I got saved, went to church on the Sunday and the following Saturday went out drinking with my husband as we did once a month, and it tasted terrible! I kept trying it, as didn’t know any better, but it tasted nasty and so I’d ended up with juice, but still kept trying it. Eventually I got baptised in the Holy Spirit and then heard the Lord saying “give up that last drink!” I’ve never drank since, about 40 years now!

@susanstacey4245

2 жыл бұрын

That’s my story in 1980 but I did have a drinking problem

@elises2074

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for sharing!

@jazzyfrank1

2 жыл бұрын

🥰

@grayghost1423

2 жыл бұрын

Good job.

@iammattredmond

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you Holy Spirit for speaking

My husband was saved and filled in the Holy Spirit as a young child and over the years has struggled with living a life fully in Christ. Recently he has been drinking heavily and has decided to open up and confess this. He is 7 days sober and I am covering him daily in prayer.

@cynthiarosas8214

2 жыл бұрын

If your having problems and your going drinking or doing other things are not of the lord ask jesus into your heart again 💓 ♥️

@NichelleLC

2 жыл бұрын

Keep praying. Nothing is impossible with the Lord!

@psilva7684

2 жыл бұрын

@Ilionshebnne Mro They are stumbling blocks

As a pastor’s wife and a woman in ministry for 11 years, I have never seen one positive thing come from drinking. The Bible makes it clear that drunkenness is a sin, but social drinking is controversial. Even social drinking hasn’t done a positive thing in a Christian’s life. It’s a crutch. I pray people are willing to surrender to the Spirit’s working and get rid of alcohol altogether.

@aaronmartell3046

2 жыл бұрын

I got a DWI. Never once blamed the bottle and all the while the Lord has blessed me more than ever in my life because of it. You say nothing positive has come from drinking, well all of my positives have come from it. Drinking has never been a crutch in my life and my purpose was to go through that to realize that I can't look down on people because they drink or have been addicted to anything. Don't be a hypocrite and stop pointing the finger. Thats how you alienate people with real addictions that need Jesus more than you or I at the moment.

@psilva7684

2 жыл бұрын

@Ilionshebnne Mro Brian borderson. Is a stumble block I speak fromexperience

@psilva7684

2 жыл бұрын

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses [who by faith have testified to the truth of God’s absolute faithfulness], stripping off every unnecessary weight and the sin which so easily and cleverly entangles us, let us run with endurance and active persistence the race that is set before us,” ‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:1‬ ‭AMP‬‬

@randyhartzell8564

2 жыл бұрын

Now post verse saying not to drink...good like a medicine

@burarobinson

2 жыл бұрын

Matthew 11:18-19 (NASB 2020): For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’ 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man and a heavy drinker, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ And yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.” I hate when religious people try to one up Jesus. In this Bible text Jesus clearly shows that the religious leaders were not happy with A godly man like John the Baptist or happy with Christ himself who ate and drink wine with sinners. Jesus drink alcohol and he hung out with people who drank alcohol and the pharisees were not happy with him either. But when someone of the faith tries to act superior to others because they do not drink shame on them. Therefore shame on you. If you do not Want to drink simply do not drink. But don't act superior because Christ himself drank

This is such powerful topic. "If you go to anything other than God, that is idolatry" - Joni Lamb. Thank you

Levitical priests could not drink wine or strong drink in their service to God during their 2 wk turn. We are Kings and Priests now, who serve God full time. Just a thought to consider too.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Unlike the Anglican (Church of England) "priests" who finish off what is left in the large communal cup of wine in the superstition that the cup must be drained empty! Hic! 🤯

My father was an alcoholic, I went through a phase of drinking, it caused nothing but problems, that was 30 some years ago, When I truly became born again, my appetite’s were changed. there is also a verse that says whatever you are a slave to, that is your master, whether to sin or to righteousness. I don’t believe in drinking just to make someone else feel comfortable or to think I’m inviting, that is compromise being used as an excuse that one is being inclusive…how can we lead someone to the light, while we are playing with darkness..

God delivered me from alcoholism 10 years ago supernaturally during a church service. I asked God to deliver me. I surrendered and the miraculous happened. I’m believing God to deliver family members from this bloodline curse. God is sooo amazing!!

The Holy GHOST is that new wine. I can get high on Jesus, any time I want.

While in school my first year I took a class it included teaching on various drugs, alcohol, nicotine, also various types of pills and medication prescribed and it's affect on the body. It is amazing what alcohol does to the body. I still have my book its called uppers and downers and all a rounders. I cried when reading it and thinking of my son using some of the things listed. Christians when you are " born again" as Jesus said you become a new creature, so let us stop making excuses to drink, smoke medical marijuana, and do things that sinners of the world do. Let us be "Holy people" and live and treat our bodies as the temple of the Holy Spirit. If you get full of the new wine of the Holy ghost you won't need a drink because there is no comparison!!🥰

@consuelowalker8370

2 жыл бұрын

Amen.. Yes we are God Holy People and it is a Sin to Drink Alcohol

@holyexperience1976

2 жыл бұрын

Please pray for my boyfriend who smokes pot. Yes, it's natural but it does not mean it is meant to smoke.

@kellijoroberts7394

2 жыл бұрын

Food can also be just as much of an issue...Gluttony.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@consuelowalker8370 why did Jesus drink wine then and change water into wine at the end of a wedding after the guests had already drunk and the wine had run out? That doesn't suggest sin.

@monapacheco7580

2 жыл бұрын

When they made the point very clear that drinking alcohol was not a sin every word they had to say after was weakened

They talked about non-alcohol drinks, when out in public, at a party. What about the appearance & influence, & wanting to fit in with the drinking world - on purpose?

