Anne: "Two violins is bad" TwoSetViolin: "She's about to end our entire career"

When the content is so good you need not to say to like and subscribe... it happens naturally well before the video ends.

KZread has transformed our lives - for people like me, knowledgeable enough about music to understand the challenges, but from whom music is a hobby far from our professional sphere, having a master like you sharing their experience is a godsend, and an infinite source of discovery and inspiration. I cannot thank you enough for this.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad to hear that! This is exactly why I do this. I'm not sure I'd say I'm a master at anything but certainly decent enough to teach a thing or two. ;-P

@kevinjunior_kid

Жыл бұрын

Heaven offers great music!! ❤️😇 I wish you could see that

@dannuttle9005

Жыл бұрын

I remember the very earliest of music cmposition software, in the 80s, and I was fascinated by it, but had no idea what I was doing. Now I have, well, at least some idea, thanks to brilliant people like Anne-Kathrin, and I'm torn between regret that it came so late in life, and happiness that it came at all.

I can't believe you stopped the Moldau RIGHT BEFORE the main theme came in. I just about died right there.

Listening a symphony is like eating your favorite food. Just as different ingredients mix to make a dish yummy, different sounds in the music mix to make your ears happy.

I love your style of speaking. It’s very easy to listen to! There are too many people on the Tube trying to Make Everything Interesting By Talking In This Excited Manner… Listening to you, I feel treated like the adult I wish I was 🙂

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

So happy to hear that! I’m generally a fairly chill person so I don’t think I could match those energy levels even if I tried. 😅

@mattkirk100

2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree..!

"I can make more of these" - yes, please, if you have time! That clattering noise is me frantically typing notes as I watched this video, this is EXCELLENT insight/info. Thank you! Also, you've definitely trimmed down, congrats and looks great. 👍🏼 Now I need to step up!

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, okay okay, I’ll record some more. Thank you for watching!

@musicallyroy

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnneKathrinDernComposer I have always struggled with the intellectual stubbornness that tells me not to be too literal/forward with the melody. My brain is like ‘seriously, that’s all you can think of. Nearly everyone playing the melody. How creative is that’ It makes me feel like I am not paying effort in my piece. Hearing your suggestion and reassurance really helps!

@AudioArtsAssociates

2 жыл бұрын

Learned more from you than study. Thanks so much!

@ValkyRiver

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnneKathrinDernComposer 9:31 I have the opposite problem - I don’t know how to use percussion. Liszt Chasse-Neige: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qH6pm8dqgNWYdc4.html Liszt Wilde Jagd: kzread.info/dash/bejne/paGi0LtqkrfVZKg.html

The first piece of advise needs to be said more often. I always feel like I'm doing to many instruments in unison when I'm really not

Best part is when you mention in quasi ASMR soothing tones “don’t be afraid to put a shit ton of instruments on a melody”. I almost fell off my couch laughing so hard. Not at the notion just the delivery.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, that's what I get for sitting so close to the mic!

Overwriting percussion… Do NOT start composing your piece to a “Deep Orchestral Beds Grooves”, “Damage”, Stylus RMX and so on and so forth…Those technological “marvels” are meant to be added at the end of composing process. Groove can “inspire” one for certain music, serve as a “convenient” building block that allows further composition to emerge, but it’s a trap !!! After you compose, “orchestrate” and mix your “baby”, when you mute that “percussion bed” you’d be surprised :) Start composing WITHOUT any “inspirational groove”. Anne-Kathrin, your videos are awesome, especially for those of the young students who really want to learn things ! You have a true gift of clearly expressing verbally profound musical ideas, without any unnecessary BS. Straight-to-the-point. Let us know how did your workshop in Austra go (for those of us who couldn’t travel to be with you at the location).

I love the natural and total acceptance of different types of music in your mind--just saying something like "traditional scores 'with melodies and stuff'.." so non-chalantly is hilarious to me. But it's so true!

“I can make more of these.” The world would be much better off if you did

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Okay fine. :-)

Loved the crickets😄at "young composers over compensate by over writing percussion". Thank you for this video.

