If youtube had been around I might have known that it takes more than just a piece of a felt hat soaked in beeswax to get them to shoot. Hard for younger folks to imagine how difficult it was then to get info. Now we have the ability to pass on data and experiences. Sounds like you know what you are doing -- stay on target. O.R.

@paultrimble9390

2 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 always learning and love talking to my elders give them respect they’ve earned. I love listening to my gramps tell me stories of older days. He been gone since 92 so now just listen and ask to get that information first hand. From People that experience it. I learned lot that way. lol Stay safe happy holidays to you and yours. From ur ole hillbilly buddy.

Great video and info. Thank you.

Great, useful video, thanks !

Very interesting video, please keep making more vids

What you might hav been seeing is lead fouling. As the groves fill up with lead the accuracy is increasing to a certain point where the lead/copper and powder residue start decreasing the accuracy. I have zero experience with black powder but if you look up books on precision shooting you can read about that phenomenon.

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the insight. I feel that it isn’t lead buildup because in cleaning (which I’ve done lots of), there is no signs of traditional leading. Barrel cleans up whistle bright with only hot water. Never any lead shavings. Again, thanks for your input, but nearly 100% sure the buildup is not the leading that occurs with modern smokeless powder shooting. O.R.

@westsenkovec

Жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 there's one way to be sure. Repeat the test but in reverse. Conical first and then ball 😃 I don't have any BP firearms and I'm currently shopping around for my first one so it's my curiosity speaking. It's things like those that make the hobby interesting. Have a nice day!

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

@@westsenkovec You’re right about that. Believe I did clean the barrel, but still there’s more things like “shooter fatigue “ that can be a factor. Whenever (or if) winter comes to an end, and there’s enough time before it starts again, that sounds like something that begs to be repeated. Thanks for the encouragement. O. R.

I do not use either, wads contaminate the powder, grease just makes a mess. Proper ball size, prevents chain fire and a dry mess to clean up is by far better than a sloppy greasy mess any day. Takes the same amount of time. I do like your videos though, gives food for thought

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Can't argue with wads contaminating the powder burn or grease mess. I have fired dry and after several shots accuracy seems to me to drop off. Probably not an issue unless engaging in some competition that needs it. An example would be the NMLRA national black powder revolver events at Friendship, IN. If you cast your own, probably want to keep the spruce cut off area up when loading. Also, I remember someone laying the fault of chain fires on crushed powder trails if some powder grains are on the side where the ball is pushed down.. Interesting theory. Thanks for watching and your comments. O.R.

@link7369

Жыл бұрын

When you cook with hog fat and oil you create what .oil gets past the piston rings in an engine .fouling smoke performance .you carry a black powder in all kinds of weather was the lead pours. Did they us animal fat too keep water out. Just asking

@Free_Range_4x4

4 ай бұрын

@@link7369bro what 😂

@Akuma-jx8dr

3 ай бұрын

Try pulling that pin back out without lubing it up. I had to get a hammer and screwdriver to beat it out because of the fouling. Lube it every time or you will have screwed driver marks on the pin.

@taurushipointenthusiast1306

2 ай бұрын

@@Akuma-jx8dr That is one version I will leave it at that

Fabulous accuracy, I’m doing some tests of my own including using semolina as a filler over the powder to get the ball close to the face of the cylinder.

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'm thinking that it is maybe as important to keep the fouling as soft as a person can to keep things consistent. A build up of that stuff just seems to be no good. O.R.

@ricknone4686

Жыл бұрын

I use 28 grains of P powder and around 28 grains of wheat cereal!

Yes you do not want oil to contaminate the powder as it changes the burn time and also can lead to it not burning at all...

