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When the artist for dragon's crown was accused of sexism for drawing only sexy ladies, he dedicated to those accusers a series of homoerotic man dwarf art. Not to please them, but to shut them up. This is what wizards should have done. Not bow down, but prove them wrong. Post a drawing of a black human and an orc side by side with the obvious differences written down to mock those who made the comparison. Wheelchair accessible dungeons? Draw a comic where the evil wizard builds stairs in front of the disabled character only for them to summon a mount or use mechanical spider legs to climb up.

@Amin-al-Husseini_1941picture

5 күн бұрын

or make a lift cause the wizard who owned the catacombs was too tired to go up the stairs due to his 8 strenght and constitution lol or give a disabled character an extra feat or something

To quote one of the people behind "Rings of Power": “It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien's work would reflect what the world actually looks like”. That's the problem. When you try to make it relatable to such an extent that it comes across as 21st century people (some with pointy ears), the fantasy suffers. But it's WotC's table - people either (literally) buy into it, or go homebrew or OSR. Good rant. Subbed.

@Amin-al-Husseini_1941picture

5 күн бұрын

do all people paly dnd? no, do all play Tetris? no, do all play RP? no if you try to include everyone and make it relatable to everyone all you make is a grey mass of dissapointment

@olster2074

Күн бұрын

The muppets behind the Rings of Power have demonstrated unerring ignorance of the source material. Calling it in any way Tolkien is a violation decency and honesty. In no way is Tolkien's work, regardless of the medium, enhanced by shoehorning in modern extremist sensibilities.

The vast majority of art that has come down from WotC the last 5 years is very much... a different vibe. Eapecially 90+% of what's been shown for D&D2024. I call it "Cozy D&D". It's not about adventure and conflict. It's sad.

@bobhill-ol7wp

5 күн бұрын

It is the symptom of a system where 95% of players you find fishing online absolutely hate the idea of any possible character death lol Then there are those weird third party setting books where literally nothing interesting is happening, or if there is some random festival gets more attention than that really awesome hook that gets mentioned once (Beastworlds)

@Amin-al-Husseini_1941picture

5 күн бұрын

@@bobhill-ol7wp "we shouldnt have rolls for stats" was a big mistake as well for those people that complain about how boring the current DnD is no more flavourful Wizard, with 19 in strenght and 17 in intellect or a paladin with 8 strenght but 19 constitution whos tankier than the barbarian

@kalajel

5 күн бұрын

I've been told that it looks like generic stock art. Soulless, just people smiling empty smiles, pretending to do a task, no story being told. That seems fitting.

When I play DnD I want to go into a strange new world... Not my own.

To be honest I’m personally annoyed / upset by the removal of half races (not like it’s going to stop me tho). Especially when stuck in a dump half races is an easy way to get started with a backstory and characterisation if u wish to focus on balancing both races. Also since this is clearly an orc video in disguise, I absolutely need the Orcs to bring back their FREAK. 4:14 like that is NOT an Orc. It’s okay to be an ugly monster

@justhero

10 күн бұрын

@@teaandbiscuits6808 When they say they're removing half races, its more like they're allowing everything to mix with everything. So like, there won't be dedicated pages for half orcs or half elves anymore, you can just go to your DM and be like, yo lemme be a half dwarf. You gain the racial features of one or the other, your choice and essentially get more aesthetic flavouring. More boring in technical terms though, so I defo get where you're coming from. And yeah, in hindsight, defo an orc rant in disguise.

@zixserro1

7 күн бұрын

I think the new PHB includes options for half-races, too, but they're extremely bare-bones. Like, you choose what traits from each race you want and just sort of mix and match to make your Very Special Half-Breed Boy/Girl. Meanwhile, people have made entire books devoted entirely to literally every possible two-race combination in D&D that mix them in way more interesting ways; I know Ginny D did a video about one a while back that sounded really cool.

@njfernandes87

7 күн бұрын

"this is not a video against change or gatekeeping of the hobby!" proceeds to rant about how changing things to allow more ppl to enjoy the hobby is bad...

@teaandbiscuits6808

7 күн бұрын

⁠@@zixserro1yesss I think I know what video you’re talking about, love Ginny D. And 100% agree about half races becoming bare bones and turning into a Tesco’s “pick and mix” sweet box. It’s lacking the individuality and unique traits that imo makes it stand out

@teaandbiscuits6808

7 күн бұрын

@@njfernandes87it isn’t about gatekeeping tho 😭 it’s about the changes being made that’s diluting the world they built. You don’t need to do that to be more welcoming to newer players, there’s surely other ways

Orcs were created by juan valdez in the hills or colombia where they came to build their cities producing faeruns greatest Koffee beans..slow roasted to perfection and ground to the most richest of flavors and scents.

@justhero

9 күн бұрын

You win, this actually has me cackling like a maniac.

@bjornh4664

7 күн бұрын

"Looks like cappuccino's back on the menu, boys!"

@bobhill-ol7wp

5 күн бұрын

Genuinely believed this was a quote for a second.

@OutlawJJ80

5 күн бұрын

Yes the Orcs have established popup Koffee stands ran by Saytrs selling baked Dwarven goods.

