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@michaelmorgan4793

Жыл бұрын

Join the hyper liberal poison boy army. Defend communism, embarrass your ancestors and peers. Why do you come off so soft?

@jacobgillispie1175

Жыл бұрын

Any chance we can get philosophy of Henri Lefebvre more specifically his works like Realm of shadows, State, Space, World: Selected Essays,Metaphilosophie: Prolegomena. Or alternatively a Philosophy of Primal Season 1,2.

@dominickjasso5500

Жыл бұрын

We must be kind to the individual and ruthless to the institutions. -Micheal Brookes

@ayriangoodrich9815

Жыл бұрын

You can tell this is a hit piece because it contains nothing but Critiques if you cared about truth you would find common ground an work from there as no philosophy is all encompassing. You seem to want to misunderstand on the basis of semantics.

@weatheranddarkness

Жыл бұрын

@@ayriangoodrich9815 I appreciate that as a tactic, but Peterson's whole project is based on fictions. Lobsters aren't even social creatures for pete's sake. I understand why he might be comfortable doing so, since Maps of Meaning is essentially an attempt to divine something useful from comparative compilation of legends and myths, and arcana, he's used to playing in a domain of fiction that's meant to represent the truths of the world. But he's more than semantically wrong here. Peterson is just flat wrong about the whole thrust and character of the work he's using as an example, that's a much more orthogonal problem than can be explained by a difference of opinion about the meanings of a few words.

Can we all just agree that he's not actually talking about philosophy.... he's railing against what he perceives as "woke" culture and is just using the names of philosophers to give his unhinged conspiracy theory tirades just enough intellectual credibility that people will think he actually has a decent point to make.

@tonypguitareok1

Жыл бұрын

What is “Woke” culture? What is he perceiving?

@theparagonal

Жыл бұрын

@@tonypguitareok1 Generally, Peterson actually acknowledges that there are indeed systemic issues with things- racism, classism, things like homeless people going hungry when there's no need for it- but any time any solution is proposed that threatens the status quo, just like everyone more to the right than a SocDem, he'll freak out.

@LordofRacoons

Жыл бұрын

So much of what he says is true though, it's not a conspiracy that "woke" culture has gone too far. Sure his not always correct but either is anybody else.

@alfredli6996

Жыл бұрын

@@LordofRacoons The problem is Jordan Peterson has marketed himself as some kind of brilliant thought leader, not a fallible individual like the rest of us.

@acorgiwithacrown467

Жыл бұрын

@@LordofRacoons "Much of what he says is true", its hard to watch his videos without cringing with all the mistakes he makes. His analogies are just nonsense sometimes. "Woke culture has gone too far", if it has indeed gone too far then what do you perceive as the right amount of woke culture?

I'm a psychologist reacting to a philosopher reacting to a psychologist pretending to be a philosopher. Fun times.

@Vagabond824

Жыл бұрын

Anyone can be a philosopher

@2gj906

Жыл бұрын

*Especially when they have a couple too many*

@AzygousWolf

Жыл бұрын

As he misquotes and misunderstand Sociologists

@allahbless2278

Жыл бұрын

@@AzygousWolf Nah socialists are scum

@AzygousWolf

Жыл бұрын

@@allahbless2278 Oh dear... Sociologists and socialists are two different things...

Its crazy how he equally seems and feels like he's going deep into details while not explaining anything at the same time. It feels like a cartoon version of a philosopher.

@elevenseven-yq4vu

9 ай бұрын

Not at all, rather like a cartoon version of a political con artists, doomsday prophet, snake oil peddler or cult leader.

@chaosjoerg9811

8 ай бұрын

@@elevenseven-yq4vu aww that's a little harsh to say about wisecrack

@mathdhut3603

8 ай бұрын

It's like JBP's parodying a philosopher. And it's deliberate. He's cosplaying what his target audience thinks a philosopher sounds like.

@Frodoswaggns

7 ай бұрын

You mean sophist

@MrMarinus18

6 ай бұрын

It is just a repackaging of Cultural Marxism. Even the idea of race identity was already something they accused cultural Marxism of, that Cultural Marxism made blacks identify with their race. Of course that is completely dismissing the idea that they might identify with their race because they were being oppressed. It's important to remember that people don't like to think of themselves as bad. Most Americans in the 1930's didn't think they were oppressing blacks and a lot of the systemic racism happened behind closed doors in quite subtle ways and most popular resistance against desegregation was build on lies.

Reminds me of Ayn Rand in the utter cluelessness of his commentary. He has no idea what he's talking about, and yet Peterson pronounces his verdicts with absolute confidence.

@sempressfi

Жыл бұрын

Lol yep and they/their work are both part of the right wing libertarian extremist pipeline 🙄

@spiritualanarchist8162

2 ай бұрын

Same level of hypocrisy as well. Rand ranted against social programs and raved about how great libertarian -capitalism is ,eventhough she studied in the Soviet Union for free, , and then used the U.S system to pay her hospital bills. Peterson enjoyed the affordable Canadian education, and used some expensive way to get rid of addiction ,while ranting against social democratic programs and telling people they should 'man up 'and face the consequences of their actions. Just a few examples, but it;s all so silly.

@GeneralSamov

Ай бұрын

@@spiritualanarchist8162 Well, to be fair, he went to Russia to be put in a coma to be cleaned of his barbiturates addiction, because the western healthcare wouldn't subscribe to such practices. Still not defending his other arguments, far from it, just thought I'd leave that here.

@andreww4751

Ай бұрын

oh the irony.. you have no idea what you're talking about

@spiritualanarchist8162

Ай бұрын

@@andreww4751 'you have no idea what you're talking about '' Well, you I must say do give good arguments why it's supposed to be 'ironic'.

Peterson’s problem (at least in this context) has always been that he tries to insert his own current political interpretations into philosophy that existed before said ‘problem’ did. When he says postmodernists “don’t believe in biology” what he means is that the people he believes have taken up postmodernism as a core philosophy have in turn done something that invalidates biology (of course he’s talking about trans and non-binary people). Then what he does is incorrectly pushes that ‘problem’ onto the original philosophers’ works and citing it as intrinsic truth of the philosophy itself. Which is just not how any of that works. He uses multiple verticals that have nothing to do with each other to invalidate each one

@mephistosinner2

Жыл бұрын

post modernists push an ideology that revolves around removing long time constructs of society out, hes not inserting hes extrapolating. Traditional gender norms were attacked by post modernism, democracy, capitalism all hallmarks of the current system have been attacked by the philisophical ideologies of post modernist thought and Jordan explains all that in his full lectures.

@WisecrackEDU

Жыл бұрын

Couldn't have put it better myself! You really articulate why watching him talk about this stuff is so frustrating.

@TheRoyalWe762

Жыл бұрын

I wish the temperature where I lived was as low as your IQ.

@TheRoyalWe762

Жыл бұрын

there is intrinsic truth to biology how hard is that to understand.

@Qweertyyuiiop

Жыл бұрын

What matters is how old ideas are interpreted and used in the PRESENT. Nobody gives a fuck what those pedophiles were actually saying. What matters is how the insane leftists that prowl the universities are using those ideas

I love how a brief introduction to Foucault is immediately followed by an ad for an app that disciplines the micro-scheduling of your everyday life

@sayanbiswas7364

Жыл бұрын

THE PANOPTICON SEES YOU

@seandevine5836

Жыл бұрын

Biopower off the charts

@Dylan-tf4bv

Жыл бұрын

I swear that Wisecrack juxtaposes their ads with content that completely undercuts those ads on purpose - but they can't make it explicit because *then their sponsors will stop funding them*. I think it's clever.

@brennans2286

Жыл бұрын

The panopticon strikes again.

@sevaletoto

Жыл бұрын

Lol exactly, like the concept of technologies of the self

The recurring theme seems to be that JP doesn't really actually understand *philosophy* whatsoever, despite considering himself a practitioner

Listening to Jordan Peterson’s psychological analysis helped me immensely. I bought his future authoring program which I full heartedly believe contributed to the strengthening of my relationship with my partner, and with my estranged dad. JP gave me tools that I needed to become a force for good in my own life and that cannot be understated. However, I still don’t and probably never will have the tools to critically understand his opining about all of this post modernism stuff. Hearing him taken down like this by someone with a PhD in philosophy is painful, but I do need to understand the limits of JPs real knowledge. He’s not a politician, he’s not a philosopher, and he’s probably a huckster to some extent. But he did in a way, help me to save my life. And I’ll not forget that.

@tadeojablonski105

Жыл бұрын

This is a really weird paradox. Just like you, listening to JP’s self-help advice has truly helped me. On one hand, he is a great orator and his psychology lectures really are amazing. But on the other hand, he’s infamous for discussing economic, political and philosophical matters of which he clearly knows little about. He saves some people and misinforms others. Sometimes both.

@MrNicoJac

Жыл бұрын

I think Peterson is a great psychologist who has a lot to offer, especially to lost (younger) men. His ideas there seem solid and practical. But his analysis and thinking seems to quickly fall apart when he tries to extend his ideas to sociology and philosophy. He suddenly just becomes very cherry picking when it comes to his facts and interpretations... I hope this comment might help you accept two thoughts that seem to contradict each other initially. But it's perfectly reasonable to respect him in one field while discarding his opinion in another. (much like I wouldn't want a gardener, surgeon, and car mechanic to switch places when I need their help)

@williamcharnley5558

Жыл бұрын

I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s had this internal schism to deal with. It does go to show that you have to be the ultimate arbiter of when you listen to someone deeply because they have real practical wisdom, and when you just have to disregard what someone is saying because it’s just not useful, even if both of these things come from the same person. In a way, it makes me relax about feeling like I have to have some unrealistic amount of knowledge about multiple disciplines, which I just don’t.

@MrNicoJac

Жыл бұрын

​@@williamcharnley5558 I think that's a very wise conclusion to take away from this! And yeah, you're not alone :) I had a phase where I really liked Jordan's psychology stuff, and because that seemed so good, I figured that maybe he's right about the cultural/societal stuff too. That perhaps I was missing something that he saw. But over time I noticed that his conclusions became harsher while his evidence/reasoning got weaker. And eventually it reached a point where the dichotomy was too wide to continue to ignore. Which then made me question everything he'd covered before, of course. But I still think the psychological stuff tends to hold up. In the end, I saw it as a great lesson to always remain curious and humble about my own (lack of) knowledge. And that good/well-meaning people can be wrong too, especially outside their main field.

