Change my mind: The best shimwork is at 11:50 pm when the game starts 9:00am the very next day.

Very good. I've been doing it similar to this for a while and am glad that there's a modern video out there with decent production value in it. I also add a step where I test the shimming at the end with only the motor and the electrical components with a watt meter. Comparing the amp draw of a motor with no load vs the motor with load after to not only hear for audibles but also check the draw efficiency.

Great video bro I like how you explained everything as you went along . Keep the videos coming. Thanks

Really usefull. As many other people said, really valuavle the fact that you mention the value of the tolerances you admit on the shimming

Best video you can find on the subject. Love all the detail. Amazing work sir.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

This is by far the best shimming video I’ve seen yet! Thank you taking the time to show this, it all makes perfect sense and seems fairly easy to do. Going to try it out on 2 builds I’m starting this week and next.

@paragonarmory

10 ай бұрын

Appreciate your feedback! Let us know how it goes. We'll be adding more tech videos soon.

@P3X169

8 ай бұрын

Maybe u should take a look at negative airsoft. Then u might understand whats necesery and whats just pointles work

@paragonarmory

8 ай бұрын

@@P3X169 no, but thank you

@P3X169

8 ай бұрын

​@@paragonarmorythere is actually no need to shim trough belevel gear and also ur not able to see in v2/3 boxes what actually happen when motor is installed, unless u drill a hole to gearbox

This is the most in-depth video I've ever seen on shimming. Well done!

@paragonarmory

Ай бұрын

Thank you! Just want to share the knowledge

beautifully explained! onwards to the several projects i have sat in my box of shame!

Great video! Love the up-to-date processes. Shimming the motor tower shimming add. Please keep it up! Subscribed and Notifications are on! -Brewer

This was excellent and raised some of the best points. Motor tower shimming is probably the biggest, and the play in bearings can make a impact on shimming when measuring by the mm. If each gear has 1mm of play due to bernings flexing slightly in addition to the 1mm you left there can be alot of room for error when the gear train is under load pulling the piston causing the gears to move sideways slightly. Making sure bushings and bearings are perfectly flush and secure is so crucial! Love the video, do more, I wanna see comparison/ ecample videos of all the Gucci parts u stock.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

I think I might go over compression stuff next!

Great tutorial man. Very High quality.

First video of many that i've watched that is actually good.. and go's further in to detail!! Might be the best tutorial out there at the moment. 🙏

@paragonarmory

10 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words! Going to do my best to provide the most detailed and up to date content there is. Stay tuned

@FalloutProto

5 ай бұрын

@@paragonarmory would love a video on heilical gears, not too different but still worth another video in my opinion.

this was the best shimming video . thank you so much for sharing your insight!

Great video, one of the best shimming video I've seen on KZread

@paragonarmory

11 ай бұрын

Thanks for the high praise 🙏

That Retro Arms Geaerbox shell looks really nice. Not like these cheap looking zinc die cast ones.

Very well explained video would love to see videos on compression parts like someone else has said, the fps parts seem good but their catalogue is deep and almost confusing 😂

Great video my dude! Even mild performance builds need to follow this as a bare minimum.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Shimming is a skill that is difficult to master. Hopefully this makes it easier for people

Nice to see airsoft shimming start to come out of the stone age. I've been measuring the gear gap for at least 10 years now. I tried to introduce this concept to several airsoft tech groups, but was frequently trolled. My suggestion is instead of wiggling the gear after adding shims just measure again. This will tell you if the play is within what you decide is acceptable. Which is vital when measuring all gaps as a gear might be resting on something for the first measurement. I will say I am disappointed that you didn't continue to measure gaps. I used to measure pinion to bevel to about .25mm. All gears to gear gaps I would measure to have a .20mm between them. All gears would be locked in to place at about .10mm. These measurements come from mass repair and work across 99% of gearboxes. Also very good suggestion to be more lenient with bearings vs bushings. Also that sound at the end isn't a burr it is two gears rubbing.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! You bring up a lot of good points. The cause of the sound was actually material that wasn’t machined off the step gear. You can kinda see the ring in the video. I replaced the step gear and problem was solved. I am still measuring gaps in a sense. As stated in the video, Siegetek gears are manufactured in a way where you can simply just add .1mm to the gear you just shimmed before. This is of course if you go in order from pinion, step, then sector. In the video I had a .1mm on the bottom of the pinion so if I wanted the gap to be .1mm above that, I would add the two values together. Also the reason why I still check pinion fitment by feel is because of potential errors in the depth readings. Because the micrometer isn’t 100% in line, I’m not getting a 100% accurate reading. I have to factor in this margin of error. Hopefully I explained that clearly