Oh, please, as if DnD5 ever looked good.

@Amin-al-Husseini_1941picture

5 күн бұрын

the art feels.. unimpressive tbh, its skillful but soulless. its like that one song with the AI german kids that just causes IRL psychic damage to me out of disgust. they are also made by tracing off of literal stock photo meetings lol.

so lore wise they grey orcs are the "friendly" orcs which the picture shows, theyve been in dnd since 3 rd edition. Tho the description says this about them "A less bestial and more civilized subrace of orcs brought to Faerûn during the Orcgate Wars through one of many Imaskari portals."

@justhero

9 күн бұрын

Yeah with all the different variations of the orcs, it also raises my issue with 5E not doing enough to differentiate between them. iirc, the monster manual literally just slaps down stat blocks for em and calls it a day. Do any of the further supplements flesh out the differences or do they just call it a day?

@TheTerrainWizard

7 күн бұрын

Back in the day orcs used to have faces like pigs/boars.

@ARealBigFatRappingMonkey

6 күн бұрын

@@justhero Grey orcs live in caves and are slightly smarter, not much nicer but you could hold a conversation with them moderately, they actually build homes for themselves, green orcs also called mountain orcs dont live in caves and are extra stupid and extra zealous, neither dress up like Mexicans or look friendly, then there's Orogs which are basically bigger grey orcs that arent stupid like the rest of them and are the leaders, still not nice though, just generally better at being raiders and whatnot, and they're all butt ugly, half-orcs are the human looking ones.

@Red_Devil_2011

3 күн бұрын

Yup. These woke race-baiting troublemakers keep inventing their own dramas. They keep insisting that they're saving us from the white racist boogeymen. When in reality: fantasy authors made a monster race to fill the role of a reliably evil faction. No need to waste time searching for shades of grey; this race was for when you wanted to describe evil. But then some people thought that this monster race looked really cool and wanted to play them. People started playing them, but they also wanted to be the good guys. *So lore changed.* Just admit that this imaginary race changed in order to meet consumer desires for roleplay. INSTEAD, certain grifters kicked up a fuss about "black coding" etc, trying to demonize innocent hobbyists. Which is made *even funnier* because they force people to ask if it's fair to draw similarities between reality and a fantasy race described as being excessively violent, greedy, quick to anger, and with a history of primitive savagery until assimilation with outside races. O.O

So D&D is going from the Lord of the Rings type of fantasy into Will Smith's Bright (2017) type of "fantasy"

@TheNanoNinja

8 күн бұрын

Bright, you should give Shadowrun a try. Just don't play SR6e. Try SR3e or SR5e.

@willchurch8376

6 күн бұрын

Bright isn't the destination of modern DnD. Shadowrun did that back when I was a kid. Bright takes place in a grim world of adventure not far off from Robocop and Predator II. DnD is trying to appeal with safety rules and dungeons designed for wheelchair access...I assume it takes place within a Twitter Argument.

Reject 5e, embrace Savage Worlds

You had me in the first 20 seconds until I saw "Oatmeal" in the desc 🤣

100% agree with everything you said. We don't need a slew of every race being able to have progeny with every other race. If that were viable, then the only possible explanation for every mix not being wildly prolific would be that every race is massively racist and insular. Half elf, half orc, both human mixes, hence both basically pushing the concept that one of humanity's greatest strengths are our sexual proliferation, which it totally fucking is in real life, we're one of the only species on the planet that is in season 365 days of the year. Should there be elf/orcs in that situation? Sure, but they're mules, unable to proliferate. Other races can just not be viable for breeding at all (though dragons and gods usually are considered to be able to break this rule) But all of that is just superfluous. What matters is that the less "evil races" you have the deeper into the monster manual people will fish for that "monster by birth, but still a soul with humanity" aspect. Vampires and Werewolves, hell, after BG3, Mind Flayers are almost certainly next on the "he's different!" lines. Hell, I was surprised that Larian had the balls to let their potential example actually ride that line of being a monstrous manipulator, perhaps too far gone into his form, or perhaps it was a nature he always had, or perhaps the form brought out the worst spots that had originally been dormant, or perhaps the same issue as Liches; remove the limitations of humanity and forget how important they are to being human. Drow and Orcs are subjects of evil gods, and sure they may not have had a choice in being bred to be monsters, but that doesn't mean they're not monsters. Look up the Silver Fox Experiment, and it really emphasizes how much influence genetics actually has over temperament, and how insanely difficult it actually is to extract yourself from a culture, especially a culture that is perfectly willing to kill outliers.

Turn me into an orc? 😂 Thanks buddy, I sure could use an upgrade.

