For my brothers off grid system I built a sun tracker system out of an arduino controller with two matched photocells (photocells where mounted in center of solar array facing same direction as panels)and a 3inch high plate between them…every minute the arduino would compare intensity of light being photocells and rotate solar array so intensity match…the solar array had the capability of rotating about 165 degrees which was more than enough for our Canadian location. We installed a trailer hub in the base of the solar arrays pole so the array could track from east to west during the day using a 24vdc actuator (same voltage as his battery system).every evening when the light intensity decreased to “dusk” the arduino would send the array back to home or east position ready for next morning. We also installed a manual operated actuator that changed the vertical angle of the array ( November 6th to February 6th ) winter position ( February 6th to May 6th and August 6th to November 6th)Spring/Fall position and third position May 6th to August 6th for summer..For the November to February months here in Canada there wasn’t enough solar power so we installed a propane powered generator that would charge the batteries and run an electric heater . A secondary rad was installed in house heat duct so heating of the house also cooled the generator ( the secondary rad would shut off if house was at temperature.) Me being a mechanical engineer technologist and an electrician and my brother being an machinist we built most of the rotating solar array out of scrap materials If you had to buy everything brand new using Edison method of east west layout would be definitely more cost effective.

@gregholloway2656

3 ай бұрын

I’m curious what you used for the 24V actuator. I’m planning to build a solar array at my house in a couple of years, and can handle all the mechanical and control needs, just unsure what actuator to use. Thanks

@John13Edge

3 ай бұрын

@@gregholloway2656 We used ones off of a old dentist chair that was the tilt actuator…I believe it was a ball screw type because the drive motor was perpendicular to actuator’s axis…The company I worked for was renovating a dentist office and I was able to get a couple old broken dentist chairs for nothing..

@newatthis50

3 ай бұрын

This video and your comment have given me some of the best information I've had. I have a poor location for solar but this gives me hope

@GregOughton

3 ай бұрын

This is an awesome project! I'm really curious what this looks like, do you have any photos posted anywhere?

@John13Edge

3 ай бұрын

@@GregOughton sorry I don’t it was built before I had any real interest in KZread

Local weather considerations are why I went south-west facing. We have consistent morning fog and cloud cover, but sunny afternoons. No point setting up a fixed panel that doesn’t get much sun

Love that he has a working man's hands. It's clear to see that he's washed and maybe even scrubbed his hands but the ground in grease and machine dirt are still there. Appreciate a man who's able to work with his hands and his mind

But, but, but, I run a panini press at lunch, and a crock pot cook’n beans all day 😅. Great explanation.

As a trained and educated Solar Technician i approve of this message! Great Job!

Just recently there was a big study on solar panels showing East-West being the best. Also, farmers have been testing out a mix of solar panels had grapes and other food-growing techniques and the results have been ... they getting more solar power and getting more food production as well

@MarkRose1337

3 ай бұрын

East-West with bifacial panels installed vertically. That does work well at mid latitudes. It does mean solar production is shifted towards summer and away from winter, so may not be the best idea at high latitudes (say higher than 55° or 60°) as it won't give much winter production. I'd install a mix, personally, with some additional panels facing south to fill in the noon peak and get more production in winter.

Having done grid level solar, this is a great quick explanation of the problems. Nice job.

Yes, directly East/West works best in the summer. But, in off-grid, you need to harvest the most energy you can in the winter and just over-produce in the summer. The winter is the hardest to get through. I live in NY and the sun doesn't rise in the East and set in the West in the winter when you really need to optimize your production. It rises in the SE and sets in the SW. At the end of Dec, it rises in SSE and sets SSW. Facing them directly East/West looses energy in the morning and evening. It does fit nicely on a trailer though.

@MarkRose1337

3 ай бұрын

Exactly. I think it makes sense to have some south facing panels oriented for winter production as well. As a bonus it fills out the noon trough when the east-west panels aren't doing much. And the east-west panels can be vertical bifacials (with the front facing the most useful direction).

