If they were afraid of people farming a certain heist over and over again to level then they could've literally taken PD2's heist replay system where if you keep replaying the same heist over again the less rewards you get, With PD3's progression system they've essentially forced everyone to play in certain ways and limited the freedom of how to progress, The challenges should have been a bonus or milestone accomplishment sort of thing not the main way you progress in the game

@samtinkle9076

9 ай бұрын

THEY LITERALLY SOLVED THE EXACT ISSUE THEY'RE FACING NOW 10 YEARS AGO AAAAAAA

@meat.

9 ай бұрын

It’s almost like much of the original devs who made payday 2 are gone now and it’s just a bunch of new devs riding the coattails of success of the old game. (Much like Overwatch)

@iinflatedi7669

9 ай бұрын

Exactly.

@Mephaistus

9 ай бұрын

they wanted to hinder people from farming xp in certain heists with this and all they did is make people farm a certain heist to farm xp. Penthouse toilet crimes.

@welkingunther4298

9 ай бұрын

People still had an optimal farm map route. Ukraninan Job/Jewel store/breakfast tijuana stealth bonus --> hoxton/rats. It's the same shit.

1. Implement XP on heist completion; nothing new ofc but still. 2. Double or triple the XP that later challenges reward. i.e, if I decide to grind my way through beating a certain heist into the high tens, I should be rewarded a lot more for it. 3. Add the XP grinding penalty from Payday 2. Starbreeze had this exact issue 9 years ago, they can fix it the same way they did back then.

One of the largest obstacles is that the current system is very biased towards Loud. There are very few Stealth challenges. Meanwhile, all the Combat challenges are Loud challenges and there are more of those than the other two combined.

@TheKoloradoShow

9 ай бұрын

Matt from wii sports is completely correct

@RedArcherLive

9 ай бұрын

Yeah that's one thing I meant to acknowledge and it slipped my mind - it's very true, and I'm not a fan of it.

The fact they did shout you out on stream in a positive light, and you still sit there making this video, tells a lot about integrity on your end. Thanks, this is very much appreciated.

The challenge system would be good for Item unlocks like weapon paints charms masks decals etc

@IngenieurStudios

9 ай бұрын

I have always thought the OG Modern Warfare 2 was the best way to handle cosmetics in all games. I miss stuff like that or the Hayabusa/Vidmaster challenges in Halo 3. It makes having stuff like an Intervention with Fall Camo (1000 headshots in PvP) an actual achievement. Or just labels you as a filthy booster 😂 Either way, cosmetics that show off your accomplishments is always way cooler.

@introdeity

9 ай бұрын

@@IngenieurStudios ah yes, simple times during mw2, peak first person shooter that was for me. i agree with you on mw2 challenges

As someone who is an indecisive player i love the challenge system. Right now its amazing but rough around the edges. To me it needs some QoL. Recommended challenges, better sorting, no bugs on locking away the xp, etc etc.

I appreciate you a lot.The only big creator that openly speaks about the issues unlike a few I could name.

@GorgeousRandyFlamethrower

9 ай бұрын

I liked generalmcbadass review on payday 3 nearly every point he made was on par

@ChainBreaker01

9 ай бұрын

​@@GorgeousRandyFlamethrowerYeah,Gen is one of the good ones.The reviews was on point.

@iQuickscopedUrNan

9 ай бұрын

​@@ChainBreaker01name em

@ChainBreaker01

9 ай бұрын

@@iQuickscopedUrNan Nah.But giving a hint.Also British.

@jacehackworth6413

9 ай бұрын

@@ChainBreaker01Knowley? Mario? They both talk about this.

I get what you meant with challenges aren't required for unlocks but technically they are, the only way to unlock things is by levelling up and the only way to level up is by completing challenges. There's just an extra step in between

I have a couple things I'd want them to implement to make the progression system better. First off, a pretty simple fix. Give XP/Infamy points just for completing heists. It still boggles my mind that this isn't already a thing. I don't mind the fact that challenges give XP/Infamy points, but the fact that completing heists don't give xp really dosent make any sort of sense. I get their intentions with trying to make players try different play styles, which is why we've got the challenges but I don't think that should come at the cost of not getting any sort of xp reward for completing heists. Sometimes people just want to hop onto the game and play a heist without having to worry about challenges, so I do think you should still get rewarded for just completing heists. You'll get even more by also completing challenges. That's what games like OW2, Fortnite and even Dead by Daylight do, plus there are other online games that do this so it just makes sense. And second, idk if this is just a personal thing for me, but give us the ability to track specific challenges. So whilst we are in game, you can see the progress of the tracked challenges throughout the course of the game, without having to go through to the challenges section in the game. Then when a tracked challenge is completed, you get a popup saying that the challenge is completed. Anyone who has played Dead by Daylight and done the tome challenges will know what I'm talking about, except allow us to track multiple challenges at the same time as opposed to how you can only track one challenge per role (One for killer and one for survivor) on DBD. It would seriously make things so much easier to track. Small thing I want to add, I just wish it was easier to find a specific challenge that you're working on to check the progress without having to go through pages of challenges just to find it. It just feels tedious. Edit: I made this comment before I fully finished the video, so please forgive me if I mentioned points that Red Archer has already said. I feel like these points ive made (and probably a lot of other people have made too) would help make the progression system better whilst still keeping the intention of the challenges intact Thank you for talking about this, man. Hoping we can get these soon. The whole thing with this system has made me stop playing PD3 for now because if i dont get rewarded for just completing heists, like that last commenter in the video said, it just makes playing feel pointless, which is why ive been playing PD2 again recently cause just playing the game and completing heists dosent feel completely pointless.