A few things. This dwarf picture is pretty clearly the one that will be in the book beside the dwarf species break down. IE. It shows them in day to day life. The same will be the case for the orc picture. In the spell section it will have pics of people casting spells, and in the adventure section it will have combat style of pictures. So, saying this pic speaks for all the art styles is dishonest. Now, to point out the real problem of removing of mythology like all orcs is evil is not a bad thing. It's done for an understandable reason. What's 'bad' here is it hasn't been replaced with anything. The whole idea of having specific groups like orcs and dwarves and elves act in specific ways is to give a game master ideas on the plots they could run in their game. It's a story helping tool. Oh game master, you aren't sure what the orc should do? Okay, have them do this! So it is a helpful tool. That being said, that doesn't mean the tool isn't flawed. It needed to be changed. The problem is they are removing the tool and not replacing it with anything. There is no 'new' orc mythology for how a game master can handle orcs now. It's very lazy. I can't help but think the monster manual will come out and you'll flip to Orc and it will be just a 'they are human like' and then a blank page. Nothing for a game master to actually use. If they wanted to actually solve the problem and not be lazy jerks what they would have done is come up with several different groups/clans/societies for each species. So you flip to the Orc in the monster manual and it would be like, the Orcs of the clan 'blank' are dedicated to war ect, ect, ect. and the Orcs of the clan 'blank' are all about nature and ect, ect, ect. This would show that they were a diverse society and it would also give a game master a lot of helpful plot hooks to use. Instead Wizards is just cutting stuff out and adding nothing. It's very lazy and without value. In closing, just wanted to point out the actual problem here and to also say, I have given up on D&D a long time ago now.

@Keram-io8hv

7 күн бұрын

Plot twist: One dwarf is acfually female because they all have beards

When it comes to the half-races, they went about it the worst way possible. No it wasn't due to the issue of having too many races and thus an increasing roster of possible half-races. That would have made too much sense. It ended up being because it was "racially insensitive". Which is utter nonsense, really. This is both outrageous because people of mixed races exist in the real world, and their existence is not "racially insensitive" and due to the fact that other races they are NOT removing are still, in fact, half races. Such as tieflings, they are in fact half human and half demon, which makes them a mixed race. Aasimar are in the same boat as they are half celestial and half human. With this issue, it's in the same bed as the issue of gatekeeping. Yes, they want more people, but at the same time they are running into an issue as old as time: try to appease everyone and you end up appeasing no one. They are gutting lore of make-belief creatures in order to make them more "appealing for modern audiences". We all know EXACTLY what the problem is when the term "modern audiences" comes into play. Take a look at the hadozee scandal. They are a humanoid race that is a cross between a flying squirrel and spider monkeys.. from space. Their backstory was that of being experimented on and eventually fighting for their freedom and winning. That's freaking awesome! But no, that was too insensitive, since it was apparently very close to what happened to a race of people. Every race has been experimented on at some point, so which is it? Which people in real life look like FREAKING MONKEY SQUIRREL HYBRIDS FROM SPACE?! ...Is it the large noses? Were they too reminiscent of the jews brutalized in WW2? No, it's total BS.

@Red_Devil_2011

3 күн бұрын

Finally, someone brings this up. It's like people are intentionally ignoring the woke activism side of things. Removing the races' inborn bonuses to specific Attributes, and instead allowing everyone to give +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 was done because "race isn't real." Now, I like the change for practical reasons. I like not being pigeon-holed if I want to play a WIS spellcaster vs CHA spellcaster. HOWEVER, the REASON why they bothered with the change to begin with was ideological. It was woke activism and bigotry. To them, they had to "deconstruct race" because imagining that a "black coded orc" has greater strength yet lower intelligence, vs a pale gnome with greater intelligence yet less strength, was "racist" to them.

@Axel-zc6xj

3 күн бұрын

@@Red_Devil_2011 I actually just got banned from the Dungeons and Dragons discord for being Christian. I am not sure of your faith, nor will I preach to you, but I think banning me for being Christian was quite low... What I am getting at is that WotC seems to be going full throttle on the woke activism. They also abhor any sort of criticism. If you look at the rules on DnDBeyond, one of them is "Moderation taken within the community is not to be discussed in public." Yea, not 'discussed on dndbeyond', but IN PUBLIC. You know, like how I am now. So they are literally trying to stop you from telling others, IN PUBLIC, that their moderators are insanely ban-happy and trend heavily towards activism.

@Axel-zc6xj

3 күн бұрын

I actually just got banned from the Dungeons and Dragons discord for being Christian. I am not sure of your faith, nor will I preach to you, but I think banning me for being Christian was quite low... What I am getting at is that WotC seems to be going full throttle on the woke activism. They also abhor any sort of criticism. If you look at the rules on DnDBeyond, one of them is "Moderation taken within the community is not to be discussed in public." Yea, not 'discussed on dndbeyond', but IN PUBLIC. You know, like how I am now. So they are literally trying to stop you from telling others, IN PUBLIC, that their moderators are insanely ban-happy and trend heavily towards activism.

@Axel-zc6xj

3 күн бұрын

@@Red_Devil_2011 Ugh censortube is at it again, I've tried to respond to you like 5 times...

@Axel-zc6xj

3 күн бұрын

1/3 I actually just got banned from the Dungeons and Dragons discord for being Christian. I am not sure of your faith, nor will I preach to you, but I think banning me for being Christian was quite low...

