To be clear I'm not using the Reddit post as proof the game is going pay to win. It is interesting to read though and brings up some issues the game may be facing related to endgame. I think it makes for a great discussion topic and wanted to share my thoughts with the experience I've had both in Open Beta, and in MMO gaming in general.

@Synthettica

5 жыл бұрын

I would just like to point out the the 1 significantly difficult raid where people were saying high tier battle items were required was nerfed last patch significantly.

@Tenelia

5 жыл бұрын

If we were to use your benchmark of monetization, would Warframe be pay2win?

@nelc2399

5 жыл бұрын

The moment you heard the games is from Korea, it gonna be mindless grinding games and with P2W concept set in place. This is their tradition more than 10 years ago.

Korean dude with ilvl 439 here. I do agree and a lot of people share the same view that battle items are a must starting from 2.5 tier raids. For example, the party members will get pissed off at you if you bring 15% potions instead of 30% or if you come without trace flares to hell gaia. Because, it is pretty damn hard to beat without these items. If you survive with 15% well done. If you die, the blame is all on you. But, the game is designed in a way that most of the items can be farmed or bought at an ingame auction as well as cash shop. You can get this with your 'LIFE SKILL' If your lifeskill doesn't allow you to make that item, sell what you can make to trade off for the item. I see it as a content because its kinda fun to watch the prices of items go up and down depending on which raid majority of people are working on. I mine and make molotov which the price goes up during weekends so i grind on weekdays and sell em all on the weekends. Moreover, I sail to pick up boat blueprints and sell them for gold at the auction. Plus, they are adding patches such as potions becoming buyable with coins you can earn from platinum field. So, id say the game is more of a grind to win, pay if you dont have the time. Now about the bard issue, i do agree that they are highly seek out because they are the ONLY support type class. But support type classes have always been rare and treated as the royals in any mmorpgs so this was sorta expected. Does it mean bards have it easy? NO. In my perspective, bards need to understand the raids and party members more than anyone to be even effective. Bards have the highest rate of quitting during endgame because its so hard. Plus they were nerfed at the 12/12 patch and another nerf could mean extinction of the class so id say we leave em as is. (Im not a bard user i am a soul master user who is really disappointed with its performance and ready to change over to battle master). Warlords are not exactly support but they are known for the suppression skills which means they are likely to put the guardian bosses in groggy state faster. But berserker now does suppression with more dps than warlord so i dont know why you are complaining lol. It's always fun watching ur clips and i could be wrong but i got an impression you are missing some info so here goes my first ever youtube comment.

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

What you said makes sense and I've seen it from personal experience or through other players. I don't think Bards have it easy, but I don't think they should have it easy either. When I talk about balancing them and Warlords alongside other roles, I mean for them to deal reasonably good dps and trying to mix in support abilities. So slightly less dps than average, but support skills to enhance the party to make up for it. I'd really prefer they just not sell consumables on the market. Players buying more from other players instead of buying also from a cash shop is better imo. Even though I play Berserker, this isn't about how it affects my class, but how this affects the game as a whole regarding cash shop item balance, preferential class treatment, elitism, and player economy. I don't claim to be a Lost Ark guru and is why I encourage other players (like yourself) to carry on the conversation. :)

@macjoobyung

5 жыл бұрын

Bards were balanced like you said more damage and reduced support in 12/12 patch so it seems like smilegate has the idea. They do have currency exchange to convert crystals with gold and vice versa and people sometimes buy the consumables from cash shops because they have better deals and stuff. I do see a problem with resurrection feathers tho as they arent something farmable. For those in the west waiting for the release, dont play soul master!lol. if you wish to play fighter class pick (god)infighter.

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

"From pure cosmetic items you cant manage a f2p game" Path of Exile would like to have a word with you.

@shaburanigud

5 жыл бұрын

@@KineticGTR I'm hoping that the cash shop consumables stays, but just stays as a threshold. "Sure its not as great as the ones you can build in end-game LIFE content, and more expensive too, but if you REALLY don't have the time(10 min) and don't want to bargain at all, sure go buy it from our cash shop. Also you can farm cash to buy these ingame" This will make it a last min resort and also stop the auction house from going berserk. Currently cooking is one of the most unpopular life skills since its a slower and more active Life skill, but its the most powerful buffs within the game. Leaving this solely to the players usually means overpriced consumables within the market. BUT if a cheaper solution is given, this might stop the price from sky rocketing too much and break the in-game economy. This would go for other future consumables as well if things ever change. And I hope it stays that way. But srsly. The game needs better cosmetics if they want to get some real money from me.

@craigsayshello8239

5 жыл бұрын

@@shaburanigud yeah biggest grip from me is the cosmetics, they are absolutely trash and the raid gear is trash it fuckn looks the same lol I was hoping they would some variety but godam, especially for zerkers we look like bums until tier 2 gear and that's gonna take awhile, ive only see a few zerkers with 450+ gear on

so whats a good online ARPG to play right now ? I've never really played one

Basically move the goal post far enough where you will need to spend money and buy an essential item to actually progress through the "end game".

hey bro what server do you play?? lets play together sometimes~~.. i`m not a korean but i lived in korea.. i can help you with anything that you want to know..

Pay2win is the most disgusting thing ever in games.

