Nel is such a good prosecutor. I think Pistorius will get life. For people who like crime like me, watching this trial is a real treat. Thank you SABC.

Some times My Lady is so still that I think my screen is frozen.

This guy is the best....Thumbs up would like to see Gerrie Nel get his own TV show!

@AuthorLLaurence

10 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is too bad there was not a Mr. Nell like attorney in the OJ case as he would not have walked away with a double murder.

@JamesRossMusicdotcom

10 жыл бұрын

10-4... I wish that we just clone this fellow and bring him state side!

@Ettibridget

2 жыл бұрын

Or he could be on the Dr. Phil Show for a start.

Roux catchphrase "He may be mental, but he's paying my rental"

I never realized how intelligent lawyers were... i have been following this drama ... koolest thing on youtube ...

Gerry Nell is brilliant! I love his style. I'm also enjoying the SF court system and mannerisms of court personnel. Makes so much sense when compared to the American justice system.

Brilliant, Mr. Nel., absolutely brilliant

First time I've seen June Steenkamp smile! Keep up the good work Nel!

Is this psychiatrist well paid by the defense? She is both saying OP has an anxiety disorder and yet not ill. He can't be seriously diagnosed by 2 interwiews. OP on "Larry King Now", he showed no sign of anxiety- on the contrary. But being accused of murder and 25 years in prison would create anxiety to most people. The prosecution should have an impartial psychiatric evaluation as well. They might find his disorder is not anxiety but narcissisme.

thanks guys catch you all 2moro

I think roux called the psychiatrist as a witness to state that OP by having chronic GAD would overreact to the sound of the bathroom window opening/closing compared to a person without GAD. Thus making Op's version-story more probable

@jhartdesign

10 жыл бұрын

I think Mr. Pistorius, according to the information provided in this trial proves that he suffers from anxiety and lives in denial when it comes to facing his fears and facing reality. He planned to kill his girl friend and now regrets it because he lost his temper and could not control his anger and this exactly what the trial should unveil in the days ahead.

Absolutely correct application by Nel. The court must now form a view whether this GAD diagnosis is relevant to the crime or not. Clear cut choice. Fully responsible for his actions. Or not. Big risk for the judge to turn it down because if she find him innocent on the basis of his psychiatric disorder then he should have been assessed in the proper way - grounds for mistrial application. But if she find him guilty then it could be argued she did not take into account his diagnosis when reaching a view about the credibility of his story - grounds for appeal. Perhaps she'll reject it but in the process have made up her mind it's an excuse for his actions - and leave the appeal court to refer him for observation if he so wish after going to jail.

hello, please can somebody send me a link (or tell what part is it) to a "episode" where reeva´s message and their relationship problems was mentioned ? thank you

NOW the reason for all of Mr. Nel's argument is because of what Mr. Roux has done by putting the Dr. on the stand at this late stage in the trial. Mr. Roux has, (what is called here in the US), "OPENED THE DOOR" I don't think it was a good idea to put the Dr. on because now Nel can "explore" the fact that Pistorious has always been a very self-assured, aggressive type of person not this traumatized, injured guy with some sort of a disorder all his life like Roux NOW is trying to display him as.

44:40 OP shakes his head, his shitting himself

@Jessica, was thinking the same thing, but was is Roux then trying so hard not to have OP evaluated? if it would benefit OP.

very interesting tactic being employed by Nel here. i'm not sure i fully grasp it. is he merely eliminating a possible issue for appeal or is it a ploy to get the defense to argue against their own psychiatric witness?

Another aspect to this is seeing that oscar Pistorius is current Y taking medication for a depressive disorder, wouldn't the effects of the medication lessen the symptoms of generalised anxiety disorder? Therefore , the process cannot be valid or accurate?

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

Yeah i also wanna know how you can discount "being on trial" as one of the possible causes of presenting with very elevated anxiety.

@RoundOneBoxing

10 жыл бұрын

I don't discount it, it's obvious that being on trial would elevate OPs anxiety levels, that doesn't suggest he didn't have a generalised anxiety disorder before hand though....

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

spurs1991 I agree. But if the finding becomes pivotal to the case at all, it need more than a couple of consultations with the confounding factor of the ongoing trial. Nel already found few weaknesses in the report which she had to acknowledge. Indeed, she only met him on May 2nd!! So bit of an ask to get the complete picture.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

***** BTW Daniel King I responded to some of your 2000 word essay.... waiting for a reply

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 yeah i replied - you asked about motive which provoke a long piece of writing on my (speculative) thoughts about that. So it's even longer tbh haha. Take a week or something to get back, there is no rush and i need to work! ;)

Anyone know where Oldwage went - is he hiding under the table again?

@nickharris9761

10 жыл бұрын

30 days - yes , they'll sure find Narcissistic Personality Disorder. See they didnt prove he can scream like a woman. Michelle Burger , Johnson and the Stipps must be thinking when is this man going to get justice.

Real psychiatrists will uncover such gems as rage and jealousy and irresponsibility, This is why Roux is crying.

@Mary-NY

10 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Roux trying to pull a fast one that just may backfire on him. From what I have read prison is better than being referred. I also find it's only fair, the defense opened the door and the state should be allowed independent testing by psychological testing. Get ready to hear about him being anti social, a borderline personality and true narcissism!

Why does Roux not want Oscar to be observed? Is he scared the truth might come out, start thinking all this throwing up on court is all an act leading to this.

@abeck9289

10 жыл бұрын

Ever been to a psychiatric ward? Everything I ever got told, I'd go anywhere but not there

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

AJ Bec Be careful what you wish for because you might just get it.

@darkmatrix80

10 жыл бұрын

because real psychiatrists will uncover other stuff like rage and jealousy and irresponsibility.

@christogrobbelaar6898

10 жыл бұрын

He is no going for observation, but Roux already asked if he maybe an out patient. I believe they must sober him up before doing the observation

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

Roux's argument was that by forcing his client to go for a psychiatric evaluation of 30 days in a mental hospital at this point in time, before he had brought his next witness to the court, was prejudicial to his case. In other words, he felt he was being silenced, stymied, by what he considered to be a premature request. He had another witness, a professional mental health person, who was going to report further on the nature of Oscar's disability and how it would logically precipitate a preference for the fight option instead of the flight option in a scenario of fear and threat to personal safety. He wanted this witness brought to the court first, and then he said, he would be OK with the court's ordering his client for the 30 days evaluation, if that was Masipa's decision to so do.