I will not be buying any books from WOTC

Beard tattos are so fucking cringe, they are just a temporary style and are supposed to change as a dwarf ages. They are a centennially lived race, to permanently mark their skin with something that will change is less time than 1% of their lifetime is ludicrous. Do dwarves have a penalty to Intelligence now? Oh, species have no distinguishing physical or mental abilites now, I almost forgot, kinda how a man is just as strong or smart as a chimp. Now a criticism: I think the audio could be better, your voice doesn't sounds that clear. There was also some weird background noise, idk if that was intended. Personally, if you post more analysis of TTRPGs and their current circumstances I'd watch them.

Pathfinder did it better. Better representation. Equal opportunity murder hoboing. Better half race mechanics (because they actually have mechanics). And a battle wheelchair so you can play professor x crushing men to death with your mind. Have a day.

"Go ham"... As _that_ person that is mentioned in the video, a new DM who really just wants to make his own world and encourage player agency, IT IS STRESS! Do you know how hard it has been for the past year, meticulously going through every single aspect of D&D (by myself) to decouple everything from Forgotten Realms? Do you know how hair-pulling it is to try to explain to people the changes I make, or that they don't have to strictly follow the lore, when their character information from the books or online tell them, "You are evil", "You aren't very smart", "You can magically speak to someone from a distant land, just because you look kinda similar"... And the most messed up question I always get is, "Why? just use what's there!"... but tbf that's probably more of a cultural problem where I'm from. Either way, I can't say I have much sympathy for this argument: the idea that they're taking away the existing lore somehow and now no one can play it... Remind me again where WoTC got their False Hydra from, don't quite remember seeing it...... wait. The Forgotten Realms lore still exists and can still be used with all the new versions of "species" and all. Of course, you don't get the mechanical Racial Bonuses, but even then, that simply opens more opportunities for those "exception to the rules" players, but the DM's world still stays the same. So, you run your shi* how you want to, couldn't have said it better. I feel like we've come full circle, isn't that nice.

I completely agree with you. You've manage to vocalise something I've been feeling about newer dnd stuff for a while.

Honestly, I completely agree, but I don't think you take it far enough. While fantasy stories change many things about our world, there are still metaphysically truths that they rely on to maintain a coherence with who we are as people. That is why we can have space wizards with shiny swords and love it but hate the Mary Sue (you know of whom I speak). But the majority of the demographic that is into/creating D&D at the moment seem to have a postmodernist/hyper-relativistic view of reality, and from their point of view there are either none, or very few, metaphysical truths that underpin our greater reality. And so they turn everything into this grey sludge which completely neuters any deeper dynamic which underpins truly good storytelling. The best example I can think of is from the new book, which stated something along the lines of: "due to the many heroics of tieflings, people have overcome their prejudice against them." Gone are the days where the blood of literal DEVILS AND DEMONS meant something. That the very physical manifestation of evil flowing in the blood of a humanoid was a rare and accursed thing. No more are there stories of overcoming an evil nature or succumbing to it. They have relativized the very concept of evil while seeing 'ists' and 'phobes' as more vile than Satan himself. Make of that what you will.

@justhero

9 күн бұрын

Yeah, you absolutely hit the nail on the head. I did want to talk about the Tieflings but I never got around to adding it in the end, but now that you bring it up, the very sentence of "people have overcome" their prejudice is insane. Do they collectively and unanimously nod their heads in agreement that the fact that hellspawn as a whole are not evil, due to the actions of a sole Tiefling? Do the great and many many species of Faerun, some of which have lived since humanity first crawled out of the mud, just go "yeah, ayt bet that dude seemed pretty cool"? It just seems like a half-hazard slapdash way of putting the kibosh on it

@FidasEternas

9 күн бұрын

@@justhero yeah, exactly. I predict D&D will trudge on for a bit longer because it is both cheap and easy to get into and an escape from deeper truths (not just escapist fun). But the moment the hardships of life comes knocking, the moment people are forced to come back face to face with reality, it will either change again or be replaced.

@davidrhode7019

7 күн бұрын

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I remember, as a small child, that my grandfather made fun of the way I liked to eat my dinner. I would eat the yucky stuff first, for example peas, then follow that with a vegetable I liked better, such as mashed potatoes, then eat my steak last. My grandfather asked why I bothered to eat the food in order... after all, it all mixed together in your stomach! What adult me wishes kid me had done was offer to place my grandfather's dinner in the blender, so he could enjoy the flavor of a dinner smoothie. Where I am going with this is that I believe good fantasy worlds have a unique flavor that comes from a limited selection of discrete elements. In Tolkien, elves have a long and tragic history, orcs are evil because they are literally the creations of the evil god of the setting, and the Ranger class is only open to descendants of Numenor. In Howard's Hyborean age, there are many ethnic groups of humans, mirroring real-world ethnicities, but there are very few nonhuman characters, and these are almost invariably adversaries. The more interesting D&D settings, like the original Greyhawk, or Dark Sun, all have unique histories, backgrounds, and motivations for their races and classes and systems. The problem is that the current owners and writers of D&D don't seem to grasp the concept that less is more. They want to allow totally inclusive settings, where every 'ancestry' is available as well as both mechanically and in-game socially equal, where every class is accessible to everyone, and where there are no tragic backstories, morally questionable decisions, or any hints of less than perfectly sensitive, consensual, and legal behavior in the background whatsoever. Now, I definitely want the hobby to be inclusive and accessible to everyone who wants to play. I just don't believe that that goal can be achieved by homogenizing every element of character creation. Instead, what we are left with is a grey sludge, a dinner smoothie deprived of all unique texture and flavor, and somehow more revolting for its lack of character.