I drank from the age of 18 to 34. It was a complete waste of my young life. I can tell you that there is no positive benefit to drinking alcohol. The pros of not drinking far outweigh any excuse someone would use IE doctor say it's good for your heart. The Bible says to be sober-minded and I know that doesn't just concern alcohol. But at this season we are in it should be literal. When you are under the influence of alcohol no matter how much you do drink whether it's 1 or 10, your mind is altered and gives an Open Door deception and other demonic activity. As the scripture instructs us, " be not drunk on wine but be filled with the (HOLY not unholy) Spirit. Any high that feeds the flesh is a pathetic demonic counterfeit to the beautiful wonderful pure peace that we get from the presence of Holy Spirit. Thank you for bringing up this subject it's much-needed.

@khappy1286

2 жыл бұрын

Well said.

@Hackshots68

2 жыл бұрын

I honestly got nothing beneficial out of this, which is sad because I would have thought they would have done some serious research before speaking on this subject and what the word says. Basically what they said was Leadership in the church shouldn't drink because of their position, but if you do drink at home😥The bible has so much to say about drinking and they didn't even touch much of it😥

@lindac2554

2 жыл бұрын

@@Hackshots68 Troy Black covered the topic excellently See Troy Black Sermons

@randyhartzell8564

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your thoughts, I stick to what Bible says

@karendavidson7538

Жыл бұрын

You spoke that so beautifully,I don't think anyone could have said it better,so therefore it had to come straight from the Holy Spirit!

Thanks so much. I’ve been sober for 20 years and I thank God it got rid of all my alcohol related problems. Including prison time. I don’t miss it as well as I don’t want to be a stumbling block to new believers. Or a stumbling block to believers who struggle with alcohol.

Money is not fixed evil- the love of money is. Same with alcohol

Thank you for this. As a leader of our Church’s Men’s Ministry and someone who struggles with alcohol, i am enlightened & encouraged. God bless you.

@JayJay-ox6rs

2 жыл бұрын

Praying for you Brother in Jesus name! I speak deliverance and healing over your life right now in Jesus name!

Thank you so much for addressing this topic. Most pastors these days will not even touch the topic and you all did this so well! Thank you!

@MTknitter22

2 жыл бұрын

yes @Adele A and really with much alcoholism, what does it say about the church that this is a pastoral taboo? i had never realized it till this program! thanks so much Joni

@jerrysingho1275

2 жыл бұрын

I would rather they spoke on prosperity gospel and how some pastors talked to people into makin themselves rich.

I kept fooling myself that I can have a drink or two no big deal well it is a big deal and it opens a door to the enemy. We are to keep alert and sober minded. Anything that distorts our minds, our judgement and our emotions etc. is not good. There are consequences to drinking or drugs always. I finally totally walked away and will never look back thank you to God!!!

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus shouldn't have drank then. Very bad example.

@saxmanjpr5092

2 жыл бұрын

There are consequences to eating at McDonals after church too, but no one ever ants to address that issue. Quit picking and choosing.

@glendajohnson4558

Жыл бұрын

Kl

Let me tell you a testimony. My brother was addicted to alcohol. He went to a spaghetti dinner at hi local church. At the head of the table he saw that the spiritual leader, priest, was drinking wine and had two empty bottles next to him. My brother though this was cool a Priest drinking alcohol like he does. So my brother had a few glasses and then drive home. So not only did this Priest look cool , provide alcohol for a alcoholic, but allowed my brother to drive home impaired. Praise God after telling my brother it is a sin and showed in the Word of God that not being sober is doing the direct opposite of what God says to do, Jesus delivered him.

I haven’t drank alcohol since I’ve been born again,which is about 35 years. God took the desire away because I am a new creation in Christ Jesus, old things have passed away behold all things are new in my life. 2 Corinthians 5:17.

My grandparents shared a glass of wine with there dinner meal. And never had a problem. Same with my Dad. Also, every now and then I'm invited to dinner with some Jewish friends who have come to Christ who serve wine with there meal's, never seen any of them have more than one glass. I don't see any problem with that. But yes I do agree there is a problem with those who have a problem with drinking to get drunk.

@saxmanjpr5092

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus drank wine and when people ran out of it, Jesus MADE MORE!! Now why is that if drinking in itself is a sin?! :)

I recently walked away from a "church" where drinking, gambling and homosexuality became an ok behavior amongst the leadership.

I love this is being brought forward. I saw so much destruction and have lived a horrible life from the influence of alcohol. I live with the drowning of Gods love over my life. It is what brings real joy to life. Daystar has been a savior to many of life’s burdens that I have overcome. Thank you Joni and family. Know that I miss Marcus and pray for you all.

Bless you Pastor Jeff for being what God calls you to be as teacher and a leader 🙏🙏🙏

The day I was born again I lost all desire for alcohol, stopped smoking, threw all my worldly music out, if you have to be told don't do this or that ect then I doubt you are born again.

The same applies to over indulging in food I’m guessing, which the church never wants to talk about. Moderation is important when speaking of eating and drinking and not hurting those around you with your freedoms.

@cindyreeves5048

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. It’s about healthy. Health decisions. Jesus turned water into wine. ??? Why?????????????????????????? But, I’m pretty certain Jesus didn’t get hammered.

@peruricanp

2 жыл бұрын

Does food have the potential to get you drunk? 🤔 that’s the difference

@KJ-lb4tj

2 жыл бұрын

@@peruricanp you're right, it doesn't get you drunk for a few hours, but over eating, greed, is listed as a sin which leads to obesity. Similar to drinking too much leading to drunkenness and alcoholism. Obesity is one of the worst killers and disablers of healthy bodies for your whole life. It certainly isn't looking after your body as a temple of the holy spirit.

@sharonekiongo9961

2 жыл бұрын

@@peruricanp Well I think it's not very smart to diminish the importance of eating disorders. We could simply just agree on the fact that drunkenness is a problem and a SIN but so are bad relations with food. (English not perfect)

@MrGHunter77

2 жыл бұрын

I agree. If we are going to talk about moderation and sobriety, we need to put all out there and not just pick and choose. Just because someone has an occasional drink, it does not mean they are using it as a coping mechanism that will destroy their life. The same way someone has a glass of wine or beer to unwind is no different that someone that binges with food, TV.