@kendallevans7634

5 жыл бұрын

Its useally broke mfers complaining about it

@duyeddie2463

5 жыл бұрын

then try to make the game and let it survive for a year without pay money or we called " SUPPPORT " . grow up kid

@gorgono1

5 жыл бұрын

@@duyeddie2463 League of Legends bitch, i hate this game but it was the best f2p

@BlobBlobkins

5 жыл бұрын

@@gorgono1 yup, lol totaly best f2p, the only shop items are skins. And they are really rich and succesful.

@iNT3NS3CLUTCH

5 жыл бұрын

@@kendallevans7634 No it's usually casual gamers complaining who wouldn't be good at the game even if it wasn't p2w lol. Lazy people love to complain that people can pay to do something they don't even want to do. It's amazing, real gamers who know how to grind don't care about pay to win, because real gamers care about personal skill progression, if its pay to win literally where you can't obvtain the items in game then i agree its disgusting, but what 99% of casuals call 'pay to win' like BDO for example, is not p2w

Thanks for the info! I might look into reroling a bard or warlord. Have a great Christmas!

Cash Shop consumables sounds like pay to win for me. Also, you said:"all the Cash Shop items can be aqquired without paying." This reminds me of bdo when my friends told me you can buy pets and so on via silver market. Ah good old times, i believed it. Bdo was p2w as well. Change my mind.

Thanks for the Video, If the items are available but are a grind like if it takes 10 hours to find materials and make them but takes only one hour working in real life then people are going to buy them. This game has to have that hard challenge but not to the point to where you say screw this I'm buying my way. This game has to make money some way but has to keep the game challenging and sometimes tough but never give someone a way out of it all by paying because everyone will. 90% skill and playing the game 10% can be for the lazy bunch that want to pay but should not bypass the 90% who are actually playing the game. Think about the long term if it goes p2w then this game will be like the rest but if you keep it hard and challenging and force players to think and not take the easy route then this game will last for a very long time. Thanks for reading this if you read this far.

Remember those times back when putting effort into a game rewarded you with gear, cosmetics and vanity items rather than being locked behind a paywall? If you partake in constant microtransactions you are part of the problem.

In Blade & Soul this is the same situation but with buff classes like Warlock (with his Soul burn) and Kung Fu Master (with Fightning spirit). In BnS the only soothing thing is that you have up to 6 party members so you have 4 spots for whatever class you want, and at some point they made +1 class to each buff: For Soul Burn there is the Warden and for Fightning Spirit there is the assassin. But its still to the point where if you dont have Soul Burn then you probably wont go to the dungeon becouse its soooo much easier with buffs. In Lost Ark what i can tell, that there will be probably at least 1 more class that can do the healing and buffing like the bard. Remember there is 6 more classes to come (i think). Will it solve the problem? Probably not. So i will wait what they cook up until full release.

Path of Exile is indeed one the best F2P example, having a cash shop with only cosmetics and few quality of life items. But it is unfortunatly not comparable imo. On one side you have this very small developer team that wanted to create it's own ARPG inspired from Diablo, starting from scratch and relying on it's comunity, which grew bigger and bigger alongside with them, thanks to their ability to comunicate, exchange and listen to the people who are playing their game; on the other hand, you have a company willing to work in a more "classic" way, building up a huge hype, with a big team and having a really big ambition. I wont be shocked if their cash shop becomes even more agressive and P2W on it's release than now, since they will reset everything. I sincerelly hope they won't, that they will at least keep the shop mostly simillar to how you described it to us in this video: pay to fashion or pay to accelerate your progression (even if the part with the cosmetic makes me think that the people/guilds who's ambition would be to be the first to down/farm end game content will have to give their money for that). As for the Holly Trinity, I don't really have any opinion. I haven't played much different MMO's and allways played with it and if the Holly Trinity is a way to avoid having to pay in Lost Ark, I wouldn't be against it. On this note, I whish you guys a Merry Christmas

@velifurkanturkoglu1387

5 жыл бұрын

since they will reset everything" what do you mean? nothing in game data will be reset afaik.

@emoren188

5 жыл бұрын

@@velifurkanturkoglu1387 What I mean is that on the game release, all account will have to start from scratch. Depending on Smilegate, they might get all the items they bought in the shop back, but they might aswell get some compensation prices as it happened with Wakfu, a game I played when it was on beta (and it was on beta for 3 years), they released the game and erased everything and gave compensation points for the person who bought stuff in the shop

@emoren188

5 жыл бұрын

So to keep the example on Wakfu, the shop when it was on beta was just cosmetics, emotes, a bunch of item that were quite good but not even the bbest inslots (but the best inslots where incredibly hard to get), but after it's release, more powerfull items came in the shop, aswell as exp/loot potions and a "premium" system that allowed you to get even more exp and loot (and for the non premium players, at the end of combats where displayed the loot and exp you would've got as premium). So it didn't really get P2W, but the shop became way more "powerfull"

@shaburanigud

5 жыл бұрын

@@emoren188 Actually they stated that there won't be a reset even after the beta closes. They're just calling it quote "Beta" because they still want to inform the players that there are a lot of bugs and fixes they will have to do and want to communicate with them. At least for the moment until they judge the whole game is stable. In reality its already been officially released since November.

@emoren188

5 жыл бұрын

@@shaburanigud oh ok thank you for that clarification, I didn't know that. In that case I don't see why they would change the cash shop, just probably add more cosmetics :)

I think such powerful consumables shouldn't exist, also every class should have a way to self heal(leach, hp refill over time or some other defense mech). Don't let the greed consume us all. Merry Christmas to you too and keep up the good work!

@craigsayshello8239

5 жыл бұрын

then how are life skillers suppose to make money if the consumables are trash? start life skilling its part of the game jeez.