@AdamK1095

7 күн бұрын

@@davidrhode7019 That's the thing though; it is accessible to nearly everyone who wants to play. I started in '89 and even before the doom of Y2K we had player's of multiple racial backgrounds and women who played characters (and this was in multiple US states). When we saw orcs we thought viking neanderthals from the wilderness. Now I see them in this art as a b1g0ted caricatures of me and part of my REAL ancestry.

@davidrhode7019

7 күн бұрын

@@AdamK1095 Fair point! I think that most RPGs are accessible to anyone who wants to play, and most groups are happy to accept new players, whomever they are. The ability of a particular gaming group to hold onto players is going to have a lot more to do with the personalities of the players themselves, than any gestures toward political sensitivity in the rulebook. Something that probably escapes Hasbro's legal department.

I get where you're coming from and you're 100% right will all of your points but also... I don't think the existence of some more pleasant artworks and less racial diferences in DnD is bad? Idk I do miss the more distinct cultural differences, especially now that I've played and GMd Pathfinder games which retain those aspects. Things like drow worshiping demons can be really cool! but also it is so damn annoying as a GM to remember that you need to be racist to the tiefling in your party or go "oh right I can't add this Orc NPC because she would be too bloodthirsty." It's honestly just easier to water down some of the good-vs-evil in the worldbuilding so you can focus on the good-vs-evil in the story the characters are playing. And also the art is like... really pretty and inspiring? I wanna add those two dwarves selling bread as NPCs into one of my cities. Maybe the party goes to them for information or something. Or maybe I'll have a random encounter on the road where the party can befriend that family of cowboy orcs who know the land because of their ancestral knowledge. and ultimately the more gritty, evil stuff does still exist. I haven't seen the new monster manual but im sure theres over a hundred Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic Evil entities in there. And its not as if Wotc's worldbuilding is law either, I for one have been trying to stick with the demon-phobia that affects tieflings since its something that has a bit more depth to it than just racism.

Orcs and drow are intended to be stormtroopers A disposable bad guy that doesnt need definition because the game, or movie requires faceless henchmen to define the hero and villian. What makes what wizards did so offensive is that it wasnt done organically. Salvatore evolved d the drow to make an offshoot of drow that rejected Lolth. The same could have been done with orcs but instead they desided to just retcon which is what angers most people because it's basically saying what you played was racists, and you should be ashamed of yourself. They pulled the same shannigans with Ravenloft. The gender flipped darklords and white washed the Vistani. They could have done organically by killing off and replacing darklords but nope, they just flipped it for no reason. The vistani was the worst. Rather than portray them as distinct people with theirnown culture, they just robbed them of all culture and decided anyone can be vistani and there is nothing special or unique about them.

Personally, the humanification of what was a genetically evil race is understandable, it would uave made more sense for that to be a different faction, while the orcs still maintained their underlying control from Grumsh(Gruumsh?)

@olster2074

Күн бұрын

Coming soon: wights are actually pretty chill, Vecna is just misunderstood, and Tiamat just has terrible PR.

@Magus_Espigon

Күн бұрын

@@olster2074 imagine if Vecna and Tiamat had a relationship out of nowhere

I think this is a result of WOC just... not really having anything new to add. All the changes to classes are minimal, and some of the traits made to buff them don't actually fill that purpose. (Ranger, I'm so sorry Ranger, Ranger are you breathing RAN G ER-) All previous update to D&D had system overhauls, lore overhauls, and so much more. This, much like the method they're using for their pre-orders, make this feel like DLC to 5e, not a new edition. A crying shame, but my Pathfinder books will be here next week.

@TheLimeCrimes

7 күн бұрын

I consider myself a very liberal-leaning person, but taking away a Game Master's ability to pick and choose will never, ever sit right with me. Everyone has the right to run their table the way they want to, and actively trying to punish and remove those people from your space just because it's not something you enjoy, or by some leaps in logic, find "morally disagreeable", is ridiculous. Especially when they're the core audience who buys your product.

To be sure. Has the 5e from 2014 kept whar makes the soul of DnD ?

Holy crap I am so glad I am not the only one out there who thinks that having an inherently evil species does not equate to REAL WORLD RACISM. And the part about Tolkein... Holy crap I laughed so hard man I completely agree. I think people are getting him and Lovecraft. Also considering orcs used to have PIG faces really shows how ignorant people are on the whole matter...

