😂 I’ve messed up a ton of finish combinations. We all have. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. My issues come from lack of patience normally. Very insightful video. People struggle because finishing is a minefield that is walked right at the end of the project when the stakes are highest. Practice on scrap, best advice to give.

There's days I feel like KZread can read my mind and serves me up a dose of REALITY to get my logic circuits firing. I bought a beat up Höfner Colorama from Facebook for $50 and I really want to give this guitar back its' splendour. I've researched it and know what materials comprise the body and neck, with that I'm eager to strip and repaint. I've seen some beautiful sunburst techniques using hand rubbed leather dyes (Angelus brand) that I know would look beautiful .. then this video pops up as a reminder to SLOW RIGHT DOWN. So thank you for that ...I'm going to head out and pick up some scraps of South American mahogany and maple to run some tests with the dyes before I commit them to my project. I have a really good idea of the look I want, now I just need to see if it will actually work.

One of the best decisions I've made as a builder was to practice doing a carved top on a cheap piece of maple. I had a beautiful $300 piece of quilted maple that I was afraid to cut into. I made a few mistakes on the cheap piece that would have ruined the nice top. By the time I was done with the practice I learned enough to do a good job on the nice top. Then I used the cheap piece to practice spraying finish and using a buffing wheel for the first time. So glad I did that.

This video is by far the #1 best advice anyone can get. ALWAYS test on scrap first! Even after several decades of woodworking and hobby building guitars I still do this when trying a new product or technique. I'd rather spend a little time testing on scrap and finding out something doesn't work well than days or longer of headache and agony attempting to fix it on the guitar.

Great advice 👍. Patience is the key to a quality job!

Very wise words, Chris. I learn a lot from your videos, and today's episode is no exception. Thanks a lot!

This comes just in time as I bought a new dye to try! Thanks for the reminder!!!

I have had great success with finishing techniques and products recommended by you. I always have tested the finish on scrap samples to make sure I have a process that works. Many thanks for your excellent recommendations!

I have been watching your channel for a while and honestly you are one of the best luthier I have come a cross the way you think and a analyse before going a head. In medical practice it is SOAP and found your way is very similar and I salute you and thank you for sharing your valued experience, dealing also with certain people certainly requires a skills and experience too. Again thank you and keep the good work going . Best kind regards from ENGLAND 👍👏

You are so right! I've experienced all the issues you could think of and I still make mistakes that I could have avoided had I done a test piece. Unfortunately, good finishes take prep. patience, and time. It's that simple.

very savvy words !!!

Good advice

great advice- Solo Music gear sells nitro finishing packages for a multitude of colours with compatable grain filler, primer ,top coats buffing compounds etc- a great way to stay on track during the process -super informative, keep up the great work !

Hi Chris, Thanks for another great and helpful video. I don’t have the years of experience you have but I still occasionally get questions on specific issues on my channel and I find it really hard to give a good answer all though I really would like to. There are so many factors involved. My biggest challenge when it comes to your advice today is impatience. I frequently ruin things because I can’t wait. What can I say…. learning by doing I guess…. it’s part of the fun 😅

The two axioms in woodworking; test on scrap, and measure twice, cut once. The first one applies to finishes, but definitely practice different techniques like routing on scrap before you do it on your guitar. When I decided to set up a full time workshop for building guitars back in the 80s, I walked into the local woodworking machine store (this is before there was a Home Depot, and this business catered to professionals), to buy a Delta 14” band saw. I saw a thing called a “biscuit jointer” and had no idea what it was. In fact I didn’t know what most of the machines did. So I got some books on basic woodworking and woodworking machines. And I still have them. One was the Router Handbook. Another was Mastering Woodworking Machines, and the Bandsaw Handbook. Also books on finishing. I also subscribed to Fine Woodworking magazine. These books and magazines are mostly about building furniture, cabinets, and the like. But it’s all woodworking. And it all applies. After I learned the correct way to use the machines I started building some guitars. Of course I had used routers and stuff in the past. But my point is learn the basics first.