@pTdeady

5 жыл бұрын

@@craigsayshello8239 I don't play that game cause I can`t but i care more about the game play than the life skillers concerns mb there is something broken too I dunno.

@Jakobasonin

5 жыл бұрын

@@craigsayshello8239 people lifeskill in wow. You just cant replace lifeskills with real money in wow and that's why it works.

Need Halloween and Christmas event like dungeons there should have two classes which can kill each other when in the same area fore example warspear

Missing some DS3 brother! Hope you and your family are well! Enjoying the stream as always!!

Lostark might go P2W at some point but it's not true that consumables are making it that way now. It was today's patch that Smilegate put down all the difficulty of tier 3 raid monsters. Remember it is open beta game that was just released in Korea one month ago. They've been listening to people and fixing everything so far and every Wednesday including today. So I can't really agree with that.

I play couple of weeks so far, was getting impression bard was a must for each party, and they nerfed bard. as long as they keep it in check, balance will be fine, mass heals and mass shield needs to ne nerfed to the ground.

I remember having a conversation with you about me playing a bard and you saying why would you... well this is why and I still will be main-ing a bard.

Hey KineticGTR. You might wanna check if your account gotten re-verified as there has been several re-verification waves these days...I got a non re-verifiable account & got hit this time after dodging previous few waves.

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

All good here. No problems. Thanks for the heads up!

@shinraijiko

5 жыл бұрын

@@KineticGTR Haha ok. Glad to hear that. Looking forward to more of your LA vids since I can no longer play :)

The lack of trinity is what ruined GW2 for me. Not only is it fun to be a certain role, but the GW2 system just doesn't work very well and turns into a rez fest. There needs to be multi-specs for each class like WoW. I want to main the Slayer/Berserker (whatever the GS wielder is called) but I would like the option to tank with it.

@drekor884

5 жыл бұрын

GW2 literally has a trinity now... and has since HoT came out back in 2015.

@adrjjanhunter7946

5 жыл бұрын

amen 🙏

@RoxxBySplix

5 жыл бұрын

gw2 "Trinity" is pretty stupid tbh, its just the result of bad balancing

@filipfenix

5 жыл бұрын

One might even say, Trinity made the game unplayable if you are not a healer/dps or tank/dps.

I think it shouldn't be much of a problem if only some high tier raids require a special class to get things done easier. At some point, if you need a group anyway, it should be like "you either know how to play with your mates/with a group or you gonna lose". Of course, it shouldn't be like that for every endgame raid, but at some point the casual player should have more casual equipment and stuff..otherwise the game is not really rewarding for people that dig more into it to bypass the need for consumables for example. I didn't play the game myself so I can't really decide how this may turn out, but that's my point about at least that. (also, how hard is it to grind those consumables in comparison to buying them? Like "0,01% drop chance or 5$ for 10x from the item shop/loot box?)

So since I wanna play a warlord sounds like I'm good to go either way, even though this is nothing compared to black deserts cash shop

12:52 Dragoon main in FF XIV here. Yup, I know that feeling very, very well. Luckily things aren't as bad as FF11's system, but there have been many times I had to wait 30+ minutes just to do a dungeon or raid. But switching to a tank or healer class, I get an instant queue. While I understand why this happens, I really don't like this system seeping into other games. I want to be able to play the class I want to play, without eventually regretting it because it's not a tank/healer or it's not in "the meta".

@beigeowl2023

5 жыл бұрын

sadly this cant be avoided, one way or another some class/classes wont be used at certain locations becouse of "reasons" and some will be used more becouse of "reasons" like if someone find that team setup that destroy the boss fast and make it basicly easy, that will be the new "team" and the more that find the meta and using it the more it will be used ( sometimes even missused ) best way is to find people you like to play with and just go with the class you wanna play. if they dont allow you doing that find someone that think playing is fun :)

I'm still having a blast with this game. Sometimes I catch myself thinking, how is this free? I seriously would pay a sub fee if it ever gets released in the west. I'm about where you are at with cosmetic only items in any kind of cash shop. As for the consumable debates, so long as we can get these items with a decent grind is fine with me. If players get gated at a certain ilevel, we could all kind of stop and not buy into the store aspect. These things are a push/pull situation. Just because a Dev goes the cash shop route doesn't mean we have to buy into it. Since this game doesn't really push the holy trinity mmo angle, it's kind of up to the player base to get behind composition for endgame. My two cents. Awesome vid as usual. Cheers.

It's gonna be like Dragon Nest and Blade & Soul. First few levels are fine, until you hit a wall and you have to either grind the most tedious part of the game or shell out money. 🚮

Merry Christmas! Early present of P2W news! What Joy!

I kinda think you pushed it too much. I currently see it more as a PTT like warframe. Yeah the consumables a.k.a cooking is kinda pain in the ass but then again not many people are digging that skill and I don't see it as much of a ptw on that one. Not saying its not powerful though. Finally I'm a Warlord user myself, and while we are preferred, that doesn't mean its a cake. And I don't recimmend a bard+warlord combo either. The thing is that the bard and warlord does really subpar dmg. Actually having both increase the chance of failing dye to the time limit. Thus if we fail, the blame turns to us the supports who saved everyone from dying get blamed for subpar dmg. And if want to do some dmg which even then is still subpar, we lose most of our support potential. You'd be surprised how many korean warlord and bard users just wish to be changed to a pure dps like the others so we don't get this bullshit. Finally, the devs said they don't want the holy trinity as well and future balance patches will be come to fix this. Still great opinion and merry Christmas

GW2 realized that in order to bring great end game content, they would need to include healing which completes the holy trinity.There was just no way to really get beyond that content without a dedicated healer even though that game had ways for each class to heal. This seems to be the case here as well. Hard content should take a team of different roles to complete, otherwise it is not fun imo. Just people doing similar damage in different ways. And when the best dps class was found no one would play anything else, not fun very stale imo.