@BethelAirsoftWC

Жыл бұрын

@@paragonarmory I'm not saying skip the feel test. As you pointed out most gears are made to poor tolerances. A feel test can help you find a bad spot and you can follow up with measurement to determine what needs to be done. The secondary measurement is also important when you start measuring all gears down the line. As I previously said it will point out if the gear was resting on something for the first measurement. By measuring where all gears lay you can decide what is an acceptable tolerance between all gears. Not just bevel to pinion. The measurements I gave are from years of repair work across all brands. I found those to give extremely reliable results no matter what brand. Matter of fact for a while there I ran a repair shop where I gave 1 year warranties to my work because I was so confident in the system. Never had a warranty repair.

@quoitaz1

3 ай бұрын

When you say .20mm gear gaps, do you mean the offset of the neighbouring gear heights? How do you measure that?

Negative airsoft did a piece on his motor towers that he had made with different sizes so you don’t need the tape but it’s cheaper to tape and it means you don’t have to mess on if you decide to change the motor to another riff all you need to do is remove the tape and make the motor fit the next riff by adding new tape to fit the new riff gearbox.

Big love from Magnus Armouries -great video. ❤ One thing that could have possibly been mentioned would be if using bearings, make sure that the outer shim contacting the bearing should fit within the races, apposed to a larger diameter shim rubbing on the flange/outer race of the bearing. :)

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! That’s a good point, however with the wider diameter rocket shims you get better protection. The larger diameter acts as a shield for the bearings and prevents excessive loads on the bearings. This does come at a cost of more friction, though. No right or wrong answer and a matter of what’s more important to the individual.

@willsahraoui3758

Жыл бұрын

@@paragonarmory very true! I've always come from the standpoint of resistance is futile haha , and if using J-cage bearings there shouldn't be worry about lateral stress. But if you want a gearbox to be as reliable as possible for a customer , I completely understand your standpoint :)

Excellent Video. Loved all the points you made. Hoping you'll do a video on compression parts as well. Do you guys run cylinder heads with the front buffers in your builds? I hear they're not particularly great for retro arms gearboxes because of where they seat.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

I do run cylinder heads with pads on the front. The ones made by FPS Softair are designed properly and don’t cause gearbox cracking. Avoid the Maxx and Lonex cylinder heads as those are not designed properly and will break the gearbox. I can do a break down on the different compression parts I use.

This was a great video on how to shim a gearbox. A part 2 for this would be great! Like what would we do next with assembling the gearbox? You explain very well so other tech tips would be awesome.

@paragonarmory

11 ай бұрын

More videos will be coming soon!

@tompankilpi

5 ай бұрын

​@@paragonarmorybro when is soon for you its been half a year

More of paragon tech videos!!!!

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

More will be coming! Let me know if you want anything specific covered.

Love the SHIMMING!

Do what we do as mechanics when we set pinion to ring gear, paint the teeth and watch how the paint transfers. Proper gear mating can do wonders for longevity and torque transfer.

oh shit, Michael's got a channel!

This is really good 👌

Great video 🤘

Seriously? Almost threw away my aeg because I couldn’t get it to work after a new motor. Mighty glad I found this video. Gonna try this tomorrow

@paragonarmory

4 ай бұрын

Let us know how it goes!

@lonestaraerials6771

4 ай бұрын

@@paragonarmory will do. Had to order some deans connectors and shims. Once those come in I’ll make it happen

You are the best!!

thank you!

In the case of a mp5k you still need to use the lower for shimming as it doesn't use the cage. Mp5's hk33's and g3 's have it so the lower and pistol grip are all one piece. In fact thebonly reason the mp5 uses the v3 is it's flat on top and thats ehere the battery is housed. I knond of like that over the pdw stock cyma used because that buffertube can only house short batteries. Not sure if they can fit li ions but i only use thise in lmg's and I also couple it with A t238 motor.

Hey dude just finished shimming my gears. I had to replay parts over and over to fully understand the process and your video was extremely helpful. I actually went out and bought a caliper just for this and separated my shims because they came mixed and had no idea which one was which. Quick question, how do you get your gears to spin smoothly when you test with your finger? Is it because you have bearings? I have bushings so I’m kinda curious. When your pistol was put back together at the end, the gears were spinning really nice. Mine arp 2.0 didn’t do that but they still spun just not as good as yours lmk bro thanks

Get all of your AEG upgrade parts at www.paragonarmory.com !

