Thank you very much for this. I couldnt grasp how to connect the relays to the turnout but now it makes total sense!

You got off on a completely unrelated tangent because of a power supply that had a stuck fan. For those wanting to use a PC power supply (an excellent choice, by the way), there is absolutely no need to open up the case. And some of those power supplies do not have an external switch, just a power switch on the back, although one might have to short one of the pins to ground on the plug that went to the PC motherboard, to simulate a person pressing the "power start" switch that is normally on the PC case. (In other words, the much older AT style power supplies that has an external power switch and the newer ones that simply have power applied to the motherboard continuously -- at least to that circuit that goes to that pushbutton switch that is on the case. I hope that makes sense.) And if you have the case open, you won't get killed from touching one of those low voltage DC capacitors (unless you have wet hands, in which case you shouldn't be allowed to be around electrical circuits at all). Those are just to filter the pulsating DC power (usually about 18 Volts peak DC) to a steady 18 Volts, before going through a Voltage regulator circuit -- or in modern power supplies the whole thing is done using fancy fast Silicone switching circuits -- called "switching power supplies", which are more efficient. I also have a degree in EE (actually EE + Computer engineering, and a member of the Electrical Engineering Honor Society, "HKN" or Etta Kappa Nu, from George Mason University -- AFTER having spent over 25 years in electronics. But you should not be messing around inside one of those power supplies with the power applied.

Cool approach, definitely interesting. I'm starting to to figure out controlling the point motors on my layout, I have 25 points just in and around the station. I've done quite a bit with an Arduino before, so this is worth exploring. Thanks for sharing.

This is (except for the fan sidetrack) an excellent video. Thanks much. I sent it to a 12 year old friend of mine in another state that I sent some Arduino sets to.

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

No worries, glad you enjoyed it. Background noise is an on-going problem around the layout, I typically only have enough time to do these videos on one take, so I often run trains in the background to drown out any unwanted sounds. The layout is in the basement, so everything from kids, dogs and cats running around upstairs will generate background noise in the videos. One option is to narrate the videos during the editing process, I do have the equipment for that but it is more time consuming. The other options (which I'm trying first) is to upgrade the flooring upstairs, which is currently in progress :)

Excellent "How to" John, very easy to follow. I have converted several ATX power supplies in the past, you need to bridge the green wires to make the power supply think it is connected to a motherboards, the ATX needs a resistance to make it switch on. Other than that it is the same as your AT supply. Looking forward to you other tutorials...Simon

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Liverton -Simon Thanks Simon... Yeah I didn't want to completely scare people off, so the AT power supply was a quick and easy way to do it. They are also a lot cheaper to pickup new :)

Awesome, dude. This is exactly what I plan to use on my new layout. I've already acquired my Arduino Uno. Just hope I can find the proper sketch to control this.

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

I pushed all the sketch code to GitHub, if its not here let me know - github.com/oorail/arduino-rail

@w.rustylane5650

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks, mate.

Love the video but would like to know has there been any advancement of this module? I am interested in controlling multiple points with a switch and LEDs using this method. Is it possible to have a diagram of the wiring?

with atx power supply just connect a switch between the green wire on the 24 pin connector and any black wire to turn it on.

I got it all the way correct until the point when I get ready to attach the 3 wires (in my case 3 screws), to the relay outs. Using two of the relays at that. I think that each side (relay) would control a direction? Then you used a external power source from some where (where you added that connector). Did you run the positive that positive 15v directly to one of the point's wires? (Positive 5v)? Do the other 2 wires from the points connect to the "closed" side of each relay? Thanks! You did help me a lot. LOL

I went with ATX so I could make it switch on via remote the ATX has a 5 volt stand by which can be used to power a Arduino nano and a remote receiver so I can turn all on from anywhere in the room

Did you ever take this to the next step and actually control the points/turnouts with switches to operate the relays via the arduino?

@Oorail

2 жыл бұрын

Hello Bruce. Yes but I swapped the arduino out for ESP8266 and ESP32 devices on the layout. I will be making the code available in an upcoming video. So stay tuned!

How about using one of the Chinese LED 12 volt power supplies? Are they "clean" enough for driving the relay board? I plan on using a 9 volt wall wart to power my Arduino.

hi can you please help me first time i have ever fitted surface mounted points PecoPL11's they are connected to a CDU all are brand new when i throw the switch you can hear it click both ways but the point dose not come over its running on a pc power pack 12v 30amp is it because the voltage is wrong ?