@williamcharnley5558

Жыл бұрын

@@MrNicoJac “But over time I noticed that his conclusions became harsher while his evidence/reasoning got weaker. And eventually it reached a point where the dichotomy was too wide to continue to ignore.” Yeah this is exactly what I experienced. Well put.

As a previous fan of Peterson who eventually found the truth, I want to layout why I got hooked to him in the first place. -I was a man, and felt I was under attack. He soothed my anxiety and paranoia. -I felt my own father was meek, and I knew in my head I wanted him as a father figure -He expressed his ideas in ways that seemed reasonable at the time, the way he talked. -That video of him and that news reporter willfully trying to twist his words seemed like proof he was right

@joeprice2813

Жыл бұрын

I think far too many members of society focus on the people, rather than the ideas. We live in an age where we have access to so much information at our fingertips and we're able to confirm or corroborate almost anything that anyone says, so it's rather ironic that people can still be so gullible and instead put their (blind) trust in individuals who are in positions of power or authority, including those in a position to spread their message to a wide audience via mainstream and social media. This happens when these individuals discuss something that resonates with you or is intuitively obvious to "hook" you in, and next thing you know you're also accepting ideas that are misleading, or just plain false. That this happens is arguably a failure of our education system (specifically here in Canada and the US), which does a piss poor job or guiding our students to be strong critical thinkers. Critical thinking, at it's heart, is challenging authority - not necessarily because one might think the authority is wrong, but because one wishes to develop and understanding of the topics at hand rather than accepting them without question just because they are coming from someone one might be conditioned to trust. Having said that, I think Peterson's rise to fame and his broaching of a wide variety of subjects that are relevant to modern Western societies is a net positive specifically because it sparks investigation and discussion (although quite frankly the video we're commenting under does a rather poor job criticizing Peterson's ideas regarding postmodernism, even though Peterson does demonstrably make claims that are factually incorrect). Yes, he has his "fans", but so does practically any individual with a large enough social media audience, and I would wager that the overwhelming majority of these modern day "influencers" present information or opinions that are orders of magnitude worse than what you hear from Peterson. But in the end all that should matter is the truth of it all, and not who says what, and given that there is often a jarring clash of claims and opinions and ideologies one would hope this would prompt the audience to try to resolve who is right and who is wrong for themselves instead of trusting any one side.

@ithinkiknowme6450

Жыл бұрын

I am a cis gender woman and I wholeheartedly agree and I'm literally praying that there's a gender transitional movement (the one which Dr Warren Farrell suggested) which will actually provide all the genders Equality in areas where they lack it... Earlier I might have supported the bs 'all men are evil' rhetoric but After studying some of Dr. Warren Farrell, Dr. Terrance Real and Bell Hooks ....It turns out men are experiencing more or less the same purposelessness and anguish that women did in the starting of the women liberation movement.... turns out that these Black pill sorta movements may be very destructive for men...I hope men's rights movement helps men without turning them into senseless misogynists...like Some toxic forms of Feminism have turned women into misandrists ...Even though Men's and Women's anger and fears are valid...we need a space where they can reconnect and share this pain with eachother instead so far the gender politics seems to be tearing us apart...

@michaelnelson8618

Жыл бұрын

@@joeprice2813 I'm curious about this whole thing, can't find anything wrong with his logic at my current level of knowledge. Can you give me an example of something Peterson gets wrong? Any info appreciated.

@michaelnelson8618

Жыл бұрын

@@McDonaldsCalifornia No, I am not interested in investing many hours to find any inconsistencies in the arguments of a man who is telling people all over the world to take responsibility for themselves and to not buy into the idea that the entirety of society is evil. I don't see this as a matter of deep, technical intellectual thinking; it's cute that you assume that I know nothing of debates and arguments just because of one KZread comment, but I assert that anyone who has a problem with him is just angry that he's telling them to take responsibility. I do definitely appreciate that you resorted to ad hominem attacks rather than leaving one singular example of him using bad logic. You have done a wonderful job of proving him right just like most of the other lazy morons who don't like him :)

@michaelnelson8618

Жыл бұрын

@@bonitabromeliads just say you've only seen clips 🤣 typical generalizer

This is literally why I quit being a philosopher. Not because my ideas didn't bring anything to the table (I mean they didn't. They were rubbish) But because people started taking my ideas out of context. And on one occasion quoted them back to me. Not knowing I was the author. And when they found out. Literally argued that I didn't understand my own work.

@LibertarianLeninistRants

Жыл бұрын

there is an argument for misreading as a possibility for advancement of thought, but it probably sucks if it happens to you

@lucmoore6176

Жыл бұрын

What was your philosophy about?

@Palemagpie

Жыл бұрын

@@LibertarianLeninistRants I do subscribe to a death of the author approach to most writing. And would say that the value the individual derives from the work. Is more important than the authors original meaning. But not when it comes to philosophy, and the ideas aren't exactly hidden in subtext.

@Palemagpie

Жыл бұрын

@@lucmoore6176 it's really not worth mentioning. It's was a doctrinal set of rules towards expression of free will and personal furfillment. Boiled down to their most simple and universal principles. Basically I talked to social workers, therapists, theologians, public and, and religious figures. Basically anyone I felt had influence over other people. Studied alot of historical and societal shaping individuals. Took this massive pool of data and ideas. And then wrote it down into....I think it was 28 or so small chapters of "rules" as I call them. Then argued why I felt they were important from both a personal to societal level as a positive influence.

@justinrobertson781

Жыл бұрын

@@Palemagpie Is there a place to read the rules? Sounds like a cool project. Lots of good data.

This just goes to show how important proper academic writing and formatting are! I bet if Peterson had to submit a list of references for what he had said about post-modernism, he would be a lot less radical and a bit more nuanced. But at the same time, he would not have become famous.

@Theobserver6897

Жыл бұрын

How is he radical he just has a different perception and take on the philosophy there’s a difference between disagreement and radicalism

@dr3dio

Жыл бұрын

James Lindsey has written extensively on “woke culture.” And his books are heavily cited.

@emilsundbaum5221

11 ай бұрын

Look into critical theory. It's filled to the brim with postmodernism masking itself as science. And it ussually has activism as its purpose for students taught it. So i don't reckon he did get it wrong.

@markhackett2302

11 ай бұрын

@@Theobserver6897 How is he not radical with his different perception? There's a difference between radical and disagreement. So put up.

@markhackett2302

11 ай бұрын

@@emilsundbaum5221 Critical theory is just a fox and rightwing talking point because you have nothing substantive.

The point isn't to be coherent or logically consistent, it's to make people scared so he can grift off of them by giving out solutions to problems that don't exist.

@paultapping9510

Жыл бұрын

he's just a better educated Alex Jones.

@garrettwilson4754

Жыл бұрын

​@@paultapping9510 Or at least one that sounds coherent because his articulation gives it the patina of erudition and it's peppered with a mélange of verifiable facts and truisms that give the illusion that all of it is like that if you're not well-informed on those specific topics and assume he's acting in good faith

@joebenson528

Жыл бұрын

@@garrettwilson4754 And then there are KZread commenters following him everywhere he goes.

@snoozyq9576

Жыл бұрын

Nah things like cleaning your room and standing up straight are helpful for real problems.

@mariam2964

Жыл бұрын

@@snoozyq9576 Things your parents should have taught you. They're so basic they're actually pre-basic.

It's remarkable how so many of Peterson's takes are based on like a half-remembered skim of wikipedia, and then just flatly projecting his personal grievances on the topic at hand and outright making up any connective tissue to make it fit.

@gs7828

Жыл бұрын

That's why he would never have a filmed discussion with a post-structuralist. He makes money playing around the "woke postmodern left" instead of acknowledging others. He's rediscovering warm water. But given the elitist attitude of the US system towards college access, he provides some generally good tips on how to improve one's life.

@azarinevil

Жыл бұрын

It also carries over into his psych work. His whole work in self-help is just CBT, as taught by someone who thinks it can fix every mental health issue.

@GreyPunkWolf

Жыл бұрын

Pretending to be any kind of authority figure with enough confidence to fool the masses is the key to success in influence related areas. That's Peterson's expertise. Not even alcoholism like his work suggests.

@vanguard9067

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

@Digitaaliklosetti

Жыл бұрын

​@@azarinevil ​you and I must have different reads on Jorbo's approach to psychology. That, or we think and mean very different things when we say CBT.

"There are times when we’re like horses, we psychologists, and get restless: we see our own shadows bobbing up and down in front of us. Psychologists need to stop looking at themselves if they want to see anything at all." - Friedrich Nietzsche

@oxherder9061

Жыл бұрын

This was the correct quote for this comments section, thanks

@FryJones

Жыл бұрын

Wow it's nuts how much this quote applies to Peterson

@joshnic6639

Жыл бұрын

@@FryJones His biggest thing is wanting to help other people and talking about other peoples problems and how hard it is for them. But…ok

@Bustermachine

Жыл бұрын

​@@joshnic6639 Sure. And I am fully willing to believe at some level Peterson is totally sincere in that sentiment. The thing is, a sincere desire to help people does not automatically equip you with the ability to actually help people. Many malignant narcissists, for instance, want to help people. And sincerely believe that they can. Not only that they can, but they can help better than anyone else. That if people would just listen to them, and their specific ideas, Utopia could be attained by next Tuesday! This historically has worked out about as well as you'd expect. Some of Peterson's advice is completely unobjectionable and good. But it's not unique to Peterson or to people like him. And some of his advice is essentially a quackery fusion of badly understood science and philosophy at best, when it's not outright harmful at worst.

@coreyc1685

Жыл бұрын

@@joshnic6639 If helping people was his biggest thing not many would have a problem with him. Unfortunately what few bits of sound self-help advice he gives is mashed up with hysterical McCarthyism, far-right conspiracy theories, hyper partisan politics, fear mongering about largely imaginary problems that make him blubber like a baby every five minutes and the overriding view that his self-help advice is ultimately insufficient unless society can be reverted back to some reactionary utopia that looks much more like the Islamic world than the West he claims to care about.

I am getting my Masters in Marriage and Family Therapy and we learn a lot about postmodernism from the beginning. The framing in this field is that postmodernism is a recognition that what have learned from psychology research so far has been heavily based on majority populations. Meaning, for much of psychology md medical research history, the people conducting, analyzing, publishing, criticizing, and even subjects within research were predominantly cis white men of status. However, modernists still hold to research as the end all be all of absolute truth. Thus, to be an inclusive and competent therapist, we need to broaden our ideas about experiences that might not have been represented and have not had a voice but ate equally valid to those reflected in research. There is more to it but this was a major part of what we learned. It is the humility of knowing what research says, and respecting the validity of it when applied to some, but not assuming it applies to all people in all contexts. Ethical application of treatments, for example, needs to include the comfort level and unique needs of the individual client, given their particular experience. Early therapists and modern based therapies prescribe what will be helpful for all people but this claim is only based on that group who were researched. Thus, ethical treatment needs to not claim the therapist as the absolute expert above what the client knows about themselves or chooses as their treatment goal. The best therapy helps clients determine what they want and helps them get there. It doesn't force them toward outcomes they do not consent to.