@JonahThaStonah

9 ай бұрын

I just want the cutscene audio fixed for ps5🤣😭😭

Hope they fix the progression system, (and several other things). The Infamy level with the challenge system could be separated form the Player level. Let player level, level up and unlock things like in payday 2. Then the Infamy level can just be a flex to show you have done a lot in the game, tied to the challenges. Could tie cosmetic unlocks to the infamy level, but not important things.

I know alot of people have been asking for XP for hiest completion, I kinda wish the XP was objective based like in The Hiest. Maybe even give like a couple (1-5) infamy points for loose cash

Could you make a map review video? Talking about the 8 maps what you like what you don't and what you would change. 1) no rest for the wicked. I think is good but the stealth to loud blend isn't as great. 2)road rage I really enjoy but it doesn't have that much randomization. I think if they made 4 different obstacles and spawn randomly it would be 100 times better, obstacles as either the gate or the pot holes. Also adding an umderside to the bridge giving us and the cops more flanking routes and more spawning area as on normal and hard it's easy to farm 3)dirty ice. Perfect as is just the loot payout is bad 4) Rock the cradle, think its good 2 different objectives based on loud or stealth. Just need to fix the speed run strategy and I wish the map was a bit bigger it really feels like 2 parts where you spen your time in part A then part B and should you go loud you go back to part A for the loot. But I know it's a lot of people favorite. 5)Under the surphaze. Stay in circle objective and online only as a South African 200 ping has made me fail due to guards seeing me around corners. 6)Gold and shark. I wish there was actually gold in game and in loud if the lobby got used more. 7) 99 boxes. Stay in circle objective... other than that and the exploit I enjoy the concept of the loot getting less. But please let us open both crates before having to remove the component. On higher difficulty its hard to get it back on high value while stull being stealth, maybe a perk that if you have rush gaurds will ignore sprinting sounds. 8)Touch the sky. Again circle objective and the farming strat which isn't a problem with the map more the Ai.

I feel like if they wanted to reward the people who try a variety of weapons and playstyles they could just keep the challenges as they are and give you ip from missions but have on the amount of ip you can get from missions, so lets say it takes 20,000 ip to get to level 100 then you could only get 20,000 ip from completing missions before they stop giving ip, then those who complete would level faster and the only way to get past 100 would be to do challenges, because in my opinion what feels so bad about the progression is the skill points being locked till level 100, I think this would be the best for both sides so the grind to 100 doesn't feel as bad and those who complete challenges would have the highest levels.

the idea getting only challenge xp from 100-150 wouldve worked on launch. with how things look and how people already grind to level 100+, i think its nuts

I like how the thought being making the progression the way it is, is that they want us to try different things. I tried almost everything in payday 2 without the game essentially forcing me to. Just make a good game and leave it up to the player what tools they use.

I actually feel like unlocking guns and such should be a separate progression system from the challenges. Have the Infamy points and levels show how much of the game's challenges a player has completed, but also have a standard xp system so you don't have to do some of those ridiculous challenges just to unlock the guns. I genuinely love the idea of a system that genuinely shows how much of the game someone has completed; seeing a rank 11 guardian in Destiny 2 feels like seeing a celebrity in a city, and I think Payday 3 could absolutely nail that too.

I don't know how they completely misjudged how people would respond to this leveling system. It's like how in cod, there are mastery skins for the people who are dedicated enough to want to grind out each individual weapon, but you don't have to and can just enjoy the games content as is. But they're there as a bonus for people who are interested in that. Instead, Payday 3 is essentially forcing you to do the mastery challenges to progress. And that fuckin sucks man.

I was able to fix my challenges that were stuck at “1/1” by just doing it once more and it unlocked. I had 7 different challenges stuck at “1/1” (4 being specific heists on Overkill) and by doing them again it awarded me the IP for it. Worth a try for anyone experiencing that because I don’t know anyone who this hasn’t worked for. So much so that it’s told me that people just never played X heist on Overkill again after doing it the one time

The issue is finding the balance betwen varriety and grinding. I think if the xp rewards were increased to a degree, we could see a better balance of varriety and grinding. As of right now, it feels like you need to use every weapon for an extended period of time to gain a substantial amount of xp. Increasing those xp rewards means that certain guns or tactics won't be utilized as much, but it also wouldn't feel like a chore to use the weapons or tactics you don't care for. You can still hit the soft limit without needing to do everything the game has to offer.

Here's the fix: Keep challenges as they are, but add to it, giving IP for each heist (scaling more for longer heists, and of course modifying it up for difficulty). Heist completion should be the primary means of Infamy gain, and challenges a nice bonus reward. Challenges should be incentivized, not mandatory.

