If you're a PvE player watching this, I'd love to hear your perspective on this video. Leave a comment below ❤️

@whysogrim697

3 жыл бұрын

Your not wrong in most of your points but if you want to pin the blame on anyone entity I'd say it's solely at the feet of Bungie. Animals don't attack when they are not hungry in the same way people don't become toxic if they feel valued or well catered for......

@bastion164

3 жыл бұрын

When I express Ideas on how to make the game better I think what's best for the community otherwise all my ideas would be make Scout rifles have no drop off, extreme flinch, do 90 to the head, and shoot at 999 rpm. Not everyone who expresses Ideas about PvP are selfish.

@pyrosfolly5698

3 жыл бұрын

You asked. When i play PvP, it's... strange. I'm not great at it, but i find that it's honestly not fun on its own. Its the same grind for the most part. So i end up having to make up my own fun when I'm playing, like treating it like Casual TF2. And that can't be extended to modes like Trials and Elim, though Trials is much worse. But in the end, what do i know, eh?

@findthereal12

3 жыл бұрын

I just couldn’t give less of a shit about PvP now. I play to get the Seasonal stuff done and then forget the mode exists. I’m so fucking tired of Hand Cannons and Shotguns after years of this bullshit. Vocal PvP players throw hissy fits any time something can challenge the dominance of those two weapon types and have complained about the bigger maps we had in the past. If we get new and bigger maps, they’ll likely enjoy them for a little while and then complain about Scouts and Snipers on the maps.

@Anubis_F0X

3 жыл бұрын

I like playing PvP in Destiny every once in a while but it is kind odd for me because the narrative team at bungie is hitting it out of the park. But both Gambit and PvP are stagnate as hell as if all their efforts are in telling the best story they can and nothing else

This goes deeper than pvp, many of your points are easily applied to any core playlist. The issue is with Bungie's treatment of core playlists, not just crucible.

@FcoEnriquePerez

3 жыл бұрын

This comment here, 100% agree.

@CalixtoErico

3 жыл бұрын

Finally someone who gets it. Their exagerated focus on seasonal and monetized content has left the core experience to dry. What is there to do in strikes, gambit and pvp besides suffer through RNG for playlist wepaons? Crickets. Have dungeons got anything new? No. Heck, they can’t even keep raids on a rotation ro encourage people to run them all.

@JRam1

3 жыл бұрын

This guy gets it.

@elyk0956

3 жыл бұрын

Precisely

@Tuocal01

3 жыл бұрын

So true I used to always run all playlist activities but find myself fully avoiding strike playlist these days

Ye. That’s why I add the caveat of “your reasons are as valid as mine” before even humoring PvP discussions. It would be nice to have objective game modes and primary gunplay at the forefront & to be able to deterministically work towards loot. Apparently those are fighting words to the larger Destiny community 😓

@NihlusN7

3 жыл бұрын

It's hard to implement objective based game modes if people can't even capture the zones in Iron Banner. People tend to ignore objectives when there's rewards only for getting kills. Reward system needs to change to accommodate objective based game modes.

@HollyDaySheep

3 жыл бұрын

@@NihlusN7 I had a bounty that got me a transmog currency for capturing 50 Zones in Control Now if that isnt an incentive to play for the objective I dont know what is 👀 /s

@thesexysanghieli7818

3 жыл бұрын

@@HollyDaySheep That's one example, and sadly it, in my humble and individual opinion, isn't one with a very worth-while reward

@NihlusN7

3 жыл бұрын

@@HollyDaySheep Synthesis currency is not powerful gear. I get what you're saying but even if it was powerful gear, this would be just one bounty. But imagine if you have to actually win the match for your progress to count or if you earn 3x or 4x the progress of the quest/bounty by killing guardians with zone advantage. Like: No zones - normal progress 1 zone - 1.5x progress 2 zones - 2x progress 3 zones - 3x progress I'm no game designer but I think it would help people to play objectives and not only farm for kills. Alternatively they could give us a minor amount of synthweave for each 50 zones or so without the need for bounties but they will prefer to push silver purchases on us.

@jamaledwards8118

3 жыл бұрын

These are fighting words because you're trying to force your narrative instead of see the entirety. I'm a giant fan so it kind of hurts for me to actually type this but I don't get this community. Everyone with a voice is pushing their own narrative soooo hard they can't see the obvious anymore. For instance your comment of focusing on primary gun fights. Look this is a looter shooter so primary fights other than exotics are already at a advantage or disadvantage. In other words it fukin sucks to have a gun fight when desperado is aimed at you or any other damage perk. On the flip side going against a gun sooo stable you might as well call it a trace rifle. I know it's a pick your faith type of thing but imma be real on this it's easier to have this mindset when it comes to halo, battlefield, cod, ect why because all you have to do is level up. 10x easier than grinding for a bottom dollar with a roll you want, easier than grinding trails just to get a gun you want with every perk you hate. Only time primary is exempt is when it's an exotic vs exotic but then that goes into another situation. Movement and these cqc maps. Console players will go special every time because movement and tracking SUCKS and its easy to pray and spray or shotgun any and every thing front of you. On top of that players do not want to be bound to their primary weapons over 80% of a match who are we to try and force that on them. I hate to sound mean but a lot of these are the same players that can't hit a stationary target in pve but somehow we're expecting your average player to land shots on a icaris dash, stompee bouncy, and linear sliding rush down titan that can superman? Let alone do this in a cqc map thats crowded with a bunch of cover and things you can jump over? There's a reason why trails is lacking players vs iron banner, there's a reason why players are becoming more and more prideful in their capabilities to cheat and hack. Just saying. Anyhow love your guides and a lot of your inputs just wish we swap to the narrative. Band together and get bungie to bring maps instead of nerfing the flow of gameplay. I've seen this mentality happened in warframe.....and it's surly popping up in this game as well.

An absolute superb video here Nomad. I mainly consider myself a PvE guy with hundreds of GM completions, but I do hold the Flawless title, and have gone Flawless over 20 times. The reason I don't see myself playing PvP personally is really just due to lack of variety. For me, maps are a massive thing. As someone who experienced the Taken King content drought first hand, the NINE CRUCIBLE MAPS that Bungie added during that DLC single-handedly transformed me into a PvP main back inside of Destiny 1 simply because of how much I enjoyed playing it when the PvE content dried up. With Beyond Light, Bungie has made PvP even worse for me by removing any sense of variety the playlists had without adding anything back to it. It was overall a net loss with nothing put back into it to help balance out that removal of content. So for me, someone who enjoys PvP but doesn't play it religiously, new maps are a MASSIVE thing for me as a player when it comes to enjoying Crucible time and time again. Also no Cheaters, yeah, they've kept me from playing Trials all but one time this Season, so Anti-cheat would be nice lol

@AscendantNomad

3 жыл бұрын

I am *this* close to maining PvE, you have no idea. Glad you enjoyed the video my friend!

@kallum39

3 жыл бұрын

@@AscendantNomad GM Guides by Nomad when?

@shaik100_

3 жыл бұрын

Hi joey!

@cheppard2420

3 жыл бұрын

@@AscendantNomad I never played as much as PvE ever then I did in this season 😅

@Mentality__Edits

3 жыл бұрын

I agree with the anti-cheat I think that’s something that would make pvp much more playable. I remember prestasis nerf that I was getting burnt out of playing crucible within 2 matches now I can go for hours but it does get rough at times

**sees consecutive weekends where Igneous Hammer adept has double the kills than the regular version** Yeah…. We are getting close to Trials of the Nine level to an unhealthy trials experience.

@echo2121

3 жыл бұрын

Trials of the Nine in it of itself wasn't bad, it was just that there was no incentive to keep playing for loot when weapons had fixed rolls

@echo2121

3 жыл бұрын

In particular I think having an objective based mode like countdown as the Trials game mode helped a lot to dilute passive play and force players to take action

@TheNacropolice

3 жыл бұрын

@@echo2121 We don't want fixed rolls ==> I want to grind loot for days for a god roll which is the fixed roll I want. I never understood the fascination with not having fixed rolls on pinnacle activities. Trials Died because pvp in this game is ass. Fixed rolls was a red herring the community latched onto to hate because, let's be honest, D2 was them somehow unlearning everything they learned in D1.

@echo2121

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheNacropolice you are a small minority in that case, and yes, trials definitely died out simply because without gear to grind for, players no longer had incentive to play. this is factually what happened

"or you are a narcissist that likes to get off on their own negativity" That downward spiral of hate circlejerk is more powerful than people assume. i've got someone in my Discord who has not played Destiny FOR A FULL YEAR and he still posts every negative video from popular content creators he can find, at least once per week. The dude has literally no idea what PvP or PvE is like right now, but he absorbs every bit of negativity from reddit, twitter or youtube that he can. He is the embodiment of the "quit having fun!1!1!" meme, he takes such a weird form of pride in not playing Destiny like the most annoying ex-smoker. It's laughable. But this is one kind of person who is very active in the community even though he does not know what he is talking about. That's the one kink I would like you to shame.

@dewdusmaximus7692

3 жыл бұрын

Talking out of one's ass isn't anything new, it's just easier with social platforms to ironically one-up others' joy of something. Distancing from individuals like the one you describe here is one of the healthiest things people in the Destiny community can do.

@Pugilation

3 жыл бұрын

We have one of those too. When the last TWAB dropped he chimed in about the changes to 120's - he's never actually used one!

@Chocula

3 жыл бұрын

I can never wrap my head around people like this - we get it, you don't like the game anymore yet here they are wasting actual time and energy in bashing a game they don't even play! Like I get it - we ALL want Destiny to be a better game (and we all know it can be), but if you've already moved on what do you get out of bashing it?