It’s funny how you said, in the beginning that it wouldn’t work for mock ups. And this is the perfect advice for my mock ups. lol great video!

You so so SO inspire me to put pen to manuscript and start ( again) all that orchestration waiting to be done. Big problem: I'm pissin' useless......

In dovetailing,any new orchestrators take note, overlap one note to keep it seamless. A lot of subtle different effects can be applied,like how long the phrase is before dovetailing. Also, there's a difference in effect between call and response (no overlapping note) and dovetailing. If all else fails,try to keep it sounding natural. And yes, percussion is more effective the less they're used.

Fantastic video, I'm so glad this popped up in my recommendations! As a now (mostly) former trumpet player, I can give a little bit of insight in #5. Basically for most trumpet players it's much easier to pitch off another trumpet particularly in the higher register, and most players in an ensemble will instinctively adjust their pitch minutely so that all the overtones from each note in the chord line up nicely. This is why a good funk/big band trumpet section sounds so damn good playing big stacked chords! When they're all playing in unison, and particularly when your root note is in the higher overtones (C5 and above - which as you say counts as "high" but is normally fine for all but beginners) this becomes more and more difficult as there's only one overtone series to lock on to. So, if one player hears that they're slightly off pitch relative to the others and moves, but another player does the same thing, they're all trying to hit a moving target! Dropping the 3rd trumpet down an octave means that the higher players now have a rock solid 1st overtone note to reference from, as you spotted. Thanks so much, would love to hear any more tips you have!

@diegorhoenisch62

2 жыл бұрын

Fucking brilliant! That makes great sense. I played bass trombone and doubling an octave(or two) down stabilized everything. It's got to be that there's a solid overtone to reference to. Cheers, Alan Tomlinson P.S. Ms. Dunn(I was going to write Frau), that was a perfect video. Concise, great examples, well-explained. Thanks!

@blackkeys00

2 жыл бұрын

Interesting, this is very useful information thanks for sharing!

@jonaslind9505

Жыл бұрын

Fascinating insight!

@pavkey88

8 ай бұрын

Hey thanks for taking the time to explain this. Makes sense and I was trying to figure it out. Cheers

Your use of my favourite measurement, the "shit ton" or "shitton" as I like to type it, It is used it in perfect context about all the instruments playing the melody. lol

i am not an orchestral composer but i find your videos very interesting and enjoyable.

Oh my god, 3 trumpets traps! Thanks for your sharing.

Don’t be shy to have a bunch of instruments playing the same melody in octaves - Thank you this is so important to hear.

This girl have VERY NICE, effective, clear and short tips for orchestration, BRAVO!

I don’t know why KZread recommended this as I only make amateur music on synthesizers. But funny fact: in electronic music, slightly detuned oscillators to create thicker sounds is a very common practice. Now I learned this will also happen if you’d compose for a strings section.

The rule of 3!

Oh Memoirs of a Geisha, my favourite Williams score.

I´ll be honest. I said OK, I give you 1 minute, but after a few second I knew, this is the kind of the videos I want to seeing. Please keep doing, great wok.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it! And welcome aboard! Will definitely keep making these as time permits. :-)

It's like listening to Bernstein. No showing off - just humble delivery for the masses. All new to me apart from trebling the voices. Can't wait to see the next clip.

Thank you, Anne-Kathrin! Ha! Great trumpet story... love those quick fixes :) You are such a valuable ambassador to the world. Blessings...

Very nice tips! About the violin sounding twice as loud… 2 violins : +3dB 4 violins : +6dB 8 violins : +9 dB The doubling of the perceived volume is +10dB. So probably 8 or 9 violins should be enough to get the feeling. But ten will do, for sure! Congrats! I wish you a happy new year!

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Happy new year to you too!

Not gonna lie, this KZread channel is goldmine

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

I don't know how I got to your channel, but I'm glad I did. You are amazing! Can't wait for more.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!!

Well, nothing really new to me BUT HEY. Sometimes it’s very helpful to have things put into words. So thanks for enhancing my beliefs and reminding me of certain things that have become my fluent language, but therefore not so much in the foreground. In any case: well done. Good advice to everyone who is about to dive into orchestration.