@rachels.8051

Жыл бұрын

This comment deserves more praise. So well stated.

@dionmcgee5610

Жыл бұрын

Well stated. Wish I could remember the particular medical issue - but it's a matter of medical history that some female medical procedures 7were devised without any women participating. The men assumed that they understood more about the women's bodies than the women did. Y'know, because they're women. The same hubris can be found throughout history, often with devastating unconsidered consequences- which is how the error of that mode of thinking was eventually recognized. We're talking many many many unnecessary deaths. Mammogram X-rays is one of the examples.

@ivanbukac4618

Жыл бұрын

I disagree with the statement about making clients do what they want. What if what they want is ultimately harmful? Like that lady who convinced her therapist to make her blind. Mental illness is in it of itself at odds with reality and should not be accommodated.

@Sarah-re7cg

Жыл бұрын

This is an incredibly well written comment and insightful. Thank you for sharing it. I’ve been watching KZread videos of newer therapists with master’s degree credentials and they have been continuously impressing me and it just brings me so much hope and joy thinking of all the people who will have the potential to be helped. The last part of your comment really resonates with me because it’s a recognition of personhood and autonomy for the client. So the client isn’t poked and prodded like a specimen or is invalidated or talked at.

@Sarah-re7cg

Жыл бұрын

Also, (I know this isn’t the same thing but it brings this to mind for me) the part where you said “Meaning, for much of psychology md medical research history, the people conducting, and even subjects within research were predominantly cis white men of status” made me think of how women and female anatomy were placed in relation to men and the male body. Which is so absurd I can’t not laugh at it lol it makes me think of Americans only thinking of other countries in relation to America and American culture 🤦🏻‍♀️

I love it when JP so clearly demonstrates why no one should take what he has to say seriously.

@thesilverbrow2382

Жыл бұрын

Most critiques of Peterson are like this. Just dismissive and unsubstantiated. I think that's part of the reason why he gets away with his rubbish.

@kasra_mlg

Жыл бұрын

@@thesilverbrow2382 when he says such outright blatent lies and twists, the only response is... "nope, that's not correct, BS" 😂 it's really hard to respond to someone who is making shit up

@jonathan4189

Жыл бұрын

The Tucker Carlson paradox

@connorryan3489

Жыл бұрын

@@thesilverbrow2382 I know right... its a group of brainwashed 18 year olds fresh out of sociology and gender studies class who think they are the next world genius. "He is wrong"- they say with no explaination, because to explain their argument is beneath them. Egotistical pricks... best to avoid them and their kind, watching them never get employed is the best retribution. I also know the owner of wisecrack would never bring his arguments to Jordan directly, he couldnt insult him and mis-understand him so easily and get away with it. Jordan would wipe the floor with this greasy egotistical retard

@amazin7006

Жыл бұрын

@@thesilverbrow2382 This video is 34 minutes what do you mean unsubstantiated?

It's as simple as this: he is treating postmodernist thought as though it is a monolithic ideological framework, when it is really a niche intellectual metaframework. It's fear mongering that deconstructing systems of power and knowledge is a slippery slope into burning it all down. In my opinion it is akin to the way that Christianity fearmongers about disbelief in God as temptation of evil.

@bobbybooshay5388

Жыл бұрын

it's probably not akin to it so much as exactly that but in long round about way. Peterson is by admission a traditionalist christian.

@bloodaonadeline8346

Жыл бұрын

He’s not even arguing against Derrida and Foucault. I’ve never even heard him mention either philosopher.

@thereluctanthipster6075

Жыл бұрын

Just substitute "post-modernists/ cultural Marxists/ globalists" with "Jewish people" and it makes more sense. And becomes less tolerable.

@anthonybrett

Жыл бұрын

@@bloodaonadeline8346 He mentions them a lot, and he doesn't like them, but then again, neither did Chomsky. Chomsky sits very much on the same page as Peterson when it comes Post Modern critique, as does Zizek in many aspects. They rally against the fundamental base of Post Modernism, which essentially says that there is no real truth or meaning. Peterson see's Post Modernism as an extension of Marxism. And I can see why, I mean the very people that came up with PM (Derrida etc) were all Marxists. Post Modernism is a foolish attempt to evade nature itself.

@vitoria.no.c

Жыл бұрын

This right here!!!!

When I was studying philosophy decades ago "Western philosophy" was a study of a very diverse spectrum of ideas and perspectives, often in stark contrast to each other. Speaking of "Western philosophy" as a monolithic thing is laughable at best, ignorant at worst. JP doesn't "defend" "Western philosophy", but some particular subset of "rugged Westernized idealism" that he confuses with the broader class of Western philosophy. Ultimately, I think JP loves the sound of his own voice, and seeks the praise of others who listen to him in order to feel themselves to be smart for the listening. He, like Shemp Bapiro, rarely truly engages in any kind of formal, long form debate, seeming to know he would find it too difficult in exchange for little recognition and even less praise.

@CollinMcLean

Жыл бұрын

Honestly when we try to group things into "East vs. West" it kind of feels more like a form of xenophobia in a way to alienate cultures that don't fit a eurocentric view of the world because how often when talking about "Western society" has the conversation ever included indigenous American populations or Latin America? Or what about Celtic groups like the Irish and the Welsh who were considered uncivilized by Anglicized cultures. Or even Greece which is considered the bedrock of western philosophy and civilization and yet in of itself was composed of so many squabbling city states with vastly different views from the Athenians to the Spartans to the Macedonians who were barely considered Greek. So much so that they warred with themselves more than they did with cities outside of Greece. It just feels like an attempt to alienate non-European ways of thinking and make them seem other as if there is any homogeny to be found between Ireland, Estonia, Sweden, Italy, France, England, and Lichtenstein when these countries have completely different cultures.

@KippyDemo

Жыл бұрын

@@CollinMcLean 100% agree. So many political media figures, American conservatives like JP in particular, like to use co opt phrases with the prefix of "Western" to propagate American exceptionalism and xenophobia, (most often sacrificing any grounded definition along the way) by treating it as an unquestionable good, equating it to democracy and basic morality, and any critique of it is an affront to civilized society itself It's gotten to the point where I can't hear those phrases in any context without wincing a little bit

@CollinMcLean

Жыл бұрын

@@KippyDemo It's like when conservatives say "Judeo-christian values" as if Judaism doesn't have a distinct set of rules and it's own form of worship. It's their way of pulling Judaism into their BS while alienating Islam by avoiding the term "abrahamic" because yes Christianity did branch from Judaism but it ignores how Judaism is fundamentally a culture and not just a religion with it's own set of values and has often clashed with christian faith in history.

@jemangerrit1747

Жыл бұрын

I disagree, with the last part. Jordan Peterson does engage in long form debates, quite a lot, with individuals that are arguably more respected then himself, such as Sam Harris. Take in consideration that it takes a lot of energy and time to prepare for such debates, at least, if you want to do them well, which I believe peterson does. So Jordan Peterson doesnt debate as much as your standard. I think its unwaranted to conclude that he does so because of recognition and praise. How often do people jump on someone elses character when they dont agree with them, before considdering that the other might actualy be doing their best? And how often is the character actually at fault? I think rarely. Considder the possibility that you are simpely attacking peterson on his character instead of his arguments as an easy way out. You would not be the first to do so

@chuckvincent5691

Жыл бұрын

@@jemangerrit1747 the original comment pretty much debunked Jordan Peterson’s take on philosophy before attacking his character. He was not just attacking his character. Peterson is so laughably uninformed on philosophy it’s a joke. He is a moron.

This is so interesting, thank you for this video. I love that you know Rancière! As a German philosophy student I usually expect for some things to get lost in translation (for example how I read Rancière might reduce the content of his work or how the French read Marx and Hegel). But I feel like Peterson deliberately reads them wrong and it makes me sad. "Don't question authority! Hierarchy is good! If you believe in biology, you have to believe in hierarchy!" He's kind of like the fox news version of Nietzsche screaming at me how the strong have the right to rule because they're strong.

@CollinMcLean

Жыл бұрын

An irony being Nietzche would likely frown upon that viewpoint since one of the major teachings of Nihilism is that things such as Hierarchies and social classes are pointless and have no meaning beyond what we assign them. Peterson's version feels more like Cynicism and Defeatism disguised as Nihilism.

@MrSamulai

Жыл бұрын

Ok I'm not a part of Peterson's PR team, but this hierarchy strawman really grinds me. He doesn't and never has advocated for hierarchies, only emphasized the importance of recognizing your inherent biological biases lest you allow them to control you. Are you sure you are not the one intentionally reading him wrong?

@tdog4153

Жыл бұрын

He never said don't question Authority or that all hierarchy's are good. He said that hierarchy's are inevitable and that all authority is not based on power and strength. Instead it is competence and merit that govern a hierarchy. You obliviously haven't heard him speak because he has defended your same accusation for years now.

@happygucci5094

Жыл бұрын

This 😂😭💀👌🏽

@longlifetometal1995

Жыл бұрын

@@CollinMcLean tbf Nietzsche would frown upon 90% of the stuff people him say

If you say Mr Jordan Peterson can be wrong, then riddle me this, before I knew of Mr Peterson my bed was messy, after Mr Peterson, my bed is made! That just happened! Mind blown?! I think so.

He takes everything very personal (even with dead people) because he doesn't know where he ends and everything else begins so he internalizes everything to where the world revolves around him in his perception. This is how he can be attacked by anything, because its "all about him".

@TheReluctantVlogger

Жыл бұрын

I’ve never heard anyone speak absolute BS and somehow make it seem accurate by using scholarly verbiage the way Peterson does. He’s good at seeming intellectual when he isn’t.

@janglandis773

Жыл бұрын

You could be talking about Trump with this comment.

@chasinggoats8155

Жыл бұрын

I have a feeling you struggle with this too.

@CplBaker

Жыл бұрын

@@chasinggoats8155 well since you're not psychic and no nothing about me keep your feelings to yourself. Maybe go to sleep next time instead of writing something so vapid.

@aesshole876

Жыл бұрын

​@@chasinggoats8155 I have a feeling you struggle with this too. 🥺

When listening to Peterson, the issue is you have to continually note some statements are just factually incorrect. If you interpret something starting from an incorrect fact, the interpretation is going to be incorrect.