I've had better accuracy with lube over the bullets vs wads also. But, could your accuracy result differ because of the lower power charge instead of the lube?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Good point. I've seen a number of videos that we could draw a conclusion that just a few grains can make a big difference in group size. But, I seriously doubt that if I had upped the charge to 30 as with the wads that there would be much difference. That's just my feeling from having tried and tried to get certain guns to "shoot" by varying the charge. I would more likely give the credit of the smaller group size to random luck, because I would be willing to bet that if I had fired another cylinder of the 25 grain load that the group would have enlarged -- just because it could. I wanted to show my results here not as an absolute that lube is better, just because there may be those that conclude wads are the best, and I feel there needs to be more data and tests. It may turn out that there's not enough difference to be concerned about. That said, I've had some really crappy results with the lubed wads, especially if they are "over lubed". I have several yards of 1/8 inch felt that I would like to put to use, but maybe just had bad luck, so stopped. Maybe I can use it for a blanket. I have always felt that lower loadings will give better groups in general, but maybe this is just from hear-say from groups of target shooters. I have a vid of shooting a 58 laser engraved pietta where the group size improved when I went to an increased charge in an attempt to bring down the point of impact. Seems just about the time that I think I've got something figured out, I shoot one more group to verify it. -- only to prove that I don't. Thanks for the comment, and for providing us with excellent re-pro molds. Now that I have some of the faster twist Uberti's, I'm going to try some of them in those guns. O.R.

That was a good camera angle bud :D You could see the ball in the air for a bit :D

Thanks for the information

Well done. Been shooting the same weapons since 1960. Interesting enough, for years I was called the Old Ranger on several forums since around 2004 or so. But pissed some folks off due to pointing out their ignorance on the forums. I hope no one confuses you for me. I now go by An Angry Ranger these days. Enjoy your channel and we definitely share the same interests.

@discipleochrist4202

3 жыл бұрын

I remember you

@anangryranger

3 жыл бұрын

@@discipleochrist4202 😬

@discipleochrist4202

3 жыл бұрын

@@anangryranger you still shooting the ol 1860?

@anangryranger

3 жыл бұрын

@@discipleochrist4202 sent that to my brother in S.D. but '51 Navies, Dragoon, Well Fargo and such are still here.

@discipleochrist4202

3 жыл бұрын

@@anangryranger i recently splurged on a ss 1858 uberti. Im still a colt man and love my 1860 armys but the 1858 is a sweet shooter

I have been shooting blk. powder arms for over 40 yrs.and I say a lot depends on humidity, precise measurements of the shooter and sometimes the pistol itself.

I was wondering if you noticed more fouling in the barrel or less, when using wads over lube? My guess would be that wads are cleaner, but with the high temperature, do you think the lube would be melted and quickly expelled? And how many cylinders do you fire before you clean the barrel? Someone once told me to clean the barrel after 3 cylinders of shots, but I've never run across further information on the subject. Very interesting video, thanks for posting!

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

The lube that I used on the wads was fairly stiff. Using a thinner lube I believe causes it to be squeezed out of the felt into the powder when the ball or conical is compressed, which is not a good thing, but might help some as far as fouling goes. I have found wads near the target (actually came across one that was stuck into a bullet hole) and these wads are in about the same condition as when put into the chambers. I have found that the barrel seems to clean a little better using the lube. Because lately I have been using the black MZ quite a bit, I can get more than three cylinder loads before swabbing. With Black, I think the advice of three is about right. In a dry climate things can get pretty caked up after (or before) that. Some folks may have a magic thing for that : I don't. Outside of the cylinder getting progressively more difficult to rotate (lube on the cylinder pin can help), what you will probably notice is accuracy getting worse. Also, I have noticed speeds and recoil increase some. This could be due to cylinder fouling as well. Lots to consider in this game, makes it very frustrating, or very interesting, depending on mind set. Thanks for the comment, hope this helps. O.R.

@dd-nv6sw

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. I really enjoy learning more and more about the hobby and your videos are a good source of information.

That convinces me the accuracy was fantastic at 25 yds , I find the lube wads have very little grease on them .

If I don't use wads, I lightly spray the front of the cylinder with Balistol after I load it. Literally two little squirts and I rotate the cylinder. Works great. I learned that trick while shooting BP cartridges out of my 1873 clones years back.