@NeuroHead

3 жыл бұрын

Ban that fool

@mannequin1832

3 жыл бұрын

This is bungie forums all day

Damn we got Merced, we are breaking up teams, oh look were playing the same team, or screw those team baggers, wait they are on my team now.....Iron bannana in a nut shell.

@azeznlordoffloof1519

3 жыл бұрын

Plus I can never get a full game. Mercy rules over and over, on both sides it’s us or them but never a ful fight

@kumlekar9640

3 жыл бұрын

Or even control. I think I was in 5-6 mercies out of 11 games played yesterday. I'm not a strong player and am out of practice. 0.43 KD, but of those 11 games, I was on the winning team in 9 of them. Jumping into matches and having zero effect on the outcome is not fun. I know top players like the connection based match making, but not having any location for weaker players to play just makes them not want to play.

@g405t

3 жыл бұрын

@@kumlekar9640 you have room to grow, just try to stick behind cover, try not to get caught running out in the open. use decent weapons, stick near team mates, and take your time. You can get better!

@EmporerAaron

3 жыл бұрын

Regular Crucible I can't say is a big issue..Iron Banner is a entirely different story.

@godknightomega

3 жыл бұрын

@LWKGD Blueberries that T-bag you for not meeting THEIR standards. I've gotten clowns like that too because I refused to use stasis when it was completely overpowered. I was the only one on my team not using it while playing against an entire team of stasis users.

As a pve player i find it hard even in quickplay , sometimes i just want have fun , try different weapons and get better at pvp. But it has become a sweatfest even in quickplay and ppl are afraid to try anything else beside the meta.

@mattdp5267

3 жыл бұрын

I have felt this too, I want to try so much new stuff but I always run into chaos reach geomags and 120’s (I play console so no dmt pain), I used like jade rabbit 2 days ago and I did well, but every time I got laned by 120’s and geomags and renevants, it sucks, I feel you

@dantedshaw1996

3 жыл бұрын

I know that feeling too Peter. Anytime i want to just have fun in PvP, my runs would become a waste.

@johnromero6315

3 жыл бұрын

This is my biggest problem with PvP, and I honestly don't know what Bungie could do to fix it. The way I see it, it's more of a problem with the general Destiny playerbase these days. The majority of the people who even care to play PvP are the sweatlords who would never dream of running anything less than the best of the meta. There's just no incentive to have more casual players bother to play regularly.

@ShutchyerLips

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. My first two years playing, I just played random load outs to have fun and mess around. My overall kd is trash because of that, and it will probably never get much better since it carries so much weight. Now it all has to be so competitive and meta in order to do well, which kinda limits the fun factor of experimenting or improving with off meta load outs. I play comp because it's way more chill than quick play, but it's also not a place for experimenting lol

@nycto5335

3 жыл бұрын

I honestly thinks it's because most of the people sticking around are into PvP enough to want to play meta but I also think another contributor is the matchmaking since it's super common to get matched against highly skilled players that tend to play meta or just play really good. So it makes some other players feel like they have to play meta to make up for the gap and compete. I met a guy that explained it that way when I asked why'd he suffer through Trails a couple times even if he didn't attempt going anywhere near Flawless. And I am sure there are some other players that do the same though at least not to the same extreme of doing Trials to get some meta weapons from there.

Thanks for this. As a PvE main, this nails it. I still try to play Trials now and again, but every week it’s “win two, get stomped, reset card” over and over. I enjoy PvP conceptually, and do play Iron Banner… but there’s no real rewards unless you can regularly go flawless, and it’s a long slog to get good enough to get there.

@ronioksanen3183

3 жыл бұрын

not to talk about its game mode I myself play suprising high amount pvp, but it's control iron banner and some rumble. Because I just dont like 3v3 format which is both ranked and trials so i am not touching them tough I am good at it at least what my friend's say that I am with 2.0 k/d and k/d/a even higher even though I have over 10k kills each season. Other problem for me is meta is pretty much never changing its allways somekind hand cannon meta going on. Friends said i was crazy when i said I liked gnawing hunger meta, but at least it was something else than hand cannon's it feels like there is 1001 hand cannon's for every 10 other weapon in this game.

@StatusCalamitous

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronioksanen3183 yeah, that’s true too. At least hopefully they’re gonna be shaking that up a bit soon with the latest changes. We’ll see!

@redfalcon8062

3 жыл бұрын

Dude yeah I feel you. I get stomped, bagged, and I just reset. Just for the loot. And for that I just...feel helpless when my team loses. Probably because I hate getting two tapped by a small Hammer Gun

@tomas8742

3 жыл бұрын

valor reset gives you exotic that is all right if dont or cant do GN

@crisidelm

3 жыл бұрын

@@ronioksanen3183 Yeah, 3vs3 in this game it's really not so good for me. I liked old Comp, when it was 4vs4 and a mix of different game modes, but Survival (and Trials, which is glorified Survival) I just can't take. Not playing Trials at all; if there was a different way to get the same loot, no matter how grindy, I'd go for it, but as it stands I can easily live without it while preserving my sanity instead (which is also the reason why there are so many cheaters for recovs/carries: the loot. People want it, most of them can't get it the honest way so they resort to the dishonest way, and where there is a high demand, there is also a matching offer. It's a vicious cycle that Bungie doesn't want or care to break, who knows why...)

My headcannon was always that Bungie was just pissed off that nobody liked Y1 PVP so they were just like "Aight we aint doing anything anymore for you PVP [buddies].

@CincyRaz

3 жыл бұрын

I think that is Kevin Yanes described perfectly.

@aaronferrel2219

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed it almost feels as though because they failed, they feel it would be better to do nothing. Personally I would rather they try and fail than do nothing at all.

@kilesov117

3 жыл бұрын

@@aaronferrel2219 thing is, if they do try and end up failing then the hate mob will just rip them a new one. Players have gotten to the point where if bungie doesn't make a prefect update to PVP then they'll just endless whine and bitch about it. However, I am concerned that even if bungie does do something really good with PVP that they'll still bitch and whine because it's not what *they* wanted them to do with PvP. I love this games PVP, the game modes are fun, if repetitive. I hate the community that surrounds the top levels of PVP. The players who have seemed to lost the concept of fun, the players who refuse to do anything other than mercy chain control even though they get next to nothing out of it. The players who don't at least sympathize with the poor sod who lost both his teammates because now he's just that much easier of a win. These are all players I've encountered, and ones I vehemently hate.

@Jet-ij9zc

3 жыл бұрын

@@kilesov117 one thing you dont seem to realize is that no matter how good the update is, some will endlessly whine and bitch about it. That has always been true and most likely always will be, for destiny and for all other game. Their objective shouldn't be to stop the complaints because they simply can't do that. It should be to make changes that would result in those complaints becoming about frivolous things and nitpick instead of the very well deserved complaints the majority of players currently have

Ah, my therapist and professor is back with another great discussion.

@whysogrim697

3 жыл бұрын

"Indeed" Teal'c Star Gate 1997

@AscendantNomad

3 жыл бұрын

Hold up college isn't free That'll be $100

@stevewilson6723

3 жыл бұрын

@@AscendantNomad but he used the discount code Ascendant Nomad for free therapy and 10% off a gaming supplement.

@Painadesu

3 жыл бұрын

@@AscendantNomad It’s severely less than normal I’ll take, wait ah fu- nah I’m to broke for this.

@redfalcon8062

3 жыл бұрын

@@AscendantNomad See I'm broke, Mr. Nomad.

"I know you are working on something, but being silent on what's coming is only hurting your most loyal players." I see we are in the silence phase of bungo development. This is the eternal cycle. Silence, deterioration, atrophy, apathy, promises, hype, content, silence again.

this is one of the best videos i've watched from a Destiny PVP content creator. everyone is talking about , use this gun , use this mod ...how about the state of PVP in this game

@mattwelsh129

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly I think most Creators are just tired of it. They have all done “State of PvP” videos. Many very good ones. It’s just fallen on deaf ears for so long. It’s sad.

@strange63635

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattwelsh129 devs are paying attention now and they are sucking dick, they realized they almost lost this game bc they neglected pvp for so long Im hopeful bc pvp is already better and they have great things coming 😌

@roar104

3 жыл бұрын

@@strange63635 are they though? We've gotten much needed tuning patches and promises about pvp before many times. What makes you sure this time is different? Not saying it isn't, just curious where the certainty is coming from.

@tayoffbeat

3 жыл бұрын

@@roar104 “dude trust me”

@roar104

3 жыл бұрын

@@tayoffbeat I hope he's right. Wish the game changes back into something closer to the destiny I liked so I can justify hopping back in, but it just ain't it RN for me

All this chatter about PvE vs PvP, meanwhile Gambit's sitting in the attic collecting dust, with its only recent change being the merging of two mostly fine game modes into the horrific abomination we currently have due to conflicting sentiments from both PvE and PvP players :)

@pyrosfolly5698

3 жыл бұрын

Gambit honestly needs to be taken back to the writing table and edited. It's in a shockingly bad state right now

@grapeape4589

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly most people I’ve talked to enjoy gambit in it’s current state more than they ever had before and that includes me so I’m not so sure about it being a “horrific abomination”

@Kaze02se

3 жыл бұрын

If gambit bounties were completable by teams instead of solo, I think it would instantly improve the situation in not just gambit but strikes as well. Most are just competing for kills and completing their bounties, with no attention to playing the mode properly

@SunSun-sk4si

3 жыл бұрын

@@grapeape4589 The only upside to current gambit compared to the pre-BL Classic/Prime split is that games are over quicker. Besides that, adds are much more difficult now to where you need either warmind cells (soon to be nerfed) or a fully-kitted reaper loadout to deal with them even remotely well, first-invade snowball is even worse now with such brutal mote drain, and primeval dies at 2x slayer within the 15 or so seconds between invasion portals, never mind the general consensus that good invaders can easily carry a team due to invasion mechanics. Not to mention people still play it for the sole purpose of doing bounties, weeklies, and challenges, which completely contradicts the "play to win" mentality since most of those tasks are done much more efficiently if you disregard the objective, and with the general stigma around Gambit being "game's garbage, gimme my stuff and get me out", you're sure to get people who will throw the game. The only way I've found the game enjoyable is playing with friends. Solo queue is a mess, and complemented with the fact that half-decent stacks will roll any group of solos, there isn't much room to have fun when you're trying to solo queue, while the vast majority of the Gambit playlist is populated with solo queuers.