@tonypguitareok1

Жыл бұрын

That’s why it’s always so important to never be charitable in interpreting him

@GiRR007

Жыл бұрын

Example?

@Anme96

Жыл бұрын

Example?

@MrGert150

Жыл бұрын

Example?

@tylorstreett7824

Жыл бұрын

The best example of him being wrong is his lobster theory and its his core argument for hierarchy

You could probably make an entire series called "Peterson misses the point of" and never run out of material

Jordan B Peterson is an absolute treasure. Remember he bases all his opinions on his decades of work as a psychologist and he isn't saying the authors are a threat, it's the idiots who take the philosophy to extremes.

Basically Jordan Peterson is just a social media influencer now, that’s how he makes money and that’s why he constantly exaggerates and always does the sky is falling thing.

@basvwbehej

Жыл бұрын

Screams too much too, and he gets heavenly aggressive if it's not his favorite position

@MarkWendland

Жыл бұрын

His daughter has done some interviews and is even more transparently grinding an axe. Good choice of videos here. He makes a lot of irresponsible errors in one place.

@elevenseven-yq4vu

9 ай бұрын

He does not "constantly exaggerate", he downright lies constantly. There is a huge difference between the two.

It’s so exhausting to react on Peterson, because most of his output is propelled by just this inability to accept counterarguments as arguments, if those might be able to contradict the petrified dogma. His denial is so painful to me. Edit (German boor forgot): Thank you for your fine education ❤ I enjoyed it a lot!

@MrOp99

Жыл бұрын

it's painful to many, I feel you

@JavierGomezX

Жыл бұрын

If that's what you say of a professional who constantly engages in dialogue with diverse kinds of people, as well as participate in actual research to the point he is one of the most quoted psychologist in North-America, shouldn't you also admit to yours and Wisecrack's own bias? When was the last time you have seen Wisecrack engaging in a dialogue instead of taking a couple excerpts from a 30 minute long lecture and then taking your sweet time picking it apart before recording a one-sided response with the luxury of having Google while you write your essay? If Jordan misinterprets Post-Modernist philosophy, don't you think it is possible for you or Wisecrack to misinterpret Jordan's philosophy. After all, you seem to believe Jordan is a simple defender of the status quo, even though anybody that actually knows his beliefs also knows Jordan understands the importance for our current knowledge and wisdom to be actualized constantly through challenge.

@thomasj4370

Жыл бұрын

@@JavierGomezX lol no. Maybe he was some serious psychologist but he has no clue of philosophy. And this is actually pretty easy to spot, e.g., as he completely fails to »debunk« the communist manifest by simply not knowing any of it. He might indeed have some pretty decent expertise in some field - but philosophy ain’t it. For sure!

@alexlubinski7795

Жыл бұрын

@@JavierGomezX All your arguments are simply rhetorical and have no substance whatsoever. He's a psychologist mostly working with personality questionnaires such as EPQ (Big Five) which is actually considered to be quite an easy job as these kinds of things always bring some kind of results and it's highly quotable as it's what most of the outside world wants from psychology scholars: evaluation tests. I won't deny his expertise on that, he's got quite an impressive impact factor and maybe his work advanced the field in some way: though not to a degree that got his name into any textbooks I read during my education and outside of his shenanigans with being a (alt-)right-wing influencer almost nobody would hear of him. The fact that he feels that he can present himself as an expert in terms of postmodernism, cultural marxism (is that even a scientific term? I don't think so) and the rest of this stuff is just appaling.

@neliiinhu

Жыл бұрын

@@alexlubinski7795 (alt) right wing influencer !! AHAH ! That made me laugh, thank you!

As an auditory learner I cannot stress how much I appreciate your videos, thank you!

I used to listen to Jordan Peterson quite regularly, when I was 16-17. The things he said made quite a lot of sense to me at the time, because I didn't know any better. Now coming here and watching your video, and seeing all the criticisms of the person I used to admire, is a weird experience. However, I relish the opportunity to learn, so thank you for explaining how he is wrong in some of his ideas and rhetoric, sometimes dangerously so

@Joram647

Жыл бұрын

Everyone has blind spots. Peterson is certainly no exception, and it's important to listen to others people's criticisms so that you can have a fuller picture of situations, world views, and the like. This is going to be even more important going forward after Peterson chose a very clear side in the culture war after he partnered with Daily Wire. The motivation and ability for people to poke holes in his world view is going to be much higher now. I personally welcome this opportunity, but it's important to keep in mind that the majority (or at least plurality) of people giving their opinions on Peterson these days are going to be politically motivated one way or another. That doesn't invalidate criticism, but knowing what motivates someone tells you their potential blind spots and helps one get a fuller picture of things going forward.

@joeh952

Жыл бұрын

Nobody over the age of 16 should take Peterson seriously.

@tomisaacson2762

Жыл бұрын

@@Joram647 I agree. Knowing that a lot of what JP says about philosophy, Marxism, and postmodernism comes from Stephen Hicks, a Randian Objectivist whose seems equally ignorant of post-Kantian philosophy as Ayn Rand herself (which is saying a lot), clarifies a lot about why JP has the gaping blind spots and political motivations that he does.

@WideAwakeHuman

Жыл бұрын

Tell me about what he’s saying that’s “dangerous”

@domhuckle

Жыл бұрын

Jp was either always a bad faith actor couching his ideas under a guise of self-help, or he might genuinely have drifted that way and took his fans along for the ride Long time ago, I thought he was pretty on point, along with sam Harris and others of the intellectual dark Web. Critical thinking is they key and I think some of these guys have let their egos take control

As someone who has enjoyed a lot of Jordan Peterson's discussions in the past, I find this very fascinating. I love it when arguments by pop culture philosophers get deconstructed and I think you did a pretty good job breaking down his arguments. I think you are absolutely right that it very much seems like JP is making up some kind of straw man to fight against in a lot of his lectures. It was especially enlightening for you to break down his sources. Keep up the good work!

@Nverdis

Жыл бұрын

I mean, he's basically like "If you have a different idea of how humanity should be, that's borderline Nihilist." Soooooorrrrryyyy that I think I can have better ideas than my ancestors lol

@DantePallidio

Жыл бұрын

@@Nverdis we stand on the shoulders of giants haha. I think your right that we can have better ideas as we go along. I think it's very fatalistic to think we cant develop something better

@ayriangoodrich9815

Жыл бұрын

@@DantePallidio I do believe it’s more of a conversation on the retention of tradition witch may have its side effects but so does the complete abandonment of tradition. I don’t think ether of these people are wrong just different opinions.

@randyt3558

Жыл бұрын

Strawmen? Peterson's a hay field....corporate sized.

@DantePallidio

Жыл бұрын

@@randyt3558 hey hey hey. Your not wrong

he is so good at making stupid people feel smart

@guccimane8941

9 ай бұрын

I guess I’m stupid

@SebbyPlaysMusic

9 ай бұрын

@@guccimane8941 I mean, if you did research, you wouldn't have to guess. XD

Don't know how you can listen to so much JP and not go crazy....

Descartes walked into a bar. The bartender asked him if he would like a beer. Descartes responded, “I think not.” Immediately, Descartes disappeared.

"I'm gonna stay in my lane today." Something JP hasn't thought in a long time.

I dated and lived with a philosopher for 5 or 6 years. I had to actually learn this kind of things just to hold my own in discussion/argument with her. She would utterly mangle him. We didn't make it as a couple, but I give her all the credit for the knowledge and interest in philosophy and debate of said philosophy.

The point around 11:00 that post-modernists aim at dismantling academia and traditional discourse is pretty ironic, since it is the neo-con version of free-market economics that is in favour of reducing funding to traditional humanities and more recent social science faculties. The neo-con view is that these are non-vocational disciplines and should only be open to people who can afford to study them under their own financing. In this, as so much else, Peterson is pointing at the Marxists as seeking to dismantle the very things which social democracy has given to western societies, when in fact it is his reactionary conservatism which is actively, before our very eyes, defunding these social institutions and practices.

I was first introduced to Jordan Peterson by people who insisted that I would like him because he tried to fix human behavior within biology and physical realities, which is what I have long done in my own research as an archaeologist. I looked into some of his lectures, and pretty quickly figured out that they guy knew absolutely nothing about anthropology or archaeology, but was very good at picking up descriptions of the social sciences that sounded good to support whatever he was saying to his audience, whether or not they were accurate representations of the actual state of the social sciences generally. I did come across a lot of what he had to say about post-modern philosophy, and based on what I had read, I kept thinking "well, THAT doesn't sound right!" but as I don't have a background in philosophy, I never engaged in argument with anyone about that as I would be out of my depth. Sounds like he treats philosophy just as he treats anthropology - with zero consideration of what is actually said and written, but as a great place to start hollow polemics.

@dondevice8182

Жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@little_flitter

Жыл бұрын

The thing that annoys me most about JP, isn't JP. It's his fans and people who follow him who know very little about philosophy but think they know a lot because they've followed JP for awhile. We need more people like you. People that can admit when they don't know something. I know there's tonnes of stuff I don't know but hearing JP speak on stuff he has clearly never read is infuriating.

@afarensis16

Жыл бұрын

@@little_flitter Yeah, and unfortunately, this isn't unique to him. I meet a lot of people who think that they know a lot about economics and government because they read Ayn Rand (yeah, a poor low-science fiction writer is a great guide to how governments work, guys), or who think that they understand both farming and genetic engineering after reading Michael Polan's books (Pollan is more sophisticated in his fudging of facts than Perterson, and his target is agriculture not academia and society, but the techniques are very similar), and so on. It's frustrating.

@little_flitter

Жыл бұрын

@@afarensis16 totally agree with you. I think if anyone is particularly hooked on any specific speaker they are suggestible to whatever they belive. I remember someone suggesting Pollen to me a while back, I read one or two things, watched one or two and got bored with the lack of citations that would usually lead me down millions of rabbit holes. I find Alan Watts also has had this affect on people. These types of people are correct sometimes, insightful sometimes and narcissistic almost always. Anyone that perceived as a guru or an arbiter of truth is, very rarely trustable.

@Justuas

Жыл бұрын

you could say that about everyone

This work is so so important.There cannot be enough videos deconstructing Peterson's views on philosophy because he is leading so many people astray. I remember reading a book he recommended called Explaining Postmodernism, which is riddled with incorrect statements about philosophy and the history of philosophy. At the time, I didn't know that and took the contents of the book at face value, as I was new to philosophy. In one of my philosophy class discussions at university, I mentioned that Kant's philosophy was postmodern, which is so laughably wrong. My professor looked at me funny but was kind enough to refrain from tearing me a new one in front of class. Needless to say, I looked into it more and learned how bad the book that Peterson had recommende was. Inexcusable for him to be promoting and parroting such sloppy thinking. Great work on discussing these philosophical ideas.