Great by Mr Nel

In terms of the argument about not being referred because Pistorius didn't have a delusion that the window was being opened, because we know for a fact that the window was open, that - again - only works if the entirety of Pistorius' version of events is taken as truth. It's entirely possible that, even on his version of events, he could have had a delusion that the window was being opened... because although it was open, we don't know *when* it was opened... it's simply his version of events that Reeva opened it. We have no proof of this, just his testimony that he heard the window open... which could well have been a delusion if he suffers from such serious GAD. And to take it even further, *if* his version of events is to be believed... the window *must* have already been open - even slightly - for him to think intruders could gain access to the bathroom without breaking the window. And for another point, Dr. Vorster says she didn't find any evidence of paranoia, and that's why she doesn't think he should be referred (because he isn't delusional). Yet his anxiety made him be "over-the-top" with his security measures, which surely equates to paranoia about being burgled... so which is it? either he is or he isn't.

Right on about everything Chris I couldn't agree more. Too many things unanswered. I am so glad that a evaluation from the state is being done. At first he blamed the police for stealing his watch yet on the stand he said nothing about it.. He blames everyone else EXCEPT himself

BRAVO MR NEL BRAVO

Go Gerrie !

How does Oscar P sit in the court everyday with full concentration and attention on every word Mr Nel expresses and then write notes and passes them to his defence team.. What happened to his ''anxiety'' or mental illness? or does his ''anxiety only raise when he doesn't like something and gets angry? like when he got stopped by the police, he didn't like the police officers way and shot through the sun roof and the same kind of incident in the restaurant. If this murder is found mentally unstable then it is obvious that all the murders of the world are all mentally unstable or ill. Or otherwise why would they KILL ? ?

@sofiabukhari1

10 жыл бұрын

Pamela Valemont Mental illness'' ?? or some psychotic' evil disorder !!!!

The forensic psychiatrists testimony was important for the defence and she held out well. If what she is saying is correct and I see no reason why it is not, then He may get a lesser sentence because of this. That is why Nell is trying to refer.

Hi! anyone knows where todays video Wednesday May 14th is? I know the Judge order him to have a mental evaluation, but was this not showed live? I can not find it anywhere..thanks! The fact that he is going as an out patient is not fair, I beiieve...

This matter of psychiatric evaluation should have been brought up before the trial began and not so late in this trail. This late in the trail just makes it look like the defense is not going well for the accused and by doing this it is trying to soften the jury and possibly the outcome of this trial.

Gerrie Nel, is one of a kind. I would not want to be found guilty in his court. One important point that strikes me as strange when Oscar Pistorius pleads not guilty because he shot his girl friend in the bathroom mistaken her with an intruder. If Pistorius was in fact fearful for his life and the life of his girl friend he should have: hired a personal body guard, brought his dogs inside his house, established a camera surveillance system to monitor the exterior as well the interior of his residence. Changed the bedroom door into a metal door with a secret code to unlock and lock it at bedtime and connected his alarm system to the security or police responsible for the safety of the compound he lived in. I think Mr. Pistorius, according to the information provided in this trial proves that he suffers from anxiety and lives in denial when it comes to facing his fears and facing reality. He planned to kill his girl friend and now regrets it because he lost his temper and could not control his anger and this exactly what the trial should unveil in the days ahead.

OP must be held accountable for his actions. Its the sentence(and he must be sentenced) that needs debating. Not convinced he is a cold bloodied killer but he shot through that door to kill someone...

Can someone answer a question? If the judge refers him does it mean he would go in to a mental facility for 30 days???

I agree Trudy

"Gambling Disorder" is also in the doctor's handbook! No one is responsible for anything anymore!

I agree with you.Oscar never called 911 the Doctor did. His daughter testified in court that her father called 911. Oscar as you said was busy calling other people and when the security people called him he said everything was ok. Shooting Reeva as we have all found out everything was not ok so, what was he trying to hide. He should have left Reeva in the bathroom and not moved her he contaminated the scene before any police got there. And another fishy fact is when they asked for identification of the deceased it was Oscar who went for the purse upstairs. IF he was so devastated about shooting Reeva how could he think straight he's full of anxiety isn't he?.

@chriscaine7689

10 жыл бұрын

Yes, these factors stick out like a sore thumb. He moved her, why? He called everyone except emergency services, yet he loved her and was devistated, why? He was allowed to go upstairs alone, why? His sister was allowed to collect things including a watch, why?? Reevas phone cant be unlocked, why? I dont beleive with all this technology today it cannot be unlocked Frank the houseboy was nver called, why? Too many inconsistences here, the judge must send him down surely

Is it just by coincidence that he's sitting there in that "please feel sorry for me and my GAD" almost foetal position - given the theme of the current examination?....Yeah, didn't think so.

His defense team should theselves be arguing for the referral if they have any conviction in their own case being true. It would increase his chance to be cleared of the crime...

For those of you who haven't heard the latest news on Oscar's mental health evaluation process: www.news24.com/Live/SouthAfrica/OscarPistorius/Everything-you-need-to-know-about-Oscar-Pistoriuss-psychiatric-analysis-20140520

I know quite alot about GAD...somebody who has a heightened fear of something will do their utmost to avoid that situation altogether. GAD sufferers have an extremely sensitive fight or flight mechanism they will do anything to remove themselves from the threatening situation rather than confront it. I think in O.P's case he must have suffered trauma through losing his legs and having to adapt to this and losing his mother at such a young age must have had an affect aswell. Also with his increasing fame and the ever present possibility of being attacked because S.A seems to be a violent place to live I can understand him having a certain level of anxiety. HOWEVER what goes against everything I know about GAD is that O.P actually went into the Bathroom and went up to the toilet door and shot through it, he did not know what was on the other side of that door and for all he knew (IF he believed their was an Intruder) what weapons the supposed intruder might have had. Somebody in my experience of GAD would have stood at the bedroom end of the hallway and just pointed the gun at the Bathroom door area and screamed for the intruder to remove themselves they would not put themselves into the confrontational position they would allow the intruder to make the decision of either climbing back out of the bathroom window or coming through the bathroom door whereby you would just shoot....BUT A GAD SUFFERER WOULD NEVER EVER ENTER THE DANGER ZONE!!!..this and the security failings at O.P's house and bringing in this Psychiatrist at this time points without doubt that this is all a smokescreen!!!.

