I love this video so much. So much valuable information packed into one video, as always. I want to learn more Messiaen now...

@chromaticswing9199

5 жыл бұрын

Oh hey, nice to see you here

@polk269

3 жыл бұрын

I thought her name seemed familiar

This is theory as it should be taught: with enthusiasm, awareness, mastery and simplicity. Many thanks for this.

Another great video! A few other interesting facts: -Messiaen was also a mystic and devoutly religious (but the good kind). -He composed and performed a quartet for prisoners in a Nazi camp while a prisoner himself. -He lived/taught in at Paris Conservatory in the winters, then composed and recorded birdsong in the Alps in the summer. -As a young boy he carried Debussy's opera score Pelléas et Mélisande around like a favorite coloring book.

@jeffreycollins7297

3 жыл бұрын

Chronochromie was the first piece by him I heard one day on the classical radio in Newport News Va in Mom's car. I thought at first it might be a Zappa classical piece. Boy was I wrong. And Happy too!

Fortunately I'm classical trained and I had the honor and pleasure of "studying" Mr. Messiaen. Stunning!

There are five basic forms to divide the octave into equal parts (NOTE: Existence of octave equivalence, enharmonic equivalence and 12 tone equal temperament is assumed in order to understand this) FIRST BASIC FORM - TRITONE - 12 semitones divided by 2 equal parts = 6. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 2 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3, T4, T5) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 6 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+5 (and its rotation 5+1) 2+4 (and its rotation 4+2) 1+1+4 (and its rotations 1+4+1/4+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 5 1+2+3 (and its rotations 2+3+1/3+1+2) 2+1+3 (and its rotations 1+3+2/3+2+1) 1+1+1+3 (and its rotations 1+1+3+1/1+3+1+1/3+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 4 1+1+2+2 (and its rotations 1+2+2+1/2+2+1+1/2+1+1+2/1+1+2+2) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 6 1+1+1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+1+1+2+1/1+1+2+1+1/1+2+1+1+1/2+1+1+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 7 SECOND BASIC FORM - AUGMENTED TRIAD - 12 semitones divided by 3 equal parts = 4. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 3 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2, T3) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 4 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+3 (and its rotation 3+1) 1+1+2 (and its rotations 1+2+1/2+1+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 3 THIRD BASIC FORM - DIMINISHED CHORD - 12 semitones divided by 4 equal parts = 3. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into 4 equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1, T2) Any intervallic pattern (measured in semitones) whose sum is 3 generates a mode of limited transposition. For instance: 1+2 (and its rotation 2+1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 2 FOURTH BASIC FORM - WHOLE TONE SCALE - 12 semitones divided by 6 equal parts = 2. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into six equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0, T1) -------------------- Messiaen's Mode 1 FIFTH BASIC FORM - CHROMATIC SCALE- 12 semitones divided by 12 equal parts = 1. The result of this division indicates the number of semitones needed to divide the octave into twelve equal parts. The result of the division also indicates the number of transpositions of these scales (T0). This scale only can be divided into intervals smaller than the semitone (quarter tones, etc) In brief, there are 16 sonorities (included the 5 basic forms listed above) with limited transposition: 7 modes of limited transposition by Messiaen and 9 remaining sonorities which are truncations of Messiaen's modes. If you are familiar with pc set theory or another combinatory tool, you can trace another interesting properties of these modes. Playing and transposing these modes is the best method to catch their particular essence. Greetings from Bogotá, Colombia. Excellent KZread channel.

@KyleMart

2 жыл бұрын

Great post!

@jaimeosorio75

11 ай бұрын

Love It!

These modes can sometimes sound a bit arbitrary without an elaborate context , but listen to visions de l'amen and you get a world of expressive power. Anyone who's at all interested in this video definitely listen to that piece; it's like dying. Also Messiaen's use of rhythm is completely insane. I wouldn't even try to go into what he does rhythmically but it can't be overstated.

@swissarmyknight4306

6 жыл бұрын

"Quartet for the End of Time". Haunting. Written while Messiaen was a prisoner of the Nazis.

I like to call Messiaen's Mode 7, Antidominant since it has literally EVERYTHING but the major 3rd and flat 7th.

@jrossellometal

Жыл бұрын

That's some depth, bro!

@PileceKrilce

7 ай бұрын

I mean I get it, but if the mode starts from C you still have G-B-D-F in there soo...😂

Mode 3 at 6:00 sounds like the beginning to Allan Holdsworth's "Wardenclffe Tower" The "Modes Of Limited Transposition"was also where Anthony Jackson got his playing approach. He stated that in an issue of Guitar Player mag back in the early eighties. Listen to his solo in Steve Khan's Live "The Suitcase" You'll hear the influence it in it.

