One of the best features of the WiiM (both pro and mini) is the equalizer function of the app. You can adjust the sound to your preference.

Kevin, you don't need to explain yourself... Audio geek my whole life, pro and home. Worked for Tweeter Etc for years. Crazy all the old school stereo stuff is coming back. I've been two channel all the way.

Hi Kevin, I appreciate the thoroughness of this review! 😎 I have 2 Wiim Pros & 1 Wiim Mini. All are set to fixed output, and only the Mini uses it's internal DAC before passing it's RCA output to a Bose 321 amplifier. Both Pros use an external DAC optically connected. I like how Wiim sends frequent updates to the units, and details each update on its web page. I stream Tidal & Amazon music through my Wiims and both MQA & Ultra HD music streams are processed flawlessly! 😉👍🏽

I have been thinking about one, This is great. Thanks' Kevin!!!

This overview was so incredibly helpful for me. Thank you so much for posting it.

@skylabsaudio

6 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

I wholeheartedly believe you! I can tell you're an upstanding guy!

Thanks Kevin. I currently stream through my phone and a Dragonfly portable DAC. I’m looking for a dedicated streamer and DAC so this video is very timely for me. Looking forward to the next one!

Thanks for these videos. Very educational .

An informative video! I never explored the multi-room aspect, so had no issues. But it's good to know the limitations.

Don’t forget that WiiM is newer to the market where Sonos has existed longer. Give WiiM the chance to prove themselves. They are bringing out updates almost weekly with improvements and features. 😊

You are real audio guy. Simple and to the point .I am sp glad you arent a gatekeeper.

Here's my issue with DACs and reviewers: there are sooo many of both, yet no one seems capable of telling us in a frank way if there is truly a noticeable difference between the scores of DACs out there. Beyond the SQ, there's build quality and reliability, which your channel talks about often because you deal with vintage gear. If you can bring a down-to-earth perspective to DAC reviews, you'd have something worth watching.

@hogwildmotorcycleadventures

8 ай бұрын

DAC's are like phono cartridges. They all bring a unique sound and signature. And like phono cartridges, what sounds good to one person may not be something another likes.

@christophergaus3996

8 ай бұрын

Better DACs usually sound much more 'holographic', music fills the room in a very real 3d way. Plus clarity gains. Built in DACs or just cheap ones tend to sound flatter, like a wall of sound from your speakers.

@hogwildmotorcycleadventures

8 ай бұрын

@@christophergaus3996, those built in DAC's are usually built with the schematic provided by the DAC chip manufacturer and there rules and contracts as to how much change an component manufacturer can do with those circuit designs. This is one of the reasons Schiit can produce a high quality low cost DAC in that they enter into terms with the DAC manufacturer where they are able to engineer their own circuit design. The second reason integrated DACS tend to suffer is the quality of the passives used to implement the circuit. Many companies will source the cheapest and lowest quality passives for the schematic provided, so that tends to cause issues as well, especially in regards to the end quality of the unit as a whole. I'm not sure what WiiM did with their internal DAC circuits, but they did an excellent job with the implementations of the Burr-Brown and the new AKM chips in my opinion. I've heard a lot DAC's that sound much worse. And I've played with a few of the best (integrated and separated). I don't think WiiM skimped in this area. Definitely room for improvement, but that would also mean a change in price point of their products. Ideally, I'd really like to see WiiM produce a streaming only unit without a built in DAC, not only with the standard optical, coax outputs, but also USB in the C spec, which they don't currently have as an output option. If they could improve the time clock circuit in the streamer side, that would probably help the performance of a separate DAC unit.

@thepracticalaudiophile

4 ай бұрын

Yes that would be great. HDMI ARC/EARC input with toslink, coax, and usb outputs. Plus a usb input that can connect to a HDD or thumb drive that can send hires audio files (including) dsf/dsd files and all pcm files. Flac, alac, etc. to an external DAC. Then hires pcm files from bluray disks may be sent to the external dac.

@GeirRssaak

3 ай бұрын

You so right! Remember that most hifi reviewers are paid,and many of them are tonedeaf and ignorant!

Definitely gonna be a fun one!

I'm hooked on my WiiM Pros. I have one on each of my systems and currently planning to upgrade to the Plus. I will say that the volume latency issue is still an occasional thing but less than it was when I first got the product. They work endlessly with updating the software so hopefully some of the small issues you discussed will eventually get ironed out.

WiiM was wise in choosing you as a vendor. Your honest review can only assist them in improving their product. Off topic: would you consider having a room tour video for those of us who cannot make the pilgrimage?