@justintaylor6604

3 жыл бұрын

Omg, right?! I can’t fucking stand Gambit anymore. Like, when it’s Hive, WHY DO THE SHRIEKERS NEED TO BE STRAIGHT UP YELLOW BARS?! They also need to do something so that the bosses can’t be melted so quickly and the bounties and triumphs need to be adjusted to reflect that it’s a one and done match and not a best of three anymore. Yikes on Gambit for real.

I agree with this. When I watched this video, I asked myself "do people actually like PvP or do they like to complain?" But I also wish Bungie cared more than just saying we're listening and we have something ready. I now don't blame the "remove the PVP from the game" but I also don't want that. I like PvP even though I don't win every game and I'm not the best player out there. I also dread playing it too but I wish Bungie gave PvP an iota of care. Keep it up with the vids Ascendant Nomad. I'm always watching

@snowoffstream5823

3 жыл бұрын

Honestly, I had cared about it there for a while, and it actually wasn't bad. I mean, I can't really do anything but 3v, so I stuck to Elim, but I was having so much fun and enjoying myself. Then as it went on, I started facing higher tier people, and even higher... Until I was facing people within the top 15% of the game, while I'm still in the bottom half somewhere. Less than bottom 30%. I don't want the PVP removed, I just... I want it to get some attention, and the glaring issues at least addressed, because it's not even remotely fun anymore.

@redfalcon8062

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not the best in PvP either, I'm currently practicing sniper. And really it's a pain but it's also a learning curve. Mostly because I'm playing Control trying to learn it. And really I don't want PvP removed. I want it to stay there and just (like the other comment above me said) give it some attention. Sometimes I don't enjoy PvP and sometimes I do. That's just me. Sometimes I am a masochist considering that I play Iron Banner alone with randoms vs a six or five stack. I'm also a masochist for playing Trials and losing alot just for that Trials weapon. And really PvP is more in the middle for me, but I'm leaning towards it being not fun anymore. Because I hate getting forced into PvP while trying to do a catalyst. I HATE IT SO MUCH!!

@xNeoNxCyaN

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not gonna lie I actually genuinely enjoy pvp, I was doing my hunter solstice armour a few days ago, and was playing a match with izanagis and the seventh seraph smg, and it was the most fun I’ve had in pvp in a while

@snowoffstream5823

3 жыл бұрын

@@xNeoNxCyaN I honestly just can't get behind it anymore. :/

three years without a gambit map

@wretched.1704

3 жыл бұрын

Ngl despite the hate for gambit, I find it more fun than crucible sometimes

@CCBrown92

3 жыл бұрын

You'd think we'd have gotten at least one by now.

@apollusx

3 жыл бұрын

@@wretched.1704 imo gambit needs way more attention than crucible does it’s such a unique idea that could be so much fun with even the slightest bit of development effort put into it

@hikarisdemon

3 жыл бұрын

@@apollusx i hate gambit but i want to like it, i just hate that being behind in gambit just makes it harder to win since the other team gets more invades etc, i feel like invasions should be used as an equalizer "you banked a load now they're coming to get you"

@apollusx

3 жыл бұрын

@@hikarisdemon yes that’s what i’m saying back with og gambit invades we’re a catch up mechanic and then gambit prime came along and used invading as an “incentive” to win

Brilliant video, wonderfully explained and detailed. I'm dying to see PVP be buzzing with positivity instead of constantly holding this frustrated feeling of how it could be so much more.

I want to say this was eye opening. But everything is a valid, well constructed and unfortunately well known aspect to this game for long-term players. Good video man. Hopefully it gains traction.

@sawoszao

3 жыл бұрын

the problem with sbmm is it drives away the “core” players. Size of the population didnt really change when sbmm was dropped. Bungie needs to figure out how to draw in more players into pvp, large population means more skill variety and lack of sbmm does not hurt as much fir the lower skilled players.

Fantastic video! I think most dedicated PvP players just want the game to be fun for a wide audience. More players = better experience generally

I'm playing at a 1.6kd this season in everything outside of trials (I'm a 1.3kd overall, so above average but nothing too special). Other than playing for 3 wins, I see no reason to stay in the gamemode. It isn't fun getting bagged by every other team, outside of pulling off a comeback and getting that sweet Karmic justice. Bungie gave nobody outside of the very best any incentive to stay in the mode. You can't turn in tokens unless you've reached win 3, you can't farm weapons off losing like you could in d1. There's no rare scarab emblem to chase for the collectors among us. Nothing. Bungie are throttling survival too, which is a gamemode I love and thrive in. Outside of the weekly pinnacle and unbroken, you have 0 reason to go in the mode. This season bungie changed how matchmaking works in it too, so as a gilded unbroken I'm only playing other unbrokens from 0 glory onwards. That is fine and all, but not when I'm playing with my two friends who are still adapting to the Playlist and just want the unbroken seal. They shouldn't feel hopeless and I shouldn't feel guilty for dragging them into games even I couldn't win. Destiny tracker came up that some of the games we played had a 99% chance the enemy would win (with a total team elo of 2900, the best player being better ranked than Frostbolt ffs) Apologies if this was a bit ranty, I'm more than open to chat if someone wants to comment ❤

@pyrosfolly5698

3 жыл бұрын

I generally try to do my best when i play Survival Freelance (i have no friends who play and i really don't feel comfortable playing with LFG's so much), but i never feel like i have a reason to outside of power grind, or wanting to improve at PvP. But it doesn't feel fun to play it, and that's the general issue i have with it atm. Also, you're fine to rant a little, haha

@SampleChan

3 жыл бұрын

@@pyrosfolly5698 and thats great, sbmm should definitely be a part of bungie team matchmaking. The issue is arises when it sees a player like myself (or better, probably better lol) and matches me with 2 players who are below the statistical average. The same will occur for the other team. So rather than the game being full of equally balanced skills, it's a case of whether I can outfarm the other teams top player. That isn't fun for myself and it sure as hell isn't fun for the 4 of 6 getting farmed

@Pugilation

3 жыл бұрын

Gratz on getting gilded, that's a heck of a slog!

@pyrosfolly5698

3 жыл бұрын

@@SampleChan Yea, i know the experience your friends likely had - tried doing some elim with some clan mates (back when i was on PS4, I've switched to PC now) and it was terrible, especially since i wasn't very good at PvP at the time (I would like to think I've improved a little since then.) Unfortunately, i wouldn't know how to best fix this issue.

@SampleChan

3 жыл бұрын

@@Pugilation thanks! I've found some amazing people to game with so my next aim is for Fatebreaker (the vog title). Pvp is eating itself from the inside out, but at least the pve part of the game is thriving so there's something to do in my downtime

I feel part of the problem is matchmaking as well. I don't understand how I (a guy who's always struggling to have a kd above 1) always get matched with the sweatest people, with their 2 tapping igneous hammers, god roll weapons, 200% mobility, intelect and discipline. I mean, match me with other scrubs so I can actually learn to play the game.

@deddjay

3 жыл бұрын

Unfortunately for you, it’s not just the sweatiest with all that lol

@S3Cs4uN8

3 жыл бұрын

Well good news, what you want is Skill-based matchmaking and we can't have that because it slightly inconveniences the sweats and we can't have that /s

@SweatLord21

3 жыл бұрын

@@S3Cs4uN8 as if you scrubs don't already torture me enough with the team balancing

@543shade

3 жыл бұрын

Perf said dude. I feel the same way.

@FirstLast-gw3dt

3 жыл бұрын

@@SweatLord21 Although as a "scrub" I'm obligated to agree with you on some level and others might even argue it was a very well articulated argument in itself, unfortunately, your Mother.

Cod has American's who are trying to fight who ever they want Oil from next😂

@padawan4976

3 жыл бұрын

That sent me 😂

@snowoffstream5823

3 жыл бұрын

I loved this comment so fucking much

@nickgrout2502

3 жыл бұрын

I mean he's not wrong

@NemesisRulezZ

3 жыл бұрын

That made me laugh so hard i had to pause the video so i dont miss anything

@bastion164

3 жыл бұрын

@@NemesisRulezZ your name is Haunting

I’ve kinda stepped away from the Destiny community as a whole. So many people just complain about how the game is right now, which they every right to do, it’s just that it becomes draining to listen to. I’d love to get into PvP, but it’s never gonna be balanced, which is just a side effect of having a game with so much loot. Maybe if Bungie overhauls PvP it could get good, but as of now I’m staying away from it.