Thank you Daystar for keeping the download option 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 Enjoying every show... May the almighty God bless and use daystar ❤️❤️❤️❤️

I love Racheal Lamb's outlook as a young women from a younger generation, she stands firm for truth! The appearance of evil is a BIG factor!

Just because you have been saved which I have been a believer since a young age and grew up in the church and my mom was a teacher at the Lutheran school. I always believed and now have attended Belmont church in Nashville TN. I volunteer and work with the media department, either camera or sound in the studio for webcast. Have played drums in worship teams. Over 20 years at this church. I got in the addiction as my dad who I never really knew and my moms dad both have the genes to fall into it. I always had very bad anxiety started in my childhood. My point, hearing story’s about as soon as you got saved all of a sudden you didn’t want to drink. I believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior but I have problems. I like this program but I think you need to consider people who really have a addiction and believe. People in my church know that I struggle with this so being real like Jesus Christ my opinion the way to be more helpful for those who have a illness.

@MattMendians

2 жыл бұрын

@Ilionshebnne Mro ok

@MattMendians

2 жыл бұрын

That’s funny there’s content on this channel!

Alcohol is an open door that leads to alcoholism. I've never been drunk in my 48 years and I still enjoy a glass a of wine. It absolutely does not need to lead to anything, you need to know yourself and know your level of self control Just as having a cake sometimes with lots of sugar in it has not led me to being overweight or being addicted to sugar.

@christopherayettey4390

Жыл бұрын

How do you enjoy alcohol if you dont get drunk... Because it doesn't even taste nice lol

@Omatimestwo

Жыл бұрын

@@christopherayettey4390 A lot of drinks are really yummy. Rum is my favorite alcohol.

I attended a Assembly of God Church and didn’t drink because God convicted me not to while raising my kids and being a mom. Now 25 years later my husband & I enjoy a few drinks together especially when it’s nice out and we sit on our deck and relax. We don’t make any dumb decisions or actions.

These KZread clips are really a great evolution of daystar

Much love for you Joni and Daystar Family.

Deuteronomy 14:26- When you arrive , you may use the money to buy any kind of food you want- cattle, sheep, goats, wine or other alcoholic drink. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. Mark 14:25- I tell you the truth, I will not drink wine again until the day I drink it new in the Kingdom of God. The emphasis on this verse is on AGAIN, meaning that he had done so before. On verse 23 it says that he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. If drinking alcohol was a sin then why did God in flesh did so? binging on the other hand is the problem. Overeating(gluttony) and drunkenness are punishable by the same standards, so when you binge on that pizza in the eyes of the LORD you are no better than a drunkard. And going back to Paul on Romans 14 after he advises us not to eat or drink what might cause another to stumble, he goes on in verse 22 and says: "You may believe there's nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don't feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right. Let us be careful not to be so overly self righteous to the point where we think we better than God, let's read the scriptures with the revelation of the Holy Ghost instead of our experience or limited wisdom. Personally I do not drink alcohol anymore because God told me so and it is for a particular purpose. And I'm no better than the other believer who does drink because the same God has told them it's ok to do so. The question I want you to ask yourself if you are not drinking is: Who/What is the motivation behind that decision? Is it pride, trauma, self righteousness, religious spirit or God? and if you do drink ask yourself the same question. In all we do,; let God be glorified.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

What did God sound like when He told you so?

Many things exist, that in and of themselves are not bad at all. it's how extreme our use of them becomes. Because I didn't grow up with alcohol in our house, I rarely drank, yet never felt anything wrong with an occasional "fruity' style drink that tasted good. But because we are instructed to avoid all appearance of evil, Christians should be careful of this.

@timdavis6088

2 жыл бұрын

But there lies the fault of definitions. The evil is not in drinking alcohol. The evil is knowingly and repeatedly getting drunk. Drunkenness is the sin. Not the alcohol.

@MightyWomanOfGod9050

2 жыл бұрын

@@timdavis6088 Yes, amen. And like you said above, to cause someone to stumble, is intentional.

@kathleenwilliams9158

2 жыл бұрын

😊😊

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

So Jesus appeared sinful by drinking alcohol?

Please pray for my friend Rav. She's a warrior for God and has been a little lost. Please all prayer warriors pray for Rav. Thank you so much 💓

just a thought here....if you have a moctail at a resturaunt....other people observing you wont know its not alcoholic. So especially as a pastor...that could still stumble ppl

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Or they in purity would just think it's a nicely decorated fruity drink. Not everyone thinks so negatively or so distrustingly and suspiciously every time they see a person drinking a coldcdrink out of a glass. So pastors should only be seen drinking dowdy cups of tea, something even Jesus didn't do! He was accused of being a winebibber too, probably by similar people who you think are observing pastors in restaurants. Why be intimidated by people's evil judgement?

@karlawenger5033

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 just so you know...i have no problem with christians drinking alcohol, in moderation. I was only responding to how this vid was presenting it. But i do think pastors need to be above reproach. Sorry you took offense to my response.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@karlawenger5033 I see your point, but not sure if I believe in "elevating" church leaders too much. That's why people get so disappointed when they fall. They may have high expectations put upon them, but they are ax human and as sinful as anyone else. There should not only be "one man" allocated into a ministry position according to the New Testament it is an "all body" ministry involving pastors, deacons, bishops, evangelists, teachers, apostles, prophets and so forth. Today churches expect one man, the "pastor," to do it all, or most of it. That is not Biblical structurecand often why pastors are put on pedestals and so "highly esteemed," when they should be just serving alongside their brothers and sisters. A teacher is a gift but it is not the same office as a pastor, but often today the two are conflated, with the "pastor" combining Bible teaching with visitation of the sick etc., when these are in fact two distinct offices for two men. That way there is more support and collective responsibility and less chance of "falling."