Very good video! When next parts are coming up?

@DudaZachary

4 ай бұрын

Check out Negative Airsoft here on KZread. He's been building for 20+ years. Just a warning he's not kind, but that's why I love his video

Good video. Out of curiosity, was that a Retro arms Tappet plate? Also to echo other commentators, a video on compression parts would be great.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! It’s a Guarder tappet plate. Both are good though. I’ll start generating ideas for a compression parts video then.

@derdersoft

Жыл бұрын

@@paragonarmory Thanks for the reply. That's the second video I have seen recently where that particular brand of tappet plate is used. Must give them a go in one of my builds.

Great point on the motor shaft sleeve. How do you handle bearing that protrude out on the fire selector plate side? My plates ride over the bearings because the gearbox shell is not as thick as the bearings in that spot so the bearings stick out more than the stock bushings did. The selector plate can still slide over them but it cause some deflection on the plate getting it into the guide slots.

@paragonarmory

7 ай бұрын

The retro arms selection plate has a groove cut out for bearings. It’s our favorite selector plate because it moves so smoothly

very good video and well explained, what brand are those gearbox bearings? I liked them.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

Paragon Armory. Link is in the description

@vamp01968

Жыл бұрын

@@paragonarmory Hi, thanks for replying, do you have a video showing how you put the aluminum foil on the motor? Sorry to bother you so much, but I find a lot of sense to everything you explain, what is the aluminum foil tape you bought? the shell is reinforced, can it resist an m130 spring? what internals do you recommend for a dmr configuration? ufff....too many questions, but you convinced me of everything you say...

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

@@vamp01968 You would wrap the aluminum tape around the motor shaft to increase the diameter. I bought it from Amazon. The shell can handle any spring you want to put into it. The Retro Arms shells are very strong.

Yo man! Best video ever! And can i work for you? 🤣

Question, when your taping the motor tower wouldn’t you want to tape it according to the circumference of the pts grip since it contacts before the gearbox motor hole? For example I’m using everything the same except my motor is a warhead base which is near perfect to the pts hole which doesn’t move at all

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

You can shim to the grip too. Whichever is smaller. The PTS and the retro shell have the same diameter usually

The only thing standard about shimming is the shims. Each set of gears will have its own measurements and each gearbox will have its own measurements separately from others of the same make/model. Even a slight deviation will cause abnormal sound and operation and even gearbox jamming or straight up breaking parts. Good Luck to you all who try to be your own technician. ** If you feel the slightest bit that you might not do it right then don't even open your gear box!! ** 💸💸💸

Hey man , really nice video you made. Have some tips for uthought , it's always mesuring with the caliber before you shim shaking and playing with the screwdriver only it's not enough. In case you have different play on different spots of the gear should get several measurements and get the average of it , then shim with a caliber. And last , don't use bearings man , they are terrible for shiming when there so small , the inner ring outer ring tolerance and play it's different in every single one and is changing in a short period of time , I would go with bushings 100÷ to get the most out of it ! But still good job and thank you for doing such a great video! Peace! 😊

@paragonarmory

3 ай бұрын

Yes it is important to get multiple measurements. This is much less of a problem with CNC cut gears like Siegetek which are extremely consistent. I disagree about using bushings. Bearings are better in everyway if you're using high quality ones.

Can i use Bushing/Bearing combo on Brushless motor? Bevel bearing and spur , sector bushings?

Spot-on. Great video, time to drop $170 on a set of callipers 😅

Do we need to put any shims underneath the gear ?

stupid question time.... The taping to eliminate slack between pinion/bevel to reduce play: Is the spring on the motor removed and height is set by screw in handle, or is the spring kept below the taped section to still allow some up/down movement ? I see it with and w/o in the beginning and have not attempted to see for myself when setting the initial motor height. Thanks.

@paragonarmory

8 ай бұрын

You tape the shaft with spring removed first, then add the spring back for adjusting motor height.

You wouldnt happen to have an affiliate link to tools and such that would be helpful for a newbie like me to get would you? I can go buy these things but an affiliate link would put some money your way and make sure I get the right tools and such

This blows my mind that the technology today there’s not a better way to shim besides assembling and disassembling.