I much prefer this system to the traditional xp + infamy system of PD2 because it works much better as a show of mastery than PD2 infamy did: in PD2 you could just speedrun the most XP efficient heist over and over to get to max infamy without really understanding the game, while in PD3 if you see someone at level 150 then you know, at the very least, they've completed each heist on the highest difficulties multiple times. Ideally it also means they've used every weapon a fair amount, but people tend to optimize the fun out of everything and prefer grinding sitting in a bathroom while complaining about grinding sitting in a bathroom so that's out the window. I don't feel as if you should get IP for completing heists as that would just lead to people grinding out whichever heist is most efficient like in PD2, which harms the idea of the level representing mastery of the game. That being said, a traditional XP system that is used to only gameplay abilities (skill points, weapons, etc) that remains separate from IP could work quite well: If you want the bragging rights number next to your name to go up you need to do the challenges, but if you just want to have every gun and all skills you can go and level that up separately. Would be the best of both worlds in my opinion, maintaining the spirit of the challenge system but making it optional for gameplay. It's biggest issue in my opinion isn't the "do this heist 300 times" missions, since they're intended to be the last challenges you ever complete and most people won't ever need to (although I do feel they should be decreased as 300 times is A LOT), but as you said the way the challenges are presented. The terrible sorting and lack of tracking means people take a look at the challenges, see "do heist 150 times loud on normal" WAY before it is reasonable for them to even consider doing that, and then think "oh the rest of the challenges are equally shit" which isn't the case. Even if overkill genuinely didn't have the time to include in-heist UI elements like trackers, or a better sorting system for challenges, there is absolutely no excuse for the fact that they just are almost completely randomly ordered, and they need to work on this urgently. Also because a lot of the challenges are based on weapons a lot of the challenges have a bias towards loud gameplay. Best way to fix this in my opinion would just be to remove all "loud clear" challenges past doing them for the first time on each difficulty, and to add the IP from the removed challenges to the stealth completion rewards, while reducing the number needed. This way the majority of "loud XP" will just be gained from weapons, which you can't get in stealth, while stealth XP can be acquired more easily. It would require removal of weapon grinding spots to stay in the spirit of the original system though, and perhaps have some weapon challenges be based on difficulty (ie the 1000 kills challenge could be split to 500 kills on any difficulty and 500 kills on overkill) or heist (ie 200 kills on no rest for the wicked) to add more variety to heists and difficulties instead of just finding the easiest to grind.

one thing people never seem to bring up, is this challenge system wouldn't work if they ever added a prestige or "infamy level" system like they had in PD2, which a TON of people, myself included, really enjoyed, and it gave a good reason to go back to the smaller scale missions once and a while since you were effectively starting over with no skill points. would that even work with pd3's system? would the challenges reset and we'd have to do all the heists 300 times AGAIN? payday 3 has been the definition of taking things that aren't broken and trying to fix them.

they should make the heist completion challenges give xp as you complete them. for example the challenge to complete a heist 150 times should give you a certain amount of xp each time until you’ve completed it 150 times or whatever the number is on each difficulty.

An easy way I thought of is just make it so on normal you only get 10 IP, so at max you get 40 IP on overkill. Do that per heist. So you can slowly but surely level up. Basically saying if you play a heist when you complete it, you get a little bit of IP depending on the difficulty

The challenge system has a lot of potential, but the currect execution is bad. Here's my list of (possible) improvements: - Award XP for heist completion and award more for harder difficulties, and for each extra loot bag secured - Reward challenges (especially the harder ones) more, maybe more stuff than just currencies and XP - for example packs of heist-specific deployables, maybe even pre-modded guns - Allow us to filter and sort challenges better (show which ones are close to completion) - Show challenge progress - both in-game and in heist selection

I couldn't have said it better myself! Great vid.

Great vid, I pretty much agree on this. Zero XP for being a professional and clearing out a secured bank without firing a shot on Ovk is pretty meh, but I can buy an SMG, sit in a bathroom and gain several levels of XP. It's nonsense. They also need to allow for more diverse loud builds, everything is very Armour centric and we don't see the crazy and wonderful builds that PD2 allowed which make repeating loud heists interesting.

My only problem for me as a payday 2 console player I wanted to change my outfit and gloves the most, so much so that I was genuinely hoping for starbreeze to bring a few over from PD2 but there wasn't and that didn't surprise.

Right now, alot of lv 60-80's are just bathroom donkeys and don't know even the basics of heisting. Those same people would grind Rock The Cradle 100 times to level up if it allowed them, just like payday 2. And they would also be bad at payday heisting mechanics. I unironically appreciate the current system because high levels like 110+ you know have done more than just 2 heists and farming bathrooms.

If they want to band-aid fix the progression system in the very next update, they could add 100 different tiers of "steal X amount of money" challenges while they work on the overhaul. But they probably won't do that.