@cowboywoodard2569

9 ай бұрын

What was your clean up like after shooting, in other words how many cylinders worth.thanks will try goes some here for other pistols

@Gunsforfreedom

9 ай бұрын

@@cowboywoodard2569 I would spray the face of the cylinder after it was loaded, every time. Clean up was the same as if I used wads. The Ballistol just prevented the cylinder from dragging on the forcing cone after it was fouled. And it softened up the fouling on the face of the cylinder.

Interesting stuff

It looked like some powder was contaminated by the lubricant on the wad and didn't ignite. The lubed load used 5 grains less powder and reached nearly identical average velocity.

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

I too have sure “felt” like something goes on with the lubed wads. Its like “danged if you do, danged if you don’t “. Enough lube to do the job of keeping fouling soft and it messes with the load; too little and whats its point. Have a great Christmas. O. R.

The fact that 25 grs without a wad and 30 grs with a wad had almost identical velocity is due to the fact that lube from the wad spoiled some powder thus reducing the effective charge to about 25 grs.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

I'm thinking that is very likely. Also, seems like I have noticed increased velocity after the cylinder fouls. I was starting to check into this when the whistle blew and recess was over, and now looking at the barrel of old man winter, and looks like he is packing heavy. Thanks for commenting, I enjoy hearing what others think, and this makes sense. O.R.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

@@jacspring5214 I'm thinking about doing more shooting with the wads. A few years back I purchased two yards of 1/8 inch felt, made some punches, etc. Maybe get the chronograph going and hope to find out why I quit using them in favor of the lube. It might just have been a coincident that the groups seemed better using lube. I feel I would like to work this out, and others probably have opinions also. I can get a little too wrapped up with accuracy, when reliability in important, and not leaving mess of melted lube from the cylinder at the range shooting bench counts big. O.R.

@pulesjet

3 жыл бұрын

@@jacspring5214 lubed wads SUCK for long term use. Here in the Southwest it gets hot. In just a month or so the dang thing may or may not go off. CORN MEAL is the remedy.

I wonder what will happen with the wads placed on top of the bullets, not underneath (as it for sure have an effect on the ball: no burning gaz in direct contact with the lead projectile). Regards Btw: nice grouping, you are a very sharp shooter imho

does anyone have any experience with putting the wads on TOP of the ball? for paper cartridge's

Here in the south west summers the pre lubed wads contaminate the powder to the point they may or may not fire. If you are in a carry situation corn meal is a much more dependable solution. For long term carry seal with bee's wax seems to work for me.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

That's my kind of talk. I'm not as hot here, but I believe I've had some weird squib type shots happen when using the wads, think more noticeable when I have extra lube on the powder side of the wad. I've fired some RB from just the cylinder (no wad), and the speed seems to be a little more than half that when there is a barrel attached. So powder is still burning well after the ball leaves the cylinder chamber. The gunmakers in the flintlock era didn't go to the extra length barrels because they were easier to make! So, how does that black powder chemical reaction deal with lube gas?##! Possibly not well. And a whole lot worse it it is melted into the powder. O.R.

@pulesjet

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 BP wetted in any fashions becomes ineffective. Oil, grease , lard or other. Nutured.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

@@pulesjet Keep your powder dry, Right!

@pulesjet

3 жыл бұрын

Ordering another 5lb of KNO3 before Harris out laws that too.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

@@pulesjet Lets all hope that doesn't happen, and I'm not talking about you ordering KNO3.

I did dry wad in the middle. Then bore butter converting the top to be safe and help lessen the fouling as well…

@oldranger3044

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. I’ve also tried that and it does the trick on fouling. I’ve also found wads that get to the target at 25 yards. Actually found some in the sand on the back of the targets. If that wad was hanging on to the ball, it probably wasn’t doing that to help with the steering. Maybe those lead balls don’t care, but I know I’m not having anything hanging on to mine. O.R.