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Thanks! Look in our video shorts. We've done several short tours.

@markfx12

8 ай бұрын

@@skylabsaudio Good thing I don't live closer; you might have to have me escorted out at closing time!

Excellent info as usual, Kevin. DAC's are a sticky wicket, in my experience!

I've had a Wiim Mini for some time now. I voice control it with my Amazon Echo Dot. I'm a simple audio guy. I have it plugged into a Schiit Modi 3+ and a 1983 Harman Kardon amplifier. I love it all. If you sold the Bass-O-Matic, I might be interested. LOL

Honest and thoughtful review. The volume delay is indeed an annoyance, especially during TV watching. Otherwise, it's a great product.

I use a little blob of blue poster sticky tac under both WiiM Minis with slightly burlier cables in my system. Works well.

Straight forward review, but that's good. I like my Wiim and it runs smooth. As far as DAC'S are concerned, there is hundreds if not thousands of them out there. Personally I have the Schiit Modi and I bought the Geshelli J2. They function as they should, and the great thing about them, is both companies are located in the US. Are their products are built here. Great review, keep up the good work.

Kevin I watch your channel because you are a "Throwback " Let me explain!! over 30 years ago when I started electronics all your mannerisms remind me of those from that era .. I was a bench tech for about 3 months and hated the work but actually loved the people that did the work ( Throwback is a positive Urban Dictionary term = basically U take me back to that time) so I enjoy the a authenticity U represent. That being said welcome to the modern era of DACs go ahead and take a mini PC and load " Volumio x86" no raspberry PI required and the sound quality is better than WIIM also every gripe has a solution on that platform. Im here for U Brother help is need bridging the gap between Vintage and modern capabilities. Last thing: SMSL PS100 Digital to Analog Audio Converter may be the best fit for the bulk of the Skylabs audience because of flexibility & versatility

An additional plus w the WiiM is that it provides AirPlay 2 support for vintage receivers. It’s understood that not everyone wants to participate in the iOS/Apple Music experience but for those who do, a connected WiiM to a vintage receiver adds another speaker to the Airplay network within the Apple Music app.

Wait, what? Is it Sunday already? I can't handle all this fun. Thanks for your impressions and yes to your DAC intro content question.

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Thanks Craig. Saving the vintage for Sunday morning :)

@CraigHollabaugh

8 ай бұрын

​@@skylabsaudioaaah, very nice. Have a great day.

HI Kevin. I’m using the WiiM Pro you sold me with a Cambridge DAC Magic 200 from Crutchfield. I’m using Amazon Music HD. I’m loving the combo. I’d guess that the only nit, is that the App is a bit sluggish. My Rotel/B&W gear is very unforgiving of poor source material. This sounds amazing. So $150 for the Pro + $500 For the Cambridge. I’m a happy camper. PS: I also love the remote.

I got a plus mostly because it was Amazon day and on sale. I do like having dac options though.

I take that back, I have 3 Esinkin BT adapters and love them . Have been using them for a couple of years now. The only thing I don't like is that they go to the nearest device their connected to and like you said ,you have to manually go into your phone and shut off the receiver you don't want to listen to. Other than that I have been across the street in our neighborhood park and they still play perfect.

I've enjoyed the Wiim Pro with a JNOG2 [J2] Genhelli Labs DAC .... I only use one Wiim though and I also have my TV connected to it. I love the feature that the Wiim will notice when I stop streaming and it auto switches to the TV optical input.

I suspect op amp differences in the analog output of DACs (as well as the chip) is another reason they don’t all sound the same. Reviews do help a lot.

Hopefully wiim is watching and taking your gripes into consideration into software updates. They are re good at that.

I have 2 WiiM minis; one in a townhouse feeding a mini system (Aiyima T9 and Sony SSCS5’s). Optical from mini to T9, sound is awesome (never use BT) for under $300 all in. Other one is feeding a vintage system (70s Kenwood and Advent) for non vinyl listening. Wiim is very impressive at the price point

Thanks for not geeking out on the internal DAC quality of these devices. I would just use the Wiim to play music through a pair of powered speakers, and honestly wouldn't care much about the ultimate best quality. For my main system, sure! But for one of the kids' bedrooms, the mini will be just fine 🙂

For the best Wiim experience you really need to swear fealty to the Amazon Echo family and Alexa. They integrate seamlessly and you don't have to put a wiim in every room. Unless you want really hi fidelity in each room the cheap little echo will do fine. Amazon Prime music is as good as it gets and the Wiim is seen as just another Echo. Set it up as your main one and go. I have my turntable (Technics SL-5) through a Shiit preamp into the analog input on the Wiim Pro, My Sony Bluray into the optical and even my wife can play anything as the Wiim sees the signal and plays. Amazing really, Really like your show

@allensteen8883

8 ай бұрын

That's a Pro plus. And the Windows app truly sucks. It will play the music from my server reluctantly but gives no online options at all. WTF?