Yes. More!

Wonderful little master class. THANKS A LOT. And yes, guilty as charged about that percussion thing....

The part about the 3 Trumpets is one of those treasured gems that will be remembered for a life time by me. Additionally the information about 2/3 violins is yet another precious gem of knowledge.

straight in with the serious eyes, no messing around :D

This is so very very very most excellent Great. Thank you Anne-Kathrin Dern. You are simply the best. This is pure education-Thanks Thanks Thanks.

12:21 this is interesting! Did sheet music work for an orchestrator, and he usually put Tpt. 3 an octave lower when playing melodies and now I know a reason why.

I've learned so much from your videos advancing my orchestral music composing skills! Thanks to you I've started a KZread channel for my music. I've bought you a couple of coffees. Thank you so much!

I guess you should say "like and subscribe" and promote your channel, but it's not needed for me. I have learned some incredible things from your experience, in such a short time, and do that automatically as a way to thank you for sharing it. Awesome ! So glad I found you ! 😁

Having someone play an octave lower for support is so so so helpful, lead singers tend to benefit a lot from that as well! Another workaround is to send them a clean piano through their hp mix.

Sound advice! I need videos like this to be reminded that I actually have retained some information over the years! Also, congratulations on The Claus Family 2!

Oh wow,it,s just so helpful. Why this video recommended just two years later?( . Youare like an angel to me now. Thank you so much❤❤❤. I am a your new subscriber

"You don't need to split out every player into their own line". True and couldn't have agreed more. I don't remember on which social I read it, but there was this composer that invited other composers to write "interesting and challenging parts" for the orchestra players. And I couldn't disagree more with that statement: you have to write your music in service of your melody and the feeling you wanna give the listeners back, not impress orchestral players.

@Kitarraman

2 жыл бұрын

And that's without taking into accounts that the orchestra will be happy to work with a composer/orchestrator that knows how to do the job properly, producing parts that are playable

The tree trumpets tip is definitely a life saver! cheers.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Glad this is helpful!

Yes, throw all the horns at the melody. Like that place late in Ein Heldenleben where Strauss puts all _eight_ horns on the unison melody.

There's no substitute for owning a lot of scores, studying them intently, making Adler's book on orchestration your bible, and hearing your work played. Occasionally a composer like Janacek will break with orchestration fundamentals and produce a great score without resorting to a lot of unison. So a good orchestrator needs to know when it's fine to think outside of the box. I would add, it's important to consider playing ability. If arranging/orchestrating for a school or community group, you may have to water down (simplify) some of your more complicated parts. The best orchestration in the world may not work very well for amateurs.

@jaycee330

Жыл бұрын

I agree! I STILL have my Adler book from college (over 20 years ago), and it's my go-to for orchestration help.

Clearly & simply explained. Well done. Very pretty Eyes too. :)

I use the melody tip often except for the fact I use a counter melody on celli.

Fantastic! This stands above all the myriad of videos I view on the subject, as being the most succinctly constructed to avoid yada yada yada yada...coma. I can easily fall victim to over complicating my mockups. It's a byproduct of actually having the ears but being unschooled- my schooling being listening to the greats, absorbing a shit ton of learning material, watching every video you put out, and writing a shit ton of compositions. With every new piece I start by saying ok, I'm gonna do myself a favor and simplify. This video goes a long way as a reminder to that end, and how to better accomplish it. Thank you so much, Anne. I'm a shit ton pleased with this video. (Yes, you're speaking my shit ton language!)

Wow! I'm speechless. This information is worth diamonds!! Please do more 🙏🏼

Vor kurzem habe ich deinen Kanal per Zufall entdeckt und sehr schnell abboniert. Mir gefiel die Art und Weise der Erklärungen. Nach einem der letzten Videos die ich von Dir gesehen hatte, habe ich mich gefragt, wie sich zum Beispiel Lautstärken verschiedener Instrumente unterscheiden, welche Tonhöhen werden üblicherweise von einzelnen Instrumenten gespielt usw. Dieses Video deckt genau solche Fragen ab, von denen ich noch gar nicht wusste, dass ich sie stellen könnte. Sehr hilfreich, unaufgeregt und ruhig erklärt, wirkt es sehr kompetent. Lieben Dank fürs Teilen!