While the video is good and I agree that sometimes the changes are very out there I think this video jumps to conclusions and misunderstand the whole point of some of these changes in depictions. It’s not trying to sell to people who are self-inserting their own reality into a fantasy game. It’s just simply acknowledging and celebrating the differing stories people come up with in D&D. No one game of D&D is the same with many different people making homebrew and creating their own version of creatures in the lore. I think they’re simply making it that you can play whatever story you want, providing depictions to encourage creativity. That’s why they are so out there. If you want to play orcs as an evil race of creatures like in Tolkien’s universe or a more classical depiction, you can do that. Nothing is stopping you from doing that. These are just depictions at the end of the day and they’re not forcing you to play it in a specific way.

@1YCARADOFACAO

2 күн бұрын

I agree. If depictions and art were to be a problem this hasn't started now. This I am old thing that has been happening since 3d ed. DnD has been diluting itself and dumbing down to dominate the whole RPG scenario for YEARS. This is nothing new, it has never impacted how people play before and will not impact now. The video may be sincere but it's a rant about a non problem.

Feels like you might be cherry picking the two artworks out of over 500 that will be included in the new core books to make your point. Granted I won't be buying the books, but it's not because of a cowboy orc image

@AdamK1095

7 күн бұрын

If these samples illustrate how WotC wants to illustrate the orc and dwarf creatures (and farming/baking sim game) do you feel the others will be far different?

@alicepbg2042

7 күн бұрын

​@@AdamK1095 the image created to show a regular day in the life of an orc/dwarf will be different than one created to show people adventuring. As one should expect. Like, the few spell ilustrations I saw looked cool

@AdamK1095

7 күн бұрын

@@alicepbg2042 True. We shall see.

@PhalisoBringerOfDoom

5 күн бұрын

​@@AdamK1095 you say farming/baking sim as if farmer isn't already a background, chef isn't already a feat and plant growth isn't already a spell You could already farm and cook to your heart's content in 5e like it was Stardew Valley if your DM is on board and they aren't changing the game by including that, you're just being a baby about it

@AdamK1095

5 күн бұрын

@@PhalisoBringerOfDoom Yes, farmer is a background and plant growth is a spell (I don't use feats). But I don't play an adventure game to be a farmer. I help people take care of their gardens, chickens, and grow domes in real life. I play an adventure game to be an adventurer. That's something games like RuneQuest, Dragonbane, DungeonWorld, etc. exemplify, I feel, in their art. I don't believe that WotC has shown it’s best for hitting the ‘high notes’ of an adventure game. Now if you want to play an adventure farming game then you go ahead, bring your doom. But I don’t see it as the best advertising. But hey, I’m just a baby…

Counterargument: 1) I have a copy of the 2nd Edition Player's Handbook, not the revised edition. In the Proficiencies section, page 51, there is a full colour plate piece of art that depicts a dwarf putting his feet up in a tavern and relaxing while an elf leans over a chair holding a spoon. A barmaid walks by in the background, near a roaring fire. That image is not that dissimilar to the "beard tattoo" art. Not all the work in the older editions obsessed over "grit" - they were focused instead on atmosphere and mood, varying from combat, to rest, to - as in the baby green dragon example - victory. 2) This took fifteen seconds in Google to find. From the Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, page 274 - Orcs are described as as “squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types”. The later addition of tusks, horns and snouts are not in Tolkien's work, but they represent additional flourishes from writers that saw them as a receptacle for all things low and base. It's impossible for you to say the depiction of Orcs didn't have a racist foundation when this was LITERALLY from the guy who cooked them up. Also Orcs were depicted as having no culture, a guttural language, and living in slovenly conditions, all tropes that were seen in racist literature justifying the enslavement and mistreatment of black people. While these later tropes may have been invoked by fantasy authors without realising their racist origins, they are still far too close for comfort for anyone with familiarity on the matter. 3) People didn't fight Hitler in 1938 because he was racist. The opinion told to me by that generation was that he was "destroying civilization", and the war was entered in the defense of Poland. The Allies of WW2 had many black GIs from America, and as they took Nazi POWs many Germans asked them why they were fighting for a cause that didn't grant them the same civil rights as whites. Famously, the Allies had no answer. 4) "fucking monsters stripped of all humanity" is literally how dehumanisation of other peoples works in far right literature. Compare and contrast with, say, the depiction of Jews in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the depiction of LGBT+ people by hate churches. It's worth noting that even Tolkien stopped short of declaring Orcs to be beyond redemption; this assertion did not sit well with his Christian ethics. In the Silmarilion, Tolkein wrote that Morgoth himself had to turn away from the light of the Silmarils, for fear he would be turned back to the cause of good - in Tolkein's worldbuilding, even the Devil himself could be redeemed. In later life he increasingly hated the Orcs being depicted as cannon fodder, and ultimately he never penned a final fate for the Orc armies of Mordor because of it. 5) a more nuanced D&D worldview would balance the morality vs. the society. To whit, while Orc *society* can be warlike, brutal and evil, Orc *individuals* can be bargained, reasoned with. This accurately depicts how individuals can be brave and noble even in the most horrendous societies, in our world or any other. This philosophy makes undead and other horrors more terrifying simply by contrast - they have no concept of mercy and will not stop fighting until they are destroyed.

@Mordante69

6 күн бұрын

LOL.