@Chocula

3 жыл бұрын

Man, you literally cannot browse r/DTG without seeing at least 5 or so posts shitting on the game's very obvious flaws with at least 2k+ upvotes. The social part of the community literally gets off on making threads on problems EVERYONE is aware of just for that sweet sweet e-clout. It's a snake eating it's own tail.

@sonofjenova6172

3 жыл бұрын

Out of all comments in this video you are the most spot on. Every single day I get on Twitter and I see some big content creator in the destiny community shit on destiny and everyone just agrees with it. It's not healthy to the fans and the devs too. I truly believe the devs motivation is at a all time low and can you truly blame them? Every time they show something new they get yelled at. Hell they had a summet that was focused on pvp and people STILL shit on them. They had a podcast and the entire community was at a uproar for one out of context clip about a glitch that 50% of the community didn't even know existed. I wouldn't be surprised if they just truly gave up and are hoping that bungie's new game to be the companies big one. I love destiny and I have hope's that they are going to give pvp a massive up date but with how the community is looking and how the devs are so quiet about this stuff and how managment thinks it's a good idea to make a new game when destiny clearly needs help. I'm starting to think the worst is yet to come.

@aka_dyn0808

3 жыл бұрын

r/dtg is just a circle jerk of negativity. Don't bother listening to anyone aside from content drops, leaks, and twab readings

You know what would be cool, if during gardian games there was a cool fun mode for pvp, it would be a 3v3v3. Where the titans, would be on one team the hunters could be on another team and there would be a team of warlocks. To make people want it play it you could add cool rewards that you can only get through the gamemode. Idk what they would do for the objective but if you have an idea for that, that isnt another tdm, be my guest

@zae4557

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe like a game of supremacy but i in n order to confirm the points for mother kills you have to dunk them in your home base. Extra points for dunking them in the enemies base

@zae4557

3 жыл бұрын

Idk I’m just brainstorming

@leetlevolfie8250

3 жыл бұрын

That sounds really cool. They could also do something like headhunter from halo reach, where it’s supremacy but you have to bank them at a location that is changing every certain number of banked items.

This video made me sad. So many fun memories from PvP in the past with friends to now seeing an all grey friends list of people that never player the game anymore.

The toxic nature of PVP stems from the “it’s all about me” mentality. Ego is a huge thing for top players, and the fact that there’s no team flair or anything to get people to work together is essentially the crux of the issue imo. Someone’s always mad, someone always wants to be right. Like you said, you’ll be drinking from the poison eventually. I know this firsthand because one of my teammates was using bastion, other team wiped us, and started bagging as a team, and firing their guns. I got angry in retaliation and messaged the one guy, started throwing insults and afterwards I was like “Wow, they really did get to me. I can’t let that happen again.” My main issue is, the culture surrounding being “hardcore” but in reality your regular person just wants to jump in crucible after a long day of work and have some fun, but then you’ll have match after match of Iron Banner sweats ruining your time despite solo queuing. Mainly venting my own frustrations here, your channel has made me a better player but I still have yet to find teammates that are on the same playing field as I, along with the same synergy. This video was perfect. Edit; I’m also a PvE main that enjoys his crucible a lot

@Acez420

3 жыл бұрын

Literally one of the comments that clicked with me the most; a lot of top players have huge egos, and belittle casual people who are just here to play/enjoy the game, (It’s. A. Game.) To be completely honest, I consider myself as way above average, but that doesn’t give me the right to start shit talking or dick measuring k/d, elo, or other useless stats. The PvP community in general is extremely hostile, and from personal experience, it’s almost always sweaty players who are telling others, “just get better or don’t play crucible,” or the very cringe “just adapt,” with an entitled attitude.

@GokaiiRed

3 жыл бұрын

@@Acez420 I'm glad you took the time to read my comment, much appreciated. I completely agree with your sentiment, useless stats don't determine whether a player is good or not. They are generally pretty hostile and no wonder no one wants to bother with crucible, when they could just do chill PvE content. There are so many things one could say about the state of the game, but in my opinion the sweats just ruin the time for people who have other things going on in their lives. This isn't to flame anyone. I'm just stating my opinion. Something's gotta change.

@543shade

3 жыл бұрын

Well said dude, I totally agree w/you and the others who left comments. These things a HUGE problem for the game/"community"

@zefferss

3 жыл бұрын

As much as people say retaliating to toxic t-bagging players, or people that emote/shoot your body is pathetic or whatever. I have the mentality of not taking shit from anybody myself, so if someone does something, they are damn well gonna hear about it. I don't care if they felt like they won by getting me to be emotional and respond to their shit. Fuck that, nobody gets away with doing shit to me and not hearing back, not gonna happen. Nobody is better than me, nobody is entitled to farm me for k/d, I don't care. It would be like your neighbor letting his dog shit and piss on your property and you don't do anything about it. No, I'm not advocating violence irl, but you would do something, even if it was as simple as filing a police report. Why should I take shit from anybody? In a video game to top it all off? I refuse to take shit from toxic assholes. I also usually dodge lobbies anyways, if I play 1/2 rounds max and I think people are sus, I just leave. Not gonna sit here and give you the satisfaction of farming for your bullshit aimbot/ego whatever the fuck. One reason I leave is because it wastes their time also, because most likely the 1 or 2 teammates left are gonna leave or they will kill them for like 2 rounds and match over. But still with a lower k/d for them, then they gotta go back to orbit and sit in queue, load back in. Yeah it doesn't stop them fully, yeah in the overall it doesn't really do much, but if you're gonna waste my time, I am for damn sure gonna waste your time. Nobody walks all over me and gets away with it, plain and simple. Maybe I need to let that go, but I am nobodies bitch, and never will be. Plain and simple, we need to look at the bigger problem, the elitist streamers and others that talk down to casuals or semi-tryhard players trying to do decently well, but not super sweaty. There needs to be incentive, and implementation for casuals to enjoy pvp again. Trials needs a re-work, hell every playlist needs a re-work. Give us SBMM and CBMM, give us more pvp options. Give us solo trials queue, give us CBMM/SBMM in trials. Re-work the loot, give us pinnacles again. ANTI-CHEAT ANTI-CHEAT ANTI-CHEAT!! Actually implement one, not some whispers of some background dark alley anti-cheat that supposedly is in place... no, cut the shit and implement a proper anti-cheat. Stop telling us bullshit. No I don't want to know how it works so that it gives cheaters details to work around it, I just fucking want it to work and actually be real. I've been playing first person shooters for several decades, and I can tell you that like 90% of my deaths in D2 are fishy and sus as fuck. I've never seen this level of bullshit in any game. I played CS GO on a competitive level for several years, and several other games. It's so insanely obvious how many people are closet cheating or just out right cheating, it's insane. People moving with sheer perfection, always perfectly timing when they engage you, some teams I feel like I can't do anything, and I look at the play list, and oh btw, it's a team of solos, nobody is in a fireteam. But btw, they all move, peek, slide and coordinate together like they are sitting in discord as a 6 stack on comms. Get the fuck out of here with that noise. Pure bullshit. In no other pvp game does that happen, sure it can by accident or sometimes people coordinate, but not to the level of literal perfection I see from people in D2, it's laughable how obvious it is that these people are wall hacking, and using aimbot. CS GO has been around for several decades, and you still have people in the casual play list that play like casuals, you get a variety of skill, you get low-tier noobs, decent players, higher skilled players, and the 1 or 2 sweats that feel like trying. But other than that, you still get people that don't want to move out of a camper spot, or not help rush a bomb site. But in D2? Nope, everybody is hyper aggressive, on point, plays off eachother correctly all the time, everyone is a pro, everyone can play perfectly coordinated even if they are all solos on the enemy team. Give me a fucking break, and cut the bullshit. People need to hold Bungie accountable for this shit, but people refuse to. Nobody will vote with their wallets, or pressure Bungie in a constructive way. Streamers are getting paid, why change anything? Sweats are farming bads, why change anything? Cheaters are farming sweats and everyone else, why change anything? Cheaters are not getting banned, why change anything? Bungie does not make money off PVP directly, why change anything? Recovs are cheating and getting paid, why change anything? This seems to be a trend, but I digress. It's just sickening seeing how things are, and nobody wants to do anything about it.

I came for a destiny PvP discussion and got a David Attenborough documentary on the volatile nature of the human species within Destiny. 10/10.

I feel you on that whole “I’m right and you’re wrong.” Found myself in debate with a hunter over class viability within regards of PvP, hell I’m not even too sure how I got into that debate. I hope things get better, I love this game and I generally try to avoid negativity. Stay positive guardian.

@strange63635

3 жыл бұрын

What was the argument? I appreciate where the classes are right now despite the broken subclasses but they are doing well I think in balancing, I believe the light subclass balance that's coming will be great.