@joetheperformer

Жыл бұрын

The only people who’s being led astray is the idiots who have no idea how to extract wisdom where it’s present.

@hattielankford4775

Жыл бұрын

Seems like Peterson is to philosophy as Dr Oz is to medicine. And politics.

@OpiatesAndTits

Жыл бұрын

@@hattielankford4775inda the dude steals most of his shit from Joseph Campbell’s mono myth and William S Linds writing on “political correctness”. I’d imagine reading Pat Buchanan’s book on cultural Marxism and probably Andrew Breitbart’s biography would elucidate more. There’s a whole whacky world of conservative philosophy like the New Thought movement, Ayn Rand’s objectivism, the Bell Curve etc. they maintain their own separate universities, think tanks, media, and literature so it’s often difficult to understand why people like Peterson are the way they are. Strangely they all seem to not talk about their intellectual roots. The Bell Curve takes research from literal white supremacists and neo nazis who like used data on black student’s educational attainment in occupied African nations or apartheid South Africa. They only ever talk about the Bell Curve which launders that crap. I’ve never seen Peterson mention Campbell or Lind by name despite clearly plagiarizing their work. He only ever mentions Jung and like Russian novelists. I guess those are safer sources?

@ntodd4110

Жыл бұрын

You're a person of honor. Thank you for your story.

@sw.7519

Жыл бұрын

Focault IS a fake.

As a university student in Toronto myself, I can say that Marx and Foucault were very popular in my anthropology BA, and to a lesser extent Derrida

Stoked I just stumbled on yout Chanel. Great stuff! 😎🤙

I like you doing a video like this. You should do more stuff on modern real-world people. Don't get me wrong I love the Rick and Morty and pop-culture stuff, but it was cool to see a rebuttal to people that use philosophers to talk about their own beliefs.

Жыл бұрын

Yes! Pleas more!

@WisecrackEDU

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Robert! We'll definitely try more videos like this in the future.

@Clewnkaart

Жыл бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU But do take care of yourselves! It seems this took a lot of effort!

@suzygirl1843

Жыл бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU Jordan Peterson needs to stay in his lane. Westerners need to stay away from Africa. Their philosophies don't apply. When people are individualistic in Africa it's a disaster because there are often no regulation and predatory third parties involved and no protection for the locals

@suzygirl1843

Жыл бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU Maybe the reason why the Left does this is because The Right is unaccommodating to the needs of the Left. A lot of black people are Conservative but don't feel welcomed by the Republican side so they defer to the Left.

As a PhD candidate in philosophy of education with a French bachelor and master degree in philosophy, I'm quite familiar with both Foucault and Derrida, and have been consistently provoked by Jordan Peterson's oversimplified critique of 'post-modernism' (even more considering how secure he seems to be when speaking of it, in spite of his lack of formal education in philosophy). It is very valuable for public deliberation to have people like you that nuance bombastic claims about the vast field of philosophical thinking.

@MGSVxBreakpoint

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but, like... that means people have to, like... think and stuff. That's not fun.

Love it. Keep on wise cracking.

Jordy Pordy has, down at the studs, an in-built assumption that the pre-lapserian society he imagines he lives in (or used to live in) is the proverbial "best of all possible worlds" and thus it is insulated from all crticism. Criticism in the sense of proposing different ways that the world could be. He likes his idea of the world very much, and seems to be convinced that people who disagree with him do so because they KNOW he is right secretly and are trying to hoodwink the sheeple into destroying themselves. I don't think he can conceive that a person could genuinely, in good faith, have different ideas about what they want the world to be. There is no room for more than one idea in Jordy's world. There is "the way things are and should be," and "various wrong corrupted versions of that way that some bad people invented to attack us (read: attack me personally)." That's the sense I get from listening to him.

Thanks for doing this. I am a psychologist and I know that many of the claims that JP makes about our field are often overstatements, misinterpretations, or accurate-enough, but one-sided. But I lack the background to critique his handling of philosophy (and some other topics he wades into). This helps me to see that he is even less reliable the further from psychology he strays.

@teenkitsune

Жыл бұрын

Surprised he makes such claims about the field of psychology considering he himself is a professor if clinical psychology, which frankly I'm surprised he even is as I can point out many of the inaccuracies in his understanding of the field.

@hogannull7022

Жыл бұрын

No one on this blue turning rock hurling through multiversal space ever took time out of their God forsaken day to ever to patiently yet intelligently tell him that quantity of perfunctory thesaurusical words vehemently spoken does not necessarily directly perfectly correlate to the overall empirical quality of said words. Like, less it's more, brah.

@LeviLan4bcitu

Жыл бұрын

@@teenkitsunemay I get an example?

@brennans2286

Жыл бұрын

He constantly rants about psychometrics but has no background or publications in psychometrics. As for his philosophy it’s basically just hysterics about leftism in general. He’s annoying, and his acolytes are the worst.

@brennans2286

Жыл бұрын

@@hogannull7022 yeah he’s big into word salads.

The thing he said about postmodernists not believing in biology is just a dig at trans people

@republitarian484

Жыл бұрын

or the truth.

@RuneDrageon

Жыл бұрын

@@republitarian484 If you read some actual biology that's more than your high school textbook you might change your mind.

@republitarian484

Жыл бұрын

@@RuneDrageon . . . so the entirety of human history has been a social construct right?

@RuneDrageon

Жыл бұрын

@@republitarian484 Since civilization is techincally a social construct, yes. But that is now what you were about. Remember, sex and gender are different and gender is a social construct that doesn't or barely exists in other species.

@republitarian484

Жыл бұрын

@@RuneDrageon . . .LOL. . . OK. . .whatever you say. Sex and Gender are closely aligned and that alignment has much to do with biology. Only a fool would look at the entirety of human history as an oppressive patriarchal construct.

I respect Peterson's views on this subject more than the nay-sayers for one simple reason: Peterson confused the philosophy of Postmodernism with what it was describing, while the nay-sayers focus only on his interpretive errors while missing the point. I am always surprised by philosophers' inability to see philosophical theories at play in the world around them. For example, the philosophy student in this video claims that postmodernist thought is yesterday's news. No. Postmodernist thought has been hindered by postmodernism, which means it is more relevant than ever and will continue to be for many years. For example, Peterson's point about biology does seem funky and is, literally, erroneous. However, his argument is valid viz. the effect of Pluralism and simulacra on the concept of biology (btw, he's talking about transgender people, mostly). I often wonder what Baudrillard would have to say about how we've relativized gender, creating simulacra of the binary gender framework (the map becomes the topography it is meant to represent). There are other points that went over this KZreadr's head, but I don't really have the time. Maybe I will write a detailed paper on it since this comment is not going to do justice for people willing/intelligent enough to understand what I am trying (failing) to say. TL;DR Jungian that he is, Peterson is trapped in the symbolic realm of postmodernism and is confusing it for the concrete philosophy and its philosophers. How this KZreadr didn't see that is beyond me.

As someone who doesn’t like Mili, apples, myself, I recommend the thumb test. Try to press your thumb into an apple as hard as you can and if there is resistance, it’s good to eat if it gives at all, put it back.

Loving the more “off the cuff” teacher vibes Michael.

@WisecrackEDU

Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much!

@RTB1400

Жыл бұрын

I second this!

@internalizedhappyness9774

Жыл бұрын

@@WisecrackEDU this video was nice, you did good. Keep on keeping on.

@damancandance1

Жыл бұрын

yessssss! found myself kinda in that style too, teaching swimming and art. so much more engaging and casual, especially when learning new thing

Peterson thrives by reducing his very limited understanding to everyday tropes that resonate with non-reflective everyday people, rewarding them with the sense that they finally understand things when they actually do not. "Thanks to Jordan I'm finally smart!"

@AlanLamb11

Жыл бұрын

Peterson comes across as more articulate than most present speakers who acknowledge complexity and his presentations simplifies to the point the unwary to accept his statements on his authority alone. When you actually check many of his statements they rest on shaky interpretations or are flat out wrong in most areas outside of his core expertise. Within his sphere of expertise it is much more difficult to pin him to any claims that are provably false but he does equivalize broad topics to his own interpretation of observed results.

@nicolesmith2808

Жыл бұрын

So perfectly well put!

@itsROMPERS...

Жыл бұрын

@@nicolesmith2808 I wanna think you mean me, but I'm afraid you actually mean him! Although I think his comment is very much on-point so, it's a win-win.

What Jordan Peterson misses the point of I could just about squeeze into the Grand f***in' Canyon.

Coming back to this like a year later. Incredible how far he has fallen

If Peterson (the person) were to engage in self-reflection and personal growth, he'd cease being Peterson (the personality).

Listening to JP is like being in a museum where western culture and philosophy is in a glass case where you can look at it but you can't touch it.

@paultapping9510

Жыл бұрын

a museum where each of the exhibits is just a child's drawing of the subject in question

@cadekachelmeier7251

Жыл бұрын

That's a good way of putting it. I always feel like when I hear him speak, I never really hear any real claims. Everything is so vague and abstract that it barely feels like he's talking about anything.

@McDonaldsCalifornia

Жыл бұрын

@@cadekachelmeier7251 he really won't let himself get pinned down but he is always sort of working to these really problematic points. Yet when called out he always has an out that way. Incredibly dishonest

@MrJlin1982

Жыл бұрын

What is perfect,Christina. It's sacred. I hate the left, because they want to destroy the world and Western culture. Next it's nihilistic. The french revolution was the begin of the end and diabolic

@paultapping9510

Жыл бұрын

@Max We so you'd actively rather have wealth and power exclusively in the hands of a degenerate and deeply self-interested, nepotistic, ruling class? Because that's what the french revolution overthrew. I mean, you know in that system you would be serf right? It's a shame robespierre was a complete fuckin psychopath.

Well. Most people following Peterson came to him through his Bible and psychology lectures. To bad most bible followers just want to hear what suits them. Which includes mostly a conservative mindset. And he knows this. Because one thing is for sure. Mr. Peterson isn't stupid. He taught psychology. He knows his audience. And as he would describe: as someone high in conscientiousness, it is no wonder he is more on the side of order rather than chaos. Also you can get people who are like this easier to pay for shit. Make people believe we are in chaos who love order. Tell them you are on the frontline of defeating that chaos, or even better, be humble, say you don't want to fight the fight, but you have to. Makes you even more heroic. Which is exactly what Peterson has done.