@karlawenger5033

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 ya, i agree about elwvating pastors. You & I agree more than you know.

ENA REYNOLDS I saw you on that program and was proud of you both! I love Marcus and Jonie! I watch it everyday! I miss Marcus so much!

I am grateful I turned my life over and asked God to help take away the obsession. It not only changed my life but help other find the way. As far as 12 step programs and Celebrate Recovery they are great catalysts to find God and use his wisdom. Alcoholism is cunning baffling and powerful to those who can't find the strength or lie to themselves and hurt loved ones in the process; as told in one of the examples "To Thine own self be true. "🙏 for the broken souls and suffering families to find God and peace and truth.

Yes Rachel you are so right! Good to see young people be so wise and learn this sooner than later. 🙏🙏🙏

The bottom line, is that the scriptures don't talk against drinking wine or hard drink. It talks against drunkenness. This conversation is based on opinions.

@kaylaa2466

2 жыл бұрын

THIS. I think it boils down to knowing if you can just have one drink. I don’t drink at all as I used to party a couple years ago & I know how I felt. I know where I was. I don’t want that in my body at all. Or in my spirit

@barbaralucas7890

2 жыл бұрын

@@kaylaa2466 I understand what you're saying, but the point is that, the scriptures still talk against drunkenness, not drinking. That would contradict what Jesus did by turning water into wine.

@kaylaa2466

2 жыл бұрын

@@barbaralucas7890 Right. That’s always confused me. Water into wine, why? Aren’t we supposed to avoid mind altering things? Wine relaxes. It’s all still confusing the more I dig into my faith. I still don’t drink simply because I know it’s not just one drink & I’m happy being sober because I know when I wasn’t sober I wasn’t happy. Kind of like a kindest/memory thing for me.

A very good show. Thanks for having it. I wish everyone could hear this. I came from an alcoholic family and it was very harmful. Grand dad died at 50 my father died at 36

It's been many years I have not seen your show, I enjoyed the conversation. It is a very important subject and one many people should hear. As a born again believer it is important to stay away from alcohol. Especially strong 🍸 drinks. We have a greater force to keep us and comfort us, Holy Spirit.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Why did Jesus not stay away from alcohol then if it is so bad for "born again believer"? Or maybe He wasn't a "born again believer" if He lived as a Jew before Christianity made its rules... or does His perfect example mran nothing? You shouldn't use a symbol of alcohol (wine in "Communion") in your churches if it is considered to be such a sinful thing. You can't have it both ways. It's either sinful or not.

Thank you for talking about this subject!

Wine is a mockery, strong drinks are raging , any man that drinks there of is not wise. Proverbs 20.2.

@timdavis6088

2 жыл бұрын

That's not the correct interpretation. Otherwise, Jesus was not wise? Noah was not wise? NKJV - "1Wine is a mocker, Strong drink is a brawler, And whoever is led astray by it is not wise." So anyone who falls into drunkenness is unwise. Context is extremely important. We should question our interpretation of scripture when it clearly contradicts other parts of the Bible.

@lisajones9749

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!! The Word has already WARNED us to avoid wine and alcohol and told us that there are unforeseen consequences that come along with drinking! The answer is clear and the Word tells us!

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

"Wine gladdeneth the heart of man..." Proverbs.

I was also convicted by the Holy Spirit when I ordered a virgin drink while out, Holy Spirit said “how do you look any different than the person drinking the same drink with alcohol? They don’t know yours is a virgin drink.” Eyes are watching.

@jezusfreak1234

Жыл бұрын

In restaurants they started putting a black straw on alcoholic beverage and white straws in Virgin drinks

I think some big points that are big on this topic are in are in 1 Timothy 3:2-13. what is your influence to others around you when being a representation of a child of God. 1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me but not all things build up. every time I see drinking in the scriptures,it is based around a celebration,weddings etc.i believe this is one liberty that can be taken in moderation if you do partake. it gives others the understanding that you are not bound by legalism but also shows your character and strength as a Christian that alcohol does not define who you are. it is not apart of our everyday life as to lean on this comforter (wine/alcohol) but as as Christians we fill ourselves daily with the spirit which is our true comforter which we can find in Ephesians 5:18 I'm excited that these topics are brought up in the church and addressed.to many of us stray away from the hard topics and then wonder why we have to counsel or help someone later who stumbled on it later

Several great principles brought out in this conversation. For example, "What you believe affects your bloodline" (April S.). Isn't that what the Bible means when it says sin goes to the fourth generation and blessing to 1000? Also, I love the leadership pyramid illustration. It gets tight at the top. Not that we don't get freer the more we pursue Christ but the responsibilities of a leader require a different level of accountability. John Paul Jackson said that a leader has a short leash. He said the more you walk in your vision, the less rope you get. Part of that is simply because of the necessity for intense focus. Lastly, what a great testimony that everyone at the table was raised with this healthy perspective and it has worked.

Much respect for speaking on this, blessings 💗🙏🙌

@jerrysingho1275

2 жыл бұрын

Better to speak on prosperity gospel and how some pastors talked yo you in making them rich

Thank you for airing this ❣️ Blessings ✝️💝🙌

@rosettaclark8288

2 жыл бұрын

The Bible speaks about the drunkard that reals walking down the street. I didn't look up the scriptures here but I definitely have seen scriptures that indicate drinking is sinful. There are too many alcoholics and often they pass the gene down to their children. They often get a divorce and turn into Doctor Jeckyl and Hide.

@rosettaclark8288

2 жыл бұрын

Who has just one drink? Alcohol is a depressant. It kills brain cells and absolutely destroyed families. I knew if a neighbor who had given birth. Her husband didn't show up to take her home from the hospital because he was out drinking. Alcoholism starts with one drink. Oh isn't it cool to join the crowd and pickle your brain and lead your family to poverty.

He said the Pentecostal movement started in the early 1900s it actually started on the day of Pentecost

@MightyWomanOfGod9050

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!!