Honeslty I could see challenges rewarding cosmetics being a good thing. Particularly for dlc weapons, i know a lot of people are worried about dlc weapons awarding exp which would feel kinda bad since it would give dlc buyers an advantage. So instead it would be cool if dlc challenges awarded c stacks and then maybe a preset version of the gun.

so I have 40 hours on pc and about 40 on console. I think a simple xp per mission PLUS the challenges would be just fine. I also think adding cool things to unlock from challenges would be very cool. I know you said you wouldnt like it but the other option is microtransactions lol I would much rather earn my cool mask or suit by playing for 10 hours straight and making me feel like I deserve this cool item instead of buying it for 20 bucks. I understand they want you to try other things but thats the cool thing about games having options.... its the best part about options that you have them not it being forced onto you. imagine if something like Dark souls forced you to use weapons to level up. it would ruin the freedom of options. Also having your levels locked to challenges means people arent gonna be able to be full level because some people dont have buddies to help with the overkill missions. some people like me dont like to matchmake because other players always ruin stealth. What really bothers me is how damn good the game is and im loving it but if they dont do something soon people are gonna start walking away.

There are much better ways of encouraging play diversity instead of holding leveling up hostage behind it. Dailies in PD2 did that for me, gave me a reason to mess around with other options without being held back for it. Let's be honest here, they created the current progression system to trap players into play this game instead of creating a game that naturally keeps the player interested and playing. They are lacking a lot in the game, especially content and this system is to cover for it.

If Starbreeze still wants to award people for completign challenges while adding xp for heists/bags, they can make it so that you reach max level, xp worth at least level 50 needs to be gained from challeges, because when I was playing levelling only became sluggish at level 50. So at the game's current state, you can gain 100 levels (enough for the soft cap) of xp from just playing but you need 50 levels from challeges too, resulting in 150 total levels, meaning you cannot continue past the soft cap without challenges but you can until then.

I'm at level 107 and I am feeling the XP wall. It's like I ran straight into it and I cant level up hardly anymore

My way of fixing the current progression system is buff the challenges and/or add a flat EXP gain for completing heists, like 200-300 EXP per heist at least

Thank you for being honest. Ive seen other youtubers sugarcoat a lot of the issues. Good job

All i want is, XP for completing heists, challenges boosts XP and easier to use challenge screen

The worst part is that, after you unlock the Scar 17/VF-7S, there’s really just nothing else to do.

I like the progression, even tho it makes me try out different things, its not the best My suggestion is : Give heists a small amout of XP, so that when you complete a challange, completing a heist will help you level up

@Lucios1995

9 ай бұрын

I guess 15 IP per difficulty sounds fine?

@gingerpt5714

9 ай бұрын

@@Lucios1995 yea that sould be fine

I only play road rage because it's the only heist where you don't have to worry about if the others want to go loud or not. Guess what? I get almost no xp because I'm not getting the other heist completion challenges or stuff like "destroy display cases".

Indeed, Halo Infinite had the same issue, where the only way to progress through Battle pass levels (didn't have any progression system AT LAUNCH) was with challenges, and they were rough ones. Fortunately, this was fixed, and now challenges are just a bonus with an integrated XP progression per match and progression system through matchmaking and custom games ❤

@revan5293

9 ай бұрын

I remember that. God it was so frustrating

one thing i dont like about the progression system is that theres no reason to get the max amount of bags in heists other than for money but at a certain point money isnt really an issue and if u just want to level up then theres no reason to waste so much time trying to get all the bags cuz theres no challenges for it. in payday 2 the more bags u got the more money AND xp but in payday 3 the only reason id want to get as many bags as i can is just to use that as an excuse to stay in a heist longer to get more kills for challenges.

One small correction: the “complete ‘heist’ x number of times” only has a 150 completion for normal. I believe Overkill only needs 40 completions to get the highest tier, so it’s slightly better than what you said. It still sucks as a progression though, it just feels like this is a worse way to give exp for each completion on a heist.

I think they should definitely bring back objective xp and xp per bag secured. Payday the Heist was so good for this and the challenges that helped you progress even further if you were a hard grinder. I don’t understand why they thought challenges to level up was a good idea and have ruined teamplay. You cannot play a heist normally without someone being selfish and avoiding the objectives.

i feel like for the 150 normal mode clear challenge. a way to make it less annoying would to make it count as 2 or 3 clears if you do the heist on overkill. cuz as it is now the most efficient way to do it is overkill first then keep lowering the difficulty.

They only need to use the same system that payday the heist has. Keep the challenges, give exp based on the things done in the heist by %, give a bonus per crew member alive at the end of the heist and punish with exp loss (from the heist total exp) for killing civies

Most Ideas sound nice. I just think there is a problem with the "challenge only from lvl 100, heist-completion-exp up till then"-idea: First of all it would be punishing for everybody who already played and leveled a lot, cause they already did more challenges and have fewer to choose from. Secondly and very similarly this would make it META to complete very few challenges and e.g. never change weapons up till lvl 100 to have the easy challenges left then to get up to 150. I think the best way overall would be to just give exp for heist completion at every time. If somebody wants to do dirty ice / rock the cradle rushes an insane amount of time to get to 150 without really using challenges: let them :D

Id like to see generalized xp based on bags gotten with a difficulty multiplier then challenges for highest levels after all skill points have been unlocked. Stealth mods vs loud being less slightly for loud because stealth is harder

The gameplay itself is fun, but part of the fun for me is feeling like what I'm doing matters. Spending an hour completing an overkill heist in stealth only to get no XP sucks quite a bit of the satisfaction out of the fact that I did it.