33:14 - ты когда всё смажешь маслом, средняя и секторная шестерни будут иметь сопротивление между собой из-за масленной плёнки! Зазор между шестернями должен быть 0.30. Под средней шестернёй зазор должен быть ОТ 0.15, а лучше 0.30. Масло попадёт между стенкой гирбокса и шестернё и будет лишнее сопротивление мотору

Hey can kind of shimming stuff do i need to shim a CYMA028U V3 gearbox? Thanks

Hmm cool and all but the pistol grip method only works on m4 how about mp5 and many more. The measuring part makes a big difference tho

Very very helpful 🎉!! Shimming needed an upgrade hahahha

@paragonarmory

10 ай бұрын

Glad it helped out!

What do you do if the hole of the motor grip ist smaller then the motor shaft hole in the gearbox? I mean I can't apply aluminum tape on the motor shaft to reduce the space, because it will not fit through the hole of the grip.

@dickdike92

2 ай бұрын

just dremmel some of the grip away. just be carefull. a little bit at a time 😅

I've rewatched the part at 28:17 so many times, but I don't understand it. By adding 0.2mm to the bottom of the step gear you are bringing its face closer to the face of the bevel (which has 0.1mm shim at the bottom), more precisely the face of the protrusion that's being used by the anti-reversal latch. What am I missing?

@richardmiklos

4 ай бұрын

Oh wait, your bevel gear looks much different. You don't have that protrusion for the anti-reversal latch, what the... :D

@paragonarmory

4 ай бұрын

You want the bevel teeth and step gear / spur gear teeth to have as much contact as possible. The shim measurements will depend on your particular setup. Get as close as you can before you hit the ARL notch wheel.

@richardmiklos

4 ай бұрын

@@paragonarmory Oh yeah, I had to use so many more shims than you. I have like 1.25 mm of shims on the top of the sector gear for example. My gearbox is built different :D It took some hours, but I think I'm done with it finally. My only concern is that the sector gear contacts only half of the piston rail. I saw pistons with half rails on the market so I guess I'll be fine. This with all the bearings... I don't know how long this weapon will last, haha. Either way, thank you for the detailed video.

🎉🎉🎉

Is your pinion to bevel gear play at 0.75mm alot or average? I'm ahimming mine and it's 0.12 to 0.10 😂

@paragonarmory

10 ай бұрын

Typically anywhere from .4x to .7x with this parts combo. Some combos may fit tighter than others to start.

I want to make my cyma m4 quiet

mils is not the same measurement as millimeters. mils are thousandths of an inch.

Laser calibrated eyeball :D :D :D

Just a nerdy fyi- a mil is 0.001" love the vid though

I've known for years, but no one mentions shimming the motor shafts or rotating the bevel gear to check for clearance. 12:25 You are the ONLY one to mention that this is an issue with "D Type" pinion gears. I always rotate my bevel for this reason. Can you elaborate a little more in detail, maybe even a new video, addressing this issue and the exact procedures on what to do and how you overcome this issue? All the motors I use are "D" because back in the OLD days on teching, "O Type" pinions would commonly slide down the shaft, causing even more issues. This, I have personally experienced several times, hence the reason for switching to D types exclusively. I have noticed in many builds that I do. This issue is actually what has cause me so many headaches. If possible, please make an in-depth video on this issue, I know I may not be the only one that has pulled their hairnout, and no matter where you ask, the only unanimous answer is "Check your shimming" without any explanation.

@paragonarmory

Жыл бұрын

O type pinion gears don’t slip anymore if the tolerances are correct. If they do, you can apply some retaining compound to keep them into place. When shimming MIM / D type pinions, we’re looking for any tooth that might have a tighter for than the others. That’s the tooth we need to measure from in order to prevent binding. It’s rather simple so don’t over think it.

@dannyboy8231995

7 ай бұрын

​@paragonarmory Hello again. Going back to this. Currently shimming my PDR-C. I noticed when I rotate the bevel gear, checking also with a depth gauge, there is about .40mm of up and down movement until I get to 3 consecutive spots where the play is about .10mm. Should I be shimming off the .10mm play area? This is a constant thing no matter what motor I switch to, no matter what bevel I use, no matter what pinion I have. Its weird and frustrating. I had another gun build that constantly made screeching noises until I shimmed out ALL the play. It sounded like a perfectly tuned gearbox. As soon as I let a .10mm play from bevel to pi ion on that gun again, it sounded horrible. I have the motor shimmed out in the cage already, I bought aluminum tape specifically for this.

focus...l

jesus... no wonder evike techs are trash. probably difficult to find someone with this type of patience and skill and get them to accept min. wage...lol

@paragonarmory

4 ай бұрын

Unfortunately there's no real teching standards in airsoft.