@GRIFFINPOLSKA

2 жыл бұрын

In gw2 you had only mesmer that was tanking and it was for a very short time. You had only dps classes and maybe 2 healers at peak, the rest was buff givers (like perma alacrity renegade, or the guard spec with perma quickness). Thats it. It still had nothing to do with holy trinity of mmos. It only had buffs, heals, and a lot of dps.

LOVE U AND UR CONTENT KINETIC!

Hopefully P2W won't happen. Also, do we have any news or rumours even who will publish this game on EU, if any?

i'm trying to kill 베르투스 Verutus (tier 2 finall gardian). my opinion is pay to try raid....i think my control is good but..it's not a control problem.for example hell gaia, in 3 phase. if you're hited by him your body will burn with 3 stack(60sec). and If you go up to the fifth stack? wow! about 500 damage will bother you(3sec interval). TT i wish other people can understand what i said. have a nice X-mas everybody.

GW2 started with no trinity, but the addition of raids and higher scaling fractals and dedicated support specializations basically turned it into a trinity. #betrayed

Spend 1 hour farming for something. Or spend 1 extra hour at work and spend that money on the item. Who is to decide how someone should spend their time?

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

This isn't about how people spend their time or money, it's how monetization effects the game design which affects everyone playing the game regardless of how they play or pay.

@DarkmonstaR

5 жыл бұрын

according to your logic you just could work for 100 hours and buy an endgame account.

Some say korean game Black Desert is pay to win. And it is. It wasn't always like that though. It used to be pay for convenience. So they made the game super inconvenient. Buy carry weight, inventory space, caracter slots, buy pets to auto pick up items etc etc

Holy trinity is a good thing though. It's much easier to design fights with a holy trinity in mind where you can do different mechanics for different roles instead of a tank n spank fight because you can't foretell all the possible comps players will invent. So yeah, forcing a holy trinity is a good thing for the health of the game. I've watched so many games trying to make mmos without the holy trinity only to fail and add it later on the games life when It's already too late.

Merry Christmas Guys.

Just to be clear, Path of Exile is cosmetic only. There is zero you can buy that will effect your game play (other then how your character looks). You made it sound like this was not the case.

@jean-michelnadeau5447

5 жыл бұрын

Stash tabs are p2w, but you only need to spend 10$ and you're good for ever.

The reason mobas don’t have trinity is because difficulty does not equal bigger numbers. Mobility matters, strategy matters, vision and team work matters. In most mmos difficulty simply = bigger numbers, and factors listed above matter little and can be easily gamed. that’s why team composition becomes a trinity every game. You need healing to sustain a 10min damage sponge raid boss.

In my opinion the only thing that should be a micro transaction is purely aesthetic. And even that is getting out of hand. The reason I play action rpgs is for the loot. And it just feels wrong that the best looking gear can sometimes be bought at level 1 even if it doesnt change your stats. And when you said experience boost are fine, my stomach churned. Did Activision pay you to say that? Love your vids as always!

As I haven't played the game I will not comment on the state of this game. My comment is more in general for games. That being said. If a dungeon can be beaten without consumables or tank/healer then it's an issue of "Git Gud". Endgame shouldn't be easy and making it easier just so people who are "bad" can complete it without consumables and crutches like healers/tanks is a very bad idea. It kills any kind of longevity. If you keep talking about a this game as an MMO you have to also start thinking about it as an MMO (at least somewhat). And that includes premade groups, clans, guilds and progression. The hardest tier of content should take a while to clear. You mention GW2 and how you didn't need the holy trinity. But even so I assume (haven't played it) that you still needed the people to play well, right? Then why is it to much to ask people in this game to play well if they want to clear the hardest content? Now, as I said I haven't played Lost Ark and maybe it way overtuned. If so I see it more as a balancing problem rather than a p2w issue. But then again, what do I know.

Great and very informative impressions. Really looking forward to this game to be available on PS4. Wanna ask for list of games like this one which can be played on PS4 aside from path of exile?

@SapiaNt0mata

5 жыл бұрын

this game will be PC only.

@piscye1806

5 жыл бұрын

game is pc only bro

I'd like to say: you say that the game is heading towards a holy Trinity type game. But that's not gonna happen just because there's incentive to do so. People will almost always play the class they want to play over taking this incentive. Take wow as an example. Queue times are waaaaaaaaaaay higher if you're not a tank / healer especially at low levels. But people who want to play DPS play DPS anyways. Same goes for completely different genres. Like overwatch, an fps. People will always pick their favorite dps even if they need a healer to win a game. Doesn't even matter if it's ranked half the time. People will always prefer their favorite class. I'm guessing what's going to happen are people are just going to stick to their favorite class, and grind it out. Which isn't a big deal to me at all

Well, i agree, but... All raid items can be crafted by diferent life skills, the major thing is PPl complaining about p2w, world be the same complaining, about lvling multiple characters or beeing forced to make life skilling, that is something that PPl always complain. I already have killer that boss whitout any battle item or a bard on the team, its True bard warlord or destroyer, are very specific classes but few other classes have traits on tripods that can help the team, and dont use them cause their own dps will fall down. Im not sayiing i agree whit those items beeing sold on AH but thats the profit for some life skill players cause except those items and the t2 life skill gear ur profit from life skill is 0. That reddit post have some frustration and i agree but when we comment or analyze something we must be correcto and analyze all the facts. If that player have spoken that whit out beeing in a random party ill give im the Credit. In a party where all make diferent life skill content to suport progression he wouldnt talk too much.