I think they should have used a set group of challenges to unlock a cosmetic. That would’ve been enough for me to want to complete challenges. I’m doing them and now it’s just a uphill walk with a weighted vest.

problem is they're not encouraging people to try new things, they're punishing people for not trying new things. Another way to fix this is untie infamy level with guns and skill points, and instead make them costs Cstacks or unlocked via another set of xp system.

I think a challenge system could work. The problem is the scaling of the systems. The amount of time you have to put in compared to the amount of IP you get is really bad at the end. I'm 111 and I have to play for hours or even days straight just grinding specific challenges to gain 1 infamy. Completely replace the repetitive challenges. "do x, x number of times." make actually interesting challenges. Example: Preform 3 takedowns in a single heist. (1 challange for each difficult) Answer 3 pagers in 30 seconds. Have a 100% or higher accuracy rating. Trigger a tazer and a nader weakspot within 30 seconds of each other. Kill 2/3/4/5 enemys with one shot. Get a grenade kill without the grenade touching the ground. Then instead of having all challenges progress from the start, have most of them level locked so you have to be a certain level to do them. This incentivises people to not play heists above their skill level. So Infamy 20 players don't cue into overkill lobby just to get the IP. There are so many great possibilities here, but they went with the lazy route.

The challenges should give suits, gloves, masks and maybe bonus xp. It shouldn't be the only way to progress. It railroads you into playing certain ways instead of playing the way you want to.

I laugh when people say “In payday 2, farming Hoxtons breakout over and over is stupid for XP farming” Then I saw payday 3’s challenges to rank up in early access… and I knew this was gonna be 100x worse than just farming Hoxtons Breakout… Boy how right I was

I feel the progression system outright prevents me from progressing if I just want to play with my favourite weapon, and incentivizes doing ANYTHING BUT the heist objectives.

Repetitively grinding a challenge on Rock the Cradle, I ignore looting the crates and looting the vault just for the sake of completing the challenge. That truly defeats the purpose in calling the game "PAYDAY!"

I totally echo the last person's comment. I WANT to play the game, but the fact that I have to do some annoying and specific challenges to get anything out of a heist simply makes me not even want to bother and go play another game entirely. PD3 was fun when the heists were new to me, but now that I've played them all, I have no desire to come back to the game until they add more, which is something that never happened to me in PD2. This progression system just isn't for me.

Challenges definitely should've been just a side bonus for players to work on in order to obtain bonus XP, I wouldn't even mind if they toned down heist completion XP to still make it desirable, just not turned off completely.

I get the idea of after level 100 you have to do challenges to level up but that severely punishes people already at 100

I don't actually mind it, but there needs to be more variety challenge wise. If you could only get levels from speedrun challenges, secrets/easter eggs, the current challenges, I think if the challenges were more akin to the achievements like True Connoisseur, Spec Ops, Crowd Control, and there were a LOT more of them, that could be more interesting.

They want to reward players for doing a variety of things in the game” yes, that idea like you said is good, but that is not at all what they gave us. The way they determined what is hard and easy to do was extremely lazy, like some of the challenges just don’t make sense and are incredibly hard and tedious so no one would want to do them or do them naturally through exploring the game. And not to mention there is a serious lack of stealth specific challenges, like playing loud you get way more exp because of gun challenges, but you don’t get any of those in stealth.

Haven't watched the video yet, but just want to share my ideas. 1: Add in IP for heist completion. Not a lot, but some, and have it scale up with difficulty. Just to spit-ball, 50 for Normal, 100 for hard, 175 for very hard, and 250 for Overkill. No Stealth Bonus, loud and stealth are both difficult in their own unique ways, and arguing that one trumps another I feel is kind of dumb but that's just me. These are intentionally kind of low especially on lower difficulties. This pushes new players to complete challenges for xp and experiment and using every part of the game, while letting experienced/tunnel visioned players just get xp the way they want too if they're willing to put in more effort in general gameplay, but still leans toward challenges to make a more efficient form of levelling for those looking to power level as well. You may want to change these around depending on the heist, more specifically add back Payday 2's system where playing the same heist too much begins to reduce your IP gain until you play the others enough times, specifically to stop people from spamming Dirty Ice on repeat for fourty hours. 2: Add in more stealth challenges. Stuff like "pickpocket x amount of keycards", "Hack and use a runtime on X amount of cameras", or maybe "Use X amount of QR Codes to unlock doors" would do wonders for stealth progression and would also progress regardless of completions, meaning you don't need to completely finish the heist in stealth, you still get rewarded for trying. There's plenty of other ideas that can be used too for challenges "Perform takedowns on X amount of guards before the alarm has sounded" and "Disable the cameras X amount of times before the alarm has sounded" also seem good to me. 3: Add a recommended challenges tab, push people more into doing the challenges. If a challenge shows I literally haven't used a weapon at all, and it's dangling like a 200 free infamy points for taking it with me for my next shoot-out and netting a hundred kills total, then hell yes I'm gonna take it with me. Show people their easiest challenges to complete to streamline levelling a bit more basically. 4: UI and QoL improvements. Fix the whole challenge thing being a pain, show your challenges closest to completion at the end of a heist, that sort of thing.