Hey! Great video, actually went and bought one myself, but I have a few questions- So I am using a red board, but its basically just a knock off identical to an ardiuno uno- just to get that out of the way 1- Do you know a nice way to control every relay with an uno without running out of digital pins? I thought I was being very smart and set up a spare 5V relay I had lying around to control one point (what I am calling the set of two relays needed) with a single wire to the arduino, but then I realised that I would need a third relay for every point, and that would get a bit silly. Ok, that's really the only question.... If you are still using this though I would love to know how exactly you have it set up, oh and also I would like to avoid using the analog pins of the uno as digital ones because that would still leave me with only 4 pins free. Once again great vid, I'd highly appreciate any advice anyone could offer.

@jacobw446

6 жыл бұрын

Mega! Or use two uno's...

Very interesting are you going to use this in a computerprogram for your layout?

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Jan Verhoef Yes thats the plan... The next step for the point motors will be to build a capacitive discharge unit so that I don't have to use as many relays. When I'm done, it should be possible to program routes etc.

Hello John. Great video! I am wondering though, how would you provide a (visual) feedback through LED? I am planning to have my layout both run on DCC and on DC (for when the kids are using it).

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Chris Wisselo I'm planning on using a voltage and current sensor hooked up to the Arduino as a means of indicating which way the points are thrown. However, I am still waiting for the voltage sensors to arrive. You could then use the sensor information to power an LED or display something on an LCD. A simple option would be to wire an LED and resistor to the track, this would only work though if there was power applied to the track.

@chriswisselo4329

8 жыл бұрын

+oorail.com John, you are using the arduino to control the relays, wouldn't it be easier to tie a LED somehow to that?

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Chris Wisselo Well the problem is that the Arduino only knows that the relay has been triggered a particular way. It doesn't know the actual state of the physical point. You could code it up by assumption that its starting in a particular state, but what happens if the point doesn't switch properly or someone manually pushes it to a different state? Adding the voltage sensor to one or both directions of the point, the Arduino can get some sensor data as to which way the point is actually in, plus it can detect faults (not thrown either way) and get you voltage data at that point on the track. You could then use that data to trigger an LED if you wanted to.

@chriswisselo4329

8 жыл бұрын

+oorail.com Very true... Are you going to adjust the system so it will only take 1 relay per switch?

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Chris Wisselo Yes this involves building a Capacitor Discharge Unit (CDU), there are a couple of ways to build these, the one I settled on uses two 4700 uF capacitors and can drive several point motors at once. I put together a prototype last month, waiting on some euro-style PCB terminal blocks to arrive from Element14 (should be this week). I have one section of the layout (the third rail line) that I want to fully automate, so thats one of the other reasons for the voltage/current sensors - route setting etc.

Have you considered bagging the relays and going solid state? A Ti L293 or L293 ($2) could be controlled by an Adafruit ESP8266 ($10) running your existing Arduion code. Much smaller foot print, no relays.

@Oorail

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks John. Yes this is a good suggestion and one that I did look into. The problem with L293 is that the maximum current draw supported by the chip is around 600mA, while a point motor like the PL-10 will draw about 2A and the gaugemaster ones I have I think draw even more. Since point motors are only tripped for a second or two, a small heat sink may do enough to protect the chip. That said, the ESP8266 platform is definitely the way to go. There are a number of ESP8266 devices I am currently experimenting with for a variety of Tech Tuesday projects. I have a stack of L293d chips, so when I get a chance I will experiment some more with your suggestion. I'm not actually too concerned about the footprint as the relay board, arduino mega and an ESP8266 board are mounted to the underside of the baseboard, centrally to a bunch of point motors. That said, I'm going to shop around, see if I can find a better IC option that can handle higher current draws.

@russojar

6 жыл бұрын

This is some info I got on a forum I had posted on about this for my own set up. It may be of interest with regard to your power draw. "if your solenoids need less than 1.2A you might want to look at the TB6612 breakout: www.adafruit.com/product/2448 The TB6612 works like the L293D, but has a higher current rating. If you end up needing more than 1.2A, the DRV8871 can handle up to 3.6A: www.adafruit.com/product/3190 Both of them take logic input signals, so they won't put any load on the microcontroller driving them."

on a atx pc type all you have to do to is place a switch from the green lead to a black lead green is ps on grey is ps good send it to a led threw a 2.2 K ohm resistor

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

+Jamie Phillips thanks that's a good suggestion. The AT power supplies are cheaper and don't require any extra mods though...