@oliviadiaz8122

2 жыл бұрын

The Day of Pentecost was the birth of the church. Jesus had told them to wait on the promised Holy Spirit who would give them power.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Pentecost started LONG before the incident you are referring to in the book of Acts. Pentecost was NOT a beginning, but a FULFILMENT of prophecy "when the Day of Pentecost (Yom Shavuot) had FULLY COME." The holy day or "moed" ("Appointed Time") of "Pentecost" (named later in Greek) was ALREADY an annual Feast Day of "Shavuot" or the "Feast of Weeks" ("shavua = "week" / "shavuot" = plural "weeks" from the Hebrew root word "sheva" meaning "seven") kept by the Jews and Jesus (Yeshua) counting 7 weeks or 49 days after Passover until the 50th day which was Pentecost "FULLY COME" or "counted down" from Passover. It was not a NEW holiday, but an existing one. However, on this existing holy day or "moed" Appointed Time/Feast the Holy Spirit fell. So the Jews were "Pentecostal" for centuries, long before the "birthday of the Church"! 🙃

@oliviadiaz8122

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 All the appointed feasts the Israelites kept pointed to the time when the promised Messiah would be born. Jesus fulfilled them all. The day of Pentecost was no exception.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@oliviadiaz8122 yes, but "fulfil" does not mean "cancel" according to any dictionary.

The ironic thing is that as thorough as this conversation is, the controversy will live on in the church. 😟

@etgrider77

2 жыл бұрын

Because the conversation is always biased.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

There is no controversy in the Bible about it, just from men's opinons. Jesus drank. Full stop.

@lindac2554

2 жыл бұрын

It was Not a thorough discussion of the topic at all It was biased

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@lindac2554 In other words it did not express your point of view enough, or otherwise you would have approved it. If it was biased the other way would you similarly complain that it was "biased"? 🙃 !

Regardless of whether the Bible uses the exact words of "it's a sin", we as children of God should be striving to be a living example of our heavenly Father! With over 600 scriptures against drinking "strong" drink, I would be willing to say that He doesn't want us to drink alcohol. That's His character and I pray and strive every day to be more like HIM! I believe all Christians should be following His example. In addition, when you drink alcohol and become inebriated, you are opening a door into the spirit world where demons can come in and torment.

@MTknitter22

2 жыл бұрын

yes Larry & Debbie Taylor its sad that so many excuses made because some Christians really just want that occasional drink of alcohol. In my very Baptist TX town it is like that I am with Joni on this.

@stevenwitte769

2 жыл бұрын

As much as we want to strive to be like him... We will never be like him as long as we're in this flesh. God bless none of us will ever come close to being like Jesus

@archstanton7269

2 жыл бұрын

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. The 600 scriptures you're probably referring to are for Levites and people consecrated to God for a specific purpose. Israelites paid a tithe on their fermented drinks... and yes, they drank them. I'm being like Jesus when I drink wine, and when he offers me a cup in His kingdom, I'll be sure and ask Him if I can drink yours for you.

@deandalley3607

2 жыл бұрын

So please tell me why Jesus' first miracle was turning water to wine, as yes it was alcoholic!

Wow! Loved this! Everyone was well spoken and transparent and most importantly- Christ like. So so awesome! Loved the part when Joni shared about that she had a guest (I dont remember the name? This moment) that said something like- Why would I try so hard to find a scripture about something that would only feed my flesh. This was in reference to people trying to hard core validate how the bible isn't against drinking itself. Emphasis on the hard core. What a great program tonight! Thanks for finding them Jonathan 👍😊

Excellent, Joni! Yours is the best commentary of all

This seems like quite an American conversation. The rest of Europe has a very different cultural attitude to alcohol.

@gaynorkelly9413

2 жыл бұрын

Because Americans (generalizing) ARE very judgmental....many don't believe you can be a Christian if you are a Democrat!!!

I think all Christian’s should read Dave wilkerson’s “Sipping Saints”….he had some very insightful and powerful thoughts on this topic.

@carolbierman2910

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the reference

@freshstart4423

2 жыл бұрын

Proverbs 31, tells us to avoid anything that effects memory, except you are preparing to die.

@jaake58koinz45

2 жыл бұрын

Yes! I had Pastor David Wilkerson's book "sipping saints" very informative and truthful

@toulon365

2 жыл бұрын

Thank You. I will do just that.

@PhotographyByDerek

2 жыл бұрын

@@freshstart4423 and this only happens when one over indulges. That can also apply to certain perfectly legal drugs.

I have a drink once in a while. I have been saved since 2014. God is changing me everyday. Through the HOLY Spirit. I am so grateful for his plan. I am from a lineage of addiction of so many. And I am also the first generation to be a Christian.. I understand why people are in bondage. Addiction is real. But so is GOD.🙏

Rachel and Joni great comments, I totally agree with you. God bless 🙏🏼

I love how sister Joni. And her people dress. Very sweet way to show Jesus. We dress up for the world and when it comes to church. The church drop their standards. Just like the topic of drinking

When I got saved the lord dealt with me on smoking and after wrestling with the lord he kept telling me to lay my cigarettes on the alter he delivered me from smoking and when I got home that night the Holy Spirit lead me to pour the whisky that I had hid in the closet down the drain and when I done that God delivered me from drinking yes I believe a child of God should not drink it ruins our testimony

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

What did He sound like when He was telling you this?

@saxmanjpr5092

2 жыл бұрын

Really? So why did Jesus turn the water into wine if one can not enjoy an OCCASIONAL drink?