@negativeninja7465

6 күн бұрын

Well said

Mexican Orcs clinched it for me. Racist as hell! Hard pass!

The word "orc" has two distinct sources in English. One is borrowed from one or more Romance words, such as the French orque or the Italian orca, all ultimately descended from the Latin orca, which probably denoted a small cetacean such as the killer whale12. The other source is from the Old English orcþyrs, orcneas (plural), which is perhaps from a Romanic source akin to ogre, and ultimately from Latin Orcus "Hell," a word of unknown origin3. The word was later revived by J. R. R. Tolkien, partly after Old English orc, which he took to mean "demon"45. From Wiki.

@SnowWolf9999

4 күн бұрын

Also in one of his letters he wrote to someone, it mentioned that the Orcs were partially inspired after witnessing soldiers in WW1 (on both sides) that were so full of bloodlust/ hatred who had a total lack of respect for all life, they enjoyed and lived for killing and torturing anything/anyone and could no longer be considered human in his mind (hence Orcs being Elves twisted by Evil and no longer Elves)

We should have gatekept better.

@jedbex7070

8 күн бұрын

Everyone is against gatekeeping until it’s too late.

@AdamK1095

7 күн бұрын

@@jedbex7070 Gatekeeping maybe. Money keeping, that's different. There are so many D&D clones/variants that you really do have your pick. The trick is to get your players to realize the s*** atmosphere these examples WotC create.

TBH, calling Tolkien orcs "monsters, not people" always was a bad take.

Unfounded. This is the direct result of younger people and their views of the world. WOTC is playing to that because that's what they're asking for ....no mention of racism, using a * in words that might offend, a coziness, a general vibey vibe of vibiness. Ginny Di recently had to make a video about her players not initiating in combat because they felt they were so perfect...so morally superior that they wanted to use only their words and not engage in any conflict that might end in bloodshed. Dark Souls replaced with Animal Crossing and Orcs in overalls. Things that are Canon , as you say, were created when we all weren't as susceptible to being offended or put off but something that might but up against what we believe in. But now people demand X Cards and wellness checks and are terrified of in-game (and IRL) conflict. To be clear though, I'm absolutely not judging anyone who wants this...D&D should be played exactly how you'd like to play and it should be accessible for every single person out there. If it makes you happy...get it. What I'm saying is you can't blame WOTC for giving a large portion of the player base what they have been clamoring for....a spot where 2024 ideals and concepts are forced onto mystical worlds where people can fly and shoot lightning out of their palms. WOTC is just a corporation. They're going to do whatever they can to maximize profits. End of the day though, this is on your DM. As the creators said...it's up to you. So if you want to create a Canon world in the Forgotten Realms where the first thing you see is a merchant cutting off the head of an Orc in overalls because they're racist as hell...then by all means.

I just decided to stick with Pathfinder 1e and 2e it’s better anyways. Especially first edition.

There's no Theme nor Canon Lore in DnD since aDnD. Since the third edition this game has been only devolving to dominate the market, and they did it. Makes no sense to have this argument NOW, this is not new.

@stephenwaldron2748

Күн бұрын

In a game that advertises you being able to do and make the stories you want, why should there _be_ a Theme or Canon lore?... something you'd then have to rip out and homebrew to death in order to in fact do and make what the stories you want?

I have boiled it down to post third edition hasn't looked like D&D. The current ongoing mismanagement of the franchise & "woke" agenda has brought me to no longer giving any money to Hasbro/WotC. There are plenty of good TTRPG products on the market as well as the older editions.

focusing on one small, perhaps arbitrary, element to critique the entire concept can be misleading and unfair, especially when the singled-out piece is not inherently negative.

Okay I was gonna give this a fair shake. But this is a flimsy argument at best. Firstly Cannon changes fucking constantly in almost every game that can claim to have it. So by trying to cite Gygax and their initial vision of D&D is like pointing at an adult and asking why aren't they more like their newborn selves. Furthermore there are still a lot of PURE evil races and peoples out there...like a lot. So it's not like we are lacking in that regard either. Honestly I find the idea a small number of races who have the sentience of human beings being as nuanced and grey as humans to be a far more compelling idea. If you want pure "evil" you got it, if you want pure "good" you got it. But arguing that somehow that it's "Better" or "right" is at best an opinion. An Opinion that I can understand and even agree within certain campaign framings. But as an opinion it's no more right or wrong than mine. Your argument about elves and orcs just being humans is also self defeating. You have boiled down the idea of the elves, dwarves and Orcs culture and history down to, "well they doing human things like baking bread and that breaks all previous lore. The very cannon you are still speaking of is still there and intact when it comes to these races. You are still long lived as Elf, can still be old and mysterious. What in one D&D actually refutes that? Honestly I don't even remotely understand the argument of the world being "perfect" argument either...like it's not. Not remotely. I guess god forbid they do few art pieces where people are smiling I guess? For a video that isn't supposed to be about the art direction you hammer on it a LOT. That being said, I can get behind the idea that dealing with our own real world is tiresome and D&D mirroring it too closely could be a determent. I just don't think that is a major problem. We have absolute evil, we have absolute good in cannon currently. The former being in great enough numbers that Faerun is CONSTANTLY in grave peril. That being said I like it when my bad guy has, understandable, if misguided beliefs, it's why I love Curse of Strahd so much. Strahd is fucking evil. But his evil is also understandable. Sometimes I want to fight the things that can't be reasoned with but mostly, I like intrigue and grounded bad guys more. But at the end of the day, it's only what I prefer, it's simply my opinion. It's not right. It's not wrong. I would have watched this all the way through even if it was framed as an opinion. Honestly that is the beauty of the game. You can have that opinion and play in a version of it that you prefer. Even if you want to stick to more modern Cannon there is more than enough room to make a fucking army of purely evil orcs or goblins. Hell those still exist in modern day WotC campaigns. It's been like this for a very long time. Been playing D&D since i was 8 (1983). There is a lot to complain about with WotC nowadays to be sure, I just don't see it here. Money Grubbing, OGL, Digital Microtransaction, Pinkertons, AI art, shitty source books and campaign releases, the list goes on. But being upset a few of the previously evil races are considerably more nuanced and (arguably) more interesting, well, it's fair, but it's neither right or wrong and really the least "shitty" thing WotC has done. Especially in a game where there is EVERY expectation where that can be completely changed by the player as a matter of course.