@God-CDXX

7 жыл бұрын

I am using 2 ATX units to power my lego and raspberry PI'S no mods no load resistors the ATX I am using 1 came from a P4 the other from a P2 towers

@henrystinson3173

7 жыл бұрын

That is confusing to me. I do know that there is one pin on the motherboard connector that can be shorted to ground with a switch to turn on or off the power supply. I looked it up, and now your instructions make sense if you apply them to the big motherboard plug. Here is what I found using Google: Step 1: Search! Just look after the green wire in the cable tree from the PSU. (by "cable tree" they mean the many wired plug that goes to the motherboard.) Step 2: Connect! Now it's time for the wire.Bend the wire and close up the little green plug from the big ATX plug to any other BLACK plug. ... (In other words, just short the green wire to a black wire using pushbutton switch that you wire to those two wires. Hope I said that clearly.) I guess the grey wire on the motherboard plug can be used as +5V to light an LED through a resistor.

Note that some turnout "motors" -- many of which are actually just solenoids -- require power to just be applied momentarily, not left on (which might burn out some such motors/solenoids or at least load down the system with unnecessary power drainage). Arduino can be programmed to turn on power to a motor/solenoid, sleep a few milliseconds and then turn that power off. Also note that some turnout motors/solenoids require 16 Volts A.C., such as the surface mount Peco "motors" PL-11. I'm going to have to carefully research what kind of power to apply to the Peco PPCPL10E's that I have and to the Kato turnouts I plan to use in certain places. Also, for those who don't care about visual reality so much, Atlas makes some turnouts that have their own "motors" (which I suspect are actually just solenoids). Some people have complained about certain N scale Atlas turnouts derailing some engines and cars, but most work oK. I only use Peco turnouts for my N scale layout, except where I plan to use the fabulous Kato double and single double-track crossovers. (Look those up.) It just requires some extra work when ballasting to make them blend in with other track.

@God-CDXX

7 жыл бұрын

10 -- 14 volts dc will trigger these

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

Think you might want to watch the whole video, around 35:00, I demonstrate that you only apply power for a split second, basically the arduino tosses the relay on/off to drive the point motor. The Peco PL-11 motor is actually the one in this video that I'm driving with 12v DC, you can drive them with AC, but keeping things DC is probably safer, and prevents making mistakes. The HO scale Atlas turnouts are awful, I used a couple on the original part of the layout here around Chippenham Junction station for some sidings. A lot of locos have problems with them, and they are visually awful :)

@God-CDXX

7 жыл бұрын

my circuit fires for about 3/4 seconds I will put up a circuit of my driver

So is it not a problem to use a lower voltage on the point motor since it's designed to use 16V?

@Oorail

6 жыл бұрын

Nope obviously not from the video :) Most point motors can run off 12V DC - 16V AC, check the specs for your specific point motors obviously.

Hi, I have watched this video several times now, it is really interesting informative and helpful, i hope you dont mind if i ask a couple of questions. 1 do you have to use the 12 volt relay board or can you use the 5 volt board? 2 i am hopeless when it comes to understanding the programming side but i think i could manage the hardware side, would you mind if i copied your code/sketch to operate what i want to do? i am currently building an n gauge layout (there are a couple of videos of it on youtube) and i have approximately 70 sets of points/turnouts and uncouplers on my layout and i would like to automate it using the Arduino system, maybe later on even add signals, I have researched it and i think the Arduino Mega board would probably have enough capacity for what i need. My system is all Fleischmann and the turnouts and uncouplers all run on 16 volts ac i believe. Is this something that is do-able or not? I know there are loads of questions here but i would really appreciate your help.

@henrystinson3173

7 жыл бұрын

I am planning on doing something similar, but am concerned that the Arduino boards, even the Mega, do not have enough separate outputs. Like your layout, I expect to have about that many (around 70 or so) once I am finished. Right now I have a 16.5 foot long N scale complex switch yard with roundhouse and multiple tracks and sidings running through the town next to the yard. I counted turnouts once and it came out to somewhere around 35 or 45, I'll have to count again. If I install under the track servos or tortoises, I'll have to remove a lot of track and drill a lot of holes through the plywood. The extension to the layout that I'm building uses foam board, which should be easier, plus I'll put in the tortoises (or servos) before I permanently fasten down the track. Anyway, I'm wondering if the Arduino boards can be configured to somehow multiplex to control more than the few I/O connections they have. Any ideas?

@henrystinson3173

7 жыл бұрын

In other words, I'm thinking I might have to use multiple Arduino boards, perhaps controlled in sets by other "master" boards that determine certain preset routes.

OK, everything is there but how are you doing to activate the turn out ,It's not written in your code... toggle switch, button? To me that the only thing missing. coding a little long try array..shorting you code.