The problem isnt class balance. The problem is 50 dudes name yasuo that all want the raid spot while the players who invested time into classes that might be needed, dont have that issue. Too many people want to play pure dps and expect to be rewarded for playing dps. The games mechanics are more important than the side effect of people's choices. You see this in GW2 as well. A lot of bad players play dps because they dont want responsibility, and just wanna see big numbers on their screen. This leads to long que times for those players, and rightfully so.

it's either give everybody ability to heal, or none at all. otherwise the holy trinity is unavoidable.

if it's stays like this ... I'm fine with it. I mean you still have the "git gud" option. BUT, if they add like "+XX% chance to upgrade" or "your item won't break if you fail an upgrade" kind of shit, it will be a bid NO for me.

Nope they had the chance to make ARPG healers and make them fun or at least interesting but they went the no heals yawnfest route

I pray to jesus you can turn camera shake off

There is very little chance that it will be anything other than a good looking game with pay for huge convenience and grind till you die, the question is how balanced will the grind be, if they make it that having to get a certain item to be just competitive in raid then yeah that is just sad. The saddest part is that there have been games in the last 4 to 5 years that have had potential to be brilliant, but because they had that potential, they went the route of market it like it is, then switch the bait and rake in as much cash as possible, we need to understand that games released now a days have projection of 5 months rather than years, and if they can make the cost of development back in that time then its is a net gain for the company. and its a product well sold. So yeah, i do not believe that this game will be any different, especially with the huge development time it had, the economical stress that it must have went through is not something we can comprehend, and not going with the cash in as fast as possible before the honeymoon period is over, would be suicidal. But the biggest factor in all this will be gamers in the end. If the game goes had on pay to win, will most of the gamers waiting for this for over 4 year will be able to just stop playing and control themselves, well history says not. Bless is the perfect example of this kind of behavior. not much different from feminist are we.

I think if those items are obtainable in the game at a reasonable pace then its alright. Abou the P2W issue tho, a game doesn't need to be P2W to have a bullshit cash shop. But I suppose that won't be an issue with Lost Ark. About the trinity, I personally like t he trinity BUT I found out recently i really can't stand huge queues. It's the reason I don't wanna play FF XIV anymore. I don't like playing tank &healer & being forced to sit in a queue for at least 15 min just isn't fun. I think the problem with Bards & Warlords isn't just a balancing issue. I have no idea how they work but if they have so much utility to a party (like tanking or healing) its gnna be a balance nightmare. They're either going to be necessary (coz ppl need a tank or a healer) and if they nerf them too much ppl won't play them at all anymore. Like I said, i don't know how those classes work (i haven't played the game at all yet.) But the best way to go about it is to make the more in line with the other classes & have a bit of useful utility in the shape of healing or defensive abilities but not let it be their main focus. We'll see what they do I guess.

Xp and drop boost is acceptable

imo buy to play ($15-20) + cosmetics shop = best way to monetize the game. Pay-to-win is a direct way to games death. There is another arpg coming out soon - Pagan Online .. we'll see the example of what I'm talking about.

pay to win is anything that gives a player advantage over another player who doesn't spend money on the game. Like the outfit in BDO.

lets be real, it will be pay 2 win, theres no doubt, if u still have doubt its like you never played any of kr or smilegate games at all. 2ndly, holy trinity isnt that bad, even if there arent any holytrinity, kr will make their own holytrinity and it will be the same. look at gw2, there is no holy trinity, you also dont need communication in that game. unless you look for one intentionally. The world is interesting in because you have front line, back line and medic.

I never understood the need for some players to remove utility and support roles from RPG’s a full damage dealing group is very veeery boring

Game developers always walk the line of P2W, for it is easy to appeal to the desires of players. I really hope they do not push those consumable for it is indeed a P2W feature. If they plan to they should tone down the amount of time it takes to farm them.

send them this video

My main game is BDO for almost 3 years. Just waiting for something that is open world and combat system of BDO without the toxic flaws of the game. Of course nothing is perfect there might be some areas that we players dont like but i hope someday.

@Jakobasonin

5 жыл бұрын

If bdo was not p2w id still play it. Really confused how people dont find anything else to do instead Kakao still makes money of off the people melting their pockets even more. As long as people let it happen, why would it change? Its like working for free. If people pay money for "thing a" why would someone else give you "thing a" for free

@AonyjsViolmlar05

5 жыл бұрын

@@Jakobasonin we have different view of p2w. I dont have tons of $ to waste on the game though but im thankful to those who spend because of them i can play for free and just buy outfits that i really like.

@Jakobasonin

5 жыл бұрын

@@AonyjsViolmlar05 do you pvp?

@AonyjsViolmlar05

5 жыл бұрын

@@Jakobasonin i do join a node war active guild for a year but then most of my friends stop playing due to real life grind you know get married and having a child. Lucky me i can still play 1 hour on my off even i have 2 kids and i even buy one of my kid bdo account. And we do enjoy it chilling killing world boss if i have extra time we explore the world map and just kill random stuff(not players) unless they started it, mostly we practice in arena if we are bored doing story quest. I left my pvp guild and now on a chilling guild keeps me sane imo. Not forcing me to grind all day just to get 500 gs like i dont have a life. Most of my silver comes from fiahing and daily login so yeah im a casual or is it a casual if you are afk fishing xd while im working.