@nikephoros9297

8 күн бұрын

I can somewhat agree with both of you, while it's not a huge issue, and in the end, one can create a character in any way one wants to, things like the elves and dwarves don't really feel as alienatign as they used to, with cultures and social structures that are completely different from human ones, and now just are depicted a lot more as just differing humans.

@007ohboy

8 күн бұрын

​@nikephoros9297 Even their "oldschool cultures" are not alien. Oooo...many elves like to use the bow and sword. So alien. Sounds like England 1300s. All these races ripped off RL human culture. Hello! 😂😅

@nikephoros9297

8 күн бұрын

@@007ohboy Very true, but the race speclializing in smithing and stonework with strict clan rules and a greed for gold would better be depicted hoarding money, mining, smithing or standing in formation rather than baking (especially baking in a forge that is being worked, aren't these guys supposed to be strict and stubborn?). It's as if the new depiction of elves would show one doing brickwork.

@007ohboy

8 күн бұрын

@@nikephoros9297 So dwarves don't eat? They are baking, dude. If you showed me a picture of goblins baking I wouldn't flinch. It's bacis ass food processing. So because Dawrves are the "metal workers", elves could never be seen on a forge making a sword? Because lore wise, almost every playable race can metal work. Dwarves are just more likely to be metal workers. Elves bake, humans bake, halfling bake. Each race can also make fire and wipe their own butts. Amazing!

@nikephoros9297

7 күн бұрын

@@007ohboy So true, let's make the next goliath image have one sitting on a toilet, that'll show what they're all about! You're completely missing the point, it's not the fact that dwarves don't bake, but that baking isn't a dwarven specialty, and such is an unneccessary inclusion in the image. You only have so many illustrations in a book, you can't waste them on irellevant things, especially if they have no real reason to be in the image, like, i don't know, a baker in a forge. But whatever, i won't play the new version or buy the books anyway.

Are you conveniently forgetting that Elminster was actually a transwoman at a point? In a book from the 80's?

At the end of the day, dnd is the Dungeon Master's game. DM's are a rare commodity in the community, even rarer are the ones that create their own worlds and monsters for players, and they are the law in this game, not WoTC who just design the game. It is the players who decide how and what to play and the DM who decides what the game is and if player choice is acceptable. If that DM is a conservative white straight male individual... well sucks to suck wotc but that DnD will feature blacksmithing dwarves, all ROCK AND STONE, and not gay barrista dwarves. Dnd was capable of being anything the players and dm wanted, it was arguably the most inclusive game there was because it excluded no one at all. WoTC thinks it will change how the players are by playing their "modernized" game, no it will be the same way it always has been so we lose nothing, but wotc has everything to lose because at the end of the day... you can play this game for free or even make your own content for it without giving WoTC a single dime, it just depends how much dignity WoTC has left.

Dnd already was the most inclusive game there was. Everyone can play anything they want to. What WoTC is trying to do is become uninclusive to normal people.

@stephenwaldron2748

Күн бұрын

So, they make it easier for people to make their own worlds and for players to make characters more to their liking, not taking away your ability to play the previously printed lore or using the previously held restrictions at your table, but somehow, it has becoming uninclusive to you "normal" people. Right...

@bastiancole3565

12 сағат бұрын

@@stephenwaldron2748 forcing players to only play older content isn't a good thing. And you know what, yeah... Normal people, as opposed to insane progressives and the body mutilation cult? Yeah I feel very confident in that.

@bastiancole3565

12 сағат бұрын

@@stephenwaldron2748 normal as opposed to insane p rogressives and the body m:utiliation c:ult? Thanks for making me type it like that KZread. But yes I feel very confident in saying that.

LOL just play older versions... Peaple complain about D&D going woke but they literally FUNDED IT ... Give them more money and they will make it more woke.... It's gamers fault for talarating it and FUNDING IT.