@scottkolaya2110

3 ай бұрын

@@MarkRose1337 If you face them SE and SW, there still is a peak at noon because both sides are getting sunlight at that time. I just checked and the SW array starts producing around 10:15 am. They are both equally producing at 12:30 because the sum of both at non-ideal angles are still greater than one array at an ideal angle. Sure you could put one facing directly south if you needed extra energy at noon for some reason.

@deansmits006

3 ай бұрын

All good points. Orientation really depends on a lot of factors, not a 1 size fits all approach. For the off grid lighting Edison makes, transportation/footprint is a huge factor.

works really good farther north in summer but not so well in winter when you need the power the most .try east west with two shine wing walls pointing at latest sun set and rise .. june 21.like a 3 pointed star. 1 point facing south👍👍

I have East West on my off grid here in SoCal, with most of the panels on the West side for peak a/c usage. It also avoids the seasonal adjustments that south facing needs.

It also orients your panels to shed snow and rain very effectively and, if I am observing accurately, that makes the panels a sort of shelter that you can use to cover the batteries and inverter. During the summer months or in hot climates it probably makes the passive cooling convection flow more effective too.

Love an educator with dirty hands. ❤

I have been looking at solar but live above the 55th parallel and your east west facing panels make sense but I think I'd need S-east and S-west facing due to the low arc of the sun. Also my angles would be different.

@MarkRose1337

3 ай бұрын

It depends on the season when you need the energy. I live at about the same latitude. In summer you'll find the sun actually rises at ENE and sets at WNW. At 55°N, bifacials mounted vertically east-west, both sides exposed, will make fantastic power during the summer, with a sharp dip at noon. That's at the expense of winter power. But in addition to winter hours being less, the sun is also less intense as it goes through more air, plus the curvature of the earth results in the sunlight getting through being spread across more area. If you're looking at maximum annual production, vertical east-west bifacials win. But if you're offgrid and need maximum winter production, I'd consider mounting normal panels on a south facing wall, or vertical bifacials facing south or split SSE/SSW (summer sun will hit their back sides). Vertical to keep the snow off, even if it's slightly less efficient for the winter sun angle. The sun will still be 26° up in the sky at the solstice noon, so you'd actually want them on a 64° angle at that time. Panels work best within a 15° angle, so you could tilt them to 79° to get the most of the winter sun when it's closer to the horizon.

@thaddeustroyer

3 ай бұрын

👆 what he said. Came to say the same thing, just this guy is smarter than me and said it better too😂 way to go @markrose1337

Question Why not have majority E-W and a third S facing? 🤔

@johnharvey5412

3 ай бұрын

I've seen where somebody set up their panels in an arc shape and they got very even power throughout the day.

thats a interesting look, i suppose it really depends on what you are using the power for and what you need it for.

The only thing to add here is that while E/W panels make relatively more in morning / evening, over all they make less thru the entire day. I'm going to make a SWAG and say you probably need 25% more panels if you do east/west mounting. It helps when you use bifacial panels and there's snow on the ground.

@martylawson1638

3 ай бұрын

Only looked a little, but vertical east west facing looks like it improves power output the most in poor conditions. So it reduces the battery bank size and the number of hours the backup generator runs. So while not a silver bullet, it's a powerful knob to turn to optimize the whole system.

If you also have snow or lay down white gravel with East West vertical panels you can get a lot more power during midday.

The other advantage to E-W is that the panels don't get as hot, and they produce less power when they get hot. In some climates this is less of an issue during certain times of year, but in summer it's only a question of how much they're throttled by heat.

I don't know if you made it clear, east to west only works better if you have two sided panels. You don't need twice as much panel, you just need to take what you have and split them evenly east and west. This isn't always practical of course, like in the case of your panels being on the side of a building, but in open spaces where the rack is unobstructed 180 degrees, we've found that to be the best way to set them up.