The wads are usually cleaner so a lot of people use them for that reason alone.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, and as others have stated, a lot better if things get hot. I can't say for sure that the lube system is more accurate, feel more data is needed, and it may turn out the opposite, or not enough difference to be noticed. A lot of shooting is done where pin point accuracy isn't necessary, and there, wads seem to be the way to go. Elmer Keith used them, don't recall if he claimed them to be more accurate, or just that he had good luck, and they were accurate enough for him. Chapter 14, "Sixguns by Keith", however, I wouldn't recommend getting into the habit of blowing breath through the barrel. I witnessed someone at a rifle shoot do that out of habit. There was enough noise so the fellow didn't realize his gun had misfired. If he had had a hang fire, it would have blown off his head. O.R.

@cowboywoodard2569

9 ай бұрын

The Herd needs to be Thined out others Neutured!

great vidio sir love this outcome and would like to see the other outcome thank you

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Haven't put together one yet, but seems like my experience is that using the wads only show some very good potential, yet I seem to get more flyers, and haven't figured this out. When, or if I think I do, I will post something on it. Thanks O.R.

I get better accuracy with lube than with wads but I’ve heard and seen the opposite. I wonder why the velocities are the same. Maybe there’s an average of 5gr that gets stuck to the wad and doesn’t burn?

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

I have recovered wads from the target backstop, and they appear to have unburned powder on the back. Sometimes they stick in the targets. (Got to wonder how that does with air flow., and when, or if they separate).Also I figure that lube is forced out and into the powder during compression. Just look at the liquid on the bottom of the pucks that you make. I can't see where that can do our "burn" any good. I stopped using wads a while back, and it wasn't because I ran out of the 2+ yards of felt that I still have, along with several bars of SPG that I used for the lube. I will admit that they are not at all as messy, and for many situations, work just fine. Oh, I'm having pretty good luck with my mini grease gun for getting lube into the chambers. I think I have posted something on it. O.R.

Just because of laziness (not to play with lube) I think about putting wad on top of ball?

I’ve said it before, this guy can shoot!

How about both? That could help draw some hypotheses. Could it be the wad itself causing the issue, the gap it creates between the load and ball? Is it ALL about the lube? Undoubtedly the lube helps, but to what degree.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Of course if we tried both, and the groups went south, hard to know what caused it. But then again, maybe for some reason things would improve, so no harm in trying. It should really decrease the chance of a chain fire from the cylinder end. Another thought would be to try a thicker wads, possibly two. One needs to proceed with caution here because don't want a space between powder and ball, which could cause an explosion. That's something I would like to try (not the explosion part) with the wads, it might throw some additional light on the subject. O.R.

Recently tried: powder-wad-lube-ball. Seemed to work okay, left a lube star at the muzzle crown. 35gr 777 Fffg, wonder wad, blue Thompson’s from a tube, Hornady .457 in a first year Old Army. It all “just” fits using the stock rammer. All 6 rung steel at 100yds, big steel, 3’x3’ square… Bifocals are hell…

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

I'd say that's a real load. Even a 3x3 square looks small at 100. Not as easy as some would think, sight adjustment to allow for drop + bifocals (I know about that), and a definite wind factor. Good shooting. O.R.

@jeffowens2051

2 жыл бұрын

Targets are Sublime green like a 70s Plymouth, kinda hard to overlook… 🤣

I use cork vegetable wads over the powder, which fit tightly, then a small dab of homemade bore butter over the cork, then the ball on top of the lube. I have shot 50+ rounds very accurately using this method and the bore isn't any dirtier when I clean it than my modern center fire pistols. It sounds a little odd but I learned about this method a few years ago and never went back to felt wads. The cork sweeps out the bore and the lube behind the ball sticks nicely in the grooves for the next shot.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

I have been thinking along those lines because I believe I've seen better cleaning results (I think) when there is lube between the ball and powder rather than after the ball. The problem I seemed to have was that I think the lube was effecting the way the powder burnt. From the limited data I got when I fired shots from the cylinder without the barrel the speed was somewhere half or two thirds that of the barreled gun. So, maybe keeping the lubed wad out of that burn helps, and as you say, the lube could get into the groves where it could keep the fouling soft and the cork can push it out. Thanks so much for the comment and info. What you described seems very similar to the way that many black powder 45/70 shooters do with their grease cookie. Believe I tried something similar once, only with a thick paper wad and really had some erratic almost squib type shots, probably because the wad wasn't thick enough. If at first no success, try, try again; as my Grandmother would say to me. O.R.