My favorite French composer and one of my favorite composers overall.

I've forgotten all the music theory I did years ago, all I know is that when listening to much of Messians organ music, it really takes you to another place. Amazing stuff

Rick is the man! For anyone reading this, besides the more commonly used modes discussed here like the diminished and whole tone, Allan uses the 3rd mode of limited transposition all the time. It's part of his signature sound for going outside. Listen to Allan's City Nights at the 1:47 mark. He plays licks like that or variations all the time. In Allan's REH instructional video he calls this mode simply the symmetrical scale.

@dnaguitar7

7 жыл бұрын

Yep, I heard that immediately. It lays on the fingerboard well!

@gunillalager-ebkes4426

5 жыл бұрын

„Danke schön“ for explaining, Rick!

@MrPyroguru

5 жыл бұрын

Time Stamp 5:58 I instantly think of Allan Holdsworth on Synthaxe and I think of Star Trek for some weird reason!

@lex.cordis

3 жыл бұрын

That REH video has some of my favorite Holdsworth solos. I listen to it over and over. Even have it burn to a disc for listening in the car. It's insane.

Toru Takemitsu (who loves Messiaen's music) use the whole tone scale, the octatonic and most of the time, the w-1/2-1/2 scale as a fundamental part of his music, specially in his early and latest years of his life.

@jeffreycollins7297

5 жыл бұрын

Takemitsu was the one who introduced me to both modern Japanese music, but also modern Japanese cinema.

@StphRolland

4 жыл бұрын

I don't understand your notation w-1/2-1/2 . What scale is it (in semitones notation or notes)? is it one of Messaien's mode or another particular to Toru Takemitsu ?

@oddfellowfloyd

4 жыл бұрын

If we start on C, for example: C-D (W) -> Eb-E (1/2) -> F-F# (1/2), it's part of Messiaen's, "Third Mode," which follows and repeats the intervals: W--1/2--1/2... so an entire scale could be: C-D, Eb-E, F-F#, G#-Bb, B-C, Db-D. :) Toru used this mode in a lot of his compositions, borrowing it from Messiaen. :) One of my favourite Takemitsu pieces is, "All In Twilight II: Dark;"--check out versions by Giacomo Fiore, and Franz Halasz!

@TitoSilversax

4 жыл бұрын

Takemitsu was the man. I also love his essays

@gauloises5843

3 жыл бұрын

glad to see someone appreciating Takemitsu's music. in his earlier carrier he was quite the Messiaen Fan boy ^^

these scales have a really ''messianic'' sound!

@diegocampos703

3 жыл бұрын

That pun made me real cross

@0601989m

3 жыл бұрын

Lord take those bloody sardines off my Ondes Martenot

I adore Messiaen...I even dedicated a composition of mine to him...pure genius!

Sir, you will go to heaven. Thank you for this video.

Thank you Rick! I have played and loved Messiaen's piano music for many years. I appreciate how concisely you explain his styles.

Messiaen was one of the Modernist era's great geniuses. Like the Beethoven of his day.

Messiaen is a genius

Thank Rick for this demonstration. I've heard lectures and even written papers on the modes of limited transposition, and yet your demonstration with examples was even more illuminating. I look forward to working these into my writing soon!

I really love Messiaen's concepts. There is so much interesting melodic and harmonic content that you can pull from his scales.

I love this video. II hope you'll do more analyses of classical music of the 20/21st centuries. I'm listening to Berg's violin concerto now. It would be a thrill to hear you talk about that. THANK YOU!

I just discovered this channel and Rick is a tremendous teacher. Thanks so much!

I was lucky enough to meet Messiaen in 1986. Wish I could have spent some time with him! Although he really didn't like to speak English. This video is a great example of what an excellent teacher you are!

Rick, I am delighted to hear you talk about my favorite composer and put his theory into simpler and concise terms that a rock musician can understand. Its great as a non-music college major to have some access to music theory whenever I need it, especially from artist I really respect. Keep up the the good work

I like the way you so obviously appreciate it at an aesthetic level.

love this ! thank you ! beautiful sounds !

Rick, my faith in you is confirmed. I saw Turangalila last night, having known it for 50 years and you unlocked a vast gallery of doors today, especially into the piano part.Debussy led the way.Messian,s Quartet for the End of Time is Trane - ish. Also based on a Supreme Love.

Dude first the rock n roll video and now a Messaien ? Right on man. I had no idea Quoncy Jones and Stockhausen were his pupils. I love Quartet for the end time .

Like always, thanks a million Rick!!!