@DeTaXeSports

5 жыл бұрын

@@AonyjsViolmlar05 Sounds like a better life than mine but yea of course it's not pay to win if you dont strive to actually "win". To me, the only "win" to get in bdo is to win any sort of pvp and simply enough, the more you pay the easier it is to get the good gear and gear pretty much leads to winning so thats exactly what pay to win is for me.

Why support cosmetic when you can have it for free as PART of the game? It players like you that allow this (insert foul languge here) to become the norm and proclaim its okay.

Dam that game looks so cool

In my humble opinion P2W has NO place in gaming AT ALL. Cosmetics sure, I have bought quite a few myself in WoW (quit 3 months ago now as BFA is Kodo Poo Doo). As for the possible Holy Trinity emerging I sincerely hope this wont be the final case. Your point was SPOT ON about queue times. Most of the time I played healer in WoW and sometimes Tank but on the odd occassion when I went dps I could not believe the queue times. It comes down to the type of people who want that responsibility, keeping aggro and using def CDs at the right time or keeping people alive Vs winging it and sometimes slack / no effort mode Vs reward. In WoW anyway the rewards for signing up as tank or healer when there is a low Tank/healer sign up do not reflect how important those roles are. Some may argue that you only need a good healer with Dps who know what they are doing to steam roll. Well, the chance of getting such groups for high end game content isnt THAT high. Too many times I have been tanking at good speed only to have a dps with stupidly superior mobility zing past and just ninja pull everything. Just makes the tank feel redundant. I have had many tell me "what does it matter if u get the job done?". It matters. It matters because that's the role to which I was assigned/assigned myself. However for Lost Ark I believe an all dps grp should be allowed to prevent both long times waiting and to make sure everyone gets a chance. An not an PC cow but I hate ppl feeling excluded in a game, mayb this is why I love boosting ppl more than doing my own progression in Diablo III. Anyway I will pray for LA. ty for ur continued posts KineticGTR...BTW when are you gona make a cooking show as you're always eating haha?:D

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

Maybe I'll make French Toast for you guys like I did today for Christmas family breakfast :)

@Maximum7077

5 жыл бұрын

I am totally agree! P2w poisons everything

@Jizzlewobbwtfcus

5 жыл бұрын

@@KineticGTR WOOP NOMNOM!

@Tooshkit

5 жыл бұрын

wow is Way more p2w than lostark

@Jizzlewobbwtfcus

5 жыл бұрын

@@Tooshkit how is WOW p2W? the only things you pay real money for in WoW is in-game currency (WoW Token), Cosmetics, mounts, pets, character transfers, name changes, lvl boost, sex change, faction change. The only thing you may POSSIBLY argue that is P2W is WoW tokens but even the fact that you can buy BoE items from raid drops in the AH doesn't really classify because your're not buying from the game store for a singular gear item. The gold u get from a WoW token can be used for anything so there is no restriction there.

smilegate nerfted tier 3 raid difficulty through 12/26 patch. from now on, you can beat tier 3 bosses sooooooooo easily. hold my beer :3

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

nerfing content difficulty isn't the answer, but just a quick solution I guess till they can work out more complicated balancing.

i will say this players make it p2w and the games dev go like: Well they like this way of spending money we will keep doing it.

Who here plays in egharam? Add attacc

This game is fantastic and right now it's not ptw. Soon however it will be, especially with who smilegate are planning on partnering with on an EU/na release. It's so sad.

@crossfire340

5 жыл бұрын

They haven't stated anything about who they are going to partner with for NA or EU. RU did get scuffed though.

@YaYa-ex8cu

5 жыл бұрын

@@crossfire340 I think kakao is the one putting it out in EU/NA >.

@borgresearcher

5 жыл бұрын

@@YaYa-ex8cu plz not kakao ... i just quit bdo a few weeks ago and looking forward to play this game just to know kakao will be the publisher plz nooooo

drg lfg (sniper rings) x2 ; ;

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

*cries in wyvern

not concerned here rn because it'll never come to the US

Not gonna waste more time on that game then. I guess i can play it if it comes to EU, but not in a hardcore way. Great reference to MHW btw. This is how games should be done. Old style: buy, play, forget the world exists. Today games always want more money from you - DLC here, DLC there, cosmetics here, consumables there. And to talk about Korean dude below - i already have a job, and i don't want to 'work' in game just to sell my time, and buy something else with "money" i got. I wanna play my game, wich i payed for. Thank you Capcom for bringing good old times.

Why can’t they do both?

Yea i will grind gold and other in the same time will grind god gear... but still its not pay 2 win :D i can achive everything in 1000 years /guys dont play p2w games and try to explain to yourself that they are not p2w :P

to hell with P2W gaming industry is fucked up now!