Hi Kevin your recommendation to hardwire the whiim is my next step, since I'm loosing connection. Thankyou.

I still have a powerful Craig FM broadcaster, but haven't used in years. The rubber on the cord rotted, I can do a whole house broadcast once you opened it up and turned the output up above FCC standards. Not that I did that.

Best value combo is Wiim mini and geshelli labs J2 AKM dac.

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Yes, I'd like to try some Geshelli Labs products, for sure.

@Artemis_Prix

8 ай бұрын

Agreed entirely, and even more so if you pair the WiiM with the J2 4499ex AKM DAC AND a linear power supply for both. Pure nirvana for less.

I love the new AKM chips in the WiiM Pro Plus! The new AKM chips are significantly better performing than the ESS Sabre 9018 chips used in a lot of low price point, yet quality, external DAC's and can easily run with the ESS Sabre 9038 chips. And the new AKM4493SEQ chips in the WiiM Pro Plus are way more capable than the tried and true Burr-Brown chips found in the WiiM Pro and WiiM Mini. So why do you need an internal DAC? Without a quality internal DAC, getting DSD 128 or higher resolution files over DLNA/UPnP to work with any setup is almost impossible as most optical and coax digital cables have a bandwidth limit (i.e. PCM 192kHz/24bit or DSD 64). So, the Pro Plus should be the perfect, right? Nope... While WiiM advertises the WiiM Pro Plus supports the play back of DSD file resolutions up to DSD 512 natively, it however doesn't. The WiiM Pro Plus behaves just like the WiiM Mini and the WiiM Pro models when trying to play DSD files natively. So... LinkPlay, when are you going to fix this for the WiiM Pro Plus so it works as advertised for DSD?

Earthquake putty. That's my solution to the Wiim mini/cable flip problem. I've got that stuff under breakables on most of my shelves anyway. With external dacs, the Wiim minis have massively upgraded 4 vintage systems for the equivalent of 4 tanks of gas (at my current California gas price).

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Never heard of it. Will look into it though!

Audiophiles are some of the finest humans on the planet, Vinyl has been bought and resold for decades same as tapes and CD's. But the same applies to audio hardware, Turntable's, Amps, CD players, tape decks, How green are we! our carbon footprint is like an ants foot.

Just ordered it for some of my JBL Bluetooth speakers..hope they sound a bit better.

Hey Kevin, my understanding is upgrading the Wiim power supply really ups the overall performance. It is reported to increase the sound stage, the DAC performance, greater instrument separation improvement in Bass and overall a more Holographic presentation. It's been said to compete if not beat the outstanding Eversolo A6. And better in performance than Blue Sound. It's software is also no muss no fuss and covers Qobuz, Title, and most if not all channels.

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Interesting 🤔

@TurboDV8

3 ай бұрын

🙄🤦‍♂️

Pardon me Mr. Moll, but is that a Galaxie Electronics T-Shirt from Pittsburgh, PA? I love that place, especially because it's nestled in one of the greatest record stores in existence! Thank you for bringing back some awesome audio gear memories!

@skylabsaudio

5 ай бұрын

Yes it is, they were kind enough to send me one.

@petenichols7153

5 ай бұрын

@@skylabsaudio It's a tiny store, but they know their stuff, and I'm kicking myself for not grabbing a few amazing turntable deals back in the day. If you ever get to Pittsburgh you must visit Jerry's Records to experience the vastness of their used record selection. Galaxie is nestled in a corner of Jerry's Records, and I always find something worthwhile in both stores whenever I'm in town. Thanks for providing quality video content and keeping the vintage audio community interesting!

Kevin, did you try the wiim pro with ethernet? Mine kept dropping out so changed to wifi and the connection was heaps more reliable

Is there any point hooking up an older DVD with RCA outputs to the Wiim pro plus through an RCA to Coax adapter? Would there be any improvement in sound quality?

Hey @Skylabs, after a couple of months and maybe some firmware updates, do you see any improvements on the negative points discussed? Thank you in advance! 🙏

The problem with having a service built in is that you're always going to have a better experience in the native app in terms of music discovery and playlist organisation. I think its more on Spotify to sort out Spotify connect

I'm not a music streamer, but I would be interested to see if you find any CD Transport/DAC combos that really impress your ears, Kevin.