Progression to me should be like call of duty where you can level up however you want but if you do challenges you can speed up the process

i have no idea how the progression feels, as i still am unable to create a nebula account. i would appreciate if literally anybody, including starbreeze, would address this.

Mechanically, it doesn't need that much change. Adding completion XP would be all they need to do...but it should be a lot of completion xp. Right now, doing a bazillion heists with a certain weapon just get to a third of a level is crazy. They just need to scrap that idea as a form of leveling. I don't want to play how I don't want to play. It should feel like a benefit to diversify your playstyle, not a necessity.

For me i like that it encourages you to use different wepons but i hate that challenges are the only way to get xp as alot of them force you to play in specific ways that you might not like, for example alot of challenges are basically loud only, or the challenges that need specifically hip fire or ads kills. Another issue is that the current system doesn't encourage you to finish heist of anything its the opposite amd encourages you to stay in one heist for as long as possible to get the most challenge progress.

@asbestosispoison

9 ай бұрын

A lot of the shotgun challenges feel weird, like killing enemies from 50 meters away or while ADSing.. It's like they have never used a shotgun in a game before!

@darkwolf9637

9 ай бұрын

@asbestosispoison yeah, the renfield 800 is kills while ads and the mosconi is kills from the hip.

@LittleFisching

9 ай бұрын

That’s talking about the sniper, the sniper and the shotgun just have crazy similar names.

I feel like there's a lot of ways the progression system could be changed for the better. Weapon XP VS character XP (IP) directly conflict with each other as well, which goes to show that there's a lot of mixed priorities going on. The constant struggle to bring balance, design, and fun to the game have caused an issue where lifting up one hurts another. What's balanced isn't the best for the game's design and/or isn't fun. What's works well with the design isn't balanced or necessarily fun. What's fun is unbalanced or doesn't fit the game's design. This is rough because the game has all the right ingredients in it, just at the wrong amounts. For progression, I see it going one of a few ways. One way is if progression remains tied to challenges, give IP for partial completion of challenges. If you have to beat a heist 10 times and you get 10 IP from it, each heist completion would earn you 1IP. This lets you feel the progression, since the current systems binary of "completed or not" doesn't help give a sense of progression. This method would give feedback to the player without negatively impacting the leveling speed, in case that's an issue OVK was resolving with this system. Another way would be to lower the requirements to getting skill points. Instead of getting your final skill point around level 100, have skill points handed out much quicker at lower levels, capping at no lower than level 50. This gets people's hands on more skill points so they can feel like they can tackle higher difficulties AND try out new loadouts. The fact that we keep grinding the same heists with the same weapons over and over so we can level up to make a slight adjustment to out loadout to do it all again is what's causing a lot of player burnout. Higher tier weapons can still be locked behind higher levels, but skill points should be accessible much earlier. We're coming from 10+ years of Payday 2 where players legit stopped interacting with the infamy system until they added the infamy pool because they didn't want to lose their OP skillsets. Of course the players coming into PD3 will want to have a maxed out loadout instead of struggling with a few skills when they really just want to blend a fun build together. Nothing's worse than having the perfect build but not being high enough level to get the perk you want. Next, I think that a lot of these issues will be resolved as we get more challenges in the game in the form of new weapons, new heists, etc. With OVK saying they're looking into adding more stealth challenges, a lot of the progression woes might be stomped out as we get more challenges and we get more routes to leveling up. Obviously this one simply takes time, and PD3 really needs to make an adjustment now instead of months from now, but in the long term progression as a problem may be resolved naturally even if OVK doesn't do anything to change the system. It's so close to being good, but it definitely needs tweaks. So long as level 100 is the goal, players struggling to get there are going to feel the pain.

The largest problem with the progression system is that it's exactly what they needed for this game. They make you level slow for the first maybe year months, (increases play time) then they change it to make it way faster when there's way more content. This is what happened with Payday 2 at launch.

I dont get why they changed it from payday 2 as you got xp from loot, hidden objectives such as not using key cards for an entire mission, and you had gage packages. The system also gave xp bonuses for maps the haven't been played in awhile as well as bonuses for completing heists in stealth. I dont think people would've had an issue if the challenge system was added onto payday 2 system, but challenge only systems are bad and tend to fail, just look at halo infinite. As for challenges, id like to be able track it during heists.

That's exactly what i think, one other thing i will say is that the game should've launched with more content, at least 50% more of everything, this game is great but it wasn't ready to come out so early, they should've released it on December or early '24. I can't understand many of the decisions they've made, PD3 is a great game but it's deeply flawed, fortunately the developers are communicating with us unlike other companies, so this game still has potential to recover and become the gem it was always meant to be.