@Oorail

4 жыл бұрын

That code is just example code to show how to use the relay, its supposed to be simple so folks can understand what is going on. Could have moved the block into a function and just passed in the relay number. Stay tuned to the channel though, something a bit more sophisticated is on the way. :)

can this run a tortoise switch matchine. they are stall motors, meaning they are always powered.

@cardboardboxification

6 жыл бұрын

Here is a start for you,,, yes you can use a double pole relay so power in the middle then it will power the nc contacts ( normally closed). Then power the relay to switch to the no ( normally open contacts) for the other direction ... I’m don’t know of the frog you have to reverse power or just power to each side for left right www.google.com/amp/s/rudysmodelrailway.wordpress.com/2015/01/25/new-arduino-dcc-servo-and-function-decoder-software/amp/

You have to be the 'proud' owner of the world's dullest diagonal side cutters.

How do you plan to drive 8 Switch Motors with out 16 digital outputs on the Arduino?

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

Using an Arduino Mega which has 54 digital outputs and 16 analogue ones :)

@jayfuller3709

7 жыл бұрын

How will the code work? Do you plan on making it available?

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

The code is an expanded version of the prototyping code I have up on GitHub. Yes I will definitely be making it available. Keep an eye on the channel, I'll be uploading a video in a few days that'll explain why there has been very little activity on the channel for the past 12 months...

@jayfuller3709

7 жыл бұрын

Any updates as of yet??

Now need to modify the code to use a Push Button Switch. Want the long delay to prevent kids from damaging the coils of the railroad switches.

Hi , I am another of your long term subscribers. Do you have a wiring diagram for this Arduinos project ? You can make available . Regards Robert

@Oorail

4 жыл бұрын

Robert you can find the sketch over at github.com/oorail/arduino-rail/tree/master/point-motors/relay I believe you just wire the relay module up so you are connecting the contacts together when it throws, then you just have to wire the control pin to an Arduino pin for each relay. This is controlled in the sketch by: #define RELAY1 6 #define RELAY2 7 #define RELAY3 8 #define RELAY4 9 I can definitely put together a diagram, I still have the board configured on my workbench, so I'll use it to put together a diagram and will push it up to GitHub referenced above tonight.

@oceancity1042

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you in advance for the wiring diagram. Did you consider using a CDU to assist the movement of the Peco point motor? Regards Robert

@Oorail

4 жыл бұрын

@@oceancity1042 Yeah I started building my own CDUs, I'll do a video soon. On the diagram, the relay module has a low-level pin for each relay, these go to the Arduino pins to control each relay. You put the power and point motor on either side of the relay, so when the relay is active you connect the power and point motor together to complete the circuit. A CDU would be a better option, I had no issues throwing the peco point motors directly though.

One Arduino will operate how many single switches

@Oorail

4 жыл бұрын

You need one digital i/o pin to control each relay. So if you want to control a 16-relay unit, you will need 16 digital i/o pins. The arduino uno has 14 digital i/o pins, so you could technically run 14 off a single uno, however you may want to use digital pins for other things, such as communications. A good design option is to use CDU (Capacitor Discharge Units) and look at how you use the points. For example, if you have points used in pairs (eg. connected together), then you need to throw them in pairs, so a larger CDU and just using a single digital i/o pin. I typically use either Arduino Mega (which has a lot of digital i/o) or cheaper esp32 or esp8266 units, which are also wifi enabled.

Two train sets in 1 LOL. Don't you have to use C++ or python for the Arduino? How do you rate it to the raspberry pi.

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+silverfox2358 Yes, the syntax in the Arduino IDE is basically C. Raspberry Pi is also a very good embedded platform, you could use either. I will be doing some projects with the new Raspberry Pi in a few weeks..

By the way, that "big clunky button" he was handling is the really dangerous part. Which is why it is safer to use a more modern PC power supply that only has a low voltage (5 Volts DC) to the wire that has to be grounded (no sparking will occur, because current is limited) to cause the power supply to turn on the 12 VDC and 5 VDC output wires.

@Oorail

7 жыл бұрын

+Henry Stinson lol the big clunky button isn't dangerous at all. Lot faster to get rolling out of the box with an AT PSU and they are a lot cheaper :)

@MobileTaz

7 жыл бұрын

Uhh yeah it is dangerous. It is switching line (mains) voltage - meaning if any of those insulators get moved to expose metal, you can zap yourself. And you can get ATX supplies for about $10 on ebay.

Do you have a image or schematics of this project?