Very encouraging. I feel so alone fighting that generational curse in my family and watching my daughters choose the party Avenue and one of them has 3 children watching her. I’m trusting my savior to not only save them from this generational curse but give them the desire to have more of Jesus

@psilva7684

2 жыл бұрын

What do you mean ? No more curse since Christ defeated the grave . Your curse is not obeying god . You choose the curses and blessing

@debbieduguid2070

2 жыл бұрын

@@psilva7684 Generational curses are curses that flow down from one generation to the next. Salvation does not break off generational curses from us personally, nor off our family. We break them off of our lives once we receive the revelation of it but that requires renouncing those things that come from our family lineage and then we declare the Word of God over our children and their children. Just because we break curses off of our lives does not mean those curses are going to be broken off of our children's lives. Every person must make a conscience decision to turn from those things.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@psilva7684 The Passover blessings include the Hebrew words "blessed is the fruit of the vine," from where Gentile Christians get their "Communion" ritual from. If wine is a curse it should be oblitetated from "Communion," end of. If choosing a curse is drinking wine like Jesus did He should face the local Church Council for leading God's people astray. Absolutely terrible! 🙃

@saxmanjpr5092

2 жыл бұрын

@@psilva7684 BULL! Generations curses DO EXIST! I am living proof of them because I became a very angry BABY after my mom and sister were tragically killed, leaving my Dad to be a single Father. Jesus told me in a prophecy that "he would EVENTUALLY remove what had been plaguing me for so long," BUT he could not tell me WHEN he would do this because if took the death of my Dad to do so as a few months after he died, I began to feel the anger I had for 42 years (the "40 years in the wilderness") begin to very slowly drain out of me when I woke up from a dream I had of my Grandmother telling me in the dream who my wife will be one day as this occurred ON the 2nd anniversary of her death. And at times, I DO feel that anger return but I now know that this is only Satan yapping his mouth in telling me lies and I constantly have to tell him to "shut up because I have overcome that issue and I AM moving on!" And BELEIVE ME! I AM obeying God everyday by resisting the temptation to fornicate because I know that ONE DAY, even if it takes another 20 years, that God has a WIFE that he is preparing for me and I just have to be patient because "things happen in HIS TIMING, not mine." Obeying God IS NOT EASY!

thank you for this show

It’s just sad when people from the body of Christ are still drunks or addicts . We need to keep them in prayer but let them know it is not right, don’t be lukewarm my brothers n sisters

I was delivered from alcohol but have been drinking alcohol. Lord help me!!

@shakarastewart6091

2 жыл бұрын

You can do it. Put it away. Lay aside every sin and weight that easily beset you.

My Husband is a Pastor. Alcohol causes more harm than good. We have seen I destroy families and marriages, so we choose to abstain. Also, it can hurt your testimony.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus shouldn't have drank it then. He's leading a terribly sinful example, according to Church doctrine and opinon on the matter.

@ashlieleavelle

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 Jesus knew when to stop. He was sinless and never got drunk . I didn't say it was a sin. I said we have seen it cause much harm and we choose to abstain. Jesus was perfect. People aren't.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@ashlieleavelle I agree with you, but I have often found "abstainers" in churches pushing their agenda or abstenance on others who drink rarely or sensibly without any issue, just because they have a moral campaign about it. I don't think abstaining will stop alcoholism or the destruction to marriages and families that you cite any more than giving all my money to the poor would stop all the poverty in the world, as Jesus said, " The poor you will always have with you." In a sense it is like that with alcoholism too. I don't think we as Christians should fear alcohol or dodge it for moral reasons if it is not a sin to use it properly. I think it would be more effective in society for people to see how God's people do responsibly handle alcohol rather than being unable or afraid to touch a drop. That's what Jesus did, despite His divinity and perfection. He would not have drank alcohol Himself if He thought it would make alcoholism worse in the world or cause someone He knew to have a relapse of addiction. He just set the best example. That is my approach, although I know many boast that no alcohol has ever passed their lips. Will the teetotallers refuse the wine offered by Jesus in heaven at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb that He promised at His last Passover meal or will they hope it is non-alcoholic too?

Just to say or add, I didn’t have an underlying problem, I barely drank at the time and the Holy Spirit said “Give up That Last Drink”. I did eventually become a leader and the bible I think speaks very clearly to leaders in particular about drink, read the last chapter of proverbs for instance. Also pilots don’t drink on duty do they, well I believe as spirit filled Christian’s we’re always on duty 24/7. When I was still an atheist I heard about a Catholic priest who drank and smoked and the person telling me laughed and said “he’s just like us”. Although an atheist I just knew he should be different, not like everyone else.

My entire life has been negatively from alcohol.... I’m totally anti becoz of it and what it did to my dad and hubby.

“Temperance is, unfortunately, one of those words that has changed its meaning. It now usually means teetotalism. But in the days when the second Cardinal virtue was christened 'Temperance', it meant nothing of the sort. Temperance referred not specially to drink, but to all pleasures; and it meant not abstaining, but going the right length and no further. It is a mistake to think that Christians ought all to be teetotallers; ... Of course it may be the duty of a particular Christian, or of any Christian, at a particular time, to abstain from strong drink, either because he is the sort of man who cannot drink at all without drinking too much, or because he wants to give the money to the poor, or because he is with people who are inclined to drunkenness and must not encourage them by drinking himself. But the whole point is that he is abstaining, for a good reason, from something which he does not condemn and which he likes to see other people enjoying. One of the marks of a certain type of bad man is that he cannot give up a thing himself without wanting everyone else to give it up. That is not the Christian way. An individual Christian may see fit to give up all sorts of things for special reasons -- marriage or meat, or beer, or the cinema; but the moment he starts saying the things are bad in themselves, or looking down his nose at other people who do use them, he has taken the wrong turning.” -C. S. Lewis

@Jsmelser0321

2 жыл бұрын

@Ilionshebnne Mro where can I find it?