@Mary-NY

10 жыл бұрын

Yes he did lose his legs at a young age, which means he had no clue any other way of life. I have seen him on talk shows talking about his childhood, he was raised to feel normal. He also made statements during trial that he was not a coward he would go toward the danger to protect himself and Reeva. This is a man with a history of tantrums and a confrontational man as well. So the loss of his legs doesn't play into anything for me, he grew up that way, it's normal for him. I do agree with you on GAD, they always take flight. How about Reeva, was she scared and anxious and she was the one who took flight? I say YES. I hope he is referred, I will bet you the unbiased psych doctors will give a battery of tests that will show a borderline personality with narcissism. I don't understand how this court operates where they are able to bring in experts that the state is unaware of. The state should be able to have their own Psych doctors test him.

@195Bucks

10 жыл бұрын

mrip75 Well now he has been referred let's hope that they do come up with the right diagnosis, i'm leaning with you on the borderline personality with narcissism...I think it is very probable that he has this with some anxiety thrown in for good measure. Narcissism though is not easy to diagnose, somebody like O.P might be clever enough to conceal this trait in the short-term especially over just 30 days, and he knows that depending on the results of these tests if they come back how he wants them to then he could be looking at just 10 years instead of 25 years so he will go all out to prove he suffers with GAD. I bet in the last two days O.P has just been constantly reading up on GAD so he can blag his way through the tests and if he has Narcissistic tendencies he might just be able to do that!. The Prosecution and Defense should both have to pick a suitable Psych doctor, one that they both agree on...I don't understand neither how one party can just say 'this is who we are bringing in!' without permission from both the Court and the opposition??...this seems to me that the results could be extremely biased in favor of the side that has picked them as you have said,...doesn't seem fair to me!.

My Baloney has a first name, it's O-S-C-A-R

This was suppose to be a 3 week trial, more like 3 years!

We now know alot about Nel and Roux last argument for the future

In the United States we have a "Son of Sam" law which does not allow a convicted criminal to profit in any way from the crime of which one is convicted. Does anyone know if a similar law is is in existence in SA?

@nunuheroberto9913

2 жыл бұрын

We have POCA in Namibia

Absolutely brilliant move on behalf of Nel! The defense has opened the door to an independent psychiatric evaluation of OP. This cannot fair well for the defense on any level.

he needs a miracle if he gonna avoid jail

Hope Dr Vorster never goes to Cheltenham when it's pissing down.

But.....we can have the commercials :(

Maybe there was a reason behind OP moving Reevas' body from the bathroom. He tampered with the crime scene. All the guessing of where she may have been falling or leaning or sitting. If her body had been left alone where it was the picture would have been clear ie: she feared for her life, you don't get hit by a bullet and Not make a sound you Scream Bloody Murder and she did on that fateful night. He screamed to try and cover her screams. Murder is Murder and he has to pay for what he did.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

He carried her to take her to hospital. she was still breathing.

@Mary-NY

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 There is no way she was breathing after that fatal shot to the head! A lot of time passed while OP says he was holding her in the bathroom, he should have called 911 asap, she was long dead before he carried her downstairs.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

He knocked down the door at 3:17. He held Reeva. Then he han to get his phone and the first phone call was at 3:19:03 to Mr Stander to help him carry Reeva. The second phone call was to 911 Netcare at 3:20:05 and they told him not to wait for the ambulance and take Reeva to the hospital.

25:22 GO Me'Lady! Glad y'all payin attention

hour 1:14:00 "but you need a second leg".......(." no offence meant".)...."none taken".

Curious that Roux find himself arguing that Dr. Vorster's evidence has "no substance" or "proper grounds"...lol

Nel may be trying to ensure that an appeal on mental incapacity cannot be brought, but a 30 day delay may well change the defence case to one of diminished responsibility based on this alleged "illness" and effectively get him off of the murder charge, as they are clearly losing at the moment, and this could give them a way out. Nel's insistence on OP being evaluated for mental illness leads me to wonder whether Nel and Roux have decided a deal between them which will allow OP a few years being cared for in a mental hospital and then released, rather than a life sentence in a prison. Not knowing how SA law works, I would just assume that if the prosecution can have him evaluated, so can the defence call an evaluation for their case as well.

@Jessica15747

10 жыл бұрын

Charlie Percival What's your take then? Why would the prosecution who appear to have everything on their side press for an evaluation which could lose them a murder charge. Not that I think they have any evidence to prove he knew it was her in the bathroom, no more than the defence have any evidence to prove he thought it was an intruder. Some heard screams, others didn't. Who is right, who is wrong? They may be swearing to tell the truth, but are they?? I agree with Car1234oppinions.

This is utter crap! Both parties prepard more than a year for this trial and we are two months in. Now this insanity crap. Get the fool to a proper prison and Lock him up for 25.

23.20 See Oscar thinking...Duh...What is going on here ??? Ironic isn't it ? He shot and killed the beautiful and loving Reeva like a rat in a closed cubicle...a lawschool graduate and now he is at the mercy of the legal system which totally eludes his intelligence/stupidity...RIP Reeva,...Rooting for Justice for you and your Family and Friends !!!

All the phone records prove that witnesses heard OP screaming, and not Reeva, as the first shots killed Riva at about 3:12, and the second "shots" were the cricket bat at 3:17.

@HaveYouHeardMe

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 You know what you said is NOT true. You just want some POOR UNFORTUNATE SOULS who DON'T understand the case to AGREE with you. YOU are VERY WICKED! Shame on you.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

HaveYouHeard (Shout out to) www.DivinelySuccessful.com www.EconomicalMagazines.com you have not followed the case closely. Listen to the Nhlengethwas testimony who heard a man wail, and at what time they called security ? 3:16. The same time as the Burgers.