@brunoespinosa5907

8 ай бұрын

I have 2 stereo systems. One is marantz nr1200 hybrid with every connection you'd want. The other is a kenwood kr 6160 1971 vintage receiver. First check your hearing. Mine is 11khz in right ear and 9khz in my left ear. I will never hear 15khz and above. So save your money and purchase additional complimentary gear that fits you. I have 2 aux ports, one with a Auris bluetooth that supports all codex levels. I use it with a Samsung phone to look and sample other artists. Works great. On aux port 2 is for cd/dac combo. I use a basic DVD player for playback audio only, no movies. Coax out the DVD that supports cd redbook, CD mp3 files and a flashdrive with multiple folders. Out to a Shitt modi 3 plus to rca in on aux 2. It sound incredible. Cds that I recorded from vinyl years ago sound clear and crisp. I set the reciever volume at 10 o'clock and use the remote of the DVD for volume control. That transport dac combo cost less than 160 dollars. 120 for dac 40 for dvd with coax out. Cheap but my excellent

Curious to see how the Pro Plus would of compared with the better dac.

@aammdj

8 ай бұрын

Cheap Audio Man reviewed it and sang its praises.

The Sonos modified by Wyred 4 Sound, sounds pretty good better than stock Sonos!

I have the WiiM Pro and I think it's a really good value. My one complaint is the it doesn't have SiriusXM native so I have to use that app on my phone to beam it to the Pro. My Yamaha WXC-50 does carry SiriusXM so that's what I normally use. The downside is that it cost $449.

Does Wiim Amp can I group 4 Sonos SL Speakers as surround speakers along with Sonos Arc? Do you suggest any other amplifier which can does it?

Nice review. I am Old School and stream nothing from the Internet (KZread exception). I am looking to use one of these Ethernet DAC units to play my collection of Music from my Local Network Attached Storage (NAS). Is this possible? Most all of the vendors' websites point to Online Streaming Services. (No Thanks)

I own both a Pro and a Pro Plus, they each have the same AK DAC. I prefer the sound of the Pro Plus personally, and it usually is the result of how the chips are integrated with the rest of the electronics in each Device.

@PH-gm2qe

6 ай бұрын

Its not true. Wiim mini and plus have the same PCM dac chip. Pro+ has AKM dac chip.

@sheffsteel7

6 ай бұрын

@@PH-gm2qe agree the mini and pro use cheap very basic quality dacs, the idea is you upgrade the sound with an external dac. Where as the pro plus is a middle of the road, half decent dac, you can still upgrade the sound with an external dac but it's not essential.

@PH-gm2qe

6 ай бұрын

@@sheffsteel7 I know. I just react and correct the @greengadget4687 as he stated that wiim pro and pro+ have the same DAC chip. I own wiim mini and know that its internal DAC is unusable.

I have found an excellent synergy in WiiM Mini to Geshelli Labs J2 DAC to Marantz 2238B to JBL 4311A. It's not as warm as vinyl but it sounds very good.

@GeirRssaak

3 ай бұрын

So you have wasted your money on two DACs in your system!?

@stephenbarr2735

3 ай бұрын

@@GeirRssaak No. The DAC in the WiiM is shit so I spent MY MONEY wisely and added a better one.

@GeirRssaak

3 ай бұрын

@@stephenbarr2735 have you been infected by the dangerous hifi virus?! If so, no medicine or snakeoil can cure you!

@GeirRssaak

3 ай бұрын

Very nice to hear that you are a very sensitive person!

@GeirRssaak

3 ай бұрын

Do you live in a country where you have acess to the healthcare you deserve?!

What about the Pro Plus? Internal DAC? This video ignored that model. Comments?

Velcro or micro suction tape for stability.

@dwanpyrtle3134

8 ай бұрын

Ya beat me to it. I wish I had been the one to invent Velcro. There would be many wealthy family members after me, not having to work for a living, for many moons. Suction cups eventually*?

I’m interested in a Galaxie Electronics T shirt. May I ask where you got that?

@sethelosser7897

6 ай бұрын

must have got it from Vince

I've not heard anything that sounds as good as the Play-Fi in my Anthem receiver. Is the WIIM WiFi or Bluetooth ? I want to use it on my vintage Sansui system.

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

WIIM is wifi

@lotusmanb3832

8 ай бұрын

@skylabsaudio Thank you I'm going to buy the WiiM pro.

Is the Wiim (even the mini) really that much better than Bluetooth?