I totally disagree with everyone who says PoE isn't pay to win lol. It is LITERALLY the DEFINITION of pay to win... What is the goal in PoE? To clear content or min max gear. For one the ammount of money you can make via selling items in stash tabs is insane, and the only way to make good currency in game. You will need a currency tab 100% if you take the game seriously, on top of NUMBEROUS other tabs. These tabs are extremely overpriced for what they are, and you will be spending a pretty penny on them. Secondly, you can literally buy full sets of the best gear in the game for real money since there is no soulbinding like in diablo.... you can LITERALLY make a character, get it to max level in a few hours and instantly surpass everyone who's been grinding for moneys with some swipes of a credit card. In conclusion all the youtubers who praise PoE's monetization have never played the game seriously, because after only playing for a week or so casually you don't realize how VITAL tabs are to taking the game seriously. Secondly while buying gear isn't enforced by the game directly, it technically is as many other games realize having no soulbinding in a game leads to this kind of 2nd market behavior. The dev's clearly encourage this type of play with stash tabs, they just don't out right say it.

@Klainhz

5 жыл бұрын

you can perfectly clear the game without the need of buying any tab or playing path of trade, it's "free to play" not "all for free"

Bring it to the west, I’ll pay $20 for it to have no loot boxes or any of this bullshit.

ㅋㅋ 로스트아크가 잘되고 있으니 내가 기분이 좋네

Ok, imagine yourself being a game developer for a second. So, your game is F2P: no subscription, no fees, no season pass or other things. How the heck are you going to make money from your game than? You need to keep servers, you need to pay people for their job, you need money for updates. What can help you to make money? Ofc, it's a gaming store. Making some of elements p2w you make people buy these goods from your store. It's a simple but effective business model. I don't blame them. Otherwise the company goes bankrupt very soon.

Stay away with anything that smilegate makes.

If you know smilegate you know it's p2w. Only just smile gate hides the pay2win content very well and up to a certain point not bad either. But whether mobile or PC payt2win 100%

It is a korean MMO. Go figure.

It will become Pay to Win when it is released all over the world, they still cannot do it at the moment because it is still in development, otherwise they would lose users, the Asians have never had problems with pay to win and play easy, look at all the mmo they have lootboxes and content to progress, Mu Legend is an example and the reason why it was abandoned by everyone, accounts deleted after many people had spent real money, you don't drop anything if you don't pay. Lost Ark captures for the graphics and it will also be a nice game, but I would never pay for any content that helps to gain experience or for objects such as weapons, armor, etc., I agree with the aesthetic contents as on PoE, but not beyond this, because in all pay to win games they make it difficult to drop important items, just to force you to buy them because of the frustration and the time spent, as far as I'm concerned, any pay to win game should remain in the countries where it comes from, if you want to publish it in other countries where this type of content is not accepted, you have to eliminate the pay to win, adding only aesthetic content, otherwise you don't publish it, this type of Korean market I have never endured, I don't want to be bad nor offend anyone but, it is a people that thinks only of money, all the mmo have failed for this and they are all identical, same assets, same 20 year old graphic engines, poor support and unstable servers, invest little, earn a lot.

Those raids are supposed to be hard. If you're not good enough and you need to buy items to help you, that's on you. People should blame their own weakness instead of blaming the game. Also if the holy trinity isn't useful at least in the end game then what's the point of raiding with other players? That's what made me stop playing blade and soul. Dungeons are just a group of dps mechanically pulling out their best rotations and you feel like there's no one really essential to the team. There's no cooperation at all. I'm pretty sure that's why makes the player base so elitist. It's all about how good you are at your rotations. You don't have various people with various roles and qualities and reason to be in the team. Even in mh there's different weapons with different roles and utility.

@effive7817

5 жыл бұрын

MH meta is 4 damage dealers. At best you have 1-4 with some means of CC (ko/sleep) but besides that it's all else damage on their builds. Maybe they'll add bosses where dealing damage in certain parts/combinations/mobs induce different effects to produce some actual teamwork aka MH, instead of 4 being existing next to each other depleting the life bar.

arpg monster hunter XD

Called p2w on this shit years ago.

So, Lost Ark is just another korean MMO after all. Sadly.

@ronkevin8749

5 жыл бұрын

Still On OBT

It is pay to not suffer..from the abuse of guardians

BDO ARPG

But realistically I think the holy trinity is the way to go with this game. Maybe later they can add a matchmaking system.

@SapiaNt0mata

5 жыл бұрын

fuck holy trinity.

holy trinity is what gives the group the need to work together and make the raid a group adventure, if everyone is just looking after himself, then there is no point in MMO to begin with.

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

Perhaps for you, but there are plenty of games that don't have a holy trinity and they do just fine as online multiplayer and MMO games. Diablo, Warframe, Borderlands, Monster Hunter, Battlefield, Guild Wars, and more. Online multiplayer RPGs is more than just tanks, healers, and dps. It's performing well and assisting others with the skills you have to complete objectives.

KR version is always gonna be p2w they dont give a fuck. NA/EU will be toned down. But shit will come also

Anything but pure cosmetics(no lootboxes) and XP boosts is BS.

lol p2w isnt easy to define?? seriously ! how about something u cant get from ingame by only ur visa swipes? or how about limit f2p and to unlock some features by only ur visa swipes ? i mean wtf is wrong with new generation who cant understand what p2w is !

@KineticGTR

5 жыл бұрын

So if you can buy something on the shop that you can't get just from playing, but gives the player no advantage and is only cosmetic, you consider that Pay to Win?

@mindshifter5772

5 жыл бұрын

@@KineticGTR p2w is advantage you get in the game. if it's outfit without anything other than look ! yeah there is no advantage here . but, u know there are "cosmetic" outfits with stats in them.for example BDO outfits.also , there are ways to sell account with that outfit u cant get ingame by making it "limited"! or many crazy ways they can give such an account value more than normal account by cosmetics. so yeah i'm against cosmetic ! i dont want players compete with their real life money instead of hardwork achievements allowing them to get that special cosmetic.