@HaveYouHeardMe

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 Many testimonies have gone forth where they heard a WOMAN screaming TERRIBLY and THEN they heard the man scream afterwards. One witness even testified hearing BOTH of them scream at the SAME time.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

The Nhlengethwas lived closer than the Burgers or the Stipps and they did NOT hear a woman scream, they ONLY heard a man. And we know they it was at the SAME TIME, because the all 3 above mentioned witnesses ALL called at exactly the same time at 3:16. So they were all talking about the SAME screams.

Nel is pissed .... he's been one upped and can't handle it :)

very surprised that the word *compulsive or compulsion wasn't used

Talk about the defence trying to move the goalposts is an understatement! Looks like the defence are trying to ring the changes with Pistorius's defences, all in place and ready to use on appeal. If needed.

@tina- you clearly havent followed the case, that whole argument was blown out of the water. Dixon or Mangena - its pretty clear whose testimony carries more weight. Peace.

the idea that reeva did not scream after the first shot, is a BIG S!

why would Roux needs a 10 minute adjournment? they just came back from a tea break 5 minutes ago...

On April 9th, session 5, 41:16 - 41:21 OP testified, "THEY DIDN'T KNOW THE FAN WAS PART OF WHERE THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED." Evidence from Oscar Pistorius that the "ACCIDENT" episode started in the BEDROOM. The statement happened so quickly Mr. Nel didn't catch or question it.

She knows precisely on who the onus lies. She was bringing Nel in - who thought he had presented a perfect application. She's reminding Nel that the onus is not on her or him in this matter - but on the defence.

OH BOY! The DEFENSE is HELPING the PROSECUTOR AGAIN! written 5/13/14 (8:26 am) I will have to comment on this more in a little bit but I'm SMH! Umph! Umph! Umph!

Unless I am missing something, and he is a wily, clever manipulator and strategist, Barry Roux had been a completely inept defence for Oscar Pistorius. He has sat there time and time again, and seemingly failed to pick up on issues to which he could have vehemently objected. Now we have the spectacle of the Prosecution coming to the rescue of the accused and asking for Pistorius to be further psychiatrically assessed and the court having to wait on the outcome of that assessment. He has acted as adviser to both Masipa and Roux, not to mention Pistorius. What on earth did Roux think he was doing, waiting until the last moment of the trial to have a forensic psychiatrist testifying for the defence? The accused has been vomiting and exhibiting clear symptoms of current psychiatric illness. This could have been occasioned by the shocking death of Reeva, and the vitally important part he played in it, given he was the one who killed her. But we also have clear evidence of GAD prior to the killing of Reeva, the prime example : when he admittedly went into combat mode because of his washing machine! Given the fact that he had a broken window downstairs, not yet replaced, plus security beams deactivated ( i.e. out of action) outside his bedroom, ensuite and bathroom where the killing occurred, apt to heighten his GAD, Roux was very remiss not to have offered a different defence, one of diminished responsibility due to Oscar's GAD affliction. He did not even think to bring in Merryll Vorster until the very end. Nel has been doing Pistorius a favour, quite possibly because he is a man of principle. Winning at all costs is not his style. Clearly justice is more important to him. Also, he no doubt wants to avoid a lengthy appeal process. He might have been paid handsomely for that. Is he therefore motivated out of concern for the accused and Reeva's family? I think there is a distinct possibility of that being applicable. Good on you Nel, you're a gentleman and a scholar!

@bouncyshak

10 жыл бұрын

Roux played a dirty tactic bringing her in at the last minute, and it backfired. He hoped to add credibility to OP's poor performance on the stand and believed Nel might let it slide at this late stage in the trial, but you're very right that Nel has no option but to refer OP once this was raised in order to cover all bases for conviction and sentencing. This massively backfired for Roux, and his desperation at not wanting OP to be further evaluated is "strange" as Milady pointed out yesterday. It suggests Vorster's diagnosis is flimsy and he fears it will unravel with more scrutiny.

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

***** No, I don't think it was a dirty tactic at all. I think Roux has finally woken up to the fact that his client is mentally ill, something he should have cottoned on to from day 1 when he first interviewed Oscar for the job he was to undertake on his behalf. Although Nel has put Oscar through the wringer, he has toned it down a lot lately, long before he decided to ask for this Section 78 intensive psychiatric assessment. At some point in recent history, Nel realized he was going to lose this case for want of a motive. He also realized he was flogging a very near dead horse. I have been watching Reeva's camp and the same is true of them, I believe. Their attitude towards Oscar has visibly changed from day 1 of the trial. Nel has redeemed himself in many eyes, and taken the only possible course open to him. Oscar's family I am sure are grateful to him for forcing the Section 78 through the court. He knows his law intimately, far better than Judge Masipa and Roux combined. That is not to say they are not clever and well seasoned people in the field of law; it is just that Nel has a head for remembering not only the letter of the law, but also precedent, chapter and verse, and that is the kind of brain that wins cases over and over again, against all the odds. A retentive memory, perhaps a photographic one. Once he sees something written down, he never forgets it. I think Nel decided it was better to score a conviction against a mentally ill man, whom the Judge would go easy on in sentencing, than to lose his case entirely. He still gets the notch in his belt and saves face in doing so. He also I think has a heart, ethics and a conscience, three things lacking in many who practise law in this day and age. Some skeptics might think Roux and Nel sat down over a cup of Rooibos and sorted this one out between them.

@bouncyshak

10 жыл бұрын

Pamela Valemont I don't agree at all, but you put your points across very well and I appreciate that. I think OP has a personality disorder, but not a mental illness - they are different, particularly in the eyes of the law. It's not for us to decide at the end of the day, so I won't regale you with my theories. Thanks for your comment.