My first kit is in progress, and I was lucky that my local lumber shop had scrap wood that matched the guitar body. Not only did I test my finish plan, but I also learned good and bad ways to apply the products.

Most people, especially those who have little to none finishing/refinishing experience tend to fantasize about how easy and amazing a project will look after seeing a few videos or hearing about some product that makes everyone look pro. You said it well and fairly and I truly enjoy your channel! On top of testing on scrap, people need to realize that finishing is a nack that is perfected over many, many hours (years) of practice with many mistakes.

Had the same issue with Solarez on an Alder body after dying with Angelus leather dyes. It seems that the grain sealer product can lift this alcohol-based dye after it dries, which tints the Solarez. I found that when Solarez is contaminated with an aniline dye material, it can have a difficult time curing in even the most direct and bright sun exposure. For an instrument where you have applied a liquid dye, I would recommend against a wipe-on sealer product and instead would endorse a spray-on sealer in very light coats. Once the dye has been sealed under very light and fine coats of a spray-on product, then you can apply the high-gloss top coat with success. If you have spray equipment, check out the Solarez sprayable sealer. If you need something in an aerosol can which can seal in aniline dye, I'd recommend Mohawk pre-catalyzed sanding sealer in 3-4 VERY fine coats.

Agree completely. I am this guy. I have a wall of guitars that I've messed up at some point in the build. I was given this info when I was younger and ignored it completely.

" Stupid is, as stupid does." Some of the wisest words ever spoken.

I recommend going to a garage or rummage sale, or a Good Will type place and get at $10-&20 guitar. I've got a couple of them so I could get familiar with stuff before I started working on my real guitars. I now use them when I get new tools or finishing products to get the feel of them. Well worth the couple of bucks just to get familiar with some of the processes. Like a practice dummy. Sometimes you can make those crappy instruments into fairly decent ones.

YEA VERILY! It's like someone asking: "How do you play guitar?" Quite intricate, vastly complex and nuanced. You have to experience the process and become intimately familiar. I am self-taught, that's how it had to be fo' me! No one can teach how to express a feeling, it is but an extension of yourself. Each individual has to master that personally. As far as building technicalities and advice? Personal responsibility and precaution. If I mess up, only I am to blame. 🤣🤗😎

Good video, Chris. Yes...test on scraps! I have a guy that does my bodies and necks with a CNC machine. I love doing the rest, with my favorite part being the finishing. I don't get too wild with my finishes, but when I do want to try something new, I ask my guy for scraps to experiment on. He gives me those quality scraps at a budget price. But yes, if you are going to try something new to you, test on scraps!!!!!! Thanks for the video.

Hi I really enjoy and benefit from all your videos many thanks👍 regarding the Angelus dyes ‘incident’ you must always use the sanding sealer or filler first THEN the dye. It feels counter intuitive but you will end up with the greatest most even results particularly on hard surfaces like maple which can turn out awfully patchy if you apply dye first

I can second the Angelus "Dark Brown" dye does not like solarez grain filler AT ALL lol. It ruined my guitar as well. Lesson learned! This is a good video with great advice!

Great and sensible advice

Great advice. I work in the computer field and the same rules apply there. Test, test, test.

In the UK we have this wood finish by Rustin's calied Plastic Coating. It's a twin pack so you mix in hardener. It's actually the finish that Brian May used on his home made guitar. I think the name maybe puts people off but it is a spectacularly good wood finish for instruments. Super tough and brings out the grain absolutely beautifully. However, with this finish you have to follow strict procedure for overcoating. Experimentation beforehand is vital if you haven't used it before.There is a short window of time before the next coat will wrinkle the underlying ones. I have experimented eough to be able to use it perfectly now including creating opaque layers with added pigment to create any colour.

@HighlineGuitars

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I think people are scared of how toxic this product is.

@ryanstark2350

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@@HighlineGuitars It has really toxic fumes so you have to work in a well ventilated area.

Chris, you should take this video down! How dare you expect people to take accountability for themselves and their mistakes!