There is no OR. If you can buy an INGAME ITEM THAT MAKES YOU SKIP CONTENT IT IS A BLUNT PAY TO WIN SCENARIO. Dead game. Dead dead dead dead dead . Do you remember AcheAge , no you don't no one does. No one remembers pay to win games, as they instantly die. If game developers intend into dividing the gaming community to Payers and NON-Payers then to hell with this game and to hell with gaming.

It's an Asian MMO. Since when are we not clear on the fact that Asian MMO's have shady business practices? It's intrinsic to their culture, and sadly it's becoming the norm in western games as well. When are people going to stop being sheep?

This entire post sounds like shitters not being able to clear endgame content. Until there's some actual p2w evidence, I'm not convinced that this will progress into full p2w.

I think the talk about how a korean game is p2w or not for me an Eu player dose not mater. In the west will be a different chas shop sow this discussion is meaningless. For me the game is not p2w at all,belive i have played dragon nest and man,if you want to see a p2w game that is the one foe you(and you still can be good as f2p player). This game is totaly free sow you dont have to play any money to experince it. If you like and get good in a f2p game i think you should use some money at least to support the team that have made it. Smile gate is not a charity comapny ,how they can make there money back. Look at there product, AAA experience and content in a f2p game,you liyeralu have no excuse to cry ahout p2w. What im trying to say is that for me personally i dont mind a f2p game being p2w because is free,if you dont like dont play it,if you like it invrst time and money. If the game was b2p and still had a cash shop with those items in it ,neaw there is a problem. Is hard for me to belive what ppls have probem this days with f2p games. When a game has the model f2p you should know what you are geting in(Exclude MOBAs those dont count,im talkinh excluesively to MMORPGs). Sow this are my thougs in the end,love You r videos Kinetic and have Happy holidays man !!And there are tons of games out there and tons to come,lost ark is not the only game out there,and for me is not sow awsome like was 4 years ago when i saw it,but is still Oben beta.

@GhostInTheShell32

5 жыл бұрын

It was a time the same with BDO different Cash Shop in EU but week after week they sneak in the P2W items from Korea

When was a Korean MMO not pay to win ? it will be p2w .

@martinwinter8982

5 жыл бұрын

there are many..... they are p2w in the west but not in korea. most of the time its not the korean developer, its the western publisher.....

After playing BDO for years, and other Korean MMOs, I can say I don't trust any Korean game that is buy to play. I don't even trust any western buy to play games either nowadays, as big companies like EA, Acitvision Blizzard, etc., went down the cash grab road too. The only working solution for an MMO is the subscription business model. Most likely a sub based game won't have microtransactions, and if they do, it'll be cosmetics only. Also as a whole community of subscribers you can make changes easily by just unsubscribing if you don't like where the game is heading. This is why developers don't like it.

@SyerrSilversoul

5 жыл бұрын

You don't trust western buy to play games you say. Buy to play MMO Guild Wars 2 would like a word. Cashshop is cosmetic. Cashshop currency called gems can be bought with gold at a decent rate so you can buy anything from the cash shop just by playing long enough. Base game is free to play with some restrictions.

Just dont play it then i dont get all the complaining just dont play it

IT IS NOT ARPG. It's classic mmorpg with isometric view

ehhh i still don't think that's pay 2 win... that's just silly... if you're still able to obtain those consumables from just normal means aka farming, then I think it's fine if they give it out in the cash shop... It just means for those that don't have to much time on their hands and still want to play. they can just fork over the money to catch up... Simple, Will they get a head? Sure they will. By how much? Hmm not sure how much a head they will be a head if they just buy those random boxes. Cause in the end you'll all be in the same page in the end game.

@elwind1729

5 жыл бұрын

How can you be in even field with someone that casually buys experience and drop rate boosts?In an mmo environment?Gtfo this is P2w to the core.

@Warzol

5 жыл бұрын

@@elwind1729 uhh not really? and you need to chill tfo dawg. tone it down a bit. discuss not get hostile. :T

@elwind1729

5 жыл бұрын

@@Warzol "not really" is not an argument.Why not then?explain

@Warzol

5 жыл бұрын

@@elwind1729 "It just means for those that don't have to much time on their hands and still want to play." I thought I did there.

@elwind1729

5 жыл бұрын

@@Warzol and that means they are gaining time,you idiot,aka p2w which since you wondered in the beggining,means pay. To. Win. And in this instance you buy yourself into the content.Its the definition of pay to win.

Pay to win is different from Pay to Accelerate. A legendary item only obtainable in the shop with real money that gives an advantage is pay to win. An xp boost or a loot booster is Pay to Accelerate because in the end, i will get to the same point but it will take longer, and i see no problem with the later because all players do not have the time to play 10 hours a day to level up... The problem is players today are lazy, don't want to farm their items / gear and want to win the end game with little to no effort, but it's not working like this...

@lka6385

4 жыл бұрын

Different? accelerate give advantage for all droppable contents and boss raid level. Pay to accelerate like xp boost ecc is pay to win.

@azarhielsombrelame5659

4 жыл бұрын

@@lka6385 Pay to win = Power advantage that you can only get in the cash shop. Pay to accelerate = Being at max power the first but not more powerfull than players wwho will be at end game a week / month later... An XP booster is not pay to win, a sword sold at cash shop with 50 more power is Pay to win....