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

***** Thanks for your comments. I understood what transpired as such: I think as far as the law is concerned, the definition Nel was coming up with ( read out to the court) was that in the eyes of the law the following two are one and the same. (Psychiatrically diagnosed) Generalized Anxiety Disorder = mental illness - to them in a court of law. Dr. Vorster was saying that it should rightly impact on sentencing, that is, it should be taken into account, depending on the facts of the case. If the facts of the case are as the defendant has stated; that is, he has not had delusions about the bathroom window being opened, and the toilet door locked, then his condition, namely GAP, should still be taken into account, as well as his disability and the resultant manifestation of the fight or flight syndrome that would come into play in a crisis; that is, he would stay and fight, given flight was not an option for him. She says he is not delusional or paranoid; so if his version of events seems intact; ( as Roux says) that is, the facts are there as he has stated,i.e.the bathroom window was opened after it had been closed earlier, and the bathroom door was shut - then clearly we have good reason to believe he may be telling the truth. We also have good reason to believe, given her testimony, that what might have seemed excessive jumping-to-wrong-conclusions behaviour under the circumstances, can be accepted and readily understood in the light of the two applicable factors above: namely GAD and the fight or flight syndrome option due to his disability.

@foxxeeyy

10 жыл бұрын

Beautifully put, Pamela. The manner in which this case has been adjudicated would be laughable, if not so serious for this poor man. The judge asks Nel ''Who has the onus?'' She doesn't know? In a Democratic S. A., isn't the onus entirely on the Prosecution to present a case that proves ''beyond a reasonable doubt'' the guilt of the Accused? And, in this case, the judge makes the determination as to the guilt or innocence of the Accused. Yes, Roux may have failed to thoroughly vet Oscar's psychological state of mind but the psychiatrist was an excellent witness FOR THE DEFENSE' case. This is where the psychology of the legal mind and the Accused's psychiatric soundness of mind come into conflict all the time. I make the point of the psychology of lawyers collectively, particularly the prosecutor, and mental health professionals collectively. They come from very different worldviews. And shame on South Africans who have been all too quick to convict Oscar Pistorius. I have not believed for one moment that he wantonly murdered Reeva. Whether his emotional response is because he loved her, or that his guilt is so acute that he can't bear the fact that he murdered someone or a combination of both, will probably never be known. There can be no doubt that this man is hyper-vigilant on every physical threat around him because of his physical limitations.

Mr Nel saw through the defense future plan, now he want to clean out any existing doubt. The fact that Mr Roux was arguing about THE REFFERAL, is making me think twice about the defense Doctor result on OP, coz on the other hand, the refferal can also help the defense case if this is positive.That was Mr Roux fault to bring the Doctor at a late stage, the state should have done it before. BIG UP Mr Nel

Just read this..." But Audrey Botha also knew him as the hotheaded youth her husband had arrested for assault in 2009, after he had been accused of slamming a door so hard on a female guest at one of his parties that it caused severe injuries. (Pistorius denied the allegation, and the charge was dropped.)" Full article: www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

Disability or a anxiety is not an excuse to kill a human being!! Everyone goes through anxiety in life, that does not mean that we all go and kill somebody or shoot and attack somebody after hearing just a window or a door noise!! All drama OP

The downside to gambling is that there is the possibility that you might lose the bet! Roux putting this witness on so late in the game backfired, and NOW he wants to take back the bet. He rolled the dice, lost, and doesn't want to pay the casino! I believe the judge will refer OP.

@AuthorLLaurence

10 жыл бұрын

A very good analogy! I think Roux now has to fight having an evaluation done as appointed psychiatrists would have to be given knowledge of the State's version as well, which Dr. Foster did not have to take into consideration. Roux may not have anticipated Sherlock Holmes I mean Mr. Nell asking for an evaluation and thought that Oscar could be given a lighter sentence with the GAD tossed into the equation.

In my point of view....Miss Reeva ddnt deserve wat happened to her but de same goes for Mr Pistorius ....i wonder how de man sleeps at nyt coz frm what i see hez livin in his worse nyt mare.....

I just think Nell is playing it safe that's all. He is being pro-active and trying to close all the loop holes so that B R and OP may not say that OP was mentally disturbed at the time of the incident.

mr.nail is the Einstein in cort lorry on this balls

OP will not be referred. It is very clear from the law being cited that there is no basis to do so. The judge will not be able to ignore the law.

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

He said he was unconscious while firing and cannot blame himself for opening fire because it was an emotional reaction - which is now supported by a psychiatric diagnosis. Hence, reducing his criminal responsibility significantly ...perhaps completely.

@jamc666

10 жыл бұрын

***** yep, he should've pleaded insanity from the first second on.

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

jamc666 Yeah except they'd observe him and reject it lol

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

***** "REAL nutcases?" But Alexia, this man has killed a woman. He may be very seriously mentally ill indeed. That's the whole point. That is why Nel has insisted he be referred for evaluation. The odds are actually high that he will qualify as having a serious mental illness, serious enough to have got him before the court on a murder charge for behaving in a manner no normal person would under the same circumstances. He may not look like you think a REAL nutcase would look. There have been any number of examples around the world of very handsome young men being very mentally ill indeed. Good looks, wealth, are no protector of the vulnerable. Mental illness can reach out and grab anyone. Given the fertile circumstances to be found in Oscar's life, this eventuality was distinctly possible. It really should surprise no one.

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

***** Yes, they would have to expand that definition quite a bit I would think. I am wondering whether he has more than GAD and whether maybe it had even reached the delusion stage, which Vorster didn't seem to think it had. But she intimated that Oscar's mother definitely had reached that stage. So, it would not make him unfit to plead, but it could very much count in his defence, that is, to corroborate his version of events. It could definitely mean the difference between a murder finding and a conviction of culpable homicide. I see the case going the latter way now. Even given definite diagnosis of affliction with GAD, it could never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt now that he murdered Reeva. An affliction like GAD verifies his version of events to the letter, in that such behaviour is typified by it. Nel knows this of course, and that is why he has thrown his hands up and demanded further evaluation. If the diagnosis comes back as is or a finding is returned that Oscar is more severely mentally ill than Vorster assessed him, then either way, the show is over for Nel, the way I see it. Culpable homicide is the only verdict they can bring now. Even that will be impacted on by the severity of his condition, so Masipa will go easier on him because of it. She may even order hospitalization and/or treatment in place of any kind of sentence being handed down upon him. She could, in light of the diagnosis, even acquit him of culpable homicide. It will all depend on what is finally assessed as the severity or not of the condition.