@jefflang6271

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 I use hard vegetable fiber wads from Buffalo Arms Company. I buy the thicker ones (.060") that won't buckle under ramming pressure. For .44 Colt/Remington I buy the .45 Caliber Rifle wads in .463" x 0.060" Sku: WAL463060. For .36 caliber I buy the .38 Caliber Rifle wads in .380" x .060" Sku: WAL380060. Both are $20.00 per 1000 wads. They also sell punches and fiber sheets if you want to do it yourself. I learned about this from a video on KZread by Long Hunter's called "Percussion Revolver Loading". Very worthwhile video.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

@@jefflang6271 Jeff, thanks for the info, I will check into Buffalo Arms Company. Believe I have ordered there in the past for some 45/70 stuff, and I remember they are a good source for black powder folks. Also will take a look at the video. O.R.

@35southkiwi16

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting technique. Thanks for posting.

@cowboywoodard2569

9 ай бұрын

Man, that's something I'd like to try! Where can I get this? I'm in Gonzales, Texas, just a handshake to you

Can you do a video on shooting and inspection on a good used 20 yr old BP pistol. That would be cool to see some patina on a gun, vs a new shiny gun.. A good everyday gun that gets to be carried in the gun belt around waist. And maybe a gun that is to wore out to shoot lead any more. Maybe those can be fixed.. Have fun, your fan

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

I like the idea. Have a couple in mind that I have, but the best part is that I may need to go shopping Just don’t hold your breath as this might take some time. Thanks for the suggestion. O.R.

According to french shooters, using lubed wads or grease over the ball is only about chain fire safety and bore cleaning. For accuracy purpose, two settings are involved: 1. A specific amount of black powder for each gun. With the 1858 .44 cal., a 15 grains load seems to have better results than more powerful loads. 2. The distance between the ball and the bore has to be as short as possible, about 1/16 inch above the cylinder end, just enough to put some grease. Consequently, to seat the ball perfectly, the space between the powder and the ball need to be filled with a specific amount of fine wheat semolina. What do you think about that way?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

I have some memory of match shooters at the NMLRA national shoots at Friendship, IN using a very similar load. Some of those shooters competed in international matches. The idea of the ball being as close to the rifling could make a difference, as it would in theory have less velocity when it engaged the rifling. What that would cause, or not cause I have no clue, but experience seems to show that it is better. I have shot maybe 500+ rounds over the last couple years using that method, and have had very good results. Also have had good results with 25 gr loads in the 44's. If I were to shoot competition again, I would probably go with the reduced load. Might need to vary some depending on 25 or 50 yd targets. Sure appreciate your comments, and from what I know would agree that the method described is used by top shooters. O.R.

very interesting.

Do you think make the wads stick to the bullet causing bad accuracy on some rounds?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Since I found a wad actually stuck into the target backboard at 25 yards, and several that were in the general are, maybe so. Would seem that unless they separate when they leave the barrel, that they would effect the airflow around the rear of the ball, causing who knows what. I suppose there might be some sort of camera that would pick this up, otherwise I have no clue what is going on. I can believe that the wads are heavy enough to fly that far that far on their own, but whether some stay attached for a time is up for grabs. Thanks for the comment, I have wondered the same. O.R.

Can u put the wad in fron of the ball like u do the lube?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

I've tried that. If my memory is correct, accuracy went South. Only speculation of course, but I assumed the wad in front was causing some weird airflow pattern. I think it deserves another go around, and will put it on my list of things to do when I get to do more tests. I also have evidence that the wads over the powder can make it to the 25 yard target, as I have video of two holes appearing with one shot, and actually found one wad stuck in a bullet hole in the target. Have a couple of videos I uploaded about this, but kept them unlisted as I felt there wouldn't be much interest. Thanks for the question. O. R.