@MashaT22

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😂😂😂 I second your sentiments, @Daniel Miller! I don't understand how people can get mad when Chris constantly tells everyone to test before doing anything on the guitar. This advice really extends to any type of modification on the body while working, not just paint and such. Not sure if the wood is too hard/soft for screws that came with parts like bridges, pickups rings, pick guards, etc.? Never did inlays on ______ type of wood? Get scrap wood and test! Here's some advice on getting scraps. If you're using a premade kit where you don't have scrap, I bet you can ask the manufacturer to mail a scraps for a small added fee. You could also buy a duplicate body/neck, if price is no object. Next best option is to bring the body and neck to a lumber supplier so they can try to get you scraps of the closest wood. And if you're really building from scratch, you will have scraps as you cut the wood. There's really no excuse. Please stop pointing fingers at Chris when you don't heed his advice!

thank you

Or better yet; get a finish guy who knows what he's doing. We all like the woodworking part best anyway! Just my humble opinion. (Great video Chris, you held it together and didn't insult anyone! You're getting really good at this!)

I have a guitar that I was considering repainting. Because I knew that I was going to need to practice, I bought a scrap body off Reverb dirt cheap to practice on. I didn't want to ruin my guitar's finish because I was still learning, so I went that route. I could have gotten a scrap piece of wood, but I knew that the contours of the guitar could present a challenge in the process, so I got a scrap body instead. First try went pretty well, but I did have some problems with the clear coat running, especially in the contours near the neck pocket (horns or upper bouts) as I expected might happen. The clear never fully hardened either. I'm going to give it another go next summer on the scrap body if I can find it in my messy garage. Point is, you should always try what you're going to try on something that won't be a big deal if it doesn't work, or you need to practice. Honestly, I'll probably repaint and sand down that scrap body 20-30 times before I'm confident enough to try it on one of my babies. I guess the point here is you have to be patient and willing to test things out on stuff that won't matter if it messes up.

I have found that water based stains the very forgiving. You can push the color around and sand back as needed. sealer is a small challenge if you don't use a spray. I have carefully dabbed on grain filler after stain and preserved the stain work. Never be afraid to sand back and try again. You have a ton of wood left.

The climate where you live is really a factor. I live in a pretty dry place and never even experienced some issues until I had a guitar shipped from another place. The guitar wood dried a bit over a few months and I discovered a lil fret sprout.

For one, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge regarding building and finishing a guitar. But to try to put blame on you for their results are a little ridiculous.

@tommymartinez1788

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I agree 100%

I've built 3 guitars in 3 years, and the topics that you listed are exactly those that you can only build experience with by doing, and knowing what you're doing. A demonstration of the skill helps. But you definitely need to get your hands dirty in order to understand how much tedious work it all entails and how necessary it is.

It would then be good to emphasis, on every video, that room temp, humidity, and general usage can have a radical effect on staining and modifying a guitar

The sad reality is that most of us only learn to make good decisions by making bad decisions. I spent a couple of days resanding and reapplying (properly the second time!) a pore filler I’d never used before. Lesson learned!

I think with the explosion of diy guitar building on YT, it can maybe begin to look easy. Then you start actually doing it and notice issue after issue that can occur, especially with finishing ime.

Hi Chris, new to your channel. Great info. Doing a building now. Struggling with what finish to put on the guitar neck. Thinking tru oil on the body. I’ve practiced with linseed oil on a board. I like the feel of it however concerned that it won’t last. Thanks for your help. LexG

@HighlineGuitars

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Tru Oil works great on a guitar neck and it's based on linseed oil. Using BLO by itself on a neck will require periodic reapplication.