1:27:06 Roux knows he messed up

Roux is shouting at Milady by the end - getting desperate

These cases can and do go on for years in the appeal courts and this will be no different. The defence will trawl all over the court proceedings looking for legal technicalities to help their cause. This is probably the reason why Mr Roux is _apparently_ so upset about the referral at this stage, it closes down options and other possible defences at a later date, especially on appeal.

Who said the window was not open all the time...? that could be delusional, the fact that the window was open when he shoot Reeva, does not mean it was closed before ...Roux is not very smart...the fact that he heard the bathroom door close and then again heard like it was being opened, and he then fired 4 times is delusional too...

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

No evidence of hallucination. He heard the window open and the window was open. He heard the door slam closed, and the door was closed. no evidence of hallucination.

the impression one gets from this trial in general and this latest/third/desperate/last minute attempt at a credible defence in particular is that SA law is not so much an ass as a donkey derby

I am sorry i didn't hear that. I thought the security or the Doctor from next door called 911. I always admired Oscar for his dedication but something is fishy on his version of events. I watch this case everyday as I did with O.J Simpson. If the defense has nothing to hide and believes in the Doctors outcome then OP should be retested, if the outcome is the same then maybe he did over react. It's a very interesting case.

Why is Nel relying on that part of the law that refers to "mental illness" and not the catch-all "any other reason?" That would seem to be a good ground to refer OP. And I'm still left with - how is Vorster's testimony relevant unless the defense wants OP's mental state to be an issue?

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Roux has no logical argument. He tasked a psychiatrist to evaluate factors in support to Pistorius' version. And they've gone far too far - paving the way for a complete acquittal & now acting butt-hurt when Nel ask for the proper evaluation to take place (not just 2 consultations in the past fortnight). In the process showing the defense has no genuine conviction in Pistorius' story either.

Why would they do a report on the sounds of the Cricket bat hitting the door from out side? why not do it correctly from inside of a house with a surrounding homes and community, trees, etc? All wrong! Could not possible be correct!

£20 says that whatever OP is scribbling will one day find its way to a publisher. "Oscar: My Courtroom Diaries." A more cruel title might be 'Retch-a-sketch.'

@islaarundel3741

10 жыл бұрын

To be honest, Jack, I don't think he's a psychopath and I don't think he intended to kill her, but I do agree with you that his ship sailed when he decided to lie in his evidence. Contesting the gun charges was ridiculous (another instance where his team have seriously led him astray) and attempting to concoct a version where Reeva's welfare was paramount to him, rather than his own, was imho the basis for the lies he told. His only chance, if he were intent on testifying, would've been to tell the unvarnished truth. That he was reckless, careless, thoughtless and throw himself on the mercy of the court. I do believe that, like all of us, he's simply a product of his environment and upbringing - and in his case I'm willing to accept that he has a propensity to extreme insecurity and even anxiety. But I think the major problem is that perhaps he's also been cossetted and protected to such a level that somewhere along the line he started to believe what he must have been told repeatedly "You can do anything, Oscar." That's understandable, right? I'd say he has a distorted view of what he *may* do. Maybe he interpreted 'can' as 'may.' He's capable of anything, but it seems like he's grown into an adult who thinks this gives him a license to do pretty much what he wants. He's special, after all. He's always been special in some way or another. He's the blade runner - conventional rules need not apply. I think that's a big part of his personality that the good doctor never touched on. Narcissism. Again, understandable given that (through no initial fault of his own) he has always been the centre of attention. It's not surprising that Oscar Pistorius is then the centre of his own attention, his own world, is it? I have some sympathy because I think he's enduring a severity of backlash here because so many people felt they were obliged, obligated (whatever the right word is) to show him unqualified support. That his background and courage and struggles demanded 100% enthusiasm and plaudits. Many people may have felt they had no choice but to accept him as the marketed, politically correct hero. You know what I mean? So now, given his fall from grace, there's a backlash that you'd have to admit is markedly emotional and often vitrolic. I've seen comments made about him that rival any hatred levelled at OJ Simpson, for instance. And in Simpson's case I think we can all agree he was clearly guilty of a hideous, cold-blooded, violent and premeditated double murder. If he were an ordinary athlete, ordinary athletic hero, able-bodied hero... would the backlash be this severe? Seriously, it's worth thinking about. When people feel they've been railroaded into cheerleading someone and showing them goodwill, I guess they feel the payback needs to be made with interest. It's not a pretty picture of humanity, but we're not a pretty species, after all. Anyway, I'm certainly not excusing him for recklessly killing Reeva Steenkamp. All I'm saying is that he perhaps hasn't earned quite the same level of venom that we'd usually direct at Ted Bundy types. He should be found guilty of culpable homicide and I can't see how he can avoid a custodial sentence. It's a tragedy from all angles, really...

@islaarundel3741

10 жыл бұрын

Pesky work and everyday life getting in the way of donning imaginary robes and playing m'lady from your computer chair. It's a crime, isn't it? ;) I feel you, it's taken me a while to catch up on all the recent testimony... and I kept falling asleep during Mr. Wolmerans' evidence. I'm guessing we're all going to be twiddling our thumbs for a long while during the evaluation, so plenty of time to catch anything you've missed. I've no idea how the evaluation process works - I'm a bit taken aback that the word 'outpatient' was thrown out there so quickly. I'd have thought that if a condition was of the alleged severity required to meet the terms of referral within the act, then the evaluation would have to be conducted over a number of weeks on an in-house, residential level, but hey, what do I know! It's all a bit baffling, really. Seems like Roux planned the mental angle as a last-ditch Hail Mary defence to keep for a possible appeal. I suppose Nel is simply covering all his bases by making sure that any verdict can't be overturned on appeal on the grounds that OP was treated unfairly. I don't envy the judge in reaching that verdict. She'll be damned whatever she does or doesn't do. I don't know about you, but I'm torn in my own mind - on the one hand, I can't see that a custodial sentence achieves much more than revenge - maybe that's the point. Maybe we call it justice as a more civilised word. On the other hand, like you, I've watched Reeva's mother throughout the trial and I can't imagine her pain. I know that if it were my daughter or anyone I loved, I'd probably be quite content to watch him dropped into a lion's enclosure at feeding time. So - if her pain can be at all alleviated by some semblance of retribution, of taking freedom from someone who took a life, then... it's hard to argue with that. It'd be so much easier if we could just see inside his head, eh? Does he have a fully functioning conscience? Does he really just think mainly of himself? Great quote from my favourite play Macbeth, 'there's no art to read the mind's construction in the face.' He can certainly look and sound like an arrogant narcissist, but if there's a conscience under there then he will be tormented every day and night he lives, I imagine. He'll never be free whether he's behind bars or not. Impossible to judge, though... but that's what m'lady will have to try to do. What a poisoned chalice. Hope you're having a nice night too! Think you win in the cool name stakes... :)

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

Isla Arundel Isla, with respect, I think if Vorster had found any evidence of Narcissism she would have been obliged to have included it in her report about the state of his mental health. As Nel read to the court, this is not something that can be judged by the layperson, which is why we have trained professionals to do this for us, and bring their findings in an official report to the court. Given that all such aspects, not just some of them, or one in isolation, have to be taken into consideration by the court in regard to the merits of this case as well as in sentencing, it is not for us to speculate on what might or might not be any mental health problems Oscar is suffering. We have the word of a very well credentialed and experienced witness, namely Professor Vorster. Until we have further evidence, in the shape of the 30 day report from the mental hospital to which Oscar has been referred, we have no alternative but to rely totally on her assessment of Oscar's mental health state. I do agree with you that my opinion is Oscar lied in his evidence to the court in regard to the shooting through the roof incident, and that this was a huge mistake, calling into question his credibility in other areas. I don't know if Roux advised him to do this, or whether this was something Oscar insisted on doing. It did seem to me to be rather far fetched that two witnesses would lie under oath, that is, commit perjury collaboratively, just to take Oscar down for the killing of Reeva. But then, as you have very correctly pointed out, there is no accounting for the backlash of vitriolic hatred that has come Oscar's way in the wake of this tragic act. Rats desert a sinking ship. If the evidence changes, we may yet see those same people scrambling to get back on board, to save face. It's the old story of "nobody knows you when you're down and out." No doubt they were there in swarms to help him spend his hard earned money and bask in his reflected glory.

@PamelaValemont

10 жыл бұрын

Isla Arundel Yes Isla, I too thought he should have been committed to an institution for evaluation. How on earth they can do a proper job just by day visits I don't know, but then, what do we know about such procedures, as you also stated? It's left me wondering......

@islaarundel3741

10 жыл бұрын

Pamela Valemont That's a very fair point, Pamela. I'm sure there were any number of hangers-on who attached themselves to him when his stock was on the up, and no one seems to have made much mention or complaint of any excesses in his behaviour, wild acts of posturing ego etc., when he was a star. Personally I find the very idea of collecting guns and hideous soft-nosed ammunition utterly repellent, but I guess a gun culture is the norm over there, and no one seems to have tried to caution or rein him in before he killed Reeva Steenkamp. To be honest, I wasn't very impressed with Professor Vorster's evidence. Admittedly she was frank about her limited time with Pistorius, but we do have to remember that she was hired and paid (I presume?) by the defence, so presenting her testimony as completely unbiased and academically neutral would be a tad naive, I think. As she admitted to Nel, she had only Pistorius's version to work from, so she started from the position that he told her the absolute truth and was hiding nothing. She did say she 'looked for evidence of paranoia,' but it seems that her brief, if you like, was to put together a sensitive and sympathetic portrayal of the factors which have shaped his character and influenced his behaviour. For instance, she casually mentioned the incident with Mr. Batchelor as having increased his levels of anxiety, but she never followed up on his own part in that - any history of confrontation, threats of violence etc. She made no reference to the gun charges or questioning him about his attitude towards accepting responsibility for wrong-doing in general. She mentioned GAD sufferers as often being controlling individuals, in terms of needing to order everything in their environment, but she never touched on the element of potentially needing to control other people and their behaviour, and we did see at least some evidence of that in the messages Reeva had written to him. She talked about his lack of long-term sexual relationships but framed it only in terms of his loneliness and alleged anxiety, not as an arguably womanising mentality or propensity to treat women as disposable perks of fame. So I do think the overall approach was a heavily slanted one, if you see what I'm getting at. I wouldn't be at all surprised if an independently minded panel presented a very different assessment given adequate time to examine him. I'm still confused as to the motivations of both Nel and Roux in how they approached the issue of the referral. I've heard it suggested that Nel never thought the judge would actually grant it - but I find that hard to believe given his extremely thorough and skilled argument in requesting it. Roux is harder to fathom, though. Maybe I'm naive but he did seem genuinely outraged by the very idea at the outset (maybe a little too outraged?) and his own arguments in attempting to block it were incoherent at best. I just don't really understand why the defence would not embrace a referral unless they simply planned to keep it in reserve for any appeal and feel like now they've been forced to put all their eggs in one basket. (I typed basketcase initially - Freudian slip!) Given the many inadequacies in the defence so far, though, it would be crediting Roux with far too much guile, in my opinion, to even suspect he was playing some kind of double-bluff. Therefore there must be some fear of how an independent panel will assess Pistorius. It's unlikely that the core fact will alter, though, and that's that he still knew the difference between right and wrong, regardless of GAD. I'll be fascinated to see how this all pans out... really, I have no idea what will happen.

Oscar seems to be a deeply unstable mentally person. I wish Reeva had never met such a horrible man. Pistorius proved to have been deranged, dazed and confussed. Whatever the truth is, he had behaved in such an irresponsible, and spooky way that believe me- hardly anybody, if any, wil have be treating him serously after the verdict finally has arrived. R.I.P Reeva.

Just for the record with regards to the comment of corruption, the definition of corruption makes it irrelevant. if there was tampering with evidence or chance it is incompetance and not corruption.

leave the poor guy alone he has to live with the fact that through his actions he shot Reeva, but it was an accident.. He is anxious, so what!!! most of us are we just haven't all been diagnosed and its not a mental illness, he knew right from wrong it would only change the way he reacted.. you self opinionated people need to listen to the evidence and not be so jugemental..

@michelm939

10 жыл бұрын

In real life, Ziggy, not in your 'Free poor Oscar P !' world, a murderer is not 'left alone', he has to go through a trial and pay for what he's done which here is shooting through a flimsy door at another human being with particularly lethal bullets (and after listening to the testimonies and the evidence, nobody in their right minds can believe that he thought the person there was a burglar).

@michelm939

10 жыл бұрын

Charlie Percival If fools had wings the sky would be a crowded place ;)P ...

@michelm939

10 жыл бұрын

Hence the numerous plane crashes, Charlie Percival ;) ...

roux sounds like a professor but thats all

Isn't it great! So everyone who has a general anxiety disorder can kill and get away with it. Great!

THIS JUDGE WILL NOT REFERRED SHE IS IN HIS CORNOR SHE FEELS SORRY FOR HIM

roux is losing his temper as he knows he cant win the case...the truth will win the case..well don nell for all your hard work..and may reeva get justice and then rest in peace.

I agree with you 100% If he had nothing to hide he should have called 911 or the gate security. In My country if you move a body from the crime scene that is called "Tampering" and you face jail for that.

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

He did call 911 at 3:20:05 He was told to get her to the hospital as she was still breathing.

@choquera

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 Hi! I've been following this and I do not remember that he called 911. Can you please refresh my memory and let me know where I can find that testimonial? I remember when hearing him testify, that I found very strange that he called many people first, but not 911. His neighbor, whom he called, was the first one calling 911 when he got to OP home as I recall. Thanks!

@shnaz6665

10 жыл бұрын

choquera This testimony came out in OP's chief with Roux leading the questions and confirming OP called 911 Netcare while Reeva was still in the bathroom. He called at 3:20:05 (The cricket bat breaking the door was at 3:17 and the shots at about 3:12)

@choquera

10 жыл бұрын

shnaz66 Hi! I missed this...was this at the beginning of the trial or when OP came as a witness? has this been confirmed by phone logs? thanks!

Something is wrong here. You can clearly see father is satisfied by what is going there. I think they hoped that Nel would pick up on this version of events ie that op is mentally unstable. I guess if it is ruled that he is cuckoo then he will not go to jail but rather an open hospital?

Fkn joke this trial, they just get back from 25 mins for the morning tea break and 5 mins in after Nell has finished grilling the psycho Rouz get's up n says "sorry i need a 10 min break" .... get this sht over with !

@1.20.30 another witness to talk about "flight and fight". This is turning into a re-run of the Jodi Arias case. It did her no good either.

I only watch the case to see Mr fabulous Nel' otherwise i have absolutely no faith and interest in south African justice system as i have seen enough live documentaries about how random ppl are getting stabbed and killed. The victims fear for their life to file the report against there attackers as they are sure there attackers will be out the next day and will hunt them back down. Plus the treatment the injured get by the hospital staff including the doctors is absolutely horrendous and utterly disgusting. the doctors screaming at the dying injured to shut up. Cold animals classified as human !!!

OP should have taken a plea bargain. It would have save a fortune and he might walk away with a lighter sentence. So far it seems he is as guilty as hell and gonna get the max plus all the other charges. I hope they have removed all his guns or he is going to wack himself.

@StrzelnicaFX

10 жыл бұрын

***** too true

@StrzelnicaFX

10 жыл бұрын

***** too true

@jamc666

10 жыл бұрын

he should've sold the house and gold / diamond-plate his cell instead ...

goddamn, roux is pissed. why is this the first time he's gotten this heated? really doesn't want to postpone his inevitable loss another month i guess? i love how nel changed his voice to be super calm and composed after roux got all bitchy -- he made roux look so desperate. or rather, roux *is* so desperate.. nel just highlighted it.

Oscar will be referred for further evaluation. 14/05/2014 no doubt nell will win this court case :0))

This is like Fischer v Spassky, summer of 1972, except there's no crazy self-hating recluse. Well, there's Oscar, but he's just a pawn in this game.

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

Haha that's Brilliant!!

@Lholden17

10 жыл бұрын

***** I'm sure My Lady has made up her mind if she believes Pistorious' story or not...I don't know which way she'll rule but I feel she knows already.

@WarrenLevine

10 жыл бұрын

Alaa von Alsburg ***** I'm watching from the great Pacific Northwest, and I'm predicting that if Her Ladyship punts The Blade Gunner into The PsycHOtel for the next month to protect the public from a mentally-ill person with easy access to and a fetish for weapons of human destruction, she will be making great points with the progressive anti-gun lobby in my country, and will in effect be taking a big ol' crap on the windshields of the NRA's pickup trucks. Of course, I could be wrong, but I also foretold last night's Sanity Clause hearing. (And you thought there was no Sanity Claus.) -- with respects to Groucho Marx

@danielking9830

10 жыл бұрын

Alaa von Alsburg Yeah she'll get into major legal problems if she turns down the referral and then finds him innocent on the basis of his diminished capacity to reason. It would be a biased trial then.

@WarrenLevine

10 жыл бұрын

***** Under their law, would that be a mistrial, or does the concept exist, or is that a case where the two associates would come into play?

I will say it hear now..as this is my second round of listening to the witnesses..GUILTY GUILTY..So, Reeva, goes down stairs that evening, after arguing for awhile and see his phone plugged in and takes it, she then goes into the bathroom and SLAMS the door and locks it...OP asks.."did you call the police REEVA"...see his slip of the tongue in his statement 16:39-59 on 4/16? ..he then proceeds to slam the door down with the cricket bat to get to her...she won't give in..so he goes and get the GUN, and he shoots her in COLD BLOOD!!!!

@195Bucks

10 жыл бұрын

Ballistics showed that the bullets were definitely fired first and then he went and got the cricket bat. I would say that wood splinters from the edge of the door where he hit it with the cricket bat were laying on top of blood splatter as obviously if he had used the bat first then blood splatter would be on top of the splinters....although I was expecting Ballistics to come up with your theory and that would really show what a liar O.P is but in this instance O.P was telling the truth.

@debimarion8993

10 жыл бұрын

hmmm..according to others that have shown his ballistics..they r saying he had his legs on and easily has proven this report is incorrect...sooo after listening to this man..I believe anything is possible...the man has been allowed to sit in court and listen everything..this is just unbelievable that someone giving testimony is allowed!!! I say BS!!!