@PawlovsDogg

5 ай бұрын

But this just shows how good he was at teaching. If you know his shit, you are capable of deconstructing him yourself. It's not like his knowledge on personality is bullshit.

I see a lot of apparently willful misunderstanding in this. For example, what Peterson said about post-modernist thinking permeating bureaucracies does not mean that the bureaucrats are avid readers of Derrida and Foucault. It just goes on.

@dylanvw1

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely

“Postmodernism was on its way out when I started grad school.” Anybody else dying to know what was on its way in???

@Pllayer064

Жыл бұрын

Postpostmodernism.

@a.m.hofmeister725

Жыл бұрын

We don't quite have a name for it, but in general it's a scattering of Critical Theory, which attempts to acclimate and swap between historical theory lenses as you observe any particular subject.

@a.m.hofmeister725

Жыл бұрын

Another good name is Metamodernism.

@880330145789

Жыл бұрын

obviously a prequal - premodernism

@Deathwept

Жыл бұрын

That’s the beauty of post modernism, they can change its definition at any point. So he was right, the definition was probably on it’s way out but post modernism definitely stayed! 😂

Jordan B Peterson is sophistry in a nut shell.

So when Peterson is talking about postmodernists not accepting biology, he’s most likely talking about trans people. And when he’s talking about privilege there’s a good chance he’s talking about white privilege and/or patriarchy. He has said he’s “horrified” by the idea that people believe that western society could really contain such things.

@KaelWrit

Жыл бұрын

precisely what I came here to see if anyone had said yet. If you know about him & other far right propagandists like him, you can read between the lines. I guess if you don't, it seems especially baffling.

@joebenson528

Жыл бұрын

@@KaelWrit Patriarchy: "a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is traced through the male line." This doesn't exist in the West, but even if it did how is it bad? Are you capable of giving examples of what the "far-right" is and how Peterson fits that mold?

@Chaosmancer7

Жыл бұрын

@@joebenson528 Um, what do you mean by Patriarchy not existing in the West? The idea of sons inheriting their Father's position, power, and belongings in incredibly common, and that is descent through the male line. The idea of someone's family name being carried on (only possible with a male heir they will say, because the male's name takes precedence) is incredibly common. Heck, I was quite uncomfortable at my uncle's wedding some years ago when they went hard into the Bible for Ephesians 5:22-24 and the idea of the woman being subservient to the man as the Church is subservient to Jesus, and how she should worship the man as the man worships Jesus. If I didn't know my Uncle was a good man who would treat his wife with love, kindness and respect, I'd have been beyond horrified by the language they used in their wedding. Which is entirely based upon this idea of the Patriarchy. Thinking of wedding traditions, the Father gives the Bride to the Husband, that is Patriarchy right there, the family Head is the Father and then the Husband, and so the wife is passed from one Head to another, in a completely subservient form. So... it definitely exists. As for why that is bad, it explicitly declares that half of all human beings are subservient to the other half. It leads to incredibly toxic things, such as machismo and men who declare things such as the fact they never would allow their wife or girlfriend to have her own opinion. You can perhaps say that isn't the patriarchy, but it is a natural occurence when you place the value solely on maleness and the position of primacy taken by a Father (not a Grandfather, notably, who often is depicted as having lost the physical might and fervor of his youth) and tracing the family primarily through Father-Son relations.

@happygucci5094

Жыл бұрын

@@Chaosmancer7 As a bi black member of the woman delegate I STAN this comment 💯😂🙌🏽

@twiztedsynz

Жыл бұрын

@@Chaosmancer7 I'd also point out that people who are part of some religious sects (Mormons, Some branches of Evangelical Christianity, for example) also exemplify the patriarchy. Daddy-daughter dances (which if anyone hasn't seen, it's horribly cringworthy and bordering on ick) where daughters are given 'promise' rings to hold themselves 'pure' for their future husbands. So yes, the patriarchy is DEFINATELY still alive and well in the West.

Great video. I've been further confirmed in my hypothesis. Jordan Peterson is at best a man who doesn't understand modern philosophy, or at worst understands it, but twists the message to make a strawman ideological antagonist to appeal to his target audience.

@nataliekhanyola5669

Жыл бұрын

It's both.

Whenever Peterson starts crying, I hear the song "Ave Maria" play in my head XD

Phenomenal. It is actually pretty darn scary seeing just how obviously and willfully wrong Kermit’s views and interpretations are.

@ttt69420

Жыл бұрын

They're reductive, but not necessarily wrong.

@josephnapolitano5864

Жыл бұрын

@@ttt69420 Did you watch the video you are commenting under? At best he was being reductive. At other points he was just straight up lying and putting words in other philosophers mouths.

@ttt69420

Жыл бұрын

@@josephnapolitano5864 Not really. Just saying how his philosophy is being applied to politics.

@galenerso1594

Жыл бұрын

Kermit was always problematic. He even married a pig, going against the rule of marrying within the same species.

@shabbaranks7968

Жыл бұрын

@@ttt69420 let it go, your old wise sage on a mountain turned out to be a pill popping narcissist

It fascinates me how he disguises the emptiness and simplicity of what he is actually saying behind unnecessary sophisticated sounding language. It seems like a manipulation tactic to persuade people who don't have a clue what he is talking about to begin with. "This guy sounds super smart, just like all those other smarty-pants I don't like. I have no idea what he's talking about, but I guess I'll just go with him!"

@warrior_of_liberation

Жыл бұрын

I am glad that I ain't the only one who thinks that. Why people fall from this? 😂😂😂

@LunaticReason

Жыл бұрын

So you're argument is he sounds super smart he must be a fraud?

@ZachariahWiedeman

Жыл бұрын

@@LunaticReason No, that's not even close. 😂

Thank you for digesting and framing this for us. Idk if I could’ve gone through this without taking on a few months of muck to shake off, lol

Thank you for presenting your arguments in a clear, concise, controlled way. I love critical thinking, wanted to hear your counter-arguments to Peterson, am exhausted by excessive sarcasm. While I have found some of Jordan Petersons ideas constructive in my own life, I have also heard him speak on subjects he does not seem to have a solid understanding of, that is disappointing, it is true.

Kudos to Michael for not just going "this is complete bullshit" after everything peterson says

@hilaofek4426

Жыл бұрын

Also Michael you're right about apples

@akap

Жыл бұрын

Must be difficult, considering the staggering proportion of it that is complete bullshit.

@enbyglitch

Жыл бұрын

Wouldv'e been within his rights haha

@kweightthree

Жыл бұрын

We all thought it anyways. It was implied.

@juvedoo99

Жыл бұрын

He did do that by deconstructing Peterson’s incorrect analysis .

What's frustrating about JP is that some of his advice on motivation and self-actualization is solid and it's not like he's an uneducated or unintelligent person. His problem is that he lets political biases steer his understanding of things that lie on the fringe of his qualifications. And a lot of the people he appeals to don't care that he doesn't stay in his lane, because they like the things he says there. His association with PragerU means people find him through the right wing pipeline, and they don't actually mind that JP's not a biologist, because they like that he insults trans people.

@lereverendryan

Жыл бұрын

I used to venerate the guy, I was going through a really hard, dark time, and fell ass backwards into his early stuff, and it really helped me out. But as of late I find he’s been consumed by his status and has diluted his work. I still admire and abide to a lot of his earlier work, but as of late I just find him angry and all over the place. It’s tough..

@vitocorleone3764

Жыл бұрын

I agree that he does actually help people; however, all his advice could be found in one form or another in any old self-help book. He dresses his very basic advice in supposed ironclad philosophy which gives him false authority. It also allows him to slip in his biases and backwards thinking under the radar. If you want self-help advice, all of his tips are online by better authors and they won't cost you 20 quid.

@firemermaid1980

Жыл бұрын

His feeling define his facts. I mean we all do this, but I find people on the right like to hide behind "definitive facts" while ignoring the role that their feelings play.

@JackSparrow-re4ql

Жыл бұрын

He is the very definition of unintelligent and uneducated. You just have not seen enough footage of Petersons awesome stupidity. This man is the incarnation of the Dunning Kruger effect, but he's also a con man. Whether or not he's self-conscious of his own lack of intelligence, or actually believes in his own brain farts; does not really matter. He's a pseudo intellectual who creeps his way up the social ladder with his *confidence* . Confidence without knowledge is the hallmark of the con man.

@GomushinGirl

Жыл бұрын

@@vitocorleone3764 Most of his actually helpful advice doesn't even need books ~ it's the basic stuff people are advised to do all the time. I'm willing to bet most of his adherents have been told to clean their rooms before by their parents, but JP says it and suddenly it's PHILOSOPHY!

You stated at the end what I was feeling throughout the video. I have no clue what JP is talking about. I see JP and I see someone with a PhD and thousands of citations. An unbelievable number. In my younger years I would, and did combine my ignorance of what he speaks about with my perception of his authority to immediately believe what he has to say. And I think that realization is what he considers to be a threat to "western thought" or whatever, because classical thinking is to just accept the things you're told by people you or society perceive as higher in the hierarchy. Even with this video I still don't really know what post modernism is about, but I feel like throughout the last several years JP has been speaking against the 'dangerous thinking' of questioning people in authority. If I began thinking for myself instead of letting him think for me, he loses his position of power.

I think the strawman that Jordan Peterson is arguing against is other university colleagues that have interpretations of Foucault and Derrida. To me, that’s why he’s got an agenda without a person to tag it to.

The main thing i took from this is: he mentions Foucault and Derrida, but he isn't talking about their Postmodernism. It seems to me like he read somewhere that the "far left extremist" ideas derived from Postmodernism, that those two were the main philosophers behind it, and puts their name it to sound like he went to the source and studied to be able to fight it effectively. this video illustrates pretty well that the only thing he does is simplify too much, strip away all the complexity so much that it becomes absurd, and use the fact that it is now absurd to win the argument. His lectures on Maps of Meaning and 12 Rules for life resonated with me a lot, but the more i see his speeches being analyzed and debunked like here the more i realize outside of his own little corner, he is just a man with very strong ideas and very good speech, but with little to no knowledge or regard for other's ideas.

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

he's probably a good self help psychologist for individuals. His FOS-ness is because of everything else he talks about

@wearwolf2500

Жыл бұрын

He seems to make a lot of statements of fact, "X is Y, A thinks B", but often if you start digging those statements are a lot more complicated then he presents. I doubt all postmodernists agree on everything but he presents it as if they do. Who's doing collective identity and neglecting the individual now?

