On les garde. Vous n'allez pas vous mettre a faire les wokistes non ?

Bravo Antoine NOUIS vous êtes le meilleur pour éclairer MARGUERAT

L'explication de Marguerat - sur la paternité de Paul des Épîtres pastorales -est intéressante et même crédible mais je ne la trouve pas suffisamment convaincante non plus. À plusieurs reprises, Marguerat a fait état de son admiration pour Paul et a couvert ce dernier d'éloges. Aussi, j'ai le sentiment que Marguerat tente moins d'interpréter/contextualiser que de disculper Paul d'un procès (injuste) en misogynie. L'objectif est donc louable mais toute la question est de savoir si cela peut-être fait sur le dos de l'Écriture. D'ailleurs, l'Apôtre Pierre n'évoque-t-il pas lui-même des lettres de Paul "où il parle de ces choses, dans lesquelles il y a des points difficiles à comprendre, dont les personnes ignorantes et mal affermies tordent le sens, comme celui des autres Écritures" ? (2 Pierre 3.16). Si même pour les contemporains de Pierre, certains passages pauliniens peuvent être hermétiques (et donc potentiellement manipulables) , que dire d'aujourd'hui ?

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Excellent ! Sauf que Pierre prévient que tout ce qu'a écrit Paul a été tordu par des impies comme le reste des Écritures. Et c'est pour cela que la terre périra par le feu.

Très belle explication.

Des affirmations qui n'engagent que son auteur. . D.M déduit l'ancienneté des écrits d'après sa propre compréhension des Ecritures. Auto-évaluation qui n'a pas de fondement solide. Il remet en cause l'autorité Divine des Ecritures, les assujettissant à l'opinion de l'auteur dans un contexte social donné. Méthode très risquée voire dangereuse.

On jette, Paul n'est pas Jesus

The supposed reasons for which Christianity is described as patriarchal are the following : God as a Father : I don’t see the problem with God being referred to as a father. Statistically, the parent that tends to disappoint his children is most of the times the father. Look around you. In most families, children are often hurt by their father, rather than their mother, hence the expression “daddy issues”. It is actually good to find a replacement for the father figure somewhere, and who better than God to provide that replacement. Jesus is a man : During the time when Jesus preached, society was underdeveloped and not “modern” by our standards. Teaching required moving from a city to another, completing long journeys be it during the day or at night, sleeping on the streets in the cold, and sometimes being hosted by random people to sleep at their place. A woman who would have slept in many houses and gathered a large following would have been accused of being a prostitute. So Jesus being a man fits the times during which He was born. The 12 apostles are men : All of the apostles (except Judas who committed suicide) died in atrocious ways. Paul was beheaded. Peter was crucified upside down. Andrew was crucified. Thomas died when pierced through with the spears of four soldiers. Philip was cruelly put to death by a Roman proconsul. Matthew was stabbed to death in Ethiopia. Bartholomew died as a martyr for the gospel. James as reported by the Jewish historian Josephus was stoned and then clubbed to death. Simon, the Zealot ministered in Persia and was killed after refusing to sacrifice to the sun god. Matthias was the apostle chosen to replace Judas. Tradition sends him to Syria with Andrew and to death by burning. John is the only one of the apostles generally thought to have died a natural death from old age. The apsotles travelled far and wide to preach in many countries, in the cold, and sun, and on the streets, and without a home to host them except for the occasional generosity of strangers. Asking men to do the tough and uncomfortable phsycial jobs, and then meet a harsh death, is not patriarchal. It’s called chivalry. And once again, a woman going from city to city and sleeping on the streets, or at strangers’ places would have been accused of being a prostitute back in those days. That being said, Jesus had female students. As evident at the time of crucifiction, it was many women who stayed with Him at the cross. He ministred to both men and women alike. For instance, the verse where He as teaching and Martha the sister of Lazarus was more interested in the housework : “Martha, Martha, thou art careful and troubled about many things: But one thing is needful: and Mary (her sister) hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken away from her.” Women were also community leaders back in those days. Furthermore, there are millions of churches built bby Christianity to honour women all over the world, be it Saint Mary, Saint Rita, Saint Thérèse etc. We go to church to venerate women. There are many subjects: maths, physics, chemistry, biology etc. and spirituality is a field of study. Just like women who excel in the field of medecine are acclaimed by the medical community and get hospitals built in their names, so did Christianity honour its exceptional female students by canonizing them and buidling magnificent cathedrals in their honour. The passage that asks women to submit to their husband in St Paul’s letter : Ironically those who quote that passage do not quote the passage that comes right after it which is adressed to men : “The husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church . . . as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. They forget to cite the sentence right after it : “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself up for her” (Eph 5:23-25). Christ taught many things through both words and actions. He washed the feet of His disciples. He told them “whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant”. And most importantly Christ gave his life for his church thus teaching that “There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends.” So the bar He sets for husband’s behaviours with their wives is quite high. The passage that says women cannot be priests in St Paul’s letter : If one’s restriction as a woman is that she can become a nun, but not a priest, i.e. she can do everything a priest can do, except oversee weddings, funerals and baptisms, I don’t think it’s a tragedy… There are far worse things than can happen to you in life… The passage in St Paul’s letter asking women to be quiet in the church : 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, Paul wrote: “As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church” (verses 33-35). The passage is not pleasant, but it is not tragic to ask women not to gossip in the church gatherings, knowing the initial gatherings used to happen in houses, over meals sometimes, identical to the last supper, before being done in dedicated edifices i.e. cathedrals . Apparently in the context, many women were turning the church meetings into gossip sessions. Finally, Jesus did not say that as women we are half of a human being, that our worth is half that of a man, that we inherit half of a man’s share, that our husband can beat us, that we are supposed to cover ourselves, but the men are not supposed to, that we are supposed to be monogamous, modest and restrained, but our men polygamous, that we have to take permisison of a male guardian be it our father, husband, and in their absence our son, even if he’s younger than us, before travelling, that we are not allowed to drive, that our education is not important, that we do not get the custody of our children. So saying Christinaity is patricarchal, as in belittling to women, is inaccurate.