@aammdj

8 ай бұрын

Yes, it is.

Good review but I would personally consider Sonus as one of the least values for the money in the entire audio market today. They almost remind me of the old Bose brand where they are very overpriced and underperforming in comparison. A marketing company that happens to sell some audio products. WIIM is definitely a better product for almost everyone.

I'm sure someone said this, but I use Spotify with a Wiim Mini all the time, via Spotify connect.

This was a good informative video as I was thinking of getting a Wiim streamer myself. However, I mostly want to use it as a preamp and to play music from a NAS storage unit, and not necessarily a music service. Looking at what is out there, I can't believe the great number of overpriced little black boxes are out there. One such unit, the Eversolo DMP-A6 caught my attention because it had a display on it. However, the price is $850 and it is referred to as an INTRODUCTORY model?!?!? So, digging deeper, I found out that these streamer boxes can cost upwards of $5k! And I am saying, "What the hell for?" It is an electronic black box that is 1/10th the size of my computer of which costs 1/3rd the price. And really, that is what it is, a computer. Why should I spend $5k for something like that. Worse, what are you going to do when something like that breaks? As Kevin pointed out, in regards to his prior, and expensive, Sonos system, the newer software upgrades don't work on the older units. I don't get why a company that would charge so much money for their product, would suddenly stop supporting it. But that does seem to be the way of things and if you ask me, when it comes to Streamers / DAC combination units, it is better to go cheaper, or as Kevin says, get a better outboard DAC. This way, if they unit breaks, or they stop supporting it, then you are not out a grand or more. For me, I would NEVER spend more than $500 on a Streamer / DAC...EVER! Don't feed the trolls! Goodness knows there is enough trolling going on in the hi-end audio realm. Nice to see that Wiim is offering a decent product for a good price. @ Kevin, Can't wait until you get the Wiim Ultra in and review that!

I compared the regular Wiim to the Pro Plus; I can't hear a difference. I got the Nirvana power supply: I can't hear a difference. I got new preamp Tubes for my tube amp: I can't hear a difference. Not sure if I should be disappointed I can't hear any issues or happy I'm saving money and I'm content. I was genuinely hoping to hear something "better" or "different". Does anyone else feel as perplexed as I do? I did switch between filters in the Wiim Pro Plus and heard a difference, but the filter I liked (super slow) was basically what the regular Wiim provides already as characteristic. I got a new vintage Pioneer preamp for my tube amp and that made a difference.

Mount it in place with double stick pads.

Do you have the Bass-O-Matic for sale? Ha ha (The picture with Dan Aykroyd.)

Just stick some Velcro pads under the WiiM.

I'm still confused about what these little magical boxes do, after all I am just a cavewoman lawyer . Not familiar with all these new and strange ways to make sounds come out of my music boxes in your modern concrete world .. LOL So if I hook one of these to my stereo, and connect to KZread on my phone, I can listen to the music on my stereo?

@skylabsaudio

8 ай бұрын

Lol. You're being silly. Sign up for a music streaming service like Tidal (excellent quality) and access to almost every song ever made. Then plug the WIIM (the magic black box) into your stereo. Go to Tidal, on your phone, pick the song you want, hit play and the song plays on your stereo. Great way to explore music you don't own. Fun! You should try it!

@karaDee2363

8 ай бұрын

​@@skylabsaudiolol... thanks Kev, I'll look into that

@user-ji5jy1ll9j

8 ай бұрын

Love the SNL reference.

What's a WIIM?

A lot of the stuff you mentioned is not there because Sonos have patents on these functions. WIIM can never get these functions unless they want to end up fighting Sonos in court like Google

Has the opposite experience with Spotify vs Deezer. Spotify picks almost always the top rated/listened songs by any artist, so all I will hear all day long on any AI generated mix, are those. Ex. Orgy has a huge catalog but all you will ever hear is Blue Monday. Deezer has the "Flow" feature which is a lot better version of Spotify's discovery. Also Spotify will continue to recommend artists to me I try to hide, whereas Deezer will not.

Comparing Wiim mini with Sonos ecosystem doesnt seem fair. Neither the price or size wise. If you go all Wiim Pro or Wiim Amp, you can group them as you like using chromecast groups. Just choose the group to cast from spotify or your chromebrowser in a computer. It also works well in combination with other chromecast speakers. In this aspect the Wiim are more versatile than the Sonos ecosystem

There is WiiM app Windows but it is bad.

I have really good advice but sadly youtube won't let me post it.

When you work at home on the PC did you know you have hair?

Sonos has issues for sure