@OpiatesAndTits

Жыл бұрын

I am pretty sure he got most of his critiques of post modernism from William S Lind’s “political correctness: a short history of an ideology” and maybe associated works by people like Pat Buchanan on cultural Marxism. Pretty sure maps of meaning is just Joseph Campbell’s work in “the power of myth” and his idea of the so called Mono myth with a bit Jungian philosophy thrown in for good measure. (It’s been awhile since I’ve listened to him extensively). I read PoM a decade ago and conservative writing I don’t really have the stomach to read I mostly have to go by critique. I should try harder though. Conservative intellectuals read these things (I mean they sell or get distributed so someone’s reading them). Even just paying attention to the essayists working for some of the snooty conservative papers and think tanks can go a long way because the panic over Critical Race Theory (not entirely new) was largely the brain child of one conservative writer whose goal was to create a term like “social Justice warrior” a poison pill that could evoke the bad stuff about the people we don’t like. So like gay sexuality in sex Ed ends up suddenly being called “CRT” and it’s not a coincidence. This idea of using obscure intellectual theories and during them into poison pills by attaching them “to all the bad stuff you shouldn’t like” seems like a common tactic abusing peoples semantic understanding - a sort of categorical terrorism that further erodes shared understanding. Now the same thing is being done with the word groomer. Right now it could mean democrat, gay person, Trans person, teaching sex Ed of any type, drag shows, drag, and anything taught to kids you don’t approve of. So teaching kids about say the bombing of black Wall Street is teaching children to hate America which isnt indoctrination but grooming which evokes some of the most negative semantics possible - sexual abuse of children. I imagine people don’t even see it. It’s really clever 1984 pink is green language manipulation. It’s 100% driving people to anger and ultimately violence. If Peterson is doing this same sort of trick of negative dumping on post modernism you want nothing to do with him. Go watch Tony Robinson or something.

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

@@wearwolf2500 that's true but it's far worse than that as well. He makes patently false claims about huge things that are easily checkable, like saying communism was permanently discredited in Europe and France, so "postmodernists" couldn't open claim. marxism . But in reality the publishing dates of all the big "pomo" works happen both during and before large membership numbers for marxist and communist parties in france and europe.

@MrMarinus18

3 ай бұрын

If you look into the far right's history you can see it's actually pretty simple what he is doing. He is basically trying to modernize the cultural Marxist conspiracy theory of the 1930's to our modern time. Many of the things he says like low level bureaucrats being under it's sway and it being pushed by western hating radical leftists is pretty much word for word from the 1930's Cultural Marxists.

postmodernism in Canada was not particularly popular in academics during my undergraduate. Certainly, it was studied but I did my Masters in Europe where i found it was far more popular. particularly post Structuralism. so I think you are correct in your assumption about it being out of vogue up hear as well.

@WisecrackEDU

Жыл бұрын

For sure. In my experience of being in grad school (2007 - 2015) most folks I knew almost treated postmodernism as a "passing fad" from another generation. I've since come to really appreciate the work of Derrida and Lyotard (among others), but at the time it felt far from cutting edge or radical.

@johnnygoodman2003

Жыл бұрын

I completed my university degree in 1999 from u of t when peterson was just starting there. I never met him but I took a film studies course there by a professor Bart Testa who told us "some of you have a course with Dr Peterson who says a lot of wrong things about Post Modernism which will confuse you when studying Post Modernism in my course" . Then he had a whole lecture about how and why Peterson was wrong and what you should know about post modernism in film. THIS IS LONG BEFORE PETERSON WAS FAMOUS.

@austinluther5825

Жыл бұрын

@@johnnygoodman2003 Wow, he had just started teaching there and already had a bad reputation among the faculty? That's almost impressive.

@johnnygoodman2003

Жыл бұрын

@@austinluther5825 I know. I never heard of the guy. And professor Testa had been there for years before peterson and was already telling his students how he was wrong. But Testa is a real stickler for getting things right and for reducing confusion in his class, even if it was just film class.

@bazzfromthebackground3696

Жыл бұрын

This is just one of JP's buzzwords. His definition of Post Modern is anything that conflicts with status quo economics/thinking.

It’s sad the amount of time I spent looking through comments to see if any Jordan Peterson fans would defend him or give counter arguments. (I found none)

@korpen2858

Жыл бұрын

Thanks i was doing the same lol

Thank you for the break down and explanation. Some of his suggestion on life from psychological perspective and precaution on Communist authoritarian regime is good. Everything else needs some scrutiny. So it is great to hear what the postmodernism really is about. Deconstruction particularly sounds like a very cool way to challenge and examine any text on their logic and consistency throughout.

@ottopippenger1590

10 ай бұрын

Peterson knows less than anyone I can name about Communism; he literally wrote his books/lectures by buying old posters/ephemera and deriving surmises based in his fears/otherizing. There is nothing of value, because there is literally zero truth or knowledge about the most essential facts of history, or of the philosophy he thinks he opposes, as this video explains with regard to continental philosophy.

My interpretation of Jordan Peterson as a public intellectual is an old man who finds comfort in the status quo and is intensely opposed to any change of that status quo and uses philosophical sounding technobabble as a means to justify that resistance to changing of the old guard, which power and capital find useful.

@Salvothegamer

Жыл бұрын

This is it.

@giorgisopromadze3655

Жыл бұрын

change is extremely board term. What you may call change, I may call "you, forcing the reality to accommodate your insecurities by labeling it as whatever makes you comfortable". "capitalism bad" you may say "look at all these poor people in debt", while I say that I've been poor, and then I climbed up the capitalism ladder a bit and now I enjoy all of its fruits.. I didn't demand the change of capitalism, I changed myself.

@RJCain

Жыл бұрын

@@giorgisopromadze3655 "and then I climbed up the capitalism ladder a bit and now I enjoy all of its fruits." Are you familiar with survivorship bias?

@trw45q

Жыл бұрын

Plus he started making money and being recognized for it thus decided to play the part. He does a bad job though because he's too lazy. What a fraud.

@vylbird8014

Жыл бұрын

Not even today's status quo. He likes the status quo of the time he grew up in - back when no-one was talking about race, the feminists were happy that equality was achieved, and it was only natural that Christianity was the one religion worth recognising.

It is a feat of superhuman endurance to watch 20+ hours of Peterson talking. I don't know how you managed to do it.

@jamilynn322

Жыл бұрын

You can play the "take a shot every time he either cries or tries to sound tough" game - by the middle of the 1st hour you'll be so toasted you'll just sleep through the rest.

@nyceplayz8051

Жыл бұрын

Seriously tho. SUPER Catholic of you to sit through that.

@amidsid3482

Жыл бұрын

well 20 hrs is about the time peterson takes to awnser a single yes/no question.

I cannot watch anything peterson does anymore, he sounds like hes about to burst into tears at any moment and i cant unhear it

What I want to know is why a clinical psychologist who clearly hasn't the knowledge to speak on the subject is hailed as some amazing lecturer. Every person I have seen or spoken to who actually studied philosophy points out how arse ways he has gotten it and how "post modernism" seems to be no more than, as you say, a straw man, while he tries to market repackaged Christian values that preserve those hierarchies at all costs. Me thinks that if they hasn't already, there be anti semitic conspiracy theories incoming in the doctor's near future...

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

because he is touching on a real social problem, expressing pain about it in a way that was banned in the mainstream media before he got big, and offers the laziest, most hateful and stupidest possible explanation for that problem.

@PyroGiz

Жыл бұрын

@@emilianosintarias7337 I dunno, for him the "real social problem" seems to be the criticism and attempts to move away from cis hetero normative patriarchy. And don't get me started on the hypocrisy, have you seen Cass Eris break down his books? Dude can't even reference properly and he's supposed to be an academic.

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

@@PyroGiz The real thing is a crisis of meaning, alienation, and exploding identity politics. Conservatives are right to bring those up, they simply propose the very things that cause them, and want only other forms of identity politics. I am just as worried about Cass Eris and other left liberal bourgeois reactionaries who talk about cis heteronormative patriarchy as I am about Peterson. Well, I guess not really, I might be if I lived in the western world, but the average person in the east and south will never fall for that stuff. So I am more worried about Peterson's alliance of economic right wingers, nationalists, centrist liberals, traditionalists, and theocrats.

@PyroGiz

Жыл бұрын

@@emilianosintarias7337 which is exactly what Petersen *is*. What he refers to as "identity politics" is people who have been disenfranchised advocating for their equality. To take some heat out of this, what Petersen is effectively doing when he complains about "identity politics" is giving out about the inconvenience caused to him while the university he was teaching at installs wheelchair ramps for the sake of access for disabled people. These ramps are there solely to facilitate access for those using wheelchairs so that they too can access the building - but the work needed to install them means he has to use a different entrance that is not as close to his office, and that bugs the hell out of him. If I have read you correctly you kinda hit on that yourself, as in, when it is *his* identity then that matters, when it is a woman, or a gay person or heaven forbid, a trans person? Well their identities are inconvenient and to him, take something from his position on the top. As for Cass Eris, not sure why you referred to her as such, she's a cognitive psychologist and is looking at his works through that lens, including answering his contentions with actual science. It does appear like you dismissed her without even considering the context there and that seems a little silly.

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

@@PyroGiz No offense to you personally, but I have no time for these type of left wing politics which i consider to be right wing in the end. "What he refers to as "identity politics" is people who have been disenfranchised advocating for their equality." This is untrue most of the time I claim, he mostly complains about middle class woke politics and people who use words like center, space, identity, patriarchy etc. Though sometimes he simply and wrongly calls social struggles and progress and even marxism identity politics. Identity politics is an elite project, even when it's an elite of color. I don't take the idea of identity seriously as central to social issues at all, because i am a socialist, in the traditional sense. The idea that all politics are identity politics, that fights for civil rights of say Dubois is idpol, is BS of the highest order. So I am not hinting that when it is his identity that has to adjust, he whines. I am saying his politics sneaks in some bits of idpol campaign (for some imagined anglo civilization, but not the people inside it). Though mostly it is just a kind of anti-politics in service of the bare bones of the status quo. And I don't think that it serves any particular gender or skin color fundamentally, meaning if Africa or Asia becomes the next "west" in 50 years and impose coffee plantations on Ohio, it will ultimately be fine with Peterson. Cass Eris is a well behaved Peterson for the center left woke capitalist side, she simply can cite more but the citations are either nonsense, or sound ones you don't need her for. I have seen her work. Afro-pessimism, blackness studies, whiteness studies, intersectionality is supported only by itself and its investment in fields as citation mills and career rackets. It's totally conservative, untrue nonsense sold to a generation too young to have ever seen how social movements that win work. But it sits in the background of her work as matter of fact reference points. Anyone who thinks women are marginalized in the US/Canada, is just not in possession of basic facts. Oppressed? Sure, yes, all genders are. But women are marginalized relative to men? that's a pure performance of paternalism. It isn't going to survive analysis, we don't believe it we perform it.