@lindac2554

2 жыл бұрын

You just hit the nail on the head! It was a biased discussion I really liked Troy Blacks breakdown on the same subject - alcohol You can find it on Troy Black sermons

Praise the Lord beloved, me in person I've grown up around pipo drinking even knowing God but I came to realize that they have not given in to the Holy Spirit wholly coz once you permit Him in, there's absolutely no addiction that can stand coz the Bible says He satisfies the longing soul so i taught my self to weigh my desire and God so if I can't leave that for Christ sake then it's an area of need of prayer coz paul said let that one who doesn't eat judge the one who does and the one who does for the sake of another's faith let him do so in secret to help another individual who will think it's ok to drink yet they are new converts so anything that takes us out of our mind if not the Holy Spirit it's an abominable to us

Great topic!!!!! addiction alcohol and prescription drugs people need to be educated and helped and know that The Lord Jesus will never leave you !!!!! please talk about this so many souls out there hurting

Thanks for addressing this ❤️

Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. And we are to take care of our bodies.

@timewilltell5476

2 жыл бұрын

Correct. Don't get drunk! Remember Scripture says a little wine is good for the stomach.!

and just to add to previous comment, i felt convicted whenever I sip any alcoholic drink. Holy Spirit always reminds me how he needs me ready to be His mouth, hands and feet. Alcohol has a mind altering affect and what I was made to understand, the wine Jesus entertained with was made different from the wine today and with a different intention. I need more of this teaching to be at the alter. Even I the church I attend ,the leaders post on FB a dinner represented with a bottle of their favorite wine. So disturbed

The word “alcohol” is said to come from the arabic term “Al-khul” which means “BODY-EATING SPIRIT” , also, is the origin of the term” ghoul. In alchemy, alcohol is used to extract the soul essence of an entity. Hence its’ use in extracting essences for essential oils, and the sterilization of medical instruments. By consuming alcohol into the body, it in effect extracts the very essence of the soul, allowing the body to be more susceptible to neighboring entities most of which are of low frequencies. why do you think we call certain alcoholic beverages “SPIRITS”?

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

It doesn't mean that in Hebrew which is related to Arabic as a Semitic language. Hebrew is the language that most of the references to alcohol in the Bible was originally written in.

I appreciate this I used to drink but was inspired by people’s sobriety stories that I’ve stopped

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

I'm the opposite. I am put off by people's sobriety. Jesus never practised it, so why should we?

Great topic…so helpful!

My wife, as a new believer, greatly admired her Sunday School teacher. She walked into a store one day, looked over at an outdoor beer garden and saw a drunken woman "all over" a man (not her husband). It was her Sunday School teacher. Broken hearted and confused, she left the church, God and her own faith that day. She figured all "Christians" were "fake" and no one lived what they preached. She went into a self destructive mode for several years until returning to The Lord. Teacher NEVER knew she was seen nor of how she greatly affected another life. Stay away from church leadership and keep your mouth shut if your heart is divided! Otherwise you increase the ranks of hypocrisy and become an agent of disguise.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

You shouldn't look up to people, Sunday school teachers or not. That's venerating people.

@chriswhite3332

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 We are called to be an example. To live as "salt" and "light". To "walk your talk". The Apostle Paul said, "follow me as I follow Christ". Correct, we should never "venerate" people. However, people watch us and expect something different out of us if we profess and preach Christ. We have a RESPONSIBILITY not to live in hypocrisy. "Without holiness no one will see God". Our life and the way we live it affect many others around us, even those whom we never see.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@chriswhite3332 I would respect a God-fearing Christian more for being open and honest about having a sensible drink on occasion when appropriate than the self-righteous feel of compulsory teetotallism which is not even required or commanded by God or Jesus, or those who pretend not to drink and then do it in secret. People will respect moderation over teetotallism I believe, which was the example of Jesus. To "follow Christ" as you quote, and not to forbid wine.

@chriswhite3332

2 жыл бұрын

@@scented-leafpelargonium3366 There is no "sensible drink" as you assert if it causes someone else to stumble. Paul refused to even eat meat in the presence of a man if it caused him to stumble. As I previously stated, she was a "new believer", a babe in Christ. And seeing a drunken Sunday School teacher physically touching, caressing and sitting on another man's lap other than her husband had a very negative affect upon her, as it would with most new converts. True, having a "drink" is not a sin, but if your brother is offended by it, or doesn't understand why or what you are doing, perhaps we ought to consider our brother/sister before we imbibe. Maybe we ought to think about how it might affect them rather than excusing irresponsible behavior by refusing to be a "self righteous" prude. Go ahead and have your drinks, I'll abstain, as both of us walk in love and influence others to truely REPENT and follow Jesus as Lord and Savior.

@scented-leafpelargonium3366

2 жыл бұрын

@@chriswhite3332 then Christians shouldn't eat "Easter Eggs" and other pagan things tgat could cause pagan elements to make a young Christian stumble who sees all the razzamatazz of Christ-Mass and pagan decoration of Christian sanctuaries. It is not only alcohol that may make someone stumble, and often the use of it would not make most people stumble at all. These are all hypotheticals, but I see much more stumbling going on than just alcohol.

Totally agree with this Topic, I'm glad you guys talked about this, God bless you all.

Thank you so much for talking about drinking alcohol! It has taken the church by storm. The negative impacts from drinking are so bad need prayers of deliverance and Celebrate Recovery meetings every week. We have just experienced two of God’s mighty warriors taken out of worldwide ministry in part, due to the effects of alcohol. It is time to take address this issue head on and see that pastors and the church body are set free from alcohol and promptly returned to the battlefield. We need all the saints at work in the Kingdom! Thanks for not being legalistic about the subject.

1 Tim 5:23 Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses. I understand the care and caution we need to be sober minded, but to say drinking is wrong is not biblical. We need to be sober minded but the hypocrisy in the church of sin is so ridiculous. It pushes people away because we say one thing yet do another. We need to talk about caution but we also need to be real. Alot of these same pastors that preach this are also defiling their congregations with sexual sin or money fraud. But we don't talk about those things at all. And talking about "what am I best at?" None of us are best at anything. We are all unholy and not even worthy. This reaching for perfection is just not what Christ is about. Run the race but be humble and honest about your journey because the only good in us is God.