I love this stuff Anne, PLEASE keep these jewels coming whenever you can! Yer the best! 🙏👍

The background @ 3:41 appears to be John Williams, Harry Potter and the chamber of secrets, Fawkes the Phoenix. Great tipps and video :)

Great tips, it's great to get some first hand knowledge from an insider.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Glad this is helpful!

Currently binging your content and learning so much! Thanks a lot Anne, great job on these, keep them coming, subbed! 🙂

RE: Percussion: Very few people think about this, but a prominent distinction between classical and pop is what drives the rhythm. In classical, it is harmony-driven; in pop, it is predominantly percussion driven rhythm. In the 1989 movie "Dream Team," some of the asylum members enter a concert hall where there is an ongoing performance by an orchestra of Beethoven's 9th; they entice and lead the audience into leaving their seats and dancing to the music! Aside from the tympani solo (actually a part of the melody), the music is harmony-driven.

@Steve-fn6ky

2 жыл бұрын

I think I get the point you're trying to make, however I don't agree with the term "harmony-driven" music. Rhythm is what drives music, it can't itself be driven by harmony or melody. So there is no such thing as harmony driven music. I think what you mean is that classical music doesn't have a clearly defined pulse, while in pop and rock there is always a constant bass drum driving the music forward. Classical music doesn't have that, instead the conductor defines the pulse for the musicians. There is a rhythmic pulse to every song, but genres differ in how they define or present that pulse to their audience.

Thank you for an excellent presentation. And thanks KZread algorithm for suggesting this video.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

You know realy all about Orchestration ! This with the 2 or 3 Violines in unisono is very important, a lot of peoples dont know this. This with the 3 Trumpets in unisono is very interresting, this i dont was knowing ! Your Videos are very very good to learn new things in Producing Filmscores ! Thank you so much for your Videos and sharing your knowloedge !

This is still amazing, for it is not only applicable for live orchestras, but also for digital orchestration! This will definitely help me, so thank you!

Yes! Very helpful. What Pauli D said. Please more tips!!!

I don’t have the capability to train professionally, so videos like these are incredibly useful! It hurts knowing that I’ll never truly understand, but videos like these are great at giving me just a glimpse.

Fantastic! Thank you, and yes please. I love you said 5#1T ton 🤣

"Choir breathing" is often referred to as "staggered breathing". Some may be familiar with that term

I'm glad the youtube algorithm brought me here, this channel is a true gem! Auf jeden Fall auch gerne mehr Quick Tip Videos! Grüße!

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Alles klar, wird gemacht! :-)

I divide the brass into two groups: the trumpets, 'bones in the projecting/piercing group, and the horns, tubas, euphonia in the spreading/glowing group. Which is why french horns are so often paired with woodwinds.

This was chock full of seriously useful orchestration advice. Thanks so much for sharing!

i shall no longer be afraid of a "shit ton" of instruments playing unison.... :) God i love this woman! LOL

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Do not fear! For fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate… leads to endless suffering. Also, I’m declaring a “shit ton” a professional industry term now. 😅

I've also noticed that 3 violins is plenty and often trying to mix a 4th just creates anxiety. Also often 3 combos can be stunningly complementary to each other, where one instrument can lift the start while the second or third instrument will, say, send it off into an angled trajectory of sorts. yknow?

Thank you so much. This made my understanding of Orchestration easier. 👍🏽

Very useful. Thanks, Anne-Kathrin. :)

Thank you so very much. Very engaging and instructive. Please keep these video coming. Again, THANK YOU!!

Great tips! I especially liked #5 - that was a cool story too.

Wow! supertips👍greetings from The Netherlands

Tip number 4 is such a good one...I think Hans said that too on VI-C and ever since I started applying that into my more "traditional" pieces my writing improved quite a bit! And please, do make more whenever you have the time and feel like it!