@Oorail

5 жыл бұрын

FYI. I will be resurrecting this project in a couple of weeks, so expect some updates. Are you asking for the Arduino sketch or something else? You can download it from github.com/oorail/arduino-rail/tree/master/point-motors/relay

There is now a thread of these Tech Tuesday Arduino projects over on rmweb - www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107876-arduino-video-tutorials-for-model-railways/

should have been two videos, one for the power supply and one for the Arduino part

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

lol... why? :)

@stevebryce-grant1107

8 жыл бұрын

A large portion was about the POWER SUPPLY, which was very good and if on it's own I am sure you could have gone into a bit more detail. Then a second video for this Arduino which also could have been in more detail, at one point you say that we have seen how you tested the program, but that is not in this video. And two 30 minuet videos are better than one over 50 minuets. I would have liked to see more on the Arduino as that is what the title of the video was all about.

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Stephen Bryce-Grant Thanks this is great feedback. So the reason I rolled them into the one video was that while working on the relay board video, I realized you needed a 12V DC power source to drive it. Rather than wait another week for the point motors I did a bit of a quick video on how to get the 12V DC power source easily. Can you give me an idea of what other bits of information / detail you would have liked to see on the power supply side? There really isn't much more I think I could have done, as from maybe opening it on video, but thats just four screws! As for the Arduino said, I'm much more interested in what extra you would like to see there and I'll incorporate that into future videos. When I'm filming the Arduino videos I'm actually using multiple video sources so sometimes I will say something and then not need that, and drop it while editing. I think the testing part was the bit about the serial port monitor? If thats the case, I decided not to include that because the video was about 51 minutes long. The tech tuesday video coming out today does walk you through the serial monitor, although it will be out a bit later than planned today as we were hit with a heavy snow storm, so I had some other tasks and errands that I had to run this morning / afternoon before the next round of snow hits us! :) This is great feedback, so please keep it coming!

@stevebryce-grant1107

8 жыл бұрын

As you say in this the video being about 51 minuets long, that could have been about 30 minuets for each, I have a Power Supply made from a PC but the newer version so I have a 3.3v which is really handy for LED's as you no longer have to worry about resistors, these connections will be for lights in buildings. I will have to look though more Arduino videos before I commit myself to them or their Asian counterparts. But now to rest my poor old brain I will just watch the layout videos and see the progress as I slowly get closer to the latest videos. I did see one where you used the tall cylinder to hide the corner which I did find very clever and made a note of it just incase I need to disguise a corner on my layout.

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Stephen Bryce-Grant I will do a video in a few weeks on the Chinese Arduinos, they use a slightly different chip and require some device drivers to be installed to work right after the first upload. You basically need the CH340/CH341 driver installed on your computer. It wasn't too difficult on the Mac or under Linux. You should never connect an LED directly to the DC supply, always use a resistor, regardless of the voltage. The lower voltage just means you use a smaller resistor, not no resistor. For the 12V DC supply, I think I was using around at least a 470 Ohm resistor, for the grain of wheat style bulbs I use a 1kOhm resistor. If you don't use a resistor, sooner or later something will melt! This weeks Tech Tuesday video explains the serial monitor a bit more and has some live examples of it... Yes the tall cylinder is actually HVAC duct work, I think I used the 5" diameter, 2 foot high aluminum stuff. There will be another update on the power station in a few weeks, I couldn't get the intricate architectural features I wanted with the printer / knife / scissors approach. So after seeing a few people with those Silhouette Portrait cutters, I put an order in for one, should have it in about a week or so.

Hi John interesting tried your link to git hub but got a 404 response neil

@Oorail

8 жыл бұрын

+Neil Hall Sorry about that, copy and pasted the wrong link, I updated the description but here it is as well - github.com/oorail/arduino-rail/tree/master/point-motors/relay

While overall an informative documentary on Arduino aplication to point control, the repetative descriptions and ham fisted prop useage utterly spoil the progam, Script your next one, describe, re-inforce, move on. Sectional edits facilitate getting your point across. Keep at it.

@TheGodsrighthandman

7 жыл бұрын

The guy's an amateur hobbyist sharing his experiences and advice with people in an informal manner, he's NOT George Lucas or Cecil B. de-bloody-Mille!! YOU need to get yourself a handkerchief cos you're really very snotty!

Bloody hell, get to the POINT

@Oorail

4 жыл бұрын

LOL. Thats clever. This video is designed for beginners so things are probably a little over-explained, but that is so folks don't miss key concepts. I can start pushing more advanced content, but that usually gets complaints the other way. :)