@strange63635

3 жыл бұрын

@Phauhk Yohre Mowhter • yeah I totally agree and I knew what you meant before the example. I'm crossing my fingers that it's this point that is what gets addressed in the coming subclass balances. Although you are correct about Hunter being much more simple in execution while remaining effective, I personally think Warlock (specifically TTD) is right there with Hunters mobility....I think Titans should have something exclusive to titans as well but it doesn't work if everyone is restricted except for Hunters lol I probably sound obvious but I'm just saying I hope they keep TTD the same and just make other sub classes closer to it and Hunter as far as utility and movement options go. I main Warlock and I love how all 3 classes have a distinct jump they just need to bring more to other trees like they did TTD. Not nerf TTD bc then they are gonna lose me and others most likely. I think FLUID, fast paced mobility is Destiny 2's meat & potatoes and if they slow stuff down or hinder that then I am afraid of it becoming stale. Imagine if they nerf TTD....and....what....? If they nerf that then obviously they aren't gonna be bringing more to the other trees. Movement is crucial to D2 identity I feel like and maaaannnnn im just worried

@strange63635

3 жыл бұрын

The one thing I'm keeping faith about is the discussion the devs had on that interview recently. The conversation came to the idea of bringing more risk to our options, or having at least a "cost" instead of a "get out of jail free" ability because it negates the consequences of a mistake made by the player. I like that but they don't need to go wild, small small changes like the recent weapon balances. SMALL SMALL adjustments lol I hope they don't kill the fun

As I'm currently practicing sniper, I've been running into six stacks or just that one guy that has been flawless in Trials and just nyooms around the map at top speed. Sure it's a challenge for me to overcome but it's just tiring to see those guys over and over. Trials though, I'm just there for the loot. But man just getting two tapped and losing everytime (while also being bagged, which they have every right to. Cause they've earned it) drains me too. And yeah I should just "Get gud" but experiencing this really makes me just not WANT to get good. Running into shotgun rushers, tryhards, six stacks, meta stuff...I don't know what else to say. Oh and also getting forced into PvP for an exotic catalyst is really annoying. PvP should be a choice not a mission. And Gambit. I'm one of the guys that like Gambit cause of PvE and PvP. I want to see some change in that. I want to see new maps for both Crucible and Gambit. But yet....we don't have that. Yeah that's all I have to say really. Just wanted to say how I feel cause ya know..this channel is like a therapy for gaming.

@acethemain7776

3 жыл бұрын

no surprised, there exists no good training that involves constantly getting curbstomped by people with years more experience than you.

@nycto5335

3 жыл бұрын

Which is why actual matchmaking should be added to Trials. Or rework the whole thing to be ranked or something else. Anything else could probably be a healthier hardcore PvP activity at this point with an actually healthy player population and incentives.

I feel so heard watching this. Well put Nomad

Bungie needs to make it so if you went flawless that week and are still playing your card that you only match other people that have already gotten 7 wins. Nothing feels worse than being 6-0 and going up against a team of flawless gatekeepers who are on a 10-20+ win streak when you are on your last game. Not only did they ruin Trials for you but also for however many people they beat to get on that streak in the first place

@ShutchyerLips

3 жыл бұрын

That's actually kinda genius.

@_Sol6

3 жыл бұрын

Whose idea was it to make gatekeeping rewarding? Jesus

@Krantzstone1

3 жыл бұрын

This has been a problem since D1, and one of the reasons why I haven't played Trials since the one match I played in D1. ;P I get DDoSed enough in regular Crucible. People have been bragging on the Bungie forums since D1 about going out of their way to camp Trials solely to prevent people from reaching the Lighthouse, and apparently nothing has changed since then. ;P

@welds8424

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair that takes away the novelty of going flawless, when eventually you don't ever run into proper competition. Flawless should not be given out, but time invested should be rewarded more than it is.

@alexr5658

3 жыл бұрын

@@welds8424 It’s not a free flawless you will be just going against teams that are relative to you. It’s much more fair to play against a team that’s also 6-0 instead of a team that is 20-0 who is going out of their way to ruin flawless for other people

I quit playing this game about a month ago after playing since d1 launch. I’ve always been a pvp player first and pve second. With the lack of updates to crucible I just can’t keep playing it. It’s just disappointing. I hung in there for a long time but I can’t do it anymore. I’ll come back if they can change it and add something that reignites that pvp fire. There are so many good content creators in this community and I continue to watch, support and like their videos. Cheers.

Ohh I do love hearing the word "Wanker" used it's rolls off the tongue and caresses my ear with its sweet sound

On top of all of that, destiny has rarely ever felt like a 'community' at all.

Well said.

@mongoose1804

3 жыл бұрын

you mean based?

Before watching: Yeah, they do. What did they do now? After watching: Me, me, me, then me again. Couldn't have said it better. Narcissism. It explains most of human conflicts. I try to enjoy PvP but there's too much unbalanced shit going on. I simply can't. I do my bounties, get my pinnacle, put up with the shit until I get a good enough roll from a weapon I want, move on to other activities.

POV: you’re looking on newest for the people who are pissed off by the one point

I'm one of these grand master warlords you mentioned in the video and I guess I'll share my perspective. I've been playing this game for a while now I have over 4000 hours put into it just on steam. I used to play PVE and PVP about an equal amount. One reason why I left warframe and came to destiny was because it actually had an active PVP play list and community. There was a point where I even wanted to try and git gud at PVP this time was toward the end of season of arrivals. But With how stasis came and shook things up and how it hurt an already slowly declining PVP population things started to change. I slowly started playing PVP less and less. I guess this is from the populatoin shrinking or maybe I'm just getting worse at the game IDK but it's like my enjoyment I used to get out of crucible has been going away with the player base. I almost hit a life time k/d of 1.0 right before stasis launched and that season my k/d dropped big time. Even now after the major stasis nerf I feel like I keep getting worse and worse and I strive to get better at things I enjoy like this game. So since I thought I was getting worse at PVP I started focusing more and more on PVE. I put that passion and urge to grow into PVE and even though to this day when I do play PVP I feel like my skill is still going down I've reached new heights in PVE I've done things I never thought I would be able to do. Like solo flawless dungeons and master nightfalls or even complete grand master nightfalls. Now I've gotten conqueror title for every season so far since beyond light and I gilded last season and I'm on my way to do the same this season hell I'm planning out a solo grand master run this season. But now even after these achievements I feel like I'm missing something and that something is my old enjoyment of PVP. Every time I play now and I'm not in a stack, every time I decided that I wanna solo some PVP I just keep feeling that I'm doing worse and worse no matter what I do and it's so discouraging to the point where I want to play PVP so badly but I feel like I just can't compete even on a basic level anymore. I don't know if it's me or if it's the population or if it's any reasons you mentioned in this video but I'm craving that old enjoyment I used to get. I crave that feeling that I was improving at PVP so badly but I just can't get it anymore. Every solo match I play I feel like I'm getting stomped left and right so bad that I can't even seem to understand when I do make a mistake and learn from that like I used to be able to do. I don't know whats wrong but I miss it and it's gotten to the point that if it keeps getting worse I might stop playing the crucible completely. Its not about loot or reasons to play it's about not having that sense of growth any longer and only having a sense of failure. Idk what's wrong but something just isn't right in crucible anymore.

“Those words cut deep, deeper then any blade” - A wise man once said

Honestly, the last time I had even a little fun in crucible was when we had sbmm. The game needs more sbmm playlists so players who suck can learn instead of getting pub stomped by streamers and top 10% players. Seeing gameplay from the lowest tiers of sbmm really shows just how much it’s needed.

@ShutchyerLips

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. Sbmm kept us from having so many steamroll matches. It was such a shame when the community voice became a festival of complaint that matches were always against challenging players. I personally loved it. I felt like I was earning my progress and it was when I saw the most change in my skill gains.

@loganainger7824

3 жыл бұрын

SBMM is great even for an upper quartile players (the group I play with) provided there is both enough population and sufficient anti cheat. I’ll be the first to admit that it probably isn’t very fun playing against the group I usually stack with for majority of the population, since balancing against any group working together is a challenging problem, never mind a group of classical “try hards” that takes winning far too seriously. However ( asking for a little understanding ) even someone like myself who lives in the top 15-20% starts to get a large number of overseas matches, and markedly more players noticeably using “assistive” software, with headshot percentages in the upper 90’s. To me, large levels of latency and cheating present similar feelings of hopelessness, and futility in progression. I’m all for a more balanced crucible, where players of all skill levels can make meaningful progress, but it is important to remember that solutions such SBMM bring their own challenges.

@ShutchyerLips

3 жыл бұрын

@@loganainger7824 absolutely. Everything has downsides to go with their upsides. I think it would be great to have more sbmm playlists while keeping some cbmm playlists. That way you can pick your poison.

@McCaffeteria

3 жыл бұрын

They won’t do it though because players will gravitate to the SBMM playlists and the hypocrite sweat lords will just complain that the CBMM playlists are empty. Having some SBMM and some CBMM playlists don’t solve the problem because the tryhards are all or nothing and VERY vocal.

@nickystyles

3 жыл бұрын

just realized someone else made this point. hard agree. crossplay is going to boost the numbers, this is the perfect time to bring back sbmm. it will also help with the contoller vs mkb issue. if you are on console and worried about the disadvantage why would you even bother trying without any type of matchmaking?

I am not one to comment on vids but this video is the definition of important and needs to be spread and shared THROUGHOUT the community in both pvp AND pve. We are all one voice and one people with brillant, renovative ideas that deserve to heared and loved. For new players and old, we together need to communicate to the developers of the game we so love and are forever passionate for to hear us and to communicate with us on a daily, pro-active and postive fashion. No matter the time it takes, I for one still have hope that both ends of the spectrum that make Destiny the game we want to thrive can be equally cared for and treated with respect for both time investment and improvement. Nomad has spoken what we all had in our minds for years so i think it's time we all spoke up in the same volume. Together Gaurdians. Edit: OH AND GAMBIT! Lets not forget about gambit >.>.

@ShutchyerLips

3 жыл бұрын

I really would love to see a better way of giving bungie feedback. Using the forums feels like adding my ideas to the bottom of a pile of toxic knee jerk complaints. We're really only as strong as our community, but nomad is right. The community mostly tells us we're wrong and makes us feel like we shouldn't weigh in on things anymore. Glad to see another person with positive hope and contributions. Thanks!