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Will do! Thank you for watching!

Top notch quality content and some really great tips! Danke dir Anne-Kathrin!

As you were mentioning the combination of the different orchestra sections playing a melody in different octaves I had the sudden urge to blast ''journey tot he island'' from Jurassic Park. suck an absolute killer piece 😸😸😸 gives me fuzzies just thinking about it

I had 5 semesters of music theory and history, but almost no orchestration. I REALLy appreciate your explaining the "nuts & bolts" of the actual job of score building. Thank-You!

Love your videos, especially the opening video sketches. I miss Bubba Gump shrimp....

Very nice tips Anne best wishes from UK England Phil 👍🙏

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching! Glad this was helpful!

Excellent tips! Will keep them all in mind, especially the trumpet one.

This was Gold, AK. Super helpful tips, and you are fun to listen to.

The melody section is 🔥🔥🔥. It’s helpful seeing how others orchestrate.

Hi Anne-Kathryn, Just want to say thanks, your videos are very enlightening!

Great insights - Very helpful (with your sense of humor shining through nicely). Please do make more, if/when you are able. Thanks!

I tend to overcomplicate the string section a lot. Thanks for providing this simple but quite logical tip. 3 octaves in the melody, 2 in the bass. BOOOM :D I'm trying this in my next track.

@TAP7a

Жыл бұрын

Another string tip is to just read some lush scores like Debussy, Ravel, Delius or Dvorak: try to analyse a lush piece or passage like Paradise Garden for Delius, Prelude a l'apres-midi d'un faune for Debussy, or Symphony 8 3rd movement for Dvorak. In the Dvorak for example, the super lush warm tone comes from a surprisingly sparse set of instruments: bass, cello, viola, clarinets in melody and a horn, iirc. You're not the first composer to want to create these moods, plenty of masters have done it successfully before you and there is no need to reinvent the wheel if you can simply adapt it!

Super interesting and helpful! As a drummer and percussionist, I loved the quote from Korsakov : ) Funny cause its true!!

Clear, concise, and fantastic as always Anne. The trumpet tip was new to me as well! 🎺🎺🎺

Hi Anne! great resources for noob arranger like me; keep adding more hacks like these, really appreciate it

Sehr hilfreiches und inhaltsreiches Video. Danke dafür.

Good reminders in a single video. Tips to keep in your back pocket 👍👍 along with a few Nespresso capsules ☕️😉

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching! And nooooo to the Nespresso capsules - we make freshly roasted and ground coffee over here at my place. :-)

@jonathanbrooker8193

2 жыл бұрын

@@AnneKathrinDernComposer yes indeed fresh roast is always best, especially for expresso coffee. Though that would mean a messy back pocket 😉☕️ and potentially giving up valuable studio space. Tough decision!!!

thanks Anne!

Top info! Subscribed after watching just a minute of it!

Learning so many things, filling in so many gaps from your excellent vids. Vielen Dank!

Merci pour ton partage et tes retours d"expériences. 👏👏👏👏👏👏!!!!!!!!!!!!

As a professional orchestrator and composer, these tips are 100% correct!!!

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

@AnneKathrinDernComposer

2 жыл бұрын

Gladly! Thank you for watching!

As a percussionist, Rimsky-Korsakov is one of my favorite ever orchestrators.

Moin aus Norddeutschland! Vielen Dank, dass Du Dir die Zeit nimmst, Deine Videos zu machen. Ich bin so froh, Deinen Kanal gefunden zu haben! Deine Themenwahl ist absolut hilfreich, und Deine Art zu erklären ist nicht nur sehr verständlich, sondern man spürt auch Deinen Enthusiasmus! :-) Deine Videos sind ganz klar die besten Erklärvideos überhaupt! Und wie wir Norddeutschen sagen: Keep it up, mien Deern! 😁

Some pretty sound advice. If you want to understand why having many trumpeters play in the high 2nd/3rd octave sounds bad, check out some trumpet instructional videos. A lot of what I know about trumpet writing I learned as a bassist in a jazz band.