In areas where you get snow it’s also important to stand the panels straight up with absolutely no lean backwards. Even an inch or two of lean back will let snow build on the surface and drastically reduce the capacity of the panels. When I see my neighbours with panels all over their roof and laying at the same pitch as the 5/12 roof and covered in a foot of snow I really have to wonder if they have any idea at all. Any that I’ve set up on remote sites were always set straight up after recommendations from the electrical crews who did that work every day. I leaned some back a couple inches on one and they told me it would collect snow and sure enough, they were right. The sun is low in winter anyway so straight up and down is pretty close to 90 degrees to the sun anyway.

@deansmits006

3 ай бұрын

And for Edison, their angle is so steep they don't have to worry about snow buildup on their lighting system.

I have just been learning about this and it totally makes sense!!!

Have you considered bifacial panels?

Have you considered hinging the panels , so they open to 90degrees...giving a SE/SW orientation? Wonder what production would look like.

Now I'm thinking SE & SW... 😅😂😊 Since this is the orientation of my house. Note: I'm also thinking vertical panels for optimal winter service.

Very interesting 👌

Don't forget that East-West also causes less heat build up in the panels which actually increases efficiency and decreases degradation.

You have to mention that an East west orientation requires two maximum power point trackers (MPPT's) ie. One per orientation

@blaydCA

3 ай бұрын

The MPPT charge controllers cheap enough.

Best classrooms are from inside a 53foot dry van. 👌

OR a diagonalised - east-west array.. - you could make a variation on the solar trailer with opening wings to position the panels more optimally.. (I get your design and orientation, I "appreciate" the long steady hours of east west arrays - (In my case my solar faces nortthwest due to terrain and being in the southern hemisphere. - Summer solar keeps the AC going well into the evening...) - Or is it cheaper to just get 2 trailers and park both at 90 degrees to each other?? - arrow formation pointing south....

Either that or go Mediterranean style. Close up shop for lunch mid-day as the main meal, and have all the appliances running.

Well said

I suspect you could optimize this setup by putting the panels in a SE SW configuration, although the panel foot print would probably double in size, maybe more (panels may block each others light at certain times)

I still this the little extra money to get solar tracking is worth it. It's peak output right when the sun comes up. Duck curve eliminated. You can have redundancy and do sooooo much with that

there's been some news about vertical panels, yours are close enough, apparently more efficient due to better heat removal.

Nice. And educational. However...once I figure out a Dyson-Fresnel Fractalization Sphere on a 4 cylinder Stirling...out the door you go, wacky panels!

I think some combined angles would work a little flatter peak and the polar direction high. Recently saw a video on double sided vertical panels but in that case I'm seeing you'd need battery in the middle. Probably minor if you need an overnight battery. If you need battery for cloudy days that's much more.

at my house on the grid i have east south west set up almost a flat curve

And also keeps them cooler

Can't find the video but you have one dissing hydrogen. I agree with you that hydrogen is not an energy source and is a battery. There are cleaner ways of getting hydrogen but they are less efficient. Also storage of it seems a bit of a problem but I do think there are use cases. I think Airbus using it might make sense.

If you have solar panels and you are feeding the excess energy back into the grid. Your power company may charge you more for generating to much power. If there isn’t enough load to compensate for the power being generated, it can throw the system out of balance and then blackouts. Having E-W panels helps you distribute the power your making over the course of the day instead all at one time. And the power you would be generating would be during the time there is the most load. Better help to the grid and to your wallet.

So would it make sense to affix the row of panels to like a pivot point on a shaft, and have something like a timer motor move the panels as the day progresses? Assuming its not cloudy outside you'd have full sun on the same panels the entire day, you'd still need storage but wondering if this has been done, maybe space satellite panels work like this. You could even get fancy and use sensors to detect the maximum amount of sunlight from any given angle and have it adjust automatically, hands off.

This might be a silly question. But. Will setting mirrors in the right way to focus more light on to the panels. For optimal efficiency. Help ? Or just be redundant and making work maintaining .. ie keeping mirrors and panels clean . ?