Well done Nomad. This the voice and message I would want to bring to a roadmap session with my developers whether it's for an exciting game or the next mundane embedded system we are creating. You and your editor, managed to cut through layers of misinformation and ego, to distill a core and universal message. Thank you, for continuing to produce the content you do.

@igorscrok9403

3 жыл бұрын

May I ask what game you are creating? I'm quite interested to see it.

It really is all me instead of we. Something I have noticed. Again this has happened with me so I have no idea if this is really a problem with other people. But the community just gets so toxic around pvp. People quite often go to insults or just blatant rudeness to win an argument or prove themselves better or something. The amount of times Ive been bagged just for being good (which at this point idrc about) and comments Ive had and deleted off my steam profile and dm's of just sometimes really racially offensive insults. I really hope this only happens to me. Bc I would hate to be a newer player and get bagged the living daylights out if and then insulted in such a way. I ruins it for everyone.

@acethemain7776

3 жыл бұрын

well steam msg's become irrelevant if you're private, but yeah, i've been bagged for using just a standard hc + sniper setup nkuch style.

@toirdealbachbartoium5454

3 жыл бұрын

Once got called the n word for using a sniper and a sidearm. I have never felt this more.

@543shade

3 жыл бұрын

I feel this comment 100%. I have basically been messaged that I should kill myself and never play games again. Along with other dumb shit. It ruined it for me and pushed me basically out of the playlist. So I guess they won in the end...

@thebapslaps

3 жыл бұрын

@@543shade Dont let them! Trust me I know the feeling. If it helps. Try and find some friends via LFG or if you really want to. Join into my clan or something. I play on pc. idk what you play through. but everyone should be able to enjoy pvp.

I´m a PvE player, and I usually don´t play PvP (although sometimes I like going into it and play some matches). I play two games, Destiny 2 and League of Legends, and I´ve always said that crucible isn´t meant to be taken seriously. It may have some deepness to it, but I´ve never seen any kind of "glory" about becoming good at it. If I want to play a competitive game, I go to LoL, Overwatch, etc. they feel much more rewarding and playing in those games at a higher level feels feels more exciting that playing high level crucible to me. Still, Bungie should take some more care of it because at it´s current state it´s incredibly stale

The sad thing is, I'm holding out for halo infinite, hoping against hope that they manage to fill the void that destiny pvp has left, but after the post bungie run idk if theres any merit to that at all. Reading between the lines, witch queen and beyond is a long time to wait to see changes promised at the start of the year. I recognise half the names in most of my matches these days, and that really tells you the pool of players is running dry...

@riothegod1831

3 жыл бұрын

Well, the truth actually is pvp has more players than it used to average last year. Pvp averaged around 400k last year while recently its been at 700k. 700k daily pvp players. That's a lot

When Darkness was introduced, I thought the universe might become more dynamic with Guardians being split on loyalty lines. That could've led to making permanent decisions with your characters (i.e., going full emo/Dark Side), or at least special events of Dark vs. Light.

I love that you take the time to make these. We need more of you

Speaking as a mostly-pve, Double-Gilded Dredgen, i have a pretty contentious take on the whole matter, because i've been a Crucible hater since day 1. Only ever seriously engaged with it when i was grinding out Rat King before the Sunsetting, hated every second that i've ever played in Crucible, and never felt any particular compulsion to return to it. It's the part you said at the end about how PvP players are leaving for pastures newer that makes me pipe up, because i have to wonder if there *is* any alternative to the death spiral by now. I reject the idea that crucible can be fixed by focus on gunplay, either, because that's exactly what bungie *tried* to do with crucible at the start of Destiny 2 and everyone hated it so much that they did the Go Fast Update like immediately after launch. I assert that there's a failure at the design stage to reckon with the reality of what Destiny is and what its sandbox is. When Bungie made Halo, they included the Forge and the ability to customize gamemodes and find skulls for armor pieces. They developed an engine for combat and then handed the controls of the sandbox to the end user. In that context, it was players who discovered stuff like BXR and double shotting and superbouncing, and players have a lot more control over deciding what is and isn't balanced in that context. I don't just mean in the context of doing breakdowns and tier lists, though, I mean it's a lot easier to enforce "no superbouncing, that's broken" in a context where you're all playing Halo 2 on one shitty 18-inch CRT TV in your friend's basement, than it is to enforce "no wall hacking" in a public CS:GO lobby. When you move everything into an online, live-service context, when your game is getting balance updates every few weeks, when the nuts and bolts of how guns shoot and abilities coincide changing week on week, you start running into the moba problem. i.e., the game is always in a state where 1 or 2 things are broken no matter when you play. That kind of eternally-broken cycle is a constant problem in MMOs, but it doesn't turn into a problem there because when you're doing quests and raids against AI enemies, the focus shifts to empowering the player. Hence the constant drip of new equipment, new unlocks, new things to experiment with in the sandbox. That kind of constant variation and radiant quest design is incompatible with a tightly-balanced, competitive arena shooter experience. There are simply too many plates to keep spinning. It's like trying to have competitive PvP in a Bethesda game. It's why every moba fanbase is full of the kind of doomers who are to doomers what doomers are to normies. Bungie is managing this nuclear reactor where players are angrily bouncing off each other in a dense space, making lots of energy, but the toxic radiation that this system generates is kind of unhealthy for the community as a whole. I firmly believe that Crucible was doomed from the design stage for this reason; it put everyone in the wrong mindset. Made everyone think we were getting a competitive environment like a Halo, because that's what bungie's done well in the past. There was *maybe* a chance for that in the past, if bungie had taken Trials and made it a hardcore competitive mode where light powers and stasis was turned WAY down and the focus was back on gunplay and FPS skills. As it stands now, though, I don't see a way to salvage it from this quagmire. Alternatively, I propose that Gambit not only is, but deserves to be considered the actual PvP mode of Destiny. The competitive grinding aspect of testing combat as a means of resource-gathering is more in-line with the design of the PvE sandbox on the whole. The skill set that the PvE content trains you in will actually apply to Gambit in a productive way, even if you're not the sweatiest of arena shooter gods. My non-gamer boyfriend plays the shit out of gambit because his default mode of "hang out in the back, hide behind something and pump DPS" actually works, even if he never so much as attempts going near the invasion portal. He hides when an invader shows up, and in Gambit, that's actually strategic and makes sense as a play. Gambit is a test of the skills the rest of the game operates on. When we've tried to go into PvP, we've hated it because it feels like we need to learn the game over again from scratch and nothing we learned really applies. Which, of course, is partially our fault because the only reason we were there in the first place was to knock the questline and bounties out, not to actually test our L337 FPS skillz. If you *are* a PvP god who enjoys getting sweaty, I can understand why stomping morons with no game sense as an Invader probably doesn't stimulate the senses as much as a competitive arena shooter that you would like. I just don't think that Destiny is going to become that game. I don't think it ever had the potential to be that game. And I think players holding onto a hope that it will be are chasing a dragon.

@severedloki4500

3 жыл бұрын

As someone who was a Gambit main when I played Destiny, this speaks to me. Very well said

"CoD has the Americans versus whoever they're trying to get oil from..." -Nomad 2021

I used to be really into crucible back when I started at the end of forsaken/start of shadowkeep. Since beyond light and stasis, I've only been in crucible for pinnacles and dipping and the occasional trials when the 3 win loot is something I want and just do the bounty then go back to raiding or doing nightfalls. I have never gotten to 5 win let alone flawless. I love the world of destiny, but outside of the seasonal activity that gets old after a week or two the game goes back to being stagnant and nothing ever changes. The core playlists have been rotting away for years now and I hope it changes soon, but that hope is dwindling. Love your work, Nomad.

@pelikanvernichter

3 жыл бұрын

Same it was more fun before beyond light

Well articulated and humbling! Our greed and ego always cause us many troubles, ure right that we do think narrow minded and dismiss others unfortunately

The D2 community has a severe lack of empathy. Most players seem to give zero thought into making the game more enjoyable for anyone but themselves. If working together or helping isn't incentivized by bungie, almost nobody is going to do so of their own volition. It's gross and I wish I was more numb to it than I am. I'm being vague, but I don't think I need to really get into specifics for this to ring true for a lot of people.

@FaolanKitekaze

3 жыл бұрын

There's very much a dichotomy to the destiny community. There's a large part that is genuinely helpful and kind, just wanting other people to enjoy what they do. But there's an equally large part that is always going to be negative and self centered

@cryptosporidiom

2 жыл бұрын

In my admittedly only two years of playing, I have never had a positive interaction. Most people are completely silent, and the ones that do communicate are either raging or bagging. Same goes for any Destiny related interaction outside of game, where people are much more vocal but sadly still generally horrible. Not sure what's wrong with the community, to be honest.

"You're a narcissist who gets off on your own negativity" bruh, thank you!

11:03 I feel like this, some 5K hours into Destiny 2, I still pickup the game from time to time, but I'm not loggin in every day for several hours a session, farming for godrolls on new weapons lost its touch with the forsaken sunsetting wave. I've never cared about PVP except for Crimson Doubles. I'm still a Guardian, I also work with ARKS now.

Well said dude. Hoping to see a community moulded to give the most beneficial feedback. But as well as this to see it acknowledged is going to be super Important.

The way you described the nonsense that is d2 pvp and how it feels like 12 people dropped outta nowhere on a map,and told to kill each other. It's empty

PvE player here, and I just wanna say your editor's points hit my major issues with PvP. I don't see a reason to get better at a PvP game that offers very little incentive to play outside of getting better and an occasional piece of Iron Banner gear. I don't get why PvP players like PvP. Never have, and until Bungie gives people like me a reason to play PvP outside of, "Here's a new ritual weapon/catalyst," I don't think I'll ever know.