I feel like they should change the progression to were you still get xp from the heist but the challenges will be there as a bones and not just the only way to level up

Eh i feel like awarding base exp kinda defeats the purpose of the challenge system, where your level reflects how much of the game you’ve experienced I feel like they just need to drastically reduce the higher tier challenges for heist completions (and maybe weapons kills as well). Lets say for example instead of needing 150 completions for normal, it was 20 completions for stealth and loud and this was the same per difficulty. Modify how much exp you get for each completion, and make it to where each completion up to 20 gets you exp. this still keeps the challenge system while also making it easier to level up and giving you “heist exp” up to a certain point.

Idk if would have same issue as current system but was thinking if they wanted progress to be linked with achievement system would it have been better for them to link unlocking skills and weapon attachments to them instead like weapon attachments are you get kills with that gun Or skills gain from doing stuff like medic tree heal you and your teammates with doctor or medic bag so many times or revive Armor gain or give armor plates Ammo pick up a certain amount of ammo Mower shoot a certain amount of rounds Infiltrator preform x amount of takedowns Sharp shooter get x amount of headshots Demon kill x amount of enemy's with throwable Escapist sprint x amount of distance Enforcer kill x amount of enemy's withing 10 meters Manipulator trade x amount of civilians Engineer deploy x amount of gadgets Gunslinger get x amount of secondary kills Grifter answer x amount of pagers Hacker hack x amount of phone's or computers Tactician stun x amount of officers Strategist mark x amount of people Cqc specialist kill x amount of officers wile having human sheild

I don't mind challenges being a SUPPLEMENTAL piece to the xp system, not the MAIN way of earning xp. There absolutely needs to be a baseline of xp earned based on loud/ stealth and difficulty level for each heist. You can't force players to play in a way they dont want to. It DOES NOT WORK.

Why is everyone asking for base heist xp? We basically get it, it’s just the challenge for beating a heist 5 times divided by 5. Yea the exp gain for it is minimal but it would have been anyways

I miss the infamy progression from payday 2 when you could prestige and have all these different skills or bonuses to get , and I just feel like you don’t get rewarded for stealth anymore like I’ll spend ages trying really hard to do a stealth and in the end I just wonder if it’s worth it because I get nothing for it I might as well gave up and done it loud and another thing I wish they brought back is the pre planning stage where you could pick where you wanted your favours to go and I think they should add a vent or use the lift by the vault in gold & sharke heist when you can drop the loot down stairs to the van and you could then pay in game money to buy that as a favour and call it idk the “Building plans Favour” or something lol

place 100 ammo bags: start a heist, mask up, place bag, restart. repeat this 49x times, done.

Honestly.... the progression is the main thing keeping me from playing the game as much as I want to. If I'm not playing the game how I want to play then i'm obviously not going to have as much fun. I want to keep unlocking everything but I'm hard stuck on the choice of "Do I want to have fun?" or "Do I want to progress". and thats a question you shouldnt have to ask yourself when playing a video game.

one of my biggest issues is that you have no idea when you're going to get skill points. i'm currently level 82ish, i'm missing a few skill points but i have no idea when i'm getting them so the grind feels meaningless to me

3:28 except cosmetics *are* locked behind challenges, because levels are locked behind challenges, and cosmetics are level-locked

The player retention this game as is abysmal. The gameplay loop has to be improved.

The only down side to that guys comment you hearted…. For players like myself who accepted what starbreeze has done and just grinded regardless. I’m level 98 nearly finished combat challenges entirely…. What about me? So 2 levels I stop earning? Then grinding same heist 500 times for sake of 50 levels? When all newer players who play after patch are laughing their way to the bank would just feel like a kick in the teeth to players like myself. Asides that point understandable but the time they’ve taken to get anything done sorta null and voids that statement 😞

In my opinion, i think this system works really well for a game like PAYDAY: THE HIEST, that game did not have many guns and every single gun played a role, so each achievement (tree) kinda forced you to play in different styles, not a lot of hiests, not a lot of things to do. for a small game like payday 1 this system works well, sure it limits the growth of the game and starts to become annoying when you introduce new guns new hiests and ect but thats the point, game isn't big. i think this is the problem with PAYDAY 3, its not meant to be a (small scale game), i don't want to HAVE to kill 1000 cops with EACH smg in order to progress, they all play the similar role. However, i do love the challenges, i do wish we even have a 10k kill challenges for each gun i don't mind them i think they give you more reasons to play guns you love for a long time, but don't make them the only way to progress your level. What are we gonna do once we reach level 140? finish stealth 99boxes a 100 times in order to progress? i think this is bs. Make a base xp for each difficulty, xp bonuses and such for stealth. give us challenges as (achievements) and as things to be proud of and display (like maybe cool pattern for getting the 1000 kills with a gun) or whatever, don't tie challenges to xp unless they are bonus xp. I get the idea that infamy and high level means you did everything in game, i respect that its a cool concept, but why tie the entire system to it? can't you gives us a simple challenge meter? a sub level? something that shows that the player really did everything in the game? like respect or whatever ANYTHING except the main way to level up? Also as of now, the really hard stuff to do in the game isn't awarding. why would i spend 25 or 30 minutes playing Gold and Sharke and get 1.3m$ when i can finish road rage in 8 minutes for 1m?? WHY would i want to stealth Dirty Ice on overkill, clean all the bags, and get 400k ??, this ties to how bad and unawarding the progression system is, it simply does not feel good. As of now there aren't all that many reasons to farm money, i hope they do introduce a safe house SOON, as it might be a good way to dump money on. or at least tie money to levels somehow, PAYDAY 2 made you pay 20m in offshore money in order to do infamy. I love the game and i'm enjoying it a lot, and i know a lot will change and a lot will be fixed. but these aren't DLC level types of fixes, the design is flawed. give us a reason to farm, a reason to level up besides shinny colors. and for the LOVE OF GOD this is a co-op game, allow us to view and add people on steam without having to look manually.