Did Chace just say "usealizing"? 😂 Had to do a double take. 2:37

A better option is a dynamic Sun tracking array... I mean sure, it's expensive and complicated but it's more fun to build.

Also wouldn’t it make sense to try and situate the panels up higher as well maybe not on top of a mountain but towards the top on the north or side depending on how the wind and land looks

Bifacial solar panels set up vertical with each face east west they make 9% more power throughout the day

In an off grid scenario your inverter and battery sizes are a factor of loads. Not really that much to do with max PV power, the MPPT can easily clip production if required. The duck curve is all good until you have a cloudy day and all your loads need served by storage.

I’ve been trying to get panels put on my place for the last year but XCEL Energy refuses to accept my application to connect to the grid. I would have to buy a huge battery bank and go completely off the grid and be totally self sufficient of the electric company, and I just can’t afford that. I’m so sick of those assholes, I was really excited about not having an electric bill anymore but they WONT allow it.

@createachanneltopost

3 ай бұрын

Sounds like net metering won't work for you, but as long as you aren't back feeding the grid you could still cover your day use with solar and power your house with the power produced.

@beyondwhatisknown

3 ай бұрын

If the politicians buy or regulate all power distribution systems like they own or regulate the roads, sewers, schools, and municipal water, you'll finally get fair treatment.

Just get more panels and have them face all 3 directions (/s)

@martylawson1638

3 ай бұрын

You joke, but as panel prices continue to drop faster than the other parts, this will become the optimal setup.

@YounesLayachi

3 ай бұрын

4 panels East West , 1 panel facing noon sun, for even flatter output ?

So get bifacial panels that can absorb light from both the front and the back, then mount them vertically. Don’t pay for twice the panels.

What, no tracking gimbal? /s

My solar panels are east-west cos thats the way my roof is....but all they do is feed an element heater for my hotwater cylinder.

if you can have big enough batteries a south facing array would be more efficient.

The curve for the east west looks more like the consumption curve but for the same amount of solar panels it's clearly not going to produce more power than the self facing. So at the end of the day your only loosing production in the middle of the day with the east west configuration.

Quack!

👍🇺🇲🙂

Those are bifacial panels though 😮

Uselizing

You lost me after mentioning the rack

Normally I look forward to news on Edison Motors, what they are doing is fascinating to me and I think exactly the right way to go on electrifying work pickups and heavy haul trucks. BUT ... these short form videos, vertical oriented, these belong on the "Shorts" tab. It's been several weeks since an actual long (and horizontal) video abut Edison Motors. So, Thumbs Down for now but still a fan of your plan for scaling diesel-electric drives down from locomotives to trucks! :)

So chance, did you go to engineering school? Or are you just mechanical genius??

TT

The size of the inverters is determined by the peak power usage + safety factor and panel orientation has nothing to do with that. Panels don't magically make AC and for basically all house appliances that's what you need

@my_channel_44

3 ай бұрын

He's probably using the modern use of 'inverter', meaning the all-in-one, which includes an MPPT module. I saw them using Growatts in a previous video. This isn't 2000, where you used an inverter charger and separate MPPT controller. Those systems are very expensive, usually 5x the cost of a single, compact all-in-one. Which yes, is what people are referring to generically as the 'inverter' these days.

@jonasstahl9826

3 ай бұрын

In general you have more peak solar power than peak load, if you want too make all your power yourself.

@beyondwhatisknown

3 ай бұрын

I assumed he meant "charger" but just used the wrong word accidentally.

A lot of lines, no actual data. Please do make an actual real data content video not puff smoke. Use the exact same panels for a week, one week using south orientation, best angling at that latitude, altitude, etc, and the next week (similar weather) in the east-west setup. The exact number of panels for both settings, lets say 8-10 panels, not more. Lets see how much energy is gathered, and what kind of battery would it be needed to store energy (each person should know their hourly consumption)

@Narrowayhomestead