@CoreIdeas

3 жыл бұрын

Editor here: Glad it resonated with you!

Now this was a great one.

Gambit-forgotten about Crucible-forgotten about Pve- they’re eating good

Yesterday a member of the clan were i in was hacked and the hacker start to use infinite súper, infinite warcliff and fly, the owner of the count talk to all because he want to enter and he can't, even he send photos were shows something like "Can't login in this count because is in use"

I’m a pve player and feel you covered the subject really well. My opinion? Pvp is just a place for good players to beat up on people.

@Excalibur-je5pk

2 жыл бұрын

The only reason I disagree, is because destiny is the one of if not the easiest fps game ever. There is so much scrubby shit that just gives you kills in pvp that even someone who is considered a "scrub" can do decently. With that stuff, if a player is not competent at even the base level of pvp, that is the players problem not the game.

@mikegoldfinch

2 жыл бұрын

@@Excalibur-je5pk agree about the scrub kills but that’s what makes it less enjoyable because it makes it to where I can’t maintain a 5.0 kd like other games

I really do think that just simply adding back rift would help the pvp tremendously. That game mode made me want to play pvp. It makes you play like a team even with a random group. Bungie needs to do something g ASAP because the pvp community has waited long enough. I can’t imagine if how bored I would be if bungie did 2 expansions worth of content for just pvp and left the pve alone. All is pve guys would be screaming at the top of our lungs for some content. Truthfully I do t know how you pvp guys have hung in there as long as you have with literally 0 co tent for over a year. I hope they do something soon

@versaille7549

3 жыл бұрын

it was such a fun mode

I wish I could like playing PvP but anytime I go into a match I feel like I've played the same PvP for 1000 years. It always FEELS like nothing ever changes, even when it does.

Damn, that message to PVE players (like myself) @ 13:24 actually hit me in the feels. Felt like he spoke for thousands of players that wanted me to feel included. Feels good man.

Been playing Halo 5 lately cause I’ve done everything story wise in destiny and PvP is a mixed bag for me. Really liked this video nomad.

@tyler77971

3 жыл бұрын

Hey I actually jumped back into H5 as well too! I forgot how fun sniping in halo was lol

@Fatlumpthe1st

3 жыл бұрын

What's the population like? Is it easy to find matches in Halo 5 still? Been a long time since I've played it but I was thinking of giving it another go

@quinn8599

3 жыл бұрын

Same man! (We should play some games some times dude. Always nice to have other halo players)

@quinn8599

3 жыл бұрын

@@Fatlumpthe1st really good surprisingly! Granted there are times when it's slower but thats usually that like at dawn

@Anubis_F0X

3 жыл бұрын

@@Fatlumpthe1st depends on the mode

I have taken a break myself....I'm not crazy good in pvp and never gone flawless but pvp is the main mode I would play. Just needed to play other shooters because I felt frustrated with destiny pvp just being the same all the time.

I told myself last season I would suffer through trials just to get at least one roll of every weapon and armor piece for transmog, but after 3 weeks I couldn't even bring myself to just jump off the map for 40 minutes to get through the 3 win bounty. Outside of the rare times I decide to try and reach the pinnacle cap, I have no desire to play pvp. Amongst the people I know who no longer touch pvp, this is the general consensus: there's no reason to play so why would I do something I actively dislike?

Such a good discussion piece. I have countless friends that love FPS games and after slowly convincing them to try Crucible, none of them enjoyed it or decided to stay. Every one of them agreed the guns felt amazing to use and loved PVE, but felt the toxicity of the crucible experience ruined everything. From teabaggers to hate mail, I really feel there has been a shift in players attitude in PVP and I am curious to know if it is a side product of their own frustrations with the state of PVP.

You know I was thinking recently about how are team doesn't have a name or anything you like in Titanfall the Militia and IMC.I was thinking what if we had light vs dark guardians Idk what they would call us but just give us a name 😂🤷. When it comes to the announcers for the light side you will get the regular dialogue maybe with some update lines and with the dark side you can get the darkness speaking through your Ghost but it will depend on your game mode for example regular control and Iron banner. When it comes to the classes if your on the (Imma say Chosen for the light and Disciples for the dark) Chosen side your abilities will all look normal with light mods. When you are on the Disciples side your light subclasses look twisted with darkness mods. Now when it comes to winning the games every map should have its own little cutscenes for example Twilight Gap I think that's the name but say the chosen win the Traveler will shoot out this wave of energy to kill the Disciples like a Thanos snap 😂 with the team posing. With the Disciples it can be them slaughtering the 1 or 2 of the chosen have everybody's body laying around then the pyramid ships flying over head going towards the Traveler.If its a tie I guess have us keep fighting each other in the cutscenes since nobody really won. This is just an idea I definitely feel like it can work other then that we DEFINITELY need more game modes like invasion or something. We also need bigger maps with vehicle combat we need a lot in Pvp tbh 😂😂 hell I want some ship gameplay eventually in Destiny.

I'm weird then lmao... i like just sitting down and "shooting the mans in face", as you put it. Though, I also have a teammate that constantly forces me away from the comfort zone. I used a bow the other night. Just because. I hate them, but the only way to truly cultivate mastery is to use everything the game has to offer.

@Paladin1034

3 жыл бұрын

Bows honestly aren't bad. People look at me funny when I use them but if you use them right, they can absolutely wreck. I got point of the stag and it's still one of my favorite PvP weapons. They won't one-bang like a sniper, but you would not believe how many people will peek shot you. Like I just hit them for a 150+ crit, but inevitably they peek with their 120.

As a PvP TO PvE main, This is putting what i think into words better than I ever could. I gave up PvP as a routine activity because it just felt… flat. You do a match, you’ve done the next. I can understand the argument against variety modes being “but splitting the base is just going to elongate MM times” but we already have pinnacles being the reason people come in. If we have actually engaging activities be the focus of these pinnacles then maybe we can build a better relationship with PvE’ers who come into PvP.

I'm glad you spoke out about this

Honestly, there's so many reasons I've legitimately lost care to play the game, let alone the PVP side. Sure, the movement is in a class of it's own, with how unrestrained the 3 dimensional play can be. You can float in the air, you can shoot through objects, you can combine both to make such insane plays that nobody would ever believe! There's all of these things that you can do, but like... It falls short, and bear with the comparation, in similar ways to... Apex. I get they're two entirely different gamestyles, with two entirely different sets of gameplay aspects. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the core. That's why I don't play Destiny PVP. I get on now, play two to three matches of Elimination, and then sigh, and get back off, and go back to Apex. First thing, is it's just... The matchmaking levels. I get that matchmaking isn't perfect, but like I've been asking of Apex... Why am I facing players that are within the to 15% of the game, when I'm in the _bottom 15%?_ And it's not even a one-off thing. It's constant. It's not enjoyable, because I want to get better, but I don't want to live in an aim trainer for the next year to do it. Aim only goes so far when you don't have game sense... And this next thing is so minute and tiny, that I'm expecting to receive flack for it, but: Why, Bungie, does my reticle move to the left or right when I strafe, instead of staying put? Why does it hitch like that? That may just be the apex enjoyer in me speaking, but I really wanna know because it hurts mentally to aim with that constantly moving like that. And here we are, to the last reason... It's toxic. Beyond so. Sure, there's a meta. Sure, there's tryhards. _But why are you being toxic to me when I'm just playing casually and enjoying myself?_ During the time mocon was back, I learned that swords with no ammo could onetap people. So I did the obvious thing: How many people can I kill this way? It was beyond fun, and it was exciting when two people walked around the corner, because the adrenaline levels skyrocketed. But I received so many hostile messages and people telling me to kill myself because I'm... 3 peeking and enjoying myself with a really dumb tactic, that can backfire at any given moment. Even some of my former friends are beyond toxic to me because... I'm not "good enough", as per half of them, and shouldn't bother with trials, so I get recoveries so I can still get the items and not miss out on what I want. I spent an entire stream just vibing and enjoying myself while being bashed by them because of that choice I made. TL;DR: God awful matchmaking, resulting in unfun matches, hitching aim, toxicity, and possibly elitism?

Just finished bagging a guy for GL spam. Guess it's time to open my mind with the sweet softness of nomad's voice

@tuttuti123

3 жыл бұрын

let me guess, 120?

@xxx_swagolas_xxx6590

3 жыл бұрын

Funny coincidence, I just finished GL spam while bagging every kill lol

When im tilted after a match this is the voice that heals my mind. Thank you for bringing awareness and critique to pvp in a constructive manner.

My PVP crucible meme is "If I want to play pvp I will do as the developers intended and play anther game."

@generalzeta7000

3 жыл бұрын

Okay finished the video and now I see how hard I hit the nail on the head with this comment.

My problem with trials. I've never been flawless neither have any of my friends (we are pve players). Every time we go into trials we are instantly matched with flawless sweats. How is that even a thing? If you have never been flawless you should NEVER go up against flawless players.

@erroroflife187

3 жыл бұрын

Not everyone is meant to go flawless. It’s not the players fault that Bungo gave people no rewards without winning

i'm an average pvp player at best, i mostly do pve. pvp basically makes me feel like a standard red bar enemy as i get farmed relentlessly by 5.0 kd players. the match making is awful, the rewards for the punishment i have to sit through are non-existent, i can't improve because the skill gap is so large i spend most of a match staring at my orb. i haven't even remotely considered doing trials, and the season glimmer challenge doesn't come close to convincing me to try. oh, and getting one-shot shotgunned to the face isn't particularly fun.