And the moral of the story is don't go to psychiatrist if you want to learn about philosophy. It's a bit like going to a dentist to have your eye exam. Yes, he's doctor but he's not the right kind of doctor. Or in Peterson's case: yes, he's a professor but he's not the right kind of professor.

@sagarkhandare1319

Жыл бұрын

Best comment

@martinsriber7760

Жыл бұрын

Apparently he wasn't good at teaching his field either.

It's really hard to respond to someone who is knowingly and blatently making sh*t up 😂

It is almost funny how Peterson projects himself into those postmodern streams of thought. He dismisses any emancipative moment in any thoughts that question his agenda and may threaten his identity. In the end, despite raging against identity policitcs all the time he himself is all about identity and a very good example of psychoanalytical constructs such as denial and projection.

I dont understand how a person can speak with such confidence About things he has no idea about. And how do people not fact check anything they listen that has enough force in the rhetoric... sad. Great analysis and thanks for summing up these things, made it a lot easier

@darwinskeeper421

Жыл бұрын

I'm not sure if Jordan Peterson's confidence is a product of the Dunning-Kruger effect, that he knows just enough about philosophy to believe he understands postmodernism well but not enough to understand what he doesn't know, or sheer opportunism. He realizes he has an audience who has been spoon fed the idea that certain "left leaning" forces are a threat to all that they hold dear. He knows that he has a lot to gain if he can find a sophisticated way of telling these people that their fears are right and is therefore incentivized to find a way to turn things that right wingers tend to disdain (like modern philosophy) into a clear and present danger. I'm not sure how much he really understands about post-modernism but he seems to know what his audience wants to hear and that telling them that can get him what he wants.

@emilianosintarias7337

Жыл бұрын

People do that all the time, salesman, stephen seagal, trump... the real mystery is how a sensitive, empathetic person like Peterson can have this trait. But this combo made him rich, people believe in him because he seems real to lie.

@laszlo161

Жыл бұрын

There is basically two options: 1. He actually believes he is right, which might be possible, but would make him simply stupid or 2. He knows exactly how to influence a gullible audience of mostly young men through rhetorical means, no matter the facts, as long as they line up with the outdated worldview he's trying to push forward. Might be 1 but personally I believe it's mainly reason 2.

@darwinskeeper421

Жыл бұрын

@@laszlo161 Your conclusion lines up with my own version of Occam's razor which suggests that if there are multiple explanations of a person's behavior, the most cynical is most likely to be correct.

@ttt69420

Жыл бұрын

Imagine fact checking philosophy

Informative and helpful to anyone more curious. Great video.

All I got out of this is that you’ve never had a good apple! Seriously though, I like the work that you do and the time you put into your videos. Thank-you!

Absolute Truth and true perfection are myths that both individuals and groups have destroyed themselves pursuing. While both self improvement and systemic improvement are noble goals, we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

it took a couple days but i watched the entire 3+ hour episode of some more news on jp and just, wow. it’s shocking how much he bloviates and yammers on, insisting that what he says is truth and that other ideas are “just wrong” but without providing any evidence as to why. it’s very sad that ppl just hear things they like and so support him despite him not even really saying anything except that poverty exists because it’s natural to have humans suffer economically and it’s basically their fault.

@josephkrengel

Жыл бұрын

That was a remarkable expose on him. He's not just frustrating, he's a fraud plain and simple. He's a snake oil salesmen.

@clay7301

Жыл бұрын

Some more news is fantastic

@jiffylou98

Жыл бұрын

I think he has a lot of interesting things to say in terms of his own analysis and ideology. When talking about history or the various bogeymen that frighten him, he’s nonsensical, but his take on phenomenology and it’s effect on a good life is interesting. I can’t confirm or deny whether that take is novel, though.

@kimplin

Жыл бұрын

@@jiffylou98 ??? bro hes nothing more then a bad self help christian using big words to sound smart. Nothing he says is unique when it comes to self help. The dude values "CLEANING UR ROOM" and "speak clearly" as some tenets of self help.

@jiffylou98

Жыл бұрын

@@kimplin having read some self help he could be worse. At least he takes a pseudo intellectual tone instead of a spiritual mumbo jumbo tone with his chore lists.

I, and many others who have become frustrated with Petersons clear ignorance, really appreciate this video! He goes on podcasts with hosts who know nothing of philosophy to ever correct him so he’s never pulled up on the shit he chats

@mihael333

Жыл бұрын

wrong pleese reserch this is just one debate kzread.info/dash/bejne/o6d8rJWFpri9hNY.html

@alexellea40

Жыл бұрын

@@mihael333 aha i love that you've linked to a video that wisecrack have already done an analysis on in which Peterson, again, outs himself as being utterly ignorant of the source material he references

You could do a whole series called "Peterson misses the point of (insert literally anything he's ever talked about)" and as long as you do 5 minutes of research you could probably pick apart anything he's ever said.

@elevenseven-yq4vu

9 ай бұрын

If it looks like a Jordan B Peterson, walks like a Jordan B Peterson, talks like a Jordan B Peterson, it is a quack.

30:46 "It can be fun. It's frustrating but it's fun." This is basically applicable to all off philosophy.^^

We all agree that Michael brought up the Gilmore Girls because he wants to be a Gilmore Girl, right?

@WisecrackEDU

Жыл бұрын

it's true.

Jordan Peterson: The textbook definition of "confidently incorrect".

Perhaps, just maybe, we're all lobsters that need to make our beds.

He is a sophist. The philosophical conspiricist.

I have just one thought about the way you described 'logocentrism'. As per my understanding, Derrida said that Logocentrism is Western philosophy’s greatest illusion. Given that each grounding concept-Plato’s Forms, Descartes’ cogito, structuralism’s innate structures of human consciousness, and so on-is itself a human concept and therefore a product of human language, and by the idea of difference of Derrida we can understand that it cannot be outside of the ambiguities of language. That is, no concept can be outside the dynamic, evolving, ideologically saturated operations of the language that produced it. One of the starting points of Derrida’s argument is that Derrida is talking about the beginning of beginning. Derrida’s argument is that there is nothing called an Origin; because there will always be an Origin of the origin and this idea of Origin emanates from the idea of center which Derrida calls the biggest illusion of Western Philosophy. Thus, there is no final point i.e., the transcendental signifier, and so, we assume the center to be the transcendental signifier, which again, now is decentered. And another thing.. when Peterson talks about postmodernists' belief that biology does not exist he is probably hinting towards Judith Butler and their claim that there is no sex (as a biological entity) and thereby also extending the idea of Sexuality and Gender connecting from Lacan and Foucault. And really the hierarchy thing he talks about I think he is talking about the concept of Hegemony of Gramsci (not Foucault) and the non-coercive force which operates to hegemonize some things and the other. I think the reason he only cites these two philosophers and credits them for all the ideas he talks about is really because of the popularity of these two philosophers across the departments of humanities especially in the postcolonial worlds where perhaps because of the colonial lack the popularity of the later philosophers who 'really' critique them has not been reached (Like Haberman, Kristeva, Chomsky, Baudrillard among others) I don not really know if I am wrong.. Please correct me if you can

@Deathwept

Жыл бұрын

You’re much more on point than the creator.

@starfoxnes

Жыл бұрын

Yes, you're correct. I think Peterson is also using Lyotard in the way of reading literature, who was a primary postmodern thinker. He is talking about a whole tradition and, like you said, name drops Foucault and Derrida for familiarity rather than extensive critique of their works.

@elevenseven-yq4vu

9 ай бұрын

​@@starfoxnesBasically you are saying that Peterson's line of argument is lazy, sloppy, shoddy, full of holes, jumps, false conclusions and overstated suggestions, lacks consistency and logic sequence. Which indeed is the case.

Thank you for taking the time and the energy to research and share with us. Yes. It matters that public intellectuals are held responsible for sharing accurate information. Truth is the new Sensationalism. It seems sometimes people say stuff without first doing enough research before going public. And, there are soooo many NON- mealy apples out there.

@najeekgreen2543

Жыл бұрын

Reminds me of Alex Jones

@hornytoad1978

Жыл бұрын

Whatever I love all these delusional comments 🙄

@charlenepoulin4886

Жыл бұрын

I'm curious if I'm missing something. I don't see how you prove this. I wrote a post just now discussing the problem with this idea

@michaelcook6483

Жыл бұрын

Socialism + Darwinism = Genocide. Darwin is undeniable, so we must reject Socialism. The individual must be considered Holy for civilization to progress.

Apple to try: Ambrosia. Only get it in season. Try one next time you hit up the grocer. They should feel exrea firm in the hand and not be all one color. (Mostly yellow is ok) Those are the tips on how I pick my favorite Apple. Love yall!

The Poetics of Unlimited Breadsticks: Derrida's Philosophy of Hospitality in the Postmodern Olive Garden

@MrJlin1982

Жыл бұрын

Derrida's welcome culture destroys the west, because the others make advantage of it, namely islamists! Derrida was a jew and raised in a Judeo-Christian environment. There his philosophy is right, because they have the same values. Muslims do not.

Love this vid, more of this please wiseguy

The problem with deconstructing Peterson's takes on anything is that you have to somehow determine what he's saying at every moment are based on either his biased bad faith takes, his feigned expertise hiding his absolute ignorance on the subject or the fact that he is very much locked into selling a brand to the alt-right. Before you can determine that for literally everything he says you cannot deconstruct what he is saying.

@donavanj.1992

Жыл бұрын

Oh my gawd this is so spot on 😂😂😂

@donavanj.1992

Жыл бұрын

So accurate it hurts. 😂😂😂

@rozzgrey801

Жыл бұрын

The problem with deconstruction is that it itself is fundamentally flawed. You are pretending to be unbiased when deconstructing something, but you cannot really be unbiased, only unconscious to your own bias, which you unwittingly project onto what you are studying. Post-modernism is just a way of kidding yourself that you're outside culture and can see it with unfailing objectivity.

@elevenseven-yq4vu

9 ай бұрын

He is the holy trinity of all of it at once.

My philosophy is unlimited bread sticks.

Sounds like JP is butthurt because Foucault and Derrida had the gall to criticize his precious western society. Im sorry but, western society is not beyond criticism.