Amen amen amen…thank you, Holy Father!

I was brought up in a Pentecostal church where it was taught it is wrong to drink so I never. I live my life now with the mind set that if they are not doing it in heaven then I am not doing it here.

Great conversation ...if I may make a suggestion it would be nice to include a leader and a layman or woman who had a life of addiction but was delivered to make it more real for others to relate 🕊

@donaboyle5404

2 жыл бұрын

In AA they say 'God Of Your Understading' can choose anything or anyone to pray to, but the 1st 100 members were Christian but wanted other religious to be able to join

@freshstart4423

2 жыл бұрын

Proverbs 31 tells you to avoid anything that effects memory, except you are preparing to die

I also need to share i sat next to a paster in AA and it opened up my eyes to relizing we are all human and anyone can suffer from this🙏

@leellenerturk6103

Жыл бұрын

He was such a kind person torwards me as i tried to share my hope and experience when a person cut me off as i spoke! The pastor whispered it’s okay🙏

I think this topic is very necessary because it can be controversial and can cause division in the body of Christ. I just wish that somebody in the crowd had a different view so that we could hear both sides because I believe majority of the people on this table talk did not drink . It would’ve been more interesting if there was someone that actually believed the opposite of what they’re saying.

I believe everyone's area of weakness will be different. Drinking might be an issue for some where as others it's lying or porn or gluttony etc... All these things mentioned were created by God for mankind's enjoyment but can become corrupted. That's where the blood of Jesus continues to cleanse us, knowing our weakness, having been tempted in ALL things and becoming our sin to redeem us in our walk as we are being perfected forever those who are being sanctified... A work in process.

Powerful topic. Hits home.

The first time I got drunk was when I was 12 years old. And I drank a lot but when I turned 16-21 I was a full blown alcoholic. Some days I would skip school and be blacked out drunk by 10am and I would go joy riding around on a Tuesday when I should have been at school. My 21 birthday I drove me and my friends 2hrs home from a party at 3am completely blacked out drunk and by the grace of God I woke up in my bed totally fine. I got saved radically when I was 21 and totally turned away from sin. I did stop drinking for a few months but I did pick it back up again, but I knew being drunk was a sin so I had more self control and when I drank I would only have a couple drinks and usually wouldn’t get to buzzed. But for years I used alcohol as a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Because it was easier to have a couple beers after a stressful day then try to get into prayer and have intimacy with God. But my relationship with God never was very deep. I was very lukewarm. But after a couple years of this I ended getting pretty drunk one night and I woke up that next day and said I’m done with alcohol. And God has given me the grace to be completely sober from it and all drugs. And my walk with God has totally flourished. I highly suggest to any Christian who drinks as a remedy for your problems, give it up and let God be your source of joy and peace and satisfaction, you won’t be sorry.

Drunkenness is a sin not having a beer or a glass of wine with dinner

When you already put one step in to the room, you’re inside…and the next time you know it, you’re indulging along with those enjoying the party. And when you are into a fun situation that goes on and on, you only have two options…keep going through it or stop especially when it becomes addictive. My advice is, get out from there immediately! Everything grows from the root so, uproot it before it get’s full grown.

I went to a church were the Leader was busted, shamed and disgraced internationally because of alcohol - lost everything

SO GOOD!!!

No one wakes up in the morning thinking I’m gonna add something positive to my life and get into more alcohol

Thank you Joni for your honesty 🙏🙏yes it does dull our thinking to numb the pain🥲i was brought up drinking was normal and okay? I always felt it was wrong but question my thoughts because of t was all around me! And my Dad made us drink and scared us My Brother and i had to drink because we were afraid of being beat

We are told to drink in moderation. But as humans, we dont do anything in moderation. And there is a saying in the 12 step. One is too many and two is not enough. Once someone starts, its hard to stop. So why start in the first place? I had to learn that the hard way. I am going to be 12 yrs sober August 24.

@timewilltell5476

2 жыл бұрын

Sorry you went to the extreme. Some have the mental makeup to keep things in balance. Congratulations!

@chadmay3656

2 жыл бұрын

@@timewilltell5476 I don't think I did. Look at the world and decide for yourself

Wise women!! Awesome!!

BLESSINGS ALWAYS SUCH A GOOD SINCERE DISCUSSION POWERFUL MESSAGE FOLLOW JESUS LET’ BE EXAMPLE’S OF HIM AND FOR HIM

Well said. Thank you Jesus Love ❤ you team of Living God

I love that we have Liberty! Go to scripture. Moderation!

I got clean before I got saved. I was clean and in recovery (NA) for 4 years. I was living “clean” for the most part. Was still living in sin mostly chained to lust. I realized I still wasn’t free even though I was “clean”. I met Jesus and He saved my soul. After a few months I realized the old identity of an addict didn’t fit anymore I was now born again, a child of god, a follower/disciple of Jesus, etc. way more than “once and addict always an addict” where I can never recover. Jesus has restored that part of me. so After much deliberation I made the decision that I could enjoy a beer or two when I please. I’m very cautious. The 4 years of reprogramming in NA still makes me Leary and sometimes a little guilty even and with the Holy Spirit’s discernment I’m making wise choices.

Paul told Timothy to abstain from the very appearance of evil

@timdavis6088

2 жыл бұрын

Paul also told Timothy to stop drinking only water and to drink a little wine for his infirmities. (I Tim 5:23)

@toenailtom654

2 жыл бұрын

@@timdavis6088 ok so... A little , one time, as medicine ??

@timdavis6088

2 жыл бұрын

@@toenailtom654 In those times water born illness were very common. People would mix wine in with their water to disinfect the water before drinking. So yes, wine was used for medicinal purposes. And still is...

@toenailtom654

2 жыл бұрын

So.... a little, one time, Not every day , when you get off work hanging at the bar with your buddies. Not every Football, Golf, Nascar, event

@timewilltell5476

2 жыл бұрын

That goes way beyond just drinking alcohol.