Thanks for this video Rick. Fantastic as ever. I love Messiaen. His Vingt regards sur l'Enfant-Jésus is essential listening for anyone who loves piano. Keep up the great work Rick, you are an inspiration.

Thank you Maestro Beato, you really teach.

This video is a fine way to expose us to these scales, how they are built, how they sound, and what some of their internal ramifications are. I am surprised, though, that various technical inaccuracies in this presentation have not been commented upon or caught and later fixed by Beato. One problem seems to originate from the fact that Messiaen used one word, "mode" with two different meanings. The other seems to come from the fact that Messiaen in numbering the modes, can easily lead one to referring to them in an ordinal way (first versus one, second versus two, third versus three, etc.). But we also refer to shifts in the sequence of intervals of scales as first or second mode, and so on. Also, there is a lack of clarity concerning the difference between these kind of modal shifts of a given scale and what a transposition of a scale is. For example, when Rick is discussing Messiaen's Mode One or Whole Tone scale, he gives us the scale starting on C, then says, because Messiaen tells us it has one mode, that the Whole Tone scale starting in C# is that one mode. But that is not another mode, that is a transposition. And in saying the Whole Tone has one mode, Messiaen means that the Whole Tone lacks any additional modal shifts that would change the sequence of intervals. That is, it has NO Other modes. Whole Tone already IS that one mode. Starting on C# is its transposition. The problem, I think starts off from Messiaen's nomenclature, which can twist up any instructor in trying to present them.

Thanks so much for your informative lectures. Especially this one which I play to my class; a certain music examination system defines the modes as only transposing ONCE! Grrrr!!!

I came here out of recommendation from max reger’s symphonic fantasie and fugue and was not disappointed. I’m gonna study these religiously whenever i get the chance. The emotions they provoke are so exact it’s perplexing to me

Excellent, Rick. Thank you.

Mode 2 reminded me of Dutilleux's Sonata for piano (especially the third movement), while mode 6 can be directly found in Ligeti's "Fanfare" for piano (the ostinato all along)

This video just changed my life

Yes! This is something I actually studied a lot, can't wait to hear what you have to say on it!

I like this modified octatonic scale: A B C D Ef F F# G (just one semitone modification from a regular octatonic) It contains: 7 out of 8 notes of the octatonic scale 5 out of 6 notes of the whole tone scale A stack of 5 4ths (or 5ths) 2 minor triads several 7th chords Plus several other interesting, pleasant chords. Flexible and useful. I wrote five very different-sounding compositions using it.

Hey Rick! Awesome video as always. I've been getting into Messiaen a lot lately so it was great to hear such a well-rounded, detailed lesson about his modes of limited transposition. Also, since I know you're a huge Radiohead fan. I was playing with the Octatonic scale quite a bit the other day and I noticed that the guitar riff in the chorus of "Just" is all an octatonic scale. Pretty cool stuff I thought you might enjoy. Anyways, thanks for the epic lesson!

Thank you so much! Great explanation!!

Really interesting lesson. My ears and my mind are finally starting to get diminished harmonies. This class took me several steps further.

Beautiful lesson, excellent guidepost for those interested in these harmonies

Man, thanks a lot, I liked Messiaen's work but I never grasped this perspective to his music. Man, thanks a lot.

As far as condensed knowledge goes, this is just fantastic! I'm sharing this with my bass students and colleagues (I know many who would benefit from a "recall" on many of the covered subjects)! Great job indeed!

A lot of magic on this KZread channel !

thank you! this was an eye opener

This is awesome! Thanks so much!

So Mode 3 looks like an enrichment to the augmented scale, adding an extra flat before landing every minor step, and Mode 7 looks like an enrichment to the diminished scale, splitting every odd full step. Thank you for offering this great content!

Those videos are the best!

You are a music addict . I say that In a good way. We need people like you to push us further . It Is Impressive . You have made music your life.

This is awesome!!

So in my studies Messiaen has been coming up quite a bit, thank you for the break down.

Always greatly useful! :)

thank you thank you thank you i am on a BIG Messiaen trip = loved him so much in school now i am BACK !!!

I like how quickly you got on with it!

I'm actually kind of proud that I discovered these concepts on my own as an autodidact. And now I'm happy that I have a name for it. What a great video!

Thank you for this well made video also for me on the topic of modernity, new music, which I am currently working on through the 'Philosophy of New Music' by Adorno and other works of 'Neue Musik' literature!

Woot! More please!

Thanks Rick! Useful stuff!

Your educational field goes to the infinity

This is great stuff.

Fantastic!

This is a great video.

Awesome! Loved everyone's comments, lots of info for further investigation.

Another famous (in France) composer & Messiaen student, who took over his chair after he died, was Betsy Jolas.