@erroroflife187

3 жыл бұрын

Skill gap in this game would is smallest out of any FPS game. The game literally helps u aim with aim assist, and abilities, super, and broken weapons give free kills. Just give a day or 2 worth of time on aim and other pvp aspects, u will be top fragging in qp in no time

@4realm8rusirius

3 жыл бұрын

@@erroroflife187 I see stacks of teams often even if I perform decently team stacks almost always win

Incredibly well put together. I feel that this sums up things as a whole.

I dont usually comment on youtube videos, but the points made in this video are bang on. I would like to add a couple items. Please note, im not complaining so much as I am voicing things I believe would objectively make pvp more inclusive. I know how capable Bungie is of creating great content: - integral mods such as powerful friends and radiant light that give a huge advantage in pvp arent something you can grind for. This is super frustrating for people who want to be competitive. - To add onto the game modes comments - why arent there real ranked playlists? This one item in itself, i find myself hardly bothering to play during the week when trials isnt around. Ranking up with skill based match making makes things more fun for players at every level. - BALANCE. Yes theres been some great updates lately for the sandbox making more weapons viable, but the stat dependency is brutal. I would love to see things like resilience, recovery and intellect not be factors - this would open the doors to newer players as the gear takes sooo long to acquire. The gear dependency ruins the sandbox IMHO. All 3 classes need high recovery - this makes gearing out a hunter way more difficult than a warlock because a warlock can get away with low mobility but a hunter cant get away with low mobility or low recovery etc. Again, makes playlists more accessible just simply by actually putting effort in to balance classes between each other. Its disappointing because I do believe this effects the player base - add a map builder and have people vote on community made maps - super easy solution for bringing in new maps and getting the community more involved.

I mean you've gotta remember: Bungie never WANTED pvp in the first place. Even originally it was Activision's idea.

@AscendantNomad

3 жыл бұрын

I heard they never wanted it in Halo too

"Call of Duty has AMericans vs whoever they're trying take oil from next." God damn.

This is the first video where u have mentioned exactly how I feel about the state of pvp. How you explained the situation of trials is exactly how I have explained to others in my clan. As a pve main I generally don't like the way pvp player treat casual players. Outside of my friends list I get constantly ridiculed for my low kd. To the point where now I don't even want to go into the pvp for the pinnacle. I'll just wait a week. Pvp is dead the pvp community killed it for want for superiority. Streamers killed it as they focused more on trying to get a 50 bomb rather than looking at the dwindling numbers of the pvp population. I want to play pvp again and one day reach 5500, however with how the community and the lack of sbmm, I just constantly get matched up with sweaty where I cannot enjoy the game anymore

God damn you have such good commentaries and discussions on things - this video exemplifies it. A lot of strong and solid takes and I hope people at Bungie take note, and players of both sides become more understanding as a result!

I stopped caring about destiny a long time ago. There is nothing worth playing for. After you get all the exotics for all 3 classes there is nothing to do. The loot is boring and has no effect on your game play other than looks. Damage numbers are static based on your weapon archetype and you're just looking for perks like kill clip to get a small bonus. And for pvp there is absolutely nothing to justify the tilt and rage inducing experience. At this point I'm just here for ascended nomad's smooth and soothing voice

Haven’t even checked out the rest of your channel and love it already, might binge from newest and turn on notifications (like I haven’t already) keep up the outstanding work! 💪

As an Experienced Raider and Lore Reader and Explorer it saddens me that my brothers in the PVP scene have been neglected so much. I can count myself as a fair fighter usually restricted because of my PC but find myself sometimes having lots of fun in the Crucible.We stand united as one to end your suffering. Salvation is to come soon...

PVE player here and I loved the vid bro. So much good stuff in there. I'm sticking around for more. Subbed

Very well spoken👍Here's hoping they hear the message.

From pve players afraid of trying trials or survival... thank you for this...

I stumbled upon this video.. and it hit. So much so, I am leaving this comment which I don't normally do. I come from the side of Pvp where I can honestly say I love it, I hate it. I started playing destiny a little over a year ago. Funny, looking back I came in at a greater time imo. So much has been removed from the Pve side of the game, activities they have not been able to come close to. But I also came in at a better time for Pvp, especially for the newer players, the not so good players, the average players. I myself never played Pvp before Destiny. Being my first run at it, I failed miserably. I was absolute trash. I didn't know enough about it to understand why. So, I made it a point, I spent countless hrs/days/full weekends rotating between Quickplay and Comp. I wanted to get better, I wanted to be badass or at least average badass lol. But that was back when SBMM was a thing, even half a thing. I could play against people closer to my level or a couple above my level. It helped me improve over time, it allowed me to still have fun playing. This was a good thing imo. Beyond Light came, and that all went to shit. The progress I was making just got demolished. I was suddenly matching with 10's in a lobby, sweaty, GOOD players. I couldn't even stand up, it was a joke. It crushes that average badass dream, it crushes you having fun, it makes you look like an ass on the scoreboard. Not to mention how Toxic this community is. I have never played a game filled with so many assholes. Are they like this in real life? or use a video game to be cool cause they really just suck? The hate mail telling me to kill myself or whatever other dumb shit they come up with because we are playing a VIDEO GAME?? lol its sad man. There is no team in this community or care in the pvp world for that average dude. They just shit all over you and then whine when we stop playing the playlist cause they start getting shit on by someone better, The teabagging (why do they teabag when they suck too? lol) It became this toxic cesspool of "look how cool i am guys" The whole experience just began to suck. So what happened? I dipped out. I gave up. I started only playing when I had to, whether it be Pinnacles, a quest or I wanted some IB shit that week. Why would I want to spend my time in a lobby that is just a kill lobby basically. I'm not farming Mountaintop kills. We as average players do care. I know I do, I would love to go back to grinding the Pvp side just as hard as the Pve side (which is also suffering immensely imo.) But they need to make it more inclusive and welcoming to more than just the top percent. I am in discords/social media and I hear a lot of people talking this narrative. I don't think we have a big enough voice though because we aren't the top at skill. I would love to go in Trials and earn my loot like everyone else, but if I am a 5 put me against other 5's or 5-7's. Not 10's and 20's. So we avoid it, we pay for recovs and the rest is history. Sorry for the rant, it is just a topic I have put a lot of time and thought into. PS. they need to take care of a lot of the OP cheesy bullshit used in the game mode as well. I think the top and average players can all agree there. It got beyond stupid, and now it's kind of just outta control. Thanks for listening. Loved the video!

I couldn’t agree more with your analysis. I have been a solo player for the most time, since D1 and has became harder and harder to be a solo pvp player, despite the love I have for this game you point precisely the feeling that is predominantly: I am tired

I know we've talked about the "we haven't had a new crucible map in 600+ days" topic for well over a million times now but I honestly would be completely okay if I bungie just brought back 5 destiny 1 maps. Like I wouldn't mind at all if they remaster some D1 maps and bring them back because at least it's SOMETHING. Whether it's a feeling of nostalgia or just a fresh new thing to look at.

Loving this topic and discussion. More incentives is definitely worth looking into.

I'm sort of a new player on PvP. I tried many times to get on board, but I got steamrolled every time. That changed when I found content creators like PattyCakes, CoolGuy, and of course, you. Your videos have been such a big motivation for me. Now, every day, I try to lane next to cover, apply the 2 sec. rule, and train my game senses (using my Outbreak Perfected). TL;DR, thanks to you and other content creators I've found joy in sucking a little less, every day, in PvP. Hope my story helps you realize that not everything is negativity in the PvP community. Thank you, and keep up the good work!

One of the changes I didn't hear you mention was the removal of SBMM from most of the crucible playlists in Season of Arrivals. That greatly (and negatively) impacted developing players at my level. Crucible/Trials needs players like me in it though but there isn't any reason for us to be there. "Here's a bit of loot, go get farmed". Your editor is right about the lack of events. I loved Crimson Doubles. I looked forward to it every year. It was the time when I got to play with one of my best friends in the game, just the two of us, working together. I'm sad it's gone.

I just want new, bigger maps. Maps where we can use sparrows to get around, that both long range areas and short range areas. Basically maps where player can experiment with other builds besides the meta. The current maps heavily favor the meta because of how small and cramped they are

PvE player here; amazing video! I never realized how absolutely horrendous the state of PvP was. I always saw it as “Alright, time to play 3 matches to get my pinnacle,” or “Time to jump off a cliff 10 times to hopefully get a good roll.” And sure, I’ve had fun on occasion getting a good team from LFG or having a clan night with PvP players, but nowhere near as much fun as blasting through a GM Nightfall with my friends.

I've never thought about that, but simply the idea of giving either team an identity in a crucible match with game modes with actual objectives would really improve the game

PvE Player here. First, I must state that I don't play D2 as much as I used to, not to the fault of the devs., but because... life. That being said, I am maybe below average skill in PvP. I used to really enjoy PvP in D1, but D2 PvP is a completely different animal and I am not "qualified" to even attempt to make a proper comparison or thesis as to why I don't enjoy PvP in D2 the same way. One point you made really stuck out to me though. In D1 I think the most fun I ever had in Trials of Osiris was during a Halloween Event where the radar was disabled. I remember a ton of people complaining about it and possibly was even controversial; but that event was a ton of fun and surprisingly enabled a bunch of us to reach flawless for the first time. It'd be interesting to see some variation of PvE elements such as that no-radar example make it into D2 PvP. Also, if it already has been and I missed or didn't realize it because I don't get to play as often as I did in D1, my apologies. Hope this helps further the conversation. Thanks for reading.