The a difference between forcing and rewarding playstyles. I moved to darktide cuz I can' do whatever I want

Personallyni would just add a flat bit of XP for beating q hiest and thar would fix half of the issues. Ultimately i love this videos as i really REALLY APPRECIATE the fact your takes qlso offer overkill ways to improve there systems... EDIT: I JUST THOUGHT of a good way to update the challenges. And thats to add exp to sort of micro challenges in the hiest They are repeatable and basic but scale off difficulty That way im encouraged to actually go for Overkill

i think chalenges are a good bonus to aid leveling, not as a requirement

Hey RedArcher, I'm only a recent subscriber to your channel and first of all I find your stream summaries very good and interesting. I myself always forget to watch the streams. I agree with you on a lot of points and find it funny/sad that on PC the modding community has already tinkered with many QoL features. For example, we have (albeit as a separate tool) the ability to sort and filter the challenges. Also the possibility to show us the completed challenges with a pop-up in the upper corner. I am currently wondering if it is really that "hard" to program and implement. After 82 hours I have to admit that I am a bit tired. I mean you can only play Gold & Sharke so many times before you know all the tricks, spawns etc. by heart. That's not really good in my opinion. We need a bug fix, QoL and content patch. Quick. I think if it stays like this for the time being, the game will die in the near future.

@Zero-yu9dc

9 ай бұрын

Addition: I myself have just reached level 83 or so and also have the bug with the challenges.

who likes a system that doesnt reward winning maps... only devs probably, who dont play the game. Anyone else in his right mind cant praise that dumb system. If they are "looking into it" now, it means they will change it in 3 months, then it will be patch-approved next year. They imrpoved the stealthing in this game, and put absolutely no emphasis to stealth in the challenges except for the x maps completion. Imagine the level of reflexion they have ...

I think they should just give you xp for being a good teammate and kills and completions, give incentives for kill thresholds, bags secured, objectives completed, revives, deploying your items and gadgets, not being the one to blow the cover while in stealth, answering radios, not killing civs, stuff like that

A sequel is supposed to build off the lessons learned from the previous installments. No repeat them. QoL that was added in payday2 should have been in the third game. (I'm talking about the UI features)

I just hit level 102. The progression system sucks, especially at the later levels. Levelling up in PD2 was a grind the higher level you got, but I could consistently gain xp and there was a visual indication that I was progressing. In PD3, levelling at the start was easy because all the challenges had low requirements to complete. Since maybe level 50 or 60, it has been a chore, I've had to stop using weapons I wanted to use just to do challenges with other weapons to level up. I can go several heists without any real indication that I am making substantial progress towards levelling up. The challenges feel like they should have been implemented to give cosmetic rewards, a perfect example of this being the shoot x amount of zapper packs could unlock the lightning bolt mask pattern. To fix this: just add IP for heist completions.

@revan5293

9 ай бұрын

I am at lvl 56 I just can’t anymore bro 😭😭

Literally just give infamy points per bag secured, maybe like 10 ip per bag on lower difficulties, and more on higher difficulties

I wish it was a system like in Killing Floor 2, that suits the game way more than the current hitman esque system

Wish they could give us some info. Being left in the dark kinda sucks. But hey, thanks Archer!

I would have voted yes I like the challenge system because I like the idea behind it, it gives you parallel IP points for specific things you do in the heist, and that actually plays into the fantasy of getting a notorious heister. About having to do each heist 150 times, .. yes they can solve that very easily and just change it to finish ANY of the 8 heists 150 times times, but that number still is too grindy. So they should change this to give you some IP (not much, because the other challenges (except all the separate weapon based ones still have merit); and then give some extra bonus IP for stealth and difficulty multipliers. They missed so much of the gameplay specific things you do in a heist to add as a challenge, place ziplines, zipline bags, bag money, or jewelry ..... I hope they streamline and polish this system. 7:55 i don't want to spam so I'm not going to name it, but there is this specific site that you might know that will make life much easier in this area (sorting, tracking). Love using it.

Payday 2: 1k Xp for doing stuff payday 3: 1k xp for doing the same heist on overkill 100 times

I played payday 2 for months and months. My favorite stealth heist only has a 130 completions. Which is murky station, one of the fastest to complete (even with all loot) in the game. I'm supposed to play art gallery how many times???

as someone who preordered the game, i have not played it since october 1st 🤣🤣🤣 and im not planning to come back until drastic changes are made to the game because right now the game's a joke

I want CrimeNet and the value of each bag to show as I loot it