Excellent! Thx

love it thank you

A great modern example of some of these modes is Meshuggah, particularly their later stuff. Most of it uses the 2nd scale here the half whole diminished scale with the root being F. They also use the whole tone, chromatic and scale 3 from this video as well. Their lead guitar player Fredrik Thordendal bases most of his improvised solos for their music off these scales as well!

Came here after Nelson Veras video. Rick is definitely a beast!

you are a really cool dude man...txs for your vids..

Amazing.

Great stuff sir.

super helpful! thanks!!

just .... thank YOU mister.

Great for soundscaping. I suspect Robert Fripp uses these quite a bit.

@bernab

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Actually he used few of these scales cos he was influenced by Stravinsky. And Messiaen's scale was his recopilation of his own taste plus what he heard and read in Stravinsky/Bartok/Debussy/Ravel's music.

Thanks. Mode 3 looks like a whole tone scale with an added 'passing tone' every other tone. Allan Holdsworth said he used it ' to change keys' in a segment from his VHS instructional tape I saw on youtube.

Love all of your videos so far Rick. Particularly excited about this one since I've been messing with some of Messiaen's ideas of late. Mode 5 sounds like canned Morton Feldman, beautiful. I have to ask, what's the piano library you use on your vids?

This is so cool

AWESOME.

great! thanx agin

YOU ARE THE BEST

All of the modes are just symmetrical divisions of the octave. Either copied or mirrored.

the recorded example of the octatonic scale immediately brought to mind Fantasia on a them by Thomas Tallis.

Ha! Thought I was cool for using 2 of these. Wait there's more? (There's always more, and I love that) Thank you Rick

Rick - check out Nelson Veras, a Brazilian jazz guitarist that uses modes 3 & 4 quite a bit. His self-titled release is amazing.

@gabrieltafarel

7 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the tip! I'm brazilian and I didn't know Nelson Veras

@DimebagPantera

4 жыл бұрын

Also flutist Magic Malik, pianist Jozef Dumoulin, sax player Bo van der Werf and some more, all musical partners of Veras!

Kid A, Radiohead's album, was influenced by this composer. Hats off

Rick! Always so esoteric and informative, you are. I am hoping to hear you someday discuss Nicholas Slonimsky's Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns! Any plans for that? Thanks so much for all you've done and all you're doing.

@RickBeato

7 жыл бұрын

I need to find my book again. I was going to do a video pn it but can't find it. I may need to buy another one.

@MarcZiegenhagen

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the reply, Rick. Amazon has 'em for around $21 used and $24 new at the moment.

@MarcZiegenhagen

7 жыл бұрын

Hey Ed - I haven't heard him talk about Zappa except when he interviewed Vai, so I wonder what his thoughts are on FZ's modern classical pieces.

@khbgkh

7 жыл бұрын

Eros Delorenzi you could use a two handed tapping technique, separating the ead and gbe strings between your left and right hands

Mode 7 is beautiful!

Sorry for posting this 2 years later, but I think your explanation at @1:50 could be improved : There is only one mode to the whole tone scale because you cannot do any other combination, it's always going to be a serie of wholetones (in your example, Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db is not a mode of the wholetone scale, but a transposition). I'm no expert though, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks all these brilliant videos Rick !

Fantastic Rick! Could you delve into more topics of Messiaen's book in later videos?

Late response but would be cool to have a part 2 of this one. How to make music with these modes, both from a composition perspective but maybe more while improvising. Great vid cheers.

Without any allusion to Messiaen's concept of the relations between harmony and colour this is just a theoretical exercise. At best, it glimpses from afar at what Messiaen could do with harmony and especially: why he did what he did. A nice foundation this all the same.

Nice, I was watching Allen Holdsworth's explanation of scales and his Scale 10 'symmetrical' seems to be Messiaen's third mode; also covered in Jens Larsen's video on Holdsworth's Sixteen Men of Tain solo.

Dude, this is real rocket science...

@kristofferhjelmaassivertse4736

6 жыл бұрын

rocket science isn´t exactly music theory ;)

@tailleferrestan

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely fascinating? 🤗

The 4th mode😍

Nice Rick. Lots of meat on the musical bone here.

@stevenpalmieri348

6 жыл бұрын

Have you checked out the Elliot Carter Harmony book?

I tried composing with this, but I kept... Messiaen it up. 🤦‍♂️

@LordBrozart

3 жыл бұрын

Ba-dum tss

@macleadg

3 жыл бұрын

@@LordBrozart I’m a dumb Dad. I make dumb Dad jokes. It’s what I do...

14:38 That's a cool sounding suspended chord. I hear that a lot in the early episodes X-Files.

This was peak Rick B content 👌