@MyLexG

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@@HighlineGuitars That’s what I have gathered through my research. Just wanted the pro to affirm. Thanks looking forward to more vids ! LexG

I've been building for a while now and can think of a few things that I think newer guys overlook that drove me insane in the past. First of all, there are no words that can sufficiently emphasize the fact that weather is a complete game changer when it comes to finishing guitars, or any wood product for that matter. Shooting a guitar in a space that is non temperature controlled is inviting issues, especially in cold northern or humid southern climates. There are just chemicals and they haven't been tested in every type of condition. They aren't going to work perfectly in every situation. You HAVE to do a little experimentation before committing to the finishing products you're going to use. Secondly, there are hundreds of products out there that have their own specific chemical make up and they aren't pre tested with every other product on the market for compatibility. There are just don't work well together. It happens all the time. I've ruined a few really nice guitars forgetting to test a process before employing it. A good way to avoid this type of issue is to try to find products that are made by the same company. Most of the ones out there have a primer to top coat system that works together perfectly and It's the sure way to avoid incompatibility. Otherwise, ask before you buy.. Finally, take your time. Let the drying process happen and allow the guitar to really absorb and bond with the paint. Even though it feels dry, it's probably not going to be dry enough to layer for at least 24 hours. If you have multiple projects going at the same time, this is a great way to alleviate the boredom of watching the paint to try, so to speak. Move on to something else until the project is ready for the next stage. Anyway, that's my experience. Hope it helps.

Test on scrap wood is also what Stew Mac says

It's sort of like blaming the weatherman for the weather. 🌩 ALWAYS test everything out on scrap, especially with finishes! Glues can even be a problem. Test it out on glued scrap, etc. Prototyping things is a time saver.

I worked at a certified cabinet shop when I was young. The shop was open to giving young people their first job and training them on the technology and methods over time. The typical entry level job was sanding and only a very few outstanding workers earned the position of "painter", who was responsible for spraying finishes and supervising the sanders. A sander would typically work for at least a couple of years and have lots of exposure to the craft of the painter before they earned a promotion. There was no way in the world that we would have turned a beginner loose with a sprayer and a set of cabinets that the rest of the shop had invested time and materials to build. Yet, people who have not worked with their hands before want to produce guitars that look as good as Gibson's or Fender custom shop. I'm sorry but that is not always possible..

@HighlineGuitars

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And yet many succeed.

it wouldn't be a bad idea just to test on a scrap of wood that isn't the same wood. Really when it comes to finishes especially the high gloss ones... this is just something that takes a lot of practice. It took me forever to figure out how to get a nice high gloss on metal. Be it I started trying to paint bikes when I was a kid. BUT I couldn't learn anything from a neighbor who was a master autobody until I built up enough ways on what not to do to be able to really retain what he could teach me. I practiced on a junk bike until I got it down right (and many trips back to my neighbor.) Practice on any old chunk of wood. Screw it up and than see if you can fix it. Worst case sand the old wood chunk back down to wood and try from scratch again.

This wasn’t on a guitar, I have used lacquer over latex paint before. The trick is using something between the paint and lacquer that doesn’t react to either. I used a clear shellac based product after the paint and before the lacquer. I used at least 2 coats between paint and lacquer, and allowed plenty of drying time between any of the finishes. I love how those drawer fronts look because the paint was thin enough you can see the grain of the wood still.

Oh I've learned the hard way. It's never fun, but at least the lesson sinks in.

Where did you learn your trade? Any formal training ?

@HighlineGuitars

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No formal training. I’m completely self taught.

Can I spray nitrocellulose clear coat over a satin primer+paint color?

@HighlineGuitars

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Possibly. You have to sets to see if the nitro is compatible with the primer and paint.

@jacobsamano9761

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@@HighlineGuitars thank you for responding! I went back to the store to get the correct clear coat spray that is compatible with the primer+paint color spray that I used. It says after I apply my clear coat(s) that I should wait 24hours before moving onto the next step (rubbing compound and polishing compound). Any recommendations on how I should apply these 2 products correctly?

From the pic I thought it might be about the musical properties of epoxy in a resonant instrument...

I'm making my first at the moment, and I tried everyone on spares out of morbid fear of failure

People don't want to take the time to learn something anymore. And that takes having failures.

After watching this video, I’ve come to realize “common sense” isn’t necessarily so common. Why, on Earth, would anyone, without experience, *not* do at least *some* testing? It’s just asking for trouble.