I don't understand the value of wads between powder and ball (even though that's how I load). The burned powder is the last thing down the bore, which means the ball is running in a dirty bore. What does the wad do? If you have lube, or a lubed wad, ahead of the ball, then the ball could get some help from the lube in the bore. I admit my ignorance and welcome enlightenment.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

As I understand it, the wad will do at least two things. It may act as a deterrent for a flash from an adjacent chamber igniting the powder causing what is called a chain fire. It in theory will help to mix lube into the fouling to soften it, helping to eliminate it from the bore, allowing for more shots to be fired before accuracy goes South. That's what I've read and heard. Lube at the end of the cylinder has the same purpose. Probably millions of shots have been fired with both systems. Lots of theories and ideas about which works best, and what the heck is going on in the barrel. At this point I'm going to go with what Captain Ron said. "If it's going to happen, it'll happen out there Boss". In other words, need to do more testing. O.R.

@BogeyTheBear

3 жыл бұрын

What's the first warning you see on a can of paint? _Apply to a clean, dry surface._ If the fouling from the burning powder is like spray paint, what lube or a wad does is ensure the resulting fouling settles onto an oil-covered surface within the bore. With the next shot, that fouling is more apt to get forced out by the next bullet rather than remain sticking to the barrel.

Ok, is getting confusing now. I just bought the Pietta 1858 Rem, i bought wads for it. I havent been home to see the pistol yet. Im just now getting into black powder pistols. Should i use the grease also to see which is better?

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

A lot will depend on the individual and possibly the gun. Both systems work when it comes to giving added protection from possible chain fires. There appears to be three main schools. Those that only use powder and ball (or conicals): wads between powder and projectile: and those using lube top of it. So, it’s more like a smorgasbord, and I feel lots of occasional shooters will have good luck one time (probably the planets were properly aligned), and continue to use that system, and proclaim that it is the best. Yes, testing is a great idea, if you don’t have a chronograph, look for noticeable differences in recoil (especially with wads), and group size. If there’s no noticeable difference, go with the shoe that feels right..Have fun and be safe. O.R.

@droberts1664

Жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 thanks for the info. If i want to use bore lube sometime. How much do i use? It looks like fks pretty much pack the lube in the cylinder.

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

@@droberts1664 I use enough to cover the ball. That’s usually about 1 to 2 peas, depends on caliber, probably 2 for a 44. Some just put it around the edge, which is probably enough to help prevent chain fires, it might not be enough to keep fouling soft for the whole length of time barrel. When the ball is down from the cylinder edge 1/4 inch or more, I’ve used a wooden dowel to push it against the ball, not leaving an air pocket. A couple of my videos have a shot of the lubed cylinder, sorry I can’t point you to the exact ones. Also there are videos that go through the loading process that could help. O.R. P.S. it might sound complicated for beginners, but it’s not rocket science.

@droberts1664

Жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 Ok cool, thank you for the help

Why do you put the wads over the ball? We always put them between the powder and the ball. O

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

Hi. That would be an excellent question if that is what I did. You might want to review the video, especially where I push the wads down on the 25 grains of FFF, and then show pushing the round balls on top of the wads. In the thumbnail for the video, what you are looking at is the lube on top of the ball, not wads. Thanks and hope this helps answer your comment. O.R.

I use lube, I made a brass lube syringe to apply it neatly. I have used wad, but after seeing those results I'll stick with lube.

What did your average working cowboy use for a few weeks in the saddle ?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Don't know. Probably lucky I wasn't there to find out. Seriously, I read somewhere that most of the working folks may not have carried because of the cost and the type of work they did. Maybe on a cattle drive. But, branding, fencing, and lots of grunt work would seem more difficult packing iron. Lots of dust too, if I had a horse, a saddle bag would be pretty attractive a spot to keep that piece. Only my thoughts, I no expert on the cowboy way of life. Thanks O.R.

I think not centering the spruce would affect accuracy more than the type of lube.

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

You make a good point. Problem is that if so, it might be small enough that it would take a lot to tests to confirm. I don't think I've got enough caps, powder and whatever to find out. Got to leave something for the next generation to discover. What I can say is that I've tried to get better groups by centering, and it seems not to make the difference. Almost all the groups I have on my videos are random placement. I too feel this goes against common sense, but, if one looks (carefully - maybe use a camera) at the balls after loading, there is a. pretty good indent from the loading lever, and that will be there either way. O.R.

Does petroleum jelly 's good for lube over ball ??

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry I have never tried, so don't feel confident in commenting. However, it seems to be common agreement in most circles of black powder shooters to avoid petroleum products, and go with more "natural" grease or lube. Hope this helps. O.R.

@benewgillian6823

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 Ok , thank you

@woodrowbrimm2805

3 жыл бұрын

Back in the late 1970's I had an 1851Navy and I used Crisco, back then I had never heard if the Lubed Wads. Seemed to work O'kay/

i wonder if if you were using Pyrodex pellets, how that would be relected in the result...jo'c

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting idea. As the red leg said in Josey Wales, "lots of work to do in Texas".

I have that same exact revolver I'll be honest 90% of the time when I was shooting I never used any lube whatsoever I used 454 caliber lead ball which alone made a perfect seal and used 35-40 grains of powder triple F shot that gun hundreds of times that way. Using wads and Lube when your target shooting just takes up too much time.

I just finished with the state championship for the Mariette (revolvers) competition, I shot regional then state. The "top guns" use the powder and the semolina, no card between, the rules call for covering all chambers with lube to avoid chain fires... (yeah I know) These guys are all above 90 point score shooting at 25 yards with one hand. Most with Uberti Remmingtons... I shot a Griswold & Gunnison Pietta .36 with a "floating barrel" (77 score) seems to work best with just the powder and the bullet...

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your information. Couple questions: Not sure what the “floating barrel” refers to, and because of the rules, can we assume that you used a lube over the ball? Thanks again. O.R.

@Yosemite-George-61

Жыл бұрын

My revolver (1851 .36 brass) came in defective, the frame, down where the 2 pins are was not square to the barrel support, so when the bullet hit the cone, the barrel moved and it shot a foot of at 25. I worked on it but still ain't right. My friends call it the floating barrel. If you ever buy a new Pietta, check this before shooting... The lube is obligatory, the referees won't let you shoot if the bullets are not covered. This season would ne nice if you can do a powder/bullet, a powder/card/bullet and a powder/card/semolina/bullet comparsion? Greetings from Normany.

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

@@Yosemite-George-61 Thats interesting about the face where the pins are not being square. Now you have pointed out one more thing that could cause issues, in this case probably windage, rather than height. I’m not sure if I understand the term semolina, what it is, and where used? For my part, the shooting seems to show that powder, ball, and then lube gives slightly better results. I think doing a comparison is a neat idea. What concerns me is that when a fairly limited number of shots are involved, and if we are talking about not a huge amount of difference which I believe to be the case, there could be factors out of the ability to control that could cause a incorrect conclusion. Something like 50 or 100 shots might be needed with each load. Sounds like lots of fun, powder & caps, with the end result being lots of cleaning. Thanks again for your comments, and pass them along to my relatives in your country. P.S. Congrats with that score with that gun. O.R.

I'll have to try lube only. I've always used wads and lube too in my 1860's. Just being extra careful. LOL

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Always good to have an added measure of safety. If nervous, maybe consider a small amount of filler like corn meal to cover the powder, sort of like the wad would do. I haven't convinced myself yet that wads reduce accuracy, so you may not see much difference. Comment to one of the videos about your experience if you want, be happy to find out what you think. O.R.

Lube isn't too fun in western Colorado when it's 107° and sunny outside.

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Point made. Makes the choice easier. Never have that issue where I'm at, or most of the time to the East of me.. But, probably the reason Elmer K. went with the wads.

Seems to me that it's more accurate around 20 to 25 grains than it is at 30

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

I tend to agree with that. A lot of the 44’s have 1-30 twists, some even slower. Newer ones (Uberti and the Pietta Remington) are 1-16. A round ball has a small surface to contact with the rifling, and if it strips, it’s going to have issues with stability one would think. Too fast out of the chamber and it might not “be grabbed by the rifling” without the gain twists the originals had. The gain twists therefore maybe could handle heavier loads without loosing rotation. Speculation on my part. O. R.

Hello Old Ranger, what kind of lube do you use? Thanks

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Mixture of beeswax, crisco, and olive oil. Sorry, not sure about amounts, just sort of mix on the fly. At least 50% crisco. The beeswax will make it more solid to withstand hotter temps, and more oil will make it softer for colder conditions. Hope this helps. O.R.

@UnseenVillager

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 thanks for the reply O.R.

Where did you get those wads?

@oldranger3044

Ай бұрын

I purchased a couple yards of 1/8 inch felt and punched them out using a hole punch mounted in the drill press. Melted some SPG lube and dipped them. O.R.

In MLAIC competition, lube is mandatory.

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Makes sense to me. Tends to add weight to the idea that the chance of chain fire would be reduced by doing this. Seems this could (or is) the reason for the rule. O.R.

👍.

I get better accuracy out of 28 grains of p powder and around 28 grains of wheat ceral crimping in a 454 ball seats in just far enough for rotation on cylinder then use just small amount of bore butter around edges of ball! #10 Remington caps fit nipples firmly, #11 caps fit loose so you have to egg shape them just a tad to firmly stay on nipples! #10 are getting harder to find!

Is the revolver modified or is that stock

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

No mods. Well not actually, because I believe I did work on the front sight. Needed to take some off one side to get the windage right, and believe took some off the top. Probably that isn't really a mod. I would consider things like reaming the chambers and messing with the forcing cone as mods, and it is stock in regard to that. I believe it had a decent trigger, so probably didn't change that. O.R.

@JB-wj6vc

3 жыл бұрын

@@oldranger3044 thank you for the info sir

Shouldn't the gun be clamed down to separate or eliminate the human equation.......

@oldranger3044

Жыл бұрын

Yes. I do have a ransom rest, but no inserts for the Remington style guns. I find that with the sand bag, I can get close to the results of the gun in the ransom rest. Any large differences will show up, and I feel that results would be similar for the ransom rest. If the differences are small, then the human error is more likely to discredit the results as you mention. Thanks for the input. O.R.

What if you used both ?

@oldranger3044

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I don't recall trying that, but suppose others have. Think I'll give it a shot (so to speak). O.R.

.45 Cal. Sabo

Lube is cheap if you make your own, wads are not. 50% lard and 50% bees wax is a good recipe. Your second shot string....Jezsoos!

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Before I had internet and access to various mixtures for lube, I just used plain crisco. Never had much success with accuracy from that and the 36 calibers. I did try some pure beeswax on some old felt hat material, but that didn't help. What I use now, or what you describe, seems to make a world of difference. I need to backtrack sometime and try pure crisco to see if the other additions help or not. It will take quite a few targets, a fair amount of black powder and caps, but it's something I feel I want to know. When I first started shooting I don't think TC bore butter lube was even available. Anyway, if one shoots much, as you say, it can be a cost factor. Patch lube for a rifle is one thing, but filling the end of the chambers ten times is another. Thanks for the info. O.R.

Idk why you people go thru with all these get cartconversion but It’s a feeling

@Old Ranger, those are Japanese beetles...KILL them before they destroy all your wood.

These results could well be just for your particular pistol, and could be reversed for another. Good presentation otherwise!

@oldranger3044

2 жыл бұрын

Very true. I actually had held back making the video because of that. What happened was that I watched another video that claimed that the wads were better. That also was only one shooting of one gun, so I figured only fair to post this result. I can say that I have had similar results with other guns, but not as obvious. Of course, the next comment could well be that I am using the wrong type of wad. If you check some of the comments made by others, they seem agree that the lube method has worked well for them. Sure is an interesting subject, and I am hopefully open to other findings and results. Thanks for pointing this out. O.R.

Well, if you love shooting use beautiful reproductions you're going to love this video if not?