Thanks Mat! This notching system seems much easier to me than the binary one in my copy of Way beyond Monochrome. I just had my first 4x5 arrive this week after shooting film for a decade - a Sinar F2. I hope you have a beautiful 2024 my friend :)

Mind blown!!! I am amax=zed by the notches ... never thought if that!!!

Welp, I finally broke and got myself a 4x5 graflex I blame Mat 😁

@ericweiss2913

3 жыл бұрын

I love my Graflex 4x5. I took the old Ektar lens off and I shoot with only one lens on that camera... a modern Rodenstock APO-Sironar 135mm. It’s the only lens I’ve ever felt I need on that camera.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

A side effect of long term exposure to this channel! Congrats on the 4x5 Graflex!

@BobOgden1

3 жыл бұрын

I hope I have been able to choose wisely. A Crown Graphic - It comes with a Schneider Kreuznach Technika Symmar 150 f5.6. The lens is also capable of being used as a 265mm f12 by removing the front element

For me the hardest part is managing the exposed sheets as they all get put in the same box and my solution solves both problems... I keep each of my film holders in a zip-lock bag together with 2 re-printed template sheets onto which I write the holder number, film stock, lens, aperture and exposure time and any notes such as filters. When I unload the film I put it in the EXPOSED box adding it to the top of the pile, the sheet of paper gets added to a similar pile which is held to the box with a good old rubber-band. This means that the sheets in the box is in the same order as the notes out of the box and I can review these any time so long as I don't mess with their order. When it comes time to develop, I decide what I want to develop, all sheets of FP-4 for example, and develop them. After they're developed I write the development details on the reverse side of the paper and then file the developed negative with the corresponding piece of paper. Everything is in sync and I have a full record for all sheets, developed or waiting for developing. No notches needed but I had thought about it.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Richard it seems like you've got your system down, I'm envious! Your box + notes system looks solid, but knowing myself I would definitely screw up the notes part.

I used to stick labels on the holders. I used the blank labels for 35mm slides.

@MatMarrash

2 жыл бұрын

Labels are another great way to go!

I never thought about that great idea 😎

interesting idea, please show the how the notches look when exposed on the film in a later episode. Up to now, I have been slightly rounding a corner on the film when I load it into my tank. both my Stearman for the 4x5 and the Patterson insert for the 5x7 only hold four sheets , so noting which corner for which holder lets me keep track. So as long as I have the holders in order before I remove the sheets to get ready for processing, I know which sheet is from which holder - i planned to do the 8x10 one sheet at a time in one of the Stearman 8x10 tanks- a few years ago I purchased a Speed Graflex in a big case that came with a lot of 4x5 holders they all had a very little celluloid tab in them which a had a number that matched the holder and left that the number in the corner of the exposed film - they were quite brittle by then and all broke off in use. I have never seen them available

@oudviola

3 жыл бұрын

Same question, what do the developed films look like? I can't visialize where the notch code shows up on the negative.

@ricklosey3018

3 жыл бұрын

@@oudviola well, since he said he loads the film reversed - notch in first - they should show up at the bottom of the shot. But if the notches are only in the inside of the flap- I just wonder how deep and clear they will be on the negative

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Rick, you will be seeing the results as we head through the process start to finish. The marks won't be as prominent as if both parts of the flap are notched, but will also cut down on the potential for leaks. In researching this episode I came across similar plastic and metal cut-outs that were used but had a hard time finding images of the result on the film.

Binary! As a programmer (in the past) I'm very familiar with it. But this roman numeral idea with V and I notches is even better. This is one of the best tips I've seen for a long time!

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Christian! Fingers crossed the notches are readable and will help in ID'ing film that's tested in the coming weeks.

@c.augustin

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash Looks pretty good to me what you did there. I'll try it with one of my Toyo film holders, and if it does the trick, I might even do it on my Chamonix ones. A friend has some "XXX Elite" film holders (forgot the exact name) with small numbered wheels in it that leave actual numbers on the negative, and I thought them to be very useful.

That is a great idea. I have been trying to work out a way of identifying film sheets after developing them if I do different types of development. Keep up the good work

This is very helpful in organizing my holders. Thank you!

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Safety turd... :D I see how useful this can be. I'm not shooting LF yet but it is something I will come back to. Thanks

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: I probably would have grabbed the Xacto blade tip-first without gloves. ;)

Also I believe the riteway version II holder has a wheel with numbers 0 to 9 so that it can expose the dialed number onto the film. (The downside is that these holders are really expensive though.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Really wish more manufacturers would have included something like this, even as an optional feature.

Morse code would be the easiest for me (using letters instead of numbers, since letters have fewer dots and dashes than numbers.) A "V" for dashes and a notch for dots. A=._ B=_... C=_._. D=_.. etc. all the way to Z, and not many of us would run out of letters before we run out of film holders! Works well if one knows the Morse code.

Surprised you have not used the Delta 100 more. That is my go to film in any format - 4x5, 8x10, medium format and 35mm. I was a Kodak shooter many years ago then switched entirely to Ilford. I wish they made their SFX film in large format though.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

I've used it on and off, but really need to test it the way I did with FP4+ and HP5+ years ago. Also I'd be down for ANY IR in 8x10. At least in 4x5 there's Rollei IR.

@terrywbreedlove

3 жыл бұрын

I am switching over to Delta 100. Though I still have lots of Tmax to shoot up first

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

@@terrywbreedlove Same here! The TMAX 100 stash is close in number to the Delta 100 but quickly depleting.

Great mat. Arca Swiss actually have a small clear window on the side with the side Nunber of the holder side on it, also spearman press had clear plastic tabs that could be glued to the flip tab to achieve the same result. Great advice.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Phillip! Are those plastic tabs still available? If so I'll update the description with that info!

You mentioned the hinge is made out of thin bookbinding tape. I have some very worn holders that need new hinges. Where can I get this tape? Thanks for LFF. I love it

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

I bought my bookbinding tape from Blick Art Materials: www.dickblick.com/products/lineco-spine-repair-tape/ Still using the same roll after 5+ years.

I'm not sure why I've never considered this to be a thing, but this was a great video for me to learn from. Thanks a lot for this!

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

It's pretty amazing all the approaches photographers have employed to LF over the last century and a half. Still on the fence about notching some of my 8x10 holders due to price $__$.

@devtholt

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash Could do a small grafmatic type number on a transparency attached to the gate instead of notching it perhaps.

As i can develop only 4 films at once, i use to cut a film corner to keep counting the notes/films exposures. With the maximum of 4 films in the paterson orbital at once the math is quite easy... Now just want to try your way ^^

I'm usually pretty good at following your videos, but I have to be honset with you. I got totally lost with this one. I"ve watched it at least 3 time & still don't understand it. Oh well, maybe someday I will lol Still enjoy your Friday tutorials!

Great topic and something I've been meaning today. You referenced one of my favorite photography books "Way Beyond Monochrome". One of the best books out there that doesn't get talked about too often. Will you be taking this organization to the next level? Organizing your paper/digital record of the shot with the negative and then print? I try to do this but it happens only about 10% of the time.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed that Way Beyond Monochrome doesn't get enough love! Lots of great takeaways for B&W process. Ultimately I want this series to cover organization start to finish, but they may not occur back to back. My own weakest link is the note taking and negative record keeping.

An interesting idea! I've always numbered my holder with two number, 1-1, 1-2, 2-1, 2-2 etc. So far I haven't messed anything up yet. Also... there are only 10 types of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

@chuanlu

3 жыл бұрын

same here hahaha, but starting from 0 instead of 1🤣

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

How would I have ever guessed that you'd use a binary system? ;)

I'm just getting started and I could really use an empty box or 2 for 4x5 sheets. I'm in Utah if you can find someone to hook me up with! Love the channel Mat!

@MatMarrash

Жыл бұрын

Hey Chris! I'm fresh out at the moment but I'd recommend making a post over on the LF FB groups in the WTB section: facebook.com/groups/1375698122715892

I notch mine with something kinda like roman numerals, except with the equivalent of IIII instead of IV because I don't want to look that closely for file shape to tell the difference between IV and VI. I also notched through both sides of the flap, not just the inside. I've never had a light leak problem so far, though I didn't go all the way to the bottom. I also still load my film normally; I find the optical notches are usually pretty easily distinguished from the physical film code notches, and it's helpful to know by feel that it's loaded correctly. The binary system is good, I wish I'd seen that earlier. One tip I can suggest for keeping exposed film separate from unexposed: bring one plastic bag per box, and just put the exposed film in the bag as you load the new stuff in. This is especially handy when traveling.

@yvinddahle7714

2 жыл бұрын

Mine have green tape when loaded and blue when exposed. Lot of blue tape bits on my cameras ;)

Suggestion; Barry Thornton 2 step developer. You will be amazed at the dynamic range. Easy to make and easy to use. Polythermic and multi film

You can also use a binary system with a different base that makes it much easier to use. I have a small steel ruler in which I cut notches that I plan to use as a benchmark. The notches are 1-2-4-8-16 and a reference. You just add the notches to get the number of the back (up to 32 backs). Which reminds me, I still have a ton of double darkslides to notch 🙄

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Francois your setup sounds a lot like the Way Beyond Monochrome notching guide, down to the steel template ruler. The counting of the base notches makes good sense, but doesn't take into account me forgetting they're in binary, seeing three notches, and calling it three! >__< One of these days I'll get organized!

I had 3 frames laser cut through the edge of the flap, a dot • = 1, a square □ = 5 and triangle 🔺️ = 10, will be developing soon, hopefully it works as intended. The dark slide seals correctly and on a light leak test I didn't see a problem.

good tip, esp. if you are testing, or chasing a light leek in a holder, so you DEFINATELY know which holder is the one at fault!! ( like you are fingerprinting the holders!!)

How are you making an X? Slanting your straight file? I’m using a thin hacksaw for the “I” but was considering “V”‘s for my 10s

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

"X" is a hard thing to notch, so I settled for a round file creating a semi-circle for the tens.

I need to number my holders so I can keep track of what’s in them and the exposure values. Though I am shooting all my stock up and switching to just one film as soon as I can. Going to ilford Delta 100.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

As the number of holders grow keeping track can be difficult if not shooting and developing right away. Let me know how you like Delta 100!

@terrywbreedlove

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash Man not sure yet. Made a couple prints from the 120 film and they look a little grainier and with less smooth tonality than Tmax 100. Developed in D76 1.1 as I always do with Tmax. Both prints 8x10 with 2# contrast. Always loved TMax just not sure yet. I did Order more Delta so we will see.

❤️ ❤️ ❤️

I have the wooden Chamonix holders. Have you ever nodged one of those? I am kind of hesitant because they are made of wood and they are 90€ a piece for 4x5. I am still thinking of a workflow where I can identify the exposures without nodging. You got any tips on that?

@MatMarrash

2 жыл бұрын

With holders that pricey, I'd agree on not notching. You can always use small stickers/labels on the holders to denote exposures and processing.

Any suggestions on how to remove old writing on film holders. I had a few given to me and was curious if you knew any tricks.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

At work we have a Goo-Gone pen for removing writing on holders. Doesn't get it out 100% but enough to write-over.

Hair casually defying physics...

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

It's almost time for a trim, but would it even be large format then?!

I don’t notch my holders at all. I guess it’s because I have been at this for over 45 years. My holders are numbered and as I process my film I can tell from the image on it what notes go with it. The sleeves are marked with the notes.

Well, I have a system without notching. Have 8 - 4x5 holders each marked as #1-8 and side A/B. Then the film type loaded is a colored sicker with info . Use an App to record holder details. Notching sounds great yet I have a standardized workflow that works. Any change to the dance introduces risks. I finally stopped tripping over myself now, i.e. have my dance legs. Thanks for sharing.

@ashley1scott

3 жыл бұрын

What app do you use to record holder details? At the moment I am just using the note feature on the phone

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

I've got a feeling I'm going to like notches since I'm pretty bad about the note-taking side of things. Maybe once this series is over I'll be a bit more organized. ;)

@flipflopsLF

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash How would I notch my Chamonix wood holders - same?

@flipflopsLF

3 жыл бұрын

Use Film Pad and Reciprocity Timer. There are others too. Plus myLightMeter Pro allows you to save photo with exposure info then add a note for the film type holder…

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

@@flipflopsLF Never tried notching a wooden holder, but I'd assume it's a similar process. Also those Chamonix holders are nice enough that I'd be scared!

For me rubbing alcohol (isopropanol / isopropyl alcohol) has been really good for removing markings from prior owners of film holders. I have been cleaning gear with IPA due to the pandemic and was surprised that it was taking off markings as well as cleaning. If you mark in a base that's a power of 2, you may want to consider a corresponding written base system, so erasing might be useful. V, I and O files would give 3bits per position... are there X files?

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Jeremy, no x files but I ended up using round files for the tens/x.

2:55 I think that might be the wrong corner. It should still be the top-right with the text on the holder right side up.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Good catch Tony! That wasn't a great point towards the opposite corner.

Great idea.... But how do you notch an X ?

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

An X would be very hard to make, so I settled on a semi-circle carved from a round file. A square is another option with most hobby file sets.

@IainHC1

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash Makes sense :-)

I purchased some holders that were already notched, I had no idea what the notches were for 😉. Now I'll have to figure out what system the person was using.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Half of the reason I made this video is because the notched holders I purchased years ago I thought were defective because of the extra exposure on the film. Hopefully you can identify the system and/or modify them to your own!

So how do you make the X for 10. I have 20 holders that I use. Don't ask it was a great deal on 31 holders from a guy in Japan.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Very tricky to carve an X. For these holders I settled on a round file which creates a semi-circle. Hobby file sets will also typically include a square file in the event there are 49+ holders.

@sophietucker1255

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash That's what I was thinking but then I thought maybe he has a trick I don't know about. Oh and I counted up all my 4x5 holders and I have 42 of them. Maybe I should sell a couple of them.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

@@sophietucker1255 I think everybody has their own operating range for holders, and [*checks notes*] I've got no room to judge on too many holders. ;)

I don't notch. I have only five double-holders for my 5x7" and two double-holders for my 11x14". I never do more pictures in a day than that, and I hate undeveloped pictures, so I always develop the same day I took the pictures or - if that is not possible for some strange reason - at the day after the shooting. I only need to know if a holder is empty, filled and unexposed, or filled an exposed. The holders are numbered (1-10 at 5x7, and 1-4 at 11x14), and I include the holder number at the picture taking tracking sheet. Thus there is no mix up.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

The data and tracking of holders and development really gets away from you the longer it sits undeveloped! Good system you've worked out there.

Why does my comment keep getting deleted?

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

Beats me, I'm certainly not doing it!

@chrismckenna4689

3 жыл бұрын

@@MatMarrash It's probably me. I'm not all that good with the interwebs and such. Anyway, take a look at shop.stearmanpress.com/blogs/news/im-not-the-only-one?_pos=8&_sid=4e9bf7bbe&_ss=r for an alternative way of marking holders that doesn't require filing notches. It works pretty well for me.

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrismckenna4689 Thanks for sharing this Chris! Really like that Stearman Press solution!

this guys hair, really? lol.... is he trying to look like johnny bravo?

@MatMarrash

3 жыл бұрын

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