Excellent explanation of why when I tried to use a stereo Mic preamp with my turntable, I got exactly what was described: all highs and no lows. Thanks for the knowledge!

For those thinking they are allergic to EQ, beware your RIAA phono amp is the most insane EQ covering 40dB of filtering range. I like a tiny 4db EQ gain around 12kHz to help my ears recover some aging hearing loss...and believe me, such EQ can really rejuvenate your listening experience, but it’s hard to find any great audio gear caring about that cause audiophile consumers are told to believe EQ is bad 🤔

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

ThinkingBetter I’m thinking I’ll be able to use some old hifi eqs as multi purpose mastering eqs for my home studio and playback system. What do you think? I want to build a home studio that can be basically modular in the live playback/recording sense.

@ThinkingBetter

3 жыл бұрын

grant jonsn Modern DSP based EQs aren’t too expensive. Check miniDSP.

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

ThinkingBetter very good. Thanks for the prompt reply, I’ll be checking those out now.

@QoraxAudio

3 жыл бұрын

"For those thinking they are allergic to EQ, beware your RIAA phono amp is the most insane EQ covering 40dB of filtering range." - How many times have you said that already? I think we already know by now 😉 IMO: nothing wrong with EQ, as long as it's the right EQ; loudness EQ should be reintroduced.

@ThinkingBetter

3 жыл бұрын

@@QoraxAudio LOL, it's like politics...if you say it several times, it becomes fact for everyone.

Thanks again Paul, just love the simple explications and info on the RIAA curve. I learn something new everyday. Thanks

Most external phono pre-amps are (today) way better than the built-in ones found in "legacy" receivers and integrated-amps. Just connect the phono pre-amp output to the "aux" (or tuner/aux2) input on your main preamp (or integrated-amp or receiver). The second pre-amp stage is essentially just acts as an "active" volume control (and in some cases tone controls also).

There was the time at all I had was records as my source. When CD players came along it took me almost 18 years to be able to say I could find one that sounded musical. Now streaming has come along and I got sort of hooked on the convenience. As of late, I have started to listen to vinyl records again and I am really appreciating the sound quality like never before. Yes it's more inconvenient but now I have multiple input sources that I can choose from and I get enjoyment from all of them.

@mikenoble8517

3 жыл бұрын

So true. I spent 5K on heavily discounted dedicated streaming gear. Had my daughter set up the mac part. This was pretty much the only way to lure her in to the tune room. She had to hear her stuff on dads system and her stuff is all streamed. A format she grew up with. Then my turn with the stuff I grew up with. Not a life changing moment for her but now she gets it. First time she ever heard a sound stage from just two speakers. Now we spend quality time in the tune room instead of some restaurant and it is her asking me. WIN!

@stimpy1226

3 жыл бұрын

MIke Noble That's fabulous. From generation to generation.

@stimpy1226

3 жыл бұрын

@Tupac Shakur The only issue that I have with records is that some of the older ones are terribly Recorded and mastered. Others are so outstanding from that time period that there is good as almost anything that comes out today on vinyl

Great channel Paul and an incredible source of knowledge. I never knew that the audio gear was so sanitized and spayed and nutered of its true potential. Glad I held on to my vinyl collection going back to 1979, your videos help bring life back into them. I am ordering the Rolls Bellari VP549 phono pre-amp to go along with my carbon tonearm Pro-ject turntable. All the best to you Sir.

Thanks, Paul once again. You taught me there. Godbless.

One important point that Paul didn’t mention, is that if you are using a separate phono preamp connected to a preamp that also happens to have its own built in phono stage, you must connect the separate phono preamp to a line input, and not the phono input of the main preamp.

@chadbarker4023

3 жыл бұрын

That's what I was wanting to know. Thanks man.

@MrAdmin00

3 жыл бұрын

This signal from phono preamp should always get into the line input. Paul assumes that this is a general sense and you should know in advance.

Thx Paul, good q&a

The purposes of the equalization are to permit greater recording times (by decreasing the mean width of each groove), to improve sound quality, and to reduce the groove damage that would otherwise arise during playback. Source Wikipedia

Not exactly related, but this reminds me of a time when I acquired an old Heathkit tube amplifier. Didn't have any issue with my turntable being hooked up to it, but I was using a DVD player for listening to CDs, and when i plugged in that, it was overdriving the amp and distorting it. My inelegant solution was an old tape deck that I had lying around that had a broken tape mechanism, but otherwise powered up fine. I ran the DVD player into that, was able to bring down the levels (it even had handy VU meters), with the output volumes and then it didn't distort the tube amplifier.

I'm looking at a separate phono pre amp (Project S2). but my turntable a planar1 has a built in preamp. so the signal will surely be going through two pre amps. the one buy ànd the built in one?

My Receiver has a Phono line in preamp integrated but my turntable pro ject still didnt Sound louder enough to me so quiet i have to pushe so much the Receiver volume.what you thinking i have to do please ..thank you greats from Portugal 🇵🇹

Just got a Schiit Mani. I’m a believer now.

@QoraxAudio

3 жыл бұрын

What is it you believe in?

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

Qorax schiit LOL

@michaelkaiser5994

3 жыл бұрын

Qorax That a phono preamp makes a big difference as opposed to using the built in phono pre in a receiver.

@QoraxAudio

3 жыл бұрын

@@michaelkaiser5994 Jup, the phono preamp is one of the most underestimated components. About two years ago, I've upgraded from a Cambridge Audio Azur 651P to a SPL Phonos, which allows me to set the correct load capacitance/resistance. One of the best upgrades I've ever done.

I really like the phono pre-amp thats in the pre-amp. Never found the need for an external. Maybe if I ever had a "resolving" system

@jonathansturm4163

3 жыл бұрын

@Fat Rat Revolting would be worse...

@QoraxAudio

3 жыл бұрын

@Fat Rat Every professional has a revolver in his sound system, it increases the attack, makes the bass a lot louder and keeps the neighbors (scared) away. Revolvers go well with western music.

If that’s Paul’s house, he definitely knows what he’s talking about

More parts, at least in the power supply, gives better sound. So an outboard phono preamp with it's own power supply can easily outperform the same circuitry built into the preamp. Note the the Stellar phono stage costs almost half of a BHK preamp.

Basically if your using a phone pre amp or the record player with a phono pre amp. Dont use the receivers phono input. Just use the AUX or cd input.

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

Line input makes the most sense.

@hugobloemers4425

3 жыл бұрын

@@graxjpg that is just semantics, literally

Sweet crib! How about a tour:)

Whenever I have a random question about something...there is always a video of you explaining it :) Just to be clear..."line" preamplifier is the same as preamplifier? I'm just in the market for a preamplifier to pair with my power amplifier. I see some that just say preamplifier...and others say "line" preamplifier.

Cool. So I definitely need one on my Sansui 9900z receiver with my Dual 622 turntable which I love? Thanks Paul ole chap! Hahahaha

Was hoping someone could help me out. I have a TT w/ built-in preamp. When I connect to integrated receiver’s phono input, I place switch on the TT to “phono” to bypass its internal preamp so that I can use the receiver’s preamp. When I do this I get hum. The TT is grounded to the ground screw on the receiver. When I engage the TT’s internal preamp (switch to “Line”) and plug in to receiver’s Input 1, everything works fine. Now, I COULD just leave it like this, but I was hoping to use the Onkyo preamp built in to the receiver. Thanks I’m advance for any help

Would love to go & have a look in PS audio

Not interested in vinyl, but at least now I know how it works.Thanks.

@davidlewis4399

3 жыл бұрын

Wow missing out on a great format.

@hugobloemers4425

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidlewis4399 You know how it is, you can bring a horse to the water but you can not make it drink.

@scottyo64

3 жыл бұрын

Some people are stubborn on both sides. I choose to enjoy digital as well as analog.

@NickP333

3 жыл бұрын

scottyo64 I do too. Nothing wrong with having options, and there’s no reason to draw a hard analog / digital line in the sand.

@khalid969

3 жыл бұрын

@@scottyo64 Audio gear is expensive as it is. Buying gear for both formats adds 50% to your overall expenditure on the hobby. Not to mention, of course, that I have to learn about turntables, cartridges, phono preamps and record cleaning machines, and then I have to buy records. it's just too much for me. I'd rather make it simple and less expensive.

I was wondering Paul, you've mentioned several times that PS Audio's first product was a phono preamp. You guys still have a class A Stellar Phono preamp, $2.5k, what happened to your old 1970s design? Wouldn't it sound classic and awesome, and be priced at something more attainable nowadays? I'd love a PS Audio offering phono pre that's better than the built in one in the Sprout and Stellar Strata, and I'd like it for less than a grand. Please and thank you 😉

@Crokto

3 жыл бұрын

my guess is it just wouldnt sound good enough today for them to be satisfied with releasing it as a product. the technology has come a long way, and i would be surprised if it even measured up to the sprout. releasing a spiritual successor might be cool though

@spacemissing

3 жыл бұрын

I have a (probably one-off) literal 'black box' version of the PSII that, according to Paul, Stan Warren made up, possibly as an experiment. (Too bad we can't post pix here, because it's hard to describe what the thing looks like.) In any case it sounds Very good to me, and it's especially nice because I paid only $2 for it at a thrift shop. I believe PS should introduce a new, simple phono stage that could be sold for a popular price.

Phono pre amps amplify the signal coming from the turntable. Standard pre amps don't amplify anything. They just give you volume control and the ability to select source.

@marianneoelund2940

3 жыл бұрын

*Passive* preamps do not amplify. "Standard" preamps definitely do, as they need to allow -10dBV sources to drive a power amp input at 0dBV to +6dBV.

@charlesferguson6678

3 жыл бұрын

@@marianneoelund2940 Thanks for the correction / clarification.

Maybe you know the answer to a question I have been thinking about: When using a turntable, could I use a regular preamp and digitally apply the RIAA curve in post processing to get the same/similar/possibly better result as using an actual phono preamp? Where can I download the RIAA curve? :) *EDIT: Yep, you can download it. I'll test it out recording some records and see how it does digitally.

@bilderbeargroup4217

3 жыл бұрын

Did it work out okay?

@vyoufinder

3 жыл бұрын

@@bilderbeargroup4217 Works great. Better than any preamp.

Hi Sir , I regularly watch your video reviews. Sir I need a help from you. I want a good tube valve vacuum pre amplifier??? I need 5 inputs with phono , and 3 pre outputs , with tone control, with remote. I have a Parasound power amplifier A 21 + , & Bang Olufsen Active speakers Beo lab 9 , I need a to connect these units. Please advise which on to buy, Europe make , USA make, or a good one Chinese manufacturer. Wait for your reply.

So it’s your fault for my missing phono pre amp! LOL

“Todays pre amps are very very good”. Does that mean I can plug right in and do away with the phone pre amp? Still confused. Maybe I’m fighting it.

Now I have a follow up question I think I know the answer to (yes) but that never gets mentioned when this topic is explained. Why is the curve like that? Why these numbers and and why is it not a straight high pass filter for the recording and a low pass filter for the listening? What never gets mentioned is that ceramic cartridges need no RIAA curve, they need no curve at all, only impedance matching for a normal pre-amp and not even that with many valve amps. So besides the real estate of low frequencies and the noise in the high frequencies argument, I think that if you would be able to go back and listen in on the RIAA meetings setting the standard, a big if not the most important factor was to have a curve that needs no EQ correction for ceramic cartridges. (But I also think that many audiophiles prefer to forget about this humdrum technology and that it's ripple still runs trough todays super high end audio)

@jonathansturm4163

3 жыл бұрын

It’s not that simple. Equalisation practice for electrical recordings dates to the 1920s with differing amounts/turnover frequencies for different sources; microphones as well as recordings. Recordings weren’t all laterally modulated, some were vertically modulated. Microphone technologies varied also with condenser mikes having different characteristics to the older moving coil mikes. Standardisation commenced in the 1940s with NBC Orthacoustic being popular. Eventually with the standardisation of laterally cut vinyl 45 and 33 1/3 RPM records the RIAA equalisation became ubiquitous. Enthusiasts of old 78 and other speeds of recordings have preamps that can deal with the plethora of standards of that bygone era.

@NickP333

3 жыл бұрын

Jonathan Sturm Wow, extremely well explained, Jonathan! Always love your comments.

@marianneoelund2940

3 жыл бұрын

The RIAA curve is actually less extreme than even the simplest high-pass and low-pass filters would be. A first-order high pass at 20KHz would result in 60dB attenuation at 20Hz, and that would be excessive for LP's. The RIAA (playback) curve is given a more gradual slope by combining two first-order poles at 50Hz and 2122Hz with a first-order zero at 500Hz, so that the gain difference between 20Hz and 20KHz is only around 40dB. Also note that the original RIAA spec for the recording curve continues increasing gain beyond 20KHz, but often in practice for recording, another low-pass pole is added above 20KHz to reduce problems with ultrasonic signals. It is probably also worth mentioning that above resonance (typically about 500Hz), master cutting machines require a +6dB/octave slope in order to maintain mechanical amplitude in the groove as frequency increases. So the RIAA curve actually helps to flatten the mechanical response of the cutter.

@jonathansturm4163

3 жыл бұрын

@@marianneoelund2940 Helps, but doesn’t _exactly_ flatten the response of the cutter. That would require knowing which cutter had been used and whoever did the cutting. “For instance, the Neumann SAL 74/SX 74 uses a feedback system to control the motion of the cutting stylus, but this doesn’t operate over the entire audible frequency range. It is fully active only to 14kHz, above which it is rolled off. An optional shelve-down filter, enabled or disabled by connecting or disconnecting circuit-board pins, is provided to control the cutting level through the last half-octave of the audible frequency range. High-frequency phase and amplitude response will alter substantially according to how this filter is set. Worse, the SX 74 cutter has a mechanical resonance at around 22kHz, above which the signal level cut on the disc falls off rapidly. This inevitably introduces additional amplitude and phase errors. Other makes of cutter-and earlier Neumanns-will behave differently, both electrically and mechanically, complicating matters still further.” www.stereophile.com/features/cut_and_thrust_riaa_lp_equalization/index.html Presumably best would be to introduce controllable RIAA deemphasis in the digital domain, but that would cut against the grain for purist audiophiles...

@marianneoelund2940

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonathansturm4163 And all the phono preamp suppliers love to show how accurate their RIAA de-emphasis curves are, while what they really need is something else. NAB tape curves are just as variable, changing with tape manufacturer, type and recorder bias. It's challenging to obtain a flat record-play response.

The pot was provided to make listeners think vinyl sounds good. Reeeeeef....

hi Im new in this hobby and i would like to know which phono pre amp (mm or mc)will fit my set up. Kenwood kd 500 -turntable SME 3009 s2 improved- tonarm v i5 type iv shure - needle

...and now, the contradictions began...

@3:31 (needle) and @4:27 (needle) There are no needles on or in a stereo. It is a stylus. Needles are for sewing and for flu shots. Yes, countless people call a stylus a needle -- and they are all wrong. However, most of them do not realize that it is a stylus, because reputable folks that have influence also call the stylus a needle (see timestamps, above). Please do not perpetuate mislabeling styluses as needles. Thank you.

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps what is the semantic difference? What if I called it a stylus needle...

@NoEgg4u

3 жыл бұрын

@@graxjpg I give up. Tell me. What if you called a stylus a needle?

....because why sell you a complete (insert thing here) when we can chop the gross sum total (thing) into many parts and components that rely upon one another in order to procure more profit from multiple sources? RIAA isn't necessary, it's a necessary evil. Big differenc.... Like extended warranty and income tax they are implements of greed. e.

WooHoo!! First here!!

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

Congratulations, you won a cookie,

@Graham_Shaw

3 жыл бұрын

@@graxjpg Yay! I like cookies 😁

@graxjpg

3 жыл бұрын

Graham Shaw good! All you have to do is go to the store and buy it. But tell them that you won and you should get a good deal.

@hugobloemers4425

3 жыл бұрын

Does that make you a narcissist?

@Graham_Shaw

3 жыл бұрын

@@graxjpg This winning lark isn't what it's cracked up to be. So now I need to go to the shops, and pay to buy a cookie? Where's the "winning" bit Grant